View Full Version : Selling Naim pre amps - snaio or no snaic?
Mikeandvan
18-12-2017, 21:38
Just sold a Naim nac 72 to some knob end on Ebay, he has opened a case against me because I didn't include the snaic lead with his pre amp. My belief is that Naim pre amps do not come with any leads, it is the power amps which come with the snaic leads, as I sold my power amp in another auction I included the snaic and mains lead with this, so obviously I had none to include with the 72, I advertised it as just the amp alone (with blanking plug), made no mention of a snaic, and when I advertised the power amp I stated includes snaic and mains lead. This guy is an absolute arse. But anyway, I'd always thought protocol with Naim amps was to include the snaic with the power amp, not the pre, anybody had experience of this?
walpurgis
18-12-2017, 21:43
It's not an integral part of the item. If it wasn't mentioned in the description, then it's not part of the sale and he should have no expectation of receiving one. SNAIC's are offered as separate items on ebay anyway.
Precisely. It's a case of 'tough titty' for the ebay tosser. Offer him this: a nice two-fingered salute :upyours:
Marco.
Mikeandvan
18-12-2017, 22:28
I just asked on the Naim forum, and its very clear that Snaics come with the power amps rather the pre. Just hope Ebay see it my way, I'll keep you informed. Ebay, the opera.
vintage60
19-12-2017, 00:36
I’ve bought and sold several Naim pre and powers and always had the snaic with the power. That was confirmed to me by several current and past Naim dealers as being the protocol. The pre should only have a blanking plug and remote if it one of the newer ones
Be prepared for this not to go your way Mike. Ebay offers the biggest marketplace there is but little protection against buyers with unrealistic expectations (I'm being nice here !).
I hope I'm very much wrong in this case of course. Good luck !
hifi_dave
19-12-2017, 10:05
The power amps come with SNAIC and not the pre.
I sold a power-amp to a customer and after 18 months he came back to me complaining that the lead i supplied with it, had the wrong colour label on it and was affecting the performance. Ah, the joys of Naim.
RothwellAudio
19-12-2017, 10:23
...he has opened a case against me because I didn't include the snaic lead with his pre amp...This guy is an absolute arse.
Yes, there are always a few customers with wildly unrealistic expectations and demands. A pain.
Be prepared for this not to go your way Mike. Ebay offers the biggest marketplace there is but little protection against buyers with unrealistic expectations (I'm being nice here !).
Yes, ebay's default position always seems to be that the seller is in the wrong and it's extremely difficult to deal with them. To make things worse, they have all the power because they control the money. It can be very frustrating.
Hope you win this one.
Offer the man a full refund of the purchase price, if he ships it back to you at his own expense, and you do not refund the original shipping. That is a very common practice on eBay. Unless you said you would pay for return shipping, it’s understood that you do not. Offering him a refund because he read your description wrong is amicable. This will go a long way towards appeasing the EBay gods. And chances are if he is faced with return shipping he will back down, and settle for leaving you bad feedback. Which you can contest later.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
go round to his home and beat him remorselessly:eyebrows: only joking... if cable was not included in sale then it wasnt included. in saying that you would have to have said that if it was in picture.
speedracer
19-12-2017, 11:49
I sell a few things on ebay from time to time and I agree it can be a lottery when a buyer with unrealistic expectations raises an issue, whether you are in the right or not. Not long ago I sold a marble coffee table for my parents and the buyer came to Poole to collect from over Hastings way, even hired a van too. He was nice as pie during the collection but once home he raised a dispute saying it was not real marble, because the underside hadn't been polished he thought it was concrete! Anyway I scanned the original receipt which clearly stated it was marble and to my surprise I won the case, so ebay can and do side with sellers.
It sounds like you did nothing wrong and as the cable wasn't a part of the listing I would hope ebay will do the right thing and side with you on this.
Mikeandvan
19-12-2017, 12:51
go round to his home and beat him remorselessly:eyebrows: only joking... if cable was not included in sale then it wasnt included. in saying that you would have to have said that if it was in picture.
That was my first instinct, but he lives abroad.
