View Full Version : Pronunciation of manufacturers' names
rigger67
10-03-2018, 13:04
I sold my Rega Jura IIs yesterday to a very nice chap called Will.
We spent nearly two hours listening to and discussing music and I'm happy I got a good price (£130) and they're going to a good home where they'll be appreciated.
Weird thing was, he pronounced Rega "Ray-gah" while I've always said/thought "Ree-gah".
Then on his way out he saw my Grado headphones and said "Oh, nice pair of Gray-dohs" and that bugged me because I'd always thought it was "Grah-doh".
I know it's tempting to just write "Toe-may-toe" "Asparagus" at this point but which is it for those two ? Am I right or is he ?
And are there any other weird ones you've never been sure about ??
Sennheiser = Sen-high-zer is how it should be pronounced if it's Germanic in origin because you say the second of the "i" and the "e" depending on the order (either "ie" or "ei")
NAD = as in gonad, not N.A.D., right ?
KEF = K.E.F. not "Keff", right ?
Aiwa = Aye-wah, right ?
Thorens = Torrenz (like torrent), right ?
Anymore for anymore ?? :scratch:
narabdela
10-03-2018, 13:22
I'm with Will on the Ray-gahs and the Gray-dohs I'm afraid.
hifi_dave
10-03-2018, 13:29
Rega is a combination of the names of the two founders - Relph and Gandy. So, it's whatever you want it to be. I have always said Reega.
Weird thing was, he pronounced Rega "Ray-gah" while I've always said/thought "Ree-gah".
Then on his way out he saw my Grado headphones and said "Oh, nice pair of Gray-dohs" and that bugged me because I'd always thought it was "Grah-doh".
Ok, let's first of all take 'Rega'.. From Wiki: "Rega Research Ltd. is an audio equipment manufacturer based in the UK. Rega was founded in 1973. The company's name was formed of the initials of its two founders (Tony RElph and Roy GAndy)"
Like you, I'd also always thought that is was pronounced as 'Ree-gah', but if based on the above, with the 'I' of the first founder's name also capitalised [which suggests it should be stressed], it would indicate that the name should be pronounced as 'Rye-gah', which doesn't sound right, but there you go!
*But* is Tony's surname pronounced as 'Rye-ff' or 'Ree-ff'? If it's the latter, then 'Ree-gah' is correct.
However, 'Ree-gah' is still more correct than 'Ray-gah', simply because there is no 'a' in 'Reiph'.
In terms of 'Grado'... From Wiki: "Grado Labs was founded in 1953, by master watchmaker Joseph Grado.". Now as it's an American company, and American's would almost certainly pronounce 'Grado', as 'Gray-doh', I'd suggest that's how it should be said.
Now this:
Sennheiser = Sen-high-zer is how it should be pronounced if it's Germanic in origin because you say the second of the "i" and the "e" depending on the order (either "ie" or "ei")
See here:
aXKcw8L3oL0
There appears to be a slight silent 'T' at the beginning, followed by 'sen-high-zer'.
Lastly:
NAD = as in gonad, not N.A.D., right ?
KEF = K.E.F. not "Keff", right ?
Aiwa = Aye-wah, right ?
Thorens = Torrenz (like torrent), right ?
I'd say:
'Nah-d'
'Keff'
'Aye-wah' (although one would have to understand Japanese properly to be sure).
As for 'Thorens', have a go yourself, lol:
1yDmzPyJy8g
Not sure what (if any) the Swiss influence would have...
Marco.
jandl100
10-03-2018, 13:59
It's eye-wer for me :)
Where does the 'r' in "Aiwa' come from, daftee? :scratch:
This may provide a clue:
6q23ZPE1pMM
Marco.
jandl100
10-03-2018, 14:07
Well, the r isn't sounded, it's just that I can't think of how else to spell it phonetically.
Maybe like the god name, yahweh. eye-weh.
Is that any better?
Or 'were' without the r being sounded.
Rega is a combination of the names of the two founders - Relph and Gandy. So, it's whatever you want it to be. I have always said Reega.
Hang on, Dave... Is Tony's name definitely 'Relph'? In Wiki it looks more like 'Reiph', as if it was 'Relph', then the three first letters would've been capitalised thus: 'RELph', not' REIph'..
If it is 'Relph', then 'Rega' should be pronounced as 'Reh(h)-gah', which is different from 'Ray-gah' or "Ree-gah'.
Marco.
Well, the r isn't sounded, it's just that I can't think of how else to spell it phonetically.
Maybe like the god name, yahweh. eye-weh.
Is that any better?
Or 'were' without the r being sounded.
I sort of see where you're coming from, but it's a difficult one. Listening to the video, it's hard to hear any silent 'r'.
Marco.
wee tee cee
10-03-2018, 14:33
What about Schitt?
Is that SKIT then?
Nope, I speak a little German (and my wife is half-German), and it's defo pronounced as 'Shit'.
Marco.
hifi_dave
10-03-2018, 14:40
Hang on, Dave... Is Tony's name definitely 'Relph'? In Wiki it looks more like 'Reiph', as if it was 'Relph', then the three first letters would've been capitalised thus: 'RELph', not' REIph'..
If it is 'Relph', then 'Rega' should be pronounced as 'Reh(h)-gah', which is different from 'Ray-gah' or "Ree-gah'.
Marco.
I knew him as Tony Relph. He left the company around 37 years ago and it is now still owned and managed by Roy. He takes more of a back seat now but still has his hand in.
Back in the day when I spoke with Roy a couple of times/week, he pronounced it "Reega" and this is what everyone I have worked with at Rega say.
Fair enough, although technically, if using 'Relph' as the phonetic guide, it should be pronounced a little differently, more like 'Reh(h)-gah'.
'Ray-gah' is definitely NOT right, though! :nono:
Marco.
jandl100
10-03-2018, 14:47
Nope, I speak a little German (and my wife is half-German), and it's defo pronounced as 'Shit'.
Marco.
yep.
from their website ....
Yes, that is our name. Shih-tah. It's a proud German name, host to a long line of audio engineers who slaved away in crumbling Teutonic fortresses as lightning lashed the dark lands outside, working to perfect the best amplification devices in the world...
Or, well, no. Yep, Schiit is our name, and it's pronounced, well, like "hey man, that's some really good Schiit!" And now that we have your attention...
I'm away for a shih-tah:eyebrows:
wee tee cee
10-03-2018, 14:54
Auch shite!!!....thought i was getting the hang of this pish.
Hope Grant nips it and get back on the forum fast!
Lol... Yes, there are some other 'interesting' little words in German, such as 'Fahrt', which means journey (travelling somewhere).
So, you could ask your German friend, who's just flown over to see you, 'Fahrt gut?' (Did you have a good journey?), to which, if they wished to be jovial and understood English might reply: 'Yes, I left a stinky one on the plane' Or: 'Yes, I feel 2 stone lighter, and may have followed through':D:eyebrows:
Combining 'Fahrt' and 'Schiitt' could provide further giggles.....
Marco.
wee tee cee
10-03-2018, 15:10
The Joe Rogan podcast with Joey Diaz and Tom Segura cover jobbie jokes rather succinctly.
Marco, just don't get too excited if you go to Denmark and someone offers you a fartplan
LOL... Thinking on it, Schiitt should've invented some headphones called 'Fahrts', which could've been combined with a Schiitt amp, to take you on a 'journey of sound' such as you've never before experienced....
Marco.
wee tee cee
10-03-2018, 15:37
That could result in a filthy mind....
Which, with you and I being the shy introverted type, would be unthinkable.
Marco.
Mike Reed
10-03-2018, 17:08
True story; an English escapee from Kolditz was approaching the outer perimeter when he was accosted by a guard with a rifle pointed menacingly at him, shouting 'hande hoch!' The English airman threw his hands in the air and screamed 'Nick scheissen posten; Luckily the guard had a sense of humour, the story has it.
An 'electrifying' man whom Marco and I both know, always called his Troika 'Troeeka', even when my friend and I were discussing this cartridge with him.
Koetsu is frequently misspelt (Keotsu, e.g.). This is a novel thread topic, but could just as interestingly be applied to cars. Lancia ('LANCHEA or LANCE-ea?), PORSH or PORSHA? ALFA ROMAYO or ALFA ROMIO ? That one survived, although Juliet's boyfriend's name didn't.
It's a linguistic minefield out there.
Floyddroid
10-03-2018, 17:23
Rega is a combination of the names of the two founders - Relph and Gandy. So, it's whatever you want it to be. I have always said Reega.
Me too Dave.
rigger67
10-03-2018, 17:35
Good job Mitsubishi don't make hifi, eh ?? :eyebrows:
walpurgis
10-03-2018, 17:40
Good job Mitsubishi don't make hifi, eh ?? :eyebrows:
Was that serious?
http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/files/bloguploads/dirty-business-vag-plaza.jpg
and
http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/files/bloguploads/dirty-business-fart.jpg
finally
http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/files/bloguploads/dirty-business-ass-hair.jpg
no problems pronouncing those;)
jandl100
10-03-2018, 18:27
LOL... Thinking on it, Schiitt should've invented some headphones called 'Fahrts', which could've been combined with a Schiitt amp, to take you on a 'journey of sound' such as you've never before experienced....
Marco.
Well, there's Wyrd Schiit
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.digitalaudioreview.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F06%2Fschiit_wyrd.png&f=1
and Fulla Schiit
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fschiit.com%2Fpublic%2Fupload%2Fima ges%2Fimagecache_thumbnail_product_gallery_large%2 FFulla-main-1000.jpg&f=1
I heard 'Von Gaylord' is pronounced 'Von Straightlord', instantly eliminating any naming controversy.
rigger67
10-03-2018, 18:44
Was that serious?
... er, yeah :scratch:
Why ??
Do they ?
Matsushita I know is Pioneer/Technics, right ?
But Mitsubishi ??
Incidentally - off on a tangent - the Mitsubishi pen company, brand name Uniball, is nothing to do with the car manufacturer - it's just a common name.
walpurgis
10-03-2018, 18:47
Have some Mitsubishi!
http://i65.tinypic.com/2d9tszl.png
Stratmangler
10-03-2018, 18:55
Matsushita I know is Pioneer/Technics, right ?
Try Panasonic/Technics.
Pioneer Corporation is Pioneer.
jandl100
10-03-2018, 19:18
Have some more Mitsubishi
http://www.good-old-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/mitsubishi-da_m10-_8-26639_wiesmoor.jpg
http://pcbonto.hu/portal/static/upload_apro/2009-10-03/543041_orig0.jpg
http://www.good-old-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/mitsubishi-da_a15dc-_5-26639_wiesmoor.jpg
paulf-2007
10-03-2018, 19:25
I'm with Will on the Ray-gahs and the Gray-dohs I'm afraid.
