What gives a system slam and dynamics?

[Bourney]

Is it all out power and a speaker that shifts air or is there more to it than that? Is can it be achieved with high sensitive speakers and a lower powered amp?

[Firebottle]

Current delivery and adequate headroom to accommodate musical peaks.

[smithie]

Current delivery and adequate headroom to accommodate musical peaks.

spot on,along with some air shifting drivers to:)

[Macca]

Lots of cone area and the ability to move it very quickly will give you slam. I'd say high efficiency speakers with a suitable amp would be optimal for slam. Think of your classic JBL or Klipsch. They may not have the deepest bass but the 'slam' isn't in the deep bit.

'Dynamics' seems to mean a lot of different things to different people. Are you meaning dynamic range? Or 'dynamics' as in the system can go from quiet to all-out very quickly and effortlessly? Or something else?

[Jimbo]

Large speakers with plenty of amplification which can control and drive them.

[fatmarley]

Think of your classic JBL or Klipsch. They may not have the deepest bass but the 'slam' isn't in the deep bit.


My current speakers (Efficient 10" 2-way with horn loaded compression driver) have an f3 (-3db) point of 55hz and when I watch Harry potter movies with my son, the sound Is very powerful and dynamic. It sounds very similar to our local cinema but without hurting your ears.

You'd think there was a hidden subwoofer when watching the Whomping Willow scene - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJgsaWD3prs - Glass breaking Is also very powerful, but you'd never guess If you only listened to music.

[Infinitely Baffled]

... Glass breaking Is also very powerful, but you'd never guess If you only listened to music.
And that is as it should be. Acoustically produced music doesn't sound like film sound effects. I am inclined to think that our quest for "seismic" bass, visceral "slam" and exaggeratedly defined detail and soundstaging is the wrong way to go in assembling a music replay system. Live music does not, for the most part, sound like that. There appears to be a growing preference among audiophiles to listen to music as if it were a collection of sound effects. That's OK of course if you listen to nothing but electronica. Otherwise, it's not good.
IB

[Macca]

And that is as it should be. Acoustically produced music doesn't sound like film sound effects. I am inclined to think that our quest for "seismic" bass, visceral "slam" and exaggeratedly defined detail and soundstaging is the wrong way to go in assembling a music replay system. Live music does not, for the most part, sound like that.
IB

But if "seismic" bass, visceral "slam" and exaggeratedly defined detail and soundstaging' is on the recording you want the system to be able to do it properly. Reproducing (well) a good recording of a bloke strumming a lute is easy by comparison.

[Infinitely Baffled]

But if "seismic" bass, visceral "slam" and exaggeratedly defined detail and soundstaging' is on the recording you want the system to be able to do it properly. Reproducing (well) a good recording of a bloke strumming a lute is easy by comparison.

True ... but I suppose my point is that you don't really get those kind of sounds in music other than electronica, whereas I have the distinct feeling that many in the audiophile community aspire to making all music sound like that. It's the auditory equivalent to Photoshopping an image created by Rembrandt into a cartoon. Like I said, it's fine if the music in question actually sounds like that in the first place.
IB

[Macca]

True ... but I suppose my point is that you don't really get those kind of sounds in music other than electronica, whereas I have the distinct feeling that many in the audiophile community aspire to making all music sound like that. It's the auditory equivalent to Photoshopping an image created by Rembrandt into a cartoon. Like I said, it's fine if the music in question actually sounds like that in the first place.
IB

These are people you know then? Or are you talking about the trend towards DSP and lots of subwoofers?

[struth]

Soundtracks do. The natural noises on the attenborough stuff is full of it

[Infinitely Baffled]

These are people you know then?

No, not people I know (that would be a very limited sample, I can assure you!) It's the sense I pick up from many of the posts both on this forum and others. Many folk are preoccupied with making their hi-fi.s sound larger-than-life. Perhaps it's just a reflection of their musical taste ie. they have a preference for a style of music that benefits from a slightly cartoon-ized presentation. Many of the discussions and questions on here are about how to get ever more emphatic sounds out of the system. Nobody wants a system that just sounds musical and "disappears" any more.

