View Full Version : Thinking of a new amplifier
Ammonite Audio
04-03-2010, 21:07
My recent trip up to Marco's has left me nurturing a dissatisfaction with my amplifier. There might be something wrong with it, but that aside it is just not flicking my switch any more. That's strange, since I've been happy with it for around 5 years. The main issue is that it does not seem to manage dynamic contrast - I took my Speakers Corner reissue of Giselle (Martinon, Paris Conservatoire, Decca SXL 2128) to Marco's, and his system really had us both pinned to the sofa with the rather stirring drum bashing going on in places. It was hugely enjoyable, yet that stirring quality eludes me at home, and not only with this particular LP. I wish I could put it into musical sense too, but I can't, except to state that I'm not much enjoying anything played through my system much, whether vinyl or CD. Yes, Marco's speakers shift a great deal more air than mine, but I know that I can get a better overall performance from them.
So, leaving aside potential faults, I am now looking around at different integrated amp options. I used to have a WAD KaT88 amp, which I did like; however I did not really want to have the heat, power consumption and safety issues with that sort of valve amp. Its sound was valve-lucid, yet modern and dynamic too - qualities that I have enjoyed with my Lyngdorf in the past, and which I now look to find elsewhere, preferably in an easy to use, uncomplicated design. I'm not ruling out valves again, and I am going to hear a Leben 300 next week (Alan Sircom used a Leben 600 with Avalon speakers like mine at Whittlesbury Hall last year to good effect). My rather eclectic list of other potential integrated amps in the same sort of price range includes ATC, Lavardin, Moon, Krell and Naim. The last one might raise eyebrows but I have heard a Supernait and was impressed. If that represents the new Naim sound, then they've changed a great deal! I can get a home trial of the Lavardin IS Reference, and will probably give it a whirl. Moon, Krell and ATC are all carried by Audio Workshop Norwich, which I note is exhibiting at the Park Inn this month, so I shall be chatting to Julian there.
Second-hand would be good, of course, but if anyone has sensible suggestions for integrated amps up to around £2k that have what I (most probably mistakenly) associate with a Class A sound, I'd be grateful. I'm not interested in anything with protruding bottles, nor anything hair-shirt ugly or crude.
Everyone's auditory systems are different, of course, but it will be interesting to hear experiences and recommendations.
The Grand Wazoo
04-03-2010, 21:28
I'd be adding Luxman & Accuphase to your list. They're both well worth seeking out to get a listen to. For that sort of budget, you ought to be able to find a very good recent S/H integrated.
Just a thought.
alfie2902
04-03-2010, 21:40
Hi Shuggie,
Have you seen these over on the Wam. This one on budget Lavardin IT
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/view_topic.php?id=52381&forum_id=5
This one slightly over but advert says ONO. Leben CS600
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/view_topic.php?id=52495&forum_id=5
might be worth checking them out!
Luxman & Accuphase both good suggestions too.
Ammonite Audio
05-03-2010, 06:18
Hi Shuggie,
Have you seen these over on the Wam. This one on budget Lavardin IT
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/view_topic.php?id=52381&forum_id=5
This one slightly over but advert says ONO. Leben CS600
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/view_topic.php?id=52495&forum_id=5
might be worth checking them out!
Luxman & Accuphase both good suggestions too.
Thanks for that. I had seen the Lavardin, but assumed that it had been sold. The Leben escaped my attention altogether and does merit a look. In the case of the Lavardin, I don't know if the IT holds up against a new IS Reference. £2k for an IT looks a bit steep when a new IS Ref is not much more. As always, all comments and advice gratefully received.
It's probably not the amp at all, but your speakers. Big Tannoys have this regardless of amp - and Marco has apparently a *very* decently fettled pair. Just getting a powerhouse of an amp ain't going to make a pair of small "hifi" squeakers perform like 15" Monitor Golds in a suitable huge box........
