View Full Version : Maplins in trouble
montesquieu
27-02-2018, 21:13
Could be the end of the road (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/27/toys-r-us-administration-jobs-risk)
Yes I saw that. There is one round the corner from me, opened in around '93, although I'd bought stuff mail-order from their catalogue previously. Been in there many times over the years, always handy if you need something right away. And always seems to be busy when I go in. They are pricey compared to the internet though. They do seem to have a viable business and brand name, just cash flow issues, so I'd be surprised if it doesn't work out somehow.
used to get a fair amount out of maplins in livingston. it was overpriced mostly but I liked to give them trade as I was good to have a shop to go to.
Sherwood
27-02-2018, 22:41
The writing has been on the wall for years. The demise of Tandy in the UK, and more recently, Radioshack in the US was a sign of things to come. Ebay, and the simplicity and low cost of buying items direct from the far east is the last nail in the coffin. I can't see Maplin making it to summer let alone beyond 2018. They might have had a fighting chance if their online presence was a bit more inspiring and price competitive.
Geoff
They are swimming against the tide but my theory is that in an all-internet world will generate a demand for solid retail stores, providing they can properly and consistently serve the niche market they attract. Like John Lewis for example. It's a big world now, even a niche market can be tens of millions of people.
Sherwood
27-02-2018, 23:36
They are swimming against the tide but my theory is that in an all-internet world will generate a demand for solid retail stores, providing they can properly and consistently serve the niche market they attract. Like John Lewis for example. It's a big world now, even a niche market can be tens of millions of people.
I don't think you can compare the business models. John Lewis is a company with high ethical principles and a reputation for quality customer service. I buy from JL when I can, especially where they offer a good warranty (including accidental damage coverage). My last big screen tv, notebook and tablet were all bought from JL. Maplin is a completely different business model. In my experience, many of the staff are not knowledgeable about the products they sell and the products in store are not competitively priced. The number of items carried as stock is pretty small, and often of pretty poor quality.
Ultimately, I think the problem is down to poor management and a failure to find a "market niche".
If I am not in a hurry I will order something on international ebay, or if I want something urgently, from ebay uk suppliers.
I will be sorry if yet another UK high street store ceases trading, but if I were a Maplin employee, I wouldn't be booking a summer holiday for 2018!
Geoff
All you say I agree with but my thrust was that Maplins could potentially become a John Lewis within its market. Not that it is now, but it may have that potential. It is nothing like as strong a brand as JL but it is a recognised, longstanding and untarnished one. Surviving the transition to an internet market is going to be the key for a lot/almost all of retail businesses. This is only the start I suspect.
Sherwood
28-02-2018, 00:35
All you say I agree with but my thrust was that Maplins could potentially become a John Lewis within its market. Not that it is now, but it may have that potential. It is nothing like as strong a brand as JL but it is a recognised, longstanding and untarnished one. Surviving the transition to an internet market is going to be the key for a lot/almost all of retail businesses. This is only the start I suspect.
I will concede that Maplin may have had the potential to become a strong niche player, especially after rivals like Tandy bit the dust. I fear that this opportunity has passed but time will tell!
Geoff
I used to buy a lot from Maplin when they offered a choice of product, such as interconnects and connector plugs and sockets but for the last couple of years their range of stock seems to have diminished to just the cheapies. If I want quality, I have to go online. They used to stock a range of audio hi-fi such as speaker cable, speaker stands (I bought both from them ten years ago) speaker drivers, etc. but not any more. Their stock nowadays is a lot of cheap Chinese made novelty items or unknown branded disco stuff.
I used to buy a lot from Maplin when they offered a choice of product, such as interconnects and connector plugs and sockets but for the last couple of years their range of stock seems to have diminished to just the cheapies. If I want quality, I have to go online. They used to stock a range of audio hi-fi such as speaker cable, speaker stands (I bought both from them ten years ago) speaker drivers, etc. but not any more. Their stock nowadays is a lot of cheap Chinese made novelty items or unknown branded disco stuff.
I used to buy Audax drivers from them, the good ones too. Still have some tweeters boxed up somewhere. But that was 25 years ago. I don't imagine they sell anything like that now.
Beobloke
28-02-2018, 12:48
I used to buy a lot from Maplin when they offered a choice of product, such as interconnects and connector plugs and sockets but for the last couple of years their range of stock seems to have diminished to just the cheapies. If I want quality, I have to go online. They used to stock a range of audio hi-fi such as speaker cable, speaker stands (I bought both from them ten years ago) speaker drivers, etc. but not any more. Their stock nowadays is a lot of cheap Chinese made novelty items or unknown branded disco stuff.
