View Full Version : What Quality 8 way distribution block
I currently have a 2m Russ Andrews yellow 4 way mains block. I have to chain it to another standard block one to feed my Sky HD box as not enough sockets. Looking at the block itself it looks like a standard white one with the RA yellow attached.
after fighting for space with all the cables at the rear of my system last night whilst wiring up my sterling Black Mamba speaker cable I now think the time has come to replace the mess with one unit I can screw to the wall which will allow more space behind the av unit.
I have emailed mark Grant as there is only the leads on his site. I have no intentions of going down the expensive RA or indeed Isotek route so wonder if there is a block out there I could wire my Yellow cable to or a dedicated one thats not over £100. One that will cope with my kit (except REL) and a Plasma attached.
The Vinyl Adventure
06-03-2010, 12:06
I would have thought you would get a bigger gain from wiering the likes of your sky box to a different block altogether. Just put you hifi on the thing you have and keep the other bits separate socket altogether... Then you don't have to buy anything :)
Nearest Socket (double) is 2.5m away. The second socket is used for my REL which sits well away from the main system and dimmer lamp hence why i need a distribution block. I only really need a 6 way but recon on having some spare sockets if possible.
Being a new build underfloor access is not possible and i have laminate flooring which aint coming up ever again:rolleyes: otherwise I would have got an electrician to add sockets behind my kit and perhaps a dedicated spur.
Mark Grant is working on a mains blocks so I'll wait till he has them available.
Steve Toy
06-03-2010, 21:56
Good mains blocks are star earthed. Your RA block is probably configured in this way so it will be more than an ordinary block with a fancy lead.
Also, DO NOT attach it to a wall unless you want a bloom to your bass and loss of detail.
The Mark Grant block will be good and highly affordable I'm sure. Worth the wait.
dazzler9000
06-03-2010, 22:02
I've been looking at this http://www.olson.co.uk/am1025.htm
I think the power meter would be useful. I think they're designed for network cabinets etc, but they can offer surge protection. I might try one at some point.
Steve Toy
18-03-2010, 20:30
Surge protection is a no-no in audio. It doesn't just kill surges. It kills dynamics too.
As Hamish says, do not plug anything with a switch-mode power supply like your computer or your Sky Box into the same block as your audio equipment if you want the best from your music collection.
Mike Reed
18-03-2010, 21:44
You seem to be quite happy with your bog-standard Yello block, yet eschew the Russ Andrews Power Block (possibly on price).
I have both, but the Power Block saw sterling service when I didn't have access to a dedicated circuit; it really is a cut above the Yello, as it should be.
Unfortunately it's now relegated to a dedicated TV circuit, but it's not eating anything so I leave it there.
Price is the major reason why I have not bought anything from RA in years. I'm sure Mark Grant's mains blocks will be very impressive when they come out if his other stuff is anything to go by.
Surge protection is a no-no in audio. It doesn't just kill surges. It kills dynamics too.
Now that's interesting . . .
Maybe I should try substituting my surge protected computer grade mains block for a standard one . . .
What troubles me though is the then lack of surge protection. I wonder how common equipment destroying surges really are and if it's ok not to protect expensive and sensitive equipment like Hi-Fi?
Kris :scratch:
Steve Toy
19-03-2010, 18:50
Never had a problem in ten years without surge protection which is appropriate for computers.
There are these things called fuses and I've only ever known one blow and that was when I allowed an IEC connection to arc.
Now I switch equipment off before unplugging/plugging in IEC leads.
Now that's interesting . . .
Maybe I should try substituting my surge protected computer grade mains block for a standard one . . .
What troubles me though is the then lack of surge protection. I wonder how common equipment destroying surges really are and if it's ok not to protect expensive and sensitive equipment like Hi-Fi?
Kris :scratch:
Kris I think you should get rid of the computer mains block. I was using a large 8 way Belkin surge protector block - it did sit on the dynamics, no question - I swapped it around with a couple of cheap 4 way blocks that were lying around; they all had a different sound. Ended up buying a 4 way Russ Andrews (about £100). Problem solved.
