View Full Version : Step Up Transformer recommendations for a Denon DL-103
Having not found the answer by using a search, I am wondering what a good choice of SUT would be for my Techne Audio modified DL-103 with a boron cantilever and Shibata stylus?
It would also need to work with an AT33PTG/II.
I don't want to spend loads on the SUT, but I want something that offers good value for money, and obviously performs very well.
Audio Al
26-12-2017, 09:53
http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/headspace_mc_headamp.html
K&K Audio
http://www.kandkaudio.com
I have a K&K SUT Which I have used with a range of MC cartridges. Very good indeed build around 2 Lundahl transformers.
I have a friend who compared it against a whole range of SUT's and this one came out on top.
walpurgis
26-12-2017, 10:11
Fidelity Research FRT-3. Works great with Denon MC's and every other type of Japanese MC I've come across. Sounds good with Ortofons too.
Best value good sounding SUT out there!!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fidelity-Research-FRT-3-MC-Step-Up-Toroidal-Transformer/142617747745?hash=item2134ae2121:g:N-sAAOSwCMFaAfqm
There was a hifi news blackhead on EBay for £50 or best offer. I'd buy that.
I use a pair of Haufe T-7883 step up transformers. They are designed for a source impedance of 40Ohm and have a step-up ratio of 10:1, so are perfect to use with the Denon 103.
walpurgis
26-12-2017, 13:34
There was a hifi news blackhead on EBay for £50 or best offer. I'd buy that.
I've owned one. Not impressed. I found it thick and dull sounding.
Blackdog
26-12-2017, 13:38
I'll second the K&K SUT's.
Great sound with the Lundahl transformers, and Kevin is a terrific guy to deal with.
Denon AU320. Designed for the cartridge by the manufacturer and often available around the £250 mark. Sounds surprisingly good in my system, and sports both 3and 40 ohm taps so good for Ortofon MC &c as well.
Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk
So, Fidelity Research FRT3, Denon AU320, a K&K SUT or Rothwell MCL?
So, Fidelity Research FRT3, Denon AU320, a K&K SUT or Rothwell MCL?
You might want to ask Marco which one he would recommend as he uses a 103 and has used at least a few of those SUT,s although now I think he uses a headamp.
RothwellAudio
27-12-2017, 09:37
I wrote this page all about choosing transformers for Denon cartridges:
http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/step-up_transformers_for_denon.html
Did a Google search not come up with the page? I'll have to have words with them about that :lol:
Pretty much any turns ratio between 1:10 and 1:20 will be ok and the same range will work for the Audio Technica too. The 1:10 end of the spectrum will give you less voltage into the phonostage though not enough to be problem, but generally a lower turns ratio gives a better frequency response (all other things being equal, which they never are).
Andrew,
I have read your page, which was very informative.
I am tempted by the MCL, but still have doubts about SUT Vs Headamp.
walpurgis
27-12-2017, 10:05
The thing about decent SUT's, is that they hold their value, so should you buy one to try at a sensible price and decide against it, you can re-sell it at no loss, apart from postage.
RothwellAudio
27-12-2017, 10:36
...but still have doubts about SUT Vs Headamp.
We have a distributor in France who may be able to arrange a SUT/Headamp demonstration for you
http://nc-audio.com/
Or you could ask for opinions here regarding SUTs and headamps but I suspect you will get a 50:50 split with half saying that nothing can beat a SUT and the other half saying that SUTs are rubbish. OK, maybe not that polarised, but enough conflict to leave you feeling none the wiser.
Are vintage Haufe SUTs worth looking at?
Are vintage Haufe SUTs worth looking at?
Yes, as I mentioned in my post above, the Haufe T-7883s are ideal for the Denon 103. They are used in the well-regarded Auditorium A23 SUT, which for many was the SUT to use with the 103 and 103Pro.
The Altec 'Peerless' range of SUTs are also well regarded: Cinemag being their modern equivalent (Altec sold their transformer division to Cinemag).
And there are a couple of Lundahl transformers that are also popular with Denon 103 users.
Thanks Barry.
I have just bought the Haufe SUT. It is a 1:20 version though, but was not that expensive.
That leaves me enough cash for a Rothwell Headspace as well.
navigator
28-12-2017, 21:17
With Denon 103R I used Rothwell MC L . Suited my rig to make quick transients staging and tight bass from valve Ear phono.
The SUT has arrived.
I have plugged it in, and I am listening to the first few tracks. There is no noticeable hum, and it sounds quite good so far.
Here is an internal shot of my SUT.
https://flic.kr/p/21Qp22g
Audio Al
05-01-2018, 10:56
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4647/38616375365_bb5b4a5e3c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/21Qp22g)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/21Qp22g) by CageyH (https://www.flickr.com/photos/34008877@N06/), on Flickr
Thanks.
I was not able to do that on my phone.
Does it look “normal” for a SUT with Haufe transformers?
I can’t see any manufacturers marks without taking it apart further.
It sounds seeet enough though with my DL-103C1
navigator
05-01-2018, 13:01
I have found that the choice of interconnect cables SUT to preamp makes a significant change to the sound quality. Currently using Rothwell The River to suit my need. Silvered OFC copper also suits . Electrical values seem to be difficult to equate to actual results . Worth trying all types . Lower impedances tend to dull the sound which may present as increased bass. Higher resistances make for a more dynamic bright sound ( my preference since my speakers can make bass from nothing much) . Not at all sure that these comments are generally valid but it's my experience ( Hana SL)
RothwellAudio
05-01-2018, 16:23
Yes, the cable between the transformer and the phonostage can make a difference, though I would expect it to be subtle rather than massive. The capacitance of the cable can have an effect on the high frequency/transient performance of the transformer, particularly if there's no optimised load network on the secondary winding. Also, shielded cable is a must if you want to avoid hum problems.