That's it then, I'm either going to sell my headphones or never say what they are to anyone ever. Gray- doh indeed. Sounds ....oh can't say that any more in this nanny state.
rigger67
10-03-2018, 20:16
https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/37066111/what-have-i-started-ive-created-a-monster.jpg
Mike Reed
10-03-2018, 22:19
Have some more Mitsubishi
http://www.good-old-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/mitsubishi-da_m10-_8-26639_wiesmoor.jpg
http://pcbonto.hu/portal/static/upload_apro/2009-10-03/543041_orig0.jpg
http://www.good-old-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/mitsubishi-da_a15dc-_5-26639_wiesmoor.jpg
Some serious (and interesting) stuff there. Who'd've known it?
Some say that 'Technics' should be pronounced 'Techniques'.
The first time I heard someone pronounce it like that I thought there was something wrong with them. But reading up on it and it turns out they might be right. I'm not going to start doing it anytime soon but it takes all sorts to make a world.
I have always pronounced Ikea as Icky a - much to the annoyance of my wife and daughters who say it should be I kea, I used to get lots of flack for being deliberately awkward.
I was very pleased when there was a TV advert for he company where it was pronounced the same way as I say it :)
jandl100
11-03-2018, 07:18
someone told me it should be leedle not liddle
rigger67
11-03-2018, 08:13
someone told me it should be leedle not liddle
Yeah, as in Scarface :guns:
Primalsea
11-03-2018, 08:21
I still manage to swap the pronunciation of Aldi and Audi pretty much every time I say one of them. Just cannot seem to get it right first time.
jandl100
11-03-2018, 08:47
It should be woll woe not voll voe
Minstrel SE
11-03-2018, 08:51
Yes Ive always said Ray ga and always will even though Im sure Ive heard the manufacturers themselves say Ree ga. its not Rega as in the beginning of reggae as that would sound poor.
Even if I was corrected I would still say it just afterwards. A couple of people call me Mark (not even Mart) even though Ive corrected them so I leave it :)
Ray ga phonetically sound more classy as its a bit of a daft name and Ree ga doesnt trip of the tongue as easily.
rigger67
11-03-2018, 09:36
I had a Spanish girlfriend a couple of years ago.
I say Spanish, but she's Catalan, from Barcelona.
Her brother is a season ticket holder but she doesn't care for football at all.
One Saturday night I'd cooked us a meal and we watched a movie and when it finished and "normal" TV came on, Match Of The Day was just starting. I grinned at her and she just smiled and said "Rub my feet and you can watch it".
Happy to oblige I did so and she was half purring, half nodding off as the show got going ...
I think it was Watford manager Quique Flores who made her sit up.
Not only is he very handsome, but his voice is rather alluring apparently, especially if you're a Spanish woman (or so I'm told ;) ).
Casually, I repeated the words "Berry, berry !!" after he said that his side had played "Very, very well !!" because he had that peculiar pronunciation of certain Spanish regions where the V becomes a B when speaking English.
She got quite into the program then as the next match featured, I think, Pochettino while he was still at Saints and he did the exact same thing, saying "Berry, berry !!" on a couple of occasions. I was cracked up by this point and she was punching me on the arm for taking the piss.
It happened again last night when I caught a bit of the show.
I can't remember who it was, maybe Pellegrino the current Southampton manager, but I had a Lidl chuckle to myself anyway ..
someone told me it should be leedle not liddle
And they'd be right. That's how it's said in Germany:)
Marco.
Yeah, as in Scarface :guns:
Sorry, don't get that :scratch:
Marco.
mightymonoped
11-03-2018, 09:43
I'm wondering if it's PED-ANTRY or PEDANT-REE? [emoji13]
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
A couple of people call me Mark (not even Mart) even though Ive corrected them so I leave it :)
Lol - are they deaf or stupid, or both? It's a totally different name!
Marco.
People often used to pronounce:
Technics as Techniques
Arcam as Acram
Denon as Dee-non
Has this cassette deck got double Dobly?
Cyrus as Cyprus
Naim as Nay-eye-mm
Aiwa as Awiwa
QED as Qwed
I presume they're now safely locked up in an appropriate institution?;)
Marco.
'Leak' as 'Lee-ack'. Heard that a few times. And 'Sony' pronounced as 'Son-ee'
All the misprononuciaters I encountered lived in Manchester - perhaps they still do (though I do not).
Devialet has been a recent fun one.
Oh, nearly forgot B&W as BMW and I encountered a couple of people who thought the ‘black ash’ was an actual species of tree.
walpurgis
11-03-2018, 10:21
misprononuciaters
Ah. That must be one for we mispronouncers. :)
All the misprononuciaters I encountered lived in Manchester - perhaps they still do (though I do not).
Devialet has been a recent fun one.
Do you know how that's actually pronounced, then? Have a go at it phonetically :)
Marco.
rigger67
11-03-2018, 10:26
Sorry, don't get that :scratch:
Marco.
"SAY HELLO TO MY LEEEEEEEEDL FRIEND !"
:eyebrows:
rigger67
11-03-2018, 10:34
My step-dad always used to buy Sony.
He'd been in the merchant navy and worked in Kuwait for 8 years and travelled the world before settling down and had a portable Sony reel-to-reel that he gave to me when I was about 10 with stereo speakers on top that made it into a kind of suitcase device. It was so cool. It had a mic hidden in a compartment and I used it a lot, just for mucking about, really.
He passed away in 2008 and weirdly his last TV - a really heavy 32" Sony flat-screen that I'd been using as a monitor for my desktop - just died on me last week. He'd had it a while so I reckon it must've been at least fifteen, almost twenty years old. Great unit.
Anyway .. rambling aside, he ALWAYS pronounced the company name "Sonn-Ee", with the first part rhyming with "Don" and the second like the "y" in "Happy".
Mind you, he also pronounced concrete "Kon-Krate" .. I never did ask him why, I was usually laughing too much.
"SAY HELLO TO MY LEEEEEEEEDL FRIEND !"
:eyebrows:
Ah yes, I see, lol... I'm not one for remembering lines in films, unless they're truly iconic, such as 'Make my day, punk', in Dirty Harry :eyebrows:
Marco.
Mike Reed
11-03-2018, 10:47
I'm wondering if it's PED-ANTRY or PEDANT-REE? [emoji13]
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The stress is on the first syllable. In 'pedantic', it's on the second.
Mike Reed
11-03-2018, 10:53
All the...... misprononuciaters.... I encountered
Devialet has been a recent fun one.
Blimey ! That's a new one !:lol: (mispronouncers?) DEVIALET is a good one. Is it French, as it sounds it? If so, it's 'DEV ee o lay', surely.
Do you know how that's actually pronounced, then? Have a go at it phonetically :)
Marco.
Well the rep pronounced it Dee-v-alay, or De-valiaye (which is the one I would go for).
Mike Reed
11-03-2018, 11:01
Anyway .. rambling aside, he ALWAYS pronounced the company name "Sonn-Ee", with the first part rhyming with "Don" and the second like the "y" in "Happy".
Of course. Can't see how it could be pronounced any other way in any other language. It's a British prerogative to bugger up pronunciations. The 'o' is short, and I'd imagine that only in English can it be pronounced as the long 'o', as in 'oh' (dear). German comes close with the umlaut, but only close.:)
Blimey ! That's a new one !:lol: (mispronouncers?) DEVIALET is a good one. Is it French, as it sounds it? If so, it's 'DEV ee o lay', surely.
Yes, I think your phonetic spelling is better but a instead of o - so ‘Dev ee a lay’
. It's a British prerogative to bugger up pronunciations.
Absolutely.
mightymonoped
11-03-2018, 11:43
The stress is on the first syllable. In 'pedantic', it's on the second.
[emoji849]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
rigger67
11-03-2018, 11:45
Blimey ! That's a new one !:lol: (mispronouncers?) DEVIALET is a good one. Is it French, as it sounds it? If so, it's 'DEV ee o lay', surely.
Where d'you get the "o" sound from ??
If it's French, it would be "Dev-ee-ah-lay".
I've never said it out loud but always read it in my mind as a very Anglo "Dee-vee-ah-let" :D
Shall we ask Paul Merson's opinion ?
Or David Pleat ??
He was always great at mangling footballer's names :)
Well the rep pronounced it Dee-v-alay, or De-valiaye (which is the one I would go for).
Ok, let's look at the name concerned: 'Devialet'.
'De', in French, would be pronounced as 'Deh', 'via' would be pronounced as 'vyah', and 'let' would be pronounced as 'lay', thus combined phonetically would be: 'Deh-vyah-lay'.
In normal use, it certainly wouldn't be a 'Dee' sound at the beginning, so I suspect you misheard the rep (or wrongly remember how they pronounced it) :)
Marco.
. It's a British prerogative to bugger up pronunciations.
Lol... It's also a British "prerogative" not to be arsed learning a foreign language!;) Lazy Brits :spank:
How many here are fluent in any language other than English (or bullshit)? :D
Marco [Fluent in two, spoken and written, and capable conversationally in another, not including Glaswegian].
when i was in germany, i was told english is the international language and anyone who doesnt speak it isnt worth talking to.... by a german by way:D
The rep wasn’t French.
This thread seems to have morphed into a somewhat pedantic discussion of phonetic spelling rather than pronouciation. By definition, phonetic spelling is very dependant on the accent (or mother tongue) of the speaker.
The rep wasn’t French.
Ah, that explains it!:D
Phonetics aside, quite simply, there's only ONE correct way of pronouncing the word concerned. I'd suggest it'd good to know what's right. Actually, thinking about it further, it could also be a 'De' sound at the beginning, in the same way as the 'de' would be pronounced in de rigueur.
Hey Mark, some folks 'get off' on graphs and measurements, others are fascinated by linguistics. It certainly makes a change on an audio forum to see evidence of the latter!;)
Marco [language is his 'thing' - feck yer graphs].
rigger67
11-03-2018, 12:30
One of my favourite ever "Clips of the Week" moments from the fantastic Hawksbee and Jacobs Show on talkSPORT is Mick Quinn's attempt to pronounce faux pas :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
(2m 45s in if the link doesn't open properly)
https://youtu.be/SK_fMMy67Q0?t=2m45s
when i was in germany, i was told english is the international language and anyone who doesnt speak it isnt worth talking to.... by a german by way:D
Lol yeah, but only because that's the 'fashionable' way to think!;)
Marco.
was nearly 30 years ago, ive just calculated :doh: hell, it seems like last year:( Hamburg was a great place.
Some rather insular thinking going on back then.... Think of how many Germans you'd hear speaking English to each other, in your average German town, certainly out in the sticks;)
English would be hee-haw used to you there!
Marco.
Mike Reed
11-03-2018, 13:13
Where d'you get the "o" sound from ??
If it's French, it would be "Dev-ee-ah-lay".
I've never said it out loud but always read it in my mind as a very Anglo "Dee-vee-ah-let" :D
Agreed; it's actually a schwa (a phonetic 'non'sound near to 'er' but not stressed) rather than 'o'. There is a symbol for it, but it wouldn't be on the keyboard. Ooh ah !
A popular German politician says too many people are speaking English in everyday life in the country.
Jens Spahn, who some people think could replace current Chancellor Angela Merkel, is the junior finance minister.
"It drives me up the wall the way waiters in Berlin restaurants only speak English," he told a German newspaper.
He says Germans are too relaxed on the issue and that it would never happen in Paris.
