View Full Version : Vinyl or CD?
James the Albarry lover
03-12-2017, 15:10
Some time in the near future I'll be upgrading my source but I don't know what to go for I find the idea of vinyl very appealing even the whole physical side of it leads me to think I would get more enjoyment out of it
Then again CD is what I know and love, the simplicity of it and next to zero maintenance is good if you just wanna listen to music without any fuss and placement in my tiny room might not work for vinyl
My experience with vinyl is very limited or next to none I've heard some cheap crap that hasn't been cleaned or looked after and I wouldn't really count that as an experience
I want to know how do the two different sounds compare and what's your opinion on the matter
How much are you prepared to invest in either time or money, or probably both?
Do you have any records? Re-releases are expensive and often not very good quality, old second hand albums are a crap shoot there days (excuse the Americanism).
If answers above are none or not much then I'd move cautiously if at all into vinyl. If however you have interest in material only available on record, be it 33 or 45 or 78, or enjoy the tactility, or prioritise the organic qualities of reproduction that analogue can bring then have a play. It's loads of fun!
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Haselsh1
03-12-2017, 15:23
It is very easy to always say "Stick with what you know" but had human kind always done that we would still be flying biplanes. I like many have both and for me CD just edges forward of vinyl. Most of our electronic music is only on CD so this narrows things down a bit but Sue and I have always agreed that CD is way more forceful and in your face than vinyl in our system. Yes, this may be down to using an Audiolab M-DAC with it's transient filtering but it certainly suits our main choice of music. Also, Sue is a huge fan of Metallica and it suits this just as much. So, in answer to your query, I think it is best to have both. You can never have too many options can you...?
Haselsh1
03-12-2017, 15:26
Oh yes of course, multi disc albums, getting up to change sides every three tracks. Constantly cleaning and using anti static devices. Ticks and pops albeit very infrequently. Yeah...? Sounding good...?
:eyebrows:
I, like many, junked vinyl in the early 90s.
To be honest the "ritual" regarding LP playback was, I think overestimated and the poor, warped, recycled vinyl releases put out by mainstream labels in the last year's of the golden age made me glad to switch to CD.
Being a typically fickle erm...hifi lover, I have often gazed with jealous eyes at the beautiful modern and vintage TTs around these days but I jolt myself back to ground when I consider the price of new plastic compared to new and used COs, to say nothing of the tedious cleaning and dusting.
Imho CD replay can be a nice experience with carefully matched kit.....My top tip....get you self a tube pre or buffer.
By buying CDs instead of vinyl you'll soon have enough cash to finance the purchase.
Some time in the near future I'll be upgrading my source but I don't know what to go for I find the idea of vinyl very appealing even the whole physical side of it leads me to think I would get more enjoyment out of it
Then again CD is what I know and love, the simplicity of it and next to zero maintenance is good if you just wanna listen to music without any fuss and placement in my tiny room might not work for vinyl
My experience with vinyl is very limited or next to none I've heard some cheap crap that hasn't been cleaned or looked after and I wouldn't really count that as an experience
I want to know how do the two different sounds compare and what's your opinion on the matter
How many CDs do you have?
How many records do you have?
James the Albarry lover
03-12-2017, 15:57
How many CDs do you have?
How many records do you have?
About 50 CDs
0 records
walpurgis
03-12-2017, 16:06
Playing records does not have to cost a fortune. I have several turntables, but recently just for a bit of fun and for nostaglia's sake, I picked up a seventies Pioneer PL-12D for forty quid, including a decent Shure M75ED cartridge. You know what? It makes music and sounds really nice, it's certainly Hi-Fi. All I did was give it a clean, drop of oil or two, new belt and a heavier platter mat. And, they're dead reliable!
About 50 CDs
0 records
I've about 3k cds (ripped to flac) and 1k albums, so I need both replay means, however if I were you I'd focus on a good subscription/streaming solution, as you've no current large investment in any physical medium...you could always buy CDs for local ripping/streaming too
Manicatel
03-12-2017, 16:25
Vinyl for tactile, emotive enjoyment.
Streaming for convenience, access to a massive library & discovering music.
CD........no. Unless you already have a cd collection, I wouldn’t bother.
hifinutt
03-12-2017, 16:27
cd for stress free listening and vinyl for lots of aggro and stress and expense :lol:
walpurgis
03-12-2017, 16:27
CD........no. Unless you already have a cd collection, I wouldn’t bother.
Why not?
Manicatel
03-12-2017, 16:44
Because if I was essentially “starting out”now, I would concentrate on streaming as my primary source & vinyl as my luxury/ special occasion source.
Fewer manufacturers are making stand-alone CDP’s now. Even some of the bigger companies don’t hold spares for some of their older players.
Streaming has usurped the convenience/ease of use trump cards that cd used to hold over vinyl.
With the big caveat that you have to have a reasonable, reliable internet. Admittedly without that, streaming is useless.
If you already have a good collection of discs, then continue along that road.
To me, cd’s are stuck between the convenience of streaming & the emotional attachment of vinyl as a physical source.
Only my opinion though!
I have to agree with the ideas Matt has put forward, I was an early giver upper of vinyl, I bought the Philips CD101 and haven't looked back, I have no interest in going back to vinyl, but having just ripped my CD collection to FLAC format, and although I personally intend buying more CD's, I will instantly rip them and put them away. I will then fill in the gaps of albums I can't find with purchased downloads in FLAC format (So not really streaming).
So although I am not off to the shops to buy a record deck and vinyl, in some ways it makes sense to either go streaming (At CD quality) or go vinyl for the tactile experience.
As I said I have no intention of going that way, but I can see the appeal.
I will be on my guard of creeping into the easy trap of skipping tracks or jumping from one artist to another.
I am still an album fan and believe in putting an album on and listening to the whole thing (OK I admit "When I am 64" gets skipped, but I used to do that on vinyl as well).
Some time in the near future I'll be upgrading my source but I don't know what to go for I find the idea of vinyl very appealing even the whole physical side of it leads me to think I would get more enjoyment out of it
Then again CD is what I know and love, the simplicity of it and next to zero maintenance is good if you just wanna listen to music without any fuss and placement in my tiny room might not work for vinyl
My experience with vinyl is very limited or next to none I've heard some cheap crap that hasn't been cleaned or looked after and I wouldn't really count that as an experience
I want to know how do the two different sounds compare and what's your opinion on the matter
If you don't own any records and are going to A) listen to current production new releases B) buy new records from store you have to be aware when making decision to go down this road that with vinyl you are nowadays entering a highly priced "luxury market". In the end it is your own decision whether your are willing to join this boutique price game or not.
