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View Full Version : Mark Grant XLR Canare L4E6S Star Quad Balanced Cable



MartinT
24-02-2010, 23:33
I bought a pair of these to try out in place of my no-name OFC balanced cables between phono preamp and main preamp. My system is all-balanced XLR connected and uses mostly Kimber Select hybrid silver cables. However, several price hikes have made them eye-wateringly expensive so I decided to see how a good copper cable sounded.

The Canare cable that Mark Grant uses is well known in studio circles and features extremely good shielding with its star quad construction using eight cores. Connectors are Neutrik - the best.

Replacing my existing cables and not allowing for much burn-in, I heard an extra sparkle in the sound. Soundstage was decidedly wider and a little deeper and I could hear 'into' it more clearly. Midrange and vocals are transparent and very neutral. Dynamics are superb. The noise floor is vanishingly low. These cables give every impression of just letting the signal pass through unmolested.

For the price, I am impressed. It is harder to hear differences between balanced cables as this connection method gives so much clarity in the first place (provided your equipment uses true balanced circuitry) and yet I heard the differences quite clearly. Highly recommended.

Marco
24-02-2010, 23:43
Nice one, Martin :)

Should I bring down some G1000HDs on Saturday to test against your Kimber Selects?

Remember what happened to my ludicrously expensive Transparents, which the Mark Grants duly retired.... ;)

Marco.

MartinT
24-02-2010, 23:59
No good - all my cables are balanced XLR and I believe the G1000HDs are single-ended. Don't even try to compare the two, balanced sounds far superior in my system.

Anyway, aren't we playing with turntables? <rubs hands with glee> :)

Marco
25-02-2010, 00:05
No good - all my cables are balanced XLR and I believe the G1000HDs are single-ended. Don't even try to compare the two, balanced sounds far superior in my system.


Yes, good point! Might be worth a laugh though asking Mark to make up some balanced G1000HDs to compare them with the Kimbers ;)

Turntables? Oh yes indeedy! Steve W visited today and, erm, how shall I put it, 'quite liked' the Techy compared with his LP12... :eyebrows:

Btw, as an aside, how efficient are your Ushers and are they liable to be a tricky load for a valve amp?

Marco.

MartinT
25-02-2010, 01:10
how efficient are your Ushers and are they liable to be a tricky load for a valve amp?

Quite efficient, but they may be a bastard load especially as they have two bass drivers per side. Of course, the Chord doesn't even blink :)

Steve Toy
25-02-2010, 01:25
My Heco Celan 700 speakers have two drivers aside. My Copper amp (same as Marco's) doesn't blink. If they are ~89dB + and 6 to 8 ohm-ish the Copper amp shouldn't have a problem.

They are in a different league to my Hecos though.

The specs are as follows:

Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers

Technical Specification

3-way Floor standing 1.25" BeO dome tweeter and 5" BeO inverted dome mid, and 2x11" low woofer
Sensitivity 90dB @ 1watt/1m
nominal impedance 8 ohms
frequency response 22Hz - 40Khz (+/- 3dB)
power handling range60 - 300 watts
crossover frequencies 544Hz and 3.84 Khz
weight 123Kgs (inc base) (foookin' elll!)
dimensions (wxdxh) 36.5 cm x 89.5 cm x 140 cm

http://www.hiaudio.co.uk/UA/Be20.htm

Dave Cawley
25-02-2010, 08:16
In my personal experience the Ushers will work fine with a valve amp. I have used 2A3 to PP 300B no problem. But they are designed for high power amplifiers to get the dynamic range in a big USA rooms.

Dave

Marco
25-02-2010, 08:51
That's good enough for me, chaps... Then I may as well bring the Croft and copper amp down for a giggle :eyebrows:

Marco.

Steve Toy
25-02-2010, 10:12
You'll need the G1000HDs then as you can't plug XLRs into your amps.

leo
25-02-2010, 17:53
Keep us updated, be quite an interesting comparison copper valve amp against the Chord:)

Marco
25-02-2010, 18:12
Will do, Leo - looking forward to it :)

Marco.

leo
25-02-2010, 18:25
Will do, Leo - looking forward to it :)

Marco.

The Ushers can take lots of power but are not hard to drive, load wise shouldn't be a problem for the valve amp unless your wanting to blow the house roof off:lol:

DSJR
26-02-2010, 14:34
Marco, did you get a chance to chat to Mark G last weekend as threatened, about the XLR lead he made up for me. It's strong up top but my system can easily handle it 'cos it's so clean and like the 1000HD's, the clear bass extension and power is much appreciated..

