View Full Version : The Heybrook TT2 info thread.
Since there seems to be a growing amount of interest in the TT2, a suggestion was made (thank you Svend!) to bring as much info as possible into a single place for reference. I’ll trawl through AoS and post links here to all the threads that have run over the last few years, and look for any relevant stuff on the web that may be of interest. Going forward, if anyone wants any info or advice about the TT2, or can contribute any experiences and experiments, everything will be welcome.
Mods, can we make this a sticky?
walpurgis
19-01-2018, 14:40
Now stickyfied! :)
Yes, thanks Geoff!
Shane, let me know if I can help in any way. I'll start posting my own experience with the TT2 shortly as I make more changes and tweaks to it. Anything else I can do to help, let me know...
Svend
Thanks Svend, over the weekend I’m going to post links to all the threads I can find on AoS about the TT2 so they’re easily accessible in one place. I’m not sure what the protocol is here about posting links to other forums, but I can’t see why it would be a problem so I’ll look for anything interesting elsewhere as well. If you can put in some links to sites you’ve found, that would be brilliant.
Sure -- will do. Busy day today, then away for the weekend, but will get to this on Monday. As mentioned, there are a number of owners in Canada who post on the CAM forum. I will search their threads and post links to whatever I feel is worthwhile.
here's a few pics of my old one,i bought it at the same time as owner an lp12 pre cirkus,very little difference between the 2.
https://s26.postimg.org/mhos83vex/IMG_0352_zpspxi63sw6.jpg
next i bought a mission 774 and made an armboard to fit it.
https://s26.postimg.org/i8k25xzvd/IMG_0366_zpsyjdwwilt.jpg
Nice one Jamie! Did you find any benefit from that counterweight on the 774?
+1 Nice deck Jamie. You know, when I first looked at that brass CW in the second pic, I thought it was a shell casing from a very large calibre gun. Looks just like it, even the firing pin dimple. :)
Did you make up the new armboard to the same spec as the original? If not, any difference in sound?
And that external tonearm wire at the pivot -- is that a mod, or factory design? Not familiar with that arm.
Nice one Jamie! Did you find any benefit from that counterweight on the 774?
it came with the arm shane as the original had the counter weight sag,i didnt notice any difference and to be honest it was a pain as the grub screw screwed directly onto the thread of the arm making it jump forward or backward a small amount.
+1 Nice deck Jamie. You know, when I first looked at that brass CW in the second pic, I thought it was a shell casing from a very large calibre gun. Looks just like it, even the firing pin dimple. :)
Did you make up the new armboard to the same spec as the original? If not, any difference in sound?
And that external tonearm wire at the pivot -- is that a mod, or factory design? Not familiar with that arm.
hi Svend,
yes i copied the original one using 2 bolts sandwiched between the ply.apart from the counter weight the arm is as it comes.
actually looking at the old photos again makes me rather miss that old deck,it cost me £180 which was a bargain in my mind,i should have kept it!
one of the things i liked about it was the big cast aluminum sub chassis,done years before linn thought of it for the lp12.
pure sound
20-01-2018, 15:03
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4753/39797311211_8023d785d6_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/23CKC78)
So I just spent a couple of hours searching back for all the threads relating to the TT2. I haven’t included all the “I’ve just bought” or “I’m selling” threads unless they contain useful information or good photos. I didn’t realise exactly how much I’ve waffled on about it over the last ten years either!
Svend’s setup and arm journey:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?54461-Heybrook-TT2-w-RB300-cartridge-recommendations
Armboard issue:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?55128-TT2-Levelling-amp-Arm-Board
AlfaGTV nice pics:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?20639-AlfaGTV-s-den
Svend’s else second thread:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?54597-More-Heybrook-TT2-questions-sweating-the-small-stuff
For sale ad with good photos:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?52931-Heybrook-TT2
Setup query :
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?48781-Heybrook-TT2-sub-platter-issue
PSU query:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?48572-Heybrook-PSU
PSU and suspension setup:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?48119-Heybrook-TT2-upgrades-improvement
Transit screw and arm query:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?46617-heybrook-TT2-transit-screw
Setup and arms:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?45075-Heybrook-TT2-project
Nice plinth Mods:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?45431-Sharing-my-Heybrook-TT2-journey
LP12/TT2 comparison with a bit of history :
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?3032-Heybrook-TT2-vs-Linn-LP12-(A-B-comparison-almost)
Mine arrives!
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?22153-My-baby-s-comin-home
Setup info and a bit about Heybrook pickup arms:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?19730-What-to-do-with-a-TT2
Mystery TT1 thread!
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?3020-Pulley-for-Heybrook-TT1
Resto project and discussion about twin motors. Pics missing, sadly:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?229-Heybrook-TT2
Mainly for Shane's benefit from "the internet remembers but often gets things wrong" department the following page is of interest.
http://www.deadwaxcafe.com/aa/archive.asp
It contains some discussion from the Analogue Addicts mail list contained in 9 zip files. The 3rd zip file in the list contains discussion from 1996 comparing the TT2 with another well known turntable. It contains the rather folksy paragraph that triggered the Heybrook was a Scottish company factoid that I know left Shane perplexed when he first saw it. Clearly a part of his life of which he has no recollection.
Indeed! This quote always amused me, and I never did find out who it was that was supposed to be saying it. Not only did it imply that Heybrook were in Scotland rather than Devon, it also gave the impression that the place was teeming with earnest young graduate engineers sweating over drawing boards and slide rules. It’s true that we did have a drawing board in the office and we did actually use it once or twice, but in all the time I was there I don’t think I met a graduate of any sort unless Stuart had a degree! There were never more than ten employees anyway.
how about some info shane on your design thoughts such as how you set about designing it,what were you core 'must haves' etc, were there prototypes and if so what did design changes did you make from them to the finished tt?
I started s reply to this but it seems to be rivalling war and peace for length at the moment. Probably tomorrow night....
I think I’ve covered a lot of this before so forgive me if it’s a bit familiar, but it seems like a good idea to revisit it for this thread.
It wasn’t as if I sat down one day and thought “I’m going to design a suspended subchassis turntable with an emphasis on rigidity and ease of setup”!
It started when I was working in a hifi shop. In the early seventies having just left school, this was a frustrating occupation. There you are surrounded by all this wonderful equipment costing hundreds of pounds, but on twelve quid a week you don’t get much chance to take any of it home. I did manage to get hold of a nice little amp (an EMI Stereoscope 555) that was taken in part exchange, and I got hold of some half decent speakers from somewhere but I figured the only way to get a decent turntable was to put it together myself. At this point there was no suggestion that it would ever become a manufactured product. Heybrook didn’t appear on the scene for a good five years afterwards.
it’s all a bit hazy now, but I remember I got hold of an ERA 3033 which had met with some sort of accident. This was a rather strange French belt drive that had all the basic ingredients, ie alloy platter and sub-platter, a rather spindly bearing and a 24 pole synchronous motor.