Without a shadow of a doubt you should get a DAC or CDP first. Not all digital is flat and hard sounding, just a lot of it. IME multibit DACs sound more natural, providing the circuit around it is good of course, critical in fact.
James the Albarry lover
03-12-2017, 18:36
My favourite music is from the 70s and 80s, to be honest I don't like the idea of streaming but I do see the benefits of it, to me the physical side of music is a fun part that I would miss it's nice having something solid for your money wether it be CDs or LPs, I never knew that some modern re releases on vinyl where so bad which is making me edge more towards CD
Manicatel
03-12-2017, 19:01
Sounds to me like you’ve made your mind up already.
Hey, it’s all music, it can all sound great.
Enjoy, whatever your decision.
paulf-2007
03-12-2017, 19:01
You already have a decent cdp. If you're not keen on streaming then work your up the food chain with vinyl, but buy older vinyl rather than new, but some new vinyl is ok. I have a DVD that plays sacd but I rarely play cd, usually when the internet isn't playing ball. So mostly Spotify and vinyl. I don't understand having thousands of CDs or vinyl lp's as there isn't enough time to listen to them all, hence streaming. The rest of my listening is vinyl, probably about 30 albums in good enough condition to play,the rest from my drunken teenage years are toast. Only buying half speed mastered and 45rpm lp's when I can find them.
paulf-2007
03-12-2017, 19:04
Without a shadow of a doubt you should get a DAC or CDP first. Not all digital is flat and hard sounding, just a lot of it. IME multibit DACs sound more natural, providing the circuit around it is good of course, critical in fact.
Flat and hard sounding....really? Not in my experience
farflungstar
03-12-2017, 19:05
I'm constantly caught in this dilemma. I have vinyl and have invested a lot in the deck, arm, phonostage and cart not to mention SUT. I'm very very happy with it. But there is so much more music available on cd it pisses me off. Getting hold of mint copies costs a lot, and up to press most new music is on cd or streamed. There aren't charity shops in Spain and if there were most vinyl was Spanish pressed and inferior. eBay has proved a minefield. Discogs much better.
I like vinyl, I love my gear..But sometimes I toy with going digital.
walpurgis
03-12-2017, 19:06
Flat and hard sounding....really? Not in my experience
I agree.
Flat and hard sounding....really? Not in my experience
I said “not all digital”...
Pigmy Pony
03-12-2017, 19:56
A relatively low-risk way to go would be to buy a used, decent quality turntable (be guided by the clever folk on here). Avoid those abominations sold by HMV and the like, they are total pants. Buy half a dozen records, favouring ones which have interesting artwork.
If you later decide it isn't for you, then you can sell on the turntable with little or no financial loss, and get some Ikea frames to put the albums up on the wall
jandl100
03-12-2017, 19:58
Forget physical media.
Internet streaming for an unbeatably vast catalogue of music to enjoy and explore in good sound.
Sorted. :)
Forget physical media.
Internet streaming for an unbeatably vast catalogue of music to enjoy and explore in good sound.
Sorted. :)
If you only have 50 CDs and 0 records this is a sensible suggestion. But you are asking an impossible question to answer from a bunch of people who will never agree on anything, so your task is a daunting one if you try and consider all the advice. Do what your heart tells you and don't listen to too much advice, it'll tear you every which way and possibly frustrate you even more ;)
But from me (yup more advice), honestly, if you haven't really experienced records then stick with what you know. Buy CDs if you still want something physical, masses on Amazon for pence if you buy second-hand, rip them and as Jerry says sign up for a good streaming service. That's the solution IMO if you just want to enjoy music. If you really want to try the vinyl experience, Geoff's solution is a solid one and I'm speaking as a past PL12D owner of many years (first TT I ever owned in the 70s). They are cheap to buy, they work and they will let you experience the theatre of vinyl without breaking the bank. If you like it, then explore investing in something more high-end, but you are going to spend a lot of money and time going this route. Nothing wrong with that if it gives you pleasure, but enjoying vinyl isn't a cheap pass-time compared to what else is on offer, especially as you don't have any records!
One drawback with LPs I think - they are a bit susceptible to damage - mistakes, mishandling etc.
I like CDs because you can make your own and they are portable - take em to the car etc. They are ubiquitous, and reasonably-priced and you can download files from vendors and burn them. If you do decide to "go streamer" then just rip em.
Most flexible in my opinion. As for quality, get a good transport and dac and Bob's your uncle, imho. Spend what you'd spend on a turntable/arm/phono stage and you will have a nice set up. If they haven't got rid of vinyl yet then I think it'll be a while before they get rid of the CD. They are still making the players, so they don't see it dying too shortly.
Audio Al
03-12-2017, 20:50
You are in for a real treat when you dive into vinyl , you will be shocked at the quality of a well sorted TT setup :)
speedracer
03-12-2017, 21:02
I honestly don't know what I would do if I were starting out with putting a system together now. I have always loved having records & remember where & when I bought many of my LP's & singles, the excitement of new releases, reading the "secret " codes etched into the runout grooves, devouring all the information on the album sleeves. When cd's came along they did nothing for me sound wise & thought the little brittle plastic things they came in were pathetic, I wanted nothing to do with the usurper!
I have owned a CDP now & then, but I only ever bought cd's for the car, genuinely, I just cannot sit down & listen to one in the same way I can the magic vinyl discs. Saying that, buying into vinyl takes a big investment, not only in the cost of the equipment & the records themselves, but in time, & emotion. I wouldn't like to calculate how much this hobby has cost me in the 50 years I have been buying records, let alone the effort put into keeping them safe, just in the last 10 years I have moved house 11 times, & the first thing I do is sort out the safety of transporting my records & kit. But I wouldn't have it any other way of course.
James the Albarry lover
04-12-2017, 00:03
I love idea of vinyl and had previously considered getting the Rega planar 3 with phono stage, I'm just concerned about availability of music and how the sound differs
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 02:13
Forget physical media.
Internet streaming for an unbeatably vast catalogue of music to enjoy and explore in good sound.
Sorted. :)
I thought the OP had already said that he prefers 'tangible' media. With that in mind and the ownership of big pieces of artwork it really has to be vinyl. A lot of folk out there simply cannot get their head around paying out money for something that is virtual and not real.