Ooooh, what fun!!! :lol:

Wish I lived further north - Neil could come over and beat me up over some of the things I type here and Marco's Tannoys could blatter me into submission............

MartinT
26-02-2010, 15:30
Dave - tell me more. Did MG make up a special XLR cable using the 1000HD cable? That could sound quite different from the Canare version I have, although I didn't think there were enough cores in the 1000HD to use in balanced mode.

Marco
26-02-2010, 15:54
Marco, did you get a chance to chat to Mark G last weekend as threatened, about the XLR lead he made up for me. It's strong up top but my system can easily handle it 'cos it's so clean and like the 1000HD's, the clear bass extension and power is much appreciated..

Ooooh, what fun!!! :lol:

Wish I lived further north - Neil could come over and beat me up over some of the things I type here and Marco's Tannoys could blatter me into submission............

Hi Dave,

Ooops, soz, forgot about that mate! :doh:

We were probably too busy enjoying ourselves, eating drinking and tune-spinning..... ;)

I think Mark, erm, 'quite liked' my system, though, and the effect his cables had in the overall presentation - I don't think he realised just how good his cables were, which just proved how bloody deaf those balloons at WTF were!! :eyebrows:

Marco.

DSJR
26-02-2010, 16:55
Dave - tell me more. Did MG make up a special XLR cable using the 1000HD cable? That could sound quite different from the Canare version I have, although I didn't think there were enough cores in the 1000HD to use in balanced mode.

As you may know, Mark made up a set of 1000HD cables wired XLR to phono. This didn't work and confirmed what I thought might happen. I didn't want a refund, so bought a mains cable from him (tis good too :)) and wasn't sure what to do with the balance..

Mark came back to me, suggesting that the standard XLR lead may not be much better than the already good home-made Beldens (type 9272) I was using, but told me that he has some mil-spec silver plated copper twin-core cables he could send me on SOR. This he did and they've had plenty of use since.....

Being silver plated, albeit of a good gauge , I wasn't sure what to expect, to be honest. I find it does to the XLR - phono lead what the 1000HD cables do to a good standard phono - phono cable. The treble is pin-sharp but very clear with timbral differences in cymbals and treble compression laid bare and I suspect that passive speakers with nasty crossovers may react too much to its starkness. The mid is sublime in portrayal of detail and reverb, the wonderful Spendor imagery being shown in all its glory here. Little things in the mix seem to be in better proportion - a bit like upgrading one's CD player - the Micro just seems to have come into its own, just when I think it could be slipping. As for the bass..... Spendors have never been renowned for quality of bass, as the boxes were designed for best midrange performance, but in my setup, the bass is tight and VERY deep and tuneful, changing with ease from track to track and disc to disc..

If Mark puts these cables into production (they can also be wired as phono to phono as all twin-core plus screen mic cables can), they'll have posher plugs fitted I suspect and will retail for around £100. Compared with other clean and utterly clear cables of this nature, you'd have to spend a good few hundred, possibly more, to get this clarity..

I hope this helps. I don't think my system is so odd-ball that the above findings are at odds with what anyone else will find, except to say that some passive speakers driven hard by solid state amps may find the presentation a bit OTT, when it's really a hard driven amp into a harsh crossover that could be the problem - (I don't mean to knock 'em, but the little Heco Celan's at £500pr are perfect examples of a potentially good speaker totally spoiled by severe nasties at the crossover point).

MartinT
26-02-2010, 18:56
Thanks. Very interested in trying a pair. I wonder if he'd be prepared to make me up a set?

Spectral Morn
27-02-2010, 23:54
Marco, did you get a chance to chat to Mark G last weekend as threatened, about the XLR lead he made up for me. It's strong up top but my system can easily handle it 'cos it's so clean and like the 1000HD's, the clear bass extension and power is much appreciated..

Ooooh, what fun!!! :lol:

Wish I lived further north - Neil could come over and beat me up over some of the things I type here and Marco's Tannoys could blatter me into submission............

Dave

I find some of the things you type frustratingly vague and incomplete..but at no time would I wish to beat you up.


Regards D S D L

MartinT
02-03-2010, 19:57
Mark came back to me, suggesting that the standard XLR lead may not be much better than the already good home-made Beldens (type 9272) I was using, but told me that he has some mil-spec silver plated copper twin-core cables he could send me on SOR. This he did and they've had plenty of use since.....

