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View Full Version : I've just sold 3000 CDs - and i don't care!!



Chunky70
12-12-2017, 11:49
Well i've finally done it, i've sold my entire cd collection, something i've been thinking about for awhile. Phoned up Tom Fisher of Rat Records in London and he came all the way up to Scotland to have a look.
He was impressed with the variety and condition so took the whole lot!! I have everything as flac on the hard drive (backed up of course) and what i don't have can be streamed on spotify as i can't tell the differance between flac and spotify anyway.
I thought i was going to be upset about letting it go but strangely i don't give a monkey's. Quite liberating actually not being fettered to physical media anymore!!
Has anyone else done this recently? How did you feel about letting it go? Are you wedded to your physical collection? Could you never let it go?

brian2957
12-12-2017, 11:53
I use Spotify too Iain and I'm quite happy with it . I have around 500 CDs in plastic boxes in the loft ( taking up room ) . I will probably sell them soon :)

Yomanze
12-12-2017, 11:58
Well i've finally done it, i've sold my entire cd collection, something i've been thinking about for awhile. Phoned up Tom Fisher of Rat Records in London and he came all the way up to Scotland to have a look.
He was impressed with the variety and condition so took the whole lot!! I have everything as flac on the hard drive (backed up of course) and what i don't have can be streamed on spotify as i can't tell the differance between flac and spotify anyway.
I thought i was going to be upset about letting it go but strangely i don't give a monkey's. Quite liberating actually not being fettered to physical media anymore!!
Has anyone else done this recently? How did you feel about letting it go? Are you wedded to your physical collection? Could you never let it go?

Back it up twice...!

Chunky70
12-12-2017, 12:00
I use Spotify too Ian and I'm quite happy with it . I have around 500 CDs in plastic boxes in the loft ( taking up room ) . I will probably sell them soon :)

If you ever get round to selling them Brian i recommend Tom at Rat Records. What a brilliant guy, really friendly and pays a fair price. He has a daughter at Glasgow Uni so is always up in our neck of the woods.

Pieoftheday
12-12-2017, 12:02
I've ripped all mine to flac,but have kept them all.at some point I'd like a CD player and go back to using them

Chunky70
12-12-2017, 12:02
Back it up twice...!

Your right Neil. Good advice.:)

Chunky70
12-12-2017, 12:09
I've ripped all mine to flac,but have kept them all.at some point I'd like a CD player and go back to using them

Why is that James? Do you think cd's sound better?

brian2957
12-12-2017, 12:09
If you ever get round to selling them Brian i recommend Tom at Rat Records. What a brilliant guy, really friendly and pays a fair price. He has a daughter at Glasgow Uni so is always up in our neck of the woods.

Nice one Iain , I'm only half an hour from Glasgow University :)

Pieoftheday
12-12-2017, 12:14
Why is that James? Do you think cd's sound better?

No I'm happy with the sound, I suppose I miss not using an actual disc, this is the second time I've had a file based set up, and i seem to end up listening a lot less

Chunky70
12-12-2017, 12:17
No I'm happy with the sound, I suppose I miss not using an actual disc, this is the second time I've had a file based set up, and i seem to end up listening a lot less

I'm the opposite. CD bought, CD ripped, CD never played again. I find it interesting that there will always be people that find putting something physical on as part of the whole experiance.

Clive
12-12-2017, 12:22
You might be well advised not to broadcast that you have the rips....but not the CDs.

Pieoftheday
12-12-2017, 12:23
It's certainly convenient been able to access everything via an app on the tablet and can't fault flac, I suppose if I do go back to CDs I might find I've become lazy and having to get up from the sofa might seem a ridiculous idea:lol:

Chunky70
12-12-2017, 12:29
You might be well advised not to broadcast that you have the rips....but not the CDs.

Jeez....never thought about that Clive! Am i now officially a criminal?

struth
12-12-2017, 12:31
Jeez....never thought about that Clive! Am i now officially a criminal?

only if they catch you:D

Chunky70
12-12-2017, 12:33
only if they catch you:D

It's an impossible law to police, that's for sure!

Clive
12-12-2017, 12:41
Imagine all the music lovers in jail.....that would be around what, 20m in the UK? It just seems wise to keep your head down, that's all.

jandl100
12-12-2017, 12:41
I've been Spotify streaming for a couple of years and I've had a good CD clearout recently.
Probably about 500 gone to Oxfam charity shop, leaving me with about 2000 I guess..

Must admit I'm a bit wary of dumping the whole lot even though I don't play them now.
Not sure why :scratch: but who knows what the future will bring!
I guess it's that a physical collection is not dependent on anyone else's whim.

Chunky70
12-12-2017, 12:47
I've been Spotify streaming for a couple of years and I've had a good CD clearout recently.
Probably about 500 gone to Oxfam charity shop, leaving me with about 2000 I guess..

Must admit I'm a bit wary of dumping the whole lot even though I don't play them now.
Not sure why :scratch: but who knows what the future will bring!
I guess it's that a physical collection is not dependent on anyone else's whim.

I felt like that for a while Jerry but now there gone i feel good about it!

Pieoftheday
12-12-2017, 12:48
I guess it's that a physical collection is not dependent on anyone else's whim.[/QUOTE]

Or tinternet!! I can still access my music when the internet goes down, it just buggers things up for a bit

Chunky70
12-12-2017, 12:55
Imagine all the music lovers in jail.....that would be around what, 20m in the UK? It just seems wise to keep your head down, that's all.

:sofa:

Audio Al
12-12-2017, 12:57
All you need now is a priest to splash some holly water on you and you will then be cleansed :)

Macca
12-12-2017, 13:00
All you need noe is a priest to splash some holly water on you and you will then be cleansed :)

Holly Willoughby's water? I've heard that's supposed to be good.

Haselsh1
12-12-2017, 14:39
You might be well advised not to broadcast that you have the rips....but not the CDs.

:thumbsup:

Sherwood
12-12-2017, 15:39
I have also ripped all my cds to flac: probably about the same number or even more. However, I understand the law allows you to do this for personal use so long as you retain ownership of the original cds. That is why I have kept my original cds even though I will probably never play them again. I would be a bit wary of advertising your sale for fear that the copyright police may make a dawn raid on your house!

Geoff

Sherwood
12-12-2017, 16:32
It's an impossible law to police, that's for sure!

It is certainly difficult if the crime is undetected and unreported. May be easier to get a conviction with a confession though! :eyebrows:

Macca
12-12-2017, 16:56
I have also ripped all my cds to flac: probably about the same number or even more. However, I understand the law allows you to do this for personal use so long as you retain ownership of the original cds.

Geoff

That's not correct. It illegal (in the UK) to make copies for personal use, crazy as that seems.

Pieoftheday
12-12-2017, 17:21
That's not correct. It illegal (in the UK) to make copies for personal use, crazy as that seems.

Really Martin? Blimey that does seem.barking!! So all of us that have ripped our cds are potentially wrongns?

struth
12-12-2017, 17:29
dont think its been tested with someone who has the cds. i doubt they would be done

Macca
12-12-2017, 17:45
dont think its been tested with someone who has the cds. i doubt they would be done

There have not been any prosecutions but the law remains since any slackening of it would be seen as a step towards legalising software piracy, or at least making it more acceptable.

Sherwood
12-12-2017, 18:17
That's not correct. It illegal (in the UK) to make copies for personal use, crazy as that seems.

You are correct in that the provision for personal back-ups was reversed in UK law recently.. As I understand it, ripping for personal use under "fair use" terms remains legal in the USA. However, I doubt if any case brought in the UK would succeed if the party could prove that they retained ownership of the original cds and had not been sharing files.

Personally, I support copyright protection for artists. However, I do think it is reasonable to rip a purchased cd for personal use in a more convenient format so long as the cd remains in your ownership.