Mikeandvan
19-12-2017, 12:53
Offer the man a full refund of the purchase price, if he ships it back to you at his own expense, and you do not refund the original shipping. That is a very common practice on eBay. Unless you said you would pay for return shipping, it’s understood that you do not. Offering him a refund because he read your description wrong is amicable. This will go a long way towards appeasing the EBay gods. And chances are if he is faced with return shipping he will back down, and settle for leaving you bad feedback. Which you can contest later.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yeh, that's an option, but the guy doesn't reply to my messages, I think Ebay makes seller pay return and original postage these days anyway.
Yeh, that's an option, but the guy doesn't reply to my messages, I think Ebay makes seller pay return and original postage these days anyway.
If he is the one not responding to messages, that makes him the bad guy to the EBay arbiters. They want more than anything for people to work things out, so if he is causing the issue let him take the heat. Perhaps he will just go away? He may not be happy, but he is definitely in the wrong. Even he should see that? As far as the shipping fees, I speak from previous experiences, but you may be right they are constantly changing their polices. Unless he can prove you sold him defective or incorrect items, I don’t see you being responsible for shipping. But that’s just me! Good luck with it, hopefully he will just go away.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Ninanina
19-12-2017, 19:56
I see he has already left you negative feedback Mike, nightmare.. :doh:
I would hold firm with eBay as you made no mention of it including the cable, only the blanking plug, and as everyone else is saying the cable came with the power and not the pre
I definitely would not get him to return it to you and make sure eBay removes the negative feedback as well, they are normally pretty good especially as there was no mention of it including the cable
Mikeandvan
19-12-2017, 23:24
I see he has already left you negative feedback Mike, nightmare.. :doh:
I would hold firm with eBay as you made no mention of it including the cable, only the blanking plug, and as everyone else is saying the cable came with the power and not the pre
I definitely would not get him to return it to you and make sure eBay removes the negative feedback as well, they are normally pretty good especially as there was no mention of it including the cable
Thanks Nina, I also have in my favour the fact that at the same time I sold a Nap 140 and stated in the description snaic and mains lead included. I can point Ebay towards info on the Naim forum stating what accessories come with what product, and pre amps never come with any cables, but power amps always have Snaics, its pretty clear really. But as others have said be prepared to take a hit, as Ebay and Paypal both seem to want to make Ebay as idiot proof as possible. I guess that's why the fees are so high. There was a guy on another forum who bought a pair of expensive speakers in what was clearly a scam, he seemed unconcerned as he was sure Paypal would refund him, they did.
Mikeandvan
19-12-2017, 23:28
If he is the one not responding to messages, that makes him the bad guy to the EBay arbiters. They want more than anything for people to work things out, so if he is causing the issue let him take the heat. Perhaps he will just go away? He may not be happy, but he is definitely in the wrong. Even he should see that? As far as the shipping fees, I speak from previous experiences, but you may be right they are constantly changing their polices. Unless he can prove you sold him defective or incorrect items, I don’t see you being responsible for shipping. But that’s just me! Good luck with it, hopefully he will just go away.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I don't know what he wants as he doesn't respond, is it money off? Who knows, I'm guessing the 72 didn't live up to his expectations? He could get a flashback Snaic for £30! Thing is once a case is open only buyer or ebay can close it, and the money he paid for the amp is on hold, just as well I don't need it for the kids pressies at xmas! Oh hang on, I don't have kids.
walpurgis
19-12-2017, 23:32
I'd keep pestering eBay personally. Drum the facts into them! Say you need a prompt resolution.
Have you spoken to them by phone? I've found them amenable and willing to listen to sense.
Light Dependant Resistor
20-12-2017, 02:14
I sell a few things on ebay from time to time and I agree it can be a lottery when a buyer with unrealistic expectations raises an issue, whether you are in the right or not. Not long ago I sold a marble coffee table for my parents and the buyer came to Poole to collect from over Hastings way, even hired a van too. He was nice as pie during the collection but once home he raised a dispute saying it was not real marble, because the underside hadn't been polished he thought it was concrete! Anyway I scanned the original receipt which clearly stated it was marble and to my surprise I won the case, so ebay can and do side with sellers.