James the Albarry lover
04-12-2017, 03:03
I thought the OP had already said that he prefers 'tangible' media. With that in mind and the ownership of big pieces of artwork it really has to be vinyl. A lot of folk out there simply cannot get their head around paying out money for something that is virtual and not real.
Exactly to me I look at vinyl as a ritual and the whole idea that music is analog by nature, I've also noticed that a large amount of people on here have a record player I'm not one to follow the crowd but I feel as though I'm missing out on something
Audio Al
04-12-2017, 03:27
Exactly to me I look at vinyl as a ritual and the whole idea that music is analog by nature, I've also noticed that a large amount of people on here have a record player I'm not one to follow the crowd but I feel as though I'm missing out on something
Yes you are
Nearly all my vinyl comes from car boot sales at £1 per LP , some people buy from charity shops but no charity shops sell records where I live , Ebay , Discogs , Preloved , Gumtree etc
Might be worth noting that none of the streaming services have ever made a profit. That makes me wonder if they will be around long-term. Might not be wise to put all the eggs in one basket.
jandl100
04-12-2017, 10:18
Might be worth noting that none of the streaming services have ever made a profit. That makes me wonder if they will be around long-term. Might not be wise to put all the eggs in one basket.
Sure.
If they collapse then start a CD collection. I've kept mine, but almost never use it.
The internet streamers are far more fun to just explore a whole world of new music at the click of an icon.
Vinyl just doesn't work for me with my classical preferences, but other musical genres do fare much better.
its a good point but i am keeping my cds too and still use them and their flac copies on hdd. world is a big place and there are not that many so would expect most to survive long term.
...some people buy from charity shops but no charity shops sell records where I live...
That's what you get then for living in the 'softy south', where folk are obsessed with following trends, all too quickly embracing the latest fads, and abandoning the use of anything that is no longer deemed as 'fashionable'!
Up north, we're not so fickle, lol, so there are plenty of charity shops where I am selling vinyl records, and even a couple of old-fashioned record shops [remember those?], selling both new and used vinyl! :ner:;)
Marco.
To me, cd’s are stuck between the convenience of streaming & the emotional attachment of vinyl as a physical source.
Only my opinion though!
I completely agree. Furthermore, they're almost certainly destined to be obsolete long before vinyl records.... Oh, the irony! ;)
Marco.
James the Albarry lover
04-12-2017, 12:02
I find this article interesting if not abit one sided http://now.tufts.edu/articles/does-music-sound-better-vinyl-records-cds
Forget physical media.
Internet streaming for an unbeatably vast catalogue of music to enjoy and explore in good sound.
Sorted. :)
...and/or streaming from your own network of music, stored on various hard-drives, which ultimately sounds better. This is something you should eventually get into, Jerry, and joining a good music (FLAC quality) download site, and paying them a monthly subscription fee for the privilege, along with Spotify.
The music you download (and the variety of classical music contributed and shared by members is near-infinitesimal), can then be stored on NAS drives and accessed via your devices, as conveniently as you can with Spotify.
The difference too, is that YOU then have control of the music, and the ability to retain it and use it as you wish, rather than in that respect being at the mercy of Spotify or Deezer, who can simply add or remove what they want from their catalogues at any time.
Trust me, it makes sense! ;)
Marco.
James the Albarry lover
04-12-2017, 12:08
The things I love in music or hifi is those big dynamic changes in the music the type that gives a shiver down your spine and hearing that sweet stereo separation but I also love warm sounding hifi it makes it seem alot more realistic and smooth, can vinyl deliver that same kind of punch you get with CDs or is it more flat and lifeless?
Audio Al
04-12-2017, 12:09
CDs reflect exactly what the artists recorded in the studio. Vinyl distorts it
Is he for real with this statement , He MUST have that round the wrong way :scratch:
CD ( Compromised Disc ) shave off the high frequency and the low frequency then compress the life out of it and squeeze in on a shiny disc :eek:
I find this article interesting if not abit one sided http://now.tufts.edu/articles/does-music-sound-better-vinyl-records-cds
it is pretty much spot on apart from where he mentions wear on vinyl from playing it. IIRC someone somewhere did some tests and it was something like 1000 plays before there was any audible degradation - using a properly set up and unworn cartridge of course. So I don't really think that is a factor.
The other thing missing is overuse of compression on CD versions to make it sound 'louder'. The vinyl version will be compromised in different ways, but a CD with massive amounts of compression is unlistenable on good equipment.
James the Albarry lover
04-12-2017, 12:11
CDs reflect exactly what the artists recorded in the studio. Vinyl distorts it
Is he for real with this statement , He MUST have that round the wrong way :scratch:
CD ( Compromised Disc ) shave off the high frequency and the low frequency then compress the life out of it and squeeze in on a shiny disc :eek:
Yes I agree with you there he's very one sided wasted my time reading but was a laugh non the less
CDs reflect exactly what the artists recorded in the studio. Vinyl distorts it
Is he for real with this statement , He MUST have that round the wrong way :scratch:
CD ( Compromised Disc ) shave off the high frequency and the low frequency then compress the life out of it and squeeze in on a shiny disc :eek:
No he's correct, if you leave the compression aside, and very few cds are compressed to death anyway. No frequencies are removed on a CD.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 12:13
A few friends of mine are heavily into hi-fi and vinyl replay and they all agree, as do I, vinyl is indeed a ritual and almost a lifestyle choice when it comes to music. It is not a throw away fad and I doubt ever has been so. However,
with most things like classic cars and classic motorcycles, do not ever think it is an easy ride and therefore an easy journey. If that is what you are expecting, by all means get involved but be prepared to be highly disappointed. This media requires a certain dedication and commitment both in terms of extreme patience and cash as I doubt you will ever be satisfied with your phono stage and may never even be satisfied with your turntable. You will though be part of a group of people who do not do things because they are easy or convenient.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 12:19
OK, regarding CD sound versus vinyl sound I can only draw attention to 'Amused to Death' by Roger Waters. Yeah, yeah, CD a tenner vinyl thirty six quid...! On this album there is an explosion in some supposed North African market.
On CD that explosion is highly compressed and rather like a vegan's fart. On vinyl you really do need to watch your drive units. The vinyl is highly risky compared to the CD. I have both versions of this album and also the orginal 1984 version.
The vinyl is bloody stunning.