Geoff

Pieoftheday
12-12-2017, 18:35
Reminds me of the early 80s when we were told home taping is killing music, so djs would talk all over a track so you wouldnt want to tape it, i didnt even want to listen to the radio show and turned off

Chunky70
12-12-2017, 19:01
This is something that never crossed my mind. I've never downloaded anything illegal in my life and the cd's were bought by me. How can they make the distinction between the cd and the flac rip when i've already paid for it?

Pieoftheday
12-12-2017, 19:06
This is something that never crossed my mind. I've never downloaded anything illegal in my life and the cd's were bought by me. How can they make the distinction between the cd and the flac rip when i've already paid for it?

I would guess if you kept the cds not much could be done, proof of ownership. Has there ever been a case in court? Id be suprised but the world is bonkers these days

Sherwood
12-12-2017, 19:13
This is something that never crossed my mind. I've never downloaded anything illegal in my life and the cd's were bought by me. How can they make the distinction between the cd and the flac rip when i've already paid for it?

I think the main issue is that having sold the cds so are playing files that you no longer "own".

Geoff

montesquieu
12-12-2017, 22:16
Back it up twice...!

Yes, and with a backup product that will check and correct for bit rot. You know how some digital photos start to disappear in patches? That also happens to digital files unless held on optical media or otherwise maintained actively and carefully. A straight copy - even two straight copies - to hard drives still carries quite a lot of risk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_degradation

https://www.blisshq.com/music-library-management-blog/2017/04/18/what-is-bit-rot/

(BTW there seems to be a misunderstanding around of what 'bit rot' is, in a recent Guardian article they seemed to think it means obsolescence due to evolution and replacement of file formats. I would argue that's another problem entirely).

Yomanze
12-12-2017, 23:49
I would recommend some cloud storage. [emoji4]

Lawrence001
12-12-2017, 23:49
Yes, and with a backup product that will check and correct for bit rot. You know how some digital photos start to disappear in patches? That also happens to digital files unless held on optical media or otherwise maintained actively and carefully. A straight copy - even two straight copies - to hard drives still carries quite a lot of risk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_degradation

https://www.blisshq.com/music-library-management-blog/2017/04/18/what-is-bit-rot/

(BTW there seems to be a misunderstanding around of what 'bit rot' is, in a recent Guardian article they seemed to think it means obsolescence due to evolution and replacement of file formats. I would argue that's another problem entirely).Trust the Guardian, how could file type redundancy mean you lose a few bits, surely the file is either complete and useable or completely lost that way?

Sent from my NEM-L51 using Tapatalk

struth
13-12-2017, 04:37
Ive a few had copies mostly made at time of ripping My back up to that is retaining the cds which I still play.
Never considered cloud storage for this amount. Might be pricey

Although the ones I bought on Amazon do have MP3 cloud storage

Sherwood
13-12-2017, 07:28
Regarding storage, I recently bought a second WD Easystore drive in the USA. This one is 8tb and very user friendly.

I think cloud storage is fine if you only have a few hundred cds. Above that, I think multiple back-ups are the way forward. The price of hard drives is so low that this is now affordable.

Geoff

Primalsea
13-12-2017, 08:45
Im still in the mindset of owning the Cds even though I have the files on the NAS drive. One day they will be fashionable again, like vinyl :lol:. I have my NAS set to Raid 1 so I have 2 discs that are mirrored. If one goes down it can be replaced and the other disc automatically copies itself to the new one. Not a foolproof backup, but still quite reliable.

montesquieu
13-12-2017, 16:20
Im still in the mindset of owning the Cds even though I have the files on the NAS drive. One day they will be fashionable again, like vinyl :lol:. I have my NAS set to Raid 1 so I have 2 discs that are mirrored. If one goes down it can be replaced and the other disc automatically copies itself to the new one. Not a foolproof backup, but still quite reliable.


Regarding storage, I recently bought a second WD Easystore drive in the USA. This one is 8tb and very user friendly.

I think cloud storage is fine if you only have a few hundred cds. Above that, I think multiple back-ups are the way forward. The price of hard drives is so low that this is now affordable.

Geoff



Precisely the point I was making is that this does not guarantee you data integrity. Even standard Cloud storage which is simple replication might not solve the problem. Funnily enough, optical media like CDs are a far more reliable backup (for all they can still physically degrade).

Macca
13-12-2017, 16:26
I think your overestimating the potential problem of data degradation. If it was actually a real-world issue lots of everyday things would be falling over all the time because of it.

montesquieu
13-12-2017, 16:27
I think your overestimating the potential problem of data degradation. If it was actually a real-world issue lots of everyday things would be falling over all the time because of it.

well I have comparatively few files and already I have several unplayable because of it.

Macca
13-12-2017, 16:57
How do you know it is because of that and not some other reason? If it was that common a problem wouldn't aircraft be falling out of the sky and so forth? A file of music is pretty simple as these things go so if that can be corrupted to the point of failure so easily wouldn't larger, more complex programs be failing all the time?

Something here does not add up.

Barry
13-12-2017, 17:11
I'm quietly sympathetic and envious of you Iain for shifting 3,000 CDs. My problem is I have recently had to find new storage for about the same number of CDs - it's not easy'. My fiancé comes from a culture where such possessions are not important and it is not usual to find anyone there with collections of anything. Thus she likes to have a relatively spartan, minimalist-looking, living space, uncluttered (in her opinion) by books CDs and LPs. It's a bit of a struggle to find a 'middle way'.

However I do like to own a physical copy of the music 'software', just as I like to have physical books to read, so the struggle continues ....

Pieoftheday
13-12-2017, 17:14
How do you know it is because of that and not some other reason? If it was that common a problem wouldn't aircraft be falling out of the sky and so forth? A file of music is pretty simple as these things go so if that can be corrupted to the point of failure so easily wouldn't larger, more complex programs be failing all the time?

Something here does not add up.

I'd guess any info stored on aircraft would be constantly upgraded , unlikely to degrade,I'm guessing mind:)

struth
13-12-2017, 17:23
I'm quietly sympathetic and envious of you Iain for shifting 3,000 CDs. My problem is I have recently had to find new storage for about the same number of CDs - it's not easy'. My fiancé comes from a culture where such possessions are not important and it is not usual to find anyone there with collections of anything. Thus she likes to have a relatively spartan, minimalist-looking, living space, uncluttered (in her opinion) by books CDs and LPs. It's a bit of a struggle to find a 'middle way'.

However I do like to own a physical copy of the music 'software', just as I like to have physical books to read, so the struggle continues ....

you should consider ripping them and getting a one box playing solution plus a nas with raid1. Then store cd's somewhere as a backup etc. it will sound as good; maybe better and you will gain space and happy fiance.
Sure you could find someone to set it up for you

montesquieu
13-12-2017, 17:25
How do you know it is because of that and not some other reason? If it was that common a problem wouldn't aircraft be falling out of the sky and so forth? A file of music is pretty simple as these things go so if that can be corrupted to the point of failure so easily wouldn't larger, more complex programs be failing all the time?

Something here does not add up.

Stuff held on a local hard drive is not the same as something held in a Tier 1 datacenter with all sorts of data integrity processes running behind the scenes (or indeed something flashed on a ROM chip that typically runs things like high-availability systems such as you get in aircraft guidance). That's why a properly implemented cloud solution is a very good suggestion.

Sectors fail on local hard drives all the time (if you run a good disk checker these can be mapped out) and the risk increases over time as disks age and as you copy data from drive to drive. A surprising number of my early digital photos from 15-20 years ago are corrupted. I have quite a few mainly older audio files too that don't play. I imagine right now it's well under 1% with any kind problem, but I would anticipate this will increase over time. If you get rid of all your physical media and have no means of restoration, if something goes kaput that you really like, you could be faced with buying it again.

I'm not making this up, did you read the links? I've been working in IT for more than 20 years and I can assure you it's a real issue the industry takes seriously. Consumers are only very lately being exposed to this as they suddenly have quite large data archives. So your files are largely OK on the machine you ripped them to are absolutely fine over the last, say 5 years. I'd expect that.

But how will they be two or three disks down the line in 10 or 15 years' time? That's the time horizon I'm talking about.

