Mains power leads

[Stryder5]

Don't know if this has been done before or.....to death, but heyho.

Having just "upgraded " some of my mains leads, specifically amplifier and cd transport and found positive improvements, anyone else heard any changes.

Don't want to start a discussion between the dogma of "cables can't make any differences" just personal observations please.

Gary

[narabdela]

OK, I'll keep it simple. No I Haven't.

[Stryder5]

OK, I'll keep it simple. No I Haven't.

Cool, appreciated.

[Bigman80]

Haven't really experimented with power cables but it's next on the list. I have a DIY BMU in the pipeline. What cable have you used Gary?

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Beobloke]

I have never heard any powr cable change make any difference. And I include in this a £1500 thing that was so ridiculously thick and unwieldy that fitting it round the back of my rack was like trying to push a hyperactive anaconda up a drainpipe when it would seriously rather have been elsewhere.

[Stryder5]

Russ Andrews Yello, and some I made myself from 2 runs of aerial cable ( solid cores, difficult to work with) but great results to me anyway......lol




Haven't really experimented with power cables but it's next on the list. I have a DIY BMU in the pipeline. What cable have you used Gary?

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[RobbieGong]

I have never heard any powr cable change make any difference. And I include in this a £1500 thing that was so ridiculously thick and unwieldy that fitting it round the back of my rack was like trying to push a hyperactive anaconda up a drainpipe when it would seriously rather have been elsewhere.

:lol:

[Jimbo]

Don't know if this has been done before or.....to death, but heyho.

Having just "upgraded " some of my mains leads, specifically amplifier and cd transport and found positive improvements, anyone else heard any changes.

Don't want to start a discussion between the dogma of "cables can't make any differences" just personal observations please.

Gary

:) This subject has been done to death Gary but I see no reason why it can't be aired again as some folk may have missed the discussions first time round.;) All I would say is that mains cables do make a difference, some would say even more than Interconnects! I think it is best to experiment yourself and listen to the differences but for what its worth my experience has found significant improvements especially to my Pre and power amps although they do require different cables. I would just say that I replace my switched sockets with unswitched silver plated sockets as well to obtain futher improvements. I felt it was necessary to look at all my mains and mains leads including earthing to gain a marked sonic benefit.

[Boyse6748]

Wasted more money on this issue than I wish to mention........ “No difference or improvement”


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RothwellAudio]

Yes, I have heard a difference, though I don't know why it made a difference. Without knowing why, I am loath to recommend anything based on the principal that "it's more expensive so it must be better". There must be a more scientific principal at work. Unfortunately I don't know what that principal is.

[Stryder5]

Thanks for this, to me cost wasn't an issue as the one I made from parts that cost less than £10, were as good as bought ones that themselves weren't expensive.

The principle was could I hear a positive contribution to my listening pleasure.




Yes, I have heard a difference, though I don't know why it made a difference. Without knowing why, I am loath to recommend anything based on the principal that "it's more expensive so it must be better". There must be a more scientific principal at work. Unfortunately I don't know what that principal is.

[MrRadish]

I tested a Russ Andrews Powerkord against generic cables a while back and there was a slight improvement to bass and noise floor. I was mostly trying to eliminate mains problems rather than improve sound quality at the time (the RA cable helped, but it was like pissing in the wind given how bad the noise was) and subsequently discovered that proper filtering was required. I remember the cable burn in process being quite dramatic though.

I also used some Mark Grant DSP2.5 cables to replace the generic APC and Maplin IEC 14 to IEC 13 cables coming out of a Furman filter. The dynamics were completely squashed with the generic cables and thankfully the MG ones sorted it out. I couldn't afford any more RA cables at that point so went looking for an alternative and found MG.

I haven't actually compared the RA cables to MG yet, but will do at some point. To be honest the MG is so much cheaper I just buy those now.

[RothwellAudio]

The principle was could I hear a positive contribution to my listening pleasure.

That's the effect rather than the cause. I was stumped as to what the cause could be.

[Stryder5]

That's the effect rather than the cause. I was stumped as to what the cause could be.

The effect, if any, was my target

I guess perhaps somewhere out there the cause is understood, if only we knew the answer.....lol

[George47]

Yes.

Infuriatingly the effect varied from component to component.

So in my case ARC valve amps did not show a great change with any cable bar the Transparent Audio mains cable. A Nord Class D amp showed differences between a cheap cable and a shielded Supra mains cable. So very much a try and see approach but not surprised when some people report no great gains (valve amps?) or real differences with solid state amps.

[Svend N]

Gary, I can't comment as yet on the effect of a component's power cable, but I will very soon. I have made up a 12ga. cable for my power amp (ss Belles) which I intend to swap in within the next couple of days. I'll report back here if I notice any difference (or not). That said, I have had the power cables upgraded on a preamp and CD player (the latter to a shielded one), but I really can't say if they improved the sound as they were part of a whole bunch of other mods done at the same time.