Mr Spahn thinks "co-existence can only work in Germany if we all speak German" and wants all immigrants to learn the language.
its taught at primary school as first foreign language, but yes out in sticks it wont be used much i guess.
'Leak' as 'Lee-ack'. Heard that a few times. And 'Sony' pronounced as 'Son-ee'
Never heard Leak pronounced in any way other than "leak" as in 'water leak'.
As for Sony:
Sony
Sony Corporation (ソニー株式会社 Sonī Kabushiki Gaisha), commonly referred to as Sony, is a Japanese multinational conglomerate corporation headquartered in Tokyo, Japan. Sony Electronics manufacture, inter alia, audio electronics, and Sony Music Entertainment are a recording label. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony
Its founders, Akito Morita and Masaru Ibuka, derived the name from sonus, the Latin for “sound”, and also from the English slang-word "sonny", since they considered themselves to be "sonny boys", a loan word into Japanese which in the early 1950s connoted smart and presentable young men.
So "Son-ee", rather than "So-knee".
Talking of mis-pronounciations, I have a friend who always refers to Naim as "Nam", and SME as "Smee". Mind you, I alway pronounce KEF as "Kef" and not as the individual letters.
Mike Reed
11-03-2018, 13:19
Ah, that explains it!:D
Hey Mark, some folks 'get off' on graphs and measurements, others are fascinated by linguistics. It certainly makes a change on an audio forum to see evidence of the latter!;)
Marco [language is his 'thing' - feck yer graphs].
Just don't get me started or we'll be here all day ! It's my only claim to fame and milking it is an uncommon opportunity.:lol:
Mike Reed
11-03-2018, 13:25
.
For Glaswegian you'd need to be fluid rather than fluent, I would've thought.
Sherwood
11-03-2018, 13:37
I knew a guy who insisted on referring to his Sansui gear as Zanussi :scratch:
"It drives me up the wall the way waiters in Berlin restaurants only speak English," he told a German newspaper.
He says Germans are too relaxed on the issue and that it would never happen in Paris.
Indeed not. Try speaking English to most waiters there, and you'll simply be ignored - and quite rightly, too!
Furthermore, out with of the major cities In France, English will be of virtually no use to you, if trying to be understood properly - and that applies even more so in Italy!!
I'd make the teaching of at least one foreign language compulsory in UK schools, from the age of 8 or 9, which is when I started learning French. There's too much arrogance surrounding the notion of 'I speak English, therefore *expect* to be understood anywhere in the world':rolleyes:
It also promotes lazy thinking!
Marco.
Beobloke
11-03-2018, 13:45
When it comes to pronouncing hi-fi manufacturers, I always like to throw in the former Irish loudspeaker manufacturer O’heocha.
Best of luck, everyone... [emoji6]
rigger67
11-03-2018, 14:03
Indeed not. Try speaking English to most waiters there, and you'll simply be ignored - and quite rightly, too!
Furthermore, out with of the major cities, English will be of virtually no use to you, if trying to be understood properly - and that applies even more so in Italy!!
I'd make the teaching of at least one foreign language compulsory in UK schools, from the age of 8 or nine, which is when I started learning French. There's too much arrogance surrounding the notion of 'I speak English, therefore *expect* to be understood anywhere in the world'.
It also promotes lazy thinking!
Marco.
It should be German, not the more mandatory French.
I took French for over ten years, had French maternal grandparents and was with a French woman for nine years and my German's way better and I only did the two years prior to my O-level.
It's just so much easier because the root languages are the same.
Once you know that the hard "K" sound is the soft "ch", the "D" in English is a "T" in German, an "F" a "V", and all the other quirks of the language - like the fact there's only about 250 irregular verbs - it becomes simple to learn, well-structured in nature and a language where you can take a guess at a word you're not familiar with and have a good chance at getting it right.
I knew a guy who insisted on referring to his Sansui gear as Zanussi :scratch:
Did you give him a slap for his stupidity?
Marco.
Minstrel SE
11-03-2018, 15:39
"ich freue mich sehr sie kennenzulernen" is all I can remember from my German O level. I wonder how far that will get me.
The German distributors are amazing with english pages on their sites or I will sometimes use google translate which is very cheeky really. Ive had perfect English back from them which is quite a gesture from them
We are very lucky that english has been adopted as an important language and generally very lazy about speaking other.
languages. The best way to learn a language is plonk yourself in France for a while like my Mum did
Back on topic I wonder If New Acoustic Dimension like me referring to nad amps :)
Sherwood
11-03-2018, 15:52
Did you give him a slap for his stupidity?
Marco.
I assumed dyslexia!
knew someone who insisted he watch a war film called the battle of the bugle:doh:
Mike Reed
11-03-2018, 16:06
We are very lucky that English has been adopted as an important language and generally we are very lazy about speaking other
languages. The best way to learn a language is plonk yourself in France for a while like my Mum did
English is now THE global language of choice and has been for some time. Understandable when you consider the global reach of the old British Empire. Not sure whether Spanish, French or Mandarin would come second (relative to per capita speakers)
A wee bit pointless to .plonk yourself' in France if you want to learn German, Italian, Spanish, Russian etcetera ad nauseam, but certainly it's a change of scenery.:lol:
Mike Reed
11-03-2018, 16:10
knew someone who insisted he watch a war film called the battle of the bugle:doh:
Guess he was just brassed off. That's dyslexia again, methinks.
rigger67
11-03-2018, 16:18
Maybe he was just horny ?
lol... he was a piece of work:D
legb4rsk
11-03-2018, 18:38
You should worry! I have a Roksan Ekserrecksess.
Floyddroid
11-03-2018, 19:01
Billy Joel???
Jole or Jo el?
It should be German, not the more mandatory French.
Yeah, I agree, but I'd have both, which would give kids an excellent grounding in foreign language speaking from an early age. Trouble is, it's hard enough trying to teach them English(!) as our society grows more and more towards communicating using 'textspeak', via mobile phones, and loses its skills in formal written communication.
Like you say, once you learn to speak one foreign language well, together with its grammatical discipline, it makes learning more much easier. Plus with some there are considerable similarities in many of the words used, especially between the likes of Spanish and Italian. I can understand much of spoken or written Spanish, simply because I'm fluent in Italian.
Languages just fascinate me, and if I'd had more time when I was younger (one absorbs these things better when younger), I'd have learned lots more. It's amazing how much friendlier and helpful people are towards you abroad when you can speak their mother tongue - even just a few words! :cool:
Marco.
For Glaswegian you'd need to be fluid rather than fluent, I would've thought.
Indeed; the vernacular can be somewhat 'challenging', certainly for anyone not brought up there.
Marco.
eisenach
11-03-2018, 20:52
As a German speaker, I always want to pronounce the swedish brand Primare as pree-mar-eh, but apparently it's pree-mair. Can't cope !
Mike Reed
11-03-2018, 22:37
That's weird ! 'Are' in Swedish pronounced as in English? I do find that hard to believe unless the company has deliberately anglicised the name. Not that I know a jot of Swedish, however. The nearest I've been to Sweden is my lovely girlfriend from Malmo in mid sixties' 'Appy 'Ampstead, and we didn't have an awful lot of time for languages, as I recall.
Shovel_Knight
11-03-2018, 22:48
I generally dislike languages where things are pronounced not as they’re written, that’s why speaking English gives me terrible headaches every day, and don’t even get me started on French :D
That said, I recently started taking Japanese lessons, and holy mother of God: in Japanese, kanji (Chinese glyphs) can have multiple readings: an approximation of their original Chinese reading (or several, if the character happens to have multiple readings in Chinese), several native (Japanese) readings, and also a special reading when used for names of persons or locations :rolleyes:
When it comes to pronouncing hi-fi manufacturers, I always like to throw in the former Irish loudspeaker manufacturer O’hEocha.
Best of luck, everyone... [emoji6]
"O'Aich e oak ah"
Shovel_Knight
11-03-2018, 23:31
"O'Aich e oak ah"
More like “oach oak ah”, the “ch” in “oach” should pronounced more like “h” in “home”
jandl100
12-03-2018, 06:15
I'm a stereotypical Brit - useless at foreign languages.
I scraped through my French O level by memorising several essays and slightly adapting the nearest to the range of titles offered in the exam. Not strictly cheating, but close!
I got slung out of my German O level class for being embarassingly incompetent.
My brain just isn't wired up that way.
I was good at maths and science.
I'My brain just isn't wired up that way.
I was good at maths and science.
I was exactly the same with maths and science, in terms of my brain not being wired up that way. I got by ok, but excelled much more at languages. It's the classic left-side versus the right side of the brain thing:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/0M1k4m.jpg
I have, by far and away, more right-brain traits. The key omission being left-hand control, as my left hand is virtually an ornament.
However, I know in that respect, I'll be in the minority on forums! I also believe it's the main reason why diehard subjectivists and objectivists clash so often on hi-fi matters... Given the stated traits of LB and RB, on the above image, can you see why that might be?;)
Oh, and I couldn't be further away either from being a "stereotypical Brit". Nothing wrong with being British (far from it), but I don't really feel it. I consider myself primarily Italian, born in Scotland, and so those are the two countries (and cultures) that form my identity.
Marco.
jandl100
12-03-2018, 07:47
Interesting that music awareness is down as a right brain thing.
I guess that's why I've always been attracted to classical music (and why I hate free form jazz) - there's a rule-based structure that my left brain latches on to.
Ah, you just can't beat the strictly formal, interweaving complexities of a great Bach fugue. :D --my favourite piece of music is Bach's Passacaglia & Fugue BWV582.
Lol, how are you at the likes of Creativity, Intuition and Holistic thought? Those IMO, are (or should be) core traits of the subjectivist mindset, of which you are one, no?;)
Here's an interesting link to Cognitive Styles, where Analytic vs. Holistic thinking is discussed: http://www.intropsych.com/ch07_cognition/analytic_vs_holistic_thinking.html
If there's one area of science that fascinates me, it's human psychology!
Marco.
jandl100
12-03-2018, 08:07
Lol, how are you at the likes of Creativity, Intuition and Holistic thought? Those IMO, are (or should be) core traits of the subjectivist mindset, of which you are one, no?;)
Mmm, not so hot, actually.
I was a very good "middle manager" in my day, I needed someone with a creative mindset to set out the Vision, which I then implemented.
Re: subjectivity in audio.
My analytical, objective mind has learned from experience that it is subjective results that matter when it comes to music reproduction.
My analytical, objective mind has learned from experience that it is subjective results that matter when it comes to music reproduction.
Excellent, could you pass your words of wisdom onto folk like Serge?:D
Marco.
jandl100
12-03-2018, 08:24
Excellent, could you pass your words of wisdom onto folk like Serge?:D
Marco.
I doubt I could manage that.
Putting (analytical, of course!) figures on it, I guess I am something like 75/25 left/right balance, whereas the objective fundamentalist types I'd imagine are way less than 25% righties.
No hope, I'm afraid.
Mike Reed
12-03-2018, 08:27
Re: subjectivity in audio.
My analytical, objective mind has learned from experience that it is subjective results that matter when it comes to music reproduction.
