View Full Version : Raymond Lumley amps - can anyone help?
Thank you for the warm welcome I received from others .
As to my first query or posting, it is into the world of tube amps made in the U.K., and that would be those from a man named Raymond Lumley. I own a pair of Raymond Lumley Megavox Signature monoblocks. These are rated at 150 wpc into 8/4 ohm loads. It is a push-pull design with four 6550/KT88 tubes per side, with three 6SN7 tubes are drivers/splitters. I got these as a gift from my wife in 1994. She bought them from a man who moved back to the states from the UK. I have never seen another pair listed for sale or even referred to, at least no one in the USA. I know of some Lumley amps that are in the USA as a friend has a pair of 120 Reference I believe they are called but I have never seen others.
I am looking for any information as to what happened to Lumley and his amps, any schematics, parts (especially handles) and who knows what else. I have tried several Internet searches but I have never been able to discover much. It is almost as if these amps never existed, and since I know that they do, perhaps existed in very small numbers.
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks!
jandl100
05-01-2018, 07:38
Hi Robert
I can't help you much with company or technical details, but about 30 years ago I did own a pair of Lumley M120 monoblock power amps. They used 6550 tubes.
An interesting character named John Jeffries, if memory serves me right, was involved in the product design and manufacture and also brought them to market through a limited number of dealers in the UK including his own hifi shops.
He also produced an esoteric turntable, the Lumley Stratosphere (among other products including speakers) which was well received at the time ...
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e7/be/9e/e7be9e86b64acc75aed3e0fc321d05fd.jpg
He also produced several series of Lumley speakers, often ribbon hybrids. They often evolved rapidly over a period of months with different drivers being swapped in and out! ....
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/qkYAAOSwvfZaJsHw/s-l300.jpg
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/so-much-gear-so-little-time/13367d1134998367-samson-rubicons-fake-adams-lumleyrange.jpg
jandl100
05-01-2018, 09:50
Some more info from this site - http://www.audiotools.com/en_dead_l.html
Grant Lumley Electronics Limited
Company run by Roy N. Grant and Ray Lumley and founded in the UK in the 70’s, the actual date and location unknown at this point in time but believed to have been based somewhere in Hampshire. Early models have the “Grant Lumley Audio” name printed on them and look like DIY projects while later model have just “Grant-Lumley” and look quite professional. The company is mostly interesting since it was probably the first example of the English valve renaissance that bloomed in the late 80’s and early 90’s, the actual products are a bit more problematic, early products, in particular the pre-amplifiers, both control amps and phonographic pre-amps where ravaged by those that tested them at the time of introduction with both noise and microphony problems that made them seem archaic next to the transistorised examples of the age, the power amps fearing somewhat better.
Later product showed marked improvements though and by 1980 the company had moved upmarket, was getting good and even great reviews for their power amplifiers and their products were being distributed as far away as Japan and Singapore. The company changed its name to Grant Lumley Audio (Products) Limited The power amps from the company all had for the time unusually large output transformers, the GL-100 model for instance was almost 34 kilograms on its own, this made them for a time popular amongst owners of Apogee loudspeakers since it meant they could handle difficult loads and the Apogees ribbon speakers that at 2 ohms and even less were notoriously hard to drive. The company split effectively up in 1982 when the 2 owners could not agree on the future direction of the company with amplifier designer Grant wanting to make mid/high end products and more business oriented Lumley wanted to spend more money on the casework and presentation and move upmarket in price to take on the then emerging high/ultra high end markets. This ended in Grant leaving to open Grant Amplifiers the year after while Lumley changed the name of the company to G. L. Products in August 1983. After the split-up both companies continued making basically the same designs, G L Product initially branding them with variations of the Ray Lumley name but later as just Lumley, but the price difference was a something of a revelation, with the admittedly better looking Lumley’s costing almost 3 times as much as the ones from Grant. The company went out of business in 1993 but Ray Lumley came back almost immediately with Reference International.
____
Lumley Loudspeakers Limited
A company based in Bexhill on Sea, in Sussex, England that took over the manufacture of Lumley branded loudspeakers after the demise of Reference International. LL was formed in 1998 by John Jeffries but sales were slow so he decided to concentrate on his other 2 businesses, namely a high end audio store called Sounds-Of-Music and hi-fi distributor Metropolis Music. The company had stopped most manufacturing by 2000 and it was de-listed in 2002, however Metropolis Music retained the Lumley brandname and made a few pairs of loudspeakers in the following years.