However, I can categorically state that running a dedicated power line from the breaker box to the audio system made a very noticeable difference. This was one of the first things I did nearly 20 years ago when first building up a decent system. The differences, albeit not dramatic, were immediately apparent -- better dynamics, fuller sound. I would never set up a good system now without being able to do this, if at all possible. While this is a bit off-topic from your original question, it's quite related, and should be viewed as part of the overall system, in my opinion.

Hope this helps.

Best,
Svend

[walpurgis]

I have never heard any powr cable change make any difference.

I'm glad it was you said that Adam. I'd have been hauled over the coals if I'd done it, even though I agree! :D

[montesquieu]

Yes.

Infuriatingly the effect varied from component to component.

So in my case ARC valve amps did not show a great change with any cable bar the Transparent Audio mains cable. A Nord Class D amp showed differences between a cheap cable and a shielded Supra mains cable. So very much a try and see approach but not surprised when some people report no great gains (valve amps?) or real differences with solid state amps.

Nice to hear from you George, been low profile (here at least).

I bought some Audusa Eupen 05/4.0GNLM probably 8-9 years ago and thought I heard a difference - I have used them ever since, for the main components anyway.

[ovlov854]

I installed a spur just for audio using 30 amp quality cable and crabtree sockets which made a substantial improvement a few years ago
I have since used quality mains cables since which further improved things but not by as much.
I think that it pays to get a dedicated ring main installed if practical !!!!! rather than spend stupid money on mains cables as the differences become more and more subtle.

Says the blocke who just bought a used Cardas Golden Power!!!!!!!!!!
:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

[ovlov854]

Yes, I have heard a difference, though I don't know why it made a difference. Without knowing why, I am loath to recommend anything based on the principal that "it's more expensive so it must be better". There must be a more scientific principal at work. Unfortunately I don't know what that principal is.

Think you've just hit the nail on the head

[MikeMusic]

Big time changes here from mains cables.

That led me into other mains improvements all of which make a nice difference.
In kit list below.

Anyone want to come to North West Surrey I can demo

[Svend N]

Here's an explanation of the principle behind it.... http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/ac-cords.htm

Interesting reading.

It might be good to hear from a repair tech on this subject. Someone who deals with these questions as a matter of routine when they work on modding/upgrading a component.

[sq225917]

Put the old ones back in the improvement usually stays

[sq225917]

Measure the voltage coming out of the psu caps... No difference

[hifi_dave]

Yes, I have heard differences when changing mains cables, not always better or worse, just different. Providing the cables don't cost more than 100 quid or so, I don't see any reason why not to experiment.

[Macca]

A few years ago I was intrigued so bought a power cord on here, second hand, think it was £20. It does look the business but since then I have used it on countless power amps and cd players and cross compared with the standard lead. I've never heard a difference.

Nevertheless, you can't just dismiss the subjective experiences of thousands of people. So I suspect that there is something going on, albeit situation dependant. And it probably has a technical explanation. But unless you first know what exactly is happening it is pretty hard to give a technical explanation.

One point to note though, if you really want to know if the thing is actually making a difference, make sure you level-match your comparisons and ideally, have someone else swap the cords (or pretend to). The level-matching is most important as even a 0.5 dB increase in sound level will come across as an 'improvement' in sound quality. That's only the tiniest tweak of the volume knob.A trick that dishonest comparison demonstrators have used for years. Remote control has made it even easier to do.

[hifi_dave]

The way I test mains cables is to use an amp with a good power supply. I can swap over mains leads without reducing volume, muting or switching off, just change mains leads and listen for differences.

[Svend N]

A few years ago I was intrigued so bought a power cord on here, second hand, think it was £20. It does look the business but since then I have used it on countless power amps and cd players and cross compared with the standard lead. I've never heard a difference.

Nevertheless, you can't just dismiss the subjective experiences of thousands of people. So I suspect that there is something going on, albeit situation dependant. And it probably has a technical explanation. But unless you first know what exactly is happening it is pretty hard to give a technical explanation.

One point to note though, if you really want to know if the thing is actually making a difference, make sure you level-match your comparisons and ideally, have someone else swap the cords (or pretend to). The level-matching is most important as even a 0.5 dB increase in sound level will come across as an 'improvement' in sound quality. That's only the tiniest tweak of the volume knob.A trick that dishonest comparison demonstrators have used for years. Remote control has made it even easier to do.

So true! I attended a demo event by the local rep for a large turntable manufacturer (name withheld), in which he compared various TT models to a high end CD player. In every A-B comparison he had the turntable playing louder, which of course made it sound better...more dynamic, etc.. When I called him out on it (which displeased him greatly) he denied that it was intentional but still didn't make an effort to match levels.

[Macca]

So true! I attended a demo event by the local rep for a large turntable manufacturer (name withheld), in which he compared various TT models to a high end CD player. In every A-B comparison he had the turntable playing louder, which of course made it sound better...more dynamic, etc.. When I called him out on it (which displeased him greatly) he denied that it was intentional but still didn't make an effort to match levels.

One easy mistake to make is to listen with a stock cord, then put in the new, fancy cord and turn the levels up because you figure that if there is going to be an improvement it will only be small, so you want to be able to hear it. You're not intending to deceive yourself, but you do anyway.

