Denon 103SA

[karma67]

Keeping with my theme of a new cartridge every 2 months :lol: i've been reading up about the classic denon 103 cartridge,it has caught my interest lately and after reading countless threads i thought id give one a try.
so today arrived a brand new and still sealed denon 103 sa.

https://s26.postimg.org/4hsb7n5g9/IMG_0001.jpg

i carefully cut the tape to reveal this,a lovely quality wooden box.

https://s26.postimg.org/hlxvkccxl/IMG_0003.jpg

using my excited fingers i opened up to have a peek inside :)

https://s26.postimg.org/vfm89ekyh/IMG_0004.jpg

well based on presentation alone it looks lovely,im hoping the denon sound is for me,ive been having a tough time lately on the analogue front so fingers crossed i'll be at peace for a while with this one!
ive bought a lentek head amp to go with it which should be here early next week,in the meantime i will try it using the nakamichi's mc stage.
more to come.........

[Jimbo]

This cartridge should be interesting with a nude spherical stylus and could be a nicely detailed version of the 103. I don't think it will be as tricky to set up as the 2M?

Enjoy!:cool:

[Bigman80]

Not a Shibata is it?

Thought it was conical??

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[Bigman80]

Spherical!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180106/a2679caea49455c6ce59916fe74fa56a.jpg

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[Jimbo]

Nope, it is the 103S that has the Shibata stylus.

[karma67]

This cartridge should be interesting with a nude spherical stylus and could be a nicely detailed version of the 103. I don't think it will be as tricky to set up as the 2M?

Enjoy!:cool:

its very easy to set up jimbo,i like that after the 2m black and decca!
im not rushing in with any form of review yet as its not run in and i have a head amp coming,but so far its very nice,i get the 'musical' vibe.

here's what the denon spec sheet says,slightly different than above.

https://s26.postimg.org/jclhzkrk9/IMG_0005.jpg

[Jimbo]

I am surprised there were so many variants of the 103 out there, yours looks particularly nice Jamie. Very nicely presented and superb colour! I see it has quite a low output so a headamp maybe best way to go although the right SUT can be configured to work well. The Lentek gets thoroughly recommended on here so should be a good start.

I look forward to your reviews later, I am sure it needs to run in for a few hours yet!:)

[Bigman80]

Nope, it is the 103S that has the Shibata stylus.Ah! Now I'd try a 103s in that case.

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[RobbieGong]

Hope you really enjoy it Jamie and looking forward to what you think of it.

I do like the way Denon and some others I'm sure, present the cartridge in a really nice case or box.

A nice touch that represents quality and kind of adds to the experience in my opinion :)

[Barry]

Ah! Now I'd try a 103s in that case.

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I'd much rather have a DL103D with the elliptical stylus.

[Bigman80]

I'd much rather have a DL103D with the elliptical stylus.Why? Having not heard either it's just for interest.

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[Barry]

Why? Having not heard either it's just for interest.

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I don't like the Shibata stylus profile, and when Practical Hi-Fi did a review they disliked the 103S and preferred the 103D.

[montesquieu]

I don't like the Shibata stylus profile, and when Practical Hi-Fi did a review they disliked the 103S and preferred the 103D.

Bit sweeping that no? - unless you are talking about just the 103S, there's lot more to a stylus assembly than a cantilever and a tip and overall implementation matters enormously and the SA may not be exactly the same beast.

Beyond that, I've heard a few cartridges sound superb with the Shibata stylus profile (not least the Miyajima Shilabe and of course the Miyajima Madake I'm running at the moment. Needs careful setting up but all cartridges do especially at this level.

I bought a 103SA once but it arrived with the stylus guard loose and the tip broken off so I didn't get to hear it :(

[karma67]

well i can tell you hand on heart,im not missing a fine line or shibata tip right now with this cartridge oli.

[Barry]

Bit sweeping that no? - unless you are talking about just the 103S, there's lot more to a stylus assembly than a cantilever and a tip and overall implementation matters enormously and the SA may not be exactly the same beast.

Beyond that, I've heard a few cartridges sound superb with the Shibata stylus profile (not least the Miyajima Shilabe and of course the Miyajima Madake I'm running at the moment. Needs careful setting up but all cartridges do especially at this level.

