Review of "The Big" cable or Olivers new prototype cable

[Wakefield Turntables]

I got these just before Xmas and have had a good listen to them. The cable is very fast, detailed and open. I compared these protoypes to the Mark Grant HD1000 cable and found that they had considerable more detail than the Mark Grant cable. I noted that cymbals had greater shimmer and I could see into the music more with Oliver's cables. Heavier music seemed to have more of an impending doom feeling, bass was fuller, faster and just over all better defined than the Mark Grant offering. They are an instant improvement over the Mark Grant. The construction of the cable is very good, quite sturdy, especially for it's prototype status. They do have a certain "sound" and can sound a little strident with high treble but this is only a minor gripe and one which will not spoil your experience whilst using them. I did manage to guess some of the cables components due to their sonic nature, my lips are sealed! Overall, I think the cable should do well at the proposed price point. I certainly enjoyed my time with them.

Many thanks Oliver. :cool:

[Bigman80]

Thanks for taking the time to cast your ear over the cables, Andrew.

I think if there is a "Bandwidth" available in cables, these certainly deliver more than any I've tried. I agree that on certain material the HF can be a bit, well, strident, as you say BUT it is never out of control or breaking up. In fact, I can't think of a time it's been unpleasant to listen to. The revealing nature of the cable doesn't mask anything. If it's on the recording, it comes through and that hasn't always been the case with the cables I've previously owned.

The price point..... at an estimate they would cost about £75 for 1m pair to buy and the construction is a bit better refined now. All things learned from the guys and girls who have had them on loan and fedback their thoughts.

I use these cables daily and I love them. But I would, wouldn't I [emoji23]



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[YNWaN]

Silver plated copper? That’s supposed to give the character Andrew describes. Personally I’m not so convinced; although I think it can be true I don’t think it’s a given in the way some seem to think (I’m not suggesting Andrew thinks this).

[Bigman80]

It is silver plated.

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[YNWaN]

But not copper...... ? Not the silver plated steel stuff used for microwave transmission?

[Bigman80]

But not copper...... ? Not the silver plated steel stuff used for microwave transmission?I didn't know they made silver plated steel ?

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[Barry]

I didn't know they made silver plated steel ?

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Yes - RG316, RG714 amongst others, use a central conductor that is silver-plated copper-coated steel.

[Bigman80]

Yes - RG316, RG714 amongst others, use a central conductor that is silver-plated copper-coated steel.Silver plated on to copper plated steel? Why on earth would anyone do that? Why not just go and plate directly to copper?

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[Barry]

I didn't know they made silver plated steel ?

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Yes - RG316 and RG174, amongst other coaxial cables, use copper-plated steel for the centre conductor.

[Barry]

Silver plated on to copper plated steel? Why on earth would anyone do that? Why not just go and plate directly to copper?

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It's an option, some versions simply use copper-coated steel. I'm not sure if the copper coating is plated or if it is a done by a rolling cold-weld technique.

[YNWaN]

The benefit is reduced weight and cost - neither matters if you are conducting super high frequencies (microwave level) that exist solely in the outer levels of the cable - where the silver plating is. The copper is there to facilitate the silver plating and does appear to be some kind of extruded jacket (but only a few microns thick).

[walpurgis]

Silver plated on to copper plated steel? Why on earth would anyone do that? Why not just go and plate directly to copper?

I don't know, but is this a type of cable that relies on 'skin effect'? If so, then I could understand the use of steel being employed for the sake of economy.

[walpurgis]

Ah. I see Mark has more or less answered my question.

[Edward]

Sounds interesting.

Are these cables now for sale and if so what is the ordering process? I assume they are rca interconnects.

Where best to use these cables initially ? Between a DAC and Pre or between a Pre and Power?

[Bigman80]

Rothwell uses RG316 doesn't he? Maybe he has a point of view on it. There must be a reason he and others recommend it?

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[YNWaN]

Please don’t let my posts derail your thread - that is genuinely not my intent. However, in response to your last post, yes Rothwell use RG316 which is precisely the cable I was talking about - stranded steel cable, clad in copper, silver plated - intended for propagation of microwave level frequencies.

[Bigman80]

Please don’t let my posts derail your thread - that is genuinely not my intent. However, in response to your last post, yes Rothwell use RG316 which is precisely the cable I was talking about - stranded steel cable, clad in copper, silver plated - intended for propagation of microwave level frequencies.Ah! Yes I thought so. Googling the RG316 brought up a pic which looked like the Rothwell stuff.

I believe another manufacturer uses it too

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[YNWaN]

Yes, indeed, but let’s not waste time discussing ‘also rans’ :).

[Stryder5]

It could be that there are times when tensile strength is a requirement due to environmental conditions.

Copper is not as strong as steel, it also stress fractures easily.

No idea if these are the reasons, just possibilities.





Silver plated on to copper plated steel? Why on earth would anyone do that? Why not just go and plate directly to copper?