I don't think there are any 'surge' issues on the UK mains - all you are doing is protecting the system against a lightening strike - and what are the odds of that happening? (Unless God doesn't approve of your taste in music:)).
I once owned an Isotek mains block that had surge protection and shunt filters and was dissapointed to hear no diference at all. Then i spoke to the guys at Merlin and bought a Black Widow mains block on 30 days return. The improvement was amazing, i guess it lowered the noise floor or something but it gave ny system a nice dark sound. It cost me £200 but they seem to be on sale for £100 on their web site.
What troubles me though is the then lack of surge protection. I wonder how common equipment destroying surges really are and if it's ok not to protect expensive and sensitive equipment like Hi-Fi?
Kris :scratch:
It's your gear.. I've had a lightening strike totally wipe out one of these...
http://www.mercatinomusicale.com/allegati/1452210.jpg
It was a nice £4k+ worth down the drain in a quick flash.
chris@panteg
21-03-2010, 23:21
I did some messing around with my 2 mains block's ' one is the Tacima 6 way fitted with surge and filter's ' the other a is Duraplug 4 way standard bloc but fitted with Living Voice mains cable ' its very thick and substantial stuff ' .
I found some interesting results ' the Cambridge 740a sounded best through the Duraplug/LV 4 way where as the Yammy and phono stage sounded clearly better to my ear's anyway through the tacima ' especially the Phono stage seems very sensitive to mains quality .
For surge protection and general noise reduction just plug as many stand-alone noise reducers into spare sockets in the house as you can. I have two Russ Andrews Silencers, one Isotek IsoPlug and two PS Audio Harvesters plugged in.
The system itself gets fed from a PS Audio Powerplant Premier. I don't suffer from mains problems at all.
Ammonite Audio
22-03-2010, 13:20
I once bought an Olson "Sounds Fantastic" mains block (see http://www.soundfantastic.co.uk/ ). Needless to say, it did not sound even remotely fantastic - it was improved by removing the in-line filter module, then further by ditching the screened mains cable, then finally by ditching the internal wiring for solid core 1.5mm copper in PTFE tubing. In other words, Olson sell a really good basic distribution block, but do wire it yourself. Don't buy the ready-made product!
dazzler9000
22-03-2010, 14:11
I once bought an Olson "Sounds Fantastic" mains block (see http://www.soundfantastic.co.uk/ ). Needless to say, it did not sound even remotely fantastic - it was improved by removing the in-line filter module, then further by ditching the screened mains cable, then finally by ditching the internal wiring for solid core 1.5mm copper in PTFE tubing. In other words, Olson sell a really good basic distribution block, but do wire it yourself. Don't buy the ready-made product!
Cheers for that, I'll forget that idea then.
Ali Tait
22-03-2010, 15:08
Mains surges are rare,but they do happen.I was at a substation near York when a surge happened.The voltage is monitored by a voltage transformer that monitors the HV on the circuit breaker.This is monitored by relays that control the tap changers on the transformers.In this case,the connection from the hv to the VT fuses went bad,meaning the tapping relays didn't see the right voltage,so they proceeded to tap the tranformers up and up to restore correct voltage.The upshot was hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of damage to all the electrical items in the homes and factories fed by this circuit.So,yes,these events are rare,but they do happen!
Ok, before I unplug my surge protector, can anyone tell me (I can't find the documents) if contents insurance covers electrical equipment covered by mains surges?
Either the home insurance covers the damage (you have to look in your contract) or the mains surges' maker does (you have to look for the amount, which depends on the model). Belkin has a 25k€ for their AMC models.
I once bought an Olson "Sounds Fantastic" mains block (see http://www.soundfantastic.co.uk/ ). Needless to say, it did not sound even remotely fantastic - it was improved by removing the in-line filter module, then further by ditching the screened mains cable, then finally by ditching the internal wiring for solid core 1.5mm copper in PTFE tubing. In other words, Olson sell a really good basic distribution block, but do wire it yourself. Don't buy the ready-made product!