A few friends of mine are heavily into hi-fi and vinyl replay and they all agree, as do I, vinyl is indeed a ritual and almost a lifestyle choice when it comes to music. It is not a throw away fad and I doubt ever has been so. However,
with most things like classic cars and classic motorcycles, do not ever think it is an easy ride and therefore an easy journey. If that is what you are expecting, by all means get involved but be prepared to be highly disappointed. This media requires a certain dedication and commitment both in terms of extreme patience and cash as I doubt you will ever be satisfied with your phono stage and may never even be satisfied with your turntable. You will though be part of a group of people who do not do things because they are easy or convenient.
Nicely put Shaun. You are also spot on regarding Amused to death!:lol:
James the Albarry lover
04-12-2017, 12:30
OK, regarding CD sound versus vinyl sound I can only draw attention to 'Amused to Death' by Roger Waters. Yeah, yeah, CD a tenner vinyl thirty six quid...! On this album there is an explosion in some supposed North African market.
On CD that explosion is highly compressed and rather like a vegan's fart. On vinyl you really do need to watch your drive units. The vinyl is highly risky compared to the CD. I have both versions of this album and also the orginal 1984 version.
The vinyl is bloody stunning.
I always love comparisons between hifi and farts alot of magazines should go about reviewing hifi in this fashion I think :lol:
On CD that explosion is highly compressed and rather like a vegan's fart. On vinyl you really do need to watch your drive units. The vinyl is highly risky compared to the CD. I have both versions of this album and also the orginal 1984 version.
The vinyl is bloody stunning.
Interesting... So could the digital fanboys amongst us proffer a credible hypothesis as to what may be occurring there?
Marco.
'Amused to Death' has quite a high dynamic range on CD and SACD http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=roger+waters&album=amused+to+death
You just need to turn the volume up a bit with the CD. :)
Ironically the 'explosion' is probably subjectively louder on vinyl due to summing of the bass to mono and the compression applied to the bass in the mastering for vinyl.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 12:42
Yes of course the very low frequencies have to be mono'd on vinyl but why should that increase the loudness..? Unless the actual level has been increased I cannot understand why it should be louder. Also, if the level were indeed increased then it would have to be compressed to keep it below the threshold surely...? This would also be true of CD.
Yes of course the very low frequencies have to be mono'd on vinyl but why should that increase the loudness..? Unless the actual level has been increased I cannot understand why it should be louder. Also, if the level were indeed increased then it would have to be compressed to keep it below the threshold surely...? This would also be true of CD.
If the bass is in stereo all the way down, and the bass note in question is mixed to be louder on one channel than the other, or only occurs on one channel, it will be louder in mono because both speakers are reproducing it equally. Since Roger likes his stereophonic effects I'm guessing the explosion is panned across the speakers. I've not listened to that album since it came out, which is quite a while ago now (30 years?)
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 12:53
(30 years?)
Cheers for reminding me ;)
Surely if a decent job is being done 'they' would have taken such things into account otherwise such fearsome bass would go well above the acceptable threshold for recording and mastering...? They could not possibly make such changes without watching the levels otherwise you have to resort to heavy compression like on Dark Side Of The Moon and most of Gilmour's guitar solos.
Martin makes a good point, Shaun. Did you ensure that when you conducted the comparison that your CD and vinyl sources were level-matched?
If not, try the comparison again, level-matched, and see whether or not you observe the same about the explosion in question. I would also add that there's more to something sounding more impressive and believable than simply the loudness of the recording.
When the musical information contained in any recording (available on digital and vinyl) is more faithfully resolved, via one method than the other, that also has the knock-on effect of making certain aspects of it sound more impressive or believable.
Marco.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 13:11
Yes the two sources were at roughly the same volume as heard by myself and Sue. The sheer expression of this particular explosion is worrying on vinyl but certainly not on CD. Another thing I do not understand about the reissue of this album is that at least one track has been completely re-recorded and is not the original track. Cannot understand why Waters would do that. The track in question is 'The Bravery of Being Our of Range'.
Cheers for reminding me ;)
Surely if a decent job is being done 'they' would have taken such things into account otherwise such fearsome bass would go well above the acceptable threshold for recording and mastering...? They could not possibly make such changes without watching the levels otherwise you have to resort to heavy compression like on Dark Side Of The Moon and most of Gilmour's guitar solos.
Sorry, I don't understand what you are getting at? You have to limit bass dynamics and bass stereo effects when mastering for vinyl unless the recording itself has very little bass on it to begin with. The deeper the bass and the more the bass has been mixed for stereo effect, the more you will have to curtail this in the vinyl mastering if you don't want the needle jumping out of the groove.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 13:14
I would also add that there's more to something sounding more impressive and believable than simply the loudness of the recording.
Marco.
Oh yeah of course Marco, loudness is almost irrelevant when compared to the dynamic range.
Yes the two sources were at roughly the same volume as heard by myself and Sue.
Unfortunately, roughly the same isn't good enough. It needs to be level-matched (and that's where measuring comes into the equation, using a meter), because if one recording is being played even just slightly louder than the other, then it will automatically be perceived as sounding more "impressive".
That's just how our ears work :)
Marco.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 13:19
Sorry, I don't understand what you are getting at? You have to limit bass dynamics and bass stereo effects when mastering for vinyl unless the recording itself has very little bass on it to begin with. The deeper the bass and the more the bass has been mixed for stereo effect, the more you will have to curtail this in the vinyl mastering if you don't want the needle jumping out of the groove.
Oh yes of course but then you have to limit for all replay devices even digital ones and of course as you have already said you cannot have stereo bass on vinyl. I totally agree with your above comment. However, there is a threshold for all replay devices whether that be CD or vinyl and the engineer cannot exceed that threshold. I was always made to believe that CD was way more dynamic than vinyl but I have found that not to be true. The Waters album is an example of that as is Moroccan Roll by Brand X.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 13:22
Unfortunately, roughly the same isn't good enough. It needs to be level-matched (and that's where measuring comes into the equation, using a meter), because if one recording is being played even just slightly louder than the other, then it will automatically be perceived as sounding more "impressive".
That's just how our ears work :)
Marco.
Ah but our ears work on the inverse square law which means that small changes are not noticeable only large changes are.
You have to limit bass dynamics and bass stereo effects when mastering for vinyl unless the recording itself has very little bass on it to begin with. The deeper the bass and the more the bass has been mixed for stereo effect, the more you will have to curtail this in the vinyl mastering if you don't want the needle jumping out of the groove.