I'm simply warning against complacency. Where you have the physical media you can re-load, or an account with a provider of hi-res files such as Linn where you can (presumably) go back and get data, that's fine. But where you don't, and if you don't take precautions around data integrity (beyond just copying to another drive - the risk with simple replication is that you replace a good file with a bad one) then you are risking data loss.

I personally have no plans to get rid of my CDs.

Pieoftheday
13-12-2017, 17:29
The Novafidelity x40' is a great one box solution,pre.dac.ripper.server.streamer.internet radio.

Haselsh1
13-12-2017, 17:53
I once read that critical data in things like aircraft and nuclear power stations are guarded by a 'watchdog' system that constantly checks for errors. I used to use a chemical reactor known as an RC1 calorimeter that also has such a watchdog system. As I use CD's and vinyl, I don't have such worries. My oldest CD still plays fine and that dates from 1983.

Macca
13-12-2017, 17:54
Stuff held on a local hard drive is not the same as something held in a Tier 1 datacenter with all sorts of data integrity processes running behind the scenes (or indeed something flashed on a ROM chip that typically runs things like high-availability systems such as you get in aircraft guidance). That's why a properly implemented cloud solution is a very good suggestion.

Sectors fail on local hard drives all the time (if you run a good disk checker these can be mapped out) and the risk increases over time as disks age and as you copy data from drive to drive. A surprising number of my early digital photos from 15-20 years ago are corrupted. I have quite a few mainly older audio files too that don't play. I imagine right now it's well under 1% with any kind problem, but I would anticipate this will increase over time. If you get rid of all your physical media and have no means of restoration, if something goes kaput that you really like, you could be faced with buying it again.

I'm not making this up, did you read the links? I've been working in IT for more than 20 years and I can assure you it's a real issue the industry takes seriously. Consumers are only very lately being exposed to this as they suddenly have quite large data archives. So your files are largely OK on the machine you ripped them to are absolutely fine over the last, say 5 years. I'd expect that.

But how will they be two or three disks down the line in 10 or 15 years' time? That's the time horizon I'm talking about.

.

I did read the links which is why I thought we were talking about something other than sectors on hard drives failing. My confusion. Of course that happens all the time so I can't imagine anyone whose entire collection is only on a hard drive not backing it up, at least twice. But I suppose some people don't bother.

montesquieu
13-12-2017, 18:00
I did read the links which is why I thought we were talking about something other than sectors on hard drives failing. My confusion. Of course that happens all the time so I can't imagine anyone whose entire collection is only on a hard drive not backing it up, at least twice. But I suppose some people don't bother.

A lot of the problems described in the second link start as disk related errors either in the file or in the metadata. If something gets corrupted, and you back it up, then you can over-write a good backup file with a corrupted one. There is software available to address this but at a consumer level the issue isn't taken seriously.

Sherwood
13-12-2017, 18:40
I'm quietly sympathetic and envious of you Iain for shifting 3,000 CDs. My problem is I have recently had to find new storage for about the same number of CDs - it's not easy'. My fiancé comes from a culture where such possessions are not important and it is not usual to find anyone there with collections of anything. Thus she likes to have a relatively spartan, minimalist-looking, living space, uncluttered (in her opinion) by books CDs and LPs. It's a bit of a struggle to find a 'middle way'.

However I do like to own a physical copy of the music 'software', just as I like to have physical books to read, so the struggle continues ....

Barry,

my motivation for ripping is different, though 3,000 plus cds do take up a lot of space, and I aspire to a Zen minimalism!

I have been working overseas for most of the last 20 years. For the first few postings I had my cd collection shipped from continent to continent. The problem is that marine insurance is 4% of replacement value not to mention the cost of packing and shipping. During this time I have ripped all of my cds to disk with duplicate drives. I am hoping to be taking up a new long term post in Kenya in the New Year, and my cds (now in heavy duty plastic crates with silica gel bags) will go into long term storage along with more than 1,000 lps, the last of which was purchased in 1998. I will travel with two hard drives with a third backup left here in the UK.

On a related note, I have gradually been scanning (with a remarkable Fujitsu device) a personal library of reports and other documents accumulated over more than 30 years working in development economics. These are irreplaceable but a real pain to store and ship. A few years back I bought an external LG Blu ray/DVD burner and have been archiving these documents using the M-Disc archival media. This format has a claimed life of 1,000 years. I will be happy if they survive 25 years, and for that matter if I do. The 25gb disks are now pretty affordable and a good size for archival. If used to archive cds ripped in flac format one should get more than 50 lossless discs on a single Blu-ray M-Disc (at a media cost of less than 10p per cd).

Geoff

Clive
13-12-2017, 20:20
I once read that critical data in things like aircraft and nuclear power stations are guarded by a 'watchdog' system that constantly checks for errors. I used to use a chemical reactor known as an RC1 calorimeter that also has such a watchdog system. As I use CD's and vinyl, I don't have such worries. My oldest CD still plays fine and that dates from 1983.
The watchdog is likely there to decide where to swap to a second system in the event of a failure...it could be for disks but probably not with Raid etc .

Minstrel SE
15-12-2017, 17:13
You're a brave man Iain! :) Ive just bought some more CD racks so I can actually see what I have.

I am sorting them out though and anything I might have bought in a job lot that doesnt get played will be going. I have loads of Mojo, Q and Uncut Cds which will be the first to get ripped and then stored away out of sight or sold.

I do understand the minimalist thing and to be honest I am getting a bit uneasy about my large shelves full of cds and dvds. I was double stacking them on shelves so I couldnt even see what I have which is frustrating and crazy when I cant find something quickly. If you cant find a record reasonably quickly, there is little point owning it. Its crucial that things are stored in order with an inventory system so I do see the advantages of computer storage

Ive just come home with more shelves so I can at least see what I have more easily. I think Ive pretty much peaked and I will try getting rid of two and buying one for a while. It does get to a stage where Im all musiced out in terms of what is stored in here.

I do worry about hard drive failure and I do have room to store a few boxes of cds. Im not trading them in for pennies and they are not rare enough to be worth much. I also remember the time I sold my vinyl collection for peanuts and that is a big regret now.

Deep down I long for a more spacious room with everything stored on a hard drive. However thats quite a leap for me and Im not ready to do it

alphaGT
15-12-2017, 17:56
One thing not discussed here is how much did he cash in? Selling 3,000 CD’s at a fair price, that’s a pretty good chunk of change! Money that could be spent on improving his digital playback setup perhaps?

And I’m not completely clear on the law, if you owned the CDs at the time of collecting the files, do you lose your rights when you sell the CD’s? Logic would say yes, but we know logic has little to do with the law. Perhaps a receipt from the record store stating the titles you owned would be sufficient? Maybe better than nothing?

And I worked with Data Storage too in the past. A good Raid setup should prevent data loss from bad sectors, etc. but a full backup copy should be stored off site. In case of a fire, flood, you will have a remote backup to get your data back. Two backups are even better! And these backups should be updated regularly, once a year? So they don’t set and degrade and in 20 years when you need them you find they too are rotten. Storing massive data files in the cloud sounds very convenient, but they offer no responsibility if your files are lost or corrupted. And when a massive solar flare, or EMP explosion, or some other natural disaster ruins everyone’s day, there will be a mad scramble for those old CDs and vinyls!

I like the idea of having my entire collection on file, but after working with computers all those years, it seems to suck the fun out of stereo for me to add a computer to the mix. But, some state that after moving to a file storage medium they don’t play their music as much. Perhaps that’s all the fault of a proper front end? A nice program that keeps them in order with album covers and liner notes in an iPad, would make it more like the old days when we actually physically played a disc? Or perhaps we should all get hi res Spotify and stash all our old recordings and call it a day?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Chunky70
15-12-2017, 18:08
One thing not discussed here is how much did he cash in? Selling 3,000 CD’s at a fair price, that’s a pretty good chunk of change! Money that could be spent on improving his digital playback setup perhaps?