It sounds like you did nothing wrong and as the cable wasn't a part of the listing I would hope ebay will do the right thing and side with you on this.
Brook is right, if the cable was not part of the listing then the cable was not being sold. end of story.
He is entitled to send the goods back to you and receive a refund, The procedure is he has to send the goods to you
(and best if this is done with tracked shipping) once you have received the matter is then closed in that order.
As for negative feedback and lack of replies it does not bode well. Be assured eBay equally support you, in such cases
just keep in touch with them to advise them of the effort you are making to do the right thing.
Primalsea
20-12-2017, 08:44
There has been some horror stories of overseas buyers iniating a claim and Ebay refuning them using the sellers Paypal account. I don’t know if this is still possible these days since Paypal and Ebay split. Did you get paid by Paypal?
If you haven’t already you may want to preempt the matter by phoning Ebay and eplaining the situation and then following up with an email with all the evidence that you have to hand that the leads are not supplied with the preamp. I have done this in the past and Ebay have been very helpful once I proved that the buyer was in the wrong. However, it can depend on whether or not you get a wally in charge of you case.
The crow
20-12-2017, 09:39
Don't get me started on the subject of Paypal, this September I brought a still boxed REGA RSD 2017 TURNTABLE (LIMITED EDITION) for £300.00 from a chap on evil bay, after several days and numerous emails to the seller asking when I could collect my much anticipated vinyl spinner, he informed me that he could not transfer his funds from his paypal account to his personal account. Two weeks later it turns out that paypal can hold on to your money for up to 180 days in case of disputes, the seller would not release the Rega until the funds were in his personal account so we agreed that he would cancel the purchase and refund my money and I would go and collect the Rega and pay cash . Now paypal are holding my money for 180 days and Im down £300 until April 2018 with no Turntable and in the dog house for spending £300. with nothing to show for it and Christmas looming.
Rant over Merry Christmas guys.
Simon_LDT
20-12-2017, 13:24
Don't get me started on the subject of Paypal, this September I brought a still boxed REGA RSD 2017 TURNTABLE (LIMITED EDITION) for £300.00 from a chap on evil bay, after several days and numerous emails to the seller asking when I could collect my much anticipated vinyl spinner, he informed me that he could not transfer his funds from his paypal account to his personal account. Two weeks later it turns out that paypal can hold on to your money for up to 180 days in case of disputes, the seller would not release the Rega until the funds were in his personal account so we agreed that he would cancel the purchase and refund my money and I would go and collect the Rega and pay cash . Now paypal are holding my money for 180 days and Im down £300 until April 2018 with no Turntable and in the dog house for spending £300. with nothing to show for it and Christmas looming.
Rant over Merry Christmas guys.
Something doesn't seem right there. There is no way Paypal hold money for 180 days. As far as I recall, the 180 days is for a buyer to make a claim within that time, so it's a bit like a 6 month warranty. Whenever Paypal have held funds in the past it has only been for a few weeks max (usually by the time the buyer has got the item and left feedback). Have you pestered them on the phone about this? A ''refund'' should not take 180 days to clear.
Zoidburg
20-12-2017, 14:56
Yeh, that's an option, but the guy doesn't reply to my messages, I think Ebay makes seller pay return and original postage these days anyway.
Mike,
Is that one of those vicious dangerous pit-bull-type dogs in your profile picture?
Mikeandvan
20-12-2017, 20:43
Mike,
Is that one of those vicious dangerous pit-bull-type dogs in your profile picture?
Yes, she's been known to lick people to death.
Zoidburg
20-12-2017, 21:07
Yes, she's been known to lick people to death.I've got one as well :-) Brilliant dogs.
Ps Sorry for the thread hijacking. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/eb502455ba99949f75bcdd20f74d99ac.jpg
Sent from my CUBOT CHEETAH 2 using Tapatalk
Mikeandvan
21-12-2017, 23:48
I've got one as well :-) Brilliant dogs.