Hello Jerry,
Thank you so much for taking the time to send me all of that information. It was a huge help, and it certainly make things clear as to what happened to the collaboration between Grant and Lumley, the very accurate description of the "DIY" look of the earlier amps and the subsequent Raymond Lumley amps of which I own a pair. The woman who is the chief engineer / designer at deHavilland Electric Amp, Kara Chaffee, told my friend who has the Reference 120 amps that if she were to build amps of "that" quality (referring to his 120's) and price them in today's dollars, it would cost somewhere around $12,000 USD. I do know just from lifting my amps that there is some serious "iron" in the transformers.
I was once able to locate an importation company in Wheaton, Illinois, that attempted to bring Lumley amps into the USA. There best seller at the time was a 75WPC stereo amp that sold for roughly $2850 USD in the late 1990's, a fair amount of money at that time. The importer (and I wish I could remember the name) said that the Lumley amps were going against too much competition in the USA, with Audio Research, Conrad-Johnson, and Cary all being more available, and all getting far more "ink" (audiophile magazine coverage) at the time whereas Lumley was getting nothing, and while there were some reviews of Lumley amps in the British audio magazines, those were not read much here in the USA.
I have attempted to show some pictures of my stereo system as it appeared at the time the photo was taken. Much of that equipment is gone, but the Lumley amps remain. You can see that they look more refined. There is a bias meter in the middle of the faceplate, four knobs to adjust tube bias, and a relatively nice "glass" faceplate that is black with green lettering for all the necessary printing.
I also wonder if you know or ever heard of a cable called "Silver Sounds"? It was supposedly produced in the UK somewhere and it was a cable that was highly recommended for use with Lumley equipment. It was a stranded wire design with silver wire, not silver coated copper wire but solid silver wire. Considering today's silver prices, I should have purchased a whole roll of the Silver Sounds cable as it was about $6.95 a foot back then (around 1995) though if things were to remain constant and there were no "price gouging" that wire would be about $11.25 today in USD.
Again, thank you so much for all of your time and hard work. I recently had some bias resistors replaced on the amps, the bias meter and knobs replaced, and a few caps replaced as well. For the $500 it cost me for both amps, I still consider the Lumleys a bargain. I guess the largest compliment on these amps came when I told a man named Jason Bloom, the man who created the original Apogee speakers, that I was using a pair of tubed monoblock amps to drive a pair of his Stages speakers, a notorious difficult load as it was a 2 ohm load, albeit a flat 2 ohm load. He could not believe a tube amp could do that as the vast majority of Stages were driven by large Krell, Aragon, or Kinergetic amps. He was supposed to visit my home and see and hear for himself this minor miracle but tragedy struck him and he died an early death, never making it to Seattle to see me.
Again, my thanks,
Bob
jandl100
06-01-2018, 06:52
Great pics - my gosh, those amps are monsters! I've never seen that model before. I didn't know Lumley made amps that big. Maybe they were specifically for the US market, attempting to meet AR and cj etc head on?
Silver Sound cables. Yup, I tried some of those from my local Lumley dealer but didn't like them. By an interesting coincidence, when I returned the demo pair to the shop, John Jeffries was there. He asked me what I thought of the cables and why I was returning them, eyeing me closely!
I said they were a bit vague and bloomy regarding imaging for me. He just looked at me thoughtfully and nodded, not saying a word. I think he knew what I meant.
Yes, large and heavy at 44.2 kilos. These amps came from the UK so they must have been for sale there at one time. However they were set for 120v when I got them so I do not know if they were reconfigured there or it was a US model and the man brought them here. My wife bought them for me as a 40th birthday present to the tune of $3000 USD. I have owned these amps now for 23 years and have ever once thought of selling them. I am sure as I write this I am going to create a hex on me but the amps are rather gentle on tubes, and have had the caps in the power supply replaced just once, a few resistors replaced and the knob that allows for each tube to be biased had to be replaced as well as the needle danced all over the place when selecting a tube.