And I’m not completely clear on the law, if you owned the CDs at the time of collecting the files, do you lose your rights when you sell the CD’s? Logic would say yes, but we know logic has little to do with the law. Perhaps a receipt from the record store stating the titles you owned would be sufficient? Maybe better than nothing?

And I worked with Data Storage too in the past. A good Raid setup should prevent data loss from bad sectors, etc. but a full backup copy should be stored off site. In case of a fire, flood, you will have a remote backup to get your data back. Two backups are even better! And these backups should be updated regularly, once a year? So they don’t set and degrade and in 20 years when you need them you find they too are rotten. Storing massive data files in the cloud sounds very convenient, but they offer no responsibility if your files are lost or corrupted. And when a massive solar flare, or EMP explosion, or some other natural disaster ruins everyone’s day, there will be a mad scramble for those old CDs and vinyls!

I like the idea of having my entire collection on file, but after working with computers all those years, it seems to suck the fun out of stereo for me to add a computer to the mix. But, some state that after moving to a file storage medium they don’t play their music as much. Perhaps that’s all the fault of a proper front end? A nice program that keeps them in order with album covers and liner notes in an iPad, would make it more like the old days when we actually physically played a disc? Or perhaps we should all get hi res Spotify and stash all our old recordings and call it a day?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I was paid £1100 for them. I think that's fair considering the cd market these days.

Chunky70
15-12-2017, 20:19
33p per CD!? For your audio history!!!?

CD's are worthless these days. Better to get something for them as sitting gathering dust. Most of the stuff I had is on Spotify anyway.

skimminstones
15-12-2017, 20:38
get more than that selling them through music magpie wouldnt you? think they give about 50p per disc. Though personally for that id rather store them somewhere.

Sherwood
15-12-2017, 22:14
CD's are worthless these days. Better to get something for them as sitting gathering dust. Most of the stuff I had is on Spotify anyway.

I think you need to recognise that the "worthless cd" is a license to play copyrighted material and not just a plastic disc. I think the artist deserves to be paid for their intellectual property. That is why I keep my cds, even though I doubt I will ever play them again.

Spotify is great for discovering new material, but if I really like something I still buy the cd for the better quality sound.

Geoff

struth
15-12-2017, 22:20
I still play mine when in mood I like the labour of picking and playing discs just like vinyl but have to admit I use files and streams more due tbh my health

r100
15-12-2017, 22:23
I've been Spotify streaming for a couple of years and I've had a good CD clearout recently.
Probably about 500 gone to Oxfam charity shop, leaving me with about 2000 I guess..

Must admit I'm a bit wary of dumping the whole lot even though I don't play them now.
Not sure why :scratch: but who knows what the future will bring!
I guess it's that a physical collection is not dependent on anyone else's whim.

If something goes horribly wrong (3rd WW for example), I'll pull out my guitar again.

walpurgis
15-12-2017, 22:27
I use CD's more than anything else, so they're certainly not worthless to me. Why should I change? I get excellent sound quality and have CD's of all the music I want.

dave2010
15-12-2017, 23:01
The 25gb disks are now pretty affordable and a good size for archival. If used to archive cds ripped in flac format one should get more than 50 lossless discs on a single Blu-ray M-Disc (at a media cost of less than 10p per cd).
Doesn't the archive cost drop even further if hard drives are used? You should be able to get drives which work out at around £40-£50 per Terabyte, so about 4p per Gbyte, and lossless compression should get 3 or 4 CDs per Gbyte. The downside is the "all eggs in one basket" aspect, so multiple drives would be needed to protect against data loss.

I have been wondering about selling or just getting rid of all my CDs, but so far haven't. I'm afraid I have well in excess of 3000.

One other thing, I think that ripping and then getting rid of them if they have copyright material is technically illegal - at least if they are sold on or sent to charity shops. Not sure if that applies if they go to landfill.

Sherwood
15-12-2017, 23:53
Doesn't the archive cost drop even further if hard drives are used? You should be able to get drives which work out at around £40-£50 per Terabyte, so about 4p per Gbyte, and lossless compression should get 3 or 4 CDs per Gbyte. The downside is the "all eggs in one basket" aspect, so multiple drives would be needed to protect against data loss.

I have been wondering about selling or just getting rid of all my CDs, but so far haven't. I'm afraid I have well in excess of 3000.

One other thing, I think that ripping and then getting rid of them if they have copyright material is technically illegal - at least if they are sold on or sent to charity shops. Not sure if that applies if they go to landfill.

Yes hard drives are much cheaper but unreliable. A hard disk will fail at some point, either partially or catastrophically. The M-Disc media is a special archival quality storage medium with a claimed 1,000 year storage life. If it survives 25 years that would be good enough for me.

Geoff

Pete The Cat
16-12-2017, 07:43
I find that digital doesn't inspire me to select music to play as much as record or CD. It may seem strange but I don't find that browsing, say, on Amazon makes me want to buy half as much as if I'm in a record shop. Similarly, I can stare at this screen and not feel like doing anything with all the pixellated music files, yet with shelves of record or CDs the urge to make random selections is overwhelming.

Pete

RMutt
16-12-2017, 09:46
I often put my Squeezebox on random song play. It can be a pleasant surprise what comes up. I can always quickly skip a song if l’m not in the mood, but it’s my music so usually it’s pretty good.

TazSob
16-12-2017, 15:40
Still enjoy playing CDs myself and after reading some posts on this thread think I may be a little crazy having gone out and recently buying a 200cd Sony jukebox... Only own a couple of hundred CDs and am looking to get more as they're going for pennies nowadays.
Can't seem to enjoy ripped music as much, find myself skipping tracks and albums more often than if they were on a hard copy for some odd reason.

bobvfr
16-12-2017, 15:52
Can't seem to enjoy ripped music as much, find myself skipping tracks and albums more often than if they were on a hard copy for some odd reason.

To me that is the biggest problem with digital formats, I really do prefer to play an album, but it is so easy to skip a track, then half way through an album something comes to mind so you jump to something else.

Unfortunately it comes down to a bit of self discipline or do as you are doing, stick to the albums on a hard format. I am trying the discipline route at the moment.

Clive
16-12-2017, 16:07
I agree about skipping around with files based music....it does for me in the end become less meaningful. It's too tempting to select the most instantly fun music and ignore the ups and downs of full albums. Deep and moving complex music seems to lose out. A sign of the times I suppose.

Grumpy.

WAD62
16-12-2017, 20:06
I agree about skipping around with files based music....it does for me in the end become less meaningful. It's too tempting to select the most instantly fun music and ignore the ups and downs of full albums. Deep and moving complex music seems to lose out. A sign of the times I suppose.

Grumpy.

I've been streaming my own flac files since 2009, and have recently added the spotify plugin to my LMS set up, yet I always stream album by album, whether local files or spotify ones...the playlist novelty wore off many years ago...

Sherwood
16-12-2017, 20:26
I agree about skipping around with files based music....it does for me in the end become less meaningful. It's too tempting to select the most instantly fun music and ignore the ups and downs of full albums. Deep and moving complex music seems to lose out. A sign of the times I suppose.

Grumpy.

I think the reason that many people find themselves skipping tracks is that most albums are flawed in some way. I would say that only a fraction of my cds stand up as a complete piece of work that I will listen to from first to last track. In the days of vinyl, it was too much of a faff to skip tracks but I know that even then I would tend to favour one side of an album over another. When cds arrived I would routinely skip certain tracks that were fillers or just didn't sit well in the flow of music. These days, I do not see many cds following the album format with a clear progression of music and some unifying theme. Streaming doesn't mean you have to skip tracks and the fact that many people do suggest that the skipped tracks don't stand up to repeated playing. I agree, that there are some artists and some pieces of work that really need to be played through as a complete piece of work, but they are rare, and, dare I say, becoming rarer!