Oh god! Sounds like a need a new pipe and pair of slippers, doesn't it?
IB

[Infinitely Baffled]

Soundtracks do. The natural noises on the attenborough stuff is full of it

My point exactly!
Much music is not intended to sound like a film soundtrack or like Attenborough's highly-processed sounds of insects munching each other, yet I believe we are training ourselves to expect that kind of effect when listening to music on our hi-fis.
(OK, somebody is going to mention organ toccatas by Bach and Buxtehude; I'll give you that one).
IB

[Macca]

My point exactly!
Much music is not intended to sound like a film soundtrack or like Attenborough's highly-processed sounds of insects munching each other, yet I believe we are training ourselves to expect that kind of effect when listening to music on our hi-fis.
(OK, somebody is going to mention organ toccatas by Bach and Buxtehude; I'll give you that one).
IB

I think I understand what you mean now. People get confused as to what is on the recording and what the system is doing to the sound. Action film soundtracks are heavily EQ'd for impact, you wouldn't want 'Kind Of Blue' To sound like that. But maybe some do.

[agk]

How long is a piece of string?

[montesquieu]

A lot depends on the venue as well as the music. A string quartet or a Lieder recital in a smallish room can make your ears ring in the ff passages, five foot from a single cellist giving it welly can be downright unpleasant.

The organist seldom hears how loud he's playing, it's damned loud inside if you are trying to tune the thing but often you don't get the full effect from the keyboard, you need to be down in the body of the kirk.

OTOH on a rare trip to the Proms at the Albert Hall I was seriously hacked off that from where I was sitting I could barely hear the orchestra churning out a Bruckner symphony. What a god awful barn that is.

I kind of agree though on artificially engineered slam being a bit cartoonish, there are cartridges and phono stages that do that, as well as (mainly sold state) amps and speakers. It's the opposite of musical and indeed does remind me of the hyperventilated synthetic muzak that passes for film scores much of the time these days.

(He says reaching for pipe, slippers and that old cardigan with the elbow patches. I was shouting at the phone today holding for the broadband people - just what marketing sadist thinks it's OK to inflict gangsta rap on people queuing to talk to a human?)

[Pigmy Pony]

When I see a live band in a small venue or pub, I don't think the 'slam' I hear from the drums, especially kick drums, sound cartoonish, I just think "why can't my stereo be more like that?"

Does that kind of sound even exist on records, or would it cause the stylus to jump out of the groove? I know this makes me sound a bit mental, but I'm serious, is it possible?

[Pharos]

It is apparent to me, and fairly accepted, that we can develop a false sense of what sound should be like from our systems.

I also think that it has become, rather like the loudness war, a competitive trait by producers to compete with violating and shocking sounds which attract attention. This was apparent to me in '97 at the Penta show where Mars Attacks was being blasted out, and sounded, well, really vulgar.

We are I'm afraid in an age in which loud, effusive, aggressive and ultimately vulgar, are reigning, because they arouse the internal threat instinct and attract attention. The days of subtlety, finesse and refinement seem to be over.

This principle has been being applied to food as well, more and more sources included which sere the senses.

But I agree that the system should reproduce what the recording has on it, and not add anything.

[montesquieu]

When I see a live band in a small venue or pub, I don't think the 'slam' I hear from the drums, especially kick drums, sound cartoonish, I just think "why can't my stereo be more like that?"

Does that kind of sound even exist on records, or would it cause the stylus to jump out of the groove? I know this makes me sound a bit mental, but I'm serious, is it possible?

When I hear a live band I usually think thanks Christ my system doesn't sound like that, what a crap PA the vocals are shit I can't make the words out, the bass is causing the bottles on the bar to rattle and the drummer is half a beat ahead of the bass player.