Couldn't agree more. Think my brain falls somewhere in the middle; the dead zone between the L and R. Interesting schematic, b.t.w., Marco. If music awareness had been included on the right, I'd be almost home and dried. I was previously a bit confused, but now I'm not so sure.
not much of my brain left, but i have a few from each side i guess. does that make me a more rounded person, or an idiot? answers on a postcard
walpurgis
12-03-2018, 08:52
I was a very good "middle manager" in my day, I needed someone with a creative mindset to set out the Vision, which I then implemented.
Opposite here really. I 'managed' OK and controlled sixty odd staff at times, but much preferred organising engineering projects on my own. Bit of a control freak I suppose, I always think only I can do the best job and like to be in charge of every aspect from start to finish. Good job I'm retired.
jandl100
12-03-2018, 08:59
I was a good delegator.
I once was given a bottle of whisky at the end of a high profile project by the guy who was leading it for me.
"What the hell is that for?" I asked him.
"For keeping out of my way!" he replied. :lol:
rigger67
12-03-2018, 09:00
Nothing wrong with being British (far from it), but I don't really feel it. I consider myself primarily Italian, born in Scotland, and so those are the two countries (and cultures) that form my identity.
I love that line about feeling it and know exactly what you mean.
To me there is no such thing as being British, unless the viewpoint is from someone foreign, in the same way we might say "They're Spanish" when talking about a Catalan, a Basque and a Madridista.
As for me, I'm English first, European second, French third and .. that's it. I don't call myself British ever.
rigger67
12-03-2018, 09:01
I was a good delegator.
I once was given a bottle of whisky at the end of a high profile project by the guy who was leading it for me.
"What the hell is that for?" I asked him.
"For keeping out of my way!" he replied. :lol:
Took me a while to learn the art of delegation.
It's not just about trust, there's more to it than that, but I think the only way you can work it out is through the wisdom of experience.
After twenty years as a manager I finally cracked it and did sod all for three years in my last full-time role :)
walpurgis
12-03-2018, 09:03
As for me, I'm English first, European second, French third and .. that's it. I don't call myself British ever.
I'm still waiting for that English passport, to which I should be entitled!!
To me people are not necessarily at either extreme of left/right domination, and I think that we can all, with patience and awareness, feel ourselves alternating between different modes.
I agree, Dennis, but basically, just like many other human traits or skills, some of us have (were born with) more of them than others, and some of which are listed in the illustrated graphic :)
Marco.
I'm still waiting for that English passport, to which I should be entitled!!
Never say never...
More like “oach oak ah”, the “ch” in “oach” should pronounced more like “h” in “home”
I just followed this (and ignored the 'Colm'): http://www.pronouncekiwi.com/Colm%20O%20hEocha
Mike Reed
12-03-2018, 22:04
As for me, I'm English first, European second, French third and .. that's it. I don't call myself British ever.
Far too broad a canvas. I'm a Kentish man ! Only just, mind, as the nursing home where I was born is only yards from the western bank of the Medway. (Eastern side = Man of Kent).
montesquieu
12-03-2018, 23:57
Oh, and I couldn't be further away either from being a "stereotypical Brit". Nothing wrong with being British (far from it), but I don't really feel it. I consider myself primarily Italian, born in Scotland, and so those are the two countries (and cultures) that form my identity.
Marco.
Interesting, I'm a Scot of Irish extraction (fourth generation, both sets of parents third generation, so pretty Scottish really and I was always puzzled to be marched into the church every March 17 and made to sing 'Hail glorious Saint Patrick dear saint of our isle - though arguably he was from Dumbarton, I found out years later).
But it wasn't till I lived first of all in New Zealand then in England that I realised just how British I actually was. There's far less difference between Scots and English as a rule than some shit stirrers like to pretend (in fact it's pretty much the whole basis of the SNP's shitck as far as I can see - see, see, how different we are, wha's like us etc etc etc) I have very little patience for all that.
Oh and it's Ray-ga.
I was always British first but Ive been a bit disillusioned with that since lol. Still better British than most
jandl100
13-03-2018, 06:48
I've always regarded myself as British, English and a Southerner in that order.
But it wasn't until I retired to Spain that I fully appreciated my Britishness.
The Plan had been to stay there, in that clement climate surrounded by mountains and beautiful vistas.
I was home in Britain again within 2 years. We both got homesick for dear old Blighty. Not what I had expected at all.
Britain's a great country to live in, on various levels, even with the 'crap' weather, as unlike in other countries, we're not exposed to earthquakes, tornados or volcanic eruptions, so whilst the weather can be bad, it's generally safe! It can be cold and wet sometimes, but overall, I like the healthy (and largely consistent) UK climate.
Overall, Britain is also a reasonably affluent country, where a good standard of living is possible, it has a good mix of cultures, and many parts are extremely beautiful. No country is perfect, so as much as we love holidaying abroad and various things European/foreign, at the moment we're happy to settle in the UK, just as long as it's well away from overcrowded, overpriced London and the south!
As I said recently in another thread, we'll either stay where we are in North Wales, or perhaps move over to the west, near Aberystwyth, as the scenery out there is stunning, we just love the 'land that time forgot' nature of it all (and Wales in general), and it's well away from the hustle and bustle and inhuman existence, perpetrated by the 'rat race'!! :cool:
Marco [Italian first, Scottish second, and 'Welsh' as a result of my adopted country].
I've always regarded myself as British, English and a Southerner in that order.
But it wasn't until I retired to Spain that I fully appreciated my Britishness.
The Plan had been to stay there, in that clement climate surrounded by mountains and beautiful vistas.
I was home in Britain again within 2 years. We both got homesick for dear old Blighty. Not what I had expected at all.
Not surprised Jerry, Spain is ok to visit, but to live there I am not sure. My mum lived there for 10 years but only enjoyed 6 months of the year. The rest was either too hot or too cold in the winter.
But it wasn't till I lived first of all in New Zealand then in England that I realised just how British I actually was. There's far less difference between Scots and English as a rule than some shit stirrers like to pretend (in fact it's pretty much the whole basis of the SNP's shitck as far as I can see - see, see, how different we are, wha's like us etc etc etc) I have very little patience for all that.
.
In WW2 men of the Home Nations all served together, jumbled up, and consequently developed a respect for each other which had not previously existed in a time where it was unusual for a man to travel more than 20 miles from his birthplace. It's a shame that all seems to have been forgotten.
I love that line about feeling it and know exactly what you mean.
To me there is no such thing as being British, unless the viewpoint is from someone foreign, in the same way we might say "They're Spanish" when talking about a Catalan, a Basque and a Madridista.
As for me, I'm English first, European second, French third and .. that's it. I don't call myself British ever.
Me neither; we seem to be on the same page here.
Like I said, I love living in the UK, but I'll never feel British, simply because it doesn't reflect my culture. I feel much more 'European', and indeed that's how I live my life, and my wife is the same. Although she was born in Wales, and is proud of her Welsh roots, she's heavily influenced by her German/Croatian heritage, which she got from her dad.
Marco.
It's a shame that all seems to have been forgotten.
Indeed, but the ever-increasing financial north/south divide in the UK (and thus to an extent Scottish/English), created by successive governments since then, certainly hasn't helped engender a sense of unity.
Marco.
Indeed, but the ever-increasing north/south divide (and thus Scottish/English), created by successive governments since then, certainly hasn't helped engender a sense of unity.
Marco.
Well, you know I think that is mostly a fantasy that nevertheless has some appeal to nationalistic Scots; but we arn't ever going to agree on that.
And the English aren't nationalistic? Come on!:lol:
Anyway, let's leave it there because we have fundamentally different political views - and I'm not turning this into a political discussion :)
Marco.
I'm rather surprised by the responses posted to living in Spain.
My intention had been, prior to the Brexit decision to move to Spain, perhaps a Catalan villa costing about 1/6th of the value of my current home, and to enjoy the improved weather, lower heating costs, cycling through the vegetable groves, with a guarantee of health exchange and indexed linked pension.
But the posts here seem to indicate that this will not necessarily be what it seems.
think you need to learn the lingo to make much of it, unless living in a "little England" enclave. guess you just have to see how foreign folk are perceived here who dont have much of a grasp of the language.
me being poor at languages i couldnt manage it. not sure i would be happy in a foreign country.
paulf-2007
13-03-2018, 10:46
We've owned a house in France for ten years, my French, virtually non existent, has improved from being there every other weekend and weeks at a time, talking to the neighbours. But is getting worse by not going as often in the past couple of years. Being in a rural setting in a village of 300 occupants is nice and the people are friendly, especially the children who always say bonjour when passing. My nearest neighbour even bought a French English dictionary. Sometimes it doesn't help when French people reply in English when I'm trying to improve my French.
think you need to learn the lingo to make much of it, unless living in a "little England" enclave.
Precisely! And it's called integrating; something any well-adjusted human being should capable of and would seek to do.
Quite simply, when you move to live in ANY country, you should always respect its practices and culture (not impose your own on it), and attempt to 'fit in' as much as possible, not try and create insular little enclaves, in an attempt to 'group hug' your fellow expats - and learning the local language [trying to live like a local] is a big part of that.
It rather reminds me of Brits flocking on holiday to some Godawful all-inclusive tourist resort in Spain, simply to experience 'Britain, but with sun'. It's both pathetic and ridiculous, and to have the same goals, when going to live there, would be even worse!:mental:
Marco.
I couldn't agree more, especially having seen the despicable way that many English have behaved in Spain.
English pubs, and fish and chip shops, boasting of a 'real English breakfast', and beer swilling drunks, and all whilst missing Spain's wonderful native food.
jandl100
14-03-2018, 06:42
Ahem!
Just to make sure that I don't get lumped in with the Fish & Chip / English pub brigade living in self-imposed ghettos on the Spanish coast ....
We bought a house on the outskirts of a small Spanish village called Barxeta, about 50km south of Valencia and 45 minutes drive in from the coast.
No other Brits there that we ever came across.
Spanish lingo was needed to converse with neighbour, post office and local village authorities. I well knew the Spanish for our electricity has stopped working, and we aren't getting any water out of the taps. :lol: The local town hall was very friendly and helpful ... and patient with my poor language skills. I think they regarded us as an interesting novelty.
Breakfast ....
https://i.imgur.com/MvlLrqS.jpg
I couldn't agree more, especially having seen the despicable way that many English have behaved in Spain.
English pubs, and fish and chip shops, boasting of a 'real English breakfast', and beer swilling drunks, and all whilst missing Spain's wonderful native food.
Indeed, Dennis. It's crazy, however it's not just the English guilty of such, but also other Brits. Don't get me wrong, if that's what they're into as a holiday, then good luck to them, but when you're going to live somewhere abroad, that's a different kettle of fish!
We have that problem in Tuscany, where my family originate from, with certain parts of it now referred to as 'Chiantishire', where Brits (in this case mainly English) have huddled all together in insular little enclaves, as mentioned earlier, for what reason I've no idea, simply serving to spoil the area [by diluting its 'Italian-ness']. I simply don't understand the mentality:scratch:
Even if I didn't speak Italian, and living in Italy was a whole new experience for me, I'd still want to get right in amongst the locals and try and integrate into their way of living as quickly as possible, as presumably I'd have had valid reasons for moving there in the first place, seeking to enjoy a different lifestyle that I couldn't get back in the UK!