[narabdela]

Nevertheless, you can't just dismiss the subjective experiences of thousands of people. So I suspect that there is something going on, albeit situation dependant. And it probably has a technical explanation.

There is. It's called expectation bias. :sofa:

[walpurgis]

Can you take precautions if you're expecting expectation bias? :)

[Macca]

There is. It's called expectation bias. :sofa:

I think in some cases, yes. Or failure to do the comparison with as few variables as possible, as in the example I gave above. But I don't think these explanations apply in all cases in which people have heard marked improvements.

Anyway op did not ask for a discussion just personal experience so I'll leave it there.

[Jimbo]

Can you take precautions if you're expecting expectation bias? :)

Yes you can expect expectation bias!:lol:

[Wakefield Turntables]

I've never heard a difference which is weird because I've had numerous IC's over the years where a difference can be heard, how do you work that out? :scratch:

All you need is a decent quality shielded copper cable with a decent plug and male IEC. Furutech or Belden work very well and it's what powers my systems.

[walpurgis]

I've never heard a difference which is weird because I've had numerous IC's over the years where a difference can be heard, how do you work that out? :scratch:

Interconnects handle signals. Mains cables don't.

[sq225917]

How's the mains 50hz not a signal?

[walpurgis]

It's a cycle. No audio information there.

[narabdela]

Do they still teach Physics in schools? :scratch:

[Yomanze]

It's a cycle. No audio information there.

Known as hum if it’s made audible. :P

[montesquieu]

Do they still teach Physics in schools? :scratch:

I think for any ignorance displayed here, the schools of today are blameless - many of the schools from the 1960s, 70s or (at a push) 80s this mob went to have been demolished!

[Macca]

'80s and no it hasn't been. Yet. :)

[Marco]

Yes you can expect expectation bias!:lol:

The cognitive dissonance always skews my expectation bias, so I don't quite know what to expect... Is this Monday? :eyebrows:

Marco.

[walpurgis]

Is this Monday? :eyebrows:

Marco.

Yup. All day apparently. :)


And the site of my old school has been a housing estate for a generation or two.

[Edward]

Surely the PSU in a well designed amp will clean up any anomalies in the leccy it receives?

Probably a numpty question. :)

[wee tee cee]

experiment for yourself.

One of the Scottish mafia had a play with a load of cables and wires i loaned him....every element he changed he heard a difference!

trust yer ears....

[Macca]

Surely the PSU in a well designed amp will clean up any anomalies in the leccy it receives?

Probably a numpty question. :)

In theory, yes.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Here's definite 100% proof that power cables work :lol: https://www.analogplanet.com/content/day-two-ces-2018-proof-ac-cables-make-big-sonic-difference

[walpurgis]

I agree. They definitely work. My system won't switch on without mains cables in place. And I do notice differences between cables, some are thicker that others, some have nice braided covers, some are various colours, some cost lots and lots. ;)

[Pieoftheday]

I agree. They definitely work. My system won't switch on without mains cables in place. And I do notice differences between cables, some are thicker that others, some have nice braided covers, some are various colours, some cost lots and lots. ;)

Correct me if I'm wrong Geoff , are you being a tad sarcy?;)

[walpurgis]

Correct me if I'm wrong Geoff , are you being a tad sarcy?;)

Me.....? Never. Totally against my nature! And anyway, the big boys might pick on me. :D

[Stryder5]

I find it interesting that you ask a simple question on personal experience and you get all this justification and sarcasm, do people actually read the OP, or just post for personal gratification.

If you don't read the OP and don't want to be constructive, why don't you write a post entitled " Me and all about me".

[Pieoftheday]

Me.....? Never. Totally against my nature! And anyway, the big boys might pick on me. :D

Your a very bad man:) can't say mains cables have helped me but I've not tried that many

[walpurgis]

It's a cable thread, they attract any kind of response, as I'm sure you know. I did read your first post, if you believe your new cable arrangements are beneficial, fine. I'm a skeptic and entitled to be one and to make that clear. I've yet to hear a mains cable make a difference audible to me. Yes, I've been to demo's of fancy ones and remain unconvinced. Mains treatment is another matter and has possible benefits.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Cables work if you hear a difference. Who really gives a shit what other people think? If your happy, your happy. Trust YOUR OWN ears!

[Stryder5]

It's a cable thread, they attract any kind of response, as I'm sure you know. I did read your first post, if you believe your new cable arrangements are beneficial, fine. I'm a skeptic and entitled to be one and to make that clear. I've yet to hear a mains cable make a difference audible to me. Yes, I've been to demo's of fancy ones and remain unconvinced. Mains treatment is another matter and has possible benefits.

Personal gratification it is then:lol:

[walpurgis]

Personal gratification it is then:lol:

No. It's my naturally flippant character that gets into my posts. I'm too old to change my ways so folks will have to put up with it. ;)

[walpurgis]

I've actually bought some 15 amp mains cable, which is what I'll be using for any new 'wires'. Nothing fancy.

