View Full Version : Top CD player wanted
One of the (many) things I don’t understand is with the level of “courier carnage” many of us have experienced how come the manufacturers/dealers seem to be able to get their wares delivered “sans damage “? All the kit I have bought new (amps, DACS, transports, arms etc) have arrived in perfect working order. Go figure.
Steve
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dealers and manufacturers get their shipments damaged by couriers too. And it is not an uncommon occurrence, either.
hifi_dave
16-02-2018, 12:57
What ever it is, if it's properly packed, it should survive unscathed.
I have deliveries almost every day and can't recall anything damaged for, probably, 15 years or more. Sometimes, the cartons are dinged, squashed or mucky but the contents are perfect.
montesquieu
16-02-2018, 13:28
What ever it is, if it's properly packed, it should survive unscathed.
I have deliveries almost every day and can't recall anything damaged for, probably, 15 years or more. Sometimes, the cartons are dinged, squashed or mucky but the contents are perfect.
From manufacturers? Or from Joe Punter on ebay?
hifi_dave
16-02-2018, 14:52
Manufacturers. I rarely buy any Hi-Fi from E-Bay as I have far too much here and need to move most of it on.
The problem I've found with E-Bay Hi-Fi purchases is not damage in transit just faulty goods.
What ever it is, if it's properly packed, it should survive unscathed.
I have deliveries almost every day and can't recall anything damaged for, probably, 15 years or more. Sometimes, the cartons are dinged, squashed or mucky but the contents are perfect.
I completely agree. And if it hasn't, then it's almost certainly occurred, not necessarily because the sender hasn't packed things properly (after all, aside from blatant neglect, "properly" is subjective), but rather that the sender hasn't packed things sufficiently well enough, for the contents to survive the abuse they're liable to be subjected to in transit, through careless handling by couriers, or whatever.
*That* is the real problem. And which is why, once you think that whatever you're sending to someone has been 'packed properly', pack it some more, just for good measure, as the extra layer of protection applied at that point, may just be the difference between the item getting to its destination intact or not!
I've sent stuff all over the world, and some of it extremely fragile, without any problems, such as a matched quad of NOS GEC KT88s, to Australia, minus their original boxes, which despite being handled, en route, many different times by different people, got there safe and sound.
One thing I've found that usually works well, is to thickly bubble-wrap EVERYTHING, whether you think it 'needs' it or not, and double, or even triple-box stuff, so that the contents have as many layers of protection around them as possible. Crucially, you also need to ensure that what's inside is completely prevented from rattling around, as that's often how damage occurs.
Consequently, the size of the package those valves ended up being shipped in, was about ten times bigger than they were!!
At the end of the day, it's YOUR responsibility, as a seller, to do as much as you can (and put in the required effort) to ensure that the person who's given you his or her hard-earned cash gets the goods that they've paid for, in the SAME condition they were in when they left - and in that respect too many sellers are lazy. After all, in most cases, full payment from the buyer will already have been received, so often the motivation to 'go the extra mile', in that respect, is lacking...
However, deliveries of items from commercial companies, shipped inside custom-made cartons and packaging, such as you're referring to, is a different kettle of fish from private sellers shipping items to buyers, often without access to the original boxes and packaging, and having to utilize whatever he or she has available, so I'm not surprised that you've experienced no problems with the former - you really shouldn't! ;)
Marco.
One of the (many) things I don’t understand is with the level of “courier carnage” many of us have experienced how come the manufacturers/dealers seem to be able to get their wares delivered “sans damage “? All the kit I have bought new (amps, DACS, transports, arms etc) have arrived in perfect working order. Go figure.
I've just answered that one, Steve:)
As Macca points out, it can (and does) still happen, but if goods have been shipped inside high quality, custom-made cartons and packaging (as is usually the case with what you're referring to), then it should always successfully cushion them from damage, even if the cartons themselves sometimes get damaged.
Marco.
Spectral Morn
16-02-2018, 20:39
I completely agree. And if it hasn't, then it's almost certainly occurred, not necessarily because the sender hasn't packed things properly (after all, aside from blatant neglect, "properly" is subjective), but rather that the sender hasn't packed things sufficiently well enough, for the contents to survive the abuse they're liable to be subjected to in transit, through careless handling by couriers, or whatever.
*That* is the real problem. And which is why, once you think that whatever you're sending to someone has been 'packed properly', pack it some more, just for good measure, as the extra layer of protection applied at that point, may just be the difference between the item getting to its destination intact or not!
I've sent stuff all over the world, and some of it extremely fragile, without any problems, such as a matched quad of NOS GEC KT88s, to Australia, minus their original boxes, which despite being handled, en route, many different times by different people, got there safe and sound.
One thing I've found that usually works well, is to thickly bubble-wrap EVERYTHING, whether you think it 'needs' it or not, and double, or even triple-box stuff, so that the contents have as many layers of protection around them as possible. Crucially, you also need to ensure that what's inside is completely prevented from rattling around, as that's often how damage occurs.
Consequently, the size of the package those valves ended up being shipped in, was about ten times bigger than they were!!
At the end of the day, it's YOUR responsibility, as a seller, to do as much as you can (and put in the required effort) to ensure that the person who's given you his or her hard-earned cash gets the goods that they've paid for, in the SAME condition they were in when they left - and in that respect too many sellers are lazy. After all, in most cases, full payment from the buyer will already have been received, so often the motivation to 'go the extra mile', in that respect, is lacking...
However, deliveries of items from commercial companies, shipped inside custom-made cartons and packaging, such as you're referring to, is a different kettle of fish from private sellers shipping items to buyers, often without access to the original boxes and packaging, and having to utilize whatever he or she has available, so I'm not surprised that you've experienced no problems with the former - you really shouldn't! ;)
Marco.
+ 1
Agree completely.
I have suffered several shipping nightmares. I bought a pair of speakers once that had a fork lift tang hole through it! And UPS tried to say it wasn’t properly packaged. In the end they only paid me for one speaker. Fair I guess. And my recent amp purchase, they bent the fin, but it was not packaged as thoroughly as it should have been, it weighs 130lbs, the foam did not support it. My tuner arrived with the meters knocked slam out of the front. I fixed it rather than send it back. Dealing with a shipping catastrophe is such a major headache! No matter how clear cut the case is, they try their best to not pay off, after you’ve bought insurance from them to protect you from them! If you pay them to deliver a package, you’d thing they should include it being in one piece. But no, that cost extra! I’ve made a claim against both UPS and Fed Ex, and both were not in the least helpful, and it took a very long time to be compensated.
I like the way Jeff Roland packages his stuff! You buy one of his amps and it comes in a piece of luggage! Like pros pack concert equipment in for world tours. You’re selling a piece of gear that cost many thousands of dollars, what’s the harm in spending $150 for a custom shipping container? I’m sure they pay for themselves in fewer shipping damages. If any! Personally, I’ve gone to the local home improvement store and bought a sheet of 2” styrofoam, and made custom packing with heavy cardboard boxes. Seems the word Fragile has lost its meaning? So you have to pack for Armageddon.
Russell
Seems the word Fragile has lost its meaning? So you have to pack for Armageddon.
Exactly the case, or they see it as a challenge to test for fragility!
Marco.
walpurgis
16-02-2018, 22:34
Personally, I’ve gone to the local home improvement store and bought a sheet of 2” styrofoam, and made custom packing with heavy cardboard boxes.
Russell
That's exactly what I do.
'Fragile' tape or stickers are a waste of money. Everything gets treated the same at 3 am in a freezing cold distribution hub warehouse. Pack it to survive being dropped onto concrete from a height or kicked by a steel-toe capped boot. Not maliciously, but it happens. Lots of bubble wrap. Go nuts. And absolutely pack it tight, there should be no possibility of it moving even a fraction. Swaddle the thing. And if you are still not sure, then collection only.
'Swaddle the thing...
Mummify it.
Marco.
Mummify it.
Marco.
Get Egyptian on its ass.
I slightly disagree here.
To me there are two main things to protect against; external penetration into the item, and excessive shock. Packing for no internal movement may transmit a shock into the item, and I decouple it if delicate with a thick slightly elastic internal padding.
Penetration from outside is harder to deal with, and needs a protection shell which I attempt using cardboard layers glued with PVA and use a hair dryer to mould where appropriate.
This latter, and cutting and gluing styrene chunks with Time Bond to form an inner mould is labour intensive, but worth it.
Make it squeal!
Or have I taken it too far now? :hmm:
Marco.
Lawrence001
16-02-2018, 23:07
Hmm. Let's get back on track.
Adrian - are you still in the market for a cd player?
Make it squeal!
Or have I taken it too far now? :hmm:
Marco.
You have to ask?
farflungstar
17-02-2018, 11:27
I have booked the Opus in for collection by UPS on Monday.
The seller has given me his tel number and apologised for being so stressed out. I'm thankful for that.
Though I want this whole episode to be over I am a little worried that folk on here might think I'm a difficult buyer - so I have copied the two messages from PayPal that gave rise to my 'dickhead' comment.
Please note that the high voltage valve equipment he refers to was me connecting the player into the arc ref 75 inputs as recommended by the maker and using the players inbuilt volume control. To suggest that I don't know how to connect a cd player was ridiculous.
31/01/2018 17:50 GMT+01:00 - Buyer: The item was described as 100% working without any issues, but immediately upon connection to my amplifier ( Audio Research) it was obvious it had a channel imbalance and was not 100% functional. There is*no way of correcting this and after speaking to the manufacturer (I have emails) they have said it sounds like a failing DAC chip, which means it would need ot be shipped back to the USA for repair. I also spoke with the Importers (Redline) who said it should*be returned to the seller immediately. It was sent in a wooden crate and suffered no visible damage in transit.
31/01/2018 21:11 GMT+01:00 - PayPal: Seller escalated this dispute to a Claim.
31/01/2018 21:11 GMT+01:00 - Seller: Paypal, thank you. I would rather this go to PayPal to meditate as I do not wish to communicate with this buyer anymore, as they are being unreasonable. This sale has been causing me a great deal of upset and a lot*of stress because of this buyer. This is not a case of item as not described, as I can assure you this item was 100% working without any issues and paypal are more than welcome to contact me in this regard. As much as I dont want to see anyone unhappy with*a purchase I cant be held responsible for any damage that they have caused. I have tried communicating with this buyer but they seem to be clueless as to using equipment of this type and I can provide evidence of this (which is accessible online to read).*I am a trustworthy seller but it seems in this instance I am becoming a victim of someone who obviously has no clue about the goods they have purchased, and I believe has even possibly done some serious damage to it. They are now demanding for a refund onsomething that they have been playing with, which they are now claiming is faulty. This is a very sensitive piece of electronic audio equipment and I have evidence of this person discussing on forums how they have been plugging various high voltage valve equipmentdirectly into it, and I do not know how they have been doing it or if they have been doing it appropriately, and what damaging effect it might have had . I can assure you that this piece of equipment was fully tested and 100% working as it should, fully functional*when it left me, it was an immaculate example. I would never try to sell anyone faulty equipment as in good working order. I have even captured screen shots of this person (which I can provide) discussing on a audio enthusiast forum how he has been connecting*it in various ways but he seems pretty inexperienced to this type of equipment, and there is a great possibility here that he has shorted something out. He has even stipulated in his discussions to others that it was
He ran out of words..
If he hadn't escalated to a claim, and worked with me on the problem this whole mess could have been different. It might be as simple as knocked IC chip that needs reseating or a buggered solder joint - but no way would I have dared investigate after what he had written.
Anyway - it will be back with him next week.
farflungstar
17-02-2018, 12:46
Hmm. Let's get back on track.
Adrian - are you still in the market for a cd player?This whole episode has messed with my head. I'm £400 down on shipping wth the Brier/Opus - that's a lot of albums. I've also got a nice little collection of CDs that I've wanted for years and haven't been played sitting gathering dust. Yes I'm still in the market but priority is the ability to fix it should anything go wrong, that cuts out a lot of contenders.
Had the seller had a different approach and had the Opus been easily repairable I would happily have got it fixed - afterall the price was a bargain - but as Redline said, if it's the motherboard then it's a brick, period.
Tom has recommended AN gear and I've emailed Peter wth some questions.
ARC gets very good reviews and their technical support engineers are only a 2 hour car drive away. I just don't like the style though it matches the ref 75. Im even thinking of trying a new pre - one of the ref ARC's.
I adore the looks of the Luxman D-38u but servicing in Spain isn't so easy.
There are lots of vintage players I like - but they are not easily serviced.
The other contender is Lector, their latest MK3 which has great reviews - I just need to check servicing.
I've learnt some lessons.
Watch this space.
Lawrence001
17-02-2018, 13:19
Totally understandable in the circumstances, I wish you better luck in the search for this and any other components, and I'm sorry my recommendation worked out so badly.