Seriously though the sound levels involved in performing in venues are not what you'd want in your living room, domestic hifi is not designed either to reproduce that absolute level or the dynamic ranges involved (and neither are recordings produced with the intention of reproducing them).

I saw a horn system at the Munich High-End event playing dark side of the moon for 100 people. Interesting in its own way but utterly pointless, all they were listening to in my mind was a glorified and ludicrously expensive PA system.

And I'm not sure I agree that high-efficiency speakers are necessarily the way to go to attempt to replicate live sound levels, high-eff is often achieved by lightweight paper cones and fast suspension which behave oddly when pushed to extremes. PA systems use much tougher cone material (plastics) and equally tough surrounds, which need masses of higher power, cheaper amplification (000s or even 0000s of watts of Class B or latterly Class D to drive them - hence indistinct vocals etc, though some of that can also be down to the acoustic.

High-eff uses its efficiency best in my view to satisfyingly reproduce dynamic peaks at normal listening levels using lower power amplification capable of reproducing fine subtleties.

To best replicate a gig you'd be better off with a pair of old Linn 'Briks and many watts of SS AB, subtlety is not where it's at.

[fatmarley]

When I see a live band in a small venue or pub, I don't think the 'slam' I hear from the drums, especially kick drums, sound cartoonish, I just think "why can't my stereo be more like that?"

Does that kind of sound even exist on records, or would it cause the stylus to jump out of the groove? I know this makes me sound a bit mental, but I'm serious, is it possible?

Yes It Is, but you need to be able to move a lot of air and I think the best way to do that, Is with large drivers. In theory you should be able to have the same effect with multiple small driver but I haven't tried It.

What I should have added to my post earlier Is that I have some 8" 2-way speakers here that are a sealed design and the bass rolls off at a much more shallow rate than my 10" ported speakers. Basically, on paper they should produce about the same amount of 'punch' but quite a bit more depth. They do have more depth but don't have the same raw Impact that the bigger drivers do. Turn the volume up and you can feel the bass hit you with the larger drivers.

[Yomanze]

Critical damping of the speakers is an essential component of tight 'slam' and 'dynamics'. Without it, the sound can be one-note, plodding, boomy etc.

Also, whilst you might gain a bit more 'transparency' with a passive preamp, you lose slam & dynamics compared to an active.

The speaker / amp interface is important i.e. can the amp dump enough current into the speakers during musical peaks.

Some analogue sources may lack slam & dynamics too, much less of an issue with digital.

[bumpy]

Also, whilst you might gain a bit more 'transparency' with a passive preamp, you lose slam & dynamics compared to an active.


That's a bit of a sweeping statement. What evidence is there for loss of slam and dynamics with a good passive preamp?

[montesquieu]

That's a bit of a sweeping statement. What evidence is there for loss of slam and dynamics with a good passive preamp?

Purely subjective I would assume but that is also my experience.

[Macca]

That's a bit of a sweeping statement. What evidence is there for loss of slam and dynamics with a good passive preamp?

None. They are completely un-related.

[Yomanze]

Purely subjective I would assume but that is also my experience.

Yes, my subjective experiences (too). Have used some very fine passives and actives. For my amps and system I prefer actives. Slam and dynamics are two particularly interesting traits to compare between the two IMHO.

[struth]

None. They are completely un-related.

again we come down to one man's slam and dynamics over anothers'. guessing different folk have different definitions

[Macca]

again we come down to one man's slam and dynamics over anothers'. guessing different folk have different definitions

I guess. I have hooked my passive up to a Krell and some Akai speakers with 15 inch bass drivers and the slam almost had me over the back of the chair. With some recordings it feels like you are being pummelled, it is actually too much.

[Haselsh1]

Back in the late nineties I used a pair of Castle Harlech speakers with a 300B PP power amp. Around 2000 I changed to a studio power amp with around 300 Watts per channel and some hefty current delivery. The difference in bass grip and control was absolutely mind blowing. To me, that kind of bass grip and control is all about the amplifier.