Spending my days selling Duals, Lencos and later on Linns and Regas, I had a sort of an idea of what way I wanted to go. I thought that having plenty of mass to absorb vibration would be a good idea, but I also liked the idea of spring suspension to block external vibration. I went up a couple of blind alleys including trying to cast a complete concrete plinth
(hopelessly impractical) and hanging a suspended chassis made of dexion speed frame off three Morris 1100 throttle return springs inside a Victorian commode. That sort of worked but was a bit floppy. It was fitted with a Transcriptors Fluid arm that came my way, and worked ok as long as nobody in the room moved whilst it was playing. I ended up making a simple Rega copy with a couple of sheets of chipboard glued together with the ERA bits and the Fluid arm, but I now had a better idea of what I’d do if I got the chance to develop it.
After the hifi shop went bust, I briefly had a job with a local car repair shop. Going off topic a bit here, it was run by a genius mechanic by the name of Ed Jago, and what he didn’t know about tuning Minis wasn’t worth knowing. He had served his apprenticeship under Daniel Richmond at Downton Engineering in Salisbury who did all the development of the Mini Cooper and Cooper S for BMC. In his group of apprentices were Patrick Longman and Jan Odor who both became major figures in the British motor tuning industry. Another of the group was one Julian Vereker who went on to quite a different future. Small world...
One of Ed’s many talents was welding, and he opened my eyes to the possibilities of steel fabrication. I can’t remember what it was that I watched him putting together, but it was made from 2” x 1” rectangular steel tube with 1/8” wall thickness. That looked like useful stuff.
Back at the hifi shop, one of my colleagues was an old school friend, Peter Comeau. Being a bit more savvy than me he’d seen the writing on the wall and left about a year before the shop went bust, going off to make a name for himself as a hifi journalist. Like myself, he enjoyed tinkering and exploring possibilities, but his main area of interest was loudspeakers. He’d already helped the shop owner to put together some prototype speakers with an eye to expanding a spinoff business from the shop that ran a record cleaning machine, and I think he learned a lot about driver selection and basic crossover design in the process. The spinoff business was called JPW, but when that became a fully fledged manufacturer years later, Peter had nothing to do with it.
Instead, he got together with one of our customers who had become a good friend, and between then they created a nice little two way speaker with a friction loaded reflex port and some unusual crossover ideas that gave it particularly good imaging and phase coherence abilities, both of which were pretty unusual characteristics in the late 70s. Once they were confident that they had a viable product, they started up a company to manufacture it, and thus the Heybrook HB2 was born. A month or so on I joined them, assembling crossover boards and building speakers. Over the next two years the HB3 and HB1 were developed and the company became pretty successful. Peter and Stuart had been aware of what I’d been doing with turntables and suggested that I might like to put some of my ideas together, so I guess at that point I did start to sit down and think about a complete concept. I started off with the idea of a massive fabricated steel chassis. It was never going to be anything other than belt drive, since direct drive was pretty much derided at the time in the UK, and idlers had largely fallen out of favour because they were reputed to rumble. And anyway, developing either of those would have been way beyond our reach. That immediately meant that the platter would be in two parts, following the pattern of Linn, Thorens and originally AR. It was just the obvious way to do things. The other thing that I thought was a good thing to do was to give the whole thing a really solid foundation, and at the same time to eliminate voids in the plinth that could act as resonant cavities. I wasn’t certain that this was a significant problem, but a number of people had raised it as a possible issue, and it made a lot of sense to me, so I put together a block made from four layers of chipboard, with the bottom three layers cut out to house the chassis and a solid top layer for the bearing to poke through and to hang the suspension off. I spent a while trying to work out how best to hang the chassis off the top plate and realised that if you take a 6mm bolt and force it through a 5.5 mm hole in a piece of 18mm chipboard you get a pretty solid anchor. The additional benefit of being able to adjust the suspension from above wasn’t the primary objective, but a useful benefit that became one of the defining features of the TT2.
At this point, frustratingly,!can’t remember what platter and bearing I used. It can’t have been the ERA components because that subplatter was about 50mm thick and would have needed a hole in the top plate about 100mm diameter. I can only assume that I must have borrowed something suitable. Equally, I don’t know what motor i used but I do remember the belt was pinched from a Philips cassette deck! Suffice it to say that the cobbled up prototype that resulted was sufficiently good for Peter and Stuart to allow me to sit down to plan and draw the whole thing properly. We never built any more prototypes. We just went on what looked and felt right.
At this point we started to talk to a couple of blokes who ran a little precision engineering business from a barn across the road from Peter’s house. I think it’s fair to say that without them we never would have been able to produce a viable product. Take for example the main bearing and spindle. I knew what I wanted to achieve here, and I drew up a simple design which featured a 10mm steel shaft in a bearing sleeve made from 20mm hex brass bar stock with a 10mm hole bored through. This would then have a brass plug pressed into one end and a 10mm ball dropped in to provide the point bearing. Johnny and Dave looked at this and pointed out that if I wanted a precision ground 10mm shaft, they’d need to start with 12mm bar stock and grind off 2mm, which would be a long and wasteful process. If however I specified the shaft at 9.95mm, they could use 10mm stock and just grind of .05mm to achieve the surface needed. Obvious really, but if you don’t know, you don’t know. They also came with a process for manufacturing the bearing sleeve which I think is responsible for the whole quality of the TT2 performance. Instead of simply boring the brass bar stock out to 10mm, they bored it slightly undersize and then pressed a highly polished carbide ball of exactly the correct size to achieve the clearance needed down the bore. That gave a mirror finish to the bore whose accuracy was simply dependent on the accuracy of the ball. Since only one carbide ball was required, that could be very highly specified. Suffice it to say, the first sample they came up with was everything we could have wanted.
They also undertook to fabricate and powder coat the chassis, machine sub platters from 120mm ally bar stock, make up and powder coat the motor mounting plates, machine the motor pulleys and machine the raw platter castings which Peter procured from a foundry in North Devon to my drawings. Altogether very satisfactory.
The plinth and armboard drawings went out to Greaves of Sheffield who made the HB3 cabs for us. Again, they came back with exactly what we wanted, and all that was left was to procure the minor components such as springs and spring mountings, and the motor. That again was a simple choice. The Philips/Airpax/Premotec motor was pretty much the default choice at the time. Why reinvent the wheel?
After the first rough prototype was made and the design was drawn up in detail, there were no major changes made until the change to the cast alloy chassis about two years later. There were a couple of hiccups with the casting quality of the first batches of platters but other than that it worked pretty much out of the box.
a great read,cheers for taking the time to write it.
would i be right in saying that the hiccups in the platters resulting in them being sprayed black?
Here are some images of a completely and beautifully rebuilt TT2 for sale a few years ago on CAM:
http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1280237-custom-heybrook-tt2-turntable.jpg
http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1280239-custom-heybrook-tt2-turntable.jpg
http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1280240-custom-heybrook-tt2-turntable.jpg
http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1280241-custom-heybrook-tt2-turntable.jpg
http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1280231-custom-heybrook-tt2-turntable.jpg
A description of the rebuild is there if you click "Return to Ad".