The other option you could explore is to modify the amp and perhaps getting someone like Anthony to add a bit of magic to it might the well worth the effort
Hi Shuggs,
My recent trip up to Marco's has left me nurturing a dissatisfaction with my amplifier. There might be something wrong with it, but that aside it is just not flicking my switch any more. That's strange, since I've been happy with it for around 5 years. The main issue is that it does not seem to manage dynamic contrast - I took my Speakers Corner reissue of Giselle (Martinon, Paris Conservatoire, Decca SXL 2128) to Marco's, and his system really had us both pinned to the sofa with the rather stirring drum bashing going on in places. It was hugely enjoyable, yet that stirring quality eludes me at home, and not only with this particular LP. I wish I could put it into musical sense too, but I can't, except to state that I'm not much enjoying anything played through my system much, whether vinyl or CD. Yes, Marco's speakers shift a great deal more air than mine, but I know that I can get a better overall performance from them.
Interesting... And yes, I agree, listening to that recording was hugely entertaining! :eyebrows:
However, I'm curious, what makes you so sure that the 'fault' (if one considers it as that) lies with your amplifier?
I don't know your system at all, as I've never heard it, but of course I know mine rather well, and can say that what you heard which you liked so much with the Giselle vinyl recording was likely down to a number of factors, not least of which were the speakers and the DL-103SA cartridge (and set-up/partnering of it thereof), as well as the copper amp, and of course everything else!!
But yes, in my opinion the main catalysts of that effect would likely have been the copper amp, speakers and arm/cartridge combo on the Techy.
The frightening sheer scale though that we both enjoyed with the Giselle recording would quite simply not have happened had the Tannoys been absent, and instead something smaller and less capable in that respect in their place. The fact is, there is no substitute for single, 15" (or bigger), cleverly engineered, coherent and controlled, drive units shifting vast quantities of air inside extremely inert, purpose-built cabinets! ;)
Like you've said yourself, it's all about cone area (and also in my experience baffle width). I can tell you that as much as I enjoyed Martin T's huge Ushers (and bloody hell did I enjoy them!!), and undoubtedly they produced serious weight and heft in the bass, they still did not have the sheer sense of scale and dynamic impact that I enjoy with the Lockwoods, despite them having twin 11" drivers per side. This became obvious to me when I got home the following day and played the same music on my system we had been listening to on his the day before......
Therefore, don't be quick to judge that what you're missing lies just with your amplifier, because if you want to obtain a slice of what I've got going on in my system in that respect, factors other than just amplification will likely need to be addressed. I'm almost certain, for example, that simply slotting in a big pair of (top-notch) Tannoys into your system as it exists now would give you large slice of what you're looking for.
How much space do you have in your room for really big speakers? All I'm saying, is just be careful you don't end up wasting money on a new amp and still don't get the effect you want.
Food for thought, perhaps? :)
Marco.
Shuggie,how on earth one can go from Lyngdorf to Lavardin and then Leben ? They are completely different regarding sound. :) Okay,here's a thought,since you are considering second hand.Try to find a Jeff Rowland concentra.Jeff Rowland and Avalon are made for each other.Go for the original model if you like a warmer sound or for the mk2 if you preffer a "cooler" sound.
Ammonite Audio
05-03-2010, 09:44
Shuggie,how on earth one can go from Lyngdorf to Lavardin and then Leben ? They are completely different regarding sound. :) Okay,here's a thought,since you are considering second hand.Try to find a Jeff Rowland concentra.Jeff Rowland and Avalon are made for each other.Go for the original model if you like a warmer sound or for the mk2 if you preffer a "cooler" sound.
Are they completely different in sound? I really don't know, but I'm keen to evaluate them all if possible. It's easy to dismiss digital amps because of the uninformed assumptions that they must necessarily sound 'digital' - they do not (necessarily). The Lyngdorf has in the past given me a remarkably fluid, liquid sound, with great power and overall dynamics; and was the amp that drew me away from valves. That's why I think that it may be slightly ill, since the dissatifaction has only recently befallen me. More specifically, there is a known issue with a power resistor that is part of the volume control system (not in the signal path, but the amp does sometimes throw up the error code relating to that fault). I did like the Lyngdorf very much, not only for its sonics, but also for its ease of use and overall facilities. It can (and shall) be repaired and checked out, but you know what audiophools are like - once we have the bug, rational thoughts easily go out of the window!