Geoff

dave2010
16-12-2017, 21:07
Yes hard drives are much cheaper but unreliable. A hard disk will fail at some point, either partially or catastrophically. The M-Disc media is a special archival quality storage medium with a claimed 1,000 year storage life. If it survives 25 years that would be good enough for me.
Is the object to save space, by ripping and disposing of the originals? Possible technical legal problems with that - but probably nobody will really bother.

If you have a loft with enough space you could simply keep the original CDs, which would then be their own archives, having ripped the CDs to computer storage. That way you'd have the archive, and also the benefit - if such it is - of being able to acceess all the contents quickly. There could be issues if the loft gets very cold or very hot, or very damp - but not all lofts do. There are plastic boxes which will easily hold 50 CDs at a time, and they could be used in lofts. Admittedly the cost of storing the originals in that way would probably be about 10p per CD - if the plastic boxes work out at around £5 each, though some CD/DVD/SACD box sets would also go in, and reduce the overall cost per disc as they would be more densely packed.

Note also that at the present time it is still actually illegal to rip CDs in the UK - a somewhat retrograde step in legislation - even for personal/private use. I don't think too many people care though.

For myself I spent some time ripping a lot of CDs a few years ago, but despite that I have for the time being gone back to just playing the CDs in my player. I don't know why! It seems simpler, perhaps.

Clive
16-12-2017, 21:16
I think the reason that many people find themselves skipping tracks is that most albums are flawed in some way. I would say that only a fraction of my cds stand up as a complete piece of work that I will listen to from first to last track. In the days of vinyl, it was too much of a faff to skip tracks but I know that even then I would tend to favour one side of an album over another. When cds arrived I would routinely skip certain tracks that were fillers or just didn't sit well in the flow of music. These days, I do not see many cds following the album format with a clear progression of music and some unifying theme. Streaming doesn't mean you have to skip tracks and the fact that many people do suggest that the skipped tracks don't stand up to repeated playing. I agree, that there are some artists and some pieces of work that really need to be played through as a complete piece of work, but they are rare, and, dare I say, becoming rarer!

Geoff
I'm not even thinking about recent music....for example Saxophone Colossus / Sonny Rollins....I find myself playing just Moritat yet the the whole album is stunning. By not playing the whole album I'm not as satisfied but have more instant gratification. The result is that I play my vinyl version as a way to enforce my good behaviour.

Chunky70
16-12-2017, 21:22
Thank you to everyone for a most interesting thread. I can understand why some of you would be shocked at me getting rid of the whole lot but my feelings about my collection have changed over the last year.
I used to be proud of my collection, it was almost an extension of myself, a definition of who i am in effect. But lately i've actually started to resent it's hulking presence in my living room. It was a reminder to me that the obsessive cd buying was actually an illness.
I was actually really embaressed to discover whilst going through the lot with Tom that a quite a few of them were still in there wrappers!! Thats just madness!!
I'm really glad there gone.

struth
16-12-2017, 21:29
Did that once upon s time with records. When I realised I had a lot I'd never played I stopped buying and sold a lot They were not new but new to me

Chunky70
16-12-2017, 21:45
Did that once upon s time with records. When I realised I had a lot I'd never played I stopped buying and sold a lot They were not new but new to me

I know where your coming from Grant. I found it impossible to pass a record shop. I already had enough music but i needed more!!

struth
16-12-2017, 21:51
I know where your coming from Grant. I found it impossible to pass a record shop. I already had enough music but i needed more!!

Yup I play more music with Deezer or my flac files than I did using the cds or vinyl. I don't know why. It's not as touchy feely but it seems to leave me free to just listen. Ive put most of my vinyl away and intend doing same with cds. Will keep them tho as I'm not ready yet to sell

Sherwood
16-12-2017, 22:22
I'm not even thinking about recent music....for example Saxophone Colossus / Sonny Rollins....I find myself playing just Moritat yet the the whole album is stunning. By not playing the whole album I'm not as satisfied but have more instant gratification. The result is that I play my vinyl version as a way to enforce my good behaviour.

Surely this is a problem of your own making and not a problem with streaming per se. I just don't understand how a strength of streaming from a digital archive can be presented as a weakness: namely, the flexibility to instantly access whole albums; an artist's complete repertoire; a genre; a playlist; or just tracks at random. To enforce "good behaviour" seems a bit odd to me!

On the storage side, the Really Useful Box Company offer a range of really strong boxes for CD storage. If you are storing them in an unheated loft of garage, don't forget to drop a decent sized bag of silica gel to stop condensation. It's amazing how damp the cd inserts can get if left in long term storage without such precautions.

Geoff

Clive
17-12-2017, 00:17
I've not called it a weakness. It just doesn't help me listen to music in a good way or a way that I feel is good. Sure that's just me. That's said I do fight it and listen to files as well as vinyl.

Minstrel SE
17-12-2017, 00:44
I like CDs and have been there since the start :) I have 571 of them listed on my computer spreadsheet.

Is this not just a case of 3000 cds taking over? There is a point when we can just play no more. Is that not the real issue here. I think I was actually happier when I had a handful because I would get around to playing them. I mean seriously when am I going to get round to playing the best part of 571 cds? I skip tracks on my computer because I am overwhelmed by 320gb worth of music.

There is so much music being released now plus all the stuff from yesteryear. Maybe there is no point building a small collection if we can access a central library

I can see the benefits of a yearly membership to huge online music library but do the artists get paid enough. What am I paying and what quality am I getting? I still prefer buying the occasional cd because I like the control to rest with me and Im conditioned to owning a hard copy.

I dont really have a problem storing 571 cds but together with all my dvds it is a considerable amount of storage space. I wouldnt put anything in the loft though because its outside a safe temperature range.

Sherwood
17-12-2017, 03:17
For me only two things matter with regard to ripping and streaming. The first is sound quality. I have had some good cd players and yet I feel that the sound quality I get with a disk based system is superior. I am using a good but relatively inexpensive streamer (a Cambridge CXN) as well as an RPi based system with one of the new Allo boards (the Digione). Both seem to have a smoother sound than cds, and I am particulalry pleased with the new Allo board which is very detailed but very smooth.

The second thing is portability. Yes the convenience of having an entire cd collection ripped to one hard disk (with multiple backups) is great, but it is the ability to bring my music with me when I travel that I value most. I have a good quality Sony HD music player with selection of 128gb micro sd cards that I can use with headphones or via a Bluetooth receiver. I have also recently put together a new portable hifi comprising a pair of Martin Logan Motion 2 speakers and a Nuforce Icon Amp. Along with the Sony HD player it fits into a travelling case not much bigger than a shoe-box. The sound quality is more than good, it is very very good.

Geoff

dave2010
17-12-2017, 06:41
On the storage side, the Really Useful Box Company offer a range of really strong boxes for CD storage. If you are storing them in an unheated loft of garage, don't forget to drop a decent sized bag of silica gel to stop condensation. It's amazing how damp the cd inserts can get if left in long term storage without such precautions.
The silica gel tip sounds like a good idea, though I was hoping that some boxes would be well enough sealed to avoid problems. Doesn’t the gel itself have to be renewed periodically, or does the moisture effectively cycle over time - the gel drying out in hot weather, but absorbing moisture in the cold?

I have some boxes a bit like these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Storage-plastic-Boxes-Holds-52cds/dp/B00723OWP2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1513492947&sr=8-2&keywords=Cd+box+plastic

Sherwood
30-12-2017, 17:22
The silica gel tip sounds like a good idea, though I was hoping that some boxes would be well enough sealed to avoid problems. Doesn’t the gel itself have to be renewed periodically, or does the moisture effectively cycle over time - the gel drying out in hot weather, but absorbing moisture in the cold?

I have some boxes a bit like these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Storage-plastic-Boxes-Holds-52cds/dp/B00723OWP2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1513492947&sr=8-2&keywords=Cd+box+plastic

Dave,

I think you would need some seal to exclude moisture and I know of no such boxes that would exclude all moisture and there will already be moisture in the box when it is packed. The boxes you refer to look OK but don't underestimate the weight of cds, and the pressure on the bottom boxes if you are stacking them.