He did a wonderful job. It looks stunning, and I'll bet it sounds outstanding.
Edit: here is a full description, with pictures, of his rebuild process: https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42895
Shane, close your eyes when he gets to the part about taking the saw to the original plinth :eek:
That one features in one of the AoS threads I linked to above, but his link to Canuck Audiomart doesn’t work so I’m really glad you posted that. Don’t have to close my eyes. The important part of the plinth is the block in the middle. The bit round the outside’s only there to keep the dust out and hold the lid on! Beautiful job, but it does make it look bulky! Perhaps I should say imposing.
Ah - sorry Shane, I missed your post on that. And yes, the rebuild does add a lot of bulk. Pretty much the only parts left of the original Heybrook are the subchassis, subframe, motor, platter and bearing. I wonder if it sounds any better than the original? Still, the walnut does look very classy. If I ever make up an armboard for mine, I might consider a veneer of walnut....or pear...or olive....or birdseye maple... :) All would look sharp against the black plinth.
This just popped up on my eBay feed. Fabricated lids for the TT2 (or any other turntable) at less than half the price Linn charge these days. The photos look good but I have no direct experience with the seller so the normal eBay caveats apply!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-HEYBROOK-TT2-REPLACEMENT-TURNTABLE-LID-DUST-COVER-/173116723936
Thanks Shane. Good to know. I don't have a dust cover for mine, but the ADC arm that's on there now is too long anyway, so a cover wouldn't fit. If I ever take that arm off (unlikely), I will look at one of these. In the meantime a silk hanky is working fine to keep the dust off.
Weather was not conducive to outdoor fun yesterday, so I was house-bound again and did some playing around with platter mats last night, playing the same song with three different mats. I did this with three songs.
Some initial comments:
Thin felt -- this is is one that came with the TT2; not sure if it's original Heybrook or not. This one had the best balance of air and precision. Imaging was good, but not pinpoint. Nice speed and realism on quick transients like plucked strings. Very natural and open sounding. However, there might be some platter resonance coming through with this one -- there was an audibly apparent background of the same pitch happening with all three songs, which wasn't there with the other two mats. I'm not experienced enough with this to know what to listen for. Perhaps someone who knows this phenomena can comment? Could also be a VTA thing(?), as I did not bother to adjust this for the different mats.
Thick felt -- this one came off an old Rega Planar 3; it's more than twice as thick as the above. This was my least favourite. Imaging was all hazy and imprecise, noticeably so. Everything sounded a bit indistinct and disjointed. OTOH, it had a nice big soundstage and wonderful sense of air and room-filling sound.
Thick cork -- this was a cheap buy off Amazon; it's probably about 5/16" thick. This had by far the best imaging - pinpoint accurate. Just great control of the notes, excellent speed and attack. Very precise sounding. However, the soundstage seemed smaller, and there was a much less open and airy sound, a bit closed in. It also gave the sound a slightly nasal tone, which seems odd to say but that was my impression. I'm not sure that this was the most musical of the three, but for imaging freaks this would be the ticket.
I can't really say at this point which was my favourite -- either the cork or thin felt. I need to leave one on for a good long spell and live with it, then switch and repeat. Overall the differences were subtle, but readily noticeable, in particular switching to the cork from either felt one - that was not so subtle. I may try a leather mat at some point, as I hear good things about those. I'll be more careful to adjust VTA for longer term listening, as the ZLM cart seems very sensitive to that.
Hope this is helpful. Will update again as I do more playing around with this.
Best,
Svend
Good stuff, Svend. The thin mat is almost certainly the original which was sourced from Linn. Sauce for the goose...
I’ll be interested to hear your findings with leather.
Will do Shane. Might get to that this weekend if I have time.
Any comments on the background note that I heard with the thin felt? Could that actually have been platter resonance? Or was I imagining things?
I think platter resonance is unlikely because the Q would be pretty high, so it would be easily damped out by any of the mats with the mass of an LP on top. By coincidence last night I noticed on mine that if I very light tap any part of the chassis assembly with the stylus in the runout groove, an audible thunk is generated, at around 2-300 Hz. Too low to be the platter, so I wonder if it might be the armboard pretending to be part of a marimba.
Hmmm...interesting that you don't suspect platter resonance. Could be VTA then(?), as I did not adjust between mats, and there's about 1/8" difference between the thin felt and the cork mat. I need to listen more closely to get a better sense of what's happening.
To be honest, the deck is really not that well isolated. This is one of my next projects, is to find an isolation combo that works. At the moment it's sitting on three small Michell Tenderfeet, on a particleboard shelf, inside the armoire....that's it. I really need to improve on that, starting with the deck and working my way out from there. More updates here once I start playing around with that. One thing at a time...
RothwellAudio
26-01-2018, 15:39
To be honest, the deck is really not that well isolated.
Isn't the sub-chassis isolated from the outer chassis by design?
Isn't the sub-chassis isolated from the outer chassis by design?
Hi Andrew, just to clarify, I meant it was not well isolated from the shelf and cabinet. I wasn't referring to any shortcoming in the design of the turntable itself.
RothwellAudio
26-01-2018, 16:01
I would have thought that the whole point of a suspended sub-chassis is that there's no need to isolate the main chassis from its surroundings.
Yes, that's true. But even popping the Tenderfeet under the TT2 helped noticeably, compared to the stock little rubber pads. Not a massive improvement, but I could clearly hear it. So there must be something going on there. At this point I'm not sure what I will try next, but thinking a marble or granite plate on sorbothane footers might work. It's an inexpensive experiment, and my system is sufficiently sensitive to these little tweaks that every little thing may help. To be clear, I'm not intending to go overboard on this. Just a simple tweak oughta do the trick.
I would have thought that the whole point of a suspended sub-chassis is that there's no need to isolate the main chassis from its surroundings.
It is, and if the world was a perfect place you’d be right. In the real world I’ve yet to meet a turntable of any type that wasn’t influenced by its surroundings. Yes, the suspension attenuates the passage of external vibration, but it doesn’t eliminate it completely.
What the suspension has no effect on is the vibration induced in the chassis, platter and armboard by the stylus tracking the groove modulation. Any resonances in that assembly will cause peaks in the overall response.
RothwellAudio
28-01-2018, 16:41
But even popping the Tenderfeet under the TT2 helped noticeably, compared to the stock little rubber pads.
Yes, the suspension attenuates the passage of external vibration, but it doesn’t eliminate it completely.
Yes, I was playing devil's advocate to some extent. The springs between the sub-chassis and main chassis will be more effective at some frequencies than others. I'm not sure exactly how the springs in the TT2 are attached but it might be worthwhile experimenting with them. For example, if they're attached directly to the sub-chassis it might be worth decoupling them from the sub-chassis with little rubber "things" - whatever your ingenuity can come up with. Of course, there are practical problems to solve such as changing the height at which the sub-chassis will sit if extra rubber bits are included but I think it's a worthwhile avenue for exploration for the serious tweeker.