I have often wondered how many pairs of these amps were ever made. The one time US importer thought that there were less than 100 pairs.
Do you recall what amp you were using with the Silver Sounds when you tried it? Compared to many US made cables, I found the Silver Sounds open and revealing (in a good way) when used with the Lumleys.
A quick note: going back to your post about the GLA 100 amp with the 34 kilo output transformer, and it's ability to drive Apogee speakers, I would have no doubt that the same output transformer is my amps as I drove my Stages with no issue, plus the 44.2 kilo weight of my amps has to have some serious iron in it to get to that weight!
Also, my amps only operate in ultralinear mode. My friend who has the Reference 120 amps has the ability to operate his in either triode or UL. While his also uses 6550 or KT88 tubes, the input tubes are all nine pin miniatures whereas my input tubes are all octal based 6SN7.
Man, it is times like this I wish I owned some type of catalog of Lumleys products and their specs...
jandl100
06-01-2018, 10:42
I must admit that 6550 or kt88 don't make a lot of sense to me for triode mode.
They seem better suited to the gutsier presentation of UL.
But maybe that's just me!
The speakers I was using when I tried Silver Sounds cable? Whoosh! 35 years ago! Could have been Proac Response 3.
In the interests of accuracy, the Apogee Stage was the easiest of all Apogee all ribbon speakers to drive. Nominally three Ohms, it was the only model to have a double sided bass panel to increase efficiency. No one makes a replacement so the Stage is a doomed speaker.
Jason would have been well aware of this, so I think he might have been pandering you a little:)
http://www.reality-audio.com/stage.html
BTW I had an ST70 and the 120 monos driving Martin Logans. I preferred the ST70 by a good margin on those speakers.
jandl100
06-01-2018, 14:52
Why was that?
The 120s just sounded like the were trying too hard. Like they had this clamp vice like grip and couldn't let go. Dead hard to describe but they just didn't sound natural.
The ST70 I liked really quite a lot. Didn't suffer from the above negative and drove the Aerius really nicely.
Hi,
Jason very well could have been blowing the proverbial sunshine up my behind. I was relatively new to the world of hi end at the time but even a three ohm load is fairly nasty compared to so many of the box speakers of the day (and today). That they (the Lumleys) were able to still drive them and sound good doing so was enough for me. Though there are times I wish I had kept them, it is as you say, a speaker that was doomed once Apogee went the way of the dodo. Even when I had mine there were some maintenance issues as the Mylar in the panels would shift from use. The rear panel of the speaker had to be removed and the "panel" itself had to be re-aligned, tightened or whatever. When driven correctly and with a good front end as well as good cables, they were some excellent transducers....
Was there not also a ST75 or am I confused?
There was an ST40 which Paul Coupe of RFC used to own. That was very good driving Horning Agathons.
The Stage really did die because of the panel. You can get other Apogees fixed as Graz makes replacement ribbons and brand new Apogee speakers. He owns the name and has refurbishers in various locations around the world. I run some custom built Apogee Duettas which we made quite a few design mods on to improve on the original design.
Perhaps my ignorance is showing but hey, I am willing to risk it. I thought there were Apogee "knock-offs" made somewhere in Europe, and for some reason I thought it was in Greece or close by. Other than those, I was not aware of the the Apogee name being sold and bought by another company. I will have to see what there is here in the states but I suspect the current cost would drain the monies set aside for silly things like retirement, food, medicals costs and such.
A former colleague still owns an original pair of Apogee Divas with the external crossover. I know that he suffered some damage to some panels and was lost as to how to get them repaired. I did send some information and links to him as to some repair possibilities but I have no idea if he took advantage of any of those or not.
jandl100
07-01-2018, 06:03
Double post
jandl100
07-01-2018, 06:05
The Greek company was (and maybe still is) Analysis Audio. http://www.analysisaudio.com/
I heard a dem of their Apogee Caliper equivalent, by size, the Epsilon (I used to own Caliper Signatures) and they sounded incredibly similar! Even down to a singularly characteristic midrange colouration (that larger Apogees don't have and that I don't recall hearing in Stages).
Here's the Analysis Omega (the range was mostly named after Greek letters) ...
http://www.aca.gr/var/domain/aca/upload/002/110.0677x0450.jpg?rev=1334434033
http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/dealers.html
Try Bill or Rich for your friend assuming he's USA.
