Keeping hifi on

[James the Albarry lover]

Just thought I'd touch a little on this subject, alot of people have mixed feelings about it but I always leave my Albarry's and cd player on I've read else where that the constant change in temperature from warming up to cooling down can shorten the life of your Caps and valves along with other bits and pieces, I've also noticed a good change in sound when my hifi has been left on as appose to warming it up for an hour before every listen, of course there's the other side to it such as burning through electric and the obvious danger of leaving things switched on

[struth]

You shorten the life of components like caps by constant use plus it's potentially dangerous

[JimC]

Tommy Flowers recommended leaving the Valves in Colossus powered on all the time.
I just can't afford the lekky bill and I don't think my Insurance Company would be too happy if there was a fire !!

Mine all starts to 'sing' after half an hour or so and I quite like the experience of hearing that happen.

Jim.

[Haselsh1]

You shorten the life of components like caps by constant use plus it's potentially dangerous

:thumbsup:

[Haselsh1]

Mine all starts to 'sing' after half an hour or so and I quite like the experience of hearing that happen.

Jim.Yep, mine is pretty much the same regarding the warm up period.

[walpurgis]

My amplifiers and DAC's definitely 'come on song' after twenty minutes to half an hour, depending on what I'm using, but I'd never leave equipment on 24/7 for the reasons mentioned previously.

[Scooby]

There was a long thread on this very topic just a few months ago. I tried finding it but I haven't been able to so far. Anyone recall its name?

[agk]

I wouldn't worry too much Andy. This one will soon be in double figures.

[Yomanze]

As far as I know Albarrys are class B amps, which means no quiescent current when no music is playing. The opposite to a pure class A amp that is constantly drawing a full load. Thus the Albarrys sit in a sort of “standby”, so much safer to leave on than some other gear.

[argustimewas]

I leave mine on stand-by so neither fully on nor off I guess.

[James the Albarry lover]

As far as I know Albarrys are class B amps, which means no quiescent current when no music is playing. The opposite to a pure class A amp that is constantly drawing a full load. Thus the Albarrys sit in a sort of “standby”, so much safer to leave on than some other gear.

That's nice to know I remember seeing old manuals for Albarrys telling you to leave them on to improve reliability

[Audio Al]

OFF when not in use here ;)

[Barry]

Electrostatic speakers constantly powered-up (apart from two house moves and about three power cuts, they've been powered on for the last forty five years). Preamps and phonostages are also left on all the time (except when on holiday). CD player in standby (electronics on, laser off). And the power amps off when not in use. I've not noticed any change in SQ on warm up with the latter, nor have I noticed they sound any better when I have come down the following morning to find I have left them on all night!

[hifi_dave]

That's nice to know I remember seeing old manuals for Albarrys telling you to leave them on to improve reliability

Albarry monos improve quite noticeably after 30 minutes but nothing beyond that. I wouldn't leave them or anything else permanently powered up.

[Scooby]

For me it depends on how often I use it. If I'm listening every single day for longer periods, I leave it on. If I'm only listening weekends or even less frequently, I unplug it and simply warm it up half an hour before my next listen.

I'm conscious of the arguments about stressing trannys by constant switch off and on, but I'm also aware of the fact capacitors normally have a lifespan rated in hours. I don't therefore want to keep them powered when I'm not listening for ages and there is also the fact that heat can wear and stress other components. Then again, leaving stuff unpowered for long periods can allow caps to deform.

I'm not out to convince anyone either way: just setting out the arguments I weigh up. Whatever you do with your own kit should be your own choice.....'cos it's only you who will be listening and paying for any servicing/repairs ;)

[speedracer]

I always turn mine off when I have finished listening, not worth leaving the Cd player on when I only listen to it once every blue moon, & having a valve pre/phono & power amp I turn them off too, as much for the cost of valves as anything else. I agree they take 20 minutes to half an hour to start coming on song though so I turn it all on about 45 mins before a session.