So, although my list of potential amps may seem completely random and all at odds , there is an underlying theme to the sort of sound that I want. If I could afford Karan, that would be on the list too! Lots of amps work well with Avalon, since they are not particularly demanding. I once heard a pair of Indras fed from a Lyngdorf semi-digital power amp and it was one of those "feck me, that's good" moments.
Lavardin as a brand has an almost religious halo around it and I am very curious to try one of their amps. I am a Francophile, too! It only costs me £36 for carriage to get a home trial of the IS Reference from MAX, and then only if I don't like it, so I shall give that a pop. Like the Leben, there is no remote control, which is a potential PITA.
The frightening sheer scale though that we both enjoyed with the Giselle recording would quite simply not have happened had the Tannoys been absent, and instead something smaller and less capable in that respect in their place. The fact is, there is no substitute for single, 15" (or bigger), cleverly engineered, coherent and controlled, drive units shifting vast quantities of air inside extremely inert, purpose-built cabinets!
I know that, but those fantastic drum sounds are almost completely absent at the moment, but I had experienced them before, hence taking the LP to your place the other week. I do acknowledge that your DL-103SA was part of the magic.
How much space do you have in your room for really big speakers? All I'm saying is just be careful that you don't end up wasting money on a new amp and still don't get the effect you want.
Bearing in mind their compact dimensions, the Avalons do as well as anything else that can be accommodated in my house. I do not have space for anything larger! Quad 'statics might do, as they do not dominate the room like boxes do, but the newer models are beyond my purse.
I am coming up to Scalford with Snoopdog on Sunday, so maybe that will help to crystallise some ideas and thoughts.
Shuggs,
Don't have time to comment much just now, but could you bring the Giselle recording with you to Scalford? :)
Cheers!
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
05-03-2010, 13:58
Nae probs! I'll be bringing the PSU too, as requested.
Ammonite Audio
06-03-2010, 11:18
Update: I have agreed a price on the Leven 600 advertised over on HiFi Wigwam! Although I have little idea what I have agreed to buy, I don't think there's much risk. And, I have an amp that if bought new would have been way, way beyond my purse.
Happy box-swapping days!
No, there's no risk with a Leben CS-600 amp. ;)
Shuggie,
The Leben, is a nice piece of equipment and should inject a good dose of music into the system.
We had a trade in a few months back, quality enjoyable music maker :-)
Ammonite Audio
11-03-2010, 06:57
After a lengthy trek up past North Wales, I now have in my possession a nice shiny Leben CS600 amplifier, glorious in gold, green and wood. I wasn't going to bother putting it into the system last night, but could not resist. My blind faith appears to have been vindicated - it sounds lovely, and surprisingly muscular, with real grace. The real test of 'Giselle' will have to wait for now, but I'm very pleased.
The very pleasant chap from whom I bought the Leben is moving on to a Gamut pre/power combination. I do hope that works for him!
Here is the beast:
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/hugocass/Leben/DSCF0530.jpg
Hi Shuggs,
That's a really lovely looking thing! I heard one before when Alan Sircom demonstrated one in his system at the Whittlebury Hall show last year and was suitably impressed :)
It's a single-ended amp, so don't expect the sheer all-out 'balls' of the copper amp, but like Tony says, it'll be beguilingly musical, giving you a goodly dose of valve magic, and very different to what you had before!
Enjoy and keep us posted how you get on with it :cool:
Marco.
Dave Hewitt
11-03-2010, 10:19
Hi
Are you sure its single ended?
Dave.
Hi Dave,
I certainly thought it was (or perhaps it was its smaller brother?)
You tell me by looking at the spec in the link below, as I'm unsure (seems that it's switchable):
http://www.lebenhifi.com/products/cs600.html
Marco.
Stratmangler
11-03-2010, 10:46
It's push pull - I suspected that from the output figures alone.
This seemd to confirm it http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/leben2/system_2.html
If you go to page one of the article there's some stuff about the Leben company.
Chris:)
Hi Chris,
It's push pull - I suspected that from the output figures alone.
This seemd to confirm it http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/leben2/system_2.html
Me too when I saw them! I was getting mixed up with its little brother the CS-300, which I believe is single-ended :)
Marco.