This is my issue with Maplin. As you say, they chiefly seem tobe sellers of cheap disco gear and computer parts these days - none of which interest me. What happened to the great audio kits you used to be able to buy?!
It's funny how you progress though. I remember discovering Tandy as a child and thinking it was a wonderful place, until I got more into electronics in-depth, and so moved on to Maplin. Then I discovered that RS and Farnell had much wider ranges and were cheaper, although it took a while before they'd sell to the general public.
Sherwood
28-02-2018, 12:52
The writing has been on the wall for years.
https://forums.theregister.co.uk/post/reply/2429274?
:deceased: RIP
Ammonite Audio
28-02-2018, 13:01
It has indeed. Much of what they sell seems to be the cheapest and poorest quality Chinese stuff, but priced much, much higher. Did they not see Amazon and eBay coming? Most people nowadays know tat when they see it and will venture online to see what else is available, for lower prices, and for next day delivery in the case of Amazon.
I'm very sorry for the staff but Maplin's day was passed many years ago.
Shovel_Knight
28-02-2018, 13:35
To be honest, I’ve been to Maplin only once when I urgently needed a VGA cable for an ancient projector, but the cheapest they had was 39 euros (WTF?!) and in the end it was much cheaper to add a VGA cable to my Amazon order and upgrade shipping to the Next Day option...
nutteronthebus
28-02-2018, 13:43
Just heard on the radio that they have gone bust now in administration ( may be a bargain to be had ) but a sad time for the staff
It has indeed. Much of what they sell seems to be the cheapest and poorest quality Chinese stuff, but priced much, much higher. Did they not see Amazon and eBay coming? Most people nowadays know tat when they see it and will venture online to see what else is available, for lower prices, and for next day delivery in the case of Amazon.
I'm very sorry for the staff but Maplin's day was passed many years ago.
yup, alas, have to agree. i will struggle to get bits for my maplins bolt now.
I am sorry about this. There is a store at the eastern end of my high street and in the basement they have a range of components and catalogues. The range is quite large and exceedingly handy on a Saturday afternoon. Agreed not in RS/CPC-Farnell territory but large enough and there's no waiting for Monday or Tuesdays post.
But here's the rub: it's printed in a thick paper catalogue and 95% is not even VISIBLE in their online store. The catalogues are hidden away and cost money, so nobody buys them and few even seem to know about them as evidenced by this thread, whilst the disco/starter kit tat and shonky cheap toys are well known.
There's a market there still but it maybe needs a lower profile presence, a sensible online presence, and I suspect much lower overheads to make it work. I hope they can manage it...
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Sherwood
28-02-2018, 14:48
Just heard on the radio that they have gone bust now in administration ( may be a bargain to be had ) but a sad time for the staff
Yes, instead of old tat at outrageous prices, there may be some old tat for sale at old tat prices!:uhho:
What happened to RadioShack? isn't that what Tandy was originally called?
RobbieGong
28-02-2018, 16:46
Shame if Maplins go, too many long standing names have disappeared.
Thing is businesses like these have to be forward thinking in these times otherwise you go down
Sherwood
28-02-2018, 16:59
I think they were called Radio Shack in America and their own-brand stuff was called Radio Shack in both America and the UK, but in the UK the shops were called Tandy.
Tandy Corporation was the US parent company and had many different businesses. When it expanded beyond the US it did so under the Tandy name. Although most of the products were branded Radioshack, don't forget the Tandy range of personal computers which were very popular at one point.
Geoff
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember that Maplin were more of a mail order company in the past with just a few shops.
I think that they should have stayed that way and gone more on-line.
The prices used to be far more competitive and they seemed to have a good formula to replace the defunct Tandy.
Last year I went into a shop in Taunton and a member of staff told me that they did not sell things like speaker plugs and sockets.
I just walked out at that point.
Mind you there is still Radio Spares.
Perhaps, if Maplin go back to how they were with a competitive on-line presence they could have a future.
It seems ironic that Maplin increased its shop base at just the wrong moment.
I suppose that there was pressure to increase profit and in the short term the strategy probably worked while making their long term future harder.
Minstrel SE
28-02-2018, 17:18
Surprise surpise in your best Cilla voice as its not really a surprise to me.