[Yomanze]

For me slam is also about phase / time domain accuracy. If the bass bits hit you with a time delay and out of phase the whole tune isn’t going to “slam” together. This is mainly a speaker issue... you want all the bits to hit your ears at the same time.

[montesquieu]

For me slam is also about phase accuracy. If the bass bits hit you with a time delay and out of phase the whole tune isn’t going to “slam” together. This is mainly a speaker issue...




Speaker + Amp (because it's always the two together). Big Tannoys have large area and perfect phase (due to the dual concentric alignment of drivers) I don't call it slam though it's more about bodily impact of the music. The word slam to me conjures up the wrong thing - inappropriate pyrotechnics.

[bumpy]

Back in the late nineties I used a pair of Castle Harlech speakers with a 300B PP power amp. Around 2000 I changed to a studio power amp with around 300 Watts per channel and some hefty current delivery. The difference in bass grip and control was absolutely mind blowing. To me, that kind of bass grip and control is all about the amplifier.

I'm not surprised as I believe those speakers have an efficiency of just 88dB. Put that 300B pp with 100db speakers and you could just as well be writing "its all about the speakers."

[Haselsh1]

I'm not surprised as I believe those speakers have an efficiency of just 88dB. Put that 300B pp with 100db speakers and you could just as well be writing "its all about the speakers."

You could be correct there. That amplifier was never a good match with the Castle's and as soon as I connected up some real current and power the damn things changed massively however I have also used various amplifiers with Audio Note AZ-2's and the results were very different so maybe my first comment was just bollocks. It was though my own personal experience of the things I have lived with over about forty years or so. I have always found that big gutsy power amps have a death like grip on the bass and an effortless power to the bass whereas no valve amplifier I have ever owned has had anything like similar. From my own experience I have always found that above say 150 Watts, the sound in the bass is bloody wonderful.

[montesquieu]

I'm not surprised as I believe those speakers have an efficiency of just 88dB. Put that 300B pp with 100db speakers and you could just as well be writing "its all about the speakers."

Maybe but as I said last night a lot of high-efficiency speakers are about micro dynamics rather than absolute levels, and a lot of them (horns are the typical example) don't produce a good sound evenly across a large frequency sweep when driven hard.

[Haselsh1]

Maybe but as I said last night a lot of high-efficiency speakers are about micro dynamics rather than absolute levels, and a lot of them (horns are the typical example) don't produce a good sound evenly across a large frequency sweep when driven hard.

Well that would certainly back up my findings with Klipsch speakers. Bloody stunning with 300B Se amps but seriously not good with high power transistors.

[User211]

None. They are completely un-related.I have never heard an active pre as fast as my passive in my system.

I remember Wammers going on about passives and losing dynamics/slam years ago. I always wondered what the hell they were talking about.

So I agree. I have also found the fastest bass I have ever heard comes from my 211 monos. Even after using a number of amps rated at half Kilowatt into 4 Ohms or more.

My candidates for achieving great slam are very large surface area bass drivers capable of coming to a very sudden stop.

When you slam a door, that is essentially what is happening.

Therefore, I use speakers that look like doors:D

[User211]

To be fair, it seems reasonable that insensitive power amps probably don't respond well to a low output source and a passive.

That's the only thing I can think of that would cause the active is better at slam/dynamics syndrome.

Somebody may know better than I, though.

[User211]

And looking at the definition of slam on the web from multiple sources, slam is often defined by citing doors.

The faster a door is moving the greater the slam. Therefore, since loudspeaker drivers never meet a stop within normal use, you need very high force per unit area to achieve a sudden stop, preferably with a low mass per unit area cone.

So very high power neodymium or electromagnetic drivers implemented well should be pretty good at it. At least in the world of conventional drivers. Alnico isn't bad either.

[Haselsh1]

My candidates for achieving great slam are very large surface area bass drivers capable of coming to a very sudden stop.