[RobbieGong]

Kit off when not in use, fire up a good few hours before a sesh :)

[alphaGT]

Since I do have the backup power filter, I leave my pre and CD and amp in standby. But, especially in the Summer, I’ll switch the amp off when not in use. And while it does sound better after it’s warmed up, it’s not stopping me from enjoying it from a cold start. It’s not horrible when it’s cold, just slightly better after it’s warmed up. I can understand that tube gear is more temperature dependant. But I haven’t gone there just yet


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[Yomanze]

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/14/server_retired_after_18_years_and_ten_months_beat_ that_readers/


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[Pharos]

I'm not sure about the life expectancy of caps re intermittent versus full time on, and the stresses of intermittency are high and repeated of course.

I think most equipment is optimised for its equilibrated temperature after running for a while, and so it will sound better when it reaches that state. Valves will age wit hours used, and the geta get used up.

[Scooby]

I finally found the thread I mentioned. It was more than a few months ago, but lots of interesting points which the OP may wish to consider:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?46067-Do-you-turn-your-amp-off-or-leave-it-on&highlight=Thermal

I LOVE the archive of threads here. It's such a great source of information.

[James the Albarry lover]

My Albarry's are from the 80s and have never been opened, the owner before me always had them on if they've lasted this long like that I'm gonna stick with keeping them on

[Edward]

I leave the Radford on when I fancy having the room warmed up when the central heating is off. :lol:

Otherwise I turn things off ....

[Marco]

I leave all my solid-state equipment switched on 24/7 [valve gear is always powered down when not in use], simply because I like it ready to sound its best, as soon as it's used, rather than having to wait half an hour or so for it to 'warm up' and perform optimally, but most importantly because experience has shown that it's likely to last longer that way!

I'm afraid that I don't buy the components 'wearing out' quicker theory, if gear is left switched on, as again the results of personal experience disproves it, or rather shows that the thinking is flawed. My Sony CDP and DAC, for example, have been powered up 24/7 for the last 6 years, with no problems whatsoever, and I'd expect the same to be the case in another 6 years. Previously I had a Naim system that was also left switched on for many years, with zero issues.

Quite simply, experience tells me that equipment is most likely to fail, at the point of switch on, due to the inrush of current, which stresses components much more than when they're being left to function in a steady state, and so should be switched on and off as little as possible. Of course there will always be exceptions to the rule, as components can suddenly fail for a number of reasons, but in general, electronic components are happiest simply left 'doing their thing'.

Therefore, folks, the only really valid reason for switching your gear off when it's not being used, other than when you're away from home for long periods of time (always a good idea from safety point of view), is to save electricity! :cool:

Marco.

[speedracer]

I leave all my solid-state equipment switched on 24/7 [valve gear is always powered down when not in use], simply because I like it ready to sound its best, as soon as it's used, rather than having to wait half an hour or so for it to 'warm up' and perform optimally, but most importantly because experience has shown that it's likely to last longer that way!
Marco.

I have often wondered about this, indeed I say it myself, but I wonder if part of the reason we think our systems sound better after a warm up period is because we as listeners have to warm up & relax into listening to music, so that after a period of say 20 minutes it is OURSELVES that have to get into the right zone & get more in tune with what we are listening to.

Thoughts?

[Marco]

Hi Brook,

As human beings, we can't ever completely rule out a reaction to some form of emotional response, so us 'warming up' too, could be part of it. However, having experienced the effect 100s of times over the years, in all sorts of different environments and with various types of equipment, I suspect there's more to it than that.

My view is that, just as electronic components function more reliably when in a state state of operation, so do they also perform optimally (in a sonic sense), when in said steady state, which reflects on the sound we hear from the associated equipment, and the music reproduced.

However, by 'steady state' I don't simply mean that this is arrived at immediately after equipment has been switched on, but some time afterwards, which equates to the 'warming up' period I mentioned. In my experience, this is normally reached within 30 mins or so of equipment being powered up - and crucially, has had a music signal put through it.

That last bit is important, if for no other reason than to 'warm up' the voice coils in your speakers, which the sound will be coming through! ;)

Marco.

[Macca]

I have often wondered about this, indeed I say it myself, but I wonder if part of the reason we think our systems sound better after a warm up period is because we as listeners have to warm up & relax into listening to music, so that after a period of say 20 minutes it is OURSELVES that have to get into the right zone & get more in tune with what we are listening to.

Thoughts?