That fact always intrigues me...
Whilst what you're saying is technically correct, I can't think off-hand of any identical recordings of music I own both on vinyl and CD, where the bass on the CD version is audibly superior to that on the vinyl version - in fact, it's often the other way round!
For example, the bass on some of my 12" dance music singles is positively seismic, and in a way that I've never heard from any CD... Therefore, I can only assume it's one of these strange phenomena that, whilst true, don't translate into real-world listening :)
Marco.
Ah but our ears work on the inverse square law which means that small changes are not noticeable only large changes are.
So how do you explain the noticeable sonic effect of small changes caused by things such as reducing the tracking force of a cartridge by 0.01g, or similar? ;)
Marco.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 13:28
Yep so when mixing these fab dance tracks you reduce the level of all the other sounds so that you can keep the bass right up there. Or you use a compressor.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 13:31
So how do you determine the noticeable sonic effect of small changes effected by things such as reducing the tracking force of a cartridge by 0.01g, or similar? ;)
Marco.
Because such things are not related to sheer volume. Our ears are not at all sensitive to tiny changes in volume. Well according to physics ;)
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 13:32
So how do you explain the noticeable sonic effect of small changes caused by things such as reducing the tracking force of a cartridge by 0.01g, or similar? ;)
Marco.
I would suggest this has way more to do with the mechanics of tracing a groove with a lump of rock.
Because such things are not related to sheer volume. Our ears are not at all sensitive to tiny changes in volume. Well according to physics ;)
So why do all the diehard objectivists always bleat on about level-matching (along with blind-testing), when assessing for audible effects in hi-fi?
Marco.
. I was always made to believe that CD was way more dynamic than vinyl but I have found that not to be true. The Waters album is an example of that as is Moroccan Roll by Brand X.
Well put it this way, if you took a recording and mastered it for CD with the maximum dynamic range possible, then did the same for vinyl, the cd would have a much higher dynamic range. But there are two factors here:
1) very few masterings fully exploit the potential dynamic range of CD
2) What you subjectively perceive as 'dynamics' when listening is not actually dynamic range or dynamic swing. The problem here is one of language, what we mean in casual conversation when using the word 'dynamic' is not the same as the actual meaning of the word when applied to a recording. Heavily compressed recordings can sound subjectively 'dynamic' and recordings that do have a good dynamic range can sound 'undynamic' as with the Roger water's album discussed above.
With the Brand X album my guess is that it has a far wider dynamic range on CD than vinyl, but this will actually lead to you listening to it at a lower volume since the peaks will go very loud compared to the quiet bits.
Trouble is we tend to use the word 'dynamic' to describe recordings that are 'punchy' and give an impression of weight and power to the sound. But these things have nothing to do with the dynamic range, in fact applying compression will actually exaggerate these effects, one of the reasons many masterings are heavily compresed.
Looking it up on the DRDB it is indeed a relatively uncompressed master on CD http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=brand+x&album=
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 13:39
The Brand X album I am referring to is perhaps not really a suitable argument as my vinyl copy is a 1978 original pressing whereas the CD is a few decades later. The CD is flat and lifeless with less resolution of detail whereas the vinyl has the most gorgeous quite drum passages set against some raucously loud sections. Bloody stunning album.
Yep so when mixing these fab dance tracks you reduce the level of all the other sounds so that you can keep the bass right up there. Or you use a compressor.
But, as Martin says, bass dynamics are automatically limited *at source* on all vinyl recordings, so how can any method or device, employed later in the chain, retrieve that missing bass?
Bass however, which I've already said, to my ears, isn't audibly missing...
Marco.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 13:43
The track titles on this album are a nonsense so I wont mention them but there are sections where it is possible to hear the most delicate whisper on the drum skin and then a second or so later Phil Collins is bashing ten bells out it.
The most dramatic track is I think Hate Zone. Bloody stunning.
With the Brand X album my guess is that it has a far wider dynamic range on CD than vinyl, but this will actually lead to you listening to it at a lower volume since the peaks will go very loud compared to the quiet bits.
...which is why level-matching is crucial, in order to arrive at any meaningful conclusions in this matter.
Marco.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 13:44
But, as Martin says, bass dynamics are automatically limited *at source* on all vinyl recordings, so how can any method or device, employed later in the chain, retrieve that missing bass?
Bass however, which I've already said, to my ears, isn't audibly missing...
Marco.
LOL, it sounds like those 70's Linn ads all over again.
Manicatel
04-12-2017, 13:45
Might be worth noting that none of the streaming services have ever made a profit. That makes me wonder if they will be around long-term. Might not be wise to put all the eggs in one basket.
Music streaming revenue increased by 60% last year. Thats pretty massive. Even if Spotify or Tidal folded, there would be others to fill the void. I really can't see streaming being anything other than the main source of music for years to come. It suits the younger generation who expect instant on-demand access to music & video, on multiple devices. Really can't see that changing.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 13:46
But, as Martin says, bass dynamics are automatically limited *at source* on all vinyl recordings, so how can any method or device, employed later in the chain, retrieve that missing bass?
Bass however, which I've already said, to my ears, isn't audibly missing...
Marco.
I think bass dynamics are limited on all media formats but on vinyl they cannot be in stereo as the old rock could not track it.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 13:48
...which is why level-matching is crucial, in order to arrive at any meaningful conclusion in this matter.
Marco.
Yes Marco but turning up the volume will not put back dynamics that are just not there it will only make it louder.
Music streaming revenue increased by 60% last year. Thats pretty massive. Even if Spotify or Tidal folded, there would be others to fill the void. I really can't see streaming being anything other than the main source of music for years to come. It suits the younger generation who expect instant on-demand access to music & video, on multiple devices. Really can't see that changing.
I agree, the problem is they don't want to pay for it. And those that will pay for it don't want to pay as much as is required for a profit to be made. if your streaming service cost £50/month, which is probably about where it would need to be for them to start showing a profit, how many people would still be keen to pay it? Revenue increases mean nothing on their own. Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity.
That fact always intrigues me...
Whilst what you're saying is technically correct, I can't think off-hand of any identical recordings of music I own both on vinyl and CD, where the bass on the CD version is audibly superior to that on the vinyl version - in fact, it's often the other way round!