When you slam a door, that is essentially what is happening.

Therefore, I use speakers that look like doors:D

I very definitely agree as I have said many times before on here. Big drivers can shovel loads of air and with a hugely gutsy amplifier are going to sound bloody awesome in the bass. The best I have ever heard like this were Cerwin Vega's powered by some bloody big monster amp. The bloody room sounded like a night club and although not my take on things, the bass was a massive amount of fun.

[User211]

Very rigid cabs / frames are also fundamental. Drivers mounted on front baffles that move/are thin are going to lose. Or so you would think.

I must stop posting on this subject. TBH it is all fairly obvious.

[Macca]

Very rigid cabs / frames are also fundamental. Drivers mounted on front baffles that move/are thin are going to lose. Or so you would think.

I must stop posting on this subject. TBH it is all fairly obvious.

And you were doing so well. But you forgot the microwave and the blender. Bad luck.

Yes it is about all those things to an extent. But really it's all about big bass drivers. :D

[VanDerGraaf]

We are I'm afraid in an age in which loud, effusive, aggressive and ultimately vulgar, are reigning, because they arouse the internal threat instinct and attract attention. The days of subtlety, finesse and refinement seem to be over.

This principle has been being applied to food as well, more and more sources included which sere the senses.

But I agree that the system should reproduce what the recording has on it, and not add anything.

I agree 100%. Natural scale isn't considered "normal" now, in so many fields. I'd add "instant gratification" to your list of modern motivators....

For me, the dream is scale and slam but at relatively low SPL, say 70ish dB at 1m. How do you achieve it, if at all? What is best- in my head for some unproven reason I'm imagining high sensitivity speakers with big drivers and a fairly flat low end frequency response. If anyone has some advice to give...

[montesquieu]

I agree 100%. Natural scale isn't considered "normal" now, in so many fields. I'd add "instant gratification" to your list of modern motivators....

For me, the dream is scale and slam but at relatively low SPL, say 70ish dB at 1m. How do you achieve it, if at all? What is best- in my head for some unproven reason I'm imagining high sensitivity speakers with big drivers and a fairly flat low end frequency response. If anyone has some advice to give...

Tannoys mate. Try and hear some :)

[Macca]

I agree 100%. Natural scale isn't considered "normal" now, in so many fields. I'd add "instant gratification" to your list of modern motivators....

For me, the dream is scale and slam but at relatively low SPL, say 70ish dB at 1m. How do you achieve it, if at all? What is best- in my head for some unproven reason I'm imagining high sensitivity speakers with big drivers and a fairly flat low end frequency response. If anyone has some advice to give...

pretty much what I would say. Except you want the FR tilted up a bit from the low bass to the mid-bass to allow for Fletcher-Munson. The 'House Curve'. And then you need to move air, quickly and effortlessly.

For me I don't see why, on paper at least, a system cannot do that and also deliver delicacy and musicality.

[Primalsea]

I wonder if a way of getting a large sense of scale is about moving air, but not just bass, mid bass and mid, hence why some speakers have multiple bass and mid drivers. However, I suspect that the price you pay for that is speaker efficiency, which is also something that helps with delivering a big sound. I guess there are a few ways to skin the cat, each with compromises.

[Macca]

Not really. The bigger you get and the more drivers you have, the more efficient you get. As long as you keep the drivers light.

[Bksabath]

Fun tread, same tought...
IMO big drivers Low frequency you do not listen to it whit ears they hit U on tummy

Big driver bas reflex = slow small drivers long throw= fast (EG gogle up Ophidian)
Small drivers no low frequency
Das drum sound like Pum Pum or better Tum Tum ?

Passive preamplifier should not sound like ... nothing... should just turn down volume Yes?


FiFI should be like close your eyes and musician is right there in your room playing for you.
Can my FiFI make noise of plastic ruler whack on table ? working on it ...

