Equipment Cones, Spikes, Feet and Pads.

[walpurgis]

For those who wish to experiment with equipment spikes or cones. There seems to be confusion sometimes. Cones and spikes do not isolate or decouple (pick your term), they do the opposite and complete a rigid physical circuit. In other words, solidly couple equipment to whatever it is stood upon.

If you want to 'isolate', use pads of compliant material like Sorbothane or use feet that rely on springs for a similar effect. Although most spring feet have no damping, Sorbothane does self damp, which can be beneficial. Feet that contain rubber also offer some internal damping.

The choice of items to stand equipment on is huge, so pick carefully.

[struth]

Levitating magnets isolate but only in one dimension

[walpurgis]

Levitating magnets isolate but only in one dimension

Yes. They replicate the effect of mechanical, metal spring devices, but without friction (if designed right).

There is a way for them to work horizontally as well as vertically. Requires a lot of magnets. I have thoughts about a magnetically levitating turntable plinth. Not experimented yet though.

[struth]

quite liked mine on the suspended tt.

[Macca]

Only speakers and turntables need isolating, waste of time with anything else. There's a great demo video from (I think) the RMAF where they are using a laptop as a source and the laptop is 'isolated' on Stillpoint spikes. Always cracks me up.

[struth]

Only speakers and turntables need isolating, waste of time with anything else. There's a great demo video from (I think) the RMAF where they are using a laptop as a source and the laptop is 'isolated' on Stillpoint spikes. Always cracks me up.

needs it on glass imo. or hollow surfaces

[Shovel_Knight]

I use sorbothane pads under my external hard drive (which houses my lossless audio collection). Otherwise it vibrates quite noticeably, especially when just spinning up.

[walpurgis]

Only speakers and turntables need isolating, waste of time with anything else.

Not necessarily. I find chunky Sorbothane pads under my DAC and CD player definitely help. Difficult to describe how, but having experimented, it's an audible improvement.

[struth]

Not necessarily. I find chunky Sorbothane pads under my DAC and CD player definitely help. Difficult to describe how, but having experimented, it's an audible improvement.

got my oppo on sorbothane pads.. tt has its own fancy feet and they are on slate, then little rubber discs then onto the hollow table...lol

[Macca]

Not necessarily. I find chunky Sorbothane pads under my DAC and CD player definitely help. Difficult to describe how, but having experimented, it's an audible improvement.

There's a bloke who did test this by measuring the output of amps, DACs and transports while subjecting them to vibration. There was no change in the output whatsoever. Which is what you'd expect. Having said that I have in the past experimented in this area, various different supports for CD players and amps, and thought I could detect differences, albeit so marginal that I think it unlikely they were real.

[The Black Adder]

Hmm.. it can be confusing. Even some manufacturers don't seem to know the difference either.

[Gazjam]

Hit your equipment with a sock covered hammer whilst hooked up to an oscilloscope.
Any changes?
:)

Good info Geoff in your first post.

[maxrob200]

Made some cast iron feet to put under my valve amplifier. There was an audible difference to the overall sound.

[alphaGT]

Microphonics on tubed equipment is a known source of distortion. However small it may be. Back in the 50’s the tubed electronics in the nose of jet planes were going haywire due to the vibrations of the plane. Readouts in the dash were jumping all over the place, so they invented dampened, spring loaded mounts for the electronics to stop this problem. And it worked. Hopefully your stereo isn’t jumping like a jet plane! But it does prove that it is possible for air born vibrations to affect your sensitive gear.

Russell

[maxrob200]

The great thing is that the DIY feet made more improvements than some expensive isolation cones that I had from a previous system. I read about the dampening properties of high carbon cast iron (which is the cheapest cast iron type). Cast iron plates are used to dampen vibrations in factory machinery and some high end stands and isolation device vendors are now using cast iron in their components.
Being a cheapskate I used some cast iron trolley wheels, removed the bolts and they became feet! The wood discs are furniture castors.
All up Aud$20 for a worthwhile experiment

[bumpy]

There's a bloke who did test this by measuring the output of amps, DACs and transports while subjecting them to vibration. There was no change in the output whatsoever.

But we all know that many qualities of sound cannot be measured, merely heard and enjoyed.

[YNWaN]

A friend once designed a valve phonostage that was so microphonic you could hear people speaking in the same room! However, as with a lot of valve gear, it was the valves themselves that were microphonic, changing what it was sat on didn’t stop this and they were picking up vibrations directly from the air. Of course, most valve gear is nothing like as microphonic as this.