Stratmangler
11-03-2010, 11:03
Hi Chris,
Me too when I saw them! I was getting mixed up with its little brother the CS-300, which I believe is single-ended :)
Marco.
CS300 is PP too - go to the bottom of the page I posted and click on previous - there's a whole stack of information on the Leben company and the chap who started it all.
Chris:)
Dave Hewitt
11-03-2010, 11:08
Looks superb,how many houses do these cost Marco?Perhaps when my ship comes in .Bye the way I had plans to come living with you when I'v gone completly no old folks home for me,and music all day long.
Cheers Dave.
Shuggie,
I would also try taking the Leben off the still spoints, you may be surprised!
Ammonite Audio
12-03-2010, 19:42
Shuggie,
I would also try taking the Leben off the still spoints, you may be surprised!
The Leben is sitting on the Stillpoints ESS rack, using its own feet. Did you mean the rack?
The last couple of days have been very interesting. The Leben's performance has varied enormously, and I have discovered that it's nothing to do with the amp, but my mains. Actually, the Leben is more forgiving of poor mains than the Lyngdorf, but it buzzes very badly when the mains is "off". God only knows what the mains waveform looks like to cause such vibration! I have no control whatsoever over the mains, and cannot tinker with anything electrical in the house (which belongs to the MoD), so I might seek out a PS Audio Power Plant Premier as a potential solution. Martin Colloms reviewed it in HiFi Critic and was very positive, concluding that in situations other than where there is a perfect supply, dedicated spur etc, it's very good. I know that Martin T has a PPP, so if you're reading this Martin, what do you think?
Hi Shuggs,
Have you tried the Giselle track yet? :)
Marco.
Rare Bird
12-03-2010, 19:47
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/hugocass/Leben/DSCF0530.jpg
:stalks:
Ammonite Audio
12-03-2010, 19:58
Hi Shuggs,
Have you tried the Giselle track yet? :)
Marco.
I have, albeit when the mains was playing up and it didn't sound too nice. I'm pleased to report, though, that the drum bashing came over much better than with the Lyngdorf. I need to listen again when the mains is better (late night, probably).
Just clicked on this: http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DL-103SA-Cartridge?sc=2&category=369 . $499 for a DL-103SA? Surely that's too good to be true?
It's the cheapest I've ever seen it! :stalks:
Worth snapping up, me thinks, while it's still available...
Marco.
Rare Bird
12-03-2010, 20:09
Hey marco you can't like those Leben tube amps they got a bass booost control..
:sofa:
:cool:
Rare Bird
12-03-2010, 20:11
One of the most beautiful looking amps available today
http://www.lebenhifi.com/products/more-img/cs600_2_l.jpg
Hey marco you can't like those Leben tube amps they got a bass booost control..
Ya....
D-I-S-C-O, baby! http://www.smileys4me.com/getsmiley.php?show=2809 http://www.smileys4me.com/getsmiley.php?show=2809
Marco.
A very good looking and well voiced amp. :) Congrats Shuggie, nice move ! ;)
Ali Tait
12-03-2010, 21:19
That is one nice looking amp!
Marco-SE no balls?? Seems you've forgotten the 813 on Steve's OB's... :fingers:
Shuggie,
Just for now take the Leben off the the rack, place it on a decent hardwood / sepele block around 30-45mm thick, you will find quite a difference, possibly a more natural, texturious and engaging sound.
Stillpoints have a effect on the overall sound for sure, however sometimes it is nice to try alternative options.
Worth a try as it will certainly not break the bank.
As for the mains, never been a few of mains regenerators for audio of late, however mains can very important in the overall picture, worth investigating your options.
That is one nice looking amp!
Marco-SE no balls?? Seems you've forgotten the 813 on Steve's OB's... :fingers:
Lol - ah didnae say it hid nae boz, just no as much (usually) as P/P ;)
But, since it's P/P anyway, that duznae apply - although yon wee valves (EL34/84) dinnae sound as 'ballsy' in ma experience as KT88s!
Marco.
Rare Bird
13-03-2010, 10:43
although yon wee valves (EL34/84) dinnae sound as 'ballsy' in ma experience as KT88s!