I use an Olson industrial 6-way distribution board. I replace the mains lead and removed the switch/neon. The Schaffner FN 343-10/5 filter block has been retained as well as the varistor surge protector. The sockets are not star earthed - despite being favoured by some people, I don't think star earthing is that important for mains supplies.
This present arrangement is better than the old Duraplug board I used to use, but I have to say that I am fortunate that the mains here is pretty good. I have the use of a 1.5kW Claude-Lyons mains conditioner, however I don't use it as it doesn't seem to be necessary.
Regards
I must say I am concerned about the damage a surge could do. say there is a power cut and you are not in a position to switch the power block feeding TV, AMP etc off at the wall. When the power comes back on is that not considered a surge as well.
The RA Yellow power block I have contains a superclamp which looks like a small diode of some description. I dont know anything about these things but it looks tiny and wonder about its effectiveness in a surge. Mine is 10 years old now and apparently the superclamp should be replaced.
Surge protectors, also known as varistors or VDRs (voltage dependant resistors) look like:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Varistor_S14K385_photo.jpg/200px-Varistor_S14K385_photo.jpg
When power is restored following a power cut, the restoration is arranged to occur as the mains cycle passes through the zero voltage point. That way the 'surge' is minimised and should not be a concern.
The surge protectors are there to deal with the occasional high voltage spikes that can be caused by a variety of reasons.
Regards
Ali Tait
24-03-2010, 14:34
Indeed.If it's a concern for you,fit those on the back of the IEC sockets on all your kit.Alternatively,just make sure your insurance covers new for old!
Do they wear out then as apparently the superclamp fitted in the plug does according to RA and looks the same as the one pictured above.
Paul,
The quick answer to you question is yes they do. However to wear out they will have had to have been exposed to many overvoltage spikes.
If you are interested, have a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_protector
Regards
Marks two tier mains blocks will be up on the site on Tuesday 6th. Roll on Tuesday :cool:
Dont suppose Mark would care to spill the beans this weekend to TAS folks.
Any news on Marks mains blocks and how do they stack up with the likes of the missing links?
Spectral Morn
05-05-2010, 20:00
Any news on Marks mains blocks and how do they stack up with the likes of the missing links?
Hi Nabs
Please pop into the Welcome section of the forum and say hello, tell us about your system, your taste in music and please add your first name as your signature. We are big on using first names on AOS. Oh yes and a basic location too. Thank you in advance.
Regards D S D L
Popped in - hi to everyone
RochaCullen
22-06-2010, 13:56
Hi,
I have been looking at investing in some mains related kit too. The quandry I am currently in is does buying a mains filtration distribution block negate the need to purchase a fancy power cord? The blocks I was looking at getting were either of
QED Qonduit MDH6
The Copper-line Alpha Power-HUB 6
Merlin Black Widow
The last thing I want to do is spend another pile of cash on elaborate power cord when the job is already done.
Any thoughts?
My kit is predominantly linn, and Linn's line on things is that the effect of mains conditioning with their kit is minimal, as they have designed it to work with normal household mains. Sounds like I might be buying the proverbial "ashtray for a motorbike".
I got a black widow mains block 2 years ago, with a matching cable for cd and amp and was surprised the difference it made. Basically the noise floor dropped and the sound gained clarity. The cost was a lot , £400. But i wished now i bought the Funnelweb. Ive never noticed much difference with interconnects but im a big fan of clean mains. I would say though i bought a Russ Andrew filter and noticed no difference.
Linn's line on things is that the effect of mains conditioning with their kit is minimal, as they have designed it to work with normal household mains.
Cobblers. I have yet to experience a system that does not respond well to mains treatment, wherever you live. However, I'm not so keen on filters. You could do a lot worse than start with a Russ Andrews/Kimber distribution block (with Superclamp) and Powerkords.
Hi Nathan,
I'd agree with Martin in terms of the effects of mains 'conditioning' (cleaning up the mains supply).