I bought a 103SA once but it arrived with the stylus guard loose and the tip broken off so I didn't get to hear it :(

The SA has a spherical tip.

The Shibata stylus profile was designed for the replay of quadriphonic records (specifically CD-4) and whilst I have only heard one cartridge fitted with it, and so ought not to generalise, I didn't like what I heard: the treble was far too 'hot' and dominant. I much prefer 'fine line' or elliptical stylii and have several moving-coil cartridges fitted with them.

[walpurgis]

Yes. JVC's 'CD-4 Discrete' if I recall was one system (were there other record ones?). The fine Shibata stylus edge being needed to read the carrier signal modulations for quadrophonic rear infomation as well as the front stereo signal. I remember quad purposed Shibata stylus cartridges being slated for being too ruthless at the top end when playing regular steroe records.

[montesquieu]

The SA has a spherical tip.

The Shibata stylus profile was designed for the replay of quadriphonic records (specifically CD-4) and whilst I have only heard one cartridge fitted with it, and so ought not to generalise, I didn't like what I heard: the treble was far too 'hot' and dominant. I much prefer 'fine line' or elliptical stylii and have several moving-coil cartridges fitted with them.

Plenty of reasons a cartridge can have hot treble other than the stylus profile.

[karma67]

The SA has a spherical tip.

The Shibata stylus profile was designed for the replay of quadriphonic records (specifically CD-4) and whilst I have only heard one cartridge fitted with it, and so ought not to generalise, I didn't like what I heard: the treble was far too 'hot' and dominant. I much prefer 'fine line' or elliptical stylii and have several moving-coil cartridges fitted with them.

well im certainly not sitting here thinking wheres all the detail gone? so what gives? all i can think of right now is the profile of the diamond is not the be all and end all.

[montesquieu]

well im certainly not sitting here thinking wheres all the detail gone? so what gives? all i can think of right now is the profile of the diamond is not the be all and end all.

Sphericals can sound fantastic, I just bought a spherical MC myself (Ortofon SPU #1S). And you are right there is far more to overall performance than the stylus profile.

[walpurgis]

The DL-103R does not lack detail and that also has a conical tip. Perhaps the same one.

[karma67]

im listening to the SA using the alphason,the zeta is boxed up to be re wired and checked over by J7.
at 11g the alphason isn't the best arm to use it on but with the heavier counter weight and 6g on the headshell it sounding might fine.

[Bigman80]

well im certainly not sitting here thinking wheres all the detail gone? so what gives? all i can think of right now is the profile of the diamond is not the be all and end all.You might be right there mate. Couldn't here much difference in detail between the Decca gold & Blue

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[Barry]

Yes. JVC's 'CD-4 Discrete' if I recall was one system (were there other record ones?). The fine Shibata stylus edge being needed to read the carrier signal modulations for quadrophonic rear infomation as well as the front stereo signal. I remember quad purposed Shibata stylus cartridges being slated for being too ruthless at the top end when playing regular steroe records.

It was precisely the JVC X-1 cartridge I had in mind. Whilst I shouldn't let it prejudice my choice of stylus profile, based on my experience with the X-1, I would need to be convinced the "ruthless top end" is not down to the Shibata profile. I read similar comments in connection with the Denon 103S, also fitted with a Shibata stylus.

I have at least five cartridges fitted with a spherical tipped stylus. All are quite detailed, and depending on vintage, most have a reasonably clean top end. The only advantage of using an elliptical or fine line stylus is the reduction of 'end of side distortion'.

[scotty38]

Whether it sounds good or not there's no doubting it's a fine looking thing!

[helma]

From the specs (14 ohms vs 40 ohms coil impedance) it looks like it's based on the 103R type of generator (which I *think* debuted in the 80s with DL-103LC or such)? There's been a ridiculous amount of "special" 103 versions and limited editions over the years, right up to models like 103M which seem to have very little to do with the original (though by all accounts an excellent cartridge), besides perhaps the basic magnetic design I suppose.

Btw. DL-103S & DL-103D were in production the same time and by the looks of it were closely related models, with the D being a bit more expensive. Denon isn't very forth coming about actual tip profiles, but seems to refer to most everything by "special elliptical" which I've always taken to perhaps possibly mean some kind of line-contact type of thing. It seems the main difference between 103S and 103D was the latter having slightly higher compliance, better channel separation and a tip with tinier shank dimensions. But it seems likely the actual tip profile was the same, or if one was elliptical and one was line-contact, then probably 103D would be the line-contact since it was the more expensive one.