I think that is far more likely to be the case, with solid state components anyway. I've never heard an improvement after 'warm up' that was so noticeable it could not simply be attributed to imagination. It's a classic case of audiophilia nervosa IME.

[Marco]

I beg to differ. See my last post...

It's not anything to fret about, though... Simply switch on your system, go and make a cup of tea, and by the time it's brewed properly, you've cut yourself a nice slice of homemade fruit cake, and sat down, you'll be ready to rock and roll! :fingers::hairmetal:

Marco.

[Beobloke]

To all those people who leave their systems powered - do you also leave your car engines running all night when you're not using them? After all, we all know a car drives better when its warmed up.

;)

[Macca]

I beg to differ. See my last post...

It's not anything to fret about, though... Simply switch on your system, go and make a cup of tea, and by the time it's brewed properly, you've cut yourself a nice slice of homemade fruit cake, and sat down, you'll be ready to rock and roll! :fingers::hairmetal:

Marco.

I'm more likely to be getting a Guinness and rolling a ciggy, but I do like to switch everything on 5 minutes or so before listening. The way I see it, if it can't warm up to full performance in 5 minutes it isn't fit for purpose. In reality I've never heard a difference with anything solid state, whether I give it 5 minutes or not. For valve equipment my jury is still out but since you can't leave that switched on all the time it's moot.

In fact I'll go further and argue that speakers should need a warm up more than anything else, especially if they have been sat unused in a cold room. But since it is impossible to separate speaker warm up from amp and source warm up simply by listening, it is again a moot point.

[Marco]

Ciggies and Guinness - boak! :spew: ;)


In fact I'll go further and argue that speakers should need a warm up more than anything else, especially if they have been sat unused in a cold room.

Rooms should never be left cold (to prevent dampness, aside from anything else), especially when any serious listening is done, as the sound will be shit, and with thermostatically controlled central heating these days, there's no reason for any part of your home to be cold or damp.

Realistically, however, what you've said will be where most of the improvement heard is coming from, as undoubtedly speakers need to 'warm up' more than electronics.

A couple of interesting experiences I've had at Scalford, when demonstrating AoS systems (largely made up of my own equipment and speakers, which I knew inside out), which throw some doubt on that view though, were when we had (painstakingly) set up the system the night before and left it all switched on [yes even the valve amps], so that the sound would be at its best, for punters coming in at 10 am...

And when playing the same music I'd been doing the night before, with no other variables changed - and the speakers unused for about 7 hours, and cold - the sound was markedly better (smoother and more 'fleshed out'), also the system seemed to be performing more effortlessly, which I can assure you wasn't imagined. It also got progressively better once the speakers had been playing music for an hour or so, and thus had also been 'warmed up'.

I've also noticed at these shows, and I doubt it's simply coincidence, that the systems demonstrated always sound better towards the end of the day, a view also shared by the exhibitors themselves, who've been listening to them throughout day, often using the same selection of music, and experienced the same change...

As ever in audio, it's easy to simply dismiss that which can't easily be proved as 'imagined', especially if it doesn't conform to one's scientific belief system or how we think 'things should work', but that's often at the expense of seeing the bigger picture and considering that such experiences could be real - and learning from them. Then using that information to our benefit in future.

That's certainly how I go about things (how my head works), and over the years, I believe have gained significantly from it :cool:

Marco.

[Macca]

Ciggies and Guinness - boak! :spew: ;)




A couple of interesting experiences I've had at Scalford, when demonstrating AoS systems (largely made up of my own equipment and speakers, which I knew inside out), which throw some doubt on that view though, were when we had (painstakingly) set up the system the night before and left it all switched on [yes even the valve amps], so that the sound would be at its best for punters coming in at 10 am...

And when playing the same music I'd been doing the night before, with no other variables changed - and the speakers unused for about 7 hours, and cold - the sound was markedly better (smoother and more 'fleshed out'), also also the system seemed to be performing more effortlessly, which I can assure you wasn't imagined. It also got progressively even better once the speakers had been playing music for an hour or so, and thus had also been 'warmed up'.

I've also noticed at these shows, and I doubt it's simply coincidence, that the systems demonstrated always sound better towards the end of the day, a view also shared by the exhibitors themselves who've been listening to them all day, often using the same selection of music...