Yes, undoubtedly some equipment is more susceptible (by design) to the effects of 'dirty' mains (polluted by R.F.I, noise generated by other appliances sharing the same electrical supply, and other forms of interference), and will thus usually respond more positively to being supplied by a 'cleaner' mains supply than other equipment, but in my considerable experience in this area, ALL equipment benefits from mains treatment to some degree or another :)
However, unlike Martin, I wouldn't endorse a recommendation for the Kimber products mentioned, as in my experience, their entry to mid level products flatter to deceive and tailor the sound in a way which I find as coloured and unrealistic. I do rate the hi-end Kimber cables, though, some of which are truly fabulous, but then you're talking BIG money!
No, my recommendation (as far as blocks and mains leads go) would be for the 8-way version of the Mark Grant, shown below (and is what I use):
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8812/6waymainsblocksingle.jpg (http://img94.imageshack.us/i/6waymainsblocksingle.jpg/)
More info here: http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=45_59&products_id=193
It's a complete 'no-nonsense' design with no filters, which is star-wired and uses high-quality single Crabtree sockets throughout (single sockets offer better performance than doubles, due to their more 'direct' internal earth arrangement) and a superb quality mains flex, in the MG DSP 2.5.
In terms of filters, bad ones kill the music, plain and simple! However, properly designed filters work very well indeed, and do the exact opposite, allowing music to 'breathe' by vastly reducing the noise floor of a system. I use a Tube Distinctions one (shown below with a hard-wired Mark Grant DSP.2.5 mains flex):
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1346/marcofilter.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/marcofilter.jpg/)
That really does a superb job of isolating the digital 'hash' generated by CDPs, DACs, etc, from the rest of the system, without in any way sitting on dynamics, the way the cheap, poorly designed filters do, which are often incorporated into the design of many so-called 'hi-fi' mains blocks.
To partner with the MG mains block, I'd use the DSP 2.5 mains leads, shown here:
http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=45_18&products_id=69
Those are, quite frankly, ridiculously good for the money and outperform mains leads costing several times more from certain 'hi-end' cable manufacturers. As an example, the DSP 2.5s completely outperformed my £800 Transparent Reference cables!!
Hope this helps :cool:
Marco.
Mine is 10 years old now and apparently the superclamp should be replaced.
Surge protectors and mains spike filters tend to get confused and mis-named. Most mains filters will not stop a mains surge from a serious fault on the line or a lightning strike.
http://www.dms-audio.com/megaclamp-clone
I wouldn't endorse a recommendation for the Kimber products mentioned, as in my experience, their entry to mid level products flatter to deceive and tailor the sound in a way which I find as coloured and unrealistic. I do rate the hi-end Kimber cables, though, some of which are truly fabulous, but then you're talking BIG money!
I'm not referring to their low end range (which used to be called Yello) but the proper Kimber-based Powerkords and distribution blocks. In my opinion, they do an excellent job of ridding the mains of interference and hash and do not colour the sound of the system they are feeding.
I have many years' experience of Kimber mains products and they do the job as stated. I now use a regenerator, but still with Powerkords. If I were to create a system from scratch Kimber Powerkords would be costed into the build, they are that necessary to the quality of reproduction. I can only endorse what I know rather than refute other brands, of course, but you may want to give them a try against the opposition.
Hi Martin,
I'm not referring to their low end range (which used to be called Yello) but the proper Kimber-based Powerkords and distribution blocks.
I know you weren't. It wasn't the Yello powercords I was referring to (which I actually thought were pretty good), but rather the latter you've mentioned above, and stick by what I've said.
We've obviously had contrary experiences in that regard, both of which are of course equally as valid :)
The decision of course lies with Nathan. I would still recommend the Mark Grant leads and block, as in my experience, they have less of a 'sonic signature' than the Kimbers. I'm referring here to both their mains leads and distribution blocks.
In fact, in terms of mains leads, I'd go as far to say that the £50 MG DSP 2.5s outperform, for example, the Kimber Classic Powerkords by a considerable margin, and are approx £40 cheaper. Moreover, IMO, they'd likely compare favourably with the Kimber SuperKord Reference at £700, such is the astonishing SPPV Mark builds into his products :cool:
Marco.