Anyway congrats on the new cart, the 103SA certainly looks very nice and like most special editions it seems like the rebodying was already done at the factory ;) Would be interesting to hear how it compares to stock 103 and 103R if you ever get to hear them in the same system.

[karma67]

another part of the puzzle has arrived :)
https://s26.postimg.org/c3obn3pqx/IMG_0012_1.jpg

[walpurgis]

Looks a bit like one of my old ones. Most came with DIN connections which I converted to RCA phono.

[Bigman80]

Looks tidy!

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[karma67]

well its a 'dip my toe' before i try something more expensive,at £60 it was worth a punt and it seems to have done the trick,it has brought the volume up from the nakamichis mc stage,hard to say its better right now,its certainly not worse so thats positive.
now the question is how much better is it once recapped and modded?

[Bigman80]

well its a 'dip my toe' before i try something more expensive,at £60 it was worth a punt and it seems to have done the trick,it has brought the volume up from the nakamichis mc stage,hard to say its better right now,its certainly not worse so thats positive.
now the question is how much better is it once recapped and modded?Lol, well you'll have to find out.

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[karma67]

there's a big thread on the modding here, http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?8431-Nick-G-modified-Lentek-Head-Amp

[Bigman80]

How are you getting on with the Denon, Jamie?

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[karma67]

im enjoy it a lot mate,i dont miss the decca at all,it just wasn't for my arms. this 103 is so engaging its just very nice to be listening to my records and not analyzing every cymbal strike etc.
its is also so very easy to set up,the poor old alphason is coping it well,all be it with 6g extra on the headhell lol.
the zeta is with j7 getting re wired so will suit the 103 better.

[karma67]

interestingly the little lentek head amps not bad,the mc stage in the nakamichi pre at 100ohms loading makes the denon sound a bit toppy,steel guitar strings and violins tend to sound a bit painfull if you know what i mean,whilst the lentek looses out in clarity its better to listen to blue grass type music with it.

[Bigman80]

There is always a compromise somewhere mate. Glad you're enjoying it!

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[Marco]

well its a 'dip my toe' before i try something more expensive,at £60 it was worth a punt and it seems to have done the trick,it has brought the volume up from the nakamichis mc stage,hard to say its better right now,its certainly not worse so thats positive.
now the question is how much better is it once recapped and modded?

It's all coming together nicely, Jamie :)

One tip with the Lentek... For whatever reason, it sounds best used with a (brand new) Duracell battery. Anything else I've tried is inferior, so make sure that's what you're using and that it's not going flat. Unfortunately, Lenteks eat batteries, especially when driven hard.

It's also all to easy to leave the unit switched on, after listening to music, which again drains the battery, as does overuse of the battery testing switch! And sound quality will always be compromised when the unit is used with anything else but a healthy battery.

Enjoy :cool:

Marco.

[Infinitely Baffled]

well its a 'dip my toe' before i try something more expensive ...

If you are really keen on taking MC use further and want to improve the head-amp part of the equation, I would talk to Jez Arkless if I were you. He built me a wonderful mains-powered unit that I couldn't be happier with - silent as the grave and terrifically engaging to listen to. I think he does a few types, including battery powered, rechargeable if you want, and mains. All different price levels. Worth a thought.
IB

[karma67]

If you are really keen on taking MC use further and want to improve the head-amp part of the equation, I would talk to Jez Arkless if I were you. He built me a wonderful mains-powered unit that I couldn't be happier with - silent as the grave and terrifically engaging to listen to. I think he does a few types, including battery powered, rechargeable if you want, and mains. All different price levels. Worth a thought.

IB

Thanks but no thanks

[Jimbo]

What are you thoughts on the Denon 103SA Jamie? Is it a long term keeper?:) I expect you have to get your head amp sorted before you know for sure!

[karma67]

hi jimbo,
im enjoying it very much,also the little lentek head amp is great (only down side is the bloody battery) .
i seem to be very contented at the moment as each piece of the 'getting the denon to sing' puzzle falls into place.

as ive said previously my zeta is being checked over and re wired at J7's, whilst this is being done ive bought some 3 and 4 mm flat brass to make some head shell weights if needed, the zeta counter weight is on its way to speedy steve to have some bronze plates made to balance out the extra head shell weight.
im trying to cover all bases so i can get cracking when the tone arm comes back,soon i hope!