[Svend N]

The great thing is that the DIY feet made more improvements than some expensive isolation cones that I had from a previous system. I read about the dampening properties of high carbon cast iron (which is the cheapest cast iron type). Cast iron plates are used to dampen vibrations in factory machinery and some high end stands and isolation device vendors are now using cast iron in their components.
Being a cheapskate I used some cast iron trolley wheels, removed the bolts and they became feet! The wood discs are furniture castors.
All up Aud$20 for a worthwhile experiment

Great tip on the trolley wheels Alex. Thanks for sharing that.

[Macca]

But we all know that many qualities of sound cannot be measured, merely heard and enjoyed.

The more I get into this hobby the more I think that probably isn't true. I mean we can all tell a poor sounding system from a good one. But once the sound is good it starts being more a matter of personal choice and psychology. A lot of psychology. The one exception to that is imaging. Some good systems image absolutely unbelievably well, and some don't. But I think the reasons for that are verifiable and have nothing to do with whether or not you have isolated your laptop with stillpoints.

I go to the odd show and you see these systems with racks costing several grand, isolation platforms and feet under everything, cable lifters, the works. And the sound is poor. Then you go in another room where they have used none of that, just plonked it all on a table and hooked it up. And it sounds great.

I should have added valve components to my list of things that will benefit from isolation from vibration, bit of an oversight on my part there. When I had a valve phono stage I did use some Audio Technica sprung feet under it. Although I couldn't tell the difference and if I didn't already have the feet (part of a job-lot eBay purchase) I wouldn't have gone out and got any.

[walpurgis]

I know what you mean. You can tour a Hi-Fi show and hear lots of set-ups that sound accurate, detailed and revealing with no nasties. But occasionally you visit a stand or room where the music comes to life. The difference is very obvious and few displaying makers seem to achieve this. Amongst others, I recall experiencing this at displays by Avant Garde, Spendor, C R Developments and of course Tannoy (even though the TD series I heard years ago was a bit grim.

[alphaGT]

The more I get into this hobby the more I think that probably isn't true. I mean we can all tell a poor sounding system from a good one. But once the sound is good it starts being more a matter of personal choice and psychology. A lot of psychology. The one exception to that is imaging. Some good systems image absolutely unbelievably well, and some don't. But I think the reasons for that are verifiable and have nothing to do with whether or not you have isolated your laptop with stillpoints.

I go to the odd show and you see these systems with racks costing several grand, isolation platforms and feet under everything, cable lifters, the works. And the sound is poor. Then you go in another room where they have used none of that, just plonked it all on a table and hooked it up. And it sounds great.

I should have added valve components to my list of things that will benefit from isolation from vibration, bit of an oversight on my part there. When I had a valve phono stage I did use some Audio Technica sprung feet under it. Although I couldn't tell the difference and if I didn't already have the feet (part of a job-lot eBay purchase) I wouldn't have gone out and got any.

I agree, if there is something seriously wrong with the way a system sounds, no amount of cords or vibration control is going to sort it out. I got into it with someone on another forum about this, a man said he had a woefully underpowered amp driving some giant speakers, and wanted to know if there was a tweak that could make it work! Someone suggested that an expensive power cord would fix it, I begged to differ. Name calling ensued.

The sound of any system needs to be intrinsically right before you can appreciate the small benefits that tweaks can bring. I have yet to hear any tweak that made, “Night and Day”, differences.

Russell

[Marco]

Only speakers and turntables need isolating, waste of time with anything else.

I beg to differ, and experience proves it. Why else do you think that my CDP, DAC, preamp and power amp sit on 15 levels of Mana?

You know me, I don't use anything unless to my ears it works, and so I can assure you that my system would sound notably worse (especially housed in the relatively small room it's in with a suspended wooden floor), if those items weren't being so effectively supported on said stands :)

Marco.

[Marco]

I go to the odd show and you see these systems with racks costing several grand, isolation platforms and feet under everything, cable lifters, the works. And the sound is poor. Then you go in another room where they have used none of that, just plonked it all on a table and hooked it up. And it sounds great.


And was that room the same, in terms of dimensions and acoustics, the system and ancillaries the same, and the music played the same, in order for you to draw a meaningful conclusion on the effectiveness or otherwise of said items you're completely dismissing?

Don't get me wrong, I've heard the very same thing at shows from the types of systems you mention.

However, not even the most effective supports/isolation and/or decoupling devices can override expensive equipment that flatters to deceive [such as is the case with overpriced 'badge-fi'], plus you can over-egg the pudding with the use of the former, especially if it's been designed to dampen vibration, and then suck the life out of the music.