This (nice in blue :)): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-CORE-15-AMP-ARTIC-BLUE-MAINS-ELECTRICAL-CABLE-FLEX-EXTERNAL-OUTDOOR-PER-METER/261812729182?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Rather than worry about cables, I have a DC blocker project in hand, been waiting for bits for a while. I now need to order longer circuit board stand-offs, so another wait. Anyway, that will be tried with a spike protector in series. We'll see what positives or negatives may arise.

[Stryder5]

No. It's my naturally flippant character that gets into my posts. I'm too old to change my ways so folks will have to put up with it. ;)

I always did like the definition of "flippant"

frivolous, superficial, shallow, glib, thoughtless, carefree, irresponsible, insouciant, offhand;

[walpurgis]

Well there you go. :lol:

[Edward]

Don't know if this has been done before or.....to death, but heyho.

Having just "upgraded " some of my mains leads, specifically amplifier and cd transport and found positive improvements, anyone else heard any changes.

Don't want to start a discussion between the dogma of "cables can't make any differences" just personal observations please.

Gary


Gary

What cables did you change from and to? How would you describe the 'positive improvements'? What is your cable setup? Did you change the cables from the wall or just from a distribution strip (assuming you use one).

cheers

[Stryder5]

Gary

What cables did you change from and to? How would you describe the 'positive improvements'? What is your cable setup? Did you change the cables from the wall or just from a distribution strip (assuming you use one).

cheers

Hi Edward,

I'm lucky, I have a seperate supply from our substation that is probably less than 50 metres away. Houses that were built much later than ours have a seperate supply.

My vinyl has wall mount power supplies so the improvement was only noted by amp.

I put in a seperate supply from our distribution point to the lounge for the sound equipment.

No distribution strip.

I was using the std cables that came with the equipment. Recently bought (used) Russ Andrews Yello. Hearing the improvement I made a lead myself from 2 lengths of low loss aerial cable using centre conductor for feed and screen for earth.

The difference I heard was when I changed the leads sequentially, starting with the integrated amp. More dynamics, detail, bass depth and definition. Next my CD transport, then my DAC. These added a little more to the party in terms of detail.

The amp showed the most improvement.

[brian2957]

You're not hearing things Gary . The improvements which you have described above have been my experience too . I've been playing around with mains cables for years now and wouldn't be without mine . Make sure you have the following . A good quality unswitched socket . MK Logic or Crabtree . A good quality mains block if you need one , and good quality mains cable and plugs . This Belden mains cable is excellent VFM https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BELDEN-19364-AUDIOPHILE-SHIELDED-MAINS-POWER-CABLE-PER-METRE-FREE-UK-POSTAGE/152136104589?epid=1950158533&hash=item236c04ba8d:g:gFkAAOxyJX1TDRbU . If you want to upgrade contact David Brook at MCRU . He'll let you try some very nice cables . He's a very helpful guy .
Above all , use your own ears . If you hear an improvement , then it's an improvement . Your ears , your system , your music :)

[Edward]

Sounds interesting Gary

So you tried three separate cables? The ones that came with the equipment, the low loss coax cable and the Yello cable? I'm not clear why you introduced the coax cable.

Did you undertake the separate supply from your domestic unit yourself and how? Do you recall if this itself provided much 'positive improvement'? I've often wondered if I should ask my sparky to provide an additional new domestic (separate) unit and run from this to my listening room.

[Stryder5]

You're not hearing things Gary . The improvements which you have described above have been my experience too . I've been playing around with mains cables for years now and wouldn't be without mine . Make sure you have the following . A good quality unswitched socket . MK Logic or Crabtree . A good quality mains block if you need one , and good quality mains cable and plugs . This Belden mains cable is excellent VFM https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BELDEN-19364-AUDIOPHILE-SHIELDED-MAINS-POWER-CABLE-PER-METRE-FREE-UK-POSTAGE/152136104589?epid=1950158533&hash=item236c04ba8d:g:gFkAAOxyJX1TDRbU . If you want to upgrade contact David Brook at MCRU . He'll let you try some very nice cables . He's a very helpful guy .
Above all , use your own ears . If you hear an improvement , then it's an improvement . Your ears , your system , your music :)

It's interesting you mention hearing.

As part of a regular checkup I had a hearing test. I was introduced into a special test room, had headphones installed and the nice specialist started my hearing test. Pressing a button when hearing differing frequency tones.

Just after starting the test I signalled I was not happy. I found the room was not quiet enough, I called in the tester and advised her of my issue. Without headphones she said she couldn't hear anything. Having told her I could she disbelievingly she fetched her SPM. The registered level showed issues.

When they built the "soundproof" room they didn't have the air conditioning working, the noise I heard was from the inlet which was on my right.

The room had been in use for about 18 months with no previous complaints.

The consultants had been using the data from this room to advise patients.

[Stryder5]

Sounds interesting Gary

So you tried three separate cables? The ones that came with the equipment, the low loss coax cable and the Yello cable? I'm not clear why you introduced the coax cable.

Did you undertake the separate supply from your domestic unit yourself and how? Do you recall if this itself provided much 'positive improvement'? I've often wondered if I should ask my sparky to provide an additional new domestic (separate) unit and run from this to my listening room.