I havent bought from them for ages and the range has been going downhill to the point where I dont think they know other than a tat shop where the prices are not low. Sort of a mix of cheap looking disco lights, indoor aerials for caravans and stuff that can be bettered elsewhere
Ok many moons ago I use to buy connectors and things but I can online now and buy Neutrik, Deltron and all the best stuff. Dad orders from RS and Farnells when he is serious.
To me is was getting like some of the shite you saw in Tandy (Tandy wasnt all bad however) and you had to look harder for anything of real value and quality. I would say that I am surprised Maplins have lasted this long. Theres only so many local students needing breadboards :)
spendorman
28-02-2018, 18:14
I think they were called Radio Shack in America and their own-brand stuff was called Radio Shack in both America and the UK, but in the UK the shops were called Tandy.
A lot of their stuff was branded Realistic, I was given a mid priced tuner-amp with this name on, was pretty good.
Maplin abandoned the hobbyist in favour of Computer, Radio Controlled Cars, toys and other diverse stuff. Stuff that could be obtained cheaper elsewhere. If I was desperate for a part I would check the local store stock, say for a few generic transistors (BC 550 etc) and they would have 1.....1!ffs. When they were prob charging a 200% mark up on the buy in price would it really have been too much to have say 10 in stock at any one time?
paulf-2007
02-03-2018, 19:43
I wonder if moving to large retail units with big overheads was a mistake, the times I've been in the large stores they have been empty of customers, whereas the small shop they had been in for years in medway had steady trade and the staff knew their stuff. Greedy shareholders thinking they can make more money in a large store.
Greedy shareholders thinking they can make more money in a large store. . Stupidity comes in many guises.
Trying to expand your business to make more money isn't greedy, it's the single objective of any business.
paulf-2007
02-03-2018, 22:00
Trying to expand your business to make more money isn't greedy, it's the single objective of any business.
We will have to disagree in this instance
We will have to disagree in this instance
There's another purpose to a business other than to make money? You've lost me there Paul.
There isn't an obligation in business to chase the buck. It can be to give employment. Service to community. Give the owner and staff a living etc. Lots of companies reach this and just practice getting better rather than bigger
There isn't an obligation in business to chase the buck. It can be to give employment. Service to community. Give the owner and staff a living etc. Lots of companies reach this and just practice getting better rather than bigger
Well we are maybe going a bit o/t here but I see employment and service as welcome side-effects of successful business, not the point of it. if the business is not successful none of those things can happen. I'd argue that business creates society rather than the other way around. But you are right, the business does not have to keep getting bigger to be a success. It does have to make the right decisions about the future though, and sometimes that means getting bigger/changing, or going broke.
In Maplin's case they either made the wrong decision about direction or didn't implement it well enough. Ascribing it to 'greed' seems to be an emotional response based on an idea that business is somehow an intrinsically bad thing or at best a necessary evil we could potentially do without. I don't subscribe to that point of view at all.
There isn't an obligation in business to chase the buck.
Indeed. As a successful businessman myself, I think I'm qualified to comment on this.
"Chasing the Buck" (as a concept) is fine, but it depends on the type of business involved, and whether gross expansion (scaling up) is advantageous to the business model. Plus, more importantly, it has to be done RIGHT, and that means not simply being bigger, but also BETTER.
Yes, maximising profitability is what any successful business is about, but that won't happen, no matter how much the company concerned expands, *if* they lose sight of their core identity (the niche in the market and type of customer that the business was designed to target, and was created for, in the first place).
The *key* thing for ANY business, is understanding the needs of your target market, and then knowing how best to service those needs, by selling the right products. Only THEN will it be profitable! And in that respect, bigger isn't necessarily better.
The fact that Maplins got that so badly wrong, in the end (by taking the company in the wrong direction), is undoubtedly why they've sadly now gone under.
Marco.
Yes, maximising profitability is what any successful business is about, but that won't happen, no matter how much the company concerned expands, *if* they lose sight of their core identity (the niche in the market and type of customer that the business was designed to target, and was created for, in the first place). Marco.
Which is precisely what happened to Maplin.