Audio Al
17-02-2018, 13:48
This whole episode has messed with my head. I'm £400 down on shipping wth the Brier/Opus - that's a lot of albums. I've also got a nice little collection of CDs that I've wanted for years and haven't been played sitting gathering dust. Yes I'm still in the market but priority is the ability to fix it should anything go wrong, that cuts out a lot of contenders.
Had the seller had a different approach and had the Opus been easily repairable I would happily have got it fixed - afterall the price was a bargain - but as Redline said, if it's the motherboard then it's a brick, period.
Tom has recommended AN gear and I've emailed Peter wth some questions.
ARC gets very good reviews and their technical support engineers are only a 2 hour car drive away. I just don't like the style though it matches the ref 75. Im even thinking of trying a new pre - one of the ref ARC's.
I adore the looks of the Luxman D-38u but servicing in Spain isn't so easy.
There are lots of vintage players I like - but they are not easily serviced.
The other contender is Lector, their latest MK3 which has great reviews - I just need to check servicing.
I've learnt some lessons.
Watch this space.
This one any good for you ?
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/sony-cdp-337esd-aka-the-tank.212285/#post-3319700
montesquieu
17-02-2018, 14:28
The ARC CD players are absolutely stellar, the only down side being that the affordable ones like the CD3 and Reference 7 don't have digital inputs, so if at any point you wanted to get into file-based replay / streaming you'd need a completely separate receiver/DAC arrangement.
I have pondered both of these players and there are some bargains around as people drift towards streaming solutions. I imagine they'd make pretty good transports too should you get into streaming and need a separate DAC with multiple inputs.
farflungstar
17-02-2018, 16:21
Totally understandable in the circumstances, I wish you better luck in the search for this and any other components, and I'm sorry my recommendation worked out so badly.No need to apologise. You weren't to know.
Adey
puddlesplasher
17-02-2018, 18:46
I have an Exposure MCX top loading CD player. It's in A1 condition and sounds great. This was/is their top CD player. This one doesn't have the outrigger feet so it can sit on a regular shelf. I don't know if it is of any interest to you but thought I would throw it in there.
Adey
Probably it is a risk on my part suggesting this in your CDP thread but why not see if there is a HiFi place near you that has a demo internet streamer/DAC you can borrow whilst you are looking for a replacement CDP? Then simply sign up to a free trial to a lossless streaming service (e.g. Tidal) and have a play. Zero cost (other than the petrol costs) and maybe you will be pleasantly surprised. Also you can have a sneek preview on the CD collection you are building up?
But perhaps not seeing that you pushed back previously on considering playing music without 'real' media. Just saying. :)
montesquieu
17-02-2018, 19:20
Lol I've just been bleating to Adey via PM about how rubbish streaming is compared to owning your owm media, and how I mainly use it for discovering new stuff (LPs or CDs) to buy!
The last thing I'd ship anywhere is a turntable. I got a Lenco a while back that was shipped to me loose in a box in a single skin of bubble wrap (around the whole thing including plastic lid), arm weights left on, platter left on, needless to say it arrived as a mixture of plastic shards and matchwood - this after I was assured it would be packed carefully.
I've had three TTs (plus arms) sent to me without any problems. Two were Thorens 124/II decks (one with an SME 3012 arm), both posted from within the UK, well packed and arrived in perfect condition.
The third was an EMT deck with arm and cartridge, which came from Hungary. The vendor was a professional seller of EMT turntables and was well experienced in packaging them for safe delivery (I exclanged several e-mails with him on the safe packaging). The bearing was drained and the oil supplied in a separate bottle; the platter was packed so that the bearing surfaces were not in contact; the arm removed and packaged separately; and the whole packed in a substantial wooden flight-standard packing case, with 2" of stiff foam insulation between the contents and the packing case. I picked it up from Stanstead airport freight department, only to find the packing case was so large I couldn't get it into the back of my car or in the boot, so had to unpack the case and take the contents only!
Again, I have bought a dozen or so cartridges and all have been very well packed and arrived safely without problem.
I must be blessed?
montesquieu
17-02-2018, 19:48
I've had three TTs (plus arms) sent to me without any problems. Two were Thorens 124/II decks (one with an SME 3012 arm), both posted from within the UK, well packed and arrived in perfect condition.
The third was an EMT deck with arm and cartridge, which came from Hungary. The vendor was a professional seller of EMT turntables and was well experienced in packaging them for safe delivery (I exclanged several e-mails with him on the safe packaging). The bearing was drained and the oil supplied in a separate bottle; the platter was packed so that the bearing surfaces were not in contact; the arm removed and packaged separately; and the whole packed in a substantial wooden flight-standard packing case, with 2" of stiff foam insulation between the contents and the packing case. I picked it up from Stanstead airport freight department, only to find the packing case was so large I couldn't get it into the back of my car or in the boot, so had to unpack the case and take the contents only!
Again, I have bought a dozen or so cartridges and all have been very well packed and arrived safely without problem.
I must be blessed?
It's a numbers game. Some years alone I must have shipped in or out a dozen cartridges.
Lol I've just been bleating to Adey via PM about how rubbish streaming is compared to owning your owm media, and how I mainly use it for discovering new stuff (LPs or CDs) to buy!
Well your vinyl setup sure sounded better than your streaming setup when I came over last month Tom. Maybe you have not set up your streaming items correctly? lol :lol:
Nah joking aside - horses for courses and all that. For a while now I have not had vinyl or CDs in my system so can't comment much other than to say what I hear is highly engaging (mixture of local files and Tidal lossless).
Anyway I hope Adey gets to where he wants soon, must have been very frustrating of late.
I don't have a cd player in my setup but I listen to CDs all the time.
I just rip them to my Nas drive and then stream them to my Network Audio Adapter.
Might be the way to go.
Plenty people on computer audio forums say that ripped files sound better than the CD.
[emoji6]
Mike Reed
17-02-2018, 21:50
The other contender is Lector, their latest MK3 which has great reviews - I just need to check servicing.
A very good contender, providing your A.R.C. doesn't have too sensitive inputs, as the CDT 7 shunts out a very healthy voltage; at least, my mark 2 did. Very undersung machines and reliable, too. There must be a Spanish agent, I'd've thought, being next door, as it were.
Lol I've just been bleating to Adey via PM about how rubbish streaming is compared to owning your owm media, and how I mainly use it for discovering new stuff (LPs or CDs) to buy!
Not if it's done right [essentially it's about addressing and elimninating noise, as computers and their associated circuitry are inherently noisy]...;)
What do you use, Tom, to stream music? :)
Marco.
montesquieu
18-02-2018, 00:02
Not if it's done right [essentially it's about addressing and elimninating noise, as computers and their associated circuitry are inherently noisy]...;)
What do you use, Tom, to stream music? :)
Marco.
It's not the sound that's the issue Marco, I use a Mutec MC3+USB SPDIF interface (asynchronous, galvanic isolation of the USB, super-evolved master clock etc etc) into the same Audio Note DAC I use with my AN CDT2/II transport and if I'm honest I'd be hard put to tell any difference between the two. It's very good indeed.
It's the user experience that gets on my tits - I much prefer vinyl and CD where available, I think the streaming interface cheapens the experience.
My vinyl remains better than digital and with the amount of effort, in terms of research, trial and error and setup time (and cash of course) that I've invested in optimizing my vinyl front end ... I can't see that changing almost regardless what I do on the digital side. With 4000+ LPs, it's worth the effort too.
I also much prefer vinyl to physically handle and listen to for precisely the reason I prefer CD over streaming - the connection to the physical object, as well as access to sleeve notes, librettos, performer details and so on.
I treasure my LPs (and quite a few CDs as well), in many cases for a whole rich complex of reasons relating to time, place and memory as much as to music. I simply don't get that when using a search interface to an online database spitting out playlists with variable levels of useful metadata. (I also have enough of PCs when I want to sit down and relax, I'm all day in front of a damned screen).
WESTLOWER
18-02-2018, 00:19
Indeed streaming is very good, and I really use it more than I ever thought I would (CDs I have ditched, as I hated the format and packaging etc.) but it totally misses the tactile element of the whole experience.
No matter how comprehensive Roon and the like get, it can never replicate that. As said, when you have a lifetime's worth of vinyl and all the history and memories that come with it, extracting the best from it seems almost an obligation!
It's not the sound that's the issue Marco...It's the user experience that gets on my tits - I much prefer vinyl and CD where available, I think the streaming interface cheapens the experience.
Ah, no worries... I completely agree, as I feel the same and much prefer vinyl. I thought you were talking from an SQ point of view (over CD), as in that respect when done right, streaming can sound superb and most certainly isn't CD's 'poor relation' :)
Marco.
P.S I'm also with you, Adam!
Anyway I hope Adey gets to where he wants soon, must have been very frustrating of late.
+1 (with bells on). The dialogue on ebay, published between Eddie and him, was rather revealing.
In fairness, I think Eddie's a more reasonable guy than warranted by the "dickhead" moniker he was given, but he does appear to get stressed rather easily (as he continually mentions that), probably because he's not comfortable with confrontational situations, which of course by escalating the matter to a claim and making some unfortunate remarks about Adrian's 'misuse' of the unit [when clearly that wasn't the case], rather than working with him instead to resolve the matter in the first place (as is happening now), he rather brought on himself... :rolleyes:
Anyway, I do hope that Adrian gets things sorted soon and finds a CD player he likes, which will give him years of trouble-free musical pleasure! :cool:
Marco.
It's not the sound that's the issue Marco, I use a Mutec MC3+USB SPDIF interface (asynchronous, galvanic isolation of the USB, super-evolved master clock etc etc) into the same Audio Note DAC I use with my AN CDT2/II transport and if I'm honest I'd be hard put to tell any difference between the two. It's very good indeed.
It's the user experience that gets on my tits - I much prefer vinyl and CD where available, I think the streaming interface cheapens the experience.
My vinyl remains better than digital and with the amount of effort, in terms of research, trial and error and setup time (and cash of course) that I've invested in optimizing my vinyl front end ... I can't see that changing almost regardless what I do on the digital side. With 4000+ LPs, it's worth the effort too.
I also much prefer vinyl to physically handle and listen to for precisely the reason I prefer CD over streaming - the connection to the physical object, as well as access to sleeve notes, librettos, performer details and so on.
I treasure my LPs (and quite a few CDs as well), in many cases for a whole rich complex of reasons relating to time, place and memory as much as to music. I simply don't get that when using a search interface to an online database spitting out playlists with variable levels of useful metadata. (I also have enough of PCs when I want to sit down and relax, I'm all day in front of a damned screen).
I feel exactly the same way, I am very happy with my vinyl, CD, and FM radio. I am thinking about streaming, but not quite there yet.
Russell
That is also my position Russell, I'm put off taking the plunge because of the myriads of options available, with no clear winner giving me; value for money, ease and flexibility of use with a good interface, and above all, quality of sound.
Surely a simple and best option can be developed which cuts through.
rarely a clear winner for anything like this tbh. most of the systems are pretty decent, and its more what ticks your boxes
Thread now moved from the classifieds section, into Digital Expressions, as the discussion is now more relevant there - and in fact has been for some time! :)
Marco.
I feel exactly the same way, I am very happy with my vinyl, CD, and FM radio. I am thinking about streaming, but not quite there yet.Just
Russell
But Russell you already stream using well regarded tech - it is called FM radio. Just uses wideband frequency modulation rather than ADC/DAC techniques. :)
Mike Reed
18-02-2018, 11:25
I feel exactly the same way, I am very happy with my vinyl, CD, and FM radio. I am thinking about streaming, but not quite there yet.
Russell
I AM there; I've stopped even thinking about adding another source, let alone a digital one, which I'd probably not understand anyway ! I never get fed up playing the records and CDs I have, with the occasional sortie into R3 on my main system. New stuff for me is usually old stuff anyway, and recently discovering jazz (partly via R3), I'll be long dead before I crave 'new music' via downloads or whatever means.
But Russell you already stream using well regarded tech - it is called FM radio. Just uses wideband frequency modulation rather than ADC/DAC techniques. :)
And it doesn’t cost a cent!
That doesn’t mean I can’t see the value in streaming. For about the cost of one CD a month, you can have access to millions.
The DAC in my Cary CD player has external inputs, i could easily connect a steaming device into it. It’s not that I haven’t considered it, and feel that I will eventually wind up streaming. But for now, I just do not feel any rush to get there. This is a situation where the longer you wait, the better options will be available.
Russell
"This is a situation where the longer you wait, the better options will be available."
My hope is that there will be a game changing breakthrough. (Like the Mac used to be in comparison with PCs.)
"This is a situation where the longer you wait, the better options will be available."