TT2 springs have moulded butyl rubber mounts top and bottom. Not easy to modify without completely redesigning the suspension.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-HEYBROOK-TT2-BELT-DRIVE-TURNTABLE-WITH-LINN-BASIK-TONEARM-/222874963753
Here's something I hope will help anyone experiencing humming or buzzing in a TT2 with external power supply...
I'd like to share how I recently fixed a hum problem on my own TT2. Last week I listened to the deck with headphones for the first time, and I noticed a hum which I hadn't heard before through the speakers (headphones were more revealing I suppose). It got louder as the tonearm approached the motor, louder again if I touched the headshell, and louder still if I touched the pivot assembly. "Odd..." I thought. But before driving myself nuts looking for ground wire problems in the tonearm, headshell, motor, etc., I watched this video, which was extremely helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GUqpgMxwj4
It's by Paul McGowan, president of PS Audio, and is one of his Ask Paul series (a wonderful resource; see their website for a long list of these videos). At 4:40 he talks of the pitch of the hum being helpful to diagnose it's source -- a low-pitched 60hz hum is likely noise being picked up from a transformer, whereas a higher-pitched 120hz buzz is likely a ground loop.
In my case it was the latter - a higher pitched buzz. "OK, so now what?", I asked. Well at 6:00 he talks about "ground potential" differences between turntable power supply and preamp, and the importance of those being balanced. Ah-ha! I had my TT2's external psu plugged into a simple power bar inside the cabinet (done so because it is switchable to be able to kill power to the psu when not in use).... Well, I unplugged the PSU from there and stuck it into a hefty power block into which the preamp was also plugged. Presto! no more hum. Quiet as a mouse. Man, that was an easy fix. Saved me hours of rummaging around with tonearm wires, motor ground cables, and that whole nightmare...
If you happen to have the same scenario, even in a non-PSU Heybrook or any other turntable for that matter, it might we worth a few simple power cable swaps to see if you can clean that up. At least listening to the tone of the hum will help zero-in on a possible source.
Cheers,
Svend
Well I finally got around to making up a leather platter mat and testing it tonight. Interesting outcome.... I had high hopes that it would be The Schizzle, as they say. Umm...not so much, as it turned out. It sounded really good, and was better to my ears than the felt ones, but not nearly as good as the cork one.
In summary, the leather sounded very fluid and smooth, and was quite a bit better than felt in this way. Less distortion, it seemed. Kind of a sweet sound overall. But imaging and sound stage were only so-so. Voices and instruments lacked "presence" in the room. Bass was thin and flabby. Sharp transients notes not very precise. Again, better than either the thick or thin felt versions that I have.
But swapping the cork back on made a very noticeable improvement in all of these aspects. Bass was tighter and deeper; voices and instruments much more palpable and "there" (pretty amazing, actually...a few "Wow!" moments during listening); imaging and sound stage more precise and broader/deeper.
The leather mat I made up was out of a piece of soft, flexible cowhide that I had lying around - matte natural surface, no sheen or gloss, uncoloured or dyed, about 1.5mm thick. Perhaps it would sound better if it were thicker leather? Who knows? But I don't think I will bother to try this -- there are commercial versions available that are claimed to be thicker, but at a price. TBH, the El Cheapo cork one that I have (I think I paid less than C$20 on Amazon) sounds so good I'd rather upgrade that get a better quality cork model. I think Pro-Ject makes one... I'll post back if I try it...
Hope this helps all you TT2 owners out there.
Best,
Svend
I'm currently on my second TT2 (and last, I won't make the mistake of parting with it this time!). In the process a friend has also managed to find one and we're restoring them together. We are looking at armboard options - I know the original is a birch ply sandwich and Guy has kindly provided me with dimensions. Any thoughts on whether an aluminium armboard might be a good or bad idea?
Hi Surayne,
Sorry that you're not getting any answers to your question here. I'm not sure anyone has ever tried putting an aluminium armboard on a Heybrook, but I could be wrong. Personally I would be concerned that it might resonate, unless you damped it with something like sticky sorbothane. I recall Shane, the designer of this wonderful deck, mentioning that they tested many different materials (presumably all woods of different types) and decided that the birch ply sandwich had the best sound quality. It might be wise to follow that same path here. If you're thinking of the aluminium just for aesthetics, then you might be able to glue a very thin sheet of it on top of the birch ply. That could look quite sharp. If you stained the edges of the wood underlay (birch ply) in black, you would have a very clean design.
Not sure if this is helpful or not. Let us know how you make out with this project.
Best,
Svend
Thank you Svend. The idea was part aesthetic but also I wondered if a more rigid armboard would change the sound for the better - newer LP12s have a single-piece cast subchassis and armboard which is where the idea came from. If we give it a try I'll report back.
First time I’ve revisited this thread for a while so I missed this, and I guess by now you’ve either tried it out or gone for a different solution. If so, how did it go?
Certainly it’s an interesting idea. The first thought that springs to mind is how you would implement an alloy board. If from sheet, then some sort of spacer will be needed to make up for the difference in thickness. The size of this and it’s contact area with the board and the chassis will both have an effect, as would the thickness of the sheet itself. It would also probably be necessary to apply some sort of damping, so already you’ve got a whole load of variables to play with.
Do you remember the old Celestion SL600? An interesting device with a cabinet made from Aerolam. They also did a normal version, the SL6, with a conventional cab made from either MDF or chipboard, not sure which. Comparisons between the two were startling. Knocking the standard cab with s knuckle gave exactly the noise you’d expect, but knocking the 600 cab was like knocking a block of solid metal. No noise, just sore knuckles.
Aerloam is a product used for making cabin floors in aircraft. It consists of a honeycomb of alloy foil with a thin layer of alloy sheet bonded to each side, giving a very light rigid structure, as here:
http://www.cxdinternational.com/popup.aspx?SupplyImages/large/BDHEXA1224.jpg
Not that easy to get hold of, and a bitch to work with but it would be a really interesting way to make an arm board!
A similar effect could be obtained by glueing sheets of aluminium either side of a balsa wood core. Much easier to work with, and probably just as light and rigid.
I suppose if you were really adventurous, you could use something like that to build a complete unit to replace the arm board and chassis in one go. If I was ever to be in a position to design another turntable I’d be looking at that sort of thing....
Apologies for the long silence but life gets in the way of hifi sometimes, unfortunately! The aluminium armboard is complete and now mounted to his deck, along with an SME 3009 and a Denon DL160. Unfortunately we ran into a problem when we got the deck running - the belt pulley seems to be very loose on the motor spindle, and this means that the speed of the deck is all over the place as the pulley slips. There seems to have been a metal piece holding the two together which looks worn out.
Any ideas on how to secure the pulley to the motor spindle?
walpurgis
11-10-2019, 21:36
Use a lathe to overbore the pulley hole. Insert and bond an undersized bush, then drill and ream the bush to be a tight fit to the motor shaft and superglue it on.
