Warm sounding Power amp

[Rob Tube]

Hi Guys, I am streaming music via usb, to a musical fidelity V90 dac, to a Nobsound ns-01P tube pre amp and then to a arcam Alpha 8 power amp.
I have the idea that my power amp is the weakest link, although my friend Chris (Lerxst) has a different system with a similar sound, we both have the Q Acoustics 2030 speakers.
I heard that some on this forum find the Arcam Alpha 8 Harsh, I don't have that idea but I think I am missing some oomph especially when you playing on a lower volume.
What would be a nice warm sounding budget power amp, All cabling are chord company interlink cables and speaker cables.

[wee tee cee]

behringer a500.

A big softie with lots of oomph for not too much dough!

[wee tee cee]

Some mark grant interconnects and van damme speaker wire may also help-chord stuff can be a bit up front.

[walpurgis]

Quad 303?

And I agree with Tony. Experimenting with cables can help.

[Lerxst]

Hi Rob,

Getting dissatified already? :brickwall:

I bet you had the same thought as I did when Tony mentioned cabling...

Chris

[Rob Tube]

Hi Chris, I was more thinking of replacing my power amp, I can sell the Arcam Alpha pre and power amp as a set, the pre amp hasn't been used since I have my little tube amp. For now I am only looking around, but the audio bug never stops, and I don't find the sound warm enough. so if someone is interested in a swap for a warm sounding poweramp with my Arcam set I will be interested.
I am very interested if that cable swap makes a big difference.

[hifinutt]

mmm never heard arcam described as harsh ever , heard a lovely arcam system recently and it was very natural . the owner has just upgraded higher up arcam tree , might be worth thinking about the integrated or the power amp . the chap is a really great guy

i also had several arcam products i.e p1 , c31 , a22 and they were never harsh

https://hifiwigwam.com/megastore/product/thinking-of-adoption-loving-home-sought-for-arcam-a38-and-p38/

[Rob Tube]

I just read it somewhere, I don't find the sound harsh, bit I think the Alpha 8 is a bit of a lightweight for the system, they compared the Alpha 8 with the alpha 10, the alpha 8 is 50 watts and the Q Acoustics are 6 ohm, as budget Hifi enthusiast you always try to improve the system a bit.

[Lerxst]

Hi Rob,

I don't think you have a bad amp there and it is on the warm side of neutral I think. It is a bit under under-powered maybe (40 or 50 wpc?) but Your 3050s are 6 ohm speakers and quite easy to drive. Your Nobsound / Arcam combo is not going to be harsh, surely?

I saw you posted another article about usb cables.

Maybe have a look at a good usb cable from laptop to dac first? Your nice cable was eaten by the dog or something, right? :doh:

Just a thought

[Lerxst]

Crossed lines there. Great minds...

[Rob Tube]

Yes I think my first thing will be a chord company silver plus cable, I found a remote for my Audirvana plus so I can leave the mackbook in the stereo cabinet with a short usb cable and change the music with my phone.

[agk]

Well seeing as how I'm in the mood for a punch up I'm going to say that silver cables are bad if your gear is too warm.

[walpurgis]

Well seeing as how I'm in the mood for a punch up I'm going to say that silver cables are bad if your gear is too warm.

The opposite I'd have thought. Cables with silver or silver plated cores seem to have a tendency to 'light things up' in my experience, so in a warm sounding system they may help the balance. However, where there's an existing tendency to leanness or brightness in a system, copper cored cables may seem better.

[agk]

Yeah I got that one wrong. Arse about face. Christmas booze again. Still it could be worse, I could be so old I struggle to hear the doorbell.

[Rob Tube]

You are absolutely right, so back to the drawing board, does anybody know copper core usb cables?

[agk]

In all seriousness Rob for me the speakers and pre are the weak areas at this level.

[Rob Tube]

Ouch that hurts, but thanks for being honest, I am aware it is a budget system, maybe in the future I am able to upgrade, but for now I have to do with the things I have and can do little upgrades.