Rare Bird
23-06-2010, 13:21
I'll be re-wiring my Olson based mains block with Marks Mains cable as i will with the CD player/DAC & Power amp...This cable is just the perfect diameter for the Block & CD player Cable gland which is brilliant..
Ive always been curious of the high end connectors like furutechs and oyaides.
Noticed Marco has been experimenting and would love to hear a little review on that.
superclamp which looks like a small diode of some description.
A transorb.
Marco,
How do those Tube Distinction filters work and how do you use them? I presume between the mains and the MG distribution block.
Hi Ian,
Yes, the TD filter is plugged into the MG block, and then my transport and DAC are plugged into the filter.
If you want a technical explanation for how the filter works, then obviously Anthony is your man, but essentially it removes the 'hash/noise' generated by ALL digital kit, and thus isolates the rest of the equipment (plugged into the MG block) from said 'hash/noise'.
It's extremely effective, makes a significant improvement to the sound of your system, and thus is highly recommended! :)
Marco.
Rare Bird
03-07-2010, 11:58
I use an Olson industrial 6-way distribution board. I replace the mains lead and removed the switch/neon. The Schaffner FN 343-10/5 filter block has been retained as well as the varistor surge protector. The sockets are not star earthed - despite being favoured by some people, I don't think star earthing is that important for mains supplies.
This present arrangement is better than the old Duraplug board I used to use, but I have to say that I am fortunate that the mains here is pretty good. I have the use of a 1.5kW Claude-Lyons mains conditioner, however I don't use it as it doesn't seem to be necessary.
Regards
I bought one of these below off E-Bay for £6.00 gutted it to a shell,stipped it had it sprayed crackle black, rewired, fitted a proper ground terminal, blanked off the old neon indicator hole, bobs yer uncle better than the branded jobby..Gonna re-re wire it again with Mark Grant mains. I put my original up for sale.Steel construction but it's fine.
:)
http://www.olson.co.uk/13amp_slim.htm
I'm intrested in those filter Marco but i won't pay alot i don't believe in it
I bought one of these below off E-Bay for £6.00 gutted it to a shell,stipped it had it sprayed crackle black, rewired, fitted a proper ground terminal, blanked off the old neon indicator hole, bobs yer uncle better than the branded jobby..Gonna re-re wire it again with Mark Grant mains. I put my original up for sale.Steel construction but it's fine.
:)
http://www.olson.co.uk/13amp_slim.htm
I'm intrested in those filter Marco but i won't pay alot i don't believe in it
Nice one André.
What's the problem with steel?
Regards
Hi Barry,
It's to do with the sonically detrimental effect (in audio applications) of ferrous metals. Ideally, from that point of view, non-ferrous materials would be better used, but I don't get too hung up on that with distribution blocks.
Hi Andre,
If you're interested, dude, it'd be best to PM Anthony. I think they start at around £250, depending on how many sockets are chosen and the way individual sockets are filtered, which is not bad considering what the likes of RA charges for some of that stuff which, IME, isn't anywhere near as effective! ;)
Marco.
Hi Barry,
It's to do with the sonically detrimental effect (in audio applications) of ferrous metals. Ideally, from that point of view, non-ferrous materials would be better used, but I don't get too hung up on that with distribution blocks.
Marco.
I'm aware of the arguments: ferrous metals have permeability, a magnetic loss tangent, hysteresis loops and the like. I just wonder why this does not apply to audio transformers and moving coil speakers? :scratch:
Regards
Lol; it does - but I guess you can't really do without those items in a hi-fi system, whereas you can choose, say, an acrylic-made mains block, as opposed to a metal-based one ;)
It's about minimising any negative sonic effects where possible.
Marco.
Haha! Just keeping you on your toes Marco.
Regards.
PS Are you going to respond to my PM?
Sorry, did I miss one? We're just off to church, but shall check upon my return :)
Marco.