For example, the bass on some of my 12" dance music singles is positively seismic, and in a way that I've never heard from any CD... Therefore, I can only assume it's one of these strange phenomena that, whilst true, don't translate into real-world listening :)
Marco.
Bass is compressed so sounds 'louder', low bass is in mono so sounds more solid. Vinyl's weaknesses on paper are, ironically, its strengths when actually listening.
Of course you could do this with digital too. If you copy your 12 inch vinyl single to digital and level match it should sound pretty much identical to the vinyl.
I think bass dynamics are limited on all media formats but on vinyl they cannot be in stereo as the old rock could not track it.
Sure, but the point is, when it's gone (in that way), it's GONE for GOOD, and so can't be 'magically retrieved' later ;)
However, whilst it cannot be disputed that bass dynamics are limited on vinyl recordings, in the way Martin has described, I can't say that I've ever felt that any well-recorded, high-resolution recordings I own on vinyl sound bass-light compared with their CD counterparts.
Marco.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 14:01
Sure, but the point is, when it's gone (in that way), it's GONE for GOOD, and so can't be 'magically retrieved' later ;)
However, whilst it cannot be disputed that bass dynamics are limited on vinyl recordings, in the way Martin has described, I can't say that I've ever felt that any well-recorded, high-resolution recordings I own on vinyl sound bass-light compared with their CD counterparts.
Marco.
Of course, once a sound is engineered out it is no longer retrievable. I also agree because none of my vinyl sounds bass light when compared to the CD however some vinyl is a lot more dynamic.
Bass is compressed so sounds 'louder', low bass is in mono so sounds more solid. Vinyl's weaknesses on paper are, ironically, its strengths when actually listening.
Ok, but I'm not talking about louder, I'm talking about bass on vinyl 12" singles sounding deeper and having more impact/authority than anything I've heard from CD, played at the same level. Well-recorded 12" singles really are special beasts, because you've got the 45rpm factor, plus all that groove surface to devote to often only one song, and so the dynamics can be incredible!
Now that may not measurably be the case, which I accept, but what does it matter if that's what you *actually* hear? Like you say, vinyl's weaknesses on paper are, ironically, its strengths when actually listening, so who cares about the measurements? Just sit back and enjoy the bass you can FEEL!! :D
Of course you could do this with digital too. If you copy your 12 inch vinyl single to digital and level match it should sound pretty much identical to the vinyl.
Perhaps, but that could be due to the limitations of the digitization process (sound card), mangling the natural bass characteristics of the vinyl. Every process used imparts its own 'signature'.
Having 'ripped' vinyl to CD many times, using said digitization process, I can say with some certainty that there is no 'free lunch', and thus a sonic penalty is always paid in the results obtained.
Marco.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 14:04
Sure, but the point is, when it's gone (in that way), it's GONE for GOOD, and so can't be 'magically retrieved' later ;)
However, whilst it cannot be disputed that bass dynamics are limited on vinyl recordings, in the way Martin has described, I can't say that I've ever felt that any well-recorded, high-resolution recordings I own on vinyl sound bass-light compared with their CD counterparts.
Marco.
However, I was referring to the stereo effect.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 14:07
Ok, but I'm not talking about louder, I'm talking about bass on vinyl 12" singles sounding deeper and having more impact/authority than anything I've heard from CD, played at the same level.
Marco.
Ah yes but there are aural enhancers in studios that will do exactly that when mixing down.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 14:11
Check out a Behringer SX3040 as just one example.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 14:12
Ok, but I'm not talking about louder, I'm talking about bass on vinyl 12" singles sounding deeper and having more impact/authority than anything I've heard from CD, played at the same level.
Marco.
And of course these gadgets are all digital ;)
Ok, but I'm not talking about louder, I'm talking about bass on vinyl 12" singles sounding deeper and having more impact/authority than anything I've heard from CD, played at the same level. Well-recorded 12" singles really are special beasts, because you've got the 45rpm factor, plus all that groove width to devote to often only one song, and so the dynamics can be incredible!
Now that may not measurably be the case, which I accept, but what does it matter if that's what you *actually* hear? Like you say, vinyl's weaknesses on paper are, ironically, its strengths when actually listening, so who cares about the measurements? Just sit back and enjoy the bass you can FEEL!! :D
Perhaps, but that could be due to the limitations of the digitization process (sound card), mangling the natural bass characteristics of the vinyl. Every process used imparts its own 'signature'.
Having 'ripped' vinyl to CD many times, using said digitization process, I can say with some certainty that there is no 'free lunch', and thus a sonic penalty is always paid in the results obtained.
Marco.
I agree that what it sounds like is what it sounds like regardless of what might technically be going on. What sounds like deeper bass may not actually be deeper bass, if you measured it, however I agree that is irrelevant to our perceptions.
If your vinyl rip sounds different to actually playing the 12 inch single the likelihood is that you are missing the acoustic feedback, something else about vinyl that is technically undesirable but in reality improves the listening experience. You won't be able to hear the effects of the ADC/DAC in your soundcard unless you loop the signal through it at least half a dozen times.
I agree that what it sounds like is what it sounds like regardless of what might technically be going on. What sounds like deeper bass may not actually be deeper bass, if you measured it, however I agree that is irrelevant to our perceptions.
Excellent, now we're getting somewhere, lol! And at the end of the day, when listening to music, it's ultimately only our perceptions that count. Incidentally, the same principles also apply to other aspects of audio, where what's heard doesn't correlate with what's measured ;)
If your vinyl rip sounds different to actually playing the 12 inch single the likelihood is that you are missing the acoustic feedback, something else about vinyl that is technically undesirable but in reality improves the listening experience. You won't be able to hear the effects of the ADC/DAC in your soundcard unless you loop the signal through it at least half a dozen times.
Perhaps, but that's not how I'd interpret the results. To my ears, there's an undesirable falseness and 'glare' (in effect an irritating and tiring-sounding coloration) superimposed onto the music, with the digital rip, that is completely absent on the vinyl itself - and it's happened with every rip I've ever done.
Marco.
A couple of months ago I moved from cd to vinyl myself James.
I shan't be going back anytime soon.
All that time and money wasted trying to get digital audio to sound analogue.
If you're serious about the change spend a couple of hundred quid on a deck and a couple of vinyls.
If you hate it then you haven't lost owt but if you love it you are on the ground floor and running.
Quote Originally Posted by James the Albarry lover View Post
"About 50 CDs
0 records"
I had around 250 CD and no vinyl. A CD or vinyl is just an item.