Tha bi nay tru bruvver, I happen ter fink the EL34 er a better sardin toobe.wiv arl the balls ter boot.Go listern ter an old Radford ;)
Yup - depends how both are implemented, muchacho :cool:
Marco.
Snoopdog
13-03-2010, 13:57
Tha bi nay tru bruvver, I happen ter fink the EL34 er a better sardin toobe.wiv arl the balls ter boot.Go listern ter an old Radford ;)
Ooh! This is like reading 'The Broons' in The Sunday Post, dressed only in mae simmit and breeks!
And pishcatchers too, no?
Ye cannae say ye've goat yur claeths oan wi'oot yur pishers!
Marco.
Snoopdog
13-03-2010, 15:05
And pishcatchers too, no?
Ye cannae say ye've goat yur claeths oan wi'oot yur pishers!
Marco.
Actually, I went into Sole Trader in Reading this morning and treated the pishcatchers to a a brand new set of interconnects, err I mean laces :)
Wish I could respond in Welsh, but I've long forgotten what my Mama taught me of that noble language..... :(
bigmarty
13-03-2010, 19:26
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/hugocass/Leben/DSCF0530.jpg[/QUOTE]
Hi Shuggie, what a beauty of an amp, I hope it sounds as good as it looks.
Marty :)
Ammonite Audio
17-03-2010, 20:13
What's sitting in the system now?
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/hugocass/Leben/DSCF0537.jpg
This is a bit unexpected, but there's something about the Leben's sound that slightly disturbs me, although it is quite sweet and refined. A friend who possesses good ears is coming round early next week, so I hope to be able to home in on just what is not right. The Leben is a quite old-fashioned sounding amp, and maybe that's the issue, but we shall see. Also, there might be something awry with it, and I may take it to Anthony for a bit of testing. I'm also going to try a mains regenerator (Exactpower), so that may help; however in the meantime, good-old-fashioned Class D rules in this house!
Shuggie you mentioned that you room needs some kind of mains treatment I suggest wait till you get this sorted out before you decide how much or how little you like the Leban
Shuggie, mate, you need a copper amp and a pair of Tannoys! :eyebrows: ;)
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
17-03-2010, 21:04
Shuggie you mentioned that you room needs some kind of mains treatment I suggest wait till you get this sorted out before you decide how much or how little you like the Leban
That's the plan. I do want the Leben to work out, so I'm not about to move it on yet.
Ammonite Audio
17-03-2010, 21:05
Shuggie, mate, you need a copper amp and a pair of Tannoys! :eyebrows: ;)
Marco.
Given the right sort of house and more distant neighbours, I would wholeheartedly agree!
Ammonite Audio
18-03-2010, 18:27
Right!
Today I have been playing with an ExactPower EP15A mains regenerator, borrowed from Blade Audio.
http://www.exactpoweraudio.com/assets/products/ep15a/home/heroproduct.jpg
It seems that my mains problem is real - it's a rather high 246v, so that's probably the reason for the Leben buzzing so noticeably and sounding slightly odd. Whether the mains is crap too is probably a side issue.
Anyway, the results are most encouraging - the Leben now sounds graceful and musical. Notably deep bass too, but far better controlled than before. There might be a slight hardening of the sound with the EP15A, but longer listening will establish that for sure.
Fiddling with the speaker impedance switch has also made a difference, but it's early days to be sure. I think I prefer the sound with the switch at 6 ohms, rather than 4 ohms, which my Avalons are, supposedly. Of course, speaker impedance is a dynamic thing, and a bit of a moving target!
So, I'm much happier that I have made a wise purchase. I'm not sure what to do if I don't like the mains regenerator on balance, since I cannot do anything about the supply here, which belongs to the MoD.
Oh, and I need some single-ended interconnects. the MIT AVT cables that I bought from Jerry are not at all nice; and my Kimber Silver Streak is perhaps a tad brightly lit, although pretty damned good in every other respect. Methinks a set of Mark Grants is worth a pop, at £70.
Ammonite Audio
24-03-2010, 10:48
Methinks a set of Mark Grants is worth a pop, at £70.