[Marco]

Nice one, Jamie. Glad the advice I've given you so far seems to be paying off :)

What downsides have you been having with the battery - did you use a Duracell, like I said? The fact that the Lentek is battery operated, btw, is one of the reasons why it sounds good! ;)

Marco.

[karma67]

Nice one, Jamie. Glad the advice I've given you so far seems to be paying off :)

What downsides have you been having with the battery - did you use a Duracell, like I said? The fact that the Lentek is battery operated, btw, is one of the reasons why it sounds good! ;)

Marco.
oh yes,keep it coming please :)

re the downside, its only the fact that from what ive read the performance drops off after 2 hrs use,ive yet to hear this by the way,the tip you mentioned about using Duracell batterys is spot on,im sure i had a bit of grain to the top end,this has gone using a duracell.
what is the general view on upgrading the caps in the lentek?,ive asked nick to do the work which he's happy to do.

[paulf-2007]

oh yes,keep it coming please :)

re the downside, its only the fact that from what ive read the performance drops off after 2 hrs use,ive yet to hear this by the way,the tip you mentioned about using Duracell batterys is spot on,im sure i had a bit of grain to the top end,this has gone using a duracell.
what is the general view on upgrading the caps in the lentek?,ive asked nick to do the work which he's happy to do.could you use ultimate lithium, they last much longer.

[Marco]

oh yes,keep it coming please :)

re the downside, its only the fact that from what ive read the performance drops off after 2 hrs use,ive yet to hear this by the way,the tip you mentioned about using Duracell batterys is spot on,im sure i had a bit of grain to the top end,this has gone using a duracell.
what is the general view on upgrading the caps in the lentek?,ive asked nick to do the work which he's happy to do.

Yeah, no idea why Duracells 'sound' better in the Lentek, but they just do.

In terms of modding it and changing the caps, I'd be wary of also 'modding out' its fun-factor (the dynamic alacrity it seems to imbue on the music, as that's what I found a bit when Nick done mine. Not his fault at all, as he was unfamiliar with the unit and doing it pretty much on instinct, the way he thought would be best, based on his experience of electronic components.

Don't get me wrong, many things about the Lentek's presentation improved, such as refinement and finesse at the top end, and it had a smoother sound overall too, making the stock item sound rather 'rushed' and 'uncouth' - *but* some of its dynamic attack and musical verve was also lost along with it [some might call it PRaT]....I'm unsure what was responsible for that (perhaps the blue Tants being removed), but I suspect it was one of such cap changes, which upset the 'sonic synergy' a little.

This would make me want to do one cap change at a time next time, if modding another Lentek, and listening for the effect (holding onto what was taken out, just in case it was needed again), and making sure that I liked the difference it made before proceeding further - and stopping once I considered that the sound was right, rather than simply ripping out everything in one go, which superficially seemed as if it should be replaced, when perhaps some of it was necessary for the unit to retain its 'magic' (fun factor).

That's why, with my current Lentek, I've not gone any further yet than replacing the input sockets (the originals on mine were shocking) with solid-copper varieties, together with the output cables and RCA plugs, all of which on mine were really crap (simply showing their age), which resulted in a significant all-round improvement. The thinking was to allow myself to hear exactly what the existing circuit was doing before beginning to alter that - and the old wires and sockets in that respect were acting as a major bottleneck.

It sounds great, but no doubt that some judicious cap and/or resistor changes would reap similar benefits, so it's just a matter of getting round to doing that. Hi-fi has taken a bit of a back seat for me in the last 10 months or so, as I've had other priorities with various renovations at home taking place and my room being temporarily used to house a load of kitchen stuff, which has prevented me from using it, and as such I've been listening to music on my downstairs system.

That's all due to change though, very shortly! :)

Anyway, hope what I've said helps. Just be careful when you're modding the Lentek and take your time doing it, listening as you go along. One other tip, which I found improved matters sonically, if not visually, is removing the heavy metal outer casing, which is ferrous, leaving the main unit, which is also housed in a metal case, but there's nothing you can do about that for now, and also removing the top plate of the inner case, covering the battery, which is metal, then using the unit 'nuded' that way.