My hope is that there will be a game changing breakthrough. (Like the Mac used to be in comparison with PCs.)
What form do you imagine that taking? Streaming has been around for a while and I don't see any sign of anything changing. They need to start making money from it at some point, so that might change things, but not in a good way.
It seems to me that by definition radical breakthroughs are difficult to predict, and also determine the nature of.
I'm thinking primarily of the interface/route between files and the user.
Sherwood
19-02-2018, 10:21
That is also my position Russell, I'm put off taking the plunge because of the myriads of options available, with no clear winner giving me; value for money, ease and flexibility of use with a good interface, and above all, quality of sound.
Surely a simple and best option can be developed which cuts through.
The real world is not like this. Change is constant and not always in the preferred direction. As to vfm and good sound, at £30 the Chromecast Audio is a steal, particularly if you system can take an optical feed. For better SQ, RPi devices are hard to beat, with prices starting at under £100 including case, sd card, and power supply. Yes, vinyl can sound better than digital but frankly not at these prices. A decent cartridge costs more than a complete RPi front end. You may be uncomfortable taking the plunge, but there are definitely many good quality vfm alternatives out there. The prospect of a single, universally rated best solution emerging in my lifetime is not realistic.
Geoff
Excellent post, Geoff. I completely concur :)
The problem with adopting the use of a streaming/file-based audio source is that you need to have some basic ability/understanding of using computers and the software/interfaces necessary (and how they all 'talk' to each other), in order to get the whole shebang to work.
I have to confess that if I hadn't had a friend, who was completely au fait with the whole process, come to my house and initially set-up my RPI/Moode system for me, with my router and associated NAS drives, I'd not have had a clue, and otherwise would've been unlikely to have embraced file-based audio.
So unless you have someone to call on like that, or possess an aptitude for such things, you really need the existence of a great sounding and affordable, 'plug and play' FBA source, with a user-friendly interface, which is piss-easy to operate (and maintain) for all 'non techies' [and I mean piss-easy], and for whom 'getting jiggy with computer technology' is a complete anathema.
Is there such a device in the current marketplace? Not that I'm aware of... And that's your problem!
Marco.
But as time moves on things are getting easier and easier Marco. Check out for example Bluesound Vault 2 which which has a super easy setup process - 4 simple steps and you are done.
Anyone who can load an app onto their smartphone or tablet will be able to use a Bluesound or similar unit.
For sure in the past there was a lot of 'jiggling' required but increasingly less so now.
I would love to go the opposite way and get a well set up TT system but I fear the steep learning curve (and expense). :)
Sent via Tapatalk
Pieoftheday
20-02-2018, 07:56
Excellent post, Geoff. I completely concur :)
The problem with adopting the use of a streaming/file-based audio source is that you need to have some basic ability/understanding of using computers and the software/interfaces necessary (and how they all 'talk' to each other), in order to get the whole shebang to work.
I have to confess that if I hadn't had a friend, who was completely au fait with the whole process, come to my house and initially set-up my RPI/Moode system for me, with my router and associated NAS drives, I'd not have had a clue, and otherwise would've been unlikely to have embraced file-based audio.
So unless you have someone to call on like that, or possess an aptitude for such things, you really need the existence of a great sounding and affordable, 'plug and play' FBA source, with a user-friendly interface, which is piss-easy to operate (and maintain) for all 'non techies' [and I mean piss-easy], and for whom 'getting jiggy with computers' is a complete anathema.
Is there such a device in the current marketplace? Not that I'm aware of... And that's your problem!
Marco.
I think all of the novafidelity units, also known as cocktail audio outside the UK, are such a device, I don't use mine to stream but it's just a matter of signing up to which ever service you prefer and your away:)
Anyone who can load an app onto their smartphone or tablet will be able to use a Bluesound or similar unit.
I have no idea how to do that and I suspect neither does Marco. Never underestimate the ability of people to avoid new technology ;)
Never underestimate the ability of people to avoid new technology ;)
Lol :lol: I am only slowly beginning to glean the profound truth behind this succinct statement of yours. :youtheman:
Ammonite Audio
20-02-2018, 09:32
I'm with Marco on this - while I do use a standalone Lenovo sub-notebook running JRiver MC17 and Fidelizer Pro to play my CD music library over USB, it's not even connected to the internet and I won't upgrade it because all too often 'progress' simply means more features, with little or no actual benefits. I am no more likely to tinker with RPi etc than to start fiddling with the ECU of my car!
One of my customers has an Innuos Zenith music server, which is the closest thing that I've seen and heard which delivers genuinely lovely sound with all the online streaming options that I don't yet understand, and a nice control interface. I was quite surprised when I found out that it wasn't stupidly expensive.
Because I can't ignore streaming etc for ever, I am going to get a Clef Audio Zero One streamer (http://www.ziroaudio.com/clef-audio/) to play with, which is apparently very good and conspicuously good value. That said, the new Lyngdorf TDAi3400 integrated amplifier (http://lyngdorf.com/news-lyngdorf-audio-launches-new-amplifier-and-loudspeaker/) that was announced last week has some sort of in-built network streaming facility, so maybe that will be the answer (just one box is good).
Cycleallday
20-02-2018, 09:52
Excellent post, Geoff. I completely concur :)
The problem with adopting the use of a streaming/file-based audio source is that you need to have some basic ability/understanding of using computers and the software/interfaces necessary (and how they all 'talk' to each other), in order to get the whole shebang to work.
I have to confess that if I hadn't had a friend, who was completely au fait with the whole process, come to my house and initially set-up my RPI/Moode system for me, with my router and associated NAS drives, I'd not have had a clue, and otherwise would've been unlikely to have embraced file-based audio.
So unless you have someone to call on like that, or possess an aptitude for such things, you really need the existence of a great sounding and affordable, 'plug and play' FBA source, with a user-friendly interface, which is piss-easy to operate (and maintain) for all 'non techies' [and I mean piss-easy], and for whom 'getting jiggy with computers' is a complete anathema.
Is there such a device in the current marketplace? Not that I'm aware of... And that's your problem!
Marco.
It’s worth remembering the Pi/DAC route is one using a product designed to be an educational/ earning tool and not a plug and play solution.
I have just installed a Naim Atom and the setup was really simple and quick - even WiFi network connection only needed a button push on my router. I recon the whole setup was under 5 mins from switch on and the hardest part is learning your way around the app but even that was not needed as a remote and on screen menu on the Atom means you don’t even need to read any paper/online instructions instructions. Getting to music was way faster than setting up a record deck.
Mel
Sherwood
20-02-2018, 10:02
Although I am reasonably tech savvy, I have no experience with Linux. However, by following instructions and trial and a process of trial and error, I was able to set up an RPi streamer. The latest version of Volumio is pretty straightforward and so long as you follow the instructions rigorously, can get a basic system up and running.
I understand that not everyone is able or willing to go down this path. To use a skiing analogy, I would equate RPi systems as a blue/red run (on the ascending scale of difficulty of green, blue, red, black). Of course, for some, a green run carries the terror equivalent of a black run for others. Their perception of streaming technology is unlikely to be changed by any posts on this forum. Having said that, who would have predicted the rise of smartphones 20 years ago, or the widespread adoption of streaming technology in the form of Netflix, iPlayer, or Amazon Prime. I am guessing that more than 90% of new tvs are smart devices, with built in apps for a range of streaming services. Most of these devices will have an optical output so that audio can be fed into a dac or one of the new generation of combined dac/amps. Given that most younger folk do not appear to buy cds or even whole albums any more, I would predict an exponential growth in the adoption of audio streaming over the next decade, as has occurred with tv and movies.
Is there the audio steaming equivalent of the Polaroid Camera in existence now? I would say yes. The Cocktail Audio devices have already been mentioned. The Cambridge CXN can be used as a Web Radio Streamer, and by plugging an external usb drive in, one can stream ripped files without the hassle of locating drives on networks.
I would nominate a device that is still in production after several years (I still have mine) https://www.amazon.co.uk/WD-WDBPUF0000NBK-EESN-TV-Media-Player/dp/B00KHL6CFE/ref=dp_ob_title_ce
Consider this the audiovisual Swiss Army Knife. It connects to your tv or monitor, and has an optical out for audio too. It comes with a remote control and a really user friendly interface via the tv. It will play almost any digital format both audio and visual. The quality is very good and especially so at the price. Again, all you need to do is plug a usb drive with your files into the usb slot and away you go, although you can also access media on a local network too. Definitely the equivalent of a green run.
Geoff
Mike Reed
20-02-2018, 10:31
...Never underestimate the ability of people to avoid new technology ;)
I resemble that remark !
From me originally:
"That is also my position Russell, I'm put off taking the plunge because of the myriads of options available, with no clear winner giving me; value for money, ease and flexibility of use with a good interface, and above all, quality of sound.
Surely a simple and best option can be developed which cuts through."
Geoff's reply:
"The real world is not like this."
I do not understand what I am depicting to which you are referring, and do not feel this comment to be erroneous.
I think that such 'revolutions' do occur, despite the ongoing gradual progress you describe, only some of which is progress.
Although apparently good at languages, I have little interest in computing, having other priorities with my time, and regard the 'discipline' as lacking intellectual rigour, this illustrated by computer people's usage of a single word in a sentence meaning different things in each case. I also have found duplicity and illogical processes in the thinking of computer people, an example shown on a dialogue interface on a website only an hour ago.
Although with a background in science and engineering, and a career in the latter just beneath C. Eng. level, I have educational aspirations in other directions, with guitar, piano and song writing as ambitions, and have also put ten years into speaker design work, and do not want yet another discipline to study.
When I use a knife to cut bread, I do not want to have to study the materials of the blade and handle, and the design structure or development, unless it is of particular special personal interest.
As a retiree is, I have no availability of access to specific valuable formal education, and one in which I have to rely on the 'hearsay' advice from others on this topic.
Surely there is somebody whose specialist knowledge is on just this growth area.
It is however evident to me that computing is going to dominate not only technology, but also our lives.
If technology gets better and makes streaming music easier, or with greater Fidelity, or any type of improvement, then it will be worth having waited for it. But, if it should get worse, exceedingly complicated with no increase in fidelity, then there is always the old gear to fall back on, we won’t loose the old way of doing it. Much as everyone in our group uses old stereo. If newer tech in audio doesn’t wow us, or is exceedingly expensive, we fall back on the old tech that we know works! I see threads on people refurbishing 40 year old record players, rebuilding equally old speakers, amps, etc. the failures of main stream audio today, cheaply made Surround Sound receivers with 11 channels and tiny little sound bars, doesn’t phase a true audiophile! So I suggest that streaming technology may very well get better in the future, but it can’t get worse, because the gear in use today has set a standard. Hopefully they won’t make any changes that would render present day gear obsolete. But again, I’ve seen dumber things happen.
In my personal case, I’m not really waiting on streaming to get better, I’m just waiting on me wanting it. At present, I am not moved. It’s seems I have other wants that I deem more important to me personally, a better phono cartridge, a better preamp, I’ve got a few cables that need upgrading. streaming seems world’s away right now. If I get the itch to stream in 5 years, I really don’t think I’ll have missed anything. “Remember how great streaming was back in the old days?”, I don’t see it.
Russell
Sherwood
20-02-2018, 11:52
From me originally:
"That is also my position Russell, I'm put off taking the plunge because of the myriads of options available, with no clear winner giving me; value for money, ease and flexibility of use with a good interface, and above all, quality of sound.
Surely a simple and best option can be developed which cuts through."
Geoff's reply:
"The real world is not like this."
I do not understand what I am depicting to which you are referring, and do not feel this comment to be erroneous.
I think that such 'revolutions' do occur, despite the ongoing gradual progress you describe, only some of which is progress.
Although apparently good at languages, I have little interest in computing, having other priorities with my time, and regard the 'discipline' as lacking intellectual rigour, this illustrated by computer people's usage of a single word in a sentence meaning different things in each case. I also have found duplicity and illogical processes in the thinking of computer people, an example shown on a dialogue interface on a website only an hour ago.
Although with a background in science and engineering, and a career in the latter just beneath C. Eng. level, I have educational aspirations in other directions, with guitar, piano and song writing as ambitions, and have also put ten years into speaker design work, and do not want yet another discipline to study.
When I use a knife to cut bread, I do not want to have to study the materials of the blade and handle, and the design structure or development, unless it is of particular special personal interest.
As a retiree is, I have no availability of access to specific valuable formal education, and one in which I have to rely on the 'hearsay' advice from others on this topic.
Surely there is somebody whose specialist knowledge is on just this growth area.
It is however evident to me that computing is going to dominate not only technology, but also our lives.