Minstrel SE
05-03-2018, 22:38
I often wondered about them. I wondered how the core identity would support all those shops some of which seemed to be in semi prime locations. I think they have been fighting a losing battle for a long time and other internet suppliers must have been the final nail in the coffin. I dont think they knew how to adapt fast enough or in the right way. Who actually needs them apart from electronic project hobbyists? A fairly knowledgeable sector that can see other sources for what they need
I have wandered in for phono plugs and small bits and bobs but Im talking twenty plus years ago. I went in with dad many years ago but there was nothing of interest as I was browsing while dad was buying some urgently needed components. The key is urgently needed or I dont think he would have bothered with them.
Ive only ever been interested in their small components as its never been a place where I would buy a clock radio, amp, car alarm or anything larger than a phono plug.
I feel for people who dont have a job now but I dont miss Maplins in the same way I dont miss BHS or Toys R Us.
The internet has covered my needs since 2007 and Maplins didnt even feature in my search process
Probably not the brightest thing I've ever done, but I just placed an online order with Maplin for parts to externalise the PSU for my 1210. It went through, I have an order number, confirmation email and an estimated delivery date!
We shall see . . .
:popcorn:
May well be still working while in admin. Especially online side which is most likely to be profitable
Sherwood
06-03-2018, 10:15
Probably not the brightest thing I've ever done, but I just placed an online order with Maplin for parts to externalise the PSU for my 1210. It went through, I have an order number, confirmation email and an estimated delivery date!
We shall see . . .
:popcorn:
You like to live dangerously! Aside from the fact that any faulty parts will probably not be returnable and that no warranty will apply, bear in mind that yur order will be packed by staff who probably are not highly motivated and may harbour resentment for the company! It's like ordering food in a restaurant when you have just insulted the waiter! :wowzer:
Yup, can't argue with any of that Geoff and I did ponder before ordering. But it's only a plastic component box, some nuts and bolts and pack of heat shrink, total order under 15 quid, so if it's goes tits up I'll have to write it off.
Bit like watching a car crash I guess, you know you shouldn't but you just can't help yourself.
Well fair play to Maplin, everything I ordered arrived as promised, on the day stated and well packed. Not sure I'd do it again, but they are still (just) trading. Doubt they will be saved though.
From WIRED a couple of weeks ago:
"Ultimately, it wasn’t the internet that killed Maplin. It was Brexit. Sort of. “The business has worked hard over recent months to mitigate a combination of impacts from sterling devaluation post Brexit, a weak consumer environment and the withdrawal of credit insurance,” CEO Graham Harris said in a statement.
Online shopping definitely played a part, but it wasn’t the fatal blow. That’s a view shared by administrator PwC, which blames “a slowdown in consumer spending and more expensive imports as the pound has weakened” rather than Maplin’s outmoded business model. But now, if it is to have any chance of surviving, Maplin has to belatedly change."
The Register two days ago, under headline "UK Tat Bazaar Enters Final Death Spiral":
"Closing-down sale posters are being plastered over the shop windows of moribund Brit 'leccy tat emporium Maplin Electronics, but even now the discounted goods can still be bought more cheaply from rivals.
(...)
The sales promotion has seen product prices slashed in-store by between 10 to 50 per cent, but even factoring this into the equation, seven out of eight products El Reg compared can be procured more cheaply on the Interweb."
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Well fair play to Maplin, everything I ordered arrived as promised, on the day stated and well packed. Not sure I'd do it again, but they are still (just) trading. Doubt they will be saved though.
Of course they will, as your order will have made all the difference!:D
Today's headlines:
"Timbo saves Maplins with crucial late order!":hifive:
Marco.
Any business that goes broke as soon as the currency moves in value a little was built on shifting sands in the first place.
Or quicksand, more like;)
Marco.
Any business that goes broke as soon as the currency moves in value a little was built on shifting sands in the first place.
It's really quite astonishing that they managed to keep it going at all for 46 years!
True, they eventually became vendors of over-priced Chinese tat, but some of the items for sale were of reasonably decent quality. I shall miss them - if only for being a convenient place from which to buy Neutrix XLRs and good quality 4mm wander plugs, and 'odd and sods' such as die-cast instrument boxes, tie wraps and heat-shrink sleeving.
The shops were IMO always over-staffed: often having at least two members who seemed to be little more than 'shop walkers'; there to 'direct' you to the appropriate section of the store.
I feel sorry for all those who are going to be out of a job.
Minstrel SE
16-03-2018, 19:50
I agree with Robert. Its bloody astonishing they managed to keep it going for 46 years :)
Like spinning plates because I thought the whole damn affair was iffy in 1987..... never mind 2018.