Basically, the less metal surrounding the circuit, the better, as the magnetic effect it produces is sonically detrimental, so removing as much of it as possible (as outlined) I found improved the sound. The ultimate way to address this issue would be to build the circuit into a new non-ferrous case, which is what I may do with mine, but that's for another day!

Keep us posted how you get on - oh and make sure you're tracking your 103SA at 2.65g (with 2.5g anti-skate), as that's where the sweet spot is in most set-ups :cool:

Marco.

[walpurgis]

I modded one of my Lentek's to work with an external DC power supply. That seemed an improvement. Don't ask me what the PSU was, I can't remember. It was on one of a batch of Lentek's I bought NOS donkeys years ago.

[Marco]

Interesting, Geoff. However, for me, keeping the unit free from mains-borne noise/interference is the way to go (I really do think that's key to its sound), which is why I'd continue persevering with battery power.

Perhaps the way forward is to work out how to use it with a bigger battery? :)

Marco.

[walpurgis]

Perhaps the way forward is to work out how to use it with a bigger battery? :)

Marco.

Yes. That is definitely a superior way to go. Compact lead acid gel batteries are not expensive, but finding 9v items may not be straightforward. I suppose NIMH batteries could be a possibilty, not looked into that. You'd need a suitable charger too. An SMPS would do it.

You can buy 'mirror' connectors to fit the battery clip on the Lentek.

[337alant]

I built a little MM phono based on a Bugle 2 Chinese copy board.
I had the Lentek along side it and it sounded good
I then put the lentek inside the MM phono box and used a lithium battery to power it and it sounded better however there was a downside there was a little mains hum due to the proximity of the mains cable and transformer.
I then tried powering everything from external batteries and that certainly sounded better all background noise gone, but again the battery's were always needing charging and became a pain. That's when I built my Paradise phone so I put this to one side for a while.
Reading marcos thread about the mods that Nick did to his Lentek got me curious again so I modified a friends lentek similar to Nicks mods only using Elna Silmic 2 caps and I compared it to my standard one with the tants
The modified one sounds smoother and sweeter as Marco stated but overall I still preferred this as the standard version does have an edge to the sound that can be fatiguing in the long term and I would agree this is the classic solid tantalum effect.
I then modified my own the same as steve's and I'm happy with it great little head amp this Lentek, Ill have to try the Duracell battery, and maybe it can be enclosed in a Mu Metal case?.
Anyway sorry to side track your thread

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8265/8662767263_376a53f2c5_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ecuWUg)119 (https://flic.kr/p/ecuWUg) by Alan Towell (https://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/), on Flickr
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5458/9294345514_67d06f0104_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/faiX7s). (https://flic.kr/p/faiX7s) by Alan Towell (https://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/), on Flickr
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5681/30484942684_316930e4de_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/NrRio5)20161127_190556 (https://flic.kr/p/NrRio5) by Alan Towell (https://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

Alan







Alan

[Jimbo]

Always good to hear from you Alan. As another aside I heard another Kontrapunkt B, I know you use one, yesterday and it was very impressive. My casual impression was it was an even handed MC cartridge from top to bottom, great detail and easy dynamics.

Back on post, I may well pick up a Lentek myself as it will be useful for a little project I have in mind:eyebrows: Having had some experience with head amps I definitely think battery (Duracell) power is the way to go.

[337alant]

Hi Jim
Actually I keep flipping between the Kontrapunkt b and a Denon DL103R and like them both very much

Alan

[paulf-2007]

I don't know what you are paying for Duracell 9v batteries but on eBay there are lithium ion 9v batteries for sale and also rechargeable 4 at £19

[Jimbo]

Hi Jim
Actually I keep flipping between the Kontrapunkt b and a Denon DL103R and like them both very much

Alan

Funny the Denon DL103R has been on my radar, easily available and fairly cheap.

[walpurgis]

Funny the Denon DL103R has been on my radar, easily available and fairly cheap.

The DL-103R is not bad, but the Goldring Eroica LX is much more fun and more musical and there's not a huge difference in price. And it can be serviced in this country by the maker. I've owned them both.

[Jimbo]

The DL-103R is not bad, but the Goldring Eroica LX is much more fun and more musical and there's not a huge difference in price. And it can be serviced in this country by the maker. I've owned them both.