Regarding the silica gel, a small pack can absorb a lot of water. They can be recharged very simply. I put old bags on top of the radiator, but others put them in an oven on a medium heat setting. There are sites that explain the maths of absorption and the correct size bag for a particular volume box. Personally I go for extreme overkill as the larger bags are pretty cheap when bought in bulk on ebay. Just FYI, i bought my last album in 1998 and for much of the last 20 years my vinyl collection was iong term storage in these boxes with a large silica gel bag in each. When I got them out of storage they were in pristine condition with no damage to the album or album cover. They were stacked 4 boxes high, though I think the boxes are so strong that 6 boxes or more is feasible

http://www.reallyusefulproducts.co.uk/uk/html/onlineshop/rub/b35_0litreXL.php

Geoff

m10
30-12-2017, 20:32
Great thread! I've just read it through from start to finish.

I tend to mix physical media, files and streaming. The CD, for me, is an odd proposition nowadays. It is still the main way I add digital music to my collection but - like many others - I rip and store. I feel secure knowing the discs are there as the ultimate backup. The discs themselves, though, barely see the light of day. It would feel odd to me to play a CD having ripped it - as the ripped file is identical. (Not quite the same as archiving your precious and delicate LPs to tape on your Nakamichi!)

In the digital world, though, I'm quite happy to play DVD-A, SACD, Blu-ray etc. from disc - and I'm similarly comfortable with LP records. These formats are all a bit more fiddly to archive/rip than CD of course.

I think the success (or otherwise) of streaming and file platforms is the UI/UX - with a good interface the experience can/could be as nice as handling and selecting from your LPs. The streaming interface on my old Cambridge streamer was awful, ugly and clunky (nice as the device was in terms of sound) and I longed for my old Meridian CD player back (or to return to iTunes with my Mac Mini!).

When I tried (and bought) Roon - with a Raspberry Pi 3 and Meridian Explorer 2 as an 'endpoint' - I realised this was where I wanted to be! Tidal albums are integrated with my collection, so I can stream from my files or the internet using a single interface - which pulls in metadata from the internet so I can explore connections between artists and albums in my collection. Roon uses this metadata to provide a 'Radio' feature that creates remarkable automated playlists - and can use DSP to level the volume if you wish. But I find I tend to listen to albums - and it gives me just as much satisfaction (although of a very different kind) as listening to vinyl.

That said I'm currently listening to Sgt. Pepper's on Blu-ray - go figure!

gizze
01-01-2018, 12:01
When I tried (and bought) Roon - with a Raspberry Pi 3 and Meridian Explorer 2 as an 'endpoint' - I realised this was where I wanted to be! Tidal albums are integrated with my collection, so I can stream from my files or the internet using a single interface - which pulls in metadata from the internet so I can explore connections between artists and albums in my collection. Roon uses this metadata to provide a 'Radio' feature that creates remarkable automated playlists - and can use DSP to level the volume if you wish. But I find I tend to listen to albums - and it gives me just as much satisfaction (although of a very different kind) as listening to vinyl.




Same here.

Rasberry Pi and Explorer 2 replaced CD transport, Meridian DAC, Croft Pre, now it goes straight into the power amp, only thing on show is the speakers.

Roon and Tidal is my music, all physical media gone.

jandl100
01-01-2018, 12:06
Yep, physical media are so last year. :lol:

Macca
01-01-2018, 12:32
I really don't understand the appeal. I have a big bookcase sat in an alcove with all my CDs and LPs in it. Doesn't cause any bother, it isn't in the way of anything.

This desire to 'de-clutter', get rid of physical media and 'reduce the box count'. What is that all about? Some sort of psychological compulsion? When I was a youngster I wanted more boxes and more 'physical media'. That was what it was all about, having a great stereo system and a big collection of music to play on it. That hasn't changed for me. I really don't care how many boxes there are, they just sit there on racks not bothering anyone. Someone please explain this motivation to get rid of everything, it makes no sense to me.

jandl100
01-01-2018, 12:35
I really don't understand the appeal.

For me, it's not about getting rid of everything.
It's about immediate access to effectively unlimited music.
I just love to explore new things - be they hifi gear or music.
At the twiddle of a mouse I can access 1000s upon 1000s of albums. It's just fabulous. It's all about the music for me.

montesquieu
01-01-2018, 12:38
I really don't understand the appeal. I have a big bookcase sat in an alcove with all my CDs and LPs in it. Doesn't cause any bother, it isn't in the way of anything.

This desire to 'de-clutter', get rid of physical media and 'reduce the box count'. What is that all about? Some sort of psychological compulsion? When I was a youngster I wanted more boxes and more 'physical media'. That was what it was all about, having a great stereo system and a big collection of music to play on it. That hasn't changed for me. I really don't care how many boxes there are, they just sit there on racks not bothering anyone. Someone please explain this motivation to get rid of everything, it makes no sense to me.

Totally agree.

Was listening to some Bach cantatas last night, on LP, I have pretty much the whole Leonhard / Harnoncourt set (48 out of 50 box sets). Comes with a scholarly article in every box plus text, translation, score, performer, performance and venue details. The score on its own makes this set precious. Or I could stream it from a file with hit and miss metadata. No brainier.

Macca
01-01-2018, 12:40
I can understand it as an adjunct to the physical media. But getting rid of the physical media seems like an illogical thing to do unless you are strapped for cash. That's why I am wondering if there is a deeper psychological motivation.

Aside from that, sole reliance on streaming services is taking a big chance. They have all been losing money for years. That means either they get a lot more expensive or they fold. Or they get a lot more expensive then fold anyway because not enough people are prepared to pay to subscribe. There is only so long you can keep a loss-making business running.

jandl100
01-01-2018, 12:44
I'm hanging on to my multi-1000 CD collection, just in case.
It's not used now, though.
We all have different requirements and needs - Tom doesn't get the associated musical literature with streaming, whereas I wouldn't even look at it anyway!

Macca
01-01-2018, 12:53
I'm hanging on to my multi-1000 CD collection, just in case.
It's not used now, though.
We all have different requirements and needs - Tom doesn't get the associated musical literature with streaming, whereas I wouldn't even look at it anyway!

That makes sense, stick them in boxes under the bed or the attic. Selling them is burning bridges that don't need to be burned IMO. Imagine having to start a collection from scratch again!

walpurgis
01-01-2018, 12:59
Someone please explain this motivation to get rid of everything, it makes no sense to me.

It's probably the onset of 'old age' thinking mate! :D

jandl100
01-01-2018, 13:02
It's probably the onset of 'old age' thinking mate! :D

Yeah, you need to be young and enthusiastic, like me. :wheniwasaboy: :lol:

walpurgis
01-01-2018, 13:05
:lolsign:

Macca
01-01-2018, 13:08
I'm not going to get a serious answer to this am I? But I reckon there is a PhD in it for some aspiring psychologist.

struth
01-01-2018, 13:22
ah the cleanse yourself by removing everything that reminds you of your mistakes minimalism gig:eyebrows:

wish i could but i cant, so maybe i really want more:doh:

Minstrel SE
01-01-2018, 14:34
I have just made sure that I have easy access to my collection on the shelves and nothing is double stacked. I have alphabetical divides backed up with a computer spreadsheet so I find something very quickly.

I had a period when I didnt know where stuff was and that was a nightmare. I kept saying to myself.... no point owning it if I cant find it.

So its just a case of getting organised and having proper shelves and strong cube shelving for vinyl. I cant see a problem unless its taking over much needed living space.

I am gradually ripping my charity shop cds but I will always keep my core collection. I have probably peaked around the level Im at

I dont buy many discs now. I only experiment if its 30p to a £1 :) Its got to be a damn good new album to get my money. I buy less now but I still like the idea of having my hard copy of a film or music.

The streaming idea hasnt really been sold to me. I keep thinking about a yearly subscription to a central style storage library but how do the artists get paid? They have to eat and some want to get rich through their efforts.