I'd suggest a combination of both as being as likely a reason as any, as to why the systems in question you heard sounded so poor.

Marco.

[Beobloke]

I beg to differ, and experience proves it. Why else do you think that my CDP, DAC, preamp and power amp sit on 15 levels of Mana?


I always assumed it was because you are tall and to save you having to bend down so much... :D

[Marco]

Lol - that's definitely one of the reasons, plus having everything up so high certainly helps with 'cable dressing' and getting all of the cables up off the floor and neatly arranged, as unlike most, I can access the back of all my gear relatively easily and ensure that the cables don't look like a rats nest! :eyebrows:

Keeping signal cables well away from mains cables also helps improve the sound, and is another example in audio of 'good practice' :)

Marco.

[brucew268]

Solid state definitely are effected by vibration, sometimes obviously, sometimes rather subtly. When I built a simple buffer preamp, which sounds excellent by the way, the sound was changed with each of the following changes, the first two unsubtly and the last more with more mixed results:

Changing nylon PCB standoffs for brass ones
Adding different amount of bitumen damping to the lid
Different footings: steel cones, wood cones, basic rubber feet, sorbothane feet, low pressure bicycle inner tube, ball bearings in cups.

For footings: the coupling feet definitely changed the sound but for the worse, emphasizing some frequencies at the expense of others, often a bit harsh in lower treble. The absorbing feet were more subtle but the inner tube gave the greatest benefit, but it's fiddly as it tends to lose air every couple weeks. Combo of inner tubes (vertical) and ball bearings (horizontal absorption) gave the greatest result but are rather fiddly and still a bit subtle compared to the effect on my laptop (with spinning HDD and fan).

Of course the apparent effect of isolation on the laptop could have been because it was on the same shelf as the DAC whose analog stage could have been picking up the vibration from the laptop.

[maxrob200]

Maybe a small Whoopee cushion :)

[alphaGT]

Solid state definitely are effected by vibration, sometimes obviously, sometimes rather subtly. When I built a simple buffer preamp, which sounds excellent by the way, the sound was changed with each of the following changes, the first two unsubtly and the last more with more mixed results:

Changing nylon PCB standoffs for brass ones
Adding different amount of bitumen damping to the lid
Different footings: steel cones, wood cones, basic rubber feet, sorbothane feet, low pressure bicycle inner tube, ball bearings in cups.

For footings: the coupling feet definitely changed the sound but for the worse, emphasizing some frequencies at the expense of others, often a bit harsh in lower treble. The absorbing feet were more subtle but the inner tube gave the greatest benefit, but it's fiddly as it tends to lose air every couple weeks. Combo of inner tubes (vertical) and ball bearings (horizontal absorption) gave the greatest result but are rather fiddly and still a bit subtle compared to the effect on my laptop (with spinning HDD and fan).

Of course the apparent effect of isolation on the laptop could have been because it was on the same shelf as the DAC whose analog stage could have been picking up the vibration from the laptop.

Have you heard of a company called Cloud 9? They make isolation platforms for record players, but I’m sure you could make something similar for your amp? Basically, two particle board shelves, with rubber balls in between. Perhaps handballs, or tennis balls? Drill a small dimple to keep them in place, and the band around the top half keeps it from sliding off.

Russell

[brucew268]

Is that the Cloud 9 series made by Gingko? It looks like perhaps they've taken the squash ball and fashioned a nicely finished stable platform for them. Prices seem a bit high for them if that's what they've done, unless they've had the balls made bespoke to their own specifications. Nice that they've included some resonant frequency information, though the weight-to-frequency data is a bit sparse.

[brucew268]

Gingko's explanation (https://www.ginkgoaudio.com/platformula/)of ball configuration tends to support my theory about softer(isolation) vs harder(coupling) materials in the other thread in the Artist's Pallette (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?57373-Reflections-Isolation-coupling-decoupling-speakers-gt-flooring-components-gt-racks).

[maxrob200]

Gingko's explanation (https://www.ginkgoaudio.com/platformula/)of ball configuration tends to support my theory about softer(isolation) vs harder(coupling) materials in the other thread in the Artist's Pallette (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?57373-Reflections-Isolation-coupling-decoupling-speakers-gt-flooring-components-gt-racks).