Do I like VO6 (Catalogue number) wall of sound first thing in the morning, that goes up to 11
Try this ATR013 LP

[Macca]

There's an American speaker I forget the name of but it is a four way and uses a 12 inch for the low bass and a 15 inch for the mid bass - on the grounds that you want the slam from the fifteen in the mid bass and the speedier twelve doing the bottom octaves, so you don't get too much overhang down there and have it slow the whole pace of the music down. That makes sense to me.

[walpurgis]

Big driver bas reflex = slow

Hardly. Have you not heard some big JBL's?

[Primalsea]

Not really. The bigger you get and the more drivers you have, the more efficient you get. As long as you keep the drivers light.

I that case something like this should do it

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4753/39602925811_74ae047542_z.jpg

[Bksabath]

Yes been I while (30+ years) and can't remember model at the same time I was moving around 68 Kw of electrovoice and tanoys :D
PS my post is just a collection of toughts I had while reading this tread I am not looking for conflict just brain farting on the fly
If they make tum tum sound instead of Pum pum they JBL are ok by me.
Old brain fart Mia Martini at the time wanted Ge be lee (JBL in Italian) PA toke us quite a while to find out WTF she was going on about.
Same toughts I keep for myself ( I wish my ex GF was as loud as 70 dB ( which is not loud at all) (got to measure the fridge and that is pretty much there IMO)
But if one like to do the mat (My mat is worse than my spelling BTW) 3dB increase is double the volume so 86dB speakers at 1W 16 dB difference got to divide 1 watt by 2 about 5 times :scratch:

[Infinitely Baffled]

IMO big drivers Low frequency you do not listen to it whit ears they hit U on tummy

I think this may be an example of what I meant when I said, upthread, that some appear to want to listen to music as if it were a collection of sound effects, rather than notes of varying duration and pitch. Of course, if the music you are listening to is in fact a collection of sound effects, then fine.
IB

[walpurgis]

Of course, if the music you are listening to is in fact a collection of sound effects, then fine.
IB

Surely those too should be reproduced as accurately as possible, otherwise they won't sound as intended.

[Bksabath]

I think this may be an example of what I meant when I said, upthread, that some appear to want to listen to music as if it were a collection of sound effects, rather than notes of varying duration and pitch. Of course, if the music you are listening to is in fact a collection of sound effects, then fine.
IB
Got same sound effects fo ya ATR013 (gogle this up honest)

[Bksabath]

Got same sound effects fo ya ATR013 (gogle this up honest)
https://www.discogs.com/Gregorio-Paniagua-La-Folia-De-La-Spagna/release/3222162

[Infinitely Baffled]

Surely those too should be reproduced as accurately as possible, otherwise they won't sound as intended.

Absolutely.
IB

[Bksabath]

Surely those too should be reproduced as accurately as possible, otherwise they won't sound as intended.

Could my FiFI make sound like live plastic ruler whack on table ?

[Infinitely Baffled]

https://www.discogs.com/Gregorio-Paniagua-La-Folia-De-La-Spagna/release/3222162

That looks really interesting!
Worth a punt?
IB

[Bksabath]

You bet
There are same sound files on that page (quality no so good) and is on Spotify
But the ART013LP is probably the best record I have now
sound effects are real good dig in there and there is a whip that will startle you and what I believe a big V6 ? V8 going around for a spin
Be warned if your FiFI is not up to it one may decide to sell the children's in order to make same improvements.

[Infinitely Baffled]

Absolutely.
IB

Sorry. I realise this is an unhelpful reply, and doesn't really seem to fit with the point I am making. I think that is because it's all a bit paradoxical: if you want to listen to music that sounds unnatural, or has unnatural elements in it, then yes of course you need a system that is capable of reproducing all that unnatural-ness in the recording. But there is a sort of thrill that you get when you experience this kind of sound and I don't think it is necessarily to do with musical enjoyment. I think it is what Pharos, upthread, referred to as "vulgar" and Vandergraf called "instant gratification". I think they are right. So the problem comes when the listener starts to get addicted to those unnatural sounds and expects and wants to hear everything sounding like it is on steroids - because that "hi-fi" sound is so seducing. He (or she) is going to want to build a system to suit - all slam and tinkling detail and gut wobbling LF. That's fine - it's a free country and it's no skin off my nose. But I just can't help thinking that it's a bit of a corruption of the pursuit of high fidelity musical enjoyment.