Analogue recording technology has been around for more than a century and I am not aware of any "best option" that has cut through. Consider the turntable, arm, cartridge options: belt vs direct drive; suspended chassis vs non-suspended; moving coil vs moving magnet; linear tracking vs conventional radial. Where is the consensus on the best analogue front end let alone the best analogue system factoring in various stages of amplification and loudspeaker options. Whilst one person may have a strong preference for a particular combination at a given price point, others will have different (subjective) preferences. As with analogue, there will never be a "single best" options because we are not homogenous in our tastes and preferences.
In a forum like this you will get subjective assessments of the merits of different pieces of kit, both singly and in combination with other pieces of kit (synergy is a big thing in audio). To describe this as hearsay is to do contributors an injustice. In general usage, the term hearsay relates to unsubstantiated claims of what another party said. In legal terms, it is about the admissibility of unverified claims by a witnesses of what another party said. What you describe as hearsay on this forum is first hand experience. Yes it is subjective: it cannot be anything else, but it is evidently not hearsay (unless the posting is reporting another person's claims).
I can understand your desire to have a simple to use device at a good price. As to sound quality, I cannot know what that is for you. You will need to go out and listen to various options and decide how much you are willing or need to spend to get the SQ you aspire to. However, there are many devices out there which are easy to use and IMHO offer very good sound quality. I have a Chromecast Audio in a good bedroom system. I use it with the Deezer app and once installed it is simply a matter of switching playback to the Chromecast. On the vfm front, I strongly recommend this https://www.amazon.co.uk/WD-TV-Live-Media-Player/dp/B005NYOKC2/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1519126800&sr=1-1&keywords=WD+TV+Media Not hearsay as I have this unit! It is the audio-visual Swiss Army Knife and will play almost any file, including graphics files. You do not even need to mess around with networking options as you can play files directly from usb drives.
Frankly, you need to get out and listen to these devices rather than relying on the opinions expressed in this forum. This is true of all hifi purchasing decisions. My main point is, that there are a number of devices available at different price points which offer good sound quality and simplicity of use. Personally, I think it is hard to beat the Rpi options in terms of performance/price ratio. That is why I have spent a little bit of time learning to set them up. Truth is, once set up the interface is extremely user friendly, at least with Volumio, which is what I eventually settled on.
Geoff
I have no idea how to do that and I suspect neither does Marco. Never underestimate the ability of people to avoid new technology ;)
Haha - indeed!:D
As you know, I don't even OWN a smartphone. I simply have no need for one, as I only use the Internet at home (where I work from), and have a laptop for that purpose, so the 'app conundrum' mentioned is of no relevance, although I'm sure that if I really wanted to, I could perform the task; it's just that I have no need or desire to.
I also have no desire to be 'connected' 24/7, and indeed often find it refreshing to be disconnected ('off-grid', as it were), especially when I'm out and about in the real world, and enjoying my surroundings - the polar opposite of most people these days, who are permanently glued to their smartphones, and aren't even aware of theirs! :rolleyes:
However, I only "avoid new technology" if I consider that it's of no real benefit to me, which is why I don't own a smartphone (tablet or kindle), but instead have a smart TV, as that's something I'd actually use (and frequently do), as it's great!
Therefore, I simply cherry-pick which technological devices to buy into or not, as I'm no sheep, who feels that he must 'follow the herd' and thus invest in the latest new fad, simply to be considered as 'fashionable', or even by some, 'normal'... Long live such 'abnormality', I say!:eyebrows:
However, a superb example of technology at work, at its best, was experienced recently when I had an issue with some of the Sony equipment associated with my home-cinema system, and I phoned up Sony's helpline in London for advice. The girl there simply asked me for the model and serial number of the item in question, and to confirm that it was successfully connected to the Internet, which all of my home-cinema gear is.
This would then allow her to remotely access it (my TV), from her location, and fix the problem for me! No joke, I was sitting there watching her using the TV's control panel and clicking on things, making the necessary changes, in order to resolve my problem, which she did, in jig time!!:eek:
No more fannying around with manuals or having to mess around yourself at the back of equipment. Now *that* is a great example of technology 'at work', at its best, which I'm extremely grateful for :cool:
Marco.
I do have a smart phone but it stopped doing 'the internet' a while back for no discernible reason. I had not touched any settings or anything. I simply can't be arsed to piss about with it trying to get it back, or spend hours on the 'phone to 'customer services.' Back in 1990 I could have told you anything you wanted to know about computers and knocked you up a program to do anything, even in machine code if you wanted. But the world moved on and I didn't and I have no real desire to catch up with it.
I also have a smart tv. I skipped the bit in the set-up guide about connecting to the internet. Why does a tv need to be connected to the internet anyway? Why can't we just have one thing doing one job the way it used to be?
I think all of the novafidelity units, also known as cocktail audio outside the UK, are such a device, I don't use mine to stream but it's just a matter of signing up to which ever service you prefer and your away:)
Fair enough, I'm not familiar with the units from Novafidelity, or indeed some of the other items that have been mentioned in recent posts. Someone mentioned Naim, and whilst I've no doubt that most of what Naim (or Linn) produce in relation to file-based audio, is excellent, it comes at a price.
What I'm taking about (and the only reason I got into streaming music in the first place) is a user-friendly solution (in that respect, as easy to use for a layman as a Polaroid camera), which is cost-effective, and in that respect I'm talking no more than £1k, and which sonically, can compete with similar items from high-end manufacturers, and also expensive CDPs.
Now whilst I acknowledge that my RPI/IQ-Audio/Moode system isn't quite as easy to set up or use, as an audio source, as a Polaroid camera is to operate as a camera, it unquestionably *can* compete sonically with much more expensive devices on the market, and also top-notch CDPs, as the RPI gets about 85% of the way towards sounding as good as my highly modified £4k Sony CDP/DAC, which itself can trounce some more expensive CDPs on the market.
And that's largely because, in my FBA set up, nasty, cheap, switch-mode PSUs have been removed throughout the chain and replaced with high-quality linear regulated ones, both powering the RPI/IQ Audio DAC, and crucially also my NAS drives, which removes a whole load of noise from the equation, otherwise fatally detrimental to faithful and enjoyable music replay.
For that reason alone, I wouldn't entertain using some of the equipment suggested, as it'll be fatally hobbled by a crappy SMPS....
Furthermore, one thing that that's rarely mentioned with file-based audio music streaming, is what happens for the tech non-savvy, when something goes wrong??
You may have been able to successfully get things working at the beginning (often more due to luck than anything else), but would you be able to fix a problem if (as can often happen), your device(s) simply refuse to work, or crash, often corrupting the whole system? Computers are notoriously temperamental!
And if you've got no other way of playing music (many folks will have ditched most, if not all, of their physical music media and associated hardware, after embracing FBA), then you're basically fooked until when (or if) you're able to fix it, or get help from someone who can.
This is especially pertinent if you've gone the route of buying less well-known equipment from solely an on-line source, which may offer no back up other than a user forum, or some such, where you'd have to trawl through threads trying to find something relevant to fixing your problem, and crucially, understanding what to do from the instructions written.
Different if you've bought gear, through a dealer, from the likes of Naim or Linn, or some other major hi-fi manufacturer with a proper customer support network, where in the event of a problem you'd simply consult them for help.
Therefore, with an FBA set up, it's not just about getting the initial system set up and running; it's also about maintaining it that way!
And so there's no way I'd have entertained getting into it, if there wasn't someone that I could turn to quickly for help, if necessary. That's definitely something that the tech non-savvy should consider before going the FBA route....
Ok, so based on ALL of the above, could someone tell me any music streaming device, currently available on the market, which fulfils all of the following criteria:
1) Costs no more than £1k (including a partnering DAC), and features the use of fully regulated linear PSUs throughout.
2) Is as simple to set up and use, for the non-tech savvy, as a Polaroid camera.
3) Can compete, sonically, with much more expensive items from 'badged' high-end manufacturers.
4) Is 'schoolboy-easy' simple to fix, for the non-tech savvy, in the event of a problem and/or which is fully supported, in terms of troubleshooting, by the company who produce and/or sell it (and here I'm talking about help only being a phone call away).
:popcorn: :hmm:
The RPI/IQ Audio DAC, upgraded with a fully regulated linear PSU, does that for me, but ONLY because I have a tech-savvy friend to call upon for help if necessary!
Marco.
im alway wary of spending too much on a technology that can be outdated and unservicable just after you buy it. the rpi in this respect shows most a clean pair of heels. cheap to replace things and if it all goes tits up your losses aint too bad. i couldnt be happier with the battery i use as a psu as well. very quiet.
I do have a smart phone but it stopped doing 'the internet' a while back for no discernible reason. I had not touched any settings or anything. I simply can't be arsed to piss about with it trying to get it back, or spend hours on the 'phone to 'customer services.'
Indeed, such is the nature of computers, which let's not forget is precisely what a 'smartphone' is! And the very same thing (refusing to work for no apparent reason) can happen with a file-based audio source, and sometimes it can be a real bollocks to fix.
I also have a smart tv. I skipped the bit in the set-up guide about connecting to the internet. Why does a tv need to be connected to the internet anyway? Why can't we just have one thing doing one job the way it used to be?
I should've thought that my experience highlighted with the Sony helpline was more than enough of an answer to that!;)
Also, you can no longer think of your smart TV, simply as a TV, because it's no more 'just a TV', than your smartphone is 'simply a phone'....
What you've essentially got fixed to your lounge wall is a very large-screened computer, providing you with (if set up that way) full access to the Internet (yes I sometimes post here from my TV, lol), all your emails, YouTube, with its myriad of FREE music, films and TV programmes to watch and listen to, which if your TV is connected up to a decent hi-fi system, can sound (and look) superb, especially if it and/or your home-cinema amp upscales the content to 4K.
And some of the apps are fantastic. I've got one where I can access live classical music performances of the Berliner Philharmoniker, playing in Berlin, and the visuals (on a top-notch 4K TV) and sound quality are stunning!! It's literally as if you are *there*, as part of the audience.
Why wouldn't I want to have that? :)
Marco.
im alway wary of spending too much on a technology that can be outdated and unservicable just after you buy it. the rpi in this respect shows most a clean pair of heels. cheap to replace things and if it all goes tits up your losses aint too bad.
Yup, and if something needs updated or upgraded, either in the RPI itself or IQ Audio DAC, which of course is built into the former, one company or the other will offer an interchangeable (low-cost) 'plug and play' replacement part, so there's no danger of any aspect of it becoming obsolete - everything is kept up to date at all times :)
Good point about not spending too much money on technology, which is an ever-evolving entity... Can you imagine buying Naim or Linn's 'greatest new streamer', for £5k, or whatever, and within a year or two, the technology used becomes outdated and easily improved upon by something else? :eek:
Bin it and start again, and spend even more money next time.... No, I don't think so!! :nono:
Marco.
Also, you can no longer think of your TV, simply as a TV, because it's no more 'just a TV', than your smartphone is simply a phone....
What you've essentially got fixed to your lounge wall is a very large-screened computer, providing you with (if set up that way) full access to the Internet (yes I sometimes post here from my TV, lol), all your emails, YouTube, with its myriad of FREE music and films to watch and listen to, which if your TV is connected up to a decent hi-fi system, can sound superb.
And some of the apps are fantastic. I've got one where I can access live classical music performances of the Berlin Philharmoniker, playing in Berlin, and the visuals and sound quality is stunning!! It's literally as if you are there in the audience.
Why wouldn't I want to have that? :)
Marco.
Yes, you are absolutely right of course and I do intend to set it up. But I am sorting problems all day at work, I don't really want to tussle with another one when I get home at night. of course it might all work perfectly straight off first time, but experience tells me this is unlikely. This is also the primary reason I avoid streaming. At the moment I can get in from work, pull a cd off the shelf, stick it in and press play. Nothing else to worry about.
The only thing that can go wrong there is the CD player fails. In that case I just hook up another one and off we go. No muss, no fuss. Whereas when your streaming goes wrong you will get a useful message like 'No Command Line Found Error 2665wnkr' and unless you are some sort of boffin you are stuffed.
Yes, you are absolutely right of course and I do intend to set it up. But I am sorting problems all day at work, I don't really want to tussle with another one when I get home at night. of course it might all work perfectly straight off first time, but experience tells me this is unlikely.
I get that. However, having done it now with a few different smart TVs (my own and others belonging to friends and family), I can confidently predict that if the equipment concerned is functioning properly, and you have a stable Internet home network, with a decent download speed, there are unlikely to be any issues, and the whole process should therefore unfold seamlessly :)
Marco.
Spectral Morn
20-02-2018, 14:08
I do have a smart phone but it stopped doing 'the internet' a while back for no discernible reason. I had not touched any settings or anything. I simply can't be arsed to piss about with it trying to get it back, or spend hours on the 'phone to 'customer services.' Back in 1990 I could have told you anything you wanted to know about computers and knocked you up a program to do anything, even in machine code if you wanted. But the world moved on and I didn't and I have no real desire to catch up with it.