And they are! Much, much more listenable than my Kimber Silver Streak and the MIT AVt1 cables. Much to my surprise, the resulting rebalancing of the system with the Mark Grant cables has shown that the ExactPower is not doing anything really good - merely papering over a mismatch that I had before. What this means is the Leben is now sounding much, much more to my liking. This is also down to some HiFi housekeeping, like carefully dressing cables and reducing clutter.
One more cheap and harmless experiment is to follow Tony's advice regarding a stout wooden block as a support for the Leben. I have some 38mm thick oak kitchen worktop sections that will suffice, which I will support on Foculpods. The amp can then sit on the block, either using its own feet or with Stillpoints, depending on what works for me. Maybe the Technics will prefer this support? We shall soon find out!
I must try the Mark Grant interconnects on the Lyngdorf, too. Another set should be with me today, along with a mains lead.:)
And they are! Much, much more listenable than my Kimber Silver Streak and the MIT AVt1 cables.
{Stifles the merest hint of a titter-ette} ;)
Good news, Shuggs - I'm pleased for ya. If something as simple as a cable swap sorts your slight misgivings with the Leben, then that's a result!
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
25-03-2010, 12:48
{Stifles the merest hint of a titter-ette} ;)
Good news, Shuggs - I'm pleased for ya. If something as simple as a cable swap sorts your slight misgivings with the Leben, then that's a result!
Marco.
I was a bit more specific in the Mark Grant cables thread:
Fiddling around with my Leben CS-600 amp has meant fiddling with RCA type interconnects, since I was using balanced interfaces before on vinyl and all-digital on CD. The MIT AVt1 cable that I bought from Jerry is not really my cup of tea, so I took a punt on a set of Mark Grants, mainly since Marco's system sounded so good with them. Although the cables are new, there is a nice, rounded, 'wholeness' to the sound. I did initially wonder where the top end had gone, but it is there alright, just nicely balanced with the rest of the frequency range. So, initial impressions are very good - good enough to have ordered another RCA cable and a mains lead too.
I have to say that Mark Grant's service is excellent, too.
Don't let it go to your head;)
Moi? Never! :lol:
When are you next up in my neck of the woods? I wouldn't mind hearing the Leben :)
There's a rather nice pub not far from me, so we could go there for some lunch and retire later at mine for a sesh :cool:
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
25-03-2010, 16:55
Moi? Never! :lol:
When are you next up in my neck of the woods? I wouldn't mind hearing the Leben :)
There's a rather nice pub not far from me, so we could go there for some lunch and retire later at mine for a sesh :cool:
Marco.
I don't have any plans as such, but I'm sure something can be arranged. Is the pub the one next door?
Nope - it's 5 mins away in the car in the country... Top local real ales and the finest grub! :cool:
I think you'd like it ;)
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
25-03-2010, 17:41
Nope - it's 5 mins away in the car in the country... Top local real ales and the finest grub! :cool:
I think you'd like it ;)
Marco.
You may be right there. I do like real, brown, beer!
PM me and we'll diary something for after Easter. I'm booked up until the last week in April, so anytime after that :cool:
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
27-03-2010, 19:47
On top of trying out the Mark Grant cables, I received some good advice from Dave at Blade Audio, which led me to tidy up all the system wiring, paying attention to supporting the MIT cable boxes; also just shifting the different bits of equipment slightly on the shelves of the Stillpoints rack, eg not having everything lined up perfectly. It seems utterly bizarre that such things can make a difference, but they do - the system sound is much more cohesive and melodic. Putting the ExactPower regenerator back into the system having done this tidying up resulted in a really nasty sound, confirming that what I had thought was a mains problem wasn't, and it did not cost a significant sum to fix.
So, bearing all of this in mind, today I decided to revisit my system references, so out came the Leben and in came the Lyngdorf TDA-2200, using the Mark Grant cables where possible. Leaving aside the slightly crisper presentation of the Lyngdorf, I am shocked at the difference between the amps. The Lyngdorf has so much more drive, definition and depth. I have yet to try Tony's tip of a heavy wooden platform for the Leben, but I am now confused. I really don't know which I prefer - the relatively liquid but ultimately a tad woolly valve sound of the Leben, or the more open-hearted and exuberant sound of the Lyngdorf. Certainly the Lyngdorf portrays instruments far more accurately, which is an attribute hard to ignore. The tonal differences can be dialled out to a certain extent by playing with the Lyngdorf's DSP (currently set to bypass mode), so that's something to try tomorrow when a suitable Windows laptop is on hand.