Rare Bird
04-07-2010, 17:37
I suppose it's all a load of BS at the end of the day. My amps heavily constructed from ferrous metal & so is barrys :lolsign:
To some hifi is an obsession, some like to just use them, i suppose if your totally into vintage all this malarky doesnt apply which is fantastic.
chris@panteg
17-07-2010, 09:46
Has anyone tried the MG 6 way or 8 way yet ? they look good and well made but £200 ish is quite a bit of dosh so some feedback would be good
Hi Chris,
I've used one and was involved with Mark in its design. Basically, it does exactly what it says on the tin: high-quality Crabtree single sockets, star-wiring, and an MG DSP 2.5 mains flex, contribute to produce one of the best distribution blocks on the market.
There's not much more I can say other than buy with confidence! :)
Marco.
chris@panteg
17-07-2010, 11:10
Thanks Marco ' good enough for me
Mark Grant
17-07-2010, 11:19
Here is a comment I received from a customer, I have removed the brand name of the more expensive mains block :) (customer has given permission to use his comments)
Hello Mark
Finally got to installing the new mains block yesterday. The system was powered down, the XXXX XXXXXXX Block was removed (it drew a 2A current, constantly 500W - I had no idea...). At the same time, the electrician ensured that all existing sockets at the end of the dedicated radial circuit were tightened (two were loose). Take the comments below in the context that, apart from the above, there were all new silver plated mains plugs throughout, and all contacts and fuses were cleaned. I let the system warm up for an hour playing a CD quietly.
So the perceived differences could be down to a combination of things, but what differences: a very noticable increase in dynamic "power", better bass control, and it becomes far easier to pick out detail. I would say more detail, but I can only assume that there must have been mains noise blocking this previously. It really is quite amazing: the sonic characteristics of the system remains the same, but the presentation is just far sharper (I don't mean bright). I can't believe how much the XXXX XXXXXXX block must have been "sitting" on the dynamics, and how much I didn't need the filtering and "purifying" (oh, the irony...).
I'm a very happy music fan: I'm actually in the office, but so wish I could be at home playing records...
Many thanks for building a good, foo-free bit of hardware that allows my system to perform as intended!
Best regards
Theo
chris@panteg
17-07-2010, 11:25
Hi Mark
Thanks a million for that ' my intention is get the IEC lead and a 6 way from you
in the near future , and i will check all my sockets , good advice that as i changed a switched one to an unswitched socket and found the neutral screw was a bit loose .
(it drew a 2A current, constantly 500W - I had no idea...)
That can't be right - no power block should do that!
Mark Grant
17-07-2010, 13:00
That's what the customers electrician measured the other make of filtered block at, must have been faulty ! no wonder it was warm :scratch:
There is also a thread about that on pink fish forum:
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=80404
Mark.
Hi Mark,
It doesn't take a genius to work out what "the brand name of the more expensive mains block" was....
RA, per chance? ;)
I'll comment on this later, after my current very enjoyable music session using your superb cables throughout on my system! :)
Marco.
The RA was clearly faulty. No mains filter should consume 2A!
Mark Grant
17-07-2010, 16:37
Yep, must have been very faulty, although I dont see how it could consume 500 watts/ 2 amps, maybe the customers electrician measured incorrectly.
If you think how much heat that would produce :eek:
Mark.
Steve Toy
17-07-2010, 18:00
My valve amp only consumes just over 300 W :eek:
Anyway, regardless of that, the important thing is that the RA block sounded pish, and that Mark's block grossly outperformed it, solving a big problem for Theo - which wasn't surprising! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Just found this - yes, it was my block, and yes, the Mark Grant, once installed, is clearly better. There are 2 less fuses and one less plug in the way (the block is now hardwired to one of the dedicated radial circuit sockets), so there was obviously a lowering of impedance, but there is no doubt that the system was not performing as well as it could with the previous block. I've had the MG in place now for over 4 months, and I have no wish to touch anything else in the system: it absolutely meets all MY criteria.
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