I also have a smart tv. I skipped the bit in the set-up guide about connecting to the internet. Why does a tv need to be connected to the internet anyway? Why can't we just have one thing doing one job the way it used to be?
I watch you tube all the time on mine, and you can watch video content on your laptop via the net work on it as well. I would not be without my smart TV. Watching a concert via this is much better than the laptop screen.
George47
20-02-2018, 16:51
Excellent post, Geoff. I completely concur :)
The problem with adopting the use of a streaming/file-based audio source is that you need to have some basic ability/understanding of using computers and the software/interfaces necessary (and how they all 'talk' to each other), in order to get the whole shebang to work.
I have to confess that if I hadn't had a friend, who was completely au fait with the whole process, come to my house and initially set-up my RPI/Moode system for me, with my router and associated NAS drives, I'd not have had a clue, and otherwise would've been unlikely to have embraced file-based audio.
So unless you have someone to call on like that, or possess an aptitude for such things, you really need the existence of a great sounding and affordable, 'plug and play' FBA source, with a user-friendly interface, which is piss-easy to operate (and maintain) for all 'non techies' [and I mean piss-easy], and for whom 'getting jiggy with computer technology' is a complete anathema.
Is there such a device in the current marketplace? Not that I'm aware of... And that's your problem!
Marco.
Yes...it is called CD. Easy peasy to use and even sounds better.
montesquieu
20-02-2018, 17:10
Yes...it is called CD. Easy peasy to use and even sounds better.
:) yes indeed!
Haha - good one, George! Try setting up a day's worth-long playlist of music though, on a CD player (if you want to listen to music for hours, but are too busy to continually get up and down changing discs) :ner:;)
Also, don't forget that not all music now is available on CD, or that you're also talking about a music format that sooner, rather than later, will go the way of the dodo...
Music streaming is the future, whether we like it or not, so find your best solution for such, adopt it and smile :)
Marco.
:) yes indeed!
I thought you said on another thread, daftee, that it wasn't about sound? Or does that simply apply to your preference for vinyl, over streaming, and not your preference for CD over the latter? ;)
Marco.
montesquieu
20-02-2018, 17:27
I thought you said on another thread, daftee, that it wasn't about sound? Or does that simply apply to your preference for vinyl, over streaming, and not your preference for CD over the latter? ;)
Marco.
Vinyl
CD
File-based
Streaming
In that order.
I already have music that only exists in digital format (or at least that I only own in digital/file-based format) so I'm probably stuck with it but it's such an impoverished way to consume music, so much context is lost without proper information to go along with the music itself.
Having said that I'm probably on record somewhere in the early 80s insisting CD would never catch on, forget the sound, look at the richness of the LP back catalogue, how can CD ever compete with that? So I'm maybe not the best person to ask.
As far as sound goes there are no technical reasons why streaming should sound worse than a CD, or the opposite. Individual implementations will vary quite lot though.
No worries, Tom, I get that.
I also much prefer vinyl, and that will remain as my favourite way of listening to music, but I'm not so down on streaming, and certainly have no particular love for CD over it, as after all that's just some digital files, stored onto a disc!;)
For me therefore, streaming isn't any more of an "impoverished" way of listening to music, than a piece of plastic is, stored inside a mass-produced jewel case....:eyebrows:
Vinyl (or R2R) is where it's *at* for the true enthusiast - always was, and always will be.
Marco.
Geoff I did not mean to be derisive or legalistic when I used the word hearsay, I meant it loosely, rather to describe the fluctuation and diversity of opinions, not rumour mongering or tittle tattle, and certainly not in a critical way.
There have been so many posts since my last and most contain very relevant gems on the business of digital technologies, that I cannot recall all of the points which resonate with me, or the few with which I disagree - too tired.
I agree with Marco about a smartphone, I do not even have a mobile phone, and joke to people that I leave home if the phone rings to avoid it. I worry that so many people are glued to their phones that they are in effect missing material reality; that which those abstract representations are dealing with, and there is evidence of this damaging children's health.
I also had Norton take over my computer a few months ago, and watched them do things before my eyes to fix problems, this is very useful as a facility. In a Formula 1 race they now adjust settings remotely during the race.
There have been views expressed both ways on the relative quality of CD vs. streaming, so no clear winner it seems, but I think that the corporations will try to keep the CD format going because it is so profitable.
My ideal will be a new 65" TV (10' viewing distance for Emails), for all viewing in comfort with good stereo for films, and music streaming by separate device.
I agree that with investment in expensive toys there is always the risk of redundancy.
I get the impression that the rate of change of digital technology is so high, and has so many specialist subdivisions, that it is impossible for enthusiasts to keep up on all of them.
montesquieu
20-02-2018, 23:49
I also had Norton take over my computer a few months ago, and watched them do things before my eyes to fix problems, this is very useful as a facility. In a Formula 1 race they now adjust settings remotely during the race.
FWIW remote access is far from new it came bundled with most Macs back in the mid-90s.
I agree with Marco about a smartphone, I do not even have a mobile phone, and joke to people that I leave home if the phone rings to avoid it. I worry that so many people are glued to their phones that they are in effect missing material reality; that which those abstract representations are dealing with, and there is evidence of this damaging children's health.
Indeed... When I'm out and about, especially when I'm not driving, I like to be fully aware of [in touch with] my surroundings and what's going on around me, not only for safety reasons (as it would be so easy to get mugged, whilst plugged into, or glued to, a smartphone, and distracted by being engrossed in one's own little world), but because it's all part of the rich tapestry of life, especially as is often the case here in North Wales, the countryside is so beautiful.
Therefore, I want to enjoy the scenery, listen to the bids singing, admire the flowers and trees, the changing landscape of nature and generally feel like I'm alive, not cocooned inside some soulless 'virtual world'.
Hey, and get this for madness: when I'm out walking in the park or town, or maybe even sitting on a bus or train, I don't need to have a set of headphones strapped to my head, as [shock, horror] I can live without music for a few hours until I get home - or [double-shock, horror] I might even want to use that time to CHAT WITH SOMEONE, who like me, doesn't have a smartphone!!:eek::wowzer: [major weirdo alert];)
No wonder we're breeding a growing nation of zombies.........
Marco.
Don't use mine when outside much. Certainly not like the women who seem glued to it
legb4rsk
21-02-2018, 02:26
I am the same.Give me the real world that fills me with wonder and amazement everyday even after all these years.I remember when Walkmans became common & couldn't believe that people would cycle on a busy road wearing one!
I was using a Nokia 6310i until a few weeks ago.My daughter finally persuaded me to use an iPhone6 that she gave me.I still just use it as a phone :D.
I also have the habit of leaving my phone at home if I pop out for a while,shopping etc. Surely nothing is that urgent.I always recount to my kids that when I was a lad coming home from work that I don't remember everyone charging off the bus & rushing to the nearest phone box to tell their family they would be home in 5 minutes!
Sherwood
21-02-2018, 09:05
Don't use mine when outside much. Certainly not like the women who seem glued to it
Only women? Are men teflon coated then?
Geoff
These abstract representations of the actual reality, earlier paper and pen, now computers, pads and phones, are tools with which to aid dealing with the reality, not a substitute for it, but marketing and lack of self possession by a hard pushed populous, has it seems, resulted in them adopting it as the norm, filling up their lives.
A psychological concern about this high usage of virtual world communication, is that it can allow both apparent anonymity when behaving badly, and self deception, do people really have 1703 friends?
On the point of revolutionary development Geoff, I remembered the Goldmund Reference Laser turntable, surely that was a revolution but using the original 'files'. I accept though, that it was at about £5k, and I think far beyond most peoples affordability.
Don't use mine when outside much. Certainly not like the women who seem glued to it
Mine (shown below) stays in the car, switched off, until I'm going somewhere. The only reason I keep it there, is in the event of breaking down, so I can call the RAC, or to keep in touch with Del, when I'm away from home.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/fK8sWP.jpg
That's the sum total of my need for a mobile phone! Oh, and women are generally glued to their phones more, simply because they like to gossip on social media [yawn]. Thankfully, Del's not like that.
Marco.
P.S I've always liked Motorola phones, as they're generally a bit more stylish. They used to do some crackers, really compact too (especially the pop-open ones), which I liked, and which is the opposite of today's bulky and style-homogenised smartphones!
Hi Stewart,
I was using a Nokia 6310i until a few weeks ago.My daughter finally persuaded me to use an iPhone6 that she gave me.I still just use it as a phone :D.
Lol... And I bet you it performs WORSE as a phone, than your old Nokia did! That's because they're not designed to be good phones, especially when they're bogged down with apps; they're designed to be good at everything else other than what should be their primary function!!
I also have the habit of leaving my phone at home if I pop out for a while,shopping etc. Surely nothing is that urgent.I always recount to my kids that when I was a lad coming home from work that I don't remember everyone charging off the bus & rushing to the nearest phone box to tell their family they would be home in 5 minutes!
Lol - indeed! It would be comical, if it weren't so sad, what has now become 'the norm'. Thankfully, like you, I don't live in that rather superficial 'virtual world'. And as for nothing should be that urgent, absolutely, but people have now been conditioned to believe that they must be 'connected' 24/7:rolleyes:
How many folks with smartphones do you think keep them switched on, even at night in bed, in order to respond to their bleeping alerts...? It's just another form of brainwashing by 'the system', on the road to full 'zombiefication', and should be shunned at all costs...
Stay a free-thinker!
Marco.
Hi Stewart,
Lol... And I bet you it performs WORSE as a phone, than your old Nokia did! That's because they're not designed to be good phones, especially when they're bogged down with apps; they're designed to be good at everything else other than what should be their primary function!!
Lol - indeed! It would be comical, if it weren't so sad, what has now become 'the norm'. Thankfully, like you, I don't live in a 'virtual world'. And as for nothing should be that urgent, absolutely, but folks now have been conditioned to believe that they must be 'connected' 24/7.
How many folks with smartphones do you think keep them switched on, even at night in bed...? It's just another form of being brainwashed by 'the system', and should be shunned at all costs...
Marco.
lol... mine is on all the time and with me when i go places; yes even bed...i might need it:ner:
Yes, if you're elderly or infirm, that makes sense, but for everyone else, no. Get to bloody sleep, and enjoy some peace for a change!!
Marco.
:lolsign: less of the elderly and infirm..im firmish :eyebrows: you can either put them on silent or incommunicado at touch of a button you know :D
i keep mine close in case sommat happens. also if i have to lie down but not sleep i can keep an eye on this place :ner:
Sherwood
21-02-2018, 11:23
Geoff I did not mean to be derisive or legalistic when I used the word hearsay, I meant it loosely, rather to describe the fluctuation and diversity of opinions, not rumour mongering or tittle tattle, and certainly not in a critical way.
There have been so many posts since my last and most contain very relevant gems on the business of digital technologies, that I cannot recall all of the points which resonate with me, or the few with which I disagree - too tired.
I agree with Marco about a smartphone, I do not even have a mobile phone, and joke to people that I leave home if the phone rings to avoid it. I worry that so many people are glued to their phones that they are in effect missing material reality; that which those abstract representations are dealing with, and there is evidence of this damaging children's health.
I also had Norton take over my computer a few months ago, and watched them do things before my eyes to fix problems, this is very useful as a facility. In a Formula 1 race they now adjust settings remotely during the race.
There have been views expressed both ways on the relative quality of CD vs. streaming, so no clear winner it seems, but I think that the corporations will try to keep the CD format going because it is so profitable.
My ideal will be a new 65" TV (10' viewing distance for Emails), for all viewing in comfort with good stereo for films, and music streaming by separate device.
I agree that with investment in expensive toys there is always the risk of redundancy.
I get the impression that the rate of change of digital technology is so high, and has so many specialist subdivisions, that it is impossible for enthusiasts to keep up on all of them.
No problem. I was not suggesting that you are being derisive only that the term hearsay was inappropriate to describe what is diverging first-hand subjective reporting.
As to corporations maximising profits, I think previous experience conflicts with your assessment. The introduction of CDs back in the mid-80s was an opportunity for the record companies to resell us, at a much higher price, albums that we'd previously purchased on vinyl, cassette tape, or heaven forbid, eight track. I wonder how many people on this forum remember just how expensive CDs were when first introduced? IIRC most discs sold for around £14 or more. I will leave you to do the arithmetic as to what the equivalent cost is in today's money.
Don't get me started on redundant technology or the built-in obsolescence that underpins most technology these days. This deserves a thread all of its own.