All of this is frustrating, but harmless fun nevertheless. The Leben may benefit from some new tubes, but I'm loath to splash out on those just yet. Alium Audio had a good offer on matched Genelex Gold Lion KT77s at Heathrow today, but I resisted the temptation.
Marco - maybe you should come down here to help me decide on which amp to keep?
That's would be interesting and I'm sure lots of fun, Shuggs :)
Do you want me to bring the copper amp down (as a reference) so you can hear what a proper valve amp sounds like? :eyebrows: ;)
Marco.
P.S If you really like it, I'm sure Anthony would build you one.
Nope - it's 5 mins away in the car in the country... Top local real ales and the finest grub! :cool:
I think you'd like it ;)
Marco.
and if that's no good...try this one.
http://www.thecockobarton.co.uk/
Ali Tait
27-03-2010, 23:13
On top of trying out the Mark Grant cables, I received some good advice from Dave at Blade Audio, which led me to tidy up all the system wiring, paying attention to supporting the MIT cable boxes; also just shifting the different bits of equipment slightly on the shelves of the Stillpoints rack, eg not having everything lined up perfectly. It seems utterly bizarre that such things can make a difference, but they do - the system sound is much more cohesive and melodic. Putting the ExactPower regenerator back into the system having done this tidying up resulted in a really nasty sound, confirming that what I had thought was a mains problem wasn't, and it did not cost a significant sum to fix.
So, bearing all of this in mind, today I decided to revisit my system references, so out came the Leben and in came the Lyngdorf TDA-2200, using the Mark Grant cables where possible. Leaving aside the slightly crisper presentation of the Lyngdorf, I am shocked at the difference between the amps. The Lyngdorf has so much more drive, definition and depth. I have yet to try Tony's tip of a heavy wooden platform for the Leben, but I am now confused. I really don't know which I prefer - the relatively liquid but ultimately a tad woolly valve sound of the Leben, or the more open-hearted and exuberant sound of the Lyngdorf. Certainly the Lyngdorf portrays instruments far more accurately, which is an attribute hard to ignore. The tonal differences can be dialled out to a certain extent by playing with the Lyngdorf's DSP (currently set to bypass mode), so that's something to try tomorrow when a suitable Windows laptop is on hand.
All of this is frustrating, but harmless fun nevertheless. The Leben may benefit from some new tubes, but I'm loath to splash out on those just yet. Alium Audio had a good offer on matched Genelex Gold Lion KT77s at Heathrow today, but I resisted the temptation.
Marco - maybe you should come down here to help me decide on which amp to keep?
Stop mucking about and get a proper single-ended amp,that'll get rid of the woolly sound! :eyebrows:
Dave Hewitt
27-03-2010, 23:23
Hi Ali
Whats the score on your 813 amp? Did you get it fixed?
Dave.
Ali Tait
27-03-2010, 23:51
No,not yet Dave.I did get a quote for a new mains trannie but haven't done anything yet.I'm concentrating on the direct-coupled amp at the mo.
Ammonite Audio
29-03-2010, 21:11
The amp contest chez Shuggie is now settled. The amp that's staying is:
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/hugocass/Leben/DSCF0538.jpg
Did you do the comparison with Marco ? :scratch:
Ammonite Audio
30-03-2010, 08:52
Did you do the comparison with Marco ? :scratch:
No I didn't. I don't believe that would not have altered the outcome; and I can't afford a Copper Amp (which does not in any case meet my specification of an amp without protruding tubes). I've placed the Leben on http://www.hifi-adverts.co.uk so with luck it will go quickly to someone who appreciates its considerable virtues.
It's nice you have found the sound and presence you like. ;)
No worries, the Leben is a highly regarded amp, it sells well, afaik.
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