I've now spoken with Mark Grant and he is making me up an XLR set from the same cable. I look forward to trying them against my expensive Kimbers.

Marco
02-03-2010, 21:55
Hi Leo,

Read the thread in the Blank Canvas about my trip to Martin's, where all is revealed :)

Marco.

Marco
02-03-2010, 21:57
I've now spoken with Mark Grant and he is making me up an XLR set from the same cable. I look forward to trying them against my expensive Kimbers.

Not *THIS* will be most interesting! ;)

What I would say is to give them a good chance and get used to the (likely) different presentation they will offer before making a definitive judgement on them, which I know you'll do anyway :)

Marco.

MartinT
08-03-2010, 18:36
Mark Grant silver XLR 'prototypes' received and currently burning-in (in preamp to power amp position). I'm resisting the temptation to listen too closely as I know how 'clanky' new cables can sound. Still, it sounds awfully nice from the study. More tomorrow...

DSJR
08-03-2010, 19:40
I didn't notice a difference as the hours went on, but my ears change daily..

I'm still getting a great sound at any volume I like..... :)

MartinT
09-03-2010, 19:20
The MGs have been on burn-in for 24 hours and I've had a good listen, swapping back and forth so that I have a good grasp of what they're doing.

The 1m MG cable is (I believe) silver plated copper cores teflon coated and using good quality Neutrik XLR connectors. Price is £inexpensive (I won't reveal his price to me in case he decides to go commercial with them).

They're up against a 1m Kimber Select KS-1121 hybrid silver/copper cable (silver for the signal and copper for the return), second from top of the Select range, using Switchcraft XLR connectors. They're priced at a cool £1,299.64 :eek:

I am listening to the preamp to power amp run as I can then compare both CD and LP playback.

Listening to the MGs now, the presentation and detail are fine with a good soundstage, wide frequency range and no obvious omissions. There is a very slight (and I mean barely noticeable) sheen to the sound - not exactly the typical silver brightness but something which is vaguely bothering me while I'm listening. Micro detail is present but I'm not hearing 'into' the soundstage quite as well as I'm used to. There is something going on with the deep bass, a slight lack of resolution which is affecting the definition of the note being struck. It's all very pleasant but I'm aware there's something missing.

Switching back to the Kimber I am surprised. Firstly, the sheen has gone, revealing a very deep soundstage with even finer micro-detail. Small lip sounds and other cues are everywhere in the music, natural rather than emphasised. Without listening as hard, I am hearing more. The biggest area of difference is in the bass. Deep bass now has more texture and is extended to subterranean levels. Music now sounds underpinned and more structural.

I will continue to put more hours on the MGs, although I think they've largely settled down now. They are good for the price, no doubt. What I've learned (re-learned if you like) is that I've stuck with Kimber over very many years for good reason, because they really are supreme. Outrageously, stupidly expensive - no doubt. But the best cables I know.

Marco
09-03-2010, 20:08
Nice one, Martin - interesting thoughts :)

The Kimber cable you're using is certainly very good - I could detect no issues with it when I was down, although neither could I with the G1000HD single-ended cables used in your system when the Croft and copper amp went in and performed rather admirably......

However, there were too many variables in that situation to accurately determine what effect the cables were having in the overall sonic and musical presentation.

Don't rule out a synergistic match with your Kimber speaker cables though, as that could be a significant contributory factor as to why you prefer the Select KS-1121 hybrids, overall ;)

Marco.

MartinT
09-03-2010, 21:13
The G100HDs are a different matter as I already know I like them. That's why I've ordered lengths for my single-ended needs (SUT to Phono pre as we heard, and Caiman DAC to Preamp). It just goes to show how different cores and fabrication make for unpredictable results.

Oh, and I absolutely agree with your observation that my use of Kimber interconnects and speaker cables made of the same basic material is very synergistic. That's why I mess with my system at my peril: I don't like upsetting that hard earned synergy.

Steve Toy
10-03-2010, 02:34
The 1m MG cable is (I believe) silver plated copper cores teflon coated and using good quality Neutrik XLR connectors. Price is £inexpensive (I won't reveal his price to me in case he decides to go commercial with them).



The emboldened part probably explains the shortcomings.

MartinT
10-03-2010, 07:16
Steve, are you suggesting that silver plate, rather than the true silver conductors of the Kimber, are to blame?

Marco
10-03-2010, 13:40
Based on my experience of cables using both types of conductors, Martin, it *could* be a significant factor :)

Marco.