Geoff
:lolsign: less of the elderly and infirm..im firmish :eyebrows: you can either put them on silent or incommunicado at touch of a button you know :D
i keep mine close in case sommat happens. also if i have to lie down but not sleep i can keep an eye on this place :ner:
Lol... If you've got a sensible reason for using your phone in that way, then go ahead. But not if it's simply to keep in touch with your 'mates' on Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter or whatever.
They'll still be there in the morning, so go and get some bloody sleep!! :exactly:
Marco.
Sherwood
21-02-2018, 12:13
I was a very late and reluctant adopter of mobile phones. As a kid my family couldn't afford a (landline) phone and at Uni I couldn't get one because of a shortage of new lines at the BT exchange, resulting in an indefinite waiting list. As a result, I did not grow up as a regular phone user (other than occasional use of the stinky phone booth at the end of our street).
I reluctantly purchased my first cell phone about 20 years ago (a Siemens S35 I think, which was at the time a pretty up market WAP phone). The impetus was that having gone self employed and travelling extensively for work, I needed to be easily contactable, and to quickly confirm my availability for projects. Initially, I was not impressed and resented the intrusion into my life of after work calls and messages. Gradually, I began to change my work practices and realised I did not have to take calls just because the phone rang. As the technology has developed, my work practices changed further. My phone is now my main tool for email communications, and has displaced standalone gps devices because of the real time route info. Years back, I acquired a good quality folding bluetooth keyboard, which allows me to make productive use of time spent waiting for trains, either composing emails, or adding to word documents or reports. Although, I would never use my phone for serious photography, it is an invaluable tool for capturing documents when a photocopier is unavailable, or for sending forms back as attachments. Over the last ten years, I have found a number of apps, which, although I may not use them frequently, have been immensely useful at times (not least Google translator).
The point is that as the notebook came to be an alternative to desktop pcs; and, as the tablet became an alternative to notebook pcs; the phone has become an alternative to the tablet. I fully understand that there may be many who do not require a pocket computer and there are many good quality basic phones that are available for £20-30. Indeed, I carry such a device for when I am working overseas and need a basic phone with long battery life. For many, such a device is sufficient, but for me they are a useful complement to a smartphone.
Many of the comments on this thread seem to relate to how smartphones are used, and the type of apps users favour. To me this is irrelevant. If somebody wants to spend half their life on whatever the latest instant messaging service is, that is their business. For me, the great advantage of the smartphone is its flexibility. I can load only the apps that are relevant to me; and incredibly, can install an app near instantly as a specific need arises. Yes, I get irritated, when I see idiots crossing the road with headphones on without checking for oncoming traffic; and, apoplectic when I see drivers on the phone or, worse, texting! Other than that, I say each to their own devices, whether that happens to be a £20 Nokia or a £1000 smartphone.
Geoff
Oh dear, I'm beginning to feel I'm in a minority of one. :lol:
Love my Samsung phone, Sennheiser Momentum headphones, Tidal and various podcasts whilst walking. Also the Waze app for navigating around the busy roads. And Whatsapp is awesome for keeping in touch with friends and family worldwide.
I was a very late and reluctant adopter of mobile phones. As a kid my family couldn't afford a (landline) phone and at Uni I couldn't get one because of a shortage of new lines at the BT exchange, resulting in an indefinite waiting list. As a result, I did not grow up as a regular phone user (other than occasional use of the stinky phone booth at the end of our street).
I reluctantly purchased my first cell phone about 20 years ago (a Siemens S35 I think, which was at the time a pretty up market WAP phone). The impetus was that having gone self employed and travelling extensively for work, I needed to be easily contactable, and to quickly confirm my availability for projects. Initially, I was not impressed and resented the intrusion into my life of after work calls and messages. Gradually, I began to change my work practices and realised I did not have to take calls just because the phone rang. As the technology has developed, my work practices changed further. My phone is now my main tool for email communications, and has displaced standalone gps devices because of the real time route info. Years back, I acquired a good quality folding bluetooth keyboard, which allows me to make productive use of time spent waiting for trains, either composing emails, or adding to word documents or reports. Although, I would never use my phone for serious photography, it is an invaluable tool for capturing documents when a photocopier is unavailable, or for sending forms back as attachments. Over the last ten years, I have found a number of apps, which, although I may not use them frequently, have been immensely useful at times (not least Google translator).
The point is that as the notebook came to be an alternative to desktop pcs; and, as the tablet became an alternative to notebook pcs; the phone has become an alternative to the tablet. I fully understand that there may be many who do not require a pocket computer and there are many good quality basic phones that are available for £20-30. Indeed, I carry such a device for when I am working overseas and need a basic phone with long battery life. For many, such a device is sufficient, but for me they are a useful complement to a smartphone.
Many of the comments on this thread seem to relate to how smartphones are used, and the type of apps users favour. To me this is irrelevant. If somebody wants to spend half their life on whatever the latest instant messaging service is, that is their business. For me, the great advantage of the smartphone is its flexibility. I can load only the apps that are relevant to me; and incredibly, can install an app near instantly as a specific need arises. Yes, I get irritated, when I see idiots crossing the road with headphones on without checking for oncoming traffic; and, apoplectic when I see drivers on the phone or, worse, texting! Other than that, I say each to their own devices, whether that happens to be a £20 Nokia or a £1000 smartphone.
Geoff
Good post. I only use mine as a 'phone and an alarm clock but I couldn't care less if other people spend their entire lives glued to them. They'd only be doing something equally pointless with their time otherwise, so what does it matter?
Oh dear, I'm beginning to feel I'm in a minority of one. :lol:
Love my Samsung phone, Sennheiser Momentum headphones, Tidal and various podcasts whilst walking.
Do you ever bump into things (lamp-posts, other 'iZombies' and shit) whilst you're 'enjoying' podcasts? How can you both see what's in front of you and stare at your phone?;)
There are some hilarious videos around of 'iZombies' bumping into all sorts of things!:D
Enjoy, but personally I couldn't think of anything more unnatural.
Also the Waze app for navigating around the busy roads. And Whatsapp is awesome for keeping in touch with friends and family worldwide.
Ah, London congestion syndrome... "Busy roads" round here usually only occur when rows of sheep are traversing from one field to the other. I'm with you though, on keeping in touch with friends and family worldwide - now that is a sensible use of technology! :)
Marco.
Good post. I only use mine as a 'phone and an alarm clock but I couldn't care less if other people spend their entire lives glued to them. They'd only be doing something equally pointless with their time otherwise, so what does it matter?
Because it's symptomatic of a deeper, and more serious issue in today's society, which Dennis outlined earlier. Read what he wrote again, and let it sink in;)
Post #338.
Marco.
Because it's symptomatic of a deeper, and more serious issue in today's society, which Dennis outlined earlier. Read his post again, and let it sink in;)
Marco.
Society doesn't have any issues now that it didn't have 500 years ago. Times change, people don't.
Totally disagree!! Technology has *created* the existence of the very problems Dennis and I have described.
But we'll leave that one for another thread;)
Marco.
Do you ever bump into things (lamp-posts, other 'iZombies' and shit) whilst you're 'enjoying' podcasts?;)
There are some hilarious videos around of that stuff!:D
Yes I have watched some of those zombie type vids. Good fun. Nah I take great care and anyway generally in parks and green areas (we have a lot around these parts) and of course only when I'm alone.
Ah, London congestion syndrome... "Busy roads" round here usually only occur when rows of sheep are traversing from one field to the other. I'm with you, though, on keeping in touch with friends and family worldwide - now that is a sensible use of technology! :)
Marco.
We have, for reasons lost in the mists of time, two cars and hardly use them as we have a very good public transport system. And for me the transport system is totally free. Mostly use cars for out of London travels. Not a lot of real sheep around these parts. Other types of sheep though. :eyebrows:
Yes I have watched some of those zombie type vids. Good fun. Nah I take great care and anyway generally in parks and green areas (we have a lot around these parts) and of course only when I'm alone.
Yes, it's always good fun laughing at idiots!!:D
No problem, enjoy. It's just not for me. I don't like divorcing myself like that from the real world, unless it's absolutely necessary. I'd rather watch the birds and squirrels, as I love nature.
We have, for reasons lost in the mists of time, two cars and hardly use them as we have a very good public transport system. And for me the transport system is totally free. Mostly use cars for out of London travels. Not a lot of real sheep around these parts. Other types of sheep though. :eyebrows:
Ha - ain't that the truth! I very rarely use the public transport system, even though round here it's pretty good, simply because I like to be in full control of when and where I'm travelling (and can't abide delays, crowds or queues of any description), so either walk or use the car.
I love driving (in a nice car), and round here the roads are mostly empty :)
Marco.
legb4rsk
21-02-2018, 13:30
Yes,the 6310i is a far superior phone to an iPhone6!
One other insidious side effect of 'smart' technology is that people work longer hours for no extra pay.People now habitually check & respond to emails at home in the evening & when on the way to work in the morning.This is now considered the norm.
Sound quality is better on the modern phones. Much clearer.
I see young people mostly, with their ear buds in as they walk, sit in a fast food restaurant, or even driving. Riding a motorcycle? I know people who have in dash stereos on their motorcycles! I can’t imagine why? While I play the radio in the car, I ride the bike to escape all that, plus my bike is far too loud for a stereo. Only my oldest friends call me on my smartphone, almost everyone else text’s! It is slow, tedious, and lacks the benefit of vocal inflections. But almost everyone I know does it.
And when I’m driving, and the phone rings, the urge to look at it is strong! Curiosity killed the cat, as they say. But I refuse to look at it until the car is stopped, for safety reasons. More accidents happen because of cell phones than due to alcohol now days! And when you are drunk and texting, wow, look out!
Back when I was a working stiff I hated cell phones and pagers, a noose around my neck for the boss to jerk on, 24 hours a day. But I do like many aspects of the modern smart phone, you actually have a full blown computer in your pocket! The other day I had a wait in the dirty waiting room of a tire shop, everyone in the waiting room was staring into their phones, as did I. A good chance to catch up on my reading. I originally got a cell phone for safety reasons, if I should break down on the road I cannot walk any distance, so it’s nice to have a safety net. But I see my younger family members are glued to their phones, they stay in constant contact with all of their friends, I saw my niece typing like crazy, I asked, “how many people are you talking to now?”, she casually said, “4”, my nephew holds his in his hand constantly, while we are having a conversation he picks up his phone and checks the screen every 30 seconds or so, he is only half into our conversation and half in his virtual world. I do not see this as healthy. Perhaps they will grow out out of it?
It seems that for everything new that is good, there is an equal evil it also brings. And it is also known that the government spies on everyone through their phone. That may sound paranoid, but just because you think everyone is out to get you, doesn’t mean they aren’t. An old movie quote I can’t place right now.
Russell
Sherwood
21-02-2018, 14:02
Yes,the 6310i is a far superior phone to an iPhone6!
One other insidious side effect of 'smart' technology is that people work longer hours for no extra pay.People now habitually check & respond to emails at home in the evening & when on the way to work in the morning.This is now considered the norm.
Not an issue if you are self employed though!
Geoff
I see young people mostly, with their ear buds in as they walk, sit in a fast food restaurant, or even driving. Riding a motorcycle? I know people who have in dash stereos on their motorcycles! I can’t imagine why? While I play the radio in the car, I ride the bike to escape all that, plus my bike is far too loud for a stereo. Only my oldest friends call me on my smartphone, almost everyone else text’s! It is slow, tedious, and lacks the benefit of vocal inflections. But almost everyone I know does it.
And when I’m driving, and the phone rings, the urge to look at it is strong! Curiosity killed the cat, as they say. But I refuse to look at it until the car is stopped, for safety reasons. More accidents happen because of cell phones than due to alcohol now days! And when you are drunk and texting, wow, look out!
Back when I was a working stiff I hated cell phones and pagers, a noose around my neck for the boss to jerk on, 24 hours a day. But I do like many aspects of the modern smart phone, you actually have a full blown computer in your pocket! The other day I had a wait in the dirty waiting room of a tire shop, everyone in the waiting room was staring into their phones, as did I. A good chance to catch up on my reading. I originally got a cell phone for safety reasons, if I should break down on the road I cannot walk any distance, so it’s nice to have a safety net. But I see my younger family members are glued to their phones, they stay in constant contact with all of their friends, I saw my niece typing like crazy, I asked, “how many people are you talking to now?”, she casually said, “4”, my nephew holds his in his hand constantly, while we are having a conversation he picks up his phone and checks the screen every 30 seconds or so, he is only half into our conversation and half in his virtual world. I do not see this as healthy. Perhaps they will grow out out of it?
It seems that for everything new that is good, there is an equal evil it also brings. And it is also known that the government spies on everyone through their phone. That may sound paranoid, but just because you think everyone is out to get you, doesn’t mean they aren’t. An old movie quote I can’t place right now.