Is the Goldring a better compliance match to a low/medium mass tonearm than the Denon?

[Bigman80]

I've text you Jim

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[Marco]

Funny the Denon DL103R has been on my radar, easily available and fairly cheap.

Don't do it, mate. It's not the direction you want to go in. Trust me ;)

Marco.

[Jimbo]

Don't do it, mate. It's not the direction you want to go in. Trust me ;)

Marco.

My preference really at the moment is a DL S1, but will this work in a medium mass arm? I can add some mass to the head shell. I think Ali tait was correct in mentioning sometime back that the real area to nail with the S1 is the head amp and he got good results in a Mission 774 tonearm!

[Bigman80]

I have been told by two people that they sold their DL S1 and bought a AT-ART7 when they heard it. I'd love to be in the position to try both.

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[Floyddroid]

Keeping with my theme of a new cartridge every 2 months :lol: i've been reading up about the classic denon 103 cartridge,it has caught my interest lately and after reading countless threads i thought id give one a try.
so today arrived a brand new and still sealed denon 103 sa.

https://s26.postimg.org/4hsb7n5g9/IMG_0001.jpg

i carefully cut the tape to reveal this,a lovely quality wooden box.

https://s26.postimg.org/hlxvkccxl/IMG_0003.jpg

using my excited fingers i opened up to have a peek inside :)

https://s26.postimg.org/vfm89ekyh/IMG_0004.jpg

well based on presentation alone it looks lovely,im hoping the denon sound is for me,ive been having a tough time lately on the analogue front so fingers crossed i'll be at peace for a while with this one!
ive bought a lentek head amp to go with it which should be here early next week,in the meantime i will try it using the nakamichi's mc stage.
more to come.........

How much was it?

[oldius]

My preference really at the moment is a DL S1, but will this work in a medium mass arm? I can add some mass to the head shell. I think Ali tait was correct in mentioning sometime back that the real area to nail with the S1 is the head amp and he got good results in a Mission 774 tonearm!The DL-S1 is a gorgeous cartridge with a beautifully refined treble. I've never understood those who insist on more boutique designs; this is a £2k cart from elsewhere easily!

It works in medium mass arms well. I had it in an RB1000 and an OL Conqueror with great success. I even had it in an N.A. Ace Anna.

I currently use an AT Art-1. I preferred it to the DL-S1 but I could live with either forever. I preferred the slightly more dynamic approach of the ART but many would prefer the slightly more polite DL-S1.

I have not heard the Art-7 .

[paulf-2007]

The DL-S1 is a gorgeous cartridge with a beautifully refined treble. I've never understood those who insist on more boutique designs; this is a £2k cart from elsewhere easily!

It works in medium mass arms well. I had it in an RB1000 and an OL Conqueror with great success. I even had it in an N.A. Ace Anna.

I currently use an AT Art-1. I preferred it to the DL-S1 but I could live with either forever. I preferred the slightly more dynamic approach of the ART but many would prefer the slightly more polite DL-S1.

I have not heard the Art-7 .polite is nice but the white knuckle ride of a Decca is doing it for me, I was interested in a DL-S1 but not keen on the step up minefield again.

[Jimbo]

polite is nice but the white nuckle ride of a Decca is doing it for me, I was interested in a DL-S1 but not keen on the step up minefield again.

A good friend of mine who has been in the hifi business for 30 years would completely agree with that statement.:)

[karma67]

another update,ive just bought a spare lentek head amp,i plan to hot rod this one,1 cap at a time and compare to the standard one,i'll also re case it and put new cables on it,lets take this baby to the max!!! :eek:

[Marco]

Good plan, Jamie. I shall follow developments with interest! :cool:

Still enjoying the 'SA', then?

Marco.

[paulf-2007]

Good plan, Jamie. I shall follow developments with interest! :cool:

Still enjoying the 'SA', then?

Marco.valid question Marco, after all he's had it a couple of weeks :)

[karma67]

Good plan, Jamie. I shall follow developments with interest! :cool:

Still enjoying the 'SA', then?