Marco.
Looks great, Jerry (I've seen you post that picture before). So if you don't mind me asking, what was it exactly about living in Spain you didn't like (wasn't as you hoped it would be), which caused you to move back to the UK, as mentioned earlier? :)
Just curious! :cool:
Marco.
jandl100
14-03-2018, 08:50
Looks great, Jerry (I've seen you post that picture before). So if you don't mind me asking, what was it exactly about living in Spain you didn't like (wasn't as you hoped it would be), which caused you to move back to the UK, as mentioned earlier? :)
Just curious! :cool:
Marco.
It was the 25% influence of my illogical right half brain.
We really enjoyed being there for all of the obvious reasons. Fantastic.
But I had no idea what 'homesickness' was until it started to happen after about 15 months being there.
After 18 months I mentioned my thoughts on it to the wife -- whoosh, I was on the plane back to the UK on a house hunt! She felt the same.
It was just a kind of deep empty yearning that just carried on growing. Weird. Had to get HOOOOOOOOOOOME !!! :mental:
Lol... I can *totally* relate to that feeling, as I experience it to a much lesser degree when on holiday abroad, especially when we go for 3-4 weeks to Italy, during the summer holidays, but that's mainly borne from the desire for a change of food, because as much I love Italian cuisine (or French on the way there, as we always drive), I'm desperately hankering for some SPICE, in the form of a nice hot curry!!:eyebrows:
I'd imagine that it would be the same in Spain... Now I love *proper* Spanish food, but if one night you're sitting watching TV and suddenly feel like a Chinese or Indian takeaway (delivered to your door), how easy would that be to do in Spain, out with of the major cities? I can tell you that in Italy, you'd have NO chance! Also, since I've mentioned TV, I don't know about the Spanish variety, but the Italian one is SHIT!
All these things, when you're living day in day out somewhere, are important, and in terms of TV, I think ours in the UK is the best in the world. I know that once can access UK programmes, via satellite TV, but it's not the same.
I guess that some places, as great as they are in their own right, will never quite feel like home. The climate would also be a significant factor for me, as I simply couldn't live anywhere where it was continually hot and almost never rained!:nono:
Marco.
I get homesick if i go anywhere too. Used to work away from home all the time, a lot of it in Ireland, and as much as i liked it, it wasnt home and Scotland...for all its pitfalls
jandl100
14-03-2018, 09:22
Yes, summers were months on end of 'fantastic' weather.
-- that was OK, although we did miss the day to day variety you get in the UK.
The seasons were different, too.
Summer suddenly stopped and there was about 2 weeks of pretty much continuous rain. After which it was totally autumn. No slow changes, just wham, and there it was. Kinda strange.
Food.
We lived Spanish style from Spanish shops and supermarkets. The wife really loved it, she eats pretty much anything and is very adventurous. You can get some really strange parts of animals in Spanish shops! :eek: Fruit and veg choices were superb. Interestingly different fish, too.
Towns on the coast (45 minutes away) had Chinese restaurants which were very similar to those in the UK.
No Indian, though.
But the very first evening we were back in the UK I got sent out to get fish & chips! :lol: Not available in our part of Spain - and not usually a mainstay of our UK diet!
TV - well, I don't watch it in Spain or in the UK. The wife does a bit, and we had satellite TV installed there, a zillion channels including a lot of English language. That seemed to be OK.
Looking at it logically, I guess our yearning to get 'back home' was a whole bundle of stuff that can be rationalised logically, including a kind of risk assessment .... what if something went badly wrong? Car accident, health ... who knows what. So much easier to deal with in your home culture (and language). I guess, looking back, I was getting increasingly uneasy about that as time went by. Just a kind of "what if?".
walpurgis
14-03-2018, 09:48
I nipped into Tesco yesterday. I was pining for home before I got halfway round. :)
rigger67
14-03-2018, 09:50
My oldest mate from school moved to Brisbane about six or seven years ago with his partner of twenty years.
They were there about four and a half years and one day they were just talking about stuff and the UK came up and all of a sudden they both realised neither of them was happy and they were only there because they thought the other one loved it.
Turned out, the first couple of years were good because of the novelty but once that wore off they were homesick.
They've been back two years now and have never been happier :)
(As am I because my Subbuteo partner is back in town !)
I nipped into Tesco yesterday. I was pining for home before I got halfway round. :)
dont blame you... morrisons is prettier:eyebrows:
Britain's a great country to live in, on various levels, even with the 'crap' weather, as unlike in other countries, we're not exposed to earthquakes, tornados or volcanic eruptions, so whilst the weather can be bad, it's generally safe!
Having lived in the Caribbean for two years I can relate to that - the annual hurricane season was like being in a bowling alley. Having said that you can adjust, but you have to reconcile the fact that 'stuff' is not important and you can't get too attached to it, as one day it might/probably all be gone.
I saw close friends lose everything in Ivan, one mate had recently bought a house, given it a complete makeover and shipped all new furniture over from Canada. After the storm when his family left the hurricane shelter, the roof, doors and all the windows were gone - not a single possession was left inside and there was sand 3 feet high throughout the entire house. That's what can happen if you choose to live in paradise!
He's still there though, comes from Bolton.
jandl100
14-03-2018, 10:01
He's still there though, comes from Bolton.
Wow - they make 'em tough in Bolton! :eek:
I'd have shipped out on the next plane.
My oldest mate from school moved to Brisbane about six or seven years ago with his partner of twenty years.
They were there about four and a half years and one day they were just talking about stuff and the UK came up and all of a sudden they both realised neither of them was happy and they were only there because they thought the other one loved it.
Turned out, the first couple of years were good because of the novelty but once that wore off they were homesick.
They've been back two years now and have never been happier :)
(As am I because my Subbuteo partner is back in town !)
Lol... It's just what you're used to, and holidaying somewhere is very different from living there. We've often toyed with the idea of moving abroad, to France or Italy, but when it came down to it, decided against it.
It's still a future possibility, and one way of getting round the 'homesick' thing would be to move to rural Northern France (as we like it out in the sticks), where if necessary, we'd be within a day's ferry trip from the UK, so in effect could get our 'UK hit' that way, whilst enjoying the benefits of a French lifestyle.
It's one to ponder... We'll see what the future brings! :cool:
Marco.
Wow - they make 'em tough in Bolton! :eek:
I'd have shipped out on the next plane.
Yup, I had left a few months before, not due to storms though. Ivan was a monster
http://ecology.md/uploads/files_elfinder/2017/12/klimat.jpg
My gripe was not about fish and chips, which can be very good and also a nutritional meal, but the imposition of a set of cultural(?) norms into another culture, often deriding the indigenous one.
The roots of this are not IMO in any way related to a supposed superiority of the imposed one, but in the psychology of the insecurity of being. (Ontological Security).
We all tend to belong to 'reference groups', and I suppose a deep audio and music interest places me in that one, but I don't deride film enthusiasts or denigrate their pursuit.
I do remember well being in a hotel with my ex in Spain, and piss coming over the balcony from some drunken young lads on the floor above, and also drunken slumped British with their heads resting in their own sick on tables outside drinking houses.
There is much to love about Britain, it has a great deal of beauty, and a wonderfully rich and barbaric history, and there is no doubt that I am deeply bonded with it.
It is also true that so many countries have their own beauty resulting from their terrain and climate, with their own architecture and vegetation, and lighting changes show each uniqueness.
Listen to Variations on a Theme From Thomas Tallis, and look at the beautiful English countryside, and not be moved.
jandl100
14-03-2018, 11:02
Listen to Variations on a Theme From Thomas Tallis, and look at the beautiful English countryside, and not be moved.
Or walk in the Austrian alps while playing Bruckner's 4th symphony on your CD Walkman.
I've done that.
Quite astonishing!
or walk through the Bathgate hills listening to the bay city rollers.. thou shalt be moved:eyebrows:
walpurgis
14-03-2018, 11:13
Or a stroll along Southall Broadway to the sound of whatever horrible noise it is that the Indians regard as music and is usually blaring out from some shop or food place.
Or walk in the Austrian alps while playing Bruckner's 4th symphony on your CD Walkman.
I've done that.
Quite astonishing!
Austria... Surely it has to be Mozart! ;)
Marco.
Mike Reed
14-03-2018, 15:08
I nipped into Tesco yesterday. I was pining for home before I got halfway round. :)
That's Tesco for you, so I'm not bloody surprised ! How long before you attempt the other half?
Mike Reed
14-03-2018, 15:20
Listen to Variations on a Theme By Thomas Tallis, and look at the beautiful English countryside, and not be moved.
Oddly, I was listening to this Fantasia in my loo over the weekend courtesy of Classic FM, with birds singing outside and, yes, I was moved.
I nipped into Tesco yesterday. I was pining for home before I got halfway round. :)
I once worked at a place where we had a very attractive 20 year old receptionist. She would start at 0800 and every day, by 0830, she was complaining that she wanted to go home. Eventually I pointed out to her that she had another 47 years to retirement so she would be better off just relaxing into it. Didn't go down too well.
Some folk just don't like reality checks!;)
Marco.
Americans are spoiled. We can drive 5,000 miles in any direction and everyone speaks English. Except the French in Quebec, and Mexican immigrants. Sure there are people from all over the world here in the US, and nearly all of them have to learn some English to get by, except now there are signs in Spanish everywhere, for the Mexican immigrants who are not trying to adjust to their new surroundings. There must be a lot of them, a lot of companies are spending a lot of money to accommodate them. All labels on all products sold in the US have Spanish translations. Which doesn’t bother me in the least. In fact, a person who is fluent in both English and Spanish can get a good job almost anywhere. I used to work at a grocery distributor, and none English speaking men unloaded the trucks. Called Lumpers. And a sharp young man spoke both languages and he translated their instructions all day. A gravy job he was paid well to do. I was amazed at how he could talk to me, and talk to them, almost at the same time.
And I’m fairly sure Aiwa is pronounced, (Ah-EE-wah), yes a 3 syllable word. A Japanese man I worked with long ago at a car radio shop pronounced it that way, and it seems I’ve heard it elsewhere too.
And I’ve always pronounced any capitol letters as letters. KEF is k-e-f, NAD is n-a-d. Otherwise, why are they all capitalized? Seems logical to me.
Russell
Mike Reed
15-03-2018, 14:42
..... and none English speaking men unloaded the trucks.
And I’m fairly sure Aiwa is pronounced, (Ah-EE-wah), yes a 3 syllable word.
And I’ve always pronounced any capitol letters as letters. KEF is k-e-f, NAD is n-a-d. Otherwise, why are they all capitalized? Seems logical to me.
Russell
'none English......' Is that no English ........ or non-English......?
Ai wa is a two syllable word, not three, Justin.