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[Macca]

Copper much more expensive than steel.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I agree that on certain material the HF can be a bit, well, strident, as you say BUT it is never out of control or breaking up. In fact, I can't think of a time it's been unpleasant to listen to. The revealing nature of the cable doesn't mask anything. If it's on the recording, it comes through and that hasn't always been the case with the cables I've previously owned.



I didn't suggest that anything "broke up", on the contrary this never happened. Strident is just another term meaning shrill or a bit high pitched on your lug holes. Just to further add that I did pick an album with some exceptionally high notes. The cable did tame the recording a little but not sufficient to prevent all shrillness. This was not something that I expected from the cable, but as Oliver says it certainly did purvey what was on the vinyl. So that much is accurate. I did notice that the cable was also quite good with sibilance, again not perfect but it did make some recordings more bearable. No criticism towards the cable, I think it's great and should be tried.


Silver plated copper? That’s supposed to give the character Andrew describes. Personally I’m not so convinced; although I think it can be true I don’t think it’s a given in the way some seem to think (I’m not suggesting Andrew thinks this).

Mark, I think I can usually pick out silver plated or silver cables with "think" being the operative word!!!! All my systems are usually silver cable based. This cable sounded very nordost but without the crappy light weight bass that the speaker cables seem to suffer from. I'm a cable sceptic and I also like a scientific explanation but the more I pursue this hobby the more I realise that science dosen't always mirror supposed outcome and I've learned to trust my ears rather than driving myself nuts trying to understand the science.

[Barry]

RG316 is indeed used by more than one manufacturer as cable for audio interconnects. I have some leads using it terminated with CAMAC connectors for use with Mark Levinson gear. I don't like them as I find the FEP outer jacket, along with the single steel wire centre conductor, makes the cable too 'springy' and difficult to dress. I much prefer to use RG174, which uses a stranded copper-plated steel centre conductor and a PVC outer jacket, making the cable much more flexible, and thin enough to fit CAMAC connectors.

But I digress - this thread is all about Oliver's cables.

[Bigman80]

I didn't suggest that anything "broke up", on the contrary this never happened. Strident is just another term meaning shrill or a bit high pitched on your lug holes. Just to further add that I did pick an album with some exceptionally high notes. The cable did tame the recording a little but not sufficient to prevent all shrillness. This was not something that I expected from the cable, but as Oliver says it certainly did purvey what was on the vinyl. So that much is accurate. I did notice that the cable was also quite good with sibilance, again not perfect but it did make some recordings more bearable. No criticism towards the cable, I think it's great and should be tried.



Mark, I think I can usually pick out silver plated or silver cables with "think" being the operative word!!!! All my systems are usually silver cable based. This cable sounded very nordost but without the crappy light weight bass that the speaker cables seem to suffer from. I'm a cable sceptic and I also like a scientific explanation but the more I pursue this hobby the more I realise that science dosen't always mirror supposed outcome and I've learned to trust my ears rather than driving myself nuts trying to understand the science.Hi Andrew,

I know you didn't state there was any break up but I just wanted to clarify it and add a bit of personal opinion. Your review has prompted a couple of enquiries so it's obviously come across as well as I read it.

Strident is a great word BUT It can mean grating or unpleasant. Hence me trying to clarify

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171228/3557aad4b6be5ceac1eb3d0be5aef669.jpg

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[Wakefield Turntables]

Oliver,

I think I may not have quite explained myself properly. I have a track which has always been very strident and is indeed very grating, it's a guitar solo on a Marillion album which has a quite a high note which could quite easily pierce your eardrum from 100m down the road :), so this has proven quite a useful tool to assess a cables ability to transcribe / or calm what's on the vinyl. If the cable produces a shrill, strident note then it's a faithful reproduction of the vinyl and the recording process in the studio. Conversely the cable must be colouring or adding something if I detect changes in the nature of the note. All very subjective I agree but I have had this album 20+ years and I think I'm confident in detecting small changes. I don't think you should use this cable if your after something that's going to flatter your system, it won't. The cable could be worth a trial if your after something to honestly transcribe what's on your vinyl, wart's 'n all!

I hope this has verified things. ;)

[Bigman80]

Oliver,

I think I may not have quite explained myself properly. I have a track which has always been very strident and is indeed very grating, it's a guitar solo on a Marillion album which has a quite a high note which could quite easily pierce your eardrum from 100m down the road :), so this has proven quite a useful tool to assess a cables ability to transcribe / or calm what's on the vinyl. If the cable produces a shrill, strident note then it's a faithful reproduction of the vinyl and the recording process in the studio. Conversely the cable must be colouring or adding something if I detect changes in the nature of the note. All very subjective I agree but I have had this album 20+ years and I think I'm confident in detecting small changes. I don't think you should use this cable if your after something that's going to flatter your system, it won't. The cable could be worth a trial if your after something to honestly transcribe what's on your vinyl, wart's 'n all!

I hope this has verified things. ;)Ah! Now I get it. Thanks Andrew. You get warts and all, which is what I wanted.