"My favourite music is from the 70s and 80s, to be honest I don't like the idea of streaming but I do see the benefits of it, to me the physical side of music is a fun part that I would miss it's nice having something solid for your money wether it be CDs or LPs, I never knew that some modern re releases on vinyl where so bad which is making me edge more towards CD"
Just because it's on a CD doesn't guarantee good audio.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 15:05
A couple of months ago I moved from cd to vinyl myself James.
I shan't be going back anytime soon.
All that time and money wasted trying to get digital audio to sound analogue.
If you're serious about the change spend a couple of hundred quid on a deck and a couple of vinyls.
If you hate it then you haven't lost owt but if you love it you are on the ground floor and running.
:thumbsup:
James the Albarry lover
04-12-2017, 15:12
I had around 250 CD and no vinyl. A CD or vinyl is just an item.
Just because it's on a CD doesn't guarantee good audio.[/QUOTE]
I'd be keeping my CDs if I got into vinyl and definitely I've came across alot of CDs that sounded awful but it was more down to the quality of the recordings
James the Albarry lover
04-12-2017, 15:15
A couple of months ago I moved from cd to vinyl myself James.
I shan't be going back anytime soon.
All that time and money wasted trying to get digital audio to sound analogue.
If you're serious about the change spend a couple of hundred quid on a deck and a couple of vinyls.
If you hate it then you haven't lost owt but if you love it you are on the ground floor and running.
My dad has an old Rega planner 2 somewhere I might steal that off him to give it a go
That's the way. You'll either be seduced or just plain hate it but you'll know.
But please do get it set up right before making a decision. Once everything is in order it's bliss bit if it ain't right it's shite.
Stratmangler
04-12-2017, 15:34
if it ain't right it's shite.
:thumbsup:
Some time in the near future I'll be upgrading my source but I don't know what to go for I find the idea of vinyl very appealing even the whole physical side of it leads me to think I would get more enjoyment out of it
Then again CD is what I know and love, the simplicity of it and next to zero maintenance is good if you just wanna listen to music without any fuss and placement in my tiny room might not work for vinyl
My experience with vinyl is very limited or next to none I've heard some cheap crap that hasn't been cleaned or looked after and I wouldn't really count that as an experience
I want to know how do the two different sounds compare and what's your opinion on the matter
Good vinyl played on a reasonably well set up deck will sound millions times better than poorly mastered digital played via mediocre equipment (eg a CDP or mass market dac chip). The opposites are also, of course, true.
I have two vinyl decks and two CD players with several hundred each of LPs and CDs. I have not played either for years. I only, now, play music via a dedicated server and/or internet streaming.
If I were to start over, had lots of funds and more space I would get a high end TT and play excellent selected vinyl just for the nostalgia of handling the black stuff, artwork and the rest. But mostly I would stick with pure digital as well mastered music played though well thought out equipment (= does not have to be expensive) can and will sound just as good or even better than most vinyl setups (IMO of course).
But given that you seem to have access to a good TT (the Rega you mentioned) I would definitely recommend you try vinyl for now and also, if you can, find the same albums on CD (that has not been remastered to death). This ought to give you a good base to continue your hifi journey. HiFi is, after all, a journey not a destination. :cool:
My dad has an old Rega planner 2 somewhere I might steal that off him to give it a go
Best idea yet, just get spinning with the lowest outlay possible.
Idlewithnodrive
04-12-2017, 18:02
I just LOVE music, there, I've said it.
For me, vinyl delivers that emotional, natural, almost reverential experience (and that's THE word) that CD or streaming just can't match. If i want to do full justice to the music, pay it it's due respect, it has to be vinyl, despite it's myriad foibles / imperfections.
So, for me, it's vinyl for serious listening / the experience / the time and effort that great music deserves, CD for convenience and streaming for discovery of new music.
paulf-2007
04-12-2017, 19:36
Using a mediocre vinyl set up won't produce quality equal to cd. It's been said so often, vinyl replay equal to cd costs much more, at some point beyond that level it's better than cd, the reason I don't bother with cd even though I have many cd's. Digital for me is Spotify, vinyl for those special sessions with my best recordings.
Using a mediocre vinyl set up won't produce quality equal to cd. It's been said so often, vinyl replay equal to cd costs much more, at some point beyond that level it's better than cd...
Yup, themz da facts! :)
Marco.
Haselsh1
04-12-2017, 20:01
My partner Sue and I agree that in our sound system when playing electronica CD is the master (geddit) :doh:
It's been said so often, vinyl replay equal to cd costs much more
Genuinely laughing out loud. Sorry man but you're the first person I've found who thinks that.
Not at all, Andrew. I think the same, and experience proves it! ;)
Before you disagree so vehemently, I think you should make sure you know *exactly* what Paul means by that statement, as I suspect you're not on the same page.
Marco.
Genuinely the first time I've read that Marco. The usual line goes something like you'd need to spend a small fortune on a cdp to beat a well setup vinyl front end.
I find no ambiguity in Paul's statement.
I know where you're coming from but you need to understand what he meant by the statement he made. Unfortunately I don't have time right now to explain in detail why I hold the same opinion, so maybe Paul will explain himself when he returns? :)
Essentially though, it's about getting a turntable to perform with similar stability/accuracy, and as close as possible to the lack of distortion and quietness on playback, produced by digital sources, whilst at the same time delivering all the musicality of vinyl at its best - and *that* is what costs money! ;)
Marco.
Genuinely laughing out loud. Sorry man but you're the first person I've found who thinks that.
Well I just flat out 100% disagree with that, so there's two people for you who thinks (knows) that.
I don't really understand the comparison. Digital and vinyl are so different I don't see the point in comparisons. I think a majority of enthusiasts would prefer a properly sorted vinyl system to the same album played from a digital source, all else being equal. I'd probably include myself in that.
As to how good the vinyl playing system needs to be to reach that standard, opinions are going to vary with experience, I feel. For me, a Rega 3 with a budget cart and phono stage falls well short of the mark, but I know others who would still prefer that to £20K of state of the art DCS equipment and some who will go on to claim that the humble Rega set up will 'outperform' the digital at any price.
Personally, I like to hear into the recording and you can't do that on a budget vinyl system, you really do need to spend some money on it, and not on useless bling either.