They may be capitalised, but if they were to be used as initials, they would have full stops (your periods) after each initial. I've NEVER heard of KEF and NAD to be called anything other than their phonetic pronunciation suggests. Many companies use capitals, or they could use initial capital plus lower case; this really doesn't reflect on their pronunciation at all.
montesquieu
15-03-2018, 15:58
Austria... Surely it has to be Mozart! ;)
Marco.
Or Schubert!
http://www.wienmuseum.at/en/locations/schubert-geburtshaus.html
BTW Russell is right when it comes to the Japanese pronunciation of Aiwa. It's three syllables. I just checked with the wife, who while not Japanese speaks and reads it rather well.
Having said that I can never resist a giggle at the way Americans pronounce 'Hyundai'. Something like Hahn-dee. Not a dipthong in sight.
jandl100
15-03-2018, 16:02
Austria... Surely it has to be Mozart! ;)
Marco.
No way - it's the alpine connection I mentioned - listen to the opening horn calls in Bruckner 4 and then imagine them echoing through the Austrian mountains.
It sends shivers down my spine just thinking about it.
Or Schubert!
http://www.wienmuseum.at/en/locations/schubert-geburtshaus.html
BTW Russell is right when it comes to the Japanese pronunciation of Aiwa. It's three syllables. I just checked with the wife, who while not Japanese speaks and reads it rather well.
Having said that I can never resist a giggle at the way Americans pronounce 'Hyundai'. Something like Hahn-dee. Not a dipthong in sight.
Thank you for the backup on Aiwa, To me it makes sense, and it is how it’s spelled.
And you’re right about average American pronunciations of any foreign word. Most Americans are lucky if they read on a 6 grade level. Sure there are plenty of well educated, intelligent people to be found, but for every one of those you find 5 others who are not. Public schools are failing our youth, I won’t get into that here. But you are right, I’ve heard Hyundai pronounced so many ways, I just go with the TV commercials, hopefully they are saying it right?
Russell
Or Schubert!
http://www.wienmuseum.at/en/locations/schubert-geburtshaus.html
BTW Russell is right when it comes to the Japanese pronunciation of Aiwa. It's three syllables. I just checked with the wife, who while not Japanese speaks and reads it rather well.
Having said that I can never resist a giggle at the way Americans pronounce 'Hyundai'. Something like Hahn-dee. Not a dipthong in sight.
I hear them say it as 'Hun-day'. I like that so I started pronouncing it that way too. It's amazing how many people immediately jump in to correct you. Then you ask them what they think of them and they say 'They're shit.' So why do you care how it's pronounced then? Muppets.
Then you've got Dacia which is supposed to be 'Dach-ee-arr'. Whatever mate, you're in England now so it's fucking Day-see-ah. Live with it.
walpurgis
15-03-2018, 18:22
I had a Hyundai (hyoon-dye). Damn well made car and the only one I've owned that never gave me backache on a long run. Plenty quick enough too.
http://i64.tinypic.com/fbff42.jpg
Nice wee car that, Geoff. Pity your tastes have deteriorated somewhat since then and gone all boring!;)
Marco.
walpurgis
15-03-2018, 18:35
Needs must mate! :)
Beobloke
15-03-2018, 19:11
Having said that I can never resist a giggle at the way Americans pronounce 'Hyundai'. Something like Hahn-dee. Not a dipthong in sight.
More like "Hoon-day", which never fails to irritate me when I'm over there. Not nearly as much as the way they somehow manage to turn "Nissan" into "Neee-sahrn", though!
On, and for anyone who was interested, O'hEocha is actually pronounced "oh-haughey" - a bit like "oh-hockey" but with the 'ck' in the middle softened.
'none English......' Is that no English ........ or non-English......?
Ai wa is a two syllable word, not three, Justin.
They may be capitalised, but if they were to be used as initials, they would have full stops (your periods) after each initial. I've NEVER heard of KEF and NAD to be called anything other than their phonetic pronunciation suggests. Many companies use capitals, or they could use initial capital plus lower case; this really doesn't reflect on their pronunciation at all.
What about SME?
Americans pronounce soldering as soddering- this seems to be true irrespective of where in the country they come from.
Americans pronounce soldering as soddering- this seems to be true irrespective of where in the country they come from.
Squirrel seems to be 'Skwirl' all over too. I've adopted that one as well.
In some case they are using the 'correct' sixteenth century pronunciation* and it's us that have changed. In that situation difficult to say who's right.
*EDIT: Not with Hyundai, obviously.
Mike Reed
15-03-2018, 20:12
What about SME?
Good one, but surely the stops have just disappeared over time (does it stand for 'scale model engineering?). Re. Aiwa, I have no idea if the Jap. pronunciation separates the a from the i as in ah ee, but in any other language I'm sure it'll be pronounced as one syllable 'aye'. I know it's a company, but would it be different from 'banzai'? I've never heard it as ah ee wah (3 syllables). Reminds me of Trow eeka, as somebody always called his Troika.
Minstrel SE
16-03-2018, 10:55
I will say kefs, nads (gonads) but I will say S.M.E as if somehow they deserve the effort :) anyway saying smeee would make me sound like a total clown.
I dont think it matters much. Nobody in a Hi fi show or shop has ever had a problem understanding what I am referring to. If they are going to take offence they can correct me and I use these shortened terms affectionately
Japanese is not our native tongue so we will naturally pronounce it in a British way and soften the syllables. Are Aiwa sill going and I notice people are still paying silly money for the 990 cassette deck
I will say kefs, nads (gonads) but I will say S.M.E as if somehow they deserve the effort :) anyway saying smeee would make me sound like a total clown.
Well, why stop the habits of a lifetime?:lol::D
Only kidding! It's simply because pronouncing 'SME', as 'Smee', would render you as an utter TIT! So... S.M.E it is.
:exactly:
Marco.
jandl100
16-03-2018, 11:11
I've found that hifi dealers often pronounce it as smee.
"Oh yes, I'd recommend a smee 309 for that".
Did you give them a slap?
Marco.
jandl100
16-03-2018, 11:25
Not that I recall.
I think it's just easier to say and they probably think it makes them sound cool.
Lol - I'd argue quite the opposite!
Marco.
jandl100
16-03-2018, 11:35
Mmm .... it's a few years ago now, but I'm pretty sure that the main smee - err S.M.E. - dealer in the UK in terms of sales used to say smee.
Then he must've been a pretentious tit!
I'd be fairly confident that the late Mr Alastair Robertson-Aikman wouldn't have called it 'Smee';)
Marco.
jandl100
16-03-2018, 11:44
No, he wasn't a pretentious tit at all. It's just easier to say when you are saying it a lot.
And I feel sure that ARA would have said "S.M.E. my dear chap". :lol:
Lol, indeed. He'd have shuddered at the very notion of "Smee":eek:
Best reserved for oiks, me thinks;)
Marco.
walpurgis
16-03-2018, 11:56
'Smee' was Captain Hook's bosun in Peter Pan. So there!! :)
Mike Reed
16-03-2018, 12:25
I've found that hifi dealers often pronounce it as smee.
"Oh yes, I'd recommend a smee 309 for that".
Wasn't 'Smee' a nasty character in 'Peter Pan'?
Edit. Bugger, Geoff got there before me. Amazing how this children's story embeds into one's memory banks.
Geoff beat you to it! See above;)
Marco.
Well I have always pronounced it S M E, despite the fact that "smee" is easier to say - it just sounds wrong.
(Fans of 'Red Dwarf' will be reminded of the service android Kryten. Owing to him being fitted with a politeness chip, he is incapable of saying anything offensive or insulting; so when he tries to say "smeg" (a frequent four-letter expletive used by Lyster) it comes out as "smeee...").
Just as when I worked for GEC, I and everyone else pronounced it "G E C", and not "Gek". Incidentally the late Sir Arnold Weinstock when referring to the Company always said "The GEC". Since GEC stood for 'General Electric Company', he was correct albeit pedantic - no-one I knew would include the definite article.
But I do pronounce KEF as "Kef" and NAD as "Nad", yet will say "Bang and Olufsen" rather than "B and O".
Nothing like being inconsistent - it shows you are human.
your a smee.... im a smee?.... yes, a complete and utter one:eek:
Mike Reed
16-03-2018, 17:23
Just as when I worked for GEC, I and everyone else pronounced it "G E C"
I'm pretty sure I worked at the G.E.C. (there y'go !:)) in the sixties; in an office. All I can remember is that it was in or near the City, and all the desks were lined up underneath the many windows on one side. Think it was payroll or sth similar. Can't think I was there that long, though.
paulf-2007
16-03-2018, 19:39
Lol... It's just what you're used to, and holidaying somewhere is very different from living there. We've often toyed with the idea of moving abroad, to France or Italy, but when it came down to it, decided against it.
It's still a future possibility, and one way of getting round the 'homesick' thing would be to move to rural Northern France (as we like it out in the sticks), where if necessary, we'd be within a day's ferry trip from the UK, so in effect could get our 'UK hit' that way, whilst enjoying the benefits of a French lifestyle.
It's one to ponder... We'll see what the future brings! :cool:
Marco.
Our house is 70 miles from Calais, so back in Blighty in no time at all. Had planned to move lock stock and barrel, but talking French on the telephone is very difficult and various other things make it seem hard going, the wife doesn't drive and has to rely on me to go anywhere yet here she can do her own thing. What made me realise it wasn't going to work for her was when I went shopping in town here and she chats with all the shop staff and couldn't do that in France. She speaks English well enough and her native Thai but is too late in life to be proficient in French. Weather is shite like here in winter and colder.
paulf-2007
16-03-2018, 19:51
Or a stroll along Southall Broadway to the sound of whatever horrible noise it is that the Indians regard as music and is usually blaring out from some shop or food place.
Southall Broadway is like beings in India, driven through there many times, lived in Greenford briefly.
Hi Paul,
Our house is 70 miles from Calais, so back in Blighty in no time at all. Had planned to move lock stock and barrel, but talking French on the telephone is very difficult and various other things make it seem hard going, the wife doesn't drive and has to rely on me to go anywhere yet here she can do her own thing. What made me realise it wasn't going to work for her was when I went shopping in town here and she chats with all the shop staff and couldn't do that in France. She speaks English well enough and her native Thai but is too late in life to be proficient in French. Weather is shite like here in winter and colder.
All interesting stuff :)
My French is pretty good, so the language barrier wouldn't be an issue, and the French culture is similar to my own and that of my wife, with us essentially being Europeans living in the UK. Shite weather also wouldn't an issue, as neither of us are sun worshippers, plus we could go for trips down south when the urge for better weather arose! :cool:
Marco.
Mike Reed
17-03-2018, 16:04
.... with us essentially being Europeans living in the UK.
Marco.
Well, well ! I never had you down as one of them darned forriners, Marco. (I am referring to Glasgie, of course):lol:
montesquieu
17-03-2018, 16:23
Well, well ! I never had you down as one of them darned forriners, Marco. (I am referring to Glasgie, of course):lol:
Well that's certainly how I felt when I ventured east of Harthill ... strange lot those Jam Tarts and Hibees fans.
Well, well ! I never had you down as one of them darned forriners, Marco. (I am referring to Glasgie, of course):lol:
Lol - aye!:eyebrows:
Marco.
