View Full Version : Protecting Hifi from Mains problems
Mikeandvan
07-12-2017, 11:39
I live in a rented flat, and I ;ve had 3 amps go bang on me in 3 years. Lucky not crazy expensive. My Naim amps have always been fine. I've just bought a Nak ca-5 and I'm too scared to plug it in (don't have a power amp yet anyway!). Waste of time speaking to landlord, is there an extension lead with protection I can buy to stop this happening again? Its already cost me £300 in wasted amps (possibly more). I had a JVX ax-4 and a Roksan Kandy that I never got to hear, the Kandys' power output stage was frazzled, and it defo happened in my flat, as seller demo ed it to me. It was mint too, boo hoo. I also get light bulbs blowing every month or so, when turned on.
walpurgis
07-12-2017, 11:50
Yes. I get light bulbs blowing a lot and had a mains transfomer in an amp need replacing. It could be highish voltage locally or surges and spikes. I'm also wary of DC content in mains and I'm planning to use a DC blocker. Useful surge and spike protectors are used with professional computers. I have one or two of these.
Maplin's (And most electrical suppliers) sell surge protectors or you could buy a UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) and that way you can still listen to your music if the power goes off (amount of time dependant on size of UPS).
I live in a rented flat, and I ;ve had 3 amps go bang on me in 3 years. Lucky not crazy expensive. My Naim amps have always been fine. I've just bought a Nak ca-5 and I'm too scared to plug it in (don't have a power amp yet anyway!). Waste of time speaking to landlord, is there an extension lead with protection I can buy to stop this happening again? Its already cost me £300 in wasted amps (possibly more). I had a JVX ax-4 and a Roksan Kandy that I never got to hear, the Kandys' power output stage was frazzled, and it defo happened in my flat, as seller demo ed it to me. It was mint too, boo hoo. I also get light bulbs blowing every month or so, when turned on.
a mains regenerator would do it
Doesn't explain why the Naim is seemingly immune from the problem.
Primalsea
07-12-2017, 13:48
Surge protectors could potentially work to protect against over voltage problems but with the amount that you suggest the problem happens you would have to replace the surge protector regularly as the devices inside can tend to degrade a little each time they operate. Be wary of the claims that the manufacturers make about the financial level of compensation available if the protector was to fail. There are so many caveats in the T&Cs that you will have more chance of a unicorn flying through your living room, shitting chocolate rainbows on a Thursday between the hours of 9 and 10 pm than getting a payout.
A mains regeneration device would probably protect your gear, but they are not cheap. Sounds like the real cure would be to sort the electrics out but this could be either a problem with the building electrics or a national grid problem.
Haselsh1
07-12-2017, 14:45
Mmm... strange one this as back in 2012 I bought a Tacima surge protected block via Amazon and about a year later my then CD player went 'pop'. A year after that my Pioneer SACD player went 'pop' via the same block.
For the last three years I have used a bog standard plain old block and not had a problem. I still don't understand what the hell could have happened there.
Oh yes, both occurred in different houses.
Could just be random equipment failure and absolutely nothing to do with the mains, or mains surges. In fact I'd put money on it. Stuff does just go pop sometimes, even well respected hi-fi brands.
Haselsh1
07-12-2017, 15:40
Could just be random equipment failure and absolutely nothing to do with the mains, or mains surges. In fact I'd put money on it. Stuff does just go pop sometimes, even well respected hi-fi brands.
Yep, neither of them were particularly expensive items.
Could just be random equipment failure and absolutely nothing to do with the mains, or mains surges. In fact I'd put money on it. Stuff does just go pop sometimes, even well respected hi-fi brands.
Agreed - though it might be useful to know if the mains voltage is consitently high (> 250V).
RothwellAudio
07-12-2017, 15:51
Could just be random equipment failure and absolutely nothing to do with the mains, or mains surges.