Strange. From what I remember, the pulley was just a push fit onto the motor shaft. I don’t recall there being any other part holding them together. Any chance of a photo?
Does this one have a TPS? If not, I may have a spare 50Hz pulley in the shed. If there is any wear, it’s going to be the alloy pulley rather than the steel motor shaft that’s worn.
Use a lathe to overbore the pulley hole. Insert and bond an undersized bush, then drill and ream the bush to be a tight fit to the motor shaft and superglue it on.
Sounds out of the realms of home DIY! Shane, that's very kind of you. I'll post some pics when I get them from him and hopefully the issue will be clearer. The deck is a pre-TPS version.
Pictures of the motor spindle and the bit that came out of the pulley. The pulley itself looks pretty unremarkable.
https://i.imgur.com/G4IZ0TW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6WySueu.jpg
No idea what that white stuff is. Looks like chewing gum?
It looks like this has been happening for a while because of the score marks on the motor shaft, so one has to wonder how worn the pulley bore is.
I’d suggest getting both scrupulously clean first, then seeing exactly how loose the pulley is on the shaft. If it’s a sliding fit but not sloppy and wobbly, then put a couple of drops of Loktite 648 in the pulley bore, fit it and leave for 24 hours. Make sure it stays out of the motor bearings! (You could use superglue but you run the risk of it setting before you’ve got the pulley in the correct position.)
If the pulley is so worn that it wobbles let me know and I’ll dig out my spare one.
Thanks Shane. The odd bit is actually metal - the photo has a lot of glare from flash I think. It may be that someone attempted a repair previously.
As the motor shaft is worn is it worth considering replacing the motor altogether?
It’s really quite hard to imagine what’s happened here. If the white stuff is metal and there was room for it between the pulley and the shaft, then presumably the pulley is unusable.
i just checked in my box of bits in the shed, and the spare pulley I remembered being there (haven’t looked in there for years) is firmly attached to an unused motor.
If by chance your pulley is still a decent sliding fit on the motor shaft try the superglue trick, you’ve nothing to lose. If that doesn’t work, then we can come to an arrangement with my spare motor and pulley.
thegratefuldad
24-03-2022, 15:03
Hello,
I've been trying to get in touch with Shane and will give it a try here.
If Shane does read this:
My name is Neil Thegratefuldad
I have acquired a Heybrook TT2 and have a question that you may be the only person that can answer.
I've attempted asking some HIFI stores but they don't know.
I'm looking for compatible suspension springs for my Heybrook TT2.
I do see spring upgrades for Thorens and AR suspension tables at a site called vinylnirvana.
MIght you be able to recommend a spring set that can be used to replace the ones in my current TT2?
That's it,
btw my e-mails thegratefuldad1@verizon.net or neilthegratefuldad@gmail.com
sorry but I've been looking for a thread that might work to contact you.
thanks in advance
Hi Neil, you found me!
Finding replacement springs for a TT2 isn’t going to be easy as they were made specifically for that turntable and the last one was built the best part of 30 years ago. The only possible source of supply would be Guy at Puresound, who is a AoS member. He bought up all the TT2 spares when Heybrook went bust.
My question for you is, why do you want to replace them? Are they missing or damaged?
thegratefuldad
24-03-2022, 16:37
Hi Shane,
I feel like a bum hunting you down.
The power of the web is wild.
I guess we can thank Al Gore for that (I made myself laugh).
The reason is, I don't think the 'bounce' I'm getting is anything near what I see in some of the
videos on the web. When I tap the platter (label area to the right of the spindle), not much 'bounce'.
it does but slight. If I give it some pressure it does a little more. I was just thinking that the springs might
be 'weak' over all this time. I'm thinking that new springs might improve it. Then again, I might be making more of this than it is. I'm not hearing skips or any detrimental (not even sure what it would be) effects. The 3 or 4 sets of springs I see on that site are not that expensive so thought it might be worth a try. But which set? Your thoughts/recommendations would be appreciated. Waste of time? Don't worry about it? I'll be honest with you, I did get a nice reply back from the website and they offered (if I mail them one of my springs), they could suggest which set might work if at all. I know this is a way old TT but probably my last. Should I forget this 'bounce' thing and just enjoy the music ....which btw ....for a TT of this age is quite good! Just shows that good engineering works. It was a blast to hear/read from you that you actually worked and created these things! Might I ask, how long ago? What else have you done in the audio world? I'm 69 been into the audio stuff (on and off) since around 1968. Not sure which is a worse addiction, audio or drinking/drugging (joshing here....kind of). That's it. Are you still in the business?
Really happy to help, Neil. Even after forty years I still get a kick out of the fact that there are people out there still enjoying something I created so long ago.
The turntable should have a good even free-moving bounce, and won’t be performing at its best if it doesn’t, but if there’s a problem it’s unlikely to be the springs. They’re very lightly loaded and I’ve not come across any others that have sagged or deteriorated in any way. It’s far more likely that the arm lead needs setting up correctly. I don’t know which arm you have but many of the arms supplied with the TT2 had stiff cables which were quite hard to dress correctly. Also, the suspension may be out of adjustment and the springs out of alignment, both of which are easy to resolve.
I have heard of people fitting Linn springs to a TT2, but I can’t see how they would improve things since they won’t fit on the spring seats and they’re rated for a much heavier platter assembly, so would push the suspension resonance up into the lower end of the audio band. If you put Ferrari springs in a Chevy, it won’t handle like a Ferrari, and it won’t handle much like a Chevy either!
If you haven’t got one already, download the instruction manual here. It tells you how to set everything up correctly. https://www.vinylengine.com/library/heybrook/tt2.shtml . You’ll need to join Vinyl Engine, but it’s free and a very useful resource. Also, have a look at some of the links earlier in this thread where others have had similar issues.
Don’t hesitate to get in touch if you need any more help. Every TT2 should be a source of delight!
You and I are near enough contemporary, I was 70 in January, so I guess we’ll have grown up with similar influences in music and hi-fi. I haven’t been involved in the HiFi industry since the mid 80’s, so I’m pretty out of touch with newer stuff, but I still love the music and fooling around with DIY.
thegratefuldad
24-03-2022, 21:03
Hi Shane,
Well, not sure where to start this next msg.
btw- I had downloaded the Heybrook TT2 instruction manual a few weeks ago. In fact, during those searches is when I first read your posts and there began this journey.
I was amazed at how much information is out there if you search long enough.
OK, I do have the red marks on springs aligned so I think I'm OK there.
BUT as per this guy SHANE explained to me:
"It’s far more likely that the arm lead needs setting up correctly. I don’t know which arm you have but many of the arms supplied with the TT2 had stiff cables which were quite hard to dress correctly."
I also noticed that the springs were in my mind a bit too compressed.
So, I've disconnected the retaining clip for the arm leads (Rega RB300 I had Incognito Rewired), stiff cables yes! AND relieved some of the compression on springs by turning the tuning bolts.
Well, the 'bounce' is back, so, I'll look to dial in the retaining clip for stiff cables
(any issues with not using the retaining clip, I don't see any hang up while not using it)?