I'm happy with that [emoji6]



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[Lawrence001]

Oliver,

I think I may not have quite explained myself properly. I have a track which has always been very strident and is indeed very grating, it's a guitar solo on a Marillion album which has a quite a high note which could quite easily pierce your eardrum from 100m down the road :), so this has proven quite a useful tool to assess a cables ability to transcribe / or calm what's on the vinyl. If the cable produces a shrill, strident note then it's a faithful reproduction of the vinyl and the recording process in the studio. Conversely the cable must be colouring or adding something if I detect changes in the nature of the note. All very subjective I agree but I have had this album 20+ years and I think I'm confident in detecting small changes. I don't think you should use this cable if your after something that's going to flatter your system, it won't. The cable could be worth a trial if your after something to honestly transcribe what's on your vinyl, wart's 'n all!

I hope this has verified things. ;)I've often thought about this, and it borders on the philosophical, but on what system did you hear it to determine what the correct sound of the guitar in the recording was like, and with what cables?

My simplistic thinking was that if you analyse the waveform on the original recording and compare to a professionally mic'd recording of the system you might be able to measure "closeness" of the reproduced sound to the original, but what about the influence of the mic(s) and the cables used for those?

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[Scooby]

Is it too early for us to have a pic of these cables?

[Bigman80]

This is a pic of the prototype cables. The strain relief is a bit more substantial now and they are a bit neater. Better solder too. Leaded type. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171229/01dc7f37a6a88277746f4ac6c31fd3b9.jpg

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[Scooby]

Cheers, Oliver. They look the biz!

[smangus]

. Heavier music seemed to have more of an impending doom feeling, bass was fuller, faster and just over all better defined than the Mark Grant offering.

So Oliver, does this mean you can colour them all black and market them for a specific Goth/Emo audiophile type? :lol:

Nice review :)

[Bigman80]

Cheers, Oliver. They look the biz!Thanks Andy [emoji1]

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[Bigman80]

So Oliver, does this mean you can colour them all black and market them for a specific Goth/Emo audiophile type? [emoji38]

Nice review :)I can make them bright green if you like [emoji23]

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[Barry]

I can make them bright green if you like [emoji23]

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Now that would make them coloured! ;)

[Bigman80]

Now that would make them coloured! ;)🤣

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[Wakefield Turntables]

I've often thought about this, and it borders on the philosophical, but on what system did you hear it to determine what the correct sound of the guitar in the recording was like, and with what cables?

My simplistic thinking was that if you analyse the waveform on the original recording and compare to a professionally mic'd recording of the system you might be able to measure "closeness" of the reproduced sound to the original, but what about the influence of the mic(s) and the cables used for those?

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I did say it was subjective. I have three main systems. The system I used consisted of

Lenco Reference 75 Deck + Nigels Speed Controller
Alphason HR100s tonearm rewired with IKEDA silver
Modified Shure M55 cartridge with JICO neoSAS/S stylus & Snakewood body
EAR 834P Clone
ATC SCA-2 Preamp
ATC 50 ASM active speakers
Yannis Tome balanced IC's for the speakers
Nordost TYR tonearm cable
Mark Grant HD1000 IC's (THESE ARE THE ONESI REPLACED IN THE REVIEW).

All powered through a PS Audio P10.

It's all stuff I've had for years so I have a good appreciation of the sound. The ATC's are known to be very analytical. It's quite easy to hear changes so I don't have to worry about using software to analyse anything. I trust my ears and prefer to use them and buy my kit that way. I did say it was very subjective. We'll never really know how close we are to an original recording, but we can have fun guessing. :D



So Oliver, does this mean you can colour them all black and market them for a specific Goth/Emo audiophile type? :lol:

Nice review :)

:rfl:That's quite funny. I think I was listening to the opening track on the first Sabbath LP. Now if that's about as doom based a riff as I could find. Electric Wizard are quite good as well.

[Blueflash]

Silver plated on to copper plated steel? Why on earth would anyone do that? Why not just go and plate directly to copper?

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A lot of the cables are made for military purposes and have to put up with a squaddie putting plugs together with partially frozen fingers, so the have to be tough but still need the conductive properties of the silver which would flake off if plated to steel. The copper plating add the right amount of ductility to keep the silver attached ...

[Bigman80]

A lot of the cables are made for military purposes and have to put up with a squaddie putting plugs together with partially frozen fingers, so the have to be tough but still need the conductive properties of the silver which would flake off if plated to steel. The copper plating add the right amount of ductility to keep the silver attached ...That makes sense.

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[YNWaN]

Mark Grant HD1000 IC's (THESE ARE THE ONESI REPLACED IN THE REVIEW).

Mark Grant is a great guy and very easy to deal with. However, his interconnects didn’t do a lot for me if I’m honest (they were all the rage on AoS at the time).

[Bigman80]

Mark Grant is a great guy and very easy to deal with. However, his interconnects didn’t do a lot for me if I’m honest (they were all the rage on AoS at the time).I've had a set of his HD-1000. They were a lot better once the spring loaded RCA plugs were off.

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