How does my affordable yearly subsciption cover the royalties on all the music I may like to listen to? I sometimes moan about the TV licence so you can see how that mentality could be carried over into paying for a music service. Its another bill I dont really want to see coming in even though it could provide me with much enjoyment.

Things are changing but I am quite sad about the decline of the cd. It was bound to happen as its just a form of digital 0+1s that can be done elsewhere. The library are not doing them now and she gave me a very odd look as if I need to get with the times daddy o :)

I do see a certain joy if the rise of the robots is done right. Play Bob Dylan Witmark demos while Im pouring a drink. My computer will be called Jennifer in the white minimalist room with a well placed sculpture :)

clap
01-01-2018, 21:14
Is this not a copyright issue?

m10
01-01-2018, 22:28
Is this not a copyright issue?

At least as far as getting rid of the CDs - yes it is a simple issue of copyright. The likelihood of the law ever being enforced is another question.

The discussion has drifted to questions of aesthetics and the nature of collecting, among other things. I’m a bit of an oddity I think, as I’ve embraced ripp8ng and streaming, but hang on to (and play) vinyl and SACD - never mind blu-ray and DVD on the video side. I admire those who’ve gone down the rabbit hole and virtualised their whole collections. Their houses must be ever so clean and tidy!

m10
01-01-2018, 22:34
Same here.

Rasberry Pi and Explorer 2 replaced CD transport, Meridian DAC, Croft Pre, now it goes straight into the power amp, only thing on show is the speakers.

Roon and Tidal is my music, all physical media gone.

The Explorer is a fabulous device - immense and tiny all at the same time. Trounced my old Cambridge streamer soundly. My DCS-owning pal (also a Garrard/SME/Koetsu vinyl guy) thinks it’s the best sound he’s heard from digital.

Alas, I need pre-amps and such as I still insist on playing LPs!

montesquieu
01-01-2018, 22:46
I repeatedly come across music - not just LPs, which you'd expect, but quite a few CDs - that are not on any of the streaming platforms. Add in metadata issues - I binned Tidal because quite a number of albums where there was more than one composer had nothing in the track listing to tell you who the composer was - and it looks to me like streaming still has a way to go.

I have subscriptions to Qobuz and Spotify at the moment and they are ok, I run them alongside JRiver for the local stuff which is a few thousand files. I'll probably try Roon at some stage it seems to get good reports. (Though I use them to identify CDs I might want to buy).

I still find the experience better with the physical object present, whether it's the ability to have track listing, librettos and translations, and other information on your lap, or just a feeling of being invested in ownership ... yes it's great having a supposedly infinite library, but what's missing I find is a personal connection to specific music.

This is something I feel strongly. I recall when I bought a record or CD, or times in life when it was significant, houses it was played in. I remember as a teenager when I only had about 20-30 records, or a student when I had only a few hundred. Music got played over and over and memorised, ingested, lived and absorbed in minute detail, every expression, every breath, every pause. For me this connection matters more than supposedly infinite variety.

Less is more sometimes.

struth
01-01-2018, 22:52
Ive got records, cds, and fils all over the damn place but cant face getting rid of most of them. They become part of you. The deezer hifi is very good and I will be keeping this for a while unless a better option appears but I still like the physicality of my bits n pieces. My mate cant stand being in the house too long as his ocd kicks in :lol: and its not that bad

Pharos
01-01-2018, 23:43
I tend to sympathise and share your views and standpoint Tom, but I am very annoyed at the multiplicity of possible streaming solutions - like the 36 varieties of shampoo which Sainsburys discovered they were offering a few years ago.

I need good quality wide band, high bit rate, cheap, and with little equipment necessary, and surely don't we all want that, also with the necessary info.

I also do not want to be 'shipwrecked', ie. without my music because of internet problems, a company going broke or them holding me to ransom, so I like hard copy which I own.

And I agree that in my formative years much of the art to me was profound, and I listened repeatedly and learnt it, I becoming part of my life enlightenment. I have internalised the truths within it, and it is part of my staple influence.

But I do not have 'walls' of CDs as many do, my finance has always restricted my purchasing to the really essential.
So little of what I hear which is new has anything to say to me, and certainly is not revelatory, that I use my very high quality monitoring system to analyse everything about new listening experiences.

jandl100
02-01-2018, 07:09
Less is more sometimes.

We're all different in what we want.
More is more as far as I am concerned.

I wanted to try an album that wasn't on Spotify a few weeks back so I forked out a fiver or so for the CD. Big disappointment. I shall be wary of doing that again!
I follow Justin's credo (advanced during the 2 year period during which he was trying to get Luddite me to try streaming!) of not worrying about what isn't available streamed but enjoying the vast amount that is. He was right (as far as I am concerned). Justin is right sometimes. :)

struth
02-01-2018, 07:46
He is? [emoji3]

jandl100
02-01-2018, 07:48
Sometimes.
You just have to be patient.

struth
02-01-2018, 07:51
I still buy the odd cd but not much now. Usually one I really like. And second hand if poss. It's all there via the streaming service. Or mostly is.

walpurgis
02-01-2018, 09:26
I've not investigated, but I'm fairly sure that some of my choices in listening will not be available from streaming services, simply because they are pretty obscure and some even nigh on impossible to obtain again in physical media. For that reason, I intend to stay with my CD's and LP's, at least for the foreseeable future.

Another point that strikes me, is that the selections made for streaming availablity are a form of control. Basically, if what you want to hear is not commercial enough for the vendor to make money from, you ain't getting it! Our listening will become homogenised, so it fits 'their' model of what people should hear.

jandl100
02-01-2018, 09:34
Yes, some folks have reported that their musical tastes are such that they don't find a lot of what they want on the streaming services.
I only really know about the availability of classical music recordings, and that is a very broad and deep catalogue indeed. No homogenisation there as far as I am concerned.

jandl100
02-01-2018, 09:35
I've not investigated, but I'm fairly sure that some of my choices in listening will not be available from streaming services, simply because they are pretty obscure and some even nigh on impossible to obtain again in physical media.

Give some examples and I would be interested to have a look on Spotify. :)

walpurgis
02-01-2018, 09:37
Give some examples and I would be interested to have a look on Spotify. :)

Gobeil and Artificial Memory Trace spring to mind.

jandl100
02-01-2018, 09:48
Gobeil and Artificial Memory Trace spring to mind.

There are 3 artists called Gobeil on Spot. Dominic, Janine and Gilles.

Artificial Memory Trace - 1 album on Spot - Ama_Zone 1 : Black Water. 15 tracks, 79m long.

jandl100
02-01-2018, 09:52
Listening to Artificial Memory Trace now.
:eek:
You really want to listen to this stuff? :scratch: :lol:

walpurgis
02-01-2018, 09:52
'La Mechanique Des Ruptures' by Gilles Gobeil.

Gobeil and Artificial Memory Trace are electroacoustic acts. Not strictly music, depending on your point of view. Great for giving the system a work out though.

NickB
02-01-2018, 09:55
Gobeil and Artificial Memory Trace spring to mind.

Just found these on Tidal are they the ones?

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/5GGAE6.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/po5GGAE6j)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/iVur93.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poiVur93j)

jandl100
02-01-2018, 09:58
'La Mechanique Des Ruptures' by Gilles Gobeil.

Nope, can't find it.
There's just a single track by Gilles G - Nuit Cendre - 12m20s long.

Playing it now ..... weird stuff! :D
I do like Future Sound of London, which is kind of similar at times.

walpurgis
02-01-2018, 10:01
First one no. Second yes. There are quite a few Artificial Memory Trace releases and their content style varies.

Pharos
02-01-2018, 10:04
"Another point that strikes me, is that the selections made for streaming availablity are a form of control. Basically, if what you want to hear is not commercial enough for the vendor to make money from, you ain't getting it! Our listening will become homogenised, so it fits 'their' model of what people should hear. "

Good point Geoff, and one which extends to many areas in life; how often do you find a very good product has gone because it was either not commercial, or was perhaps politically controversial?

This happened with Safeway wholemeal muffins, delicious and good nutrition, but not popular.