The good old squash balls have been used as isolation platforms for decades...and it does work for some components. You can tune to desired resonance by trying the different bounce rates available for them - red, orange, green, white, yellow and double yellow

[brucew268]

The good old squash balls have been used as isolation platforms for decades...and it does work for some components. You can tune to desired resonance by trying the different bounce rates available for them - red, orange, green, white, yellow and double yellowYes, but I'm curious whether even the softest can get down below 20Hz. I notice with my inner tubes that if they have any more air than enough to be just suspended, it is up messing with the musical frequency bands.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[jahsavage]

I have a degree in Electronics but the more I spend tinkering with Hi-Fi the more I find unbelievable. In the past I would laugh out loud at anyone spending large sums on cables or support devices but when you can clearly demonstrate the effects then you have to acknowledge it and change your position.

So does vibration have any effect on the sound? The truth is that the effect is profound, for example moving components in an magnetic or electrostatic field will induce voltages in an unpredictable manner, this affects valves amps as much as transistor devices. Guitar amps for example cover their circuit boards in resin to reduce the effects of vibration. As regards Hi-Fi the more transparent your system the more noticeable the effects. Through my fiddling I've been astonished by the improvements you can achieve by using slate, ceramic bearings and thrust bearings.

[Macca]

I can see how vibration might be an issue with a component that uses valves but the tests have been done and you can introduce a lot of vibration to solid state components and their measured output remains identical.

I also wonder how much vibration electronic components get subjected to in aircraft, military vehicles, or racing cars. Where they need to work all the time and be accurate all the time. They still seem to work fine unless the vibration is severe enough to cause physical damage to them.

[Barry]

I can see how vibration might be an issue with a component that uses valves but the tests have been done and you can introduce a lot of vibration to solid state components and their measured output remains identical.

I also wonder how much vibration electronic components get subjected to in aircraft, military vehicles, or racing cars. Where they need to work all the time and be accurate all the time. They still seem to work fine unless the vibration is severe enough to cause physical damage to them.

Careful - you will cause some to doubt the efficacy of 'cable lifters', cryocooling, demagnetising CDs, or the hi-fi equivalent of feng shui'. ;)

[alphaGT]

I looked up the Cloud 9 on Google, and yes it appears the company has been bought by Ginko. And now they’ve got Cloud 10, 11, and 12.

I agree they are overpriced. But what isn’t in audio? It would be quite easy for anyone with access to a wood shop to make their own. And I do believe they are squash balls. The website makes claims of 11 Hz, I think? I forget what vibrations from foot falls are? Something down there around 8 to 10Hz? If nothing else it at least sounds believable. I’ve been wanting to build one for years, maybe I’ll get to it this Summer.

My old record player, an entry level Pro-Ject, had motor noise. If you moved the tonearm above the record’s surface, as you got closer to the label you could hear the motor through the stereo. The biggest reason I upgraded to a better ‘table. Apparently the inexpensive motor was giving off magnetic fields?

Magnetic fields are often responsible for electronic noise. Vibration isolation may help many things, but physical isolation can help too. My guitar amp is in my closet, 12 feet from from my stereo. If my guitar is setting near my stereo, approximately 4 feet in front of the stereo, the stereo remains silent, but my bass amp buzzes very plainly. It’s amazing just how black the backgrounds are on the stereo, if it’s broadcasting such a large magnetic field?

Russell

[jahsavage]

I can see how vibration might be an issue with a component that uses valves but the tests have been done and you can introduce a lot of vibration to solid state components and their measured output remains identical.

Lets start with cross overs which live inside loudspeakers, they are subject to large sound pressures depending upon how loud you play your music. Kevin Scott of LV has had his cross overs in a separate box to avoid these issues. Clarity ESA audiophile capacitors are specially manufactured to reduce resonances due to vibration. At the end of the day your best measuring tool is your ears you just need a convincing demonstration.

We all wish to improve the sound of our systems, dealing with vibrations is one of the cheaper ways this can be achieved. I'll summarize my approach when I find some time.

[jahsavage]

My system is half located on a Finite Elemente Pagola table with power amps on the floor. The table is probably a good starting point but I'm not attributing any magic to it.
Several years ago I was curious about the reported effects of still-points but being a cheapskate I looked for a cheaper alternative. So I did some research and realized that steel-points were effectively just thrust bearings. I noticed our Chinese friends were selling them very cheaply on ebay so I purchased a few to see if they had any effect. I started with some smaller ones and immediately noticed a huge improvement when I placed them under my slate blocks. I was also experimenting with the larger bearings which had a dramatic effect but seem to overloaded the system with bass. Next I discovered I could buy white ceramic bearings on ebay which I used to replaced steel bearings in the alloy supports. The ceramic bearings really cleaned up the Hi-Fi image and cured the heavy bass issue. This allowed me to re-insert the large thrust bearings so they could work their magic.