Marco.

very much so,i cant wait to fit it to the zeta when it comes back :cool:


valid question Marco, after all he's had it a couple of weeks :)

i think if you read this thread you'll find im very happy with the 103,best move ive made,the decca just didnt suit my tonearms,the mid range and bass was fantastic but the top end clarity lacked a bit.i dont regret selling it to you,hope you're enjoying it :cool:

[walpurgis]

the top end clarity lacked a bit

Don't recall ever hearing someone say that about a Decca before. :)

[karma67]

well you have now geoff,:D like i said for what ever reason i dont think it jelled with my tonearms or TT.
trust me if it had of done i would not have sold it mate.

[Bigman80]

another update,ive just bought a spare lentek head amp,i plan to hot rod this one,1 cap at a time and compare to the standard one,i'll also re case it and put new cables on it,lets take this baby to the max!!! :eek:Lol, maniac!!! Stop spending!!! 🤣🤣🤣

[karma67]

lol dont get all 'bank manager' on my arse,it was only £40 :ner:

[Bigman80]

lol dont get all 'bank manager' on my arse,it was only £40 :ner:Lol, £40!!!!! Outrageous [emoji23]

[paulf-2007]

very much so,i cant wait to fit it to the zeta when it comes back :cool:



i think if you read this thread you'll find im very happy with the 103,best move ive made,the decca just didnt suit my tonearms,the mid range and bass was fantastic but the top end clarity lacked a bit.i dont regret selling it to you,hope you're enjoying it :cool:
Yes Jamie it's very good and worked with my tone arm without putty between the cart and headshell like the super gold I tried, uh after I connected it correctly. That's odd that the treble didn't sound right in your set up. I wonder what that could have been. Anyhow, a 103 is also very good, I bought a 103 and 103r just to know what they are about and kept the 103r. It will be used on a project I am working on when I have time in a high - ish mass unipivot I have. Other than the 103r I'm done with mc,

[karma67]

look what the postman's brought me :)
only one thing left to arrive now and i can get the turntable up and running!
https://s26.postimg.org/ogjfgm6jd/IMG_1953_1.jpg

[Marco]

Oooh - looks like a nice minty one, too! Can we see the rest of it? :)

I'm sure it's all going to sound ace! :cool:

Marco.

[Bigman80]

Nice. Looks in great nick. Update???

[Bigman80]

Nice. Looks in great nick. Update???Plug it in!!!! Lol

[karma67]

Oooh - looks like a nice minty one, too! Can we see the rest of it? :)

I'm sure it's all going to sound ace! :cool:

Marco.

hi marco,do you mean internal shot of the head amp?

[karma67]

Plug it in!!!! Lol

and do what? ive not got the tonearm counterweight back from speedy steve,although there is a parcel waiting for me at the depot lol

[Bigman80]

and do what? ive not got the tonearm counterweight back from speedy steve,although there is a parcel waiting for me at the depot lolLol damn!!!!

[karma67]

he's one of the inside,it would appear to be untouched and all original.
https://s26.postimg.org/xe45e6h1l/IMG_1958.jpg

https://s26.postimg.org/pldhm5t21/IMG_1957.jpg
the case has a few chips on it but nothing horrific.
when i compare the size of this to the lentek's pcb i can help but think 'whats all the other stuff doing'? lol

[Marco]

hi marco,do you mean internal shot of the head amp?

Yup, internal, but also sides and rear of the unit, to examine its overall condition :)

{I note you're now included a pic of the 'innards'}

Marco.

[paulf-2007]

and do what? ive not got the tonearm counterweight back from speedy steve,although there is a parcel waiting for me at the depot lol
Tape your wallet to it Jamie,

[Marco]

and do what? ive not got the tonearm counterweight back from speedy steve,although there is a parcel waiting for me at the depot lol

Lol... What about an ebony armboard, from the very same man? Those make a notable difference to the sound of any tonearm, upon which the latter are mounted.

Marco.

[karma67]

Lol... What about an ebony armboard, from the very same man? Those make a notable difference to the sound of any tonearm, upon which the latter are mounted.

Marco.
i spent yesterday making a new board for the pioneer tt (pics in my thread).
ebony would be a good contast,its something i could easily make myself being an ex cabinet maker.
it would be a thick chunk too,as underneath the pioneers 5mm aluminum plate there also is a block of 22mm mdf.
i also made a nice brass headshell weight for the denon if needed,see post 108 here http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?55589-the-zeta-is-here!/page11

although as you first said,the zeta may be fine without added mass.
its all coming together nicely and should be all up and running on saturday.