Look at what has been done to heretical music by PWL and Simon Cowell; hi-jacked, cloned and made kitshe and mediocre with nothing to say. Mainstream TV is now IMO all non controversial banality.

walpurgis
02-01-2018, 10:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D1H3JwuigY

jandl100
02-01-2018, 10:15
Fair enough - you need to stay with physical media for now.

Macca
02-01-2018, 10:17
"Another point that strikes me, is that the selections made for streaming availablity are a form of control. Basically, if what you want to hear is not commercial enough for the vendor to make money from, you ain't getting it! Our listening will become homogenised, so it fits 'their' model of what people should hear. "

Good point Geoff, and one which extends to many areas in life; how often do you find a very good product has gone because it was either not commercial, or was perhaps politically controversial?

This happened with Safeway wholemeal muffins, delicious and good nutrition, but not popular.

Look at what has been done to heretical music by PWL and Simon Cowell; hi-jacked, cloned and made kitshe and mediocre with nothing to say. Mainstream TV is now IMO all non controversial banality.

Have to disagree. In the old days you were restricted to buying what the shop sold, or what was available mail order. Record companies did not give contracts to artists they did not think would sell. Now anyone can make music and release it to the world via the internet. Okay it won't be available on Spotify or Tidal but it is available. That is a good thing, surely?

walpurgis
02-01-2018, 10:18
Fair enough - you need to stay with physical media for now.

We shall see in the long run.

The performers mentioned are not representative of my general listening, but I do enjoy giving them a blast now and then.

walpurgis
02-01-2018, 10:19
it won't be available on Spotify or Tidal

That was my point.

montesquieu
02-01-2018, 11:03
Have to disagree. In the old days you were restricted to buying what the shop sold, or what was available mail order. Record companies did not give contracts to artists they did not think would sell. Now anyone can make music and release it to the world via the internet. Okay it won't be available on Spotify or Tidal but it is available. That is a good thing, surely?

For years I got BBC Music and the Grammophone to find out what was out there, and yes bought mail order. For classical, especially if you have particular specialist sub-genre interests (in my case Lieder, and some particular strands of early music) this was always necessary.

Actually I find the streaming services pretty good for :

1) finding new music - I go back and play something a few times then it's worth buying the CD or even tracking down the LP if it's available - I'm using Discogs a lot more than I used to, and

2) ruling things out - I think Spotify, if it was as comprehensive as it is now, could have saved me a lot of money over the years - though of course it's only been decent for Classical music relatively recently, it was rubbish a couple of years ago when I last looked (though there are still quite a few labels missing). I have quite a few records and CDs that have disappointed and never get played, and this might have been avoided to considerable degree.

Macca
02-01-2018, 14:09
For years I got BBC Music and the Grammophone to find out what was out there, and yes bought mail order. For classical, especially if you have particular specialist sub-genre interests (in my case Lieder, and some particular strands of early music) this was always necessary.

Actually I find the streaming services pretty good for :

1) finding new music - I go back and play something a few times then it's worth buying the CD or even tracking down the LP if it's available - I'm using Discogs a lot more than I used to, and

2) ruling things out - I think Spotify, if it was as comprehensive as it is now, could have saved me a lot of money over the years - though of course it's only been decent for Classical music relatively recently, it was rubbish a couple of years ago when I last looked (though there are still quite a few labels missing). I have quite a few records and CDs that have disappointed and never get played, and this might have been avoided to considerable degree.

I use You-Tube to check out music I might be interested in. Of course that does not have everything either.

I suppose we have to bear in mind that the Classical market is different to the market for popular music. Classical fans adopted the CD more quickly when that came out and still sustain production of SACD even though releases of popular music on that format dwindled to next to nothing a decade ago. Whole different ballgame.

I keep coming back to the psychological thing. A friend of mine said that he could happily sell his house and move into a hotel permanently, get rid of all possessions except the bare essentials (clothes, I suppose, and maybe a toothbrush and a razor) and get all his entertainment through a laptop. I can sort of see the attraction in the concept, it all sounds so clean and simple.

montesquieu
02-01-2018, 14:18
I use You-Tube to check out music I might be interested in. Of course that does not have everything either.

I suppose we have to bear in mind that the Classical market is different to the market for popular music. Classical fans adopted the CD more quickly when that came out and still sustain production of SACD even though releases of popular music on that format dwindled to next to nothing a decade ago. Whole different ballgame.

I keep coming back to the psychological thing. A friend of mine said that he could happily sell his house and move into a hotel permanently, get rid of all possessions except the bare essentials (clothes, I suppose, and maybe a toothbrush and a razor) and get all his entertainment through a laptop. I can sort of see the attraction in the concept, it all sounds so clean and simple.

I've spent far too much time travelling on business living out of hotels for that to be anything other than a complete nightmare!

Macca
02-01-2018, 15:06
I've spent far too much time travelling on business living out of hotels for that to be anything other than a complete nightmare!

You'd have to pick your hotel very carefully, that's true.

Sherwood
02-01-2018, 15:40
I use You-Tube to check out music I might be interested in. Of course that does not have everything either.

I suppose we have to bear in mind that the Classical market is different to the market for popular music. Classical fans adopted the CD more quickly when that came out and still sustain production of SACD even though releases of popular music on that format dwindled to next to nothing a decade ago. Whole different ballgame.

I keep coming back to the psychological thing. A friend of mine said that he could happily sell his house and move into a hotel permanently, get rid of all possessions except the bare essentials (clothes, I suppose, and maybe a toothbrush and a razor) and get all his entertainment through a laptop. I can sort of see the attraction in the concept, it all sounds so clean and simple.

I doubt your friend has spent that much time living "out of a suitcase" and that the experience would be sobering. I spent two years doing exactly this over a decade ago. I had just finished a long term contract in south asia and having sold my home in the UK several years earlier, decided no to return but to do short term consulting work until a new long term assignment came along. Basically, I was travelling the world between short term assignments, moving from hotel to hotel and continent to continent. Aside from 6 months spent in a serviced hotel in Bangkok, I was never in more than one place for a week or so at the most.

I know that this might sound attractive to many, and yes, I did get the opportunity for some wonderful travelling, but believe me, the attraction soon pales. I was so relieved when a suitable long term post came up and I could ditch the suitcases. As to enjoying music solely from a laptop, I cannot think of anything less appealling. Even now, with my cd collection ripped to flac and with a very high quality portable HD player, I would not relish the experience.

Geoff

WESTLOWER
02-01-2018, 16:17
I dumped a couple of thousand CDs over the past few of years. Ripped them all to hard drives using lossless transfers. I have to say I don't miss the CDs one bit.
I had been using Roon to bring Tidal and the local stored files together and I must say if it's meta data you crave then Roon seriously ticks that box. Also Roon is very stable, quick and slickly seamless.

I have a real connection with my vast Vinyl record collection and spend many hours referring to liner notes and joining the dots with the information gathered, or simply admiring the cover art.
I confess to having the odd sniff too! (weird?)

CDs never really held my love for long. I found that when I started collecting CDs years ago, the music reproduction was of pretty poor quality on quite a number of titles. This obviously improved a hell of a lot with remastered material later.
Those shitty plastic cases that always seemed to break the hinge lugs off. I hated faffing with them. The print was stupid point size too and as i got older I just couldn't read the bloody things.

I have to disagree with storing CDs too, they are horrid things to store properly. Yuk. remember those terrible CD tower contraptions, shit awful.
I kept a few in the car but they just got dished and scratched. What's more depressing than a heavily scratched CD!

I had a few obscure things on CD which were not available on Tidal and I held on to those discs but as the days pass I find more and more obscure
things on Tidal. That argument about being internet reliant is really weak...we are all reliant on some service for music reproduction, electricity being the obvious.

Dump and be free of the Evil Silver Discs... you'll not regret it.

I'll get my coat!

p.s
it has nowt to do with minimalist clutter free living, god that leaves me cold! I loves my 'stuff'.