Seperate supply was done and certified by a qualified electrician (friend) when we rewired the house some 18 years ago before we moved in, so can't comment on any improvement from before, but having suffered from switching noises from domestic appliances in previous homes I took the opportunity (at little extra cost) to get this done.

I read an article some time ago about making this double coax cable with favourable results so thought I would try it, it replicated the Russ Andrews cable. It was a pain to do with solid copper conductors.

I thought I had saved the link to the article but unfortunately I cannot find it anywhere. It was part of an article on making mains conditioners.


Found it

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/mains_e.html

[wee tee cee]

Brian, Gary and myself made numerous mains cables.

Different plugs/cable/fuses we sat down together and swapped them out at my place all hearing similar changes to the sound but not necessarily agreeing on what was best.

Brian has an awful lot of cable building experience and can detect very small sonic differences that different materials bring.

I do sometimes wonder if some folks just cant hear the difference!

[Pharos]

This subject is another 'can of worms' and a concern to me.

I have always used only standard IEC leads, but chosen the best with bronze connectors and if long, a higher current version. I have spent a considerable amount of time in audio both from interest and as a career, and a friend who is an audiologist said to me that he would always trust my ears

I am a sceptic about mains cables, not closed minded, but fearful of foo, and am of the view that power supplies effectively design out the need for special mains cables, pulses of current filling a reservoir negating the effects of the cables with the enormity of their storage capacity.

It is also potentially a very expensive game to get involved in.

[narabdela]

One of the Scottish mafia had a play with a load of cables and wires i loaned him....every element he changed he heard a difference!

trust yer ears....


Which Scotch was he on at the time? :drunk:

[Marco]

Oi - remember that this is a subjectivist forum, where ears always come first! ;)

Marco [firmly in the camp of mains leads, properly designed for hi-fi purposes, sonically outperforming basic 'kettle leads'].

[Stryder5]

This subject is another 'can of worms' and a concern to me.

I have always used only standard IEC leads, but chosen the best with bronze connectors and if long, a higher current version. I have spent a considerable amount of time in audio both from interest and as a career, and a friend who is an audiologist said to me that he would always trust my ears

I am a sceptic about mains cables, not closed minded, but fearful of foo, and am of the view that power supplies effectively design out the need for special mains cables, pulses of current filling a reservoir negating the effects of the cables with the enormity of their storage capacity.

It is also potentially a very expensive game to get involved in.

I am interested in bronze connectors, I have never seen any.

I thought bronze had lower electrical conductivity than brass or copper, certainly has better corrosion resistance.

Why did you choose bronze connectors and where from please.

[brian2957]

Bronze seems to be well down the scale of conductivity compared to silver https://www.thoughtco.com/the-most-conductive-element-606683

[narabdela]

Oi - remember that this is a subjectivist forum, where ears always come first! ;)



'Twas in jest........possibly. ;)

[walpurgis]

The current carrying abilities of varying metals makes no difference if the conductor cross-section is adequate. Look it up.

[brian2957]

I'll be sticking with copper . A decision based on my own experience .

[wee tee cee]

Which Scotch was he on at the time? :drunk:

Tamdhu....

[Edward]

Tamdhu....

Definitely a good single malt (especially from Speyside) is one of the ultimate audio tweaks. :cool:

[narabdela]

Tamdhu....

An excellent choice. :clap:

[Pharos]

Gary, The IEC leads I use are all Pencon, a company which I believe sold a lot of due to their use by Mac when producing the grey computers some time ago. Unfortunately they are also all grey, but many black were produced, and I recently bought one on Ebay, though I haven't seen them around for some time.

The conductors have been described as bronze by Farnell tech people, and they look copper coloured, but almost certainly are not copper which lacks spring ability, being malleable and ductile.

In the 60s copper beryllium alloys were used when a conductive spring was needed, but beryllium now has a very bad name H&S wise, so unlikely to be used. Who knows what the alloy is, but it is springy?

I also compress the plastic sides of the floating leads with a large toolmakers clamp to compress the floating 'U' shaped sockets, to ensure good interference fits.

Considering the small amount of metal involved in the series path, I doubt if the difference of resistance between materials would be even measurable, and they are also substantial in CSA.

[Stryder5]

Gary, The IEC leads I use are all Pencon, a company which I believe sold a lot of due to their use by Mac when producing the grey computers some time ago. Unfortunately they are also all grey, but many black were produced, and I recently bought one on Ebay, though I haven't seen them around for some time.

The conductors have been described as bronze by Farnell tech people, and they look copper coloured, but almost certainly are not copper which lacks spring ability, being malleable and ductile.

In the 60s copper beryllium alloys were used when a conductive spring was needed, but beryllium now has a very bad name H&S wise, so unlikely to be used. Who knows what the alloy is, but it is springy?

I also compress the plastic sides of the floating leads with a large toolmakers clamp to compress the floating 'U' shaped sockets, to ensure good interference fits.

Considering the small amount of metal involved in the series path, I doubt if the difference of resistance between materials would be even measurable, and they are also substantial in CSA.