Yes, indeed, or the failures might not be random and be due to frayed wire at the ends of the speaker cable or some such cause. I think jumping to the conclusion that it's a problem with the mains is a bit premature.
hifi_dave
07-12-2017, 15:59
Yes. I get light bulbs blowing a lot and had a mains transfomer in an amp need replacing. It could be highish voltage locally or surges and spikes. I'm also wary of DC content in mains and I'm planning to use a DC blocker. Useful surge and spike protectors are used with professional computers. I have one or two of these.
We go through light bulbs at an alarming rate but only the modern ones. We have a couple of ancient bulbs which go on and on, while the modern ones with smaller glass bulbs last only a few weeks.
They don't make em like they used to..:idea:
We go through light bulbs at an alarming rate but only the modern ones. We have a couple of ancient bulbs which go on and on, while the modern ones with smaller glass bulbs last only a few weeks.
They don't make em like they used to..:idea:
Are your "modern" light bulbs incandescent or LED?
hifi_dave
07-12-2017, 16:08
We have all sorts. Some rooms are Halogen downlights, some are LED but the ones I am talking about are incandescent, which give a warmer light.
Have you checked what voltage comes out of your mains sockets?
I had solar panels fitted and the inverter tripped one-day.
So i did a bit of digging and it turned out the mains voltage was set too high at the sub station.
The nearer you are the higher the voltage.
Anyway i contacted the leccy company and they fitted a device in my house that monitored the voltage constantly for 2 weeks. it showed that the voltage reached 265volts periodically.
So they came out and adjusted the tapping in the sub station. All good now.
Lots of appliances are rated to 230v. not the nearer to 250volts from uk sockets.
Mikeandvan
07-12-2017, 16:52
Doesn't explain why the Naim is seemingly immune from the problem.
Quite, I've used Olive and Black Naim kit for 3 years in this current flat, all been fine, and yes, I leave them on all the time! As stated I blew one Roksan, one old JVC ax-4.
Mikeandvan
07-12-2017, 16:53
I probably should have stated, I live above a busy restaurant.
Mikeandvan
07-12-2017, 16:55
Maplin's (And most electrical suppliers) sell surge protectors or you could buy a UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) and that way you can still listen to your music if the power goes off (amount of time dependant on size of UPS).
My power never goes off, it is 100% consistent. Would a surge protector do the trick? They seem cheap enough. BTW the amps have gone bang on switch on, they've never gotten past that stage. The Naims have been 100% fine. I did briefly try another Jap amp, some very cheap Yamaha, that was fine too.
Mikeandvan
07-12-2017, 17:02
a mains regenerator would do it
They're also known as mains conditioners right?
Thanks, can you tell me of any cheapish ones? A quick Google has thrown up £5k monstrosities!
Mikeandvan
07-12-2017, 17:10
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tacima-CS-947-6-Way-Mains-Conditioner-With-RF-Filtering-and-Surge-Protection/152293665572?hash=item237568eb24:g:q48AAOSwjDZYlIm T
Only £40 and it gets a What hi-fi 5 stars!
Landloper
07-12-2017, 17:16
Aren't regenerators intended to provide a consistent stable power supply to your components regardless of drops and highs in the mains being fed into it, while conditioners aim to filter out nasties such as RFI and so on?
Mikeandvan
07-12-2017, 17:28
Surge protectors could potentially work to protect against over voltage problems but with the amount that you suggest the problem happens you would have to replace the surge protector regularly as the devices inside can tend to degrade a little each time they operate. Be wary of the claims that the manufacturers make about the financial level of compensation available if the protector was to fail. There are so many caveats in the T&Cs that you will have more chance of a unicorn flying through your living room, shitting chocolate rainbows on a Thursday between the hours of 9 and 10 pm than getting a payout.
A mains regeneration device would probably protect your gear, but they are not cheap. Sounds like the real cure would be to sort the electrics out but this could be either a problem with the building electrics or a national grid problem.
A unicorn shitting chocolate rainbows, you must have noticed I live in Brighton!
So a mains regenerator, is this the same as a mains conditioner?
Mikeandvan
07-12-2017, 17:41
Just to add my cdps, tuners, power supplies, and TTs have always been fine. It just seems to be the amps I have trouble with (again the Naim are immune to it). So I only need 2 sockets for pre and power amps to be treated. Really don't want any more amps getting thrown in the bin.