As ever in audio, it's easy to simply dismiss that which can't easily be proved as 'imagined', especially if it doesn't conform to one's scientific belief system or how we think 'things should work', but that's often at the expense of seeing the bigger picture and considering that such experiences could be real - and learning from them. Then using that information to our benefit in future.

.

Sure, I agree with your final paragraph. However I would argue that one of the biggest, possibly the biggest problem in audio is not what people hear, but the reason they ascribe to it. In the Scalford situation you describe, leaving aside that it is the next day and your physical and psychological condition is going to be different, you also have to ask if it was the same music being played, was it being played at exactly the same volume, were you listening from the same place in the room, and so on?

Perhaps it was warm-up that was improving the sound. But perhaps it was one of a number of other variables. I'm not one for asking for definitive proof, but I don't like to jump to conclusions either. My own experience has been that there is zero benefit, but of course this is also subject to the same caveats.

I'd suggest there are far more important and relevant issues in audio today that should be addressed first before we worry about sub-optimal performance due to lack of warm up.

[walpurgis]

To all those people who leave their systems powered - do you also leave your car engines running all night when you're not using them? After all, we all know a car drives better when its warmed up.

;)

:lol:

[James the Albarry lover]

Yes I agree, you need to be in the right mood for it or you just won't enjoy it. I think alot of non hifi people are like this, they just aren't in the right mind set to get that enjoyment out of hifi I feel really sorry for those people

[Marco]

However I would argue that one of the biggest, possibly the biggest problem in audio is not what people hear, but the reason they ascribe to it. In the Scalford situation you describe, leaving aside that it is the next day and your physical and psychological condition is going to be different, you also have to ask if it was the same music being played, was it being played at exactly the same volume, were you listening from the same place in the room, and so on?


Yeah I get that, and agree. However, I also think that dismissing everything that can't be neatly proven by our current learning, as 'imagined', is equally as big a problem, so the key is always to keep an open mind, and examine the less obvious as well as the obvious.

To answer your questions in order, having been up until late the night before, setting up the system and not getting that much sleep (I never sleep as well in hotel bedrooms, as I do at home), and feeling quite tired as a result, and as I'm not a morning person anyway, then if anything, my physical and psychological condition would've been worse than it was the night before. So in that respect, there was no reason for the system to have sounded better .

Yes, the music was played at the same volume, because I simply hit the play button on the CD I had last been listening to before going to bed, without touching the volume control, and yes, I was sat in the same seat (prime position in the middle of the speakers, two rows back), as I had been the night before.

None of that, of course, necessarily proves anything, but it does suggest the possibility of the improvement being real, and that's certainly what I believe, given that most of the variables remained the same from the night before. It also shows that, as the speakers were stone cold, having not been used for 7 hours, that the improvement heard was not as a result of anything to do with speaker 'warm up'.


I'd suggest there are far more important and relevant issues in audio today that should be addressed first before we worry about sub-optimal performance due to lack of warm up.

Indeed, although if what I'm suggesting works, it's a rather easy thing to do, in order to experience the benefit. And anything that genuinely increases one's listening pleasure, no matter how small, has got to be worthwhile :cool:

Marco.

[Marco]

To all those people who leave their systems powered - do you also leave your car engines running all night when you're not using them? After all, we all know a car drives better when its warmed up.

;)

In the same way as women 'perform' better after similarly being 'warmed up'? :eyebrows:

Marco.

[struth]

a good woman starts first turn;)

[Macca]

Might start first turn but then you find the clutch sticks a bit in third gear.

[struth]

Might start first turn but then you find the clutch sticks a bit in third gear.

keep well oiled and you'll be hunky dory

[Marco]

Lol - I could say plenty, but I'm shy, and it's a family forum! :D

Marco.

[James the Albarry lover]

Lol - I could say plenty, but I'm shy, and it's a family forum! :D

Marco.

Can you age restrict threads? :eyebrows::lol:

[hifi_dave]

When I'm doing a demonstration, I always like the speakers to warm up for 5 minutes or so, as they seem to suffer at least as much as electronics by being cold. Not always possible though, as customers want a quick switch over.