[agk]

You've a good starting point there chap. Maybe look out for a passive pre in the new year such as the excellent Tisbury, cheap and good in the one box.

[Rob Tube]

I am talking here about minimal changes, I have an arcam alpha 8 pre amp but since I heard the Nobsound ns-01P the Arcam is redundant, the sound is so much better, now listening to delicate sounds of thunder from Pink Floyd that sounds really good. since I have the tube amp I don't want to go back, I bought this amp more as a test because I heard a tube amp at Cris's. I did a lot of overtime lately and it seems sometimes when you are tired that the music sounds less good, and sometimes you switch on the system and you think Yes, this is it. I will definitely have a look in more copper based wiring and the Tisbury amp and the behringer a500.
First I like to hear from Chris if the van Damme speaker cable makes a difference, I think he has a compareble system.

[Lerxst]

First I like to hear from Chris if the van Damme speaker cable makes a difference, I think he has a compareble system.

I'll let you know. It may be a better first step than replacing half your gear as someone, rather indecently, suggested.

[wee tee cee]

Any members near you that could pop across with wires boxes to let you try before you buy?

Arcam stuff is really good, dont leap before you have looked!

[Rob Tube]

Hi Tony, that is very good advice, I am just looking for options, I was very surprised the first time when I bought the chord speaker cable what a difference it made in the sound, Chris ordered the van Damme cable when he has that installed I will hop around, I have seen some reviews that say it makes the speakers sound warmer. It is not that I am desperate to change my equipment, but I am always looking to update my system, then I say this is it no more changes, and after a while you start hearing little thing and then you start thinking again what you can change to improve the system, it is a never-ending story, but I think that is the fun of it. I think when someone says here is 30000 buy a system that is ready to go it wouldn't be as much fun as doing a little tweak at a time. Don't get me wrong if I would be in the position to spend that much on a system I probably would but unfortunately there are sometimes more important things in life.

[Primalsea]

How close are your speakers to the walls? As you have small bookshelf speakers they will need to be close to the back wall to reinforce the bass, overwise they could sound a little light. There might be a few things you could do with placement first before you buy anything.

[Rob Tube]

Hi Paul they are floor standing speakers and they are about 20 cm from the wall

[Primalsea]

Hi Paul they are floor standing speakers and they are about 20 cm from the wall

Have I missed something? In the first post you said that you have the 2030s. I googled these and they came up as bookshelf speakers.

[agk]

2050 maybe?

[walpurgis]

I'm thinking that if two systems using same model speakers are producing a similar sound that you describe as "missing some oomph", it might be that trying different speakers could help. I note that the 2030's are quoted as having a 64Hz low end cut off, which means they are likely rolling off well above that. This may account for the perceived lack of 'wellie'.

[Edward]

Rob, judging from a post that your friend Chris made your speakers are the Q Acoustics 3050 which are floor standers.

I would definitely recommend you try out different things in your system to see what differences stuff makes. Try to find AoS members near you who are willing. Pity you are not near me as I have various things you could try (cables, pres, amps, speakers etc). Also try shops like Richer Audio and see if they will do a home loan. Many shops do. Chord I believe have a loan system for their cables. Try out one thing at a time.

Couple of quick questions. What are the music files you are streaming to your DAC? Make sure they are lossless. Also have you tried tweaking your speaker placement. You may be surprised how much difference small movements can make - but a lot depends on your room acoustics.

HiFi is a journey not a destination. :)

[Rob Tube]

Sorry guys, must have been a typo, they are the 3050’s and I stream flacs and lossles apple files. Some 24 bits some 16 bits. Unfortunately i am bound to the living room that I have to share with teo teenagers and two huskies, so not ideal, as I do shiftwork it gives me some time during the week to have a lsten in piece.

[swampy]

Have you considered tube rolling ?

Also most tube gear from china tend to use basic coupling caps of the smallest value they can get away with such as wima mk. Sometimes changing these for a better quality one and slightly larger value can increase the bottom end extension.