A mains conditioner is of debatable benefit. A mains regenerator is a completely different beast and as you noted, costs proper money.
Many power strips and surge suppressors have a device in them that is one use only. If a big spike occurs it will blow this internal component and save your gear. But then it keeps on working without protection after that. The light in the toggle switch will no longer light or some barely noticeable signal that it has tripped, if any.
I use a UPS, uninterruptible power supply, made for computers. But it cost a fair piece, they do make smaller ones but depending on the size of your amps, you don’t want to restrict them amperage wise. Once many years ago, after a huge hurricane my power was out for 9 days! And I was able to play the stereo every night for 4 or 5 hours at low volumes to avoid going mad. Mine is an APC 1000, an older model that puts out a clean sine wave. Many newer computer backups put out square waves, so be sure of what you have. The specs on my unit tell me how much over voltage it can adjust before it cuts off and goes to battery power. But I’ve had this unit for 20 years and replaced the batteries in it only once. It’s given me excellent service and I do believe the stereo sounds better with it.
Big regenerators made especially for stereo can get pricy, and hopefully work as advertised. We also use Furman brand PA gear power conditioners that are only a few hundred bucks to protect our band equipment, and wouldn’t leave home without them! They work, period. The abuse our PA has endured over the past 15 years could fill a book! But no loses due to power problems. 10 years ago someone plugged our rack into a high voltage socket and blew up the Furman, and Furman repaired it for the cost of shipping!
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Mikeandvan
07-12-2017, 20:33
A mains conditioner is of debatable benefit. A mains regenerator is a completely different beast and as you noted, costs proper money.
Would this work?
https://airlinktransformers.com/product/standard-balanced-power-supply-bps3000uk
nutteronthebus
07-12-2017, 20:54
Try a BT mains conditioner 5A when I worked for a living we used these all the time on PABX out in the sticks where the power was a bit dodgy (one on e-bay for £105)
Dave
PS keep away from the amps by a few feet as they do have a magnetic field
Mikeandvan
07-12-2017, 23:47
Try a BT mains conditioner 5A when I worked for a living we used these all the time on PABX out in the sticks where the power was a bit dodgy (one on e-bay for £105)
Dave
PS keep away from the amps by a few feet as they do have a magnetic field
I saw one of these earlier! Says its property of BT though...................
nutteronthebus
08-12-2017, 07:38
Hi when I worked there BT lost a large amount of customers ( due to the openreach cock up of putting PABX out of Global services in to openreach ) and these unit were scraped even though they worked ok . A mate who lives on a farm has 5 of these due to bad mains
Dave
I used to live on one of the smaller Orkney isles and ran a PC business, I needed to keep my servers running as my customers were from all over Orkney and the Scottish mainland (OK if the power was off for more than a few hours I was in trouble but at least it gave me time to send out warning emails and do orderly shutdowns) and like Russell I used APC UPS's.
The larger ones came with software that allowed you to monitor the voltages. It was frightening to see the fluctuations with voltages going up and down all over the place (Although you knew as all the lights would change intensity and things would turn off and spring back to life in front of your eyes) and it's no surprise that things going "Pop" was a regular occurrence in places like Orkney (Things have improved recently but not to anything like big city standards).
If it's as bad as you say, then look at UPS's for you more valuable kit.
Primalsea
08-12-2017, 09:16
Without really knowing what the issue is with the mains it will be difficult to know for sure what you really need, and as Macca said, you may have just had bad luck with the hifi gear that went pop.
However, if it is voltage fluctuations then this looks interesting https://www.tripplite.com/230v-automatic-voltage-switch-surge-protection-190-joules-direct-plug-in~AVS5D/
Mikeandvan
08-12-2017, 15:37
I used to live on one of the smaller Orkney isles and ran a PC business, I needed to keep my servers running as my customers were from all over Orkney and the Scottish mainland (OK if the power was off for more than a few hours I was in trouble but at least it gave me time to send out warning emails and do orderly shutdowns) and like Russell I used APC UPS's.
