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electric beach
08-03-2010, 17:00
From his comments on the Scalford Hall day, Beechwood wrote:

"Biggest revelations this year? Pluggin in my Nak to the mains distribution block completely spoilt the sound we were getting, til it went into the filtered supply. It certainly demonstrated the benefits of mains conditioning, and just goes to show that seemingly innocuous additions to a system can have a majorly profound affect. Then again... sticking everything through the conditioner was also detrimental! Isolating the sources (digital, mainly) from the amplification was the thing. There's science to it - impedance matching if I remember Anthony rightly..."

Can we speak more of this?
I have always lived in a poor mains area and consequently buy into the importance of mains treatments wholeheartedly.
I have made dedicated service to my system in the past but on balance I didn't find it worthwhile; not ineffective but the improvement for me at the time was a poor return. I use an earth spike and barely hear the difference, but it stays in the system in a 'belt & braces' way.

I have invested in a Vertex Taga distribution unit and a Jaya unit, designed to address the issue of mains and cable transferred vibrations. They are of the passive type and personally I find they enhance rather than squash dynamics, as is often commented of mains treatments.

These have been highly effective at:
1. making the system more musically accessable
2. delivering an easier and relaxed (but not un-dynamic) presentation at higher volumes
3. giving a rewarding experience and a more organic sound at all hours of whichever day (Saturdays used to be a no-no)




HOWEVER, the system still sounds better - sometimes waaay better, from about 10.00pm onwards, so there's still more to be done. It seems that the soundstage becomes more 3-Dimensional, the frequency range more balanced, instrument tone more defined, background blacker and treble sweeter, etc, etc. We sit there enthralled, saying "now that's how we want it to sound!"

The Taga is a 6 socket unit and I use the Jaya to seperate the Transport (socket 1) from the Dac (socket 3) and then Preamp, Power amp and finally the REL sub. I'll try putting it between the Dac and Preamp but I'd like to know more about how Anthony's unit is intended to be used and whether it's of a design that would compliment the Vertex equipment. Is this idea of seperating digital / analgue applicable to any seperate mains distribution or only in the context of this particular filter.

Ali Tait
08-03-2010, 17:53
May be worth trying a balanced supply if your mains is bad,it may help matters.

Snoopdog
08-03-2010, 20:01
Perhaps something like this.........
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/crystalref/Elbrus3.jpg
I have used the Elbrus Point3 balanced PSU in my system (source components only) for over a year and the sound is much more refined than straight out of the wall.
I now have it hooked up to a dedicated CU supply and it does isolate the digital stuff nicely from the preamp and turntable/phono stage.
The two 'straight through' unlimited outlets benefit from built in Silver Jayas and this also minimises a slight residual hum on my CJ power amp which is sensitive to mains voltage fluctuations.
I agree with your above comments about the audible benefits to a system of putting this type of Vertex passive mains distribution in circuit although I was also very impressed with Martin T's PS Audio PPP which powers his system.

electric beach
08-03-2010, 20:35
Perhaps something like this.........
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/crystalref/Elbrus3.jpg
I have used the Elbrus Point3 balanced PSU in my system (source components only) for over a year and the sound is much more refined than straight out of the wall.
I now have it hooked up to a dedicated CU supply and it does isolate the digital stuff nicely from the preamp and turntable/phono stage.
The two 'straight through' unlimited outlets benefit from built in Silver Jayas and this also minimises a slight residual hum on my CJ power amp which is sensitive to mains voltage fluctuations.
I agree with your above comments about the audible benefits to a system of putting this type of Vertex passive mains distribution in circuit although I was also very impressed with Martin T's PS Audio PPP which powers his system.


Oh, you lucky dog!

A second vote for seperating digital (or is that source maybe, I'm only digital) from amplification then.

The Vertex dealer also recommended putting the Jaya betwixt the CD transport and everything else.

John
08-03-2010, 21:14
I live in poor mains area. Balanced mains works well for me I no longer notice difference late at night

electric beach
09-03-2010, 09:41
I live in poor mains area. Balanced mains works well for me I no longer notice difference late at night

So how did you achieve the balanced mains, John and at what kind of cost?

DSJR
09-03-2010, 16:43
PLEASE could someone (John) itemise the costs of these things?

I am so lucky living here, as the mains is good and the only sonic change I have is the CD player getting "louder" and less "squashed" sounding after a couple of hours or so powered up. Neither the Dual nor either of my two preamps take much time to stabilise.

I *do* still use Roxburgh 6A filters (Chord Co Clearway) on the CD player and turntable (available for £40 each from farnell UK) and the IEC distribution blocks are fed via a Mark Grant mains lead. The pre and power amps are wired directly to the block - Marco and Steve T would have a fit....

Joe
09-03-2010, 17:04
I *do* still use Roxburgh 6A filters (Chord Co Clearway) on the CD player and turntable (available for £40 each from farnell UK) and the IEC distribution blocks are fed via a Mark Grant mains lead. The pre and power amps are wired directly to the block - Marco and Steve T would have a fit....

Are your cables touching the walls?