Well that's certainly how I felt when I ventured east of Harthill ... strange lot those Jam Tarts and Hibees fans.
thats well east of harthill...
Squirrel seems to be 'Skwirl' all over too. I've adopted that one as well.
In some case they are using the 'correct' sixteenth century pronunciation* and it's us that have changed. In that situation difficult to say who's right.
*EDIT: Not with Hyundai, obviously.
It's a bit odd getting sniffy about the 'correct' English pronunciation of a word from a language with an entirely different alphabet.
Even with English words, who gets to decide the correct pronunciation? Should 'bath' have a long or short 'a'? Should 'envelope' be pronounced as spelled, or as 'onvelope'? How about 'garage'?
Mike Reed
19-03-2018, 17:33
Even with English words, who gets to decide the correct pronunciation? Should 'bath' have a long or short 'a'? Should 'envelope' be pronounced as spelled, or as 'onvelope'? How about 'garage'?
Simples !. 'Bath' will be pronounced according to local accent and be correct, though my N.O.E.D. only gives the short 'a' pronunciation. 'Envelope' and other French-derived nouns can be pronounced either way and 'garage', according to my new O.E.D., has two pronunciations. I have to say that I thought that the one with the stress on the last syllable was American English, but there's no mention of that. Such is the flexible nature of our marvellous language, cobbled together from so many sources through the ages. Not so simples after all !
It's a bit odd getting sniffy about the 'correct' English pronunciation of a word from a language with an entirely different alphabet.
Even with English words, who gets to decide the correct pronunciation? Should 'bath' have a long or short 'a'? Should 'envelope' be pronounced as spelled, or as 'onvelope'? How about 'garage'?
I love the fact that accents and pronunciations are different all over, and I love local dialects too. I'd hate to see them die out. When I moved to Staffordshire 30 years ago you could barely understand what some of the old folk were saying, it was almost all in dialect. But now that generation have all gone the local accent and dialect has faded a bit from use. It's a shame.
Written English is a different matter. Not a big deal on forums but for official and work-related communication I expect it all to be spot on grammar and spelling-wise. There's no excuses these days. Get the computer to do it for you if you have to. Despite that the standard seems to be dropping daily.
What's the Stoke dialect like? Can't say I've heard it, or you ever speaking it:)
The Staffordshire one is quite broad-ranging, so will be different where you are, compared with, say, somewhere like Rugeley...
Btw, whether it's for work or on forums, you should always try and write as well as you can, using proper English. As they say, if you don't use it, you lose it!
As far as forums go, it really annoys me when seemingly well-educated people are too lazy to punctuate properly or apply cohesive sentence structures, in turn making their posts rather difficult to read...:rolleyes:
Mind you, if they sat their asses down at a proper keyboard, rather than typing on a bloody phone, it might help!!
Marco.
What's the Stoke dialect like? Can't say I've heard it, or you ever speaking it:)
Marco.
You have words like 'Ast' which means 'Are you...?'
'Conner', for 'can't'
'Shonna' for shan't
'Onna' for won't.
'Dust' for 'do'
'Thee' for 'you'
Bus is prouncunced 'buzz'
Water is pronounced 'waiter' or 'watter'
Have a go at decoding this. It's a cartoon they used to run in the local paper. Took me years:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23057&d=1521484481
I don't speak it because I'm not from round here. I could talk scouse you could not understand in a million years mind.
Lol - most interesting!
Marco.
Beobloke
19-03-2018, 22:10
Written English is a different matter. Not a big deal on forums but for official and work-related communication I expect it all to be spot on grammar and spelling-wise. There's no excuses these days. Get the computer to do it for you if you have to. Despite that the standard seems to be dropping daily.
Get the computer to do grammar and spelling for you? Hmmm, I know a poem about that...
Eye halve a spelling chequer,
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.
Eye strike a quay and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
It's rare lea ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
It's letter perfect awl the weigh
My spell chequer tolled me sew.
;)
Have a go at decoding this. It's a cartoon they used to run in the local paper. Took me years:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23057&d=1521484481
What is so difficult about that? Just read it phonetically.
Yet it took you years to 'decode'?;)
Marco.
Mike Reed
20-03-2018, 08:56
Btw, whether it's for work or on forums, you should always try and write as well as you can, using proper English. As they say, if you don't use it, you lose it!
As far as forums go, it really annoys me when seemingly well-educated people are too lazy to punctuate properly or apply proper sentence structures, in turn making their posts difficult to read...:rolleyes:
Mind you, if they sat their asses down at a proper keyboard, rather than typing on a bloody phone, it might help!!
Marco.
:lol: I like it ! I am a total pedant, so my support is questionable, though. I have to mention the oft-repeated horrors of the greengrocer's apostrophe and its/it's, who's/whose, plus their/there and many other misused homophones. However, it's the lack of paragraphs in a long post which throws me; I get about half-way and start drooping. Oh yes, and the use of 'fora' instead of 'forums'. Pretentious, n'est-ce-pas?
There's a chap with an odd pseudonym on another forum who is quite prolific but invariably posts two or three hundred word paragraphs. It looks to be quite informative stuff on the whole, but I haven't yet managed a whole post so I'm not sure !:)
Spell-check, or whatever it's called, is useful in exposing (usually typographical) errors, but I'm not sure it can help in other ways (esp. homophones)
Mike Reed
20-03-2018, 09:02
I don't speak it because I'm not from round here. I could talk scouse you could not understand in a million years mind.
Scouse doesn't hold a candle to Geordie. All is lost when you venture north-west of the border, though.:lol:
walpurgis
20-03-2018, 09:11
Btw, whether it's for work or on forums, you should always try and write as well as you can, using proper English. As they say, if you don't use it, you lose it!
Marco.
I agree with that Marco.
Most members seem reasonably educated and literate, so any lack of coherence and intelligibility in posts is probably laziness.
The main bugbear for me and others I'm sure, is the regular lack of paragraphing. I tend to ingore large 'slabs' of text.
However, it's the lack of paragraphs in a long post which throw me; I get about half-way and start drooping. Oh yes, and the use of 'fora' instead of 'forums'. Pretentious, n'est-ce-pas?
Indeed; I simply switch off! It's mostly nothing other than sheer laziness, so pretty inexcusable, although typing on a mobile phone doesn't help. I simply couldn't cope with the teeny-tiny keys and the (achingly) annoying, and unhelpfully intrusive, predictive text! :rolleyes:
As for 'fora', again we're in agreement. The term is grammatically correct, but simply too stilted for use within informal communication. There's a balance between using proper English, in order to make yourself understood, and sounding like a tit;)
Spell-checking software is fine, as you say, for highlighting typographical errors, but is virtually useless for correcting anything grammatical. In that respect, it's about as useful as 'Google Translate', when attempting to decipher a foreign language!
Marco.
spendorman
20-03-2018, 09:14
I agree with that Marco.
Most members seem reasonably educated and literate, so any lack of coherence and intelligibilty in posts is probably laziness.
The main bugbear for me and others I'm sure, is the regular lack of paragraphing. I tend to ingore large 'slabs' of text.
This is surprising, as a lot of us here are, or were engineers, and engineers often used to have poor written English. lol!
walpurgis
20-03-2018, 09:19
Pretentious, n'est-ce-pas?
As is the inexcusable bunging in of Gallicisms! :lol:
walpurgis
20-03-2018, 09:23
This is surprising, as a lot of us here are, or were engineers, and engineers often used to have poor written English. lol!
That's true across most professions I think.
I agree with that Marco.
Most members seem reasonably educated and literate, so any lack of coherence and intelligibilty in posts is probably laziness.
Indeed. I'm not talking about folks who aren't able to write any better, but those who clearly could *if* they wanted to!
And btw, it's 'intelligibility';)
[Pedant mode off].
The main bugbear for me and others I'm sure, is the regular lack of paragraphing.
Absolutely! What those guilty of such perhaps don't realise is that, upon encountering it, probably 90% of people will simply bypass what's written, without even attempting to read it, as reams of prose, minus paragraphs, is simply hard on the eyes and requires too much effort to decipher.
Therefore, it's completely counterproductive if you want people to actually READ what you've written...........
We should start a national campaign, encouraging the lazy sods to 'get jiggy' with their [return] key!:eyebrows:
Marco.
This is surprising, as a lot of us here are, or were engineers, and engineers often used to have poor written English. lol!
Yes, that's very true! So what is it then with engineers: are they otherwise intelligent people who simply failed their English exams?;)
As teacher would say: 'Must do better'!:D
Marco.
spendorman
20-03-2018, 09:37
Yes, that's very true! So what is it then with engineers: are they otherwise intelligent people who simply failed their English exams?;)
As teacher would say: 'Must do better'!:D
Marco.
Not only English, but I had problems with Maths, still do !!
walpurgis
20-03-2018, 09:45
I was booted from school at the age of fourteen, before I could take exams. I also recorded the lowest annual report score ever at my school, 3%. All due to boredom and laziness.
spendorman
20-03-2018, 10:22
I was booted from school at the age of fourteen, before I could take exams. I also recorded the lowest annual report score ever at my school, 3%. All due to boredom and laziness.
At school I was told that I'd never pass O levels, so was put in for CSE's. It was a crap school. Left and went to Technical College. Along with the City and Guilds Engineering course, I took O levels, got all those too, went on to OND and then higher level courses.
walpurgis
20-03-2018, 10:28
Yeah. I did well at college too from the age of 21. Passed everything with credits (bit annoyed, my mate got distinctions :)). City and Guilds Streetworks. Went on to a lifetime working in highway engineering.
Mike Reed
20-03-2018, 11:36
As for 'fora', again we're in agreement. The term is grammatically correct, but simply too stilted for use within informal communication. There's a balance between using proper English, in order to make yourself understood, and sounding like a tit;)
Marco.
The term 'fora' can be used for more than one Roman meeting place. This is SUCH a commonplace use of the word, of course :rolleyes:). It is not correct for any other use, Marco. 'Tis written in O.E.D. stone.:)
Mike Reed
20-03-2018, 11:59
And btw, it's 'intelligibility';)
[Pedant mode off].
Marco.
That's harsh.:) Typos (don't think that merits an apostrophe of omission nowadays) are very different to linguistic errors in my book. Okay, you can proof-read your post more than once, but typos have a habit of eluding poor eyesight. I would fail at the first hurdle on a hand-held appliance, and only just manage on this 'orribly sticky keyboard on mine.
Thought for the day; in hindsight or with hindsight? This prepositional error is just so widespread, including amongst broadcasters and others you'd expect better from. Furthermore, how did this erroneous change occur? This is current bugbear number one, but there are other similar grammatical abortions popping up from time to time.
You mention leeway for those who have difficulty, but I've found a correlation between poor written English and a reluctance to be subtly educated. Not here, I may add, but on other forums. I think there's a big difference between (lack of) prowess at school and a lack of realisation in middle age when one should have the benefit of hindsight.