I gave up on vinyl at the point where I realised I was trying to get the vinyl system to do the same as the CD and how much that was going to cost me to get there. Cheaper just to buy the CD.
If people like how vinyl sounds, and I mean the format, not the music, then they will champion vinyl over digital full stop.
If people like how vinyl sounds, and I mean the format, not the music, then they will champion vinyl over digital full stop.
And vice versa.
I gave up on vinyl at the point where I realised I was trying to get the vinyl system to do the same as the CD and how much that was going to cost me to get there.
Exactly opposite to me Martin. Much like beer I guess, in kit, ears and music we are all different and have different tastes too.
Another of those endless topics that can just go on and on ad nauseum.
Although we do agree thats a kick arse cdp youve got there Martin.
Although we do agree thats a kick arse cdp youve got there Martin.
No, it can't be, because digital has come on leaps and bounds in the past 20 years... ah, how I laughed.
Yeah those 1's and 0's have never sounded better. Except maybe on a Philips cd100?
Yeah those 1's and 0's have never sounded better. Except maybe on a Philips cd100?
Now that (along with the CD101) was an awful player.
My remark was tongue in cheek but yes they have their weaknesses. A charm too.
My remark was tongue in cheek but yes they have their weaknesses. A charm too.
No charm as far as I remember: flat, two dimensional players that would pop in and out of an equally flat, depthless, 'soundstage'.
The two dimensional thing is certainly a trait of some cd players.
paulf-2007
05-12-2017, 18:20
Genuinely laughing out loud. Sorry man but you're the first person I've found who thinks that.
I didn't say I think that, I said it's often been said, stop laughing and get your facts right first.
paulf-2007
05-12-2017, 18:23
Genuinely the first time I've read that Marco. The usual line goes something like you'd need to spend a small fortune on a cdp to beat a well setup vinyl front end.
I find no ambiguity in Paul's statement.how much does a well set up vinyl front end cost?
paulf-2007
05-12-2017, 18:25
Although we do agree thats a kick arse cdp youve got there Martin.all cdp's sound the same don't they?
all cdp's sound the same don't they?
No - you're thinking of amplifiers. ;)
walpurgis
05-12-2017, 18:46
No - you're thinking of amplifiers. ;)
Or cables.
I didn't say I think that, I said it's often been said, stop laughing and get your facts right first.
Ooh get you!
A well setup vinyl source price? How long is a piece of string?
CD players all sound the same? Nooooooooo.
walpurgis
05-12-2017, 18:55
Yes. It's curious how £100 worth of Cambridge CD player sounds exactly like £10,000 worth of Mark Levinson.
Careful now, Barry's an ML fanboy! :D;)
Marco.
walpurgis
05-12-2017, 18:59
Careful now, Barry's an ML fanboy! :D;)
Marco.
Don't blame him. CD replay doesn't come much better.
how much does a well set up vinyl front end cost?
How much is a slap on the foreskin with a red-hot teabag?
Marco.
Yes. It's curious how £100 worth of Cambridge CD player sounds exactly like £10,000 worth of Mark Levinson.
That's only if you get a working Cambridge Audio cdp!
How much is a slap on the foreskin with a red-hot teabag?
Marco.
Is that a belt driven teabag or direct drive?
paulf-2007
05-12-2017, 19:20
How much is a slap on the foreskin with a red-hot teabag?
Marco.means what? :)
Just a wee random ditty :eyebrows:
Marco.
paulf-2007
05-12-2017, 21:15
Just a wee random ditty :eyebrows:
Marco.
:lol:
CD for me (without reading any of the thread sorry , because as soon as the wise words of everyone else hits my brain , I lose the will to construct a proper reply!!!!)
Because - I can slip the cd in that slot and sit in my old reclining chair (which was my mother in laws -very comfy too ) and caress the remote whilst moving the volume up and down at will .
Otherwise its -I dont want that track because I dont like it ,and the crackles etc etc whereas the convinience of cd is so so lazy - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
walpurgis
05-12-2017, 23:16
:lolsign:
Pete The Cat
06-12-2017, 07:04
It's a score draw IMHO. The fact that there's such a variation in sound quality of both records and CDs, before we consider the merits of the equipment, throws it right up in the air. If equipment was the sole consideration then I'd say that on a budget CD would triumph pound-for-pound (mainly due to detail retrieval) but with more funds record comes into its own. I keep both and they each hit the spot in their own way. If I only have an hour and need a "hit" from a mix of tracks then I'll opt for CD, whereas if I have the time then letting a record run from end-to-end is one of life's great pleasures.
Pete
Covenant
06-12-2017, 07:40
Radio Paradise Flac is a bit of a game changer. Unlimited free lossless music. Sure, not everyone's taste but a great way to get into streaming.
Because - I can slip the cd in that slot and sit in my old reclining chair...
Yesh, we know how you like shlipping one in, dahling :eyebrows::eyebrows:
Marco.
wee tee cee
06-12-2017, 13:59
Vinyl does ma nut in.....Lenco bastard machine!!!
File based audio....buy the CD after hearing it on Spotify or the likes and rip it lossless.
But.....when you spin that black bit of plastic and it comes together-it just does something intangible sonically that is beguiling.
Fuck,Fuck,Fuck its shite having to admit the best sound ive heard hi fi wise came from a record player...its 2017 ffs.
It can get to you Tony... trouble is its damn costly
Primalsea
06-12-2017, 14:25
For me there will always be that ahh moment when the needle drops onto a good record. I don’t get that with digital. Thing is its not cheap to get a good vinyl setup that gives you that.
wee tee cee
06-12-2017, 14:34
TT Paramedic en route-Gary is coming over with a vinyl defib and other medical equipment.
I just played John Martyn solid air on the new half speed recording......it just does something that even great digital cant.
Firebottle phono pre amp still warming up!!!
Im cursing myself for climbing into this rabbit hole....its like main lining smack=once youve tried it yer fucked!
wee tee cee
06-12-2017, 14:35
I blame Marco and Snapper they filled my head full of pish!!
Vinyl does ma nut in.....Lenco bastard machine!!!
File based audio....buy the CD after hearing it on Spotify or the likes and rip it lossless.
But.....when you spin that black bit of plastic and it comes together-it just does something intangible sonically that is beguiling.
Fuck,Fuck,Fuck its shite having to admit the best sound ive heard hi fi wise came from a record player...its 2017 ffs.
Ditto! CD/Digital OK for researching music but vinyl for the ultimate experience!
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