Steve Toy
09-03-2010, 17:59
I *do* still use Roxburgh 6A filters (Chord Co Clearway) on the CD player and turntable (available for £40 each from farnell UK) and the IEC distribution blocks are fed via a Mark Grant mains lead. The pre and power amps are wired directly to the block - Marco and Steve T would have a fit....



Why would we?

Someone hasn't been paying attention at the back ;)

Hard wiring directly into a distribution block is probably not detrimental in terms of coupling your equipment to unwanted sources of vibration. What you don't want to be doing is plugging or hard wiring anything directly into a wall socket. A distribution block placed on the floor or preferably on a stand serves to decouple your equipment from wall vibrations.

Steve Toy
09-03-2010, 18:04
Joe, the rat's nest apologists obviously have 'er indoors to consider ;). Moving your rack further into the room by a couple of inches tends to solve the problem.

"What's a couple of inches?" You may ask her.

"Everything my dear! :eyebrows:" will be the answer.

Ali Tait
09-03-2010, 18:22
This company will do you a 230:115+115 balanced transformer-

http://www.jmsonline.co.uk/?gclid=CPjSvPmjrKACFaFi4wodQVxHqQ

John
09-03-2010, 18:38
You can get Industrial Balanced mains units quite cheaply mot sure how good they are
http://www.airlinktransformers.com/balanced-power-supplies.asp
I use MAD balanced mains transformer which is about £1300 and weighs a ton; all the weight in the transformer which is massive
Russ Andrew charge about double that price
http://www.madengland.com/catalog.power.php I use No5
I have no idea of differences if any between these 3 makes; just to say I would not get rid of mine. This makes a difference even with a seperate power supply and dedicated earth
I used 10mm cable. My room has its own consummer unit and JPS mains cable to mains socket. The mains socket is without on/off switches.
My advice around this is to talk to your electrician about what you hoping to get and follow any advice they give.
Steve dedicated Earth thread had loads of great infomation

MartinT
11-03-2010, 21:29
I agree with your above comments about the audible benefits to a system of putting this type of Vertex passive mains distribution in circuit although I was also very impressed with Martin T's PS Audio PPP which powers his system.

I haven't heard Steve's Vertex unit but I am a firm believer in regenerated mains. The PS Audio Powerplant Premier has five isolated (from each other) outputs and powers my entire system, including power amp. It certainly enhances dynamics and gives a very low noise floor. I paid £1499 but I believe it now costs £1799.

electric beach
12-03-2010, 10:52
The Taga is a 6 socket unit and I use the Jaya to seperate the Transport (socket 1) from the Dac (socket 3) and then Preamp, Power amp and finally the REL sub. I'll try putting it between the Dac and Preamp but I'd like to know more about how Anthony's unit is intended to be used and whether it's of a design that would compliment the Vertex equipment. Is this idea of seperating digital / analgue applicable to any seperate mains distribution or only in the context of this particular filter.

Thanks all, for the info and comments on balanced mains, it's not an area that I knew much about before. At this apparent price level it's something for the future for me, I've a couple of outstanding issues to sort first (namely upgraded speaker crossovers and three more Mark Grant cables to give me a coherent cable loom).

Just a follow-up and an answer to my own question; I moved the Sub's mains supply from the common Taga distribution unit, fearing that a lot of vibration would be travelling back up the mains cable to it. I also moved the Jaya filter from between the transport and dac, to seperate the dac and the preamp/poweramp. This made a great improvement to the musical connection and the definition of the soundstage. Putting it between the dac and preamp didn't seem to sit well at all (sometimes you need to go past the limit to find where that limit lies)

Having just read the post on the Scalford Hall thread about the Hugh Masekela album Hope, I played Stimela. Then the whole album - sublime. It's a work that I know well but it struck me for the first time that this actually took place in quite an intimate venue - an honesty to the acoustic and the resulting quality of the applause echo brought it to my attention.

I'm very happy to have discovered an improvement through 'housekeeping' from the comments about the TD mains filter, but I don't understand how it works or why it is suitable for some kit and not others, therefore cannot begin to consider if getting one would be a logical development for me.

Thanks again for the info and experiences.

Ali Tait
12-03-2010, 21:08
Steve,it's fairly cheap if you go for an industrial type unit.Ok,it's not in a fancy hardwood box with a nice granite plinth,but it will do just the same job,honest! There's no magic involved,as long as the transformer is correctly specced and will supply adequate current with a decent margin,Bob is indeed your relative!

Hint-The fancy audiophile ones have the same trannie inside.:)

sondale
05-04-2010, 09:59
I recently had fitted the Airlink 5KV balanced transformer - not too much money - BUT - it has to be fitted by a qualified electrician and a seperate Earth has to be fitted i.e. one of those that is sunk into the ground and kept wet (not hard in the UK).

I had this done when my distribution box and lots of other wiring was being done - so I cannot say how much that part of the work cost.

It certainly gets rid of all the rubbish that was on the mains - even my Sky HD box has become quiet(er).

Ali Tait
05-04-2010, 10:04
What's it done for the sound?