Cool, thanks for your reply, I had not heard of bronze being used. I wasn't questioning your statement, I'll try and run some down.

[Pharos]

If you Google Pencon mains leads, the third entry is a sheet from a (old) Farnell catalogue showing them, two thirds down the LHS.

common.leocom.jp/pdfcat/catalogpage/1_0401.pdf

These are without plug, and I use 5A 3 pin plugs.

[Stryder5]

22467

This is the only thing I could find, I'm probably being thick, as the only thing I see is the contact material=phosphor bronze.

The attached may be too small but I don't know how to make it bigger.

[Pharos]

No I am not functioning very well ATM, and I didn't see any mention of contact material but phosphor-bronze seems about right, and that is the page I was referring to.

Phosphor-bronze is a bearing material, but I do not know about its Young's Modulus.

I'm sorry if I have been inefficient but I have worked every day since the beginning of Nov on refurbing the lounge, and am cumulatively tired. I hate the work.

[doodoos]

As George47 said previously, it depends on the equipment. I bought a new amp for Stax cans recently and borrowed a few mains cables to compare. Dunno if using cans show up differences more readily or not but there were changes when swapping over. Settled on this in the end. https://www.atlascables.com/power-eos-4dd-cable.html

[Pharos]

BTW my memory of the material was from '95.

[Blueflash]

I use Supra LoRad 2.5sq mm SPC cables for all of my mains leads. I am surrounded by WiFi points but it took me a while to realise the effects of RFI.

It was when I was checking over my Dac and saw a lot of fuzz on the digital signal then measured 2.4Ghz on the square wave top at 2.4mv !!

I decided that shielding was the way to go. So I changed all the mains cables over to LoRad which got rid of the sharpness on vocals and lead guitar.

[Pharos]

About 73dB down on the 5V then.

[Si74]

Possibly 17/18 years ago was quite happy with my system, had a few bob and thought I'd try some Russ Andrews stuff. Sort on convinced myself it sounded better. Bought a Shunyata power cord on the net, arrived with no plugs... how do I terminate this beast? Managed and put it on my cd player, road to Damascus doesn't come close. The only way I can describe it is I was hearing musicians playing as opposed to listening to a hi-fi/stereo what you will.
This led to some interesting buys from Audiogon, mainly cables at prices that shocked me but being second hand, manageable.. wife and bank manager notwithstanding......
First buy on Gon was a set of HMS Gran Finale speaker cables at some ludicrous price to my mind but about a third of retail.
Had me hooked. These made Kimber 8TC sound like the amp and speakers weren't even connected, problem was they had about 15 different settings and they were the cables I wanted for my dream system which I couldn't afford..
By the time the dreaded redundancy reared it's head (loved being in the Field, hated being a manager) I had built up a large list of contacts through Audiogon.

Outcome was I need an income and so for the next three years managed to get by selling used and new cables sourced from Audiogon. Was never going to get rich from people 'trialing' 3'Ks worth of Shunyata cables for 3 months then having to be forcefully reminded they were in fact on loan but hey ho it kept the Wolf from the door.

I had built up enough contacts I could buy 2.5K worth of Kimber Select at custom lengths, order on the Sunday from a dealer in Miami, have them in London for a party the next Saturday, he made a profit, I made a profit and the guy in London was delighted as he saved a fortune.
A contact in California did marketing for a raft of start up companies so got numerous cheap intros, Lessloss cables, ZYX cartridges, Shunyata from Malaysia thru the States, Virtual Dynamics, etc, etc, etc.
My friend offered to set me up with a drop shipping business that would have cost me nothing, he would provide any finance required.
He makes about 44K dollars a year as 'pocket money', the hi-fi room is a bungalow at the bottom of the garden past the swimming pool, etc

Long story short, made a living selling cables for 3 years to people obviously as deluded as myself.... 3K worth of Shunyata power cords for a 300 quid Denon system.. eh maybe not. I sold about 6K worth to a chap who has 5 ATC active systems in his house, fools and their money eh?

Years later after being f----d by two hi-fi shops opening locally, fronted by charlatans who in kindness , should have passed for used car salesmen but were 'possibly' a front for drug money.. hey ho, cables, racks, isolation and room treatments were all a figment of my imagination.. till they cottoned on to the profit margin.

By this time I had a system I could never had imagined owning, could not have dreamt of owning at retail prices and decided, sod all this crap!

2k power cord on your CD player, nirvana.. bought to power the Hydra powering the whole system, does it beat the Shunyata Anaconda designed for the job.. no.. hated selling it. Do interconnects make a difference, unless like mine which are fibre optics and break the ground leading to silence where needed, not a lot.
Speaker cables.. Cerious Audio liquid filled monsters and Virtual Dynamics Boa Constrictors had me in a quandry with my Pass X-250 but killed my Audiopax stone dead. Strangled the life and a cheap pair of skinny Aural thrills made them sound broken.
A pair of 4TC cables on my new amps, after dragging them hundreds of miles to my mates had me cringing, replaved with a 1600 quid set of Cutlooose and now we are talking.