My only concern is now that I've relieved the pressure on springs, the armboard is now not level with plinth (it's lower than plinth). If I tweak the springs to make the armboard level, the 'bounce' diminishes.
Might a course of action be to get the 'bounce' back and adjust the VTA with another shim to get the VTA correct?
I hope you can follow what I tried to explain?
thanks in advance
Neil
Lawrence001
25-03-2022, 03:19
Hi Shane,
BUT as per this guy SHANE explained to me:
"It’s far more likely that the arm lead needs setting up correctly. I don’t know which arm you have but many of the arms supplied with the TT2 had stiff cables which were quite hard to dress correctly."
Isn't that the same Shane it's exactly what he said above?
Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk
Isn't that the same Shane it's exactly what he said above?
Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk
Yup. As far as I’m aware, I’m still me.
I also noticed that the springs were in my mind a bit too compressed.
Assuming that the chassis isn't hard up against the top of the plinth, the compression of the springs depends solely on the weight they are carrying, which won't have changed. How compressed do you think they should be?
So, I've disconnected the retaining clip for the arm leads (Rega RB300 I had Incognito Rewired), stiff cables yes! AND relieved some of the compression on springs by turning the tuning bolts.
Well, the 'bounce' is back, so, I'll look to dial in the retaining clip for stiff cables
(any issues with not using the retaining clip, I don't see any hang up while not using it)?
A quick photo would be really useful here to get an accurate idea of how you have the lead set up at the moment. Normally with a stiff arm lead, the best way is to take it forward to a clip secured under the arm-board securing nut, then back in a straight run to another clip where the lead exits the plinth. Both clips should hold the lead as tightly as possible. The cable between the two clips should not be under any tension, but neither should it be too slack, otherwise it will try to push the chassis forwards.
My only concern is now that I've relieved the pressure on springs, the armboard is now not level with plinth (it's lower than plinth). If I tweak the springs to make the armboard level, the 'bounce' diminishes.
Might a course of action be to get the 'bounce' back and adjust the VTA with another shim to get the VTA correct?
I hope you can follow what I tried to explain?
No, the VTA doesn't come into this atall. Don't forget that the arm, armboard, chassis and platter are fixed in a rigid assembly, and what you're trying to do is to set up the suspension so that the whole assembly sits correctly in the plinth. The relationship between the arm and the platter (and hence the VTA) is fixed, regardless of how the whole assembly sits on the suspension. If the armboard is sitting low in the plinth then the platter will be as well. Changing the VTA by putting spacers under the arm only changes the height of the arm relative to the platter. It will have no effect on the suspension.
Hope this helps! It can be a bit mind-boggling trying to work out the various relationships at work here. the good thing about the TT2 though is that once you've got it sorted it will stay that way!
Incidentally, is your chassis steel or alloy?
thegratefuldad
25-03-2022, 19:53
Isn't that the same Shane it's exactly what he said above?
Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk
sorry, my attempt at humor failed!
thegratefuldad
25-03-2022, 20:08
Hi Shane,
I would have loved to sit down and have a few pints (1,2,3,etc) but being in USA New York and working the 12 steps in AA, is not the best idea. Your assistance has been wonderful. I'm really a bit overwhelmed by your kindness in helping out.
It seemed I hit the ENTER key too soon.
After relieving stress on the STIFF rca cables (Rega RB300 Incognito rewired) the BOUNCE came back to what I would consider acceptable levels. The springs are now not as compressed as I had them, in fact I started all over with left side adjustment of platter about 5mm from plinth as per the Heybrook TT2 instructions, I then worked on the 2 right side adjustments, attempting to get armboard (3/4 inch BIRCH) level with plinth and level bounce. Seems good to me! (I meant to send this current info but hit ENTER key with all that other stuff and got interrupted and forgot to update).
So, for a rather old TT with original parts, this Heybrook TT2 is pretty darn good all around.
I'm not sure if the chassis is steel or alloy. It's dark in color, not silver which I think would be steel, so I'll guess alloy.
Once again thanks! I guess I'll keep my 'tongue in cheek' comments to myself as reading them might not be taken properly. Yes, I knew it was the same Shane.
cheers
Neil
That’s great! Sounds like you’ve got it about right. Now time to sit back and enjoy the music. What’s going on the platter next?
thegratefuldad
25-03-2022, 22:44
Hi Shane,
I'm going to dig deep and ask one last question on the TT2.
I notice the speed is slightly fast, (using the stroboscope disk and RPM apps).
Instead of 33.3 I'm getting 33.8 to 34.1 the highest.
Are there any 'adjustments' or tips that might work to slow it down slightly.
Being pretty newbie on this, not sure if I'm being nit-picky, but thought I'd ask anyway.
It's not like my 69 year old ears really care, but kind of a techie question.
thanks in advance either way.
I really have not went overboard on cartridge for the TT2, I'm awaiting a Goldring 1006 to be delivered.
I'm hoping to not go down the rabbit hole$$.
As far as vinyl, I have 100's (somewhere around 1000) old vinyl of various genres. However, about 20
years ago, I had a flood that destroyed most of the album covers, so they are in generic white album covers. Some LPs got warped but I did get out of it without too much destruction.
I really haven't even been spinning vinyl for 20 years or so while working in the computer field. I traveled a lot. I'm not particular about the kinds of music I listen to. I'm looking into sonically exciting vinyl LPs but the price of vinyl is outrageous these days. So hunting around for some LPs that are 'reasonable'.
Not looking to become a collector. Like I said once, my taste in music is kind of like food, I'll eat anything as long as it tastes good!
cheers once again
Like any turntable with a synchronous motor, the speed of the motor is locked to the frequency of the mains supply and can’t be varied. The speed of the platter is then determined by the relative sizes of the motor pulley and the sun-platter which again can’t be varied, so there aren’t any adjustments that can vary the speed. The only think that could have a very slight effect is a build-up of deposits from the belt on the motor pulley. If this has happened it should be easily visible, and can be removed with a cotton bud and a suitable solvent such as IPA.
It’s difficult to measure speed accurately. I have little faith in phone apps after having tried three different ones on my iPhone and got three different answers! A strobe disk will tell you if the turntable is running slow or fast relative to mains frequency, but if it is, there’s not a lot you can do about it.
From what I remember, the UK market TT2s did run very slightly fast because when we calculated the correct pulley diameter, a slight error was introduced because we hadn’t specified the belt at that point so didn’t take into account the belt thickness. The US market pulleys were a different size due to the fact that you use 60Hz mains over there so the motor runs faster, but the same thing could well have happened. It’s not a fault as such, more a design error!
Unless you are blessed (or possibly cursed) with perfect pitch, it’s not going to make much difference!
thegratefuldad
28-03-2022, 22:30
Now I will just go enjoy the music........a big thank you Shane
you are a nice guy
I appreciate it
Wakefield Turntables
28-06-2022, 19:21
I just joined the club should be a fun journey.