That website is old and there is a more up to date Facebook page, but I hate Facebook so no link!:D
Yes, Analysis Audio! Thank you!
I heard a pair of the Omegas I believe it was once at an audio show. Having only heard my own Stages and my friend's Divas, I cannot say for certain if they were like most Apogee products but I do recall that I liked what I heard. I was not too happy with the price tag, and the missus was shocked as well. I spent some time convincing her that the Stages that I had owned were not anywhere near the price that Analysis Audio was charging. Not knowing all the particulars of the Omegas, I do recall the Divas having three distinct sections, one large panel and two smaller narrow ribbons. The Omegas I saw looked somewhat like Stages on steroids. I will have to contact Analysis Audio and see, 1) if I get a response and 2) where there might be a dealer near me. Looking at their website, I see that they list a more "friendly" load for amps to drive compared to the Apogees of yore...
As to my friend who had the Divas, it was my understanding that his stepson got mad at him and kicked a hole in what I called the bass panel, for lack of a more technical term. Oh my....
The Omega is the equivalent of an Apogee Duetta.
A good pair of Duettas will outperform the Omega. Here is an account of someone who heard a sub-optimal pair of Divas, and a pair of Omegas. He then came round to hear my Duetta based design on the same day (literally an hour after hearing the Omegas).
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?23127-Another-Apogee-thread-You-bet!
The Omega inspired me to be where I am now. So it does have merit. At one stage I nearly bought a pair of Amphitryons from Tassos Hartzis (his pair). Too huge for my room.
Hello,
Just seen your post ( 2 years late I know) I now run my pair on KT 88’s rather than the original 6550’s. My engineer when after rebuilding recommended 35 to 40 mA. He said they could be run up to 50 mA but wouldn’t have great longevity. He also said was to use matched quads and keep all at the same bias.
These are one of the best amps I have heard still! I have run several different speaker cables over the years and currently using Tellurium Silver into Scansonic speakers.
Thank you for the warm welcome I received from others .
As to my first query or posting, it is into the world of tube amps made in the U.K., and that would be those from a man named Raymond Lumley. I own a pair of Raymond Lumley Megavox Signature monoblocks. These are rated at 150 wpc into 8/4 ohm loads. It is a push-pull design with four 6550/KT88 tubes per side, with three 6SN7 tubes are drivers/splitters. I got these as a gift from my wife in 1994. She bought them from a man who moved back to the states from the UK. I have never seen another pair listed for sale or even referred to, at least no one in the USA. I know of some Lumley amps that are in the USA as a friend has a pair of 120 Reference I believe they are called but I have never seen others.
I am looking for any information as to what happened to Lumley and his amps, any schematics, parts (especially handles) and who knows what else. I have tried several Internet searches but I have never been able to discover much. It is almost as if these amps never existed, and since I know that they do, perhaps existed in very small numbers.
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks!
A little late to this thread so I apologise.
I purchased a pair of these around 1993 when they were fitted from new with GEC 6550’s, I now run KT 88’s. I auditioned these against the then top of the range Audio Research mono blocks but they didn’t hold a candle to the big Lumleys. Ray Lumley sold the company as stated previously to John Jeffries who went on to produce the 120 monoblocks, speakers and the superb Reference turntable. His later amps were quite different looking beasts. It was reputed that Mr Lumley was made an example of by the tax man. I had quite a few problems in the early days but received a lot of help from John Jeffries who was a true gentleman and they were sorted. I have run them with big Audio static speakers, Proacs and now Scansonics. They can drive anything, sounding realistic with great depth and a large sound stage.
After 30 years the engineer who has looked after them for me when required suggested a major rebuild, and I cannot wait to get them back.
Hope this helps!
Rush2112
15-02-2023, 13:43
Hi Robert,
Hope you have found the answers you needed, I owned Lumley Reference M120's monobloc's for many years they were manufactured and distributed by John Jeffries they were superb and if you kept the valve bias sensible you would get very decent valve life from the 6550's my preference at the time being Sovtek's. I believe John is still very active in the Hi-Fi world and as far as I know these are his best contact details:
https://sussexmusicstudio.co.uk/
johnjeffries@sussexmusicstudio.co.uk
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