Stuff the internet didnt hurt theory because I can order direct from China where it is made if I really want to. I wouldnt believe most CEOs when they give a public statement about reasons for the demise.
The real reasons are along the lines of fewer have any money after paying bills, other vendors are more focused or specialist in what they do, those with the money dont want tat, Rental prices for shop space, everything seems to be made in China now and Maplins have been off the ball for a couple of decades minimum.
Lawrence001
16-03-2018, 23:01
There seems to be little mention in any of the coverage about the importance of the companies' debt burdens in all the recent bankruptcies. Most of the ones going bust are or have been run by private equity. They will not finance mainly through equity as they lose too much when the firms go under. Instead they saddle their companies with debt which has to be paid every year (unlike dividends which can be restricted in loss making years) and put them above the pension fund and HMRC in the pecking order when the firm is wound up. To max out the amount they can take from the companies each year, they give them as much debt as the company can afford in good times and hope it lasts many years. As soon as conditions worsen even slightly, the plug is pulled, the investors get what's left and the taxpayer is left to pick up the bill for unpaid wages, tax due and the pension fund deficit (via the pensions lifeboat). Suppliers and store owners also go unpaid. Occasionally the investors don't get their money back but in the vast majority of cases they make it many times over in interest payments in a few years and bugger the ones who lose out when they go under. The reason they keep opening more and more branches where you can't see enough business to justify the investment is that they are milking the cash flow, any revenue is better than nothing, they might make losses on paper but they have taken the cash through the debt interest until the firm's assets fall to below liabilities and they are insolvent. The big audit firms who sign off the accounts and accept the hopeful revenue forecasts should also be liable but of course they get their fat fees while the party lasts. The whole corporate system needs to be looked at urgently as the asset strippers are getting away with murder while Joe Public are footing the bill.
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Are you allergic to paragraphs?;)
Marco.
Ninanina
16-03-2018, 23:08
Blocky... very blocky :D
Are you allergic to paragraphs?;)
Marco.
I must admit I skip over posts like that, just too hard on the eyes, so I move on . . . anyhoots, got more saving of Maplins to do :)
this also,really bugs me when folk,writeposts like this.I skip overthem too
Minstrel SE
17-03-2018, 10:16
Yes you're bonkers trying to tell Marco off if you read what's written under his name :D Marco is right to mention it.
Lawrence you make some very good points about equity firms and the way it is. I have been looking at the equity firms and it just isn't right the way things have been for a long time.
If you could edit some spacing, it does make it a much easier read. I always try to space things with a line gap because it is a heavy read in a block and it puts people off digesting it.
i found it interesting enough to read without noticing initially, but paragraphs do help
Lawrence has got it spot on, paragraphs or not. I worked for a firm that got bought out by private equity. The reason they bought us is because we were killing the firm that they already owned in the marketplace. No question of upping their game to compete, that's not what they are about. Just borrow £135 million and buy the competition, problem solved. Now they can carry on offering the same shit service to an even bigger market. Until, as Lawrence says, they finally run it into the ground and move on.
Lawrence you make some very good points about equity firms and the way it is. I have been looking at the equity firms and it just isn't right the way things have been for a long time.
If you could edit some spacing, it does make it a much easier read. I always try to space things with a line gap because it is a heavy read in a block and it puts people off digesting it.
Exactly. I wasn't telling Lawrence off, merely applying a friendly 'little dig', because as others have pointed out, condensed blocks of prose like that are difficult to read - and if you want people to read your posts, rather than just skip passed them, paragraphs are a must! :)
Marco.
Lawrence001
20-03-2018, 21:20
Sorry been busy since my earlier post, at Kegworth and back to work. Don't seem to be able to edit it now. Anyhow, I was in a bit of a rush at the time being sat on the toilet in the middle of my workday but I wanted to get it out. The rant I mean :lol:
Pigmy Pony
24-03-2018, 18:07
So, toilet text then. :)
Not healthy to be straining that long
Lawrence001
24-03-2018, 18:38
So, toilet text then. :)
Not healthy to be straining that longIt wasn't that long hence the lack of paragraphs and flow. I don't mind making sacrifices to make my posts readable but I draw the line at inducing ar$e grapes :)
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Minstrel SE
24-03-2018, 18:45
I would like to see the full accounts though. I would like to see who they are owned by and that is some pretty expensive rental space especially when the business rates went up.
Ive never seen things closing so fast round here. Even the charity shops have been closing down. I dont think the economy is recovering or doing as well as some people think. The signs are that the high street is suffering badly.