Russell
Catch 22.. the great Joseph Heller.. also good as gold and god knows are both brilliant books
Yes,the 6310i is a far superior phone to an iPhone6!
One other insidious side effect of 'smart' technology is that people work longer hours for no extra pay.People now habitually check & respond to emails at home in the evening & when on the way to work in the morning.This is now considered the norm.
dunno. way back before them we had 2 way radio in our cars and vans. it didnt make us work any harder, but it did improve productivity
One other insidious side effect of 'smart' technology is that people work longer hours for no extra pay.People now habitually check & respond to emails at home in the evening & when on the way to work in the morning.This is now considered the norm.
It is indeed insidious, and can be very damaging for family and personal relationships, with parents too stressed out and tired to 'bother' with their kids, or their partners, as work becomes all-consuming. It's very much a 21st century disease.
As far as I'm concerned, when you leave your work premises, that's you done with your job until the next day (unless you're contracted and paid to work from home), and so when you get home, you 100% completely switch off from work, relax and recharge for the next day, doing what YOU want to do, not your boss.
If that's seen by anyone here as an alien concept, then I'm afraid you've allowed yourself to be 'controlled by the system', and that will only get worse the more YOU allow it to happen! It's also how STRESS starts, and at it's worst, that can be a killer.
Some folks really do need to 'wake up and smell the coffee', and learn to say 'no', before it's all too late......
Marco.
Hi Russell,
I see young people mostly, with their ear buds in as they walk, sit in a fast food restaurant, or even driving. Riding a motorcycle? I know people who have in dash stereos on their motorcycles! I can’t imagine why? While I play the radio in the car, I ride the bike to escape all that, plus my bike is far too loud for a stereo.
Haha, yup! For me, the whole point of having a fast bike or a car is to listen to the sound of the engine (engine note), and enjoy that, as you're riding or driving it. It's certainly the whole reason why I fitted a bespoke quad exhaust system to my car, so I can enjoy the ROAR, as I accelerate! :D
Therefore, most of the time when I'm driving, even the music is off, for that purpose. I'd certainly have no interest whatsoever in interacting with a smartphone, unless someone important was calling me, and then I'd always find a safe place to stop to ring them back - but that would be it.
Back when I was a working stiff I hated cell phones and pagers, a noose around my neck for the boss to jerk on, 24 hours a day.
That's exactly why I wouldn't have them, even if I was still working. As far as bosses are concerned, they've got my full attention for as long as I'm contracted to work, and longer if they pay overtime, but after that MY time is MY OWN (or that of my friends or family)!!
The other day I had a wait in the dirty waiting room of a tire shop, everyone in the waiting room was staring into their phones, as did I. A good chance to catch up on my reading.
Lol, I get that, but you see that's when I'd probably read a magazine, as usually in those places there are some good car magazines lying around, so I'll read those, or perhaps CHAT TO SOMEONE, who wasn't an iZombie!;)
But I see my younger family members are glued to their phones, they stay in constant contact with all of their friends, I saw my niece typing like crazy, I asked, “how many people are you talking to now?”, she casually said, “4”, my nephew holds his in his hand constantly, while we are having a conversation he picks up his phone and checks the screen every 30 seconds or so, he is only half into our conversation and half in his virtual world. I do not see this as healthy. Perhaps they will grow out out of it?
Unfortunately it's not, and it's also bad manners and rather rude.
That's why kids these days [not all, but many] have such low-attention spans, poor manners, and often find it difficult to interact with people in 'real world' situations, simply because they're more comfortable typing to folk, than speaking to them face to face. And it can lead to rather reclusive and insular behaviour.
I can't see them growing out of it any time soon either, as it's not only them doing it, but also their parents, so we've now got generations of people brought up with mobile phones, and latterly smartphones, being an integral part of their life - and it's only going to get worse, in terms of technology controlling *you*, rather than vice versa.
And it is also known that the government spies on everyone through their phone. That may sound paranoid, but just because you think everyone is out to get you, doesn’t mean they aren’t.
Indeed! And that's my biggest problem with things like smartphones: 'Big Brother watching you', and insidiously and surreptitiously drip-feeding you with mind control. You may laugh, but I assure you it's happening - and has been for some time!!
Often those who scoff at such a notion, are those who are worst afflicted. Rarely do we see ourselves as we *really* are, and often we don't like to acknowledge or admit the unpalatable truth....
Marco.
Mike Reed
21-02-2018, 15:07
P.A.Y.G. Nokia 3519i here; only mobile I've ever had. Orange snaffled my credit last year 'cos I hadn't used it within the regulatory 6 month period. Daughter got it reinstated, but supposedly with only a one month window now, which is ridiculous. I'm afraid to turn the bloody thing on when I remember these days !.
It's handy, other people having these smart-phones, as I can email them for instant communication. ! Seems everything's smart nowadays, except possibly the people. Certainly the people who've had smart meters installed. What a pointless waste or our money.
Seems everything's smart nowadays, except possibly the people.
<CHORTLE>... Never a truer word was said!!:lol::D
I disagree with you though, about smart meters. It's all about using them to benefit YOU, not the energy company issuing them - and if you're smart [pun intended], you can do precisely that;)
Marco.
Mike Reed
21-02-2018, 15:51
<CHORTLE>... Never a truer word was said!!:lol::D
I disagree with you though, about smart meters. It's all about using them to benefit YOU, not the energy company issuing them - and if you're smart [pun intended], you can do precisely that;)
Marco.
I've yet to see any (personal) value in them. nor have any of three energy company salespeople on separate occasions managed to convince me of any benefit over what I do now, Marco. Of course you know of the incompatibility problem of those already installed. Why on Earth does the government consider smart meters such an advance that we all have to pay for one regardless (or a fair bit more due to the 'duff' meters) ! Smart? Maybe somebody is, but not me; I feel I'm a bit of a loser in this.
Sure I get that Mike, but I don't really want to further derail this thread into a discussion now about smart meters, so let's save that one for another day :)
Marco.
Sherwood
21-02-2018, 16:06
Sure I get that Mike, but I don't really want to further derail this thread into a discussion now about smart meters, so let's save that one for another day :)
Marco.
I will be relying on my smartphone gps app to give me a sense of where this thread is going!
Geoff
Mike Reed
21-02-2018, 21:35
Sure I get that Mike, but I don't really want to further derail this thread into a discussion now about smart meters, so let's save that one for another day :)
Marco.
Thought I might be stretching the digital thread a bit far.:) I hope we get a reasonable conclusion to the CDP saga at some stage, though.
farflungstar
21-02-2018, 21:59
Don't worry about derailing the thread - I've been enjoying learning about streaming from all the posts. I haven't decided what I'm doing yet. The Opus is en route back to the seller. I have a couple of options CDP wise and am taking my time mulling them over....
Hi Russell,
Haha, yup! For me, the whole point of having a fast bike or a car is to listen to the sound of the engine (engine note), and enjoy that, as you're riding or driving it. It's certainly the whole reason why I fitted a bespoke quad exhaust system to my car, so I can enjoy the ROAR, as I accelerate! :D
Therefore, most of the time when I'm driving, even the music is off, for that purpose. I'd certainly have no interest whatsoever in interacting with a smartphone, unless someone important was calling me, and then I'd always find a safe place to stop to ring them back - but that would be it.
That's exactly why I wouldn't have them, even if I was still working. As far as bosses are concerned, they've got my full attention for as long as I'm contracted to work, and longer if they pay overtime, but after that MY time is MY OWN (or that of my friends or family)!!
Lol, I get that, but you see that's when I'd probably read a magazine, as usually in those places there are some good car magazines lying around, so I'll read those, or perhaps CHAT TO SOMEONE, who wasn't an iZombie!;)
Unfortunately it's not, and it's also bad manners and rather rude.
That's why kids these days [not all, but many] have such low-attention spans, poor manners, and often find it difficult to interact with people in 'real world' situations, simply because they're more comfortable typing to folk, than speaking to them face to face. And it can lead to rather reclusive and insular behaviour.
I can't see them growing out of it any time soon either, as it's not only them doing it, but also their parents, so we've now got generations of people brought up with mobile phones, and latterly smartphones, being an integral part of their life - and it's only going to get worse, in terms of technology controlling *you*, rather than vice versa.
Indeed! And that's my biggest problem with things like smartphones: 'Big Brother watching you', and insidiously and surreptitiously drip-feeding you with mind control. You may laugh, but I assure you it's happening - and has been for some time!!
Often those who scoff at such a notion, are those who are worst afflicted. Rarely do we see ourselves as we *really* are, and often we don't like to acknowledge or admit the unpalatable truth....
Marco.
Marco let me relay a short story that happened just the other day. My smart phone was laying on the table, in standby, on but black screen. I have an iPhone, and I do not use Siri, I don’t want my phone talking to me. So, we were having a discussion, and we wondered what was up with almond milk? How do they make Almond milk? So, I said I’ll Google it! I picked up the phone went to Google’s home page and typed in, “how do they make......”, and the predictive text’s first option was “How do they make Almond Milk”. Is there any doubt that my phone in the off position was ease dropping on our conversation? No doubt in my mind.
(Incidentally, they crush them up into powder and add water.)
Russell
In the last 500 years things have changed a lot.
Edward Bernhays' Public relations being used to effectively make us lose self possession is a major one.
The work of Solomon Asch and Stanley Milgram are also relevant to the understanding of human motivation, and used by powerful people.
The way in which all of our electronic coms and our transactions are logged, virtually provide a detailed map of our lives, and the data is bought and sold by large companies.
It seems inevitable that the Government uses it as well, probably with the excuse of terrorism prevention.
westsounds
23-02-2018, 23:47
It's the big bad seller of the Opus 21 here, Eddie. And it's back in my possession, what an ordeal!
I don't know what sound engineer you used Adey and I would be interested to see the bench report and analysis data recorded as I've just tested and checked it over. Despite it being just left outside in the cold on my doorstep by the courier for over 24 hours, nobody took it in or signed for it as there has been no one here to receive it (can't believe they did that). I've been away busy with work and the wife is visiting relatives. First of all, I took it in to acclimatise for many hours before even trying it, it was freezing cold and covered in damp when I unpacked it! And after all that, I found there to be absolutely 'no faults whatsoever' with this player, and no channel imbalance in the slightest, everything working as it should.
I tried it on two different amplifiers and it worked perfectly. Had others listen to it just to make sure I wasn't going completely mental, but nobody could hear any fault.
To take things further I have a mixing suite at home here being a musician, and I've studied sound engineering at university in the last couple of years for my degree, so I did some additional measured visual computer checks with it and found nothing wrong. I even ran the Opus's stereo outputs directly into the stereo inputs of an Xonar sound card which I have here and did some analysis of the channels via Cubase and Mixcraft, left and right channel outputs are perfectly linear which I have graphically measured and seen now as well as heard.
If there is anyone near the Pembrokeshire area that wants to come and hear an Opus please do we can arrange it, I would very much like you to. Or if you are near and have some decent equipment I'll even bring it to you. It's a fine CDP and thankfully it still is.
The worse thing about this I've just paid £110 for an Opus 21 to go on holiday to Spain and back (well it's not the worst thing actually as its all been stress and shit).
'Nothing' is going abroad in future. Others might be fine with sending to Spain and things 'may' work out for them, but I'll never take that risk again. But, you as sellers can make that choice.
westsounds
24-02-2018, 01:11
I shipped quite lot of fragile electronics and speakers not only to Europe but all over the World ,never experienced what has happened to you , based on this in the future I will think twice before sending anything abroad , thanks for the update and good to hear cd-player is fine .
I've been lucky in the past also with some higher'ish priced items. But those were speakers mainly. A set of ProAc response 1sc's went to China and some Jamo Concert 8's to Russia but a few other random hi-fi items have gone also. Its one of the only times I had wished I listened to the Mrs, she said why are you even bothering sending things out of the UK, you're just asking for trouble!
Hi Eddie,
Welcome to AoS, and glad that you've joined us to recount your side of events, as it now adds proper balance to the discussion :)
This really is a bizarre situation, as I don't doubt for a second anything you've just reported, and equally I don't think Adrian 'imagined' the channel imbalance he experienced either, although what seems likely is some weird incompatibility issue/anomaly occurring between the Opus and an (as yet unknown) aspect of Adrian's system.
For me, that can be the only logical explanation in this unfortunate tale of woe for both of you! :doh:
What needs done now is for the matter to be brought to a conclusion, to your mutual satisfaction, and I look forward to that being completed as soon as possible.
Marco.
westsounds
24-02-2018, 08:28
Hi Eddie,
Welcome to AoS, and glad that you've joined us to recount your side of events, as it now adds proper balance to the discussion :)
This really is a bizarre situation, as I don't doubt for a second anything you've just reported, and equally I don't think Adrian 'imagined' the channel imbalance he experienced either, although what seems likely is some weird incompatibility issue/anomaly occurring between the Opus and an (as yet unknown) aspect of Adrian's system.