[Yomanze]

For sure LFD gear is a tiny bit more bright when cold, takes around 15 minutes and voila, the true balance of the sound is there.

[anthonyTD]

Speakers can be the biggest issue if you live in a house where the temperature isnt constant, my system changes wildly with the weather...
As for electronics in genral, I would always advise turning everything off when not in use, good, well designed equipment shouldnt need more than around a half hour to stabilise, and come on song.:)
A.

[wee tee cee]

57s are a pig to come on song if switched off.

Have took to leaving them on of late.......hopefully the smell of smoke will wake me!

[anthonyTD]

:eek:
There are of course exceptions, Stats do indeed benefit from being left on longer to stabilise.
A...
57s are a pig to come on song if switched off.

Have took to leaving them on of late.......hopefully the smell of smoke will wake me!

[Martyn Miles]

I, like most ( I suspect ) on this Forum, switch on to listen to the music and switch off
when they’ve finished.

[Pete The Cat]

Always switched off here when not in use. But to the bigger issue, I'm never quite sure whether it's the system that improves about 20 minutes in, or I improve as the first pint takes effect... :cool:

Pete

[walpurgis]

It's the system, but the beer doesn't hurt. :)



.

[Barry]

57s are a pig to come on song if switched off.

Have took to leaving them on of late.......hopefully the smell of smoke will wake me!

Apart from two house moves and maybe three power cuts, my '57s have been powered up for forty five years.

If switched off they are usable withing a couple of minutes and won't improve any further after maybe 20 minutes, but it is best to leave them on (the late Peter Walker recommended doing so, and that is what he did: only switching them off when going away on holiday). Switching them on and off doesn't do the diodes in the Cockroft-Walton voltage multipiers much good.

[Spectral Morn]

I would no longer advocate leaving gear on, I used to and some gear does benefit from being left on, but having recently had a piece of kit catch fire and stink the house out for days, I won't anymore.

I was in the room, smelt it and was able to get it out of the house, but if I had not been it could have set fire to the curtains.

So do not leave anything switched on unattended.

[alphaGT]

It seems that much of the high fi out there has a built in stand-by mode. Most of my components are made so if you power down, it’s still in standby, only unplugging it will completely cut it off. Seems designers think it’s important? Or at least the designers of my gear anyway. I purposely placed my amp on top of a rack so I can reach behind it and cut it completely off, it does stay fairly warm in standby mode.

Thinking back on what Marco said, what if we install a bank of solar panels to power our stereos, and nothing else? Would that bring back our glory days?


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[Marco]

That would be an interesting one, Russell.... Someone should try it :)

Marco.

[alphaGT]

That would be an interesting one, Russell.... Someone should try it :)

Marco.

I recall seeing a product maybe 20 years ago in a magazine, a huge box, loaded with batteries. It plugged into the wall, and stayed fully charged but when you turned on the hi-fi it ran off the batteries only. The big drawback was the stereo pieces were made by the same manufacturer and were only compatible with this battery unit. The DC ran directly to the rails of the amp, preamp, CD, or whatever components they offered. Probably why it died before it got off the ground? It made sense in that it did away with the high voltage AC current in the system completely.

It wouldn’t be hard to make your own, to have a box filled with lead acid batteries, or lithium ion batteries? Large enough to create the current needs of a large stereo, with a well regulated inverter to create household mains voltage, so they any gear could be used. If it could run for 8 hours on a charge, completely off the grid, solar panels optional.


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[AJSki2fly]

Yes I agree, you need to be in the right mood for it or you just won't enjoy it. I think alot of non hifi people are like this, they just aren't in the right mind set to get that enjoyment out of hifi I feel really sorry for those people

Personally I find that warming up my ears first really helps, giving them a good rub down, it gets the aural sonics working and helps improve the musical reality. :lol:

[alphaGT]

Personally I find that warming up my ears first really helps, giving them a good rub down, it gets the aural sonics working and helps improve the musical reality. :lol:

There’s something to this! I’ve got an ear wash kit, and it helps to blow the wax out of my head every 6 months or so, a noticeable improvement in sound.


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[agk]

:popcorn:

[Pharos]

With the increase in effort on battery technology, and improvement, and the tendency to class D amps, the direct supply of DC looks even better.