Its seems to be getting worse again and looking at the commerce around here its mainly the big players which trails off quickly to the "for let" signs and run down shop fronts. Most of the people chancing it seem to be of pension age with inheritances.
Hairdressers and fast food outlets seem to be the only thing expanding. I dont know who is buying fast food if money is tight elsewhere...it aint me :)
The high street is dying because customers want cheap goods and that usually means on-line shopping.
The high street is dying because customers want cheap goods and that usually means on-line shopping.
Yes. The high street shops would still be closing even if the economy was booming. The world is changing, like it or not. I predict even the bookmakers will be going eventually. Ten years, maybe.
Sherwood
24-03-2018, 21:58
There is no single factor in the decline of the high street retailer. Yes, the internet is partly responsible for the decline of electrical retailers. However, the range of electrical products these days is so broad, even in a single category, that there is no way that a single store could carry that much stock. People are used to wide choice, not only in terms of the product, but also the colour it comes in.
In terms of supermarkets, no small high street shop can compete with the large out of town megastores for choice or for price. Of course, these same companies have seen a niche market in so called "metro" stores, but the viability of these depends upon the economies of scale that the parent company affords.
Parking is a big issue, both in terms of price and accessibility: in some locations one can be driving around for 30 minutes or longer before finding a parking space, and then facing big charges for parking. I daresay that my village is somewhat unrepresentative in having ample free parking in the High Street. Of course, that has not stopped the closure of many stores. Only this year, a large corner street hardware store has closed after 120 years continuous trading. The cinema was lost to fire decades ago and was never replaced. Aside from a single small co-op store, a greengrocer, bakery, barber, and butcher, the village is dominated by fast food stores and so called "bargain" stores. Oh, and a bookmaker!
Geoff
TThe cinema was lost to fire decades ago and was never replaced. Aside from a single small co-op store, a greengrocer, bakery, barber, and butcher, the village is dominated by fast food stores and so called "bargain" stores. Oh, and a bookmaker!
Geoff
Supermarkets killed the butchers, bakers, grocers, greengrocers and petrol stations. The retail parks killed the small electrical and white goods stores, the toyshops, sports shops, all the remaining independents. If the cachement area is wealthy enough you'll have a specialist grocer or butcher, maybe.
But the internet will kill almost everything. At some point even the charity shops will all be solely on line. I can buy on Amazon, get it delivered next day to reception, at my desk by 1500 hrs. It's not the price, which may or may not be cheaper than a shop, it is the convenience. Why would I ever go to a shop for it? The retail parks will be next. Food will survive, clothes might survive, not much else will.
I agree there are other factors at play than just the internet. I'm arguing that the effect of the internet is so strong it makes any other factor irrelevant.
I assume you are also familiar with E.M Forster's short story, 'The Machine Stops'? ;)
Sherwood
24-03-2018, 23:00
Supermarkets killed the butchers, bakers, grocers, greengrocers and petrol stations. The retail parks killed the small electrical and white goods stores, the toyshops, sports shops, all the remaining independents. If the cachement area is wealthy enough you'll have a specialist grocer or butcher, maybe.
But the internet will kill almost everything. At some point even the charity shops will all be solely on line. I can buy on Amazon, get it delivered next day to reception, at my desk by 1500 hrs. It's not the price, which may or may not be cheaper than a shop, it is the convenience. Why would I ever go to a shop for it? The retail parks will be next. Food will survive, clothes might survive, not much else will.
I agree there are other factors at play than just the internet. I'm arguing that the effect of the internet is so strong it makes any other factor irrelevant.
I assume you are also familiar with E.M Forster's short story, 'The Machine Stops'? ;)
Not sure that I see the point you are making in referring to Forster's sci-fi novella, other than the concentration of provider power.
I think it is important to draw a distinction between the internet per se and companies like Amazon. In many respects, Amazon is nothing more than a modern variant on Sears Roebuck which took advantage of improvements in communications in 19th century America (i.e. rail and postal systems) to market a catalogue and mail order facility that is very similar to Amazon today. By creating and dominating the mail order industry, Sears Roebuck established a market lead which it was able to maintain for decades. Amazon has achieved the same, but I do not think it will retain its market dominance for so long, and I am surprised that US anti-trust mechanisms have not yet been employed to restrain its market dominance. Perhaps this is because Amazon represents a concentration of retailing power rather than manufacturing power. Of course, eBay represents a different model. It is more an intermediary than Amazon, serving to link sellers with buyers, and has not gone the route of Amazon of setting up its own warehouses and distribution systems.