The larger ones came with software that allowed you to monitor the voltages. It was frightening to see the fluctuations with voltages going up and down all over the place (Although you knew as all the lights would change intensity and things would turn off and spring back to life in front of your eyes) and it's no surprise that things going "Pop" was a regular occurrence in places like Orkney (Things have improved recently but not to anything like big city standards).
If it's as bad as you say, then look at UPS's for you more valuable kit.
Whats a UPS?
Mikeandvan
08-12-2017, 15:38
Without really knowing what the issue is with the mains it will be difficult to know for sure what you really need, and as Macca said, you may have just had bad luck with the hifi gear that went pop.
However, if it is voltage fluctuations then this looks interesting https://www.tripplite.com/230v-automatic-voltage-switch-surge-protection-190-joules-direct-plug-in~AVS5D/
Landlords gonna send around a sparky, he mentioned putting a surge protector socket in. That thing you linked looks good, and only £20. I could get one for each socket. Think I'll order one now, wanna hear my new amp!
RothwellAudio
08-12-2017, 16:37
Whats a UPS?
Uninterruptible power supply.
walpurgis
08-12-2017, 16:48
Uninterruptible power supply.
Or.
http://i67.tinypic.com/11ueuf6.jpg
:D
Landlords gonna send around a sparky, he mentioned putting a surge protector socket in. That thing you linked looks good, and only £20. I could get one for each socket. Think I'll order one now, wanna hear my new amp!
A surge protector socket, like the ones they install in bathrooms, is only a circuit breaker, like found in your fuse box, except it’s right at the point of use. So if you step in the tub with the hair dryer it will Trip the breaker much faster and hopefully not kill you. How much effect it will have on hi fi is questionable. It could protect from a big surge or lightning strike perhaps? Usually by the time it trips, things are already very bad.
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Nothing protects from a lightening strike.
There is something... Make sure your gear is unplugged from the wall! That's the first thing I do in stormy weather. A lightening strike will do hee-haw damage if your kit is disconnected from the mains supply ;)
Marco.
Some eye candy.....
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171211/7112575d1b0dd7930676dc6e17fd39a5.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171211/b1615b694579aeda06adb2b7f93e7824.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171211/548664e35352f4707e89292de8c5ba46.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171211/b981d4adc14276cea4dc368025963e25.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171211/fb334ee47e52eadb729c1395b281a8fc.jpg
These are what I call stereo worthy power conditioners, but it’s only my opinion. Many may say they are overkill, while others will say they are not quality enough, etc. but if you’ve got even a few thousand invested in your gear, the price of one of these machines, even used, would be easily justified. I’m my humble opinion of course.
Russell
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There is something... Make sure your gear is unplugged from the wall! That's the first thing I do in stormy weather. A lightening strike will do hee-haw damage if your kit is disconnected from the mains supply ;)
Marco.
I only unplug the aerials to the tuner and TV if I'm feeling paranoic, otherwise I assume that lightning is just as likely to strike neighbouring houses as it is my own.
I'm in the middle of an enormously long and unbroken row of terraces so I'd have to be very unlucky for it to single me out. Electrical storms are very rare around here anyway.
My father had a work colleague whose house was actually struck by lightning. It demolished a good part of the house. Some broken electronic gadgets were the least of his worries. Fortunately no-one was in the house at the time.
walpurgis
11-12-2017, 17:40
I'm in the middle of an enormously long and unbroken row of terraces so I'd have to be very unlucky for it to single me out.
But if your number comes up! :eek:
:lolsign:
Nothing protects from a lightening strike.
Grecian 2000?
Mikeandvan
12-12-2017, 23:59
Landlord sent a sparky around, says all is fine, then why have 3 amps blown on me? Me think sparky just came around and made himself tea. Anyway I bought one of these for the amp socket. Only £20, can't be arsed to spend more than that. Thanks to Primalsea.
https://www.tripplite.com/230v-automatic-voltage-switch-surge-protection-190-joules-direct-plug-in~AVS5D/
walpurgis
13-12-2017, 00:02
Looks a handy gizmo.
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