Used to do a lot of reterminations from Kimber plugs, whatever to Oyaide plugs so a whole other set of loons payed me good money.
Got banned from Audiogon , my crime.. I adored Ultraglide power cords, Ghenghis Khan, Ultrakhan etc, you could swap these between components to alter the sound of your system. Initially ribbons conductors in copex but boy did they work. Problem being from the States no grounds and being deranged, I took them apart to add ground conductors and furnish better connectors. Company comes back fro the abyss, pays a fortune for their new superstar, take it apart, yo, a thick kettle lead.. publish with photos... banned!

I/C's ho hum, speaker leads, you can get really lucky, power cords, sorry if your kettle lead suffices, your ears or your system is a pile of .......

[Macca]

Interesting story Simon. Maybe you can answer a question that has always bugged me. Given there is no technical reason why a fancy power cord is any different to a standard one, how do the makers develop them? You can't use the standard model of physics and I'm guessing they have not made a paradigm-shifting breakthrough that they are keeping to themselves, so what are they using as a development guide? or do they just try wacky things until one works?

[jandl100]

I'm a firm cable believer and have tried some silly-priced gear over the years, including mains cables.
Yes, they make a difference that can be worthwhile imo.
But I find it pointless to spend multiple hundred £, for me the sweet spot lies in the £30 (mains cables) -£150 (speaker cables) slot, and I am perfectly happy with cables that cost me in that sort of region.

[Yomanze]

I think there needs to be some caution around power cables. They are one of the last things that should be considered, during the final tweaking of the system, and not a way to magically make your mid-range amp sound like a high-end one. They are not "game changers" and there is no "night and day" difference. If you're spending more than 10% of your budget on cables, then maybe a rethink is required...

In my experience they can make a minor, but worthwhile difference. Some sound a bit 'edgier' and 'harsher', some sound a bit 'smoother' and 'nicer'.

[Macca]

I think there needs to be some caution around power cables. They are one of the last things that should be considered, during the final tweaking of the system, and not a way to magically make your mid-range amp sound like a high-end one. They are not "game changers" and there is no "night and day" difference. If you're spending more than 10% of your budget on cables, then maybe a rethink is required...

In my experience they can make a minor, but worthwhile difference. Some sound a bit 'edgier' and 'harsher', some sound a bit 'smoother' and 'nicer'.

That all sounds reasonable but when you've got people saying that amplifiers are unlistenable without a fancy cable, or that they can tell what mains cables are in use by just listening to the system, even from outside the room, what are we to make of that?

[walpurgis]

they can tell what mains cables are in use by just listening to the system, even from outside the room

Are you telling me you can't? ;)

[Yomanze]

That all sounds reasonable but when you've got people saying that amplifiers are unlistenable without a fancy cable, or that they can tell what mains cables are in use by just listening to the system, even from outside the room, what are we to make of that?

I would switch cables with them out the room, a simple A/B test, so they can tell me which is the unlistenable one, and which one makes it so much better. ;)

[Barry]

That all sounds reasonable but when you've got people saying that amplifiers are unlistenable without a fancy cable, or that they can tell what mains cables are in use by just listening to the system, even from outside the room, what are we to make of that?

Yes I remember who that Member was. He also claimed to be able to hear changes in level of 0.01dB.

[YNWaN]

That all sounds reasonable but when you've got people saying that amplifiers are unlistenable without a fancy cable, or that they can tell what mains cables are in use by just listening to the system, even from outside the room, what are we to make of that?

That some people have very active imaginations - at least, that’s what I make of such claims.

[Macca]

That some people have very active imaginations - at least, that’s what I make of such claims.

Well that's it, isn't it? I like to give people the benefit of the doubt but sometimes they don't make it easy.

[clap]

I'm pleased to confirm that my system has never sounded better since recently adding a Furutech Alpha 3 cable with the Furutech plug and carbon fibre iec. It replaced a none too sloppy Oyaide cable with the same plug and an Iego iec. It sounded good before but there's now more detail. I attribute that to going from a solid core cable to a multi stranded one.

[icehockeyboy]

I think there needs to be some caution around power cables. They are one of the last things that should be considered, during the final tweaking of the system, and not a way to magically make your mid-range amp sound like a high-end one. They are not "game changers" and there is no "night and day" difference. If you're spending more than 10% of your budget on cables, then maybe a rethink is required...

In my experience they can make a minor, but worthwhile difference. Some sound a bit 'edgier' and 'harsher', some sound a bit 'smoother' and 'nicer'.

Russ Abbott disagrees with you!

Oops, I mean Russ Andrews!

Anyway, in his world sorting mains is the first thing to do.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[clap]

I'm pleased to confirm that my system has never sounded better since recently adding a Furutech Alpha 3 cable with the Furutech plug and carbon fibre iec. It replaced a none too sloppy Oyaide cable with the same plug and an Iego iec. It sounded good before but there's now more detail. I attribute that to going from a solid core cable to a multi stranded one.

I should say thst both the above cables were a bit better than the Mark Grant mains cables (which are themselves very good and off exceptional vfm).