Sears Roebuck eventually evolved into a physical rather than "virtual" retailer and its stores remain a feature of most sizeable US shopping malls today. It is not inconceivable to me that Amazon might follow a similar path in the future.
Geoff
Not sure that I see the point you are making in referring to Forster's sci-fi novella, other than the concentration of provider power.
I think it is important to draw a distinction between the internet per se and companies like Amazon. In many respects, Amazon is nothing more than a modern variant on Sears Roebuck which took advantage of improvements in communications in 19th century America (i.e. rail and postal systems) to market a catalogue and mail order facility that is very similar to Amazon today. By creating and dominating the mail order industry, Sears Roebuck established a market lead which it was able to maintain for decades. Amazon has achieved the same, but I do not think it will retain its market dominance for so long, and I am surprised that US anti-trust mechanisms have not yet been employed to restrain its market dominance. Perhaps this is because Amazon represents a concentration of retailing power rather than manufacturing power. Of course, eBay represents a different model. It is more an intermediary than Amazon, serving to link sellers with buyers, and has not gone the route of Amazon of setting up its own warehouses and distribution systems.
Sears Roebuck eventually evolved into a physical rather than "virtual" retailer and its stores remain a feature of most sizeable US shopping malls today. It is not inconceivable to me that Amazon might follow a similar path in the future.
Geoff
You sort of got my point with the Forster reference but I was referring to the internet in general rather than Amazon specifically. If their business model proves successful in the long term you can bet that competitors will emerge. Okay, we both know it is little more than fortune telling, but we can rely on these things always finding their own level at some point.
The comparison with Sears is anachronistic I think. I'd say that if the internet had been around when Sears started would they have used that or stuck to the coupons? Buying mail order was often more hassle than just going to the shop and buying it. The main lure was that you could pay on tick. But that was before pretty much anyone could get a credit card.
The internet is a whole different ballgame. There are going to be a lot of unintended consequences.
The retail parks will be next. Food will survive, clothes might survive, not much else will.
Not really convinced ..
It's all too easy to say virtual shopping is killing off the 'real' experience but for all the big name closures over the last few years (roughly since Woolworths's demise), other big chains have opened that were unheard of before.
In our local retail parks it's been Primark, The Range, Home Sense, Home Bargains and (opening soon) Hobbycraft that have taken over the vacated slots. All of these characterised by giving 'cheap and cheerful' a new allure - and all always busy when we've been in.
BHS, Toys R Us and Maplins typify the old garde ... over priced and jaded - not surprised to see the back of them.
Just waiting for some new blood to wipe away Currys/PC World ... another pricey waste of space.
That's now, though. I'm talking ten, fifteen years down the line maybe. Although it could happen faster than that. Larger companies are struggling to keep up as it is. There's a whole new generation out there who regard buying on the internet as normal and going to a physical shop as unusual, except for clothes and food. It's demographics, each year those generations who would never dream of buying on line are dying off. Added to that I know some elderly people who get the youngsters to do it for them. It's easier and it is often cheaper. They get that and it works for them.
if the Amazon model does not work out long term, who knows where it will go. It's fortune telling. But given the demand for housing I'm expecting most of the high streets in all the poorer areas to become mostly residential in the next ten years.
The street that joins to mine used to be a secondary high street. Chip shop, barber, electrical goods shop, newsagent, grocer, sandwich shop, tailor, general store, pub, car showroom, and a couple of other places I don't remember now. Only a handful are left. For the others you can see where they have bricked up the shop front and turned it into a house.
That trend is going to expand, is my Mystic-Meg style prediction.
Amazon have go shops in USA and are bringing them here for food. No queuing or using a till. Smart shopping it's called
Sherwood
25-03-2018, 00:13
You sort of got my point with the Forster reference but I was referring to the internet in general rather than Amazon specifically. If their business model proves successful in the long term you can bet that competitors will emerge. Okay, we both know it is little more than fortune telling, but we can rely on these things always finding their own level at some point.
The comparison with Sears is anachronistic I think. I'd say that if the internet had been around when Sears started would they have used that or stuck to the coupons? Buying mail order was often more hassle than just going to the shop and buying it. The main lure was that you could pay on tick. But that was before pretty much anyone could get a credit card.