I'll get me coat ...
IB

[Macca]

I think any presentation, so long as it is not full of distortion, is valid. We all have our idea of what a hi-fi system should sound like, and we pursue it. Those ideas seem to vary quite widely between individuals. I mean, I find electrostatics and panels interesting to listen to, but I don't think I could live with them. But some will argue they are the closest we can get to 'accurate' speakers.

[Haselsh1]

As I have said here many times before, I am not interested in the 'Closest Approach' thing I am interested in a sound system that stimulates my emotions and sounds the way I expect it to sound. So with that in mind my system should reproduce my choice of music my way and my music includes quite a decent slice of sound effects as well as notated music. One example is the album by Roger Waters known as 'Amused To Death' which is well known for its sound effects and Q Sound effects. If that dog bark doesn't come ninety degrees next to your right ear your system is just not good enough. I honestly don't know what the final spec is on my listening experience but it certainly involves stereo imaging at number one with low bass control at number two.

[Bksabath]

I think any presentation, so long as it is not full of distortion, is valid. We all have our idea of what a hi-fi system should sound like, and we pursue it. Those ideas seem to vary quite widely between individuals. I mean, I find electrostatics and panels interesting to listen to, but I don't think I could live with them. But some will argue they are the closest we can get to 'accurate' speakers.

Funny timing
I was at Dough Brady to listen to Maggies 1.7 and 3.7 last Friday (yes I know they are not real electrostatic) and I am going to get the 1.7 on loan
I did not buy there and then as I need to ear them in my room. I did not buy the 3.7 either as it is big money right now but I am tempted, there are a few things that I need doing whit FiFI to justify such purchase starting whit room acoustic.
And by the way if you live near by Doug Brady they have the Luxman phono stage on demo, to many really expensive knobs for my taste, but I am going to get it, one of those days, It is certainly worth a listen.

Any way more about the maggies same time soon.

[Bksabath]

As I have said here many times before, I am not interested in the 'Closest Approach' thing I am interested in a sound system that stimulates my emotions and sounds the way I expect it to sound. So with that in mind my system should reproduce my choice of music my way and my music includes quite a decent slice of sound effects as well as notated music. One example is the album by Roger Waters known as 'Amused To Death' which is well known for its sound effects and Q Sound effects. If that dog bark doesn't come ninety degrees next to your right ear your system is just not good enough. I honestly don't know what the final spec is on my listening experience but it certainly involves stereo imaging at number one with low bass control at number two.

Agree whit you and thanks for the reminding me of that album the first 30 seconds is good example of 70 dB music and yes that dog is just outside my front door
I have to try and see what neigbours dog think about it That one dog is on my back door BTW

[Light Dependant Resistor]

As I have said here many times before, I am not interested in the 'Closest Approach' thing I am interested in a sound system that stimulates my emotions and sounds the way I expect it to sound. So with that in mind my system should reproduce my choice of music my way and my music includes quite a decent slice of sound effects as well as notated music. One example is the album by Roger Waters known as 'Amused To Death' which is well known for its sound effects and Q Sound effects. If that dog bark doesn't come ninety degrees next to your right ear your system is just not good enough. I honestly don't know what the final spec is on my listening experience but it certainly involves stereo imaging at number one with low bass control at number two.

I am listening presently to audio that does all of that ( and more ) Marco will let you know all about it, as soon as
I pull my finger out and get a unit to him. ( i hear you Marco ! ) Other gear I am using is 2x Quad 306 ( one amp per channel ) and JR149 speakers


Cheers / Chris