I do find it amusing that we 'tone control' by changing cables and parts these days when we used to have tone controls on the amp. Music studios and the pro audio sector never got rid of their EQ tools like the hifi industry :)

I like the tone controls on my yamaha AS-1000.

[wee tee cee]

Just out of interest what the room like. If you clap your hands is it bright or damped.

Working shifts means you can try daft stuff whilst everyone else is out.

Try placing the duvet on the floor ,might dampen some reflections out.

My wife came home one time I had a towel drying rack behind my listening position......she just shook her head in disgust!

[agk]

The old room tuning ploy eh? Show her the attached (borrowed) picture, she got off lightly!

[Haselsh1]

One of the things I have always noticed since first getting into hi-fi in 1979 is that stand mount loudspeakers lack the low frequency welly and warmth of floorstanders. I have never yet found a pair of standmounts that are anywhere near as good as floorstanders with regard to large scale sound.

[walpurgis]

I have never yet found a pair of standmounts that are anywhere near as good as floorstanders with regard to large scale sound.[/FONT]

IMF ALS40?

[Rob Tube]

Ha ha, I have a wooden floor it is quite damped, it is quite a small room, i am 4 days off from tomorrow, I'll see igf I can experiment a little.

[Rob Tube]

Yes I changed the chinese tubes for jj's and I changed them again for jj ecc803 longplate gold pin tubes

[struth]

i would suggest having a get together at yours and get folk to bring something each to try. cheap way to test things. it might be a simple change of cable, or unit..wouldnt call q's overly bright but maybe on warm side for the cables your using

[struth]

buy some of this and put plugs on.. excellent speaker cable for very little

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fisual-Super-Pearl-2-5mm-Speaker-Cable-White-Price-Per-Metre/381716054384?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[smithie]

The old room tuning ploy eh? Show her the attached (borrowed) picture, she got off lightly!

:lol::lol::lol: that takes me back,had plenty a sitting room looking like that:D

[Edward]

:lol::lol::lol: that takes me back,had plenty a sitting room looking like that:D

But there does not seem to be anywhere to actually sit. :scratch:

[Simon_LDT]

I've had Arcam P1's for 3 years now and don't find them harsh at all. The sound is very neutral to me and if anything a little laid back. I was also using the matching C31 pre which is good but when I tried a passive (Tisbury) I found the sound to open up more. I've since upgraded to a custom built passive which was built for me by Jez Arkless and it has given me so much more depth I found it hard to believe just how much better it is over the Tisbury.

I also use copper cables (Mark Grant HDX1) and Van Damme blue 4mm speaker wire. I've also used Klotz MC5000 with MS audio plugs which are just as good as the HDX1. At this level, definitely don't waste money on more cables - put it towards source/pre/power/speakers. I've tried quite a few different cables in the range of around £20-£60 and if I'm being honest couldn't hear a difference between them. If I had that cash again, I'd have saved it to put towards something else.

Biggest upgrade in sound for me was switching speakers, followed by power amp/s and then pre-amp. I've still yet to experiment with phono stages though.

[wee tee cee]

Cardboard elephant ears are also a no go.....could end up getting you sectioned.

Get a few of the troops round with wires and boxes-usually just costs a few sticky buns and tea and coffee.

If it goes on longer a few bottles can get sunk and you musical tastes will inevitably widen-have a pad and pen at the ready!

There is a fine network at this end of the island....made some great friends/discovered music and really travelled down the music road helped by others.

Folks on here are keen to help and dont want you going up the many blind alleys in this wee hobby.

Enjoy yer tunes and more importantly trust your ears!!!

[Primalsea]

Sorry guys, must have been a typo, they are the 3050’s and I stream flacs and lossles apple files. Some 24 bits some 16 bits. Unfortunately i am bound to the living room that I have to share with teo teenagers and two huskies, so not ideal, as I do shiftwork it gives me some time during the week to have a lsten in piece.

Just as an aside, if you can train your Huskies to lay in each corner behind your speakers they will make great diffusers and should tidy up the imaging a little.