The internet is a whole different ballgame. There are going to be a lot of unintended consequences.
Hardly, if you were out in some pokey frontier town or rural hamlet in Pokeytown, Nowheresville! The catalogue and free to the door delivery (facilitated through the US Postal Service free rural delivery initiative) made it more cost-effective and convenient than going into the local general store in town. Amazon is very much in the mould of Sears Roebuck albeit separated by more than a century.
Geoff
Sherwood
25-03-2018, 00:14
Amazon have go shops in USA and are bringing them here for food. No queuing or using a till. Smart shopping it's called
I wasn't aware of this so I guess I am more prophetic than I realised! :doh:
We've got a Wholefoods (Amazon owned) on our high street. Pricey and very good quality, but one thing you do have to do is queue, there's always a queue.
I agree with Macca, most high streets are doomed until business rates are slashed, and that isn't going to occur any time soon. Of course some chains and boutique offerings will survive, but boarded shop windows are a feature everywhere these days.
More of a worry than obsolete business models going under is what is the next generation going to do for work? We're in a rush to make the technology that will render our skills and hence utility redundant. What is the vision for them?
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Hardly, if you were out in some pokey frontier town or rural hamlet in Pokeytown, Nowheresville! The catalogue and free to the door delivery (facilitated through the US Postal Service free rural delivery initiative) made it more cost-effective and convenient than going into the local general store in town. Amazon is very much in the mould of Sears Roebuck albeit separated by more than a century.
Geoff
Yes but my point is that environment doesn't exist anymore. Amazon/internet retaining in general is not the same as Sears in 1911 or whatever. The methods of selection, delivery and payment are completely different and in terms of ease and convenience they far surpass anything seen previously. And the most lucrative slice of the customer base have substantially different priorities to someone in a frontier town at the turn of the last century.
The comparison with Sears is loose one.
Also given that food is one of the few things that is unlikely to move solely on line it does sort of make sense that Amazon would want to get into the retail food sector too. Always make sure you are harvesting every sector you can. Look out for the Amazon Hair and Beauty Parlours opening near you.
There's a whole new generation out there who regard buying on the internet as normal and going to a physical shop as unusual,
Agree with the first bit - completely disagree with the second. You underestimate the social power of the 'real' shopping experience - and that includes it's impact on the 'new generation' (who still flood our high street as soon as school is done for the day and every weekend).
The nature of 'shops' and what they offer (and for how much) is changing radically but the urge to throng, see and be seen will remain. The winners will be those who know how to tap into that, which will never include the list of vendors you mentioned with their quaint 20th century concepts.
Of course all of this is moot re. employability; at some point the problems with Flippy the Burger Flipper will be sorted .. and we will all be doomed .... :lol:
Almost every time a shop closes in Staines (upon Thames) a restaurant or fast-food outlet opens up in it's place. The future is ......... EATING!
spendorman
25-03-2018, 09:04
Many decades ago I used to visit an electronics shop in London Road Southend, think this may have been the first Maplins, can anybody confirm, or otherwise?
Minstrel SE
25-03-2018, 13:23
In a way its interesting to see the shops come and go. When I say I will give a new shop six months I am usually right.
Town centres are not developing fast enough into a places I want to keep visiting. I dont particularly want to go to a restaurant on a grotty high street.
They need to develop into a mix of living space, natural features and business premesis. If that means knocking down rows of old shops then so be it. Its also a mix of a greedy landlords who have no real forward looking plans or wish to spend anything much. Its time those parasites felt the pinch until we have areas that people really want to thong to.
In most cases I havent enjoyed walking round shops for a long time now. I dont think I ever really did. I just want the thing bought and the internet is great for shopping. I dont need to put up with limited stock and the BS from small shop owners anymore. In most cases they add nothing to the shopping experience but over inflated prices.
I am very careful where I spend my money now and I wont put up with the poor service and staff at Currys for example. Its a nice feeling knowing I will never shop there again as long as I live. Halfords was a vacuous experience the other day and I was just browsing their rapidy diminishing stock levels
I dont buy big things on the net so I will need physical :) shops for that. High street shops are in trouble and they need to step up their game
Im not sure if some ever can though. There is a local guy selling vinyl. I really want to like him because he is local but he has a slighly abrupt manner and he never really has anything in stock that I ask for. Oh he can get it but sometimes £10 more than its on the internet for. He has no real value to me as a shop so I stopped going. If I know the vinyl will be safely packaged the internet wins every time
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