Personally, I'm an easy-going pedant. I can spot mistakes, and will point them out if amusing enough, but they don't bother me, which I guess is why I never wanted to be a teacher.*
Plus, of course, it's easy to get all hoity-toity about poor grammar and spelling, but scientific/technical stuff baffles me, and whilst I do reasonably well with basic arithmetic, algebra is a closed book, geometry leaves me cold, and my graphs at school were a combination of guesswork and looking over someone's shoulder and copying what they'd done.
*Possibly my favourite was a newspaper misprint, published in Private Eye many years ago. It was a report of a cycle race, in which an injured competitor bravely carried on. According to the paper 'Though he did his best, he was clearly in pain, and feeling every bum on the road'.
Beobloke
20-03-2018, 12:46
Yes, that's very true! So what is it then with engineers: are they otherwise intelligent people who simply failed their English exams?;)
As teacher would say: 'Must do better'!:D
Marco.
This particular engineer is the son of a retired English teacher. Poor grammar wasn't an option! :D
rigger67
20-03-2018, 13:24
Got another one :
https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODc3WDEwMjQ=/z/qHUAAOSwQJ5US7Sl/$_86.JPG
I bought a pair of Solavox from Comet when I was about 16.
They were alright for my first pair of brand new speakers - I replaced them with the classic Mission 70s in black - but I always called them "Soll-Ah-Vox" in my head.
Since then, I've seen speakers from a company called Solarvox - obviously the same firm as the logo font was identical - so I guess I got in wrong ..
The term 'fora' can be used for more than one Roman meeting place. This is SUCH a commonplace use of the word, of course :rolleyes:). It is not correct for any other use, Marco. 'Tis written in O.E.D. stone.:)
Haha... Whilst I'm aware of the Roman connection [much of this stuff was drummed into me during Latin lessons in secondary school, by rather strict Catholic nuns], I'd always considered that 'fora' was a formally acceptable pluralising of the word 'forum', if as I say, a little stilted...
Marco.
This particular engineer is the son of a retired English teacher. Poor grammar wasn't an option!
Lol - well you get extra Brownie points for that! I'm curious though, how amongst academically educated and intelligent people, engineers often demonstrate the poorest command of English, and also possess virtually no aptitude for learning a foreign language.
I think it relates to something Joe said earlier:
Plus, of course, it's easy to get all hoity-toity about poor grammar and spelling, but scientific/technical stuff baffles me, and whilst I do reasonably well with basic arithmetic, algebra is a closed book, geometry leaves me cold...
I'm the same, so I guess it depends on how your brain works.
Curiously though, on forums [no 'fora' here, haha] it's often only those who are good at maths/technical stuff, who are credited with having any intelligence - perhaps because, as was pointed out earlier, forums are largely full of engineers (or geeky 'tech types')!!:D
This is often most evident on 'objectivist vs. subjectivist' hi-fi debates, where those belonging in the latter camp are never given credit by their objectivist counterparts, for being able to successfully engage the right side of their brains!;)
The fact is, hi-fi is just as much about art, as it is science.
Marco.
Here's an interesting little test:
BBSZnjSrDvY
Try it and see how you get on!
Marco.
Mike Reed
20-03-2018, 17:49
This particular engineer is the son of a retired English teacher. Poor grammar wasn't an option! :D
Wow ! Educated circuit diagrams with grammatically correct components and punctuated potentiometers. Respect !:lol:
Beobloke
20-03-2018, 23:10
Here's an interesting little test:
Try it and see how you get on!
Marco.
I use my left and right brain 50/50 apparently!
walpurgis
21-03-2018, 08:49
Here's an interesting little test:
BBSZnjSrDvY
Try it and see how you get on!
Marco.
63% left 37% right for me.
I use my left and right brain 50/50 apparently!
Cool... I think that shows in your approach to hi-fi;)
Marco.
63% left 37% right for me.
Is that about what you'd have thought, Geoff? Again, based on what I know of your approach to audio, and how you apply yourself in that respect, it seems about right:)
Marco.
anthonyTD
21-03-2018, 09:16
41% Left 59% Right.
A...
Now, given what I know about you (your background), and approach to audio, and what your trade is, that's interesting!!;)
Marco.
anthonyTD
21-03-2018, 09:25
Tried a second time,
31% Left 69% Right
A...
Now, given what I know about you (your background), and approach to audio, and what your trade is, that's interesting!!;)
Marco.
walpurgis
21-03-2018, 09:30
Is that about what you'd have thought, Geoff? Again, based on what I know of your approach to audio, and how you apply yourself in that respect, it seems about right:)
Marco.
The attributes or characteristics of brain 'handedness' are generalisations and don't seem to apply to me too well.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321037.php
Well, I just tried it and got some rather unexpected results! 56% Left Brain and 44% Right Brain:eek:
Try this one. It's quite a good one, and analyses the input differently: https://www.arealme.com/left-right-brain/en/
I'm convinced that there's a valid correlation between left/right brain thinking, and how we, as audio enthusiasts 'manage' our hobby! Or for that matter, how the electronics engineers/builders amongst us go about their designs, and which reflects on how they perform...
Marco.
walpurgis
21-03-2018, 09:54
Try this one. It's quite a good one, and analyses the input differently: https://www.arealme.com/left-right-brain/en/
Marco.
Tried that 56% left 44% right. It said 'Left brain inclined ANALYTIC'.
We are getting similar scores.
anthonyTD
21-03-2018, 10:01
Took that one too, and it seems I have a 50/50 perfect left and right balance!:rolleyes:
Well, I just tried it and got some rather unexpected results! 56% Left Brain and 44% Right Brain:eek:
Try this one. It's quite a good one, and analyses the input differently: https://www.arealme.com/left-right-brain/en/
I'm convinced that there's a valid correlation between left/right brain thinking, and how we, as audio enthusiasts 'manage' our hobby! Or for that matter, how the electronics engineers/builders amongst us go about their designs, and which reflects on how they perform...
Marco.
walpurgis
21-03-2018, 10:03
It said 'Left brain inclined ANALYTIC'
That's strange really. I regard myself as too lazy (or is that laid back?) to be overly analytical, although I do tend to remember tiny technical details for no particular reason. Perhaps I should take up electronics! :lol:
The attributes or characteristics of brain 'handedness' are generalisations and don't seem to apply to me too well.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321037.php
I don't think that a person is strictly either one of the other [left or right-brained]; I don't buy into that. I think that we apply the use of whatever thinking we consider is best for a given situation.
What I do believe, however, is that some of us have more of an aptitude, proficiency, call it what you will, for performing certain tasks better than others, which is determined by the judicious use of either creative or analytical thinking - and that there is substantial evidence of that on forums, in terms of our respective approaches to audio, and in our ability to successfully 'problem solve'.
Marco.
Took that one too, and it seems I have a 50/50 perfect left and right balance!:rolleyes:
Lol - maybe I should've directed you instead to the daftee test? I suspect the results of that would be conclusive!:D
Marco.
That's strange really. I regard myself as too lazy (or is that laid back?) to be overly analytical...
That's not what it's about though. You're confusing behavioural patterns/personality with thought processes, and the two aren't necessarily (or always) intrinsically linked.
Marco.
walpurgis
21-03-2018, 10:14
What I do believe, however, is that some of us have more of an aptitude, proficiency, call it what you will, for performing certain tasks better than others, which is determined by the judicious use of either creative or analytical thinking
Marco.
Not sure about the certain tasks bit. I think anybody can master anything, assuming they have the intelligence, interest and need.
Yes, but it's about the route chosen to 'master' the task concerned, and subsequently just how well that task has *actually* been 'mastered'!;)
Would you apply more analytical or creative thinking to the process, and why? For example, when building an amplifier, what percentage of both forms of thinking would you apply to the task, in order to consider that you've 'mastered' it.....?
I'm sure that any competent amplifier designer would consider that they've successfully 'mastered' the art [that's the key word here] of amplifier design, but in reality, some will have managed it better than others, simply due to how well their respective thought processes [creative vs. analytical thinking] have been applied.
Marco.
walpurgis
21-03-2018, 10:29
Would you apply more analytical or creative thinking to the process, and why? For example, when building an amplifier, what percentage of both forms of thinking would you apply to the task, in order to consider that you've 'mastered' it.....?
Marco.
I'd say analytical thinking would be needed for designing a circuit and creative thinking for laying out the board or wiring, so both apply. Probably equally I think. Not that I've ever done an amp.
I'd say analytical thinking would be needed for designing a circuit and creative thinking for laying out the board or wiring, so both apply. Probably equally I think.
I agree, but I believe there are also other areas where an artistic/artisanal approach is relevant to good amplifier design, and it often results in design choices being made that significantly influence the final result [what we hear]!
Btw, please also see the additional paragraph I've added to my previous post.
Marco.
Just to extrapolate my earlier point...
...I believe there are also other areas where an artistic/artisanal approach is relevant to good amplifier design, and it often results in design choices being made that significantly influence the final result [what we hear]!
I'd contend that the EEs best able to apply BOTH creative and analytical thinking [which makes Anthony's left/right-brain results here interesting], in areas of their designs where it's most advantageous, will more often than not produce the best amplifiers, i.e. those that when listened to at length with music, over a period of time, in a variety of different contexts, are enjoyed by more people.
That, for me, is the acid test for the efficacy of any piece of hi-fi equipment, not simply how well it measures!
Marco.
Not sure about the certain tasks bit. I think anybody can master anything, assuming they have the intelligence, interest and need.
I'm completely cack-handed when it comes to DIY stuff; I certainly had the intelligence and the need, but found it incredibly stressful; indeed, the only times I've really lost my temper was when DIY-ing. The family just left me to get on with it as they knew I'd be effing and blinding whilst doing it. Now I just pay someone.
Well, I just tried it and got some rather unexpected results! 56% Left Brain and 44% Right Brain:eek:
Try this one. It's quite a good one, and analyses the input differently: https://www.arealme.com/left-right-brain/en/
I'm convinced that there's a valid correlation between left/right brain thinking, and how we, as audio enthusiasts 'manage' our hobby! Or for that matter, how the electronics engineers/builders amongst us go about their designs, and which reflects on how they perform...
Marco.
I couldn't do the You Tube one (ie it wouldn't accept my input), but for the one you link to above I got 53% left brain and 47% right brain, which did slightly surprise me, but I guess I have a fairly analytical brain, just not with anything involving hard sums.
The problem with these sort of tests with binary questions is that I often want to reply 'no preference' or 'none of the above', or even 'what a stupid question!'.
...but for the one you link to above I got 53% left brain and 47% right brain, which did slightly surprise me, but I guess I have a fairly analytical brain, just not with anything involving hard sums.
Indeed, and I'm the same. I think my analytical side is being ably demonstrated here in recent posts.
However, when necessary, I'm also able to embrace and (successfully) apply my creative/artistic side, which in reference to audio, often translates as lateral thinking and the ability to use gut instincts to good effect.
It's probably reasonably safe to say that those who can apply both sides of their brain fairly equally are the most well-adjusted thinkers!;)
The problem with these sort of tests with binary questions is that I often want to reply 'no preference' or 'none of the above', or even 'what a stupid question!'.
Agreed, but not to the extent that it renders the results as null and void. For me, there's definitely something in it.
Marco.
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