Hope so!
is that the one that just sold on eBay?
Wakefield Turntables
29-06-2022, 19:01
Hope so!
is that the one that just sold on eBay?
Probably but several have been put up for sale. I should get it next week.
Wakefield Turntables
26-07-2022, 19:22
Yes, Shane, No - 455. Not done a great deal with it. I managed to score a NOS belt. I've an Alphason HR100S waiting to be bolted on the tonearm board. I need to find the relevant bolts, or maybe even make a new tonearm board. I've started looking for a external PSU as well, this will hopefully be switchable bewteen my TD160 super and the TT2. Am I correct in thinking the TT2 platter speed varies according to voltage variations?
No, not significantly. It uses the same Impex/Premotec/Airpax 24 pole synchronous motor as used by Linn, Rega et al, which is also very similar to the Thorens. As such, speed is dictated by supply frequency rather than voltage. Like all synchronous motors, it will vibrate slightly if fed with a less than pure mains waveform, hence the benefit of a regenerative PSU. I’ll be interested to hear your opinion of the difference that makes.
Nice arm choice. I always liked the Alphason titanium arms.
IIRC s/no 455 should be a steel chassis version. Nice.
Wakefield Turntables
16-08-2022, 19:12
Shane, hope your viewing! I've found some time to mess around with the TT2. Firstly I need to make a new baseboard. I intend using thick birch plywood, would this be ok or would you suggest something different? Is there a specific thickness to the baseboard, or would thicker and heavier be better for damping the plinth? I got the isokinetik external PSU so I'll give you some feedback when I've got the thing fully setup.
The original baseboard was just bog-standard hardboard. Due to the way the plinth was constructed it didn’t make a huge amount of difference as I remember, but it might be worth some experimentation. 6mm birch ply maybe?
I don’t know if yours is one of the very early ones which had four M6x10 bolts for feet? If so, junk them! Changing to simple rubber bung feet tidied things up to a surprising extent.
Wakefield Turntables
17-08-2022, 18:40
OK 6mm birch ply or whatever I find @ Wickes tomorrow! What oil do you recommend for the bearing, and finally is it worth using anything else other than a felt mat? The Alphason is now properly mounted, I messed around last night and fitted it. I'll probably lightly polish the spindle and inner platter, maybe polish the outer platter as well. Aseathetically the black base could do with a fresh lick of black paint and I may lightly sand and varnish the veneer, I may lightly wax it, I'm not decided yet.
For oil, I’d avoid anything meant for use in any part of a car as these are full of additives which are vital for their intended function but no good for turntables. Any decent quality light machine oil such as sewing machine oil will do. There are all sorts of people with exotic recipes for turntable bearing oil which will probably be fine, but I doubt if they make a significant difference.
I wouldn’t worry about polishing the bearing shaft. As long as it’s clean the ground surface of the shaft helps the oil to adhere. Do check the end of the shaft for any sign of an indentation where it sits on the ball though. If there’s any wear there that won’t polish out, a local machine shop should be able to lap the end flat. If you then lift the ball out with a magnet and let it settle back in, the shaft will the sit on a new point on the ball.
Mats are a good area for experimentation. I’ve always stuck with the original felt mat the we bought in from Linn, but people have given good reports of cork, leather, hard rubber and even copper. From what I gather, you have plenty of alternatives available!
Really looking forward to hearing what you think of it!
Wakefield Turntables
18-08-2022, 16:38
Thanks for all the help so far shane. Very good of you.
Always happy to help keep a TT2 going!
Wakefield Turntables
19-08-2022, 19:23
Shane, should the platter have a specific ride height relative to the TT top plate? Thorens, for example recommends the platter being 10mm from the TD160 super top plate. I had a look under the hood of my TT2, it's looks quite difficult to the height of the springs, the nuts seemed to be housed in some "star" shaped widgets?? Did all TT2's come with their springs preset so that platters sat level?
Setting the suspension height is done by turning the bolts from above, not the nuts from below! All you need is a 6mm Allen key. The suspension bolts are a tight fit in the plinth so they will turn with the key but once set, they won’t move. The whole idea of the rubbers on the nuts is that they don’t allow the nuts to rotate when you turn the bolts.
The lower edge of the platter should sit 5mm above the top of the plinth. If this is right, the arm board should then be level with the edge of the plinth, and if the suspension springs and arm cable are set up correctly it should sit centrally in the opening.
The suspension springs should be in the correct orientation as set in the factory so you shouldn’t need to move them. If you do though, each spring has a red line drawn down it which should be aligned with a red triangle on the chassis. Unless the suspension’s been dismantled at some time they’re unlikely to have moved but it’s a simple job to realign them.
If you’re a member of the Vinyl Engine, you can download a copy of the user manual which has all this in it.
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/heybrook/tt2.shtml
Wakefield Turntables
29-08-2022, 15:46
Shane,
Very impressed with your TT design, it's a great sounding deck. My example has had a little bit of a hard life. I've done minimal work on it so far. Somebody has definitely messed around with the springs, they are not aligned and probably need twisting a quater turn or so, one of the rubbers for the nut appears to be quite squashed compared to the other two so I wonder if someone has overdone the torsion on this? The platter isn't sitting flush to the top plate yet, yep I know this is essential but I've simply not had time recently to even blink! I've given the spindle housing a new change of oil, I've changed the belt and cleaned belt pulley. The belt pulley had several decades of crap so this couldn't have helped.
I've had a look at the thrust bearing, it's got significant wear, can you tell me the diameter so I can order up a replacement? There do appear to be other things that need doing but that's it for now.
Glad you like it!
The alignment of the springs is quite critical to getting an even bounce. All coil springs “lean” a bit when compressed, and the art is to get them to lean in the right direction. I’m hoping that your TT2 still has its original springs fitted. I’ve come across a few reports of TT2s being fitted with Linn springs, although I’ve never worked out how (or indeed why) anyone would do this as they’re different in length, diameter and stiffness and will completely change the behaviour of the suspesion. Presumably they hope some Linn magic pixie dust will transform the listening experience…
If you look at the photo below (which I pinched from a post by Alec124c42 on Vinyl Engine. Hope he doesn’t mind!), you can see that each spring should have a red line down it joining the ends of the coils. You can also see the little stick-on vinyl triangles on the chassis next to the suspension holes that the lines should line up with. If the stickers are missing you can use this photo as a guide to where they should be as they were always in the same position. Once you’ve got that sorted it should be straightforward to level the chassis by adjusting the bolts, and dressing the arm lead correctly.