[Yomanze]

Russ Abbott disagrees with you!

Oops, I mean Russ Andrews!

Anyway, in his world sorting mains is the first thing to do.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yeah, which isn’t at all surprising considering what his company sells. :D

[icehockeyboy]

Very true, however he does sell ic’s and speaker cables too, as the world and his dog know, but still advocates getting the mains sorted first.

I believe you and I are of the same frame of mind in that mains stuff makes the least difference when compared to speaker cable and ic’s.

[hifinutt]

when i had some beautiful belles mb100 monoblocks i put some valhalla mains leads on them , oh my it was horrible , soon went back to good old copper

[Si74]

I honestly have no idea, I read the bullshit, I listen and then make my own mind up. Put something in, take it out ad finitum. In many instances I have loaned people my Shunyata Hydra, only when I was on holiday. Take it back and ask what did it do? I'm not sure but in over a dozen instances they decided they had to have one? In most of these instances I thought the people had been fleeced given their systems sounded crap at multiples of cost over mine bought from around the world used. Really gets on my tits when inveterate box swappers with more money than sense finally realise that all the basics would transform their system until used car shysters cotton onto the profits in snake oil.. which power, cabling, isolation and room treatments aint. Then what really gets my back up is clowns who have no experience of anything that you might suggest say it's a load of crap! Given the ludicrous reviews of 11K turntables being ok for the price, I'll settle for my Oracle /Kuzma/Koetsu costing me around 1200 quid and kiss all this s--t goodbye! It really has become just a wankfest for folks with more money than sense.

[alphaGT]

I’ve replaced a few power cables in my system and I do believe they are making a difference. But, as said by others, it’s not night and day. I have not tried several high dollar cables, just cables that are better than stock, even one I made myself from Furutech wire I bought from eBay, and Wattgate plugs. Do I hear a difference? I think so, but if I had never heard the difference I don’t think it would hurt my feelings. I was already pretty happy with the sound. But! I’ve got a brand new cable for my amp that I have not introduced yet. I bought it when I bought the amp, it has a 20 amp socket and I did not know if the previous owner had the power cord or not. But when I got the amp it has the stock Krell power cord so I used it. And I have no problem with how it sounds now! But, I’m waiting on some new interconnects, some balanced cables from pre to amp, and I figure I’ll swap them all at the same time, no sense in moving all that heavy stuff but once. (I will listen after each change so I’ll know who is to blame for any improvements) The homemade cord is now powering my CD player, again, I feel it has made a difference, but I can’t testify that it’s smoothing the tops, or adding bass, it’s just a bit more right.

If you’re going to spend big money on nice gear, no sense in not trying to get your best from it. But do you need to spend thousands? I can’t see how they can justify those prices, the materials don’t add up. It’s just as likely that a 300 dollar cable will work for you as a 3000 dollar one, throwing money at a problem doesn’t guarantee a solution.

Russell

[jandl100]

.... In most of these instances I thought the people had been fleeced given their systems sounded crap at multiples of cost over mine bought from around the world used ....

And that is why definitive statements about subjective matters are not appropriate.

Most likely, you thought their systems sounded crap because their objectives didn't align with your own.
Different strokes for different folks.

I've heard many multi-£k systems and have preferred my own.
But that's not because other peoples' choices are crap, but because they have different requirements and opinions.

A little more humility would go a long way. ;)

[Stryder5]

And that is why definitive statements about subjective matters are not appropriate.

Most likely, you thought their systems sounded crap because their objectives didn't align with your own.
Different strokes for different folks.

I've heard many multi-£k systems and have preferred my own.
But that's not because other peoples' choices are crap, but because they have different requirements and opinions.

A little more humility would go a long way. ;)


:clapclapclap::clapclapclap:

[Anthony K]

I have had a number of different power cables. From Russ Andrews reference all the way up to Nordost Valhalla and Tyr 2.
Yes they make a difference. Some are overpriced, yes , but nobody is being held up at gunpoint and forced to buy. I love swapping out cables to hear the differences they bring to sound.

The Tyr 2 ,although expensive, is he best I have heard to date. Others come in much cheaper and are bargains on the second hand market.

Cardas , Wireworld , AFA , Synergistic research , Black Rhodium and LessLoss offer superb value for money,especially on the 2nd hand market

[Si74]

And that is why definitive statements about subjective matters are not appropriate.

Most likely, you thought their systems sounded crap because their objectives didn't align with your own.
Different strokes for different folks.

I've heard many multi-£k systems and have preferred my own.
But that's not because other peoples' choices are crap, but because they have different requirements and opinions.

A little more humility would go a long way. ;)

No it's because their systems are generally overpriced crap bought from shysters and becuase they have paid so much, it must be good,lol.

[prestonchipfryer]

No it's because their systems are generally overpriced crap bought from shysters and becuase they have paid so much, it must be good,lol.

You ain't got a list of who to avoid handy have you? Would be most useful for all then it would end all discussion as we'd all have the ''perfect'' system.

[r100]

...... throwing money at a problem doesn’t guarantee a solution ....

Russell

One of the best quotes I have read recently :-)