Ps Sorry for the thread hijacking. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/eb502455ba99949f75bcdd20f74d99ac.jpg
Sent from my CUBOT CHEETAH 2 using Tapatalk
Oh lovely, he's got the same spots on his skin than mine (female).
Mikeandvan
21-12-2017, 23:51
The guy finally replied to my messages today, and his tone is now completely different, he's conceded that snaics are not usually sold with pre amps, and apologised, obviously not the type to jump the gun........
walpurgis
21-12-2017, 23:52
Ah. Good result.
Mikeandvan
22-12-2017, 21:05
Paypal account back in order, feedback revised. Phew. I blame his French hot headedness.
Paypal account back in order, feedback revised. Phew. I blame his French hot headedness.
Nah, pat yourself on the back for handling it well.
I've got one as well :-) Brilliant dogs.
Ps Sorry for the thread hijacking. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/eb502455ba99949f75bcdd20f74d99ac.jpg
Sent from my CUBOT CHEETAH 2 using Tapatalk
With the right owner and a loving family they are awesome, but they have immense power that needs to be respected. Staffies are just all round lovely dogs though, and bomb proof. One of my favourite breeds.
Mikeandvan
24-12-2017, 18:57
More Ebay woe!! A different buyer has come back to me with the following message about some Naim 322 MM phono boards I sold, these worked fine in my 72 for years. Here's his message, can anybody tell what the issue might be?
'Your package arrived safely and well wrapped, and I installed the phono boards this evening.
There was no problem installing them but when I switched the amp on with volume set to zero and phono selected I could hear a loud, repeating clicking sound.
I raised the volume a fraction and the sound became very loud, like a repeated knocking.
Checked the terminals, and everything was connected as it should be. When I removed the phono boards and turned the amp back on, the sound was gone and everything was normal. Tried it again, switching the cards, but exactly the same clicking sound.
No music could be heard when connected to the turntable, just the clicking/banging.
I've attached photos of the cards as they were installed just now.'
walpurgis
24-12-2017, 19:02
Maybe he has a dodgy set and wants to send you those as 'returns'. Did you mark yours at all.
Mikeandvan
24-12-2017, 19:04
Maybe he has a dodgy set and wants to send you those as 'returns'. Did you mark yours at all.
Did I mark them? No! Could the issue be elsewhere? As the cards worked fine for years.
Edit post, mine had a green felt tip mark on each card, and solder marks in the middle where they were serviced, I have very clear pics on ebay.
walpurgis
24-12-2017, 19:16
I have very clear pics on ebay.
Ah. Should be OK then.
In later 72s the second set of BNC inputs were configured as a line level - a couple of links had to be cut on the circuit board to make it back into a phono input.
Mikeandvan
24-12-2017, 20:52
In later 72s the second set of BNC inputs were configured as a line level - a couple of links had to be cut on the circuit board to make it back into a phono input.
a-ha, that might be it, but I'm guessing he's using the first set 'phono' input rather than aux.
I can’t remember, but both inputs may have been wired in this way. The jumper wires are just by where the boards plug in.
Mikeandvan
24-12-2017, 22:42
I can’t remember, but both inputs may have been wired in this way. The jumper wires are just by where the boards plug in.
Thanks, this must be the cause.
They are about 8mm long and on the top surface of the mother board. They just need to be snipped and bent out of the way.
Mikeandvan
24-12-2017, 23:41
They are about 8mm long and on the top surface of the mother board. They just need to be snipped and bent out of the way.
Thanks, he's gonna bring it to his local Naim dealer.
Mikeandvan
25-12-2017, 11:24
They are about 8mm long and on the top surface of the mother board. They just need to be snipped and bent out of the way.
He's 'had a look on forums' and has bitten the bullet and snipped the jumper wires himself! And is more than happy with the result! He bought the amp new in 1992, and this is the first time he's played vinyl through it, so CD = dead, vinyl = just goes on and on!
MikeMusic
25-12-2017, 17:09
No matter how you set these things up someone can find a way to mess it up.
Great to hear both sorted
He's 'had a look on forums' and has bitten the bullet and snipped the jumper wires himself! And is more than happy with the result!
Jolly good, my bill is in the post ;).
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.