All my components sit on slate bases of either 20mm or 25mm thick, the slate is supported on ceramic bearings and each component is located upon a Chinese thrust bearing of size 51217 (85x125x31), so side-wise and vertical vibrations are dealt with.

The real magic here is performed by the 51217 bearing, by using just one under a pre-amp it transformed a dealers system from good to magical (Universum Horn speakers, Dynasty Fortissimo, Audio Detail Preamp/Dac)

So whats going on – not 100% sure but who cares?

Costs: ~£35 for a 51217 bearing
Ceramic Bearings: £10 each
Alloy Supports: ~£80 for four with the steel bearing
Slate : £140 including smoothed edges

my support equipment (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MQzf9kvgRSoZlQHySFB-htxyTSU8M0pr)
Rotating Amplifiers (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1LU9f2AkEMYEmf2AC770mtLSVE2Y48g6X)
Supported Preamp (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tf02d2aMIew_iCZ2H-KycQhFKeN1IXWA)

That should be enough to get the tongues wagging!

[Primalsea]

I have read in scientific papers that 70% of electronics failures are down to vibration. This information wasn’t cited, so I wouldn’t asume it is totally accurate and personally I think sustained heat is a big issue as well. More specifically in aviation generally 20% of electronic failures are due to vibration and humidty. Reading between the lines I think it is safe to say that quite a few failures are due to vibration in electronic equipment generally.

Mechanical stresses and vibration is an issue with aircraft. Every few years passenger aircraft have all external paint stripped off and thorough NDT inspections for micro cracking. Avionics systems are protected with vibration isolating mounts.

So vibration is an issue with electronic items but only when the circumstances cause a physical change. It is hard to understand why various isolation or coupling products would have any effect if they do not have any effect on the physical properties of equipment. I think that it more common than you’d expect for some euipment to be excited to resonance which will cause a change that will eventually lead to failure of components and this will effect the performance.

So I’m saying that it is not impossible that some form of isolation or mounting to have an effect and its more common that some people may think, but it is no where near as common as marketing departments and salesmen wil have people believe. I do agree with Martin that psycology fuelled by marketing has a big part to play.

Another thng to consider is that if you have a rack with your TT on the top and other items on the shelves below changing the way the other equipmented in connected to the rack will have an effect on how the rack as a whole is effected by vibrations and this could effect the TT. My very heavy TT sits on a very heavy unit and yet I can still feel vibrations sometimes when music is playing and not that loudly either.

So, I guess that I am sort of on the fence a little with a leg dangling eitherside sometimes with this topic.

[jahsavage]

Moving a wire through a magnetic field does not change any physical properties but a voltage will be induced.

When a component vibrates in any electrical or magnetic field the same thing can happen. Transformers and capacitor are definite sources in amplifiers.

[YNWaN]

Lets start with cross overs which live inside loudspeakers, they are subject to large sound pressures depending upon how loud you play your music. Kevin Scott of LV has had his cross overs in a separate box to avoid these issues. Clarity ESA audiophile capacitors are specially manufactured to reduce resonances due to vibration. At the end of the day your best measuring tool is your ears you just need a convincing demonstration.

We all wish to improve the sound of our systems, dealing with vibrations is one of the cheaper ways this can be achieved. I'll summarize my approach when I find some time.

Hmm... well, lasts just look at a couple of the points you make ;). KS does, of course, use external crossovers but surely there are two more prosaic reasons for externalising these crossover, 1/ he does a number of different crossover grades and having them external makes them a lot easier to change over and, 2/ some of the components are very large in these crossovers and really need the space an external box can provide. Another point you make is regarding the research done by ClarityCap. If you look at said research it quite clearly states that they found no evidence at all that capacitors are effected by external vibration. What they did find is that operation of a capacitor generates its own internal vibration that can modulate its own output - that is the crux of their research and conclusions.

Please note, I’m not grinding an axe here, my own crossovers are external and use ClarityCaps.

[YNWaN]

Yes, but I'm curious whether even the softest can get down below 20Hz.

In short, no. In an absolute sense they probably can be measured to have a tiny effect but the amplitude of the input would be minuscule.