For me, that can be the only logical explanation in this unfortunate tale of woe for both of you! :doh:
What needs done now is for the matter to be brought to a conclusion, to your mutual satisfaction, and I look forward to that being completed as soon as possible.
Marco.
Hi Marco,
I am just going to put this sale behind me and learn from it.
This sale was done in anticipation of getting funds toward the eventual purchase of a naim CDP, nDAC and a big power supply to accompany it to accommodate my unhealthy growing obsession for naim boxes :) But the Opus will be staying put now at least for a bit. Any future sales of this sort of equipment will be on a collection only basis and done via local method.
Best regards
Eddie
This really is a bizarre situation, as I don't doubt for a second anything you've just reported, and equally I don't think Adrian 'imagined' the channel imbalance he experienced either, although what seems likely is some weird incompatibility issue occurring between the Opus and an (as yet unknown) aspect of Adrian's system.
co.
He tried it in two different systems, though.
Anyway at least the thing got back in one piece and no-one is down a massive amount of money. It's about the best outcome there could have been I suppose.
westsounds
24-02-2018, 08:54
He tried it in two different systems, though.
Anyway at least the thing got back in one piece and no-one is down a massive amount of money. It's about the best outcome there could have been I suppose.
And sent it to a technician to analyse it. Just saying.
But like I said, I'm done with this sale, finito! And I really do have other things to do.
I wonder if the psu in the Opus is set to a fixed voltage which is fine for the UK range but perhaps slightly outside or near the borderline of the Spanish range?
The Spanish leccy did cross my mind too. But that seems unlikely. Fact is we may never know so as Eddie says, best to draw a line under it. Nobody's lost life or limb after all.
farflungstar
24-02-2018, 09:20
I'd like to welcome Eddie to the forum, and agree that this whole business is best left in the past.
I will say a couple of things, firstly that I'm very disappointed that ups left it out on the doorstep - it shouldn't be delivered without a signature, that never happens here, not with UPS which is why I always use them.
Second, I don't think you're paying the return postage, I paid it and after speaking with PayPal they said nothing about you being charged for it and I didn't ask for it. As yet no refund has been issued so I don't know the situation.
As for the channel imbalance here's what I did. When I took it to try on one of the school systems I heard the same thing and was beginning to doubt my hearing as it was the only variable left before going to a techie etc. So I took 3 students from another classroom, plonked them (a bit non-plussed) in a perfect linear line between the speakers, pressed play (using a class CD which is a mix of speech and music). Then asked for feedback. All of them asked why the majority was coming from one side. They are teens with much younger ears than my own.
I have no explanation, a loose connection, I don't know. However, towards the end of the process with PayPal Eddie was a gentleman about it. I'm sure if he hangs around here he'll be a valuable member.
Adey
westsounds
24-02-2018, 09:34
The priority postage to get it to Spain was included in the refund, and that has come out via PayPal yesterday my side. Case closed.
I do have some relief in all this, that I don't have a screwed up high-end CDP here now to sort out, or possibly skip.
walpurgis
24-02-2018, 09:56
Eddie. Glad to meet you (as it were). It would be good if you stick around. We have a friendly place here and all are welcome :).
Mike Reed
24-02-2018, 10:07
Hi Marco
This sale was done in anticipation of getting funds toward the eventual purchase of a naim CDP, nDAC and a big power supply to accompany it to accommodate my unhealthy growing obsession for naim boxes :)
Eddie
Don't understand that bit, Eddie. Have you been convinced that a Naim CDP (unless the 555) and p/supply is a better fit within your system? Your use of the adjective 'unhealthy' may be truer than you think; financially at least. Subjectively for my part, musically too.
Maybe the air in 'Little England beyond Wales' gives Naim kit the edge. I took my 01, large aerial and amplification etc. to my (then) flat in Saundersfoot many moons ago in great anticipation. Not a dicky bird emanated from my tuner. Back to my trusty ghetto blaster ! It's wild down there; beautiful, but wild !:)
Re. the transaction, it would appear that no explanatory clarification is forthcoming for this most peculiar situation vis a vis the CDP. Lots of scratched heads, I guess, including mine. If we weren't at opposite sides of the country, I'd love to hear the Opus side by side against my (valved) Lector. A friend brought his recently acquired 1990s top end Wadia round, and despite the obvious qualities of the Wadia, the 'dryness' of the presentation was clearly evident. I think your Opus enjoyed a similarly high regard in its day.
westsounds
24-02-2018, 11:13
Don't understand that bit, Eddie. Have you been convinced that a Naim CDP (unless the 555) and p/supply is a better fit within your system? Your use of the adjective 'unhealthy' may be truer than you think; financially at least. Subjectively for my part, musically too.
Maybe the air in 'Little England beyond Wales' gives Naim kit the edge. I took my 01, large aerial and amplification etc. to my (then) flat in Saundersfoot many moons ago in great anticipation. Not a dicky bird emanated from my tuner. Back to my trusty ghetto blaster ! It's wild down there; beautiful, but wild !:)
Re. the transaction, it would appear that no explanatory clarification is forthcoming for this most peculiar situation vis a vis the CDP. Lots of scratched heads, I guess, including mine. If we weren't at opposite sides of the country, I'd love to hear the Opus side by side against my (valved) Lector. A friend brought his recently acquired 1990s top end Wadia round, and despite the obvious qualities of the Wadia, the 'dryness' of the presentation was clearly evident. I think your Opus enjoyed a similarly high regard in its day.
That's interesting reading Mike. And yes 'Little England Beyond Wales' is 100% correct as you put it :) been known as that for as far back as I can remember. Been permanently living in Pembrokeshire for 20 years now, and as much as I like aspects of it (and not so much others) I'm a city boy at heart. Whether I would feel the same way if I moved back to a city now is another thing. But your right Mike, it can be/is a wild land/seascape. Like the land that time forgot, some of it :)
On the naim front, I have heard the better naim digital only for limited auditions. The CD555 would be a bionic stretch for me which will problem never happen, a well used CDS3 would be a greater possibility. I was going to start with a naim DAC though and work from there, power supply etc, suitable transport, naim don't have that many. In an ideal world I would have just sat down and compared it at a dealers with the Opus, it may even be a case of the Opus is better, they all use similar chipsets PCM1704's. I would rather live with one for a bit though, A/B comparisons are not always the best to evaluate. As much as I like the look I don't really want naim boxes for the sake of naim boxes, it makes absolutely no sense financially long term (and it might take me a time to get there), even though I am strangely drawn when I now see them, especially a stack. And, I do really like what they've done with the sound of their newer post olive series. Among other things here I have some naim amplification which I cant see myself ever parting with simply because how it plays music, and as always I want more of it.
And the Wadia you mention also liked to use the 1704 chipset if I'm not wrong.
Mike Reed
24-02-2018, 11:28
For what it's worth Eddie, I had my first Lector (2 box) with my 552/135s/ProAc R4s and it stunned everybody who heard it (in their system on one occasion, too).Replaced the very fine Meridian G08. Even the change of 135s to valved mono's didn't change anything. Now I'm all valve, with the 4 box Lector and big ESLs; still complete synergy, and I couldn't see me reverting to a s/s CDP, however good.
Having said that, a dealer dem. of the CDS2 or 3 (I forget), the Linn CD12 and another CDP in my home in 2000 left nobody in the room in any doubt about the superior machine. By quite a margin for musicality par excellence, it was the CD12. At £12K then, however, it really wasn't on the cards !!! The same Naim CDP didn't acquit itself that well at a subsequent dem. at Grahams in north London, either, In an all Naim system BUT with big B & W speakers (not a good match).
This might seem stupid but was the same cable used each time it was tested when the imbalance was noticed?
Could that even be a reason?
Just thinking out loud.
Ps: and no, I’m not trying to continue the ‘discussion’ just curious to get to the bottom of it.
lower mains in spain maybe... seems most likely as it happened in 2 different systems. just glad its not faulty
westsounds
24-02-2018, 12:59
For what it's worth Eddie, I had my first Lector (2 box) with my 552/135s/ProAc R4s and it stunned everybody who heard it (in their system on one occasion, too).Replaced the very fine Meridian G08. Even the change of 135s to valved mono's didn't change anything. Now I'm all valve, with the 4 box Lector and big ESLs; still complete synergy, and I couldn't see me reverting to a s/s CDP, however good.
Having said that, a dealer dem. of the CDS2 or 3 (I forget), the Linn CD12 and another CDP in my home in 2000 left nobody in the room in any doubt about the superior machine. By quite a margin for musicality par excellence, it was the CD12. At £12K then, however, it really wasn't on the cards !!! The same Naim CDP didn't acquit itself that well at a subsequent dem. at Grahams in north London, either, In an all Naim system BUT with big B & W speakers (not a good match).
The Linn CD12 is a fine machine one of the finest ever made, theres no doubt about that Mike. Never had the privilege myself only heard of the myths, legends and folktales surrounding it.
lower mains in spain maybe... seems most likely as it happened in 2 different systems. just glad its not faulty
Who knows what's happened here Struth? It could possibly be that. It was seriously frying my brain at one point. I did actually ask Adey prior to the sale, are you sure it'll work over there, but he seemed to think there wouldn't be a problem. Plus I then thought I was being ripped off, you never know who the buyers are as you dont ever meet them and you hear about this thing happening. And its the sellers who usually get shafted in these situations, buyers can even use that to their advantage, it is one of the pitfalls of eBay. I only asked about the power as I've had previous experienced of a Luxman amplifier at one of my previous addresses which I had shipped in from Europe. The seller assured me it would be fine and it was fully tested before leaving. After I let it settle in the room for a few hours I plugged it in and it went up in a 'big' plume of smoke first try.
As I said previously, sending abroad (and even importing) is not something I will even contemplate in future. Maybe dealers have contingency plans to get away with it but I would not ever recommend it for any private seller. Even with our new modern global market place.
That's interesting reading Mike. And yes 'Little England Beyond Wales' is 100% correct as you put it :) been known as that for as far back as I can remember. Been permanently living in Pembrokeshire for 20 years now, and as much as I like aspects of it (and not so much others) I'm a city boy at heart. Whether I would feel the same way if I moved back to a city now is another thing. But your right Mike, it can be/is a wild land/seascape. Like the land that time forgot, some of it :)
...and that's exactly why I *love* it out there!
West Wales, for me, is where it's at, simply because it's 'off the beaten track', and not really on the way to any major city. Therefore, the pace of life is relaxed, people are generally not stressed out and running around like headless chickens, and there is none of the overcrowding/busyness one experiences in more centralised areas of the UK.
We may well move there at some point, when both Del and I are retired, or somewhere more rural in North Wales, as I'm the opposite from you, Eddie - definitely a country (or remote seaside location) boy at heart - as far away from 'the great unwashed' as possible! :cool:
Marco.
As I said previously, sending abroad (and even importing) is not something I will even contemplate in future. Maybe dealers have contingency plans to get away with it but I would not ever recommend it for any private seller. Even with our new modern global market place.
I guess, as with anything else in life, it's all down to what's dictated by your personal experience.
In that respect, everything is fine until you have a bad experience... I've had vintage CDPs (e.g. my current Sony X-777ES) arrive from Germany, in perfect condition, and with no issues whatsoever, and the same with valve amps from China.
Even shipping stuff within the UK can sometimes be fraught with problems - so as ever, it's just your Donald Duck! :cool:
Marco.
farflungstar
24-02-2018, 14:18
As I said earlier I don't want this thing to drag on - it's soured things enough for both Eddie and myself to the point that I won't buy something advertised on here that I've wanted for well over a year - but I don't think power was the problem. I have an idea or two but don't see the point of going over everything again.
Surely the independent analysis by the technician sheds some light on the problem...What did he report?
Lawrence001
24-02-2018, 22:38
Nice to see you here Eddie!
I'm intrigued it's difficult not to be. I can't see how a power difference could affect the channel balance unless some component in the output stage was out of spec in one channel in a part of the circuit that would multiply the impact of the voltage being lower (I'm thinking 220v vs 240v is that right?) than that expected just on the rail of that channel, but being in spec on the other channel the voltage drop didn't happen. Anyone know if that's plausible?
Sometimes odd things happen that you can't understand at first but then they make complete sense. There was the time my dac cut out but every time I walked across the room to check it, it came back on again as of it could detect I was near. I won't say what that was but can anyone guess?
I've also been playing with a NAS recently and it kept refusing to connect to the network, after several days of frustration and thinking the network card is bust, turns out the new ethernet cable I got is probably faulty.
There always an explanation, but it's not always what you expect.
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