Is it the ball or the bottom of the spindle that’s worn? Both are 10mm diameter, but neither should need replacing. If the ball is worn where the spindle sits on it, just pull it out with a magnet and drop it back in so the spindle sits on a new point on the ball’s surface. If the bottom of the spindle is worn you won’t easily be able to replace it. Instead I would take it to a local precision engineer to have the flat in the bottom re-ground.
https://i.postimg.cc/wBBfR2yD/C4-B98-EDC-9-F11-4-DBE-977-E-A5-BDD2989-F30.jpg (https://postimg.cc/87qBqhbC)
Wakefield Turntables
30-08-2022, 19:28
I've still got the original springs and stickers under the hood. I did a little levelling tonight and had everything at 5mm distance from the platter top plate. I then put the belt on and the rear of the platter sunk an extra 1-2mm, it's too late now to do anything, I've had a long day labouring. Tomorrow I'll start with fresh gusto and try and get the platter properly flush. I must say I really liked what I heard when the platter was skewed so a level platter should help things further still :lol:. Do you think the TT would benefit from just sitting on a 50mm bamboo board without the baseboard? I only ask because I'm currently feeling a little idle!
Have you fitted a new belt? The reason I ask is because I had a similar experience. About fifteen years ago I started fooling around building an idler drive turntable out of a couple of lumps of slate and some spare TT2 bits, and gave my old TT2 (cast chassis version) to my nephew. Once I’d finished scratching that itch I had a hankering to go back to my original idea and bought a very early steel chassis TT2 off eBay, which to my delight turned out to be one of the very first batch. The first thing I did was to buy a new belt but the one I received did exactly what yours is doing so I reverted back to the old one which is almost certainly the original. After cleaning up the motor pulley which, like yours, was covered in black gunge, it worked fine and is still doing so ten years later.
I’m at a bit of a loss to explain this since the belt I bought came from Guy at Puresound who bought up the remaining stock of TT2 bits when Heybrook went belly-up in the mid 90s. Now I know that a lot of changes were made to the plinth in the time between me leaving Heybrook in 1984 and the company’s demise, but I don’t think they ever made any mechanical changes through the life of the turntable other than the cast chassis, which happened when I was still there, so unless they changed the supplier at some point, the belt fitted to the last turntable should be identical to the one fitted to the first. Be that as it may, though, the one I received was definitely shorter than the original.
I would suggest that the best thing to do would be to give the pulley, the sub-platter and the old belt itself a thoroughly good clean with IPA and see how you get on with that.
As I’ve said before, because of the way the plinth is constructed, it’s less sensitive to changes to the baseboard than the likes of the Linn or Thorens, but as with all turntables it does make a difference what you sit it on. Ideally a light but rigid table if you have solid floors or wall shelf if you don’t will give the turntable a stable platform without providing a feedback path from your speakers. Failing that, if you have to stand it on a resonant box like a sideboard or similar, then standing it on something heavy like a granite or slate slab would be best. As always though, the best solution will only be found by trial and error.
I was about to add a photo of the old and new belts together, but the new one seems to have disappeared. Must be up in the loft, so maybe another day…
walpurgis
31-08-2022, 08:57
I actually think the TT2 is a beautiful classic design and have always fancied one, I'll probably never get around to it now. Still, I do have its older cousin, the Thorens TD150 II, which sounds just lovely! :)
There’s three on eBay at the moment if you fancy a punt!
walpurgis
31-08-2022, 13:31
There’s three on eBay at the moment if you fancy a punt!
That would be nice, but I just don't play records that much these days so I'll stick with what I have.
Wakefield Turntables
31-08-2022, 19:41
Shane,
I think your observation about belts could be wholly correct. I bought mine off ebay from a hifi supplier, belt supposed to NOS. The belt did appear to be too short, old belt replaced and everything sits level @ 5mm. Not tried spinning vinyl yet I'm awaiting a new cart, so hopefully in next week or two should have some news.
Wakefield Turntables
06-09-2022, 20:04
Hi Shane,
Just a quick message. The TT2 is an excellent deck, it's the first belt drive I've owned since I sold my LP12 probably 10 years ago. It's a keeper. I'm having loads of fun trying various MM carts on the Alphason arm and currently have a pair of fully restored JR149 speakers playing The Wall (Pink Floyd). What a great deck you designed. I've added a splash of oil, re-aligned the springs and reset the platter height, cleaned the belt spindle and that's it. The deck hasn't needed any other work. It's still looking a little sorry for itself and I may do a light restoration at some point, might make a thread. Anyway, thanks for everything,.
Andy
Thanks Andy, it still gives me a kick to know that there are people out there enjoying their TT2s forty years on. Hope it keeps you happy for another forty years!
Wakefield Turntables
11-09-2022, 18:47
Hi Shane,
Just another quicky. I'm well on my way to restoring the TT2, I'll be doing a thread at some point. This question is regards the badge on the top of the TT lid. I see that your avatar is of this very same badge. Do you know if this is the correct badge for TT2's with serial numbers <500? Bit of a weird question but I'm a bit OCD about these things.
Andy
Certainly is! The photo in my avatar is of my own TT2 s-no 177. They were definitely still using the same one when I left in 1984, by which time they were up to about s-no 2000. As far as I know it was never changed. The lid itself of course was bought in from Linn.
Wakefield Turntables
11-09-2022, 19:42
That's great thanks Shane.
Wakefield Turntables
30-10-2022, 15:49
Shane,
Am I right in thinking that Walnut veneer was used on the early TT2's, also was the veneer varnished or simply waxed/oiled? I ask these questions as I'm nearing the end of the Restoration of my own TT2 and the veneer is the last thing to be restored.
Thanks as always
Andy
Sorry Andy, only just spotted this.
The plinths were made by Greaves of Sheffield who were also responsible for the HB2 and HB3 cabs, and probably about half of all the other UK speakers in the early 80s. Peter C took all the drawings to Greaves and did all the negotiations with them so I never got to see the manufacturing process, but I believe the finish on the veneer was a light clear cellulose lacquer which was just sprayed on. The options were either teak like yours or black (black was always an option for everybodies speakers and plinths. Saved scrapping teak ones with blemishes!). I don't think there was a walnut option but I could be wrong. I seem to remember a one-off rosewood plinth which looked gorgeous!
On the subject of the plinth and since this is the general info thread, time for a small admission. I've seen several people refer to having problems with some arms touching the lid when closed and wondering whether they've got the arm set up correctly. My fault! As long as we were going to use the Linn lid, the TT2 was always going to look a lot like an LP12 but I wanted to differentiate it as much as possible, so I put in the black cutaway around the bottom of the plinth and also raised the top plate above the plinth surround by 5mm with a chamfered edge. This gave the turntable a nice solid look, but also because the veneered area was now a lot narrower than the LP12, it made it look slimmer as well and overall I was jolly pleased with it. The only trouble was that raising the top plate by 5mm effectively lowered the lid by the same amount, hence the problem with some arms touching.
I always play any turntable with the lid open since I've seen lid static lift an arm right of an LP before now, so I never realised it was a problem until a dealer commented on it well into production!
Wakefield Turntables
16-11-2022, 19:44
No worries Shane, thanks for the additional info on the history of the deck, always very interesting to hear these snippets of information.
Idlewithnodrive
23-11-2024, 19:59
Thread necro, so that others can find it, as it's a very useful resource.
Here's my TT2.
https://d28lcup14p4e72.cloudfront.net/281995/9082794/1000019844.jpg
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