[karma67]

Tape your wallet to it Jamie,

ha ha,it doesn't weigh enough,if things work out right i'll be selling my rock2 and heed orbit psu to recoup funds.

[Marco]

i spent yesterday making a new board for the pioneer tt (pics in my thread).
ebony would be a good contast,its something i could easily make myself being an ex cabinet maker.
it would be a thick chunk too,as underneath the pioneers 5mm aluminum plate there also is a block of 22mm mdf.
i also made a nice brass headshell weight for the denon if needed,see post 108 here http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?55589-the-zeta-is-here!/page11

although as you first said,the zeta may be fine without added mass.
its all coming together nicely and should be all up and running on saturday.

Very nice! if it turns out you don't need the headshell weight, can I bagsie it? :)

Defo go the route of ebony armboard, the deeper the better (as much as space will allow), to provide the best foundation and maximum rigidity for the arm. Ebony is super-hard too, which is good, and to my ears, has a nice sonic signature.

Marco.

[RobbieGong]

Very nice! if it turns out you don't need the headshell weight, can I bagsie it? :)

Defo go the route of ebony armboard, the deeper the better (as much as space will allow), to provide the best foundation and maximum rigidity for the arm. Ebony is super-hard too, which is good, and to my ears, has a nice sonic signature.

Marco.

+1

[paulf-2007]

ha ha,it doesn't weigh enough,if things work out right i'll be selling my rock2 and heed orbit psu to recoup funds.
I did think that afterwards, but should do if you sell the rock. That 103 has a different shape to the usual 103's, looks cool.

[karma67]

Very nice! if it turns out you don't need the headshell weight, can I bagsie it? :)
Marco.

yep no probs,ive found a battery for my scales the headshell weight weighs 8g

[karma67]

so as the tt's up and running i thought id try adding mass to the headshell,as you may know i made a 8g cartridge weight just in case.
for ease i used blue tak in 2g increments,as i increased the weight i could hear the sound become more fuller in the base and mid range,i went up to 6g still liking what i heard then i put the 8g weight on top of the headshell.

i still was hearing fullness but noticed at the same time the high end was becoming more distant with a hint of the sound stage seemingly narrowing behind the speakers.

time to start decreasing...i ended up going between 3 and 4 grams and everything came back to life,i couldn't make my mind up so went with 3.5.after a few hours of listening i went back to no mass added just to confirm my thoughts and the cartridge sounded very thin with no meat to the bass so it seems for my arm 3.5 is the sweet spot.

another thing i noticed was during the adding of the mass at the front end i changed counter weight plates,remember i had some more plates made up in bronze just for this type of experiment.
with the different weights i can balance out the front end with the added benefit of varying the distance from the pivot point,once i have a proper 3.5 g headshell weight i will check this out this out further to see if more improvement can be gained.

for whats it worth im getting lateral resonance at 9hz according to the hfi news test record and on paper according to compliance figures i should be around 12,make of that what you will. all i know is its sounding bloody marvelous right now :cool:

[paulf-2007]

That's good to hear Jamie, I might be wrong but I would think it's better to keep the counterweight close to the pivot, less inertia.

[karma67]

ok so having found that adding 3.5 grams to to the headshell with blu tak im thinking whats having the greatest impact? is it the weight of the blue tak or the damping properties ? or both?
obviously i cant live with a big ball of blu tak on the headshell so any ideas chaps as to what to use instead?

ive already made another weight in aluminum to try at the weekend but thought id ask just in case there's a better alternative .
im thinking of wood too.

[montesquieu]

ok so having found that adding 3.5 grams to to the headshell with blu tak im thinking whats having the greatest impact? is it the weight of the blue tak or the damping properties ? or both?
obviously i cant live with a big ball of blu tak on the headshell so any ideas chaps as to what to use instead?

ive already made another weight in aluminum to try at the weekend but thought id ask just in case there's a better alternative .
im thinking of wood too.

3g Technics headshell weight off eBay - job done.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TECHNICS-SFPZB3501-3-GRAM-HEADSHELL-SHELL-WEIGHT-SPACER-3g-GENUINE-NEW-UK/302621566776?epid=13006597187&hash=item4675a6a738:g:-C0AAMXQlUNRUZSQ