Hi Kevin,
Pity you didn't PM me about this, as for most of the festive period I've been 'off grid' on hi-fi matters, concentrating instead on eating, drinking and entertaining guests! :eyebrows:;)
Had you done so, I could've have given you some useful advice... Anyway, have you got the cables for your SUT the wrong way round? It looks like the polarity of the incoming black and red cables are reversed on the output?
To test for this, so that channels aren't mixed up, use a test disc or some music where you know what instruments should be on which channels, to see that all is ok.
Marco.
I realised that I had made a mistake, and it has since be corrected.
Having never heard a SUT, I fancied trying one and this “vintage” Haufe seems to be working well.
I’ll be sending my KIN back to Mr Firebottle soon, so this may well become surplus to requirements.
No worries... For a different 'flavour', you may want to try a good head amp at some point, and compare it against your SUT. In the meantime though, enjoy :)
Marco.
Thanks.
I was not able to do that on my phone.
Does it look “normal” for a SUT with Haufe transformers?
I can’t see any manufacturers marks without taking it apart further.
It sounds seeet enough though with my DL-103C1
The transformers don't look like the Haufe transformers I have. The ones I have, and others that I have seen, have cylindrical metal housings.
But if you bought your SUT from Haufe, then one must assume they are Haufe transformers.
They look a bit like these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Haufe-Output-Transformer-board-for-EMT-981-and-EMT-982-/232295448961?nma=true&si=1fSyrfYnCDtJ3%252Fx2bkHFBImlRtM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
They look a bit like these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Haufe-Output-Transformer-board-for-EMT-981-and-EMT-982-/232295448961?nma=true&si=1fSyrfYnCDtJ3%252Fx2bkHFBImlRtM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Those are output transformers used in the line output circuitry of EMT CD players.
What you need are transformers designed for microphones (moving coil or ribbon) or specifically moving-coil cartridges. However as whatever it is you have works well for you, I wouldn't worry about it.
Apparently they date from the early 70's, They sound fine to me, but they are just not what I was expecting to see.
I use a pair of Haufe T-7883 step up transformers. They are designed for a source impedance of 40Ohm and have a step-up ratio of 10:1, so are perfect to use with the Denon 103.
Hi - do you have a photo of these?
And from where did you get them?
(Thanks).
Hi - do you have a photo of these?
And from where did you get them?
(Thanks).
You can purchase these directly from Haufe, but you need to bank wire them the money.
Having not found the answer by using a search, I am wondering what a good choice of SUT would be for my Techne Audio modified DL-103 with a boron cantilever and Shibata stylus?
It would also need to work with an AT33PTG/II.
I don't want to spend loads on the SUT, but I want something that offers good value for money, and obviously performs very well.
Resurrecting an old thread here but a definite vote for the Rothwell Headspace.
Mine arrived this morning and it’s already proved to be a great piece of kit. Fantastic service from Andrew and next day delivery.
I’ve owned numerous DL-103/103R’s in various incarnations and while they’ve been “OK” I’ve always felt I was not allowing them to show their real potential with the various SUT’s I’ve tried.
My current DL-103R is a Paradox Pulse 103R direct from Paradox after they ran it in for 50 hours. With my Denon AU-S1 or Art Audio SUT’s. It sounded a tad flat and “uninteresting”.
Enter the Headspace!
Setup with a loading of 140R the Paradox Pulse just sings like never before. It’s very sensitive to loading as either 100R or 250R either sound a tad thin or flat respectively. It’s incredibly musical and enjoyable - all the aspects I was expecting. It’s also very quiet through my Croft 25RS/7 monos.
It doesn’t have the refinement or absolute resolution of my Denon DL-S1/AU-S1 combo but at less than a quarter of the price it’s a stunning combination.
Moreover, with multiple loading/gains available it will also partner my Goldbug Brier. At some point I'll have to see how it fares with the DL-S1 ;)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/48af7445018bfc20e1e64d232f44d108.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/50b0a1c2165d7bd5a20201356f1a808f.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/bdd7fcc43079a94ad61e71e653c2dc54.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
hifi_dave
04-04-2018, 12:37
That Rothwell Head Space is an excellent and reasonably priced step-up.
Great stuff, Stephen. In my experience, Andrew's products are always very well-designed and offer high SPPV, so enjoy! :cool:
Also, as you'll now be aware, it's handy having access to both a quality head amp *and* SUT, as musically, they do things differently, but equally enjoyably. What you need to try now (unless I've missed it) is using either in conjunction with a top-notch valve MM stage...
That's when you'll *really* hear what's on your records!;)
Marco.
What you need to try now (unless I've missed it) is using either in conjunction with a top-notch valve MM stage...
That's when you'll *really* hear what's on your records!;)
Marco.
Hi Marco
I think the phono stage in the Croft 25RS is pretty well respected (I’m using a pair of triple mica NOS Telefunken ECC801S to boot).
I have toyed with the idea of a TRON convergence but after the new Jelco arm and Headspace I’d best take a breath
Steve
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hi Marco
I think the phono stage in the Croft 25RS is pretty well respected (I’m using a pair of triple mica NOS Telefunken ECC801S to boot).
I have toyed with the idea of a TRON convergence but after the new Jelco arm and Headspace I’d best take a breath
Steve
Ah, okies... I wasn't sure what your preamp was, valve or SS. That should be very nice then :cool:
Marco.
BTW, I should have mentioned that in that picture it looks like there's hardly anything inside the Headspace. In fact, many of the components are on the other side of the circuit board.
Absolutely.
I posted this photo to show how easy it is to gain access to the dip switches and so change gain and loading.
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