Sometimes just simple things can make the difference. A while ago I changed the feet on my speaker stands from silicone to metal, so that the speakers where coupled to the floor instead of isolated and this made quite a big differnce. Always worth having a play arounda and dont rule anything out as sometimes the issue can be from something that you think is fine.

[smithie]

But there does not seem to be anywhere to actually sit. :scratch:

that was just a small hiccup...it was all about the modding...who cared how it sounded:lol::lol::lol:

[Rob Tube]

I found a big part of the solution, those Q Acoustics 3050 come with stabilisers at the front so they lean a bit backwards, this way they weren't very stable so I ordered another set stabilisers and placed then at the back, but the speakers supposed to lean a bit backwards, I adjusted the spikes at the front and now they sound a lot better.

[Lawrence001]

I'm not aware there was an 8 pre, just an integrated (8 or 8r with remote) and a power amp (8p). I suspect you are using the integrated as a pre. If there is some concern about the power amp output, I think you might benefit from biamping the 8 and 8p, assuming the speakers have 2 pairs of terminals. You're probably best off taking the 8 to the tweeters (though it's worth trying both ways). Just make sure you remove the links between the speaker sockets or you WILL blow the amps. The protection circuits don't guard against biamp shorting.

[Rob Tube]

Hi Lawrence, you are spot on and thank you for the tip, I bi wired the speakers , I never beamped the amps, I heard the tube amp at my mate Chris and loved that sound straight away. This is why I bought the Chinese Nobsound NS-01P and the sound was so much better than using the Arcam 8 (integrated) amp as pre-amp. although they say that pre-amp might be the weakest link, judging by my ears, the pre-amp sounds better then the Arcam. When I get the chance I will dive more in the tube amp world and see if I can find a better tube amp, but I love the tube sound.

[Lerxst]

Interesting idea.

[walpurgis]

I love the tube sound.

Valves old chap, valves! :D Americans use 'tubes', Londoners travel on them.

I'm unconvinced by the argument some have about valves sounding better or 'nicer' than solid state. Both can sound very fine and well designed amplifiers of either type should sound very similar, if not identical in a perfect world.

[Macca]

Valves old chap, valves! :D Americans use 'tubes', Londoners travel on them.

I'm unconvinced by the argument some have about valves sounding better or 'nicer' than solid state. Both can sound very fine and well designed amplifiers of either type should sound very similar, if not identical in a perfect world.

Very true - if the amp is a really good one you won't be able to tell from just listening if it is using valves or transistors.

[Rob Tube]

Sorry Geoff, In dutch they are called Buizen, that is the exact translation to tubes that is actually why I called them tubes, but I will keep it in mind valves it is.
It is still very strange that the Chinese valve amp straight away was sounding so much better than the integrated Arcam 8r that I uses as a pre-amp.
All instruments came straight away alive, you can hear people hitting the guitar strings or hear the stroke of the brush on a drum the dynamic is way better, you wouldn't expect that of a cheap Chinese amp, Chris has a different amp but he has exactly the same result. I even took my amp over to him and weren't able to hear much difference between the two amps. I think you need to have quite a good pre-amp to reach the same sound quality.

[Lerxst]

OK Rob. Update for you. I connected up the van Damme Blue 2 x 2.5 mm, not bi-wired. It'll take a bit of listening to come to a final judgement but my first impression over the Chord C-series is that they have a better bass reach and detail - timpani have a nice thud, even at low volume, which is cool. Cymbals are laid back slightly, but not too badly. So the sound is a bit "bigger" and warmer. Is it a better cable? Dunno. Certainly a different character - not tiring at all.

[Rob Tube]

Hi Chris that sounds good, I have to come around one of these days to listen.

[Lerxst]

But...they are nice freshly-bared wires. The others needed a clean really.

[Lerxst]

I have 2 x 5m lengths - I will bring it to MK and you can try it in the new year.

[Rob Tube]

Thanks Chris, I pm'd you my availability

[James the Albarry lover]

I've been using my monster interlink 400s for a while now and the difference in warmth compared to my chord company c-lines is shocking