[Macca]

Lets start with cross overs which live inside loudspeakers, they are subject to large sound pressures depending upon how loud you play your music. Kevin Scott of LV has had his cross overs in a separate box to avoid these issues. Clarity ESA audiophile capacitors are specially manufactured to reduce resonances due to vibration. At the end of the day your best measuring tool is your ears you just need a convincing demonstration.

.

The best measuring tools are measuring tools. I used to think the same about mounting crossovers externally until I saw it demonstrated that it makes absolutely no difference to how they work. Ears may work fine but the brain plays all sorts of tricks.

Clarity ESA audiophile capacitors are specially manufactured to reduce resonances due to vibration. According to them. They're just telling people what they want to hear.


I'm all for making efforts to reduce vibration where it matters. But isolating something like a solid state power amp from vibration is pointless except as some sort of religious ritual.

[YNWaN]

The ClarityCap research is valid, it’s just (commonly) misinterpreted by people.

[Macca]

How significant that is to hi-fi capacitors in hi-fi equipment, I can't say with any certainty.

It's the automatic assumption that these things translate into something audible that I have trouble with too.

[cyclopse]

Only speakers and turntables need isolating, waste of time with anything else. There's a great demo video from (I think) the RMAF where they are using a laptop as a source and the laptop is 'isolated' on Stillpoint spikes. Always cracks me up.

I got quite a performance lift by putting Wave Kinetics footers under my integrated amp.

[jahsavage]

I got quite a performance lift by putting Wave Kinetics footers under my integrated amp.

The two links in the learn section cover the subject in quite some detail, maybe enough to satisfy Macca?

Wave Kinetics - Vibrations, analysis and solutions (http://wavekinetics.com/#learn)

[Primalsea]

I am sceptical about a manufacturer’s published research by that is used to market their own products as it is often unbalanced. You can test things to pass test just as much as you can test things to fail and manufacturer’s are unlikely to show you where their products fail, if they have even bothered to test for this in the first place. This is just not in hifi but common in many other industries too.

However what is interesting is that in The Compact Disc: A Handbook of Theory and Use, there is some information to suggest that vibration does effect analogue electronics valve and solid state, although much less reduced in solid state.

There is also mention of the THD+N figures changing when a CD player was isolated from sources of vibration.

However, I do think that in many instances it psycology and not psysical effects that cause the perceived difference in sound.

[Macca]

The two links in the learn section cover the subject in quite some detail, maybe enough to satisfy Macca?

Wave Kinetics - Vibrations, analysis and solutions (http://wavekinetics.com/#learn)

A link to the website of a company that sells anti-vibration products? No that doesn't convince me at all. They'll tell you anything to get a sale.

What convinced me was seeing an experiment where solid-state equipment was measured whilst stationary and whilst being vibrated and there was zero change in the output when it was vibrated. I can't remember which forum this was posted on or I'd link you to it. It's difficult to argue with the results of that, at least as far as I'm concerned.

[cyclopse]

So why if we had a number of components using IKEA tables as their foundation and then move them to a Stillpoints rack that they sound much better?

[Macca]

So why if we had a number of components using IKEA tables as their foundation and then move them to a Stillpoints rack that they sound much better?

How much better? So much so that if they were behind a curtain and you couldn't see what they were stood on, you would be confident that you could pick out the stillpoint every time?


When I was still doing tweaks like that I always used that as my benchmark. I think it sounds better with the tweak, but would I be confident about spotting the improvement blind? If the answer was no, and there was no established explanation for there being an improvement, then I'd dismiss what I was hearing as a psychological effect.

[Pharos]

However minimal, even with S/S the materials inside are not homogenous, and differing densities will result in differing reactions to applied vibration, this producing differential movements.

God knows how many dB down it all is though.

[YNWaN]

The Wave Kinetics stuff is interesting but it’s all conjecture and theory, there isn’t any attempt at actual scientific justification for any of the, many, claims made.

[Macca]

The Wave Kinetics stuff is interesting but it’s all conjecture and theory, there isn’t any attempt at actual scientific justification for any of the, many, claims made.

You're being very kind I think. It's actually a shockingly blatant load of old cobblers from start to finish.

[alphaGT]

One of the popular theories about tweaks, is that while one tweak may not make a noticeable improvement, they may add up to something noticeable all added together. While there seems to be some logic in this idea, I find it all very tedious.

Russell

[Joe]

I do wonder whether the exhibitors of crap-sounding systems realise they sound crap, or if they actually like the sound, even if most visitors to the room listen for a few seconds before fleeing from the godawful racket. Their choice of music is also invariably dodgy, so you get crap music reproduced in a crap way.