Valve Wizard MM valve PCB build

[Bigman80]

Hi all,

I recently decided that being mentally deficient in regard to electronics was really starting to get on my Tits.

I bought a phonostage which had many documented mods and set about changing a few bits but it really didn't "educate" me, rather just refined my ability to solder (and desolder)

After some research it seemed the logical choice was to build something easy. I bought a DC filtering PCB and built that. Very good, all works and I now know what a diode is. Again I felt I needed more.

I decided a MM phonostage would probably be beneficial In a number of ways. So a long search of the internet brought me to

theValveWizard.co.uk.

I bought a MM PCB and got a very easy to follow component flow chart and an instruction PDF. An abunce of emails between Alan and myself followed and eventually I started to order some parts.

I won't bore with the details but it's going to have two PCC88 valves and a single ECC83. All the square capacitors are Polypropylene and all but two resistors are metal film. Ceramic valve holders and I used silver solder because I had it left over.

I now have a suitable donor case (Thanks Phonomac!) case to put the board and power supply in and a very nice transformer for which I still have to pay Alan 🤣

Here's the pics of the board in its current statehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171129/4697237ea077a3414f0c5131b395c60c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171129/f220eacf8565815190937f3932571d1d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171129/d32a34fac13c59663d673ddd7d35f061.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171129/06afdd6de04857ee5efb9c4119938cd4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171129/9cd0b2ef325f685490aac85b5c0186da.jpg

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[Firebottle]

Can I nitpick already?

Looks like C11 is a 5% tolerance whereas the blue capacitors fitted in C1 position are the 1% caps I gave you for C11 position I think.

It's a good looking pcb.

:D

[Bigman80]

Can I nitpick already?

Looks like C11 is a 5% tolerance whereas the blue capacitors fitted in C1 position are the 1% caps I gave you for C11 position I think.

It's a good looking pcb.

:DYou can!

Doh! A Mistake already.

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[walpurgis]

Good to see you having a go Oliver.

A diode was the first component I learned about, along with a variable capacitor and coil when I built a crystral set radio at about the age of eight. Dad was an electronics 'wiz', so I started early.

Have you looked at a diode rectifier? It still tickles me that it's such an elegant and simple idea.

You'll have to figure out a triode now! :D

[Bigman80]

Good to see you having a go Oliver.

A diode was the first component I learned about, along with a variable capacitor and coil when I built a crystral set radio at about the age of eight. Dad was an electronics 'wiz', so I started early.

Have you looked at a diode rectifier? It still tickles me that it's such an elegant and simple idea.

You'll have to figure out a triode now! :DCheers Geoff, my old man was a plumber and worked on the railway. I learned electrical installation and now work on the Railway lol. I can rewire your house, fit you a bathroom or manage the customer information of a fleet of 104 rolling stock (train sets) during disruption, but soldering a Valve holder onto a PCB was another matter lol.

Onwards to knowledge!

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[Primalsea]

Really curious to see how this turns out.

[walpurgis]

Cheers Geoff, my old man was a plumber

Ah. So you understand a tap then, A triode is the electrical equivalent, the grid doing the job of a tap washer! :)

[Bigman80]

Ah. So you understand a tap then, A triode is the electrical equivalent, the grid doing the job of a tap washer! :)Indeed. It was a breakthrough when I understood Ohms Law. Alan tried to explain it but it didn't sink in, a YouTube video however cemented in my brain. Gotta love YouTube!

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[walpurgis]

Building speakers can be fun too. I've made loads. The options are limitless.

[Ali Tait]

Looks good Oli, soldering looks tidy.

[Bigman80]

Looks good Oli, soldering looks tidy.Thanks Ali, [emoji1]

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[Bigman80]

A quick check of the valve holders

Variable resistors arrived today but they are too big. Balls.

Nevermind. A quick chat reveals I've put the wrong caps in C1 and C21. Nothing major just frustrating!!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171130/410c991d06a254c44e65bec8b0eaa74f.jpg

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[Puffin]

A trick of the light looks like the left valve is glowing.....as if by magic:eek:

[Bigman80]

Cheeky update

Manage to get all the components into the PCB now. The two red WIMA caps are still to come out in place of better tolerance ones but that will be done tomorrow.

The heatsink (?) on the left of the PCB will be mirrored by another on the right which I'm hoping adds some protection from interference but I could be talking utter shit.

Very happy with the board so far. If it works, I'll be happier [emoji23]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171206/486bd669a64204c19fa3a819ae1a4723.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171206/242fbd716bf750b15305cf85df95427a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171206/2a0313cb8493874ee652a8ccd8f70998.jpg

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[RothwellAudio]

The heatsink (?) on the left of the PCB will be mirrored by another on the right which I'm hoping adds some protection from interference but I could be talking utter shit.
The heatsinks won't do anything to reduce noise pickup - just having the case earthed to screen the circuit will be fine.

[Bigman80]

The heatsinks won't do anything to reduce noise pickup - just having the case earthed to screen the circuit will be fine.As I suspected, I was talking shit [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Thanks for the info, it does say that in the build guide.

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[agk]

Cheeky? Are you mooning us as you type?

Seriously though, looks like good work to me. Neat soldering. I have to say its a massive case, good quality aluminium cases can be had for less than a tenner from our Chinese friends.

[Bigman80]

Cheeky? Are you mooning us as you type?

Seriously though, looks like good work to me. Neat soldering. I have to say its a massive case, good quality aluminium cases can be had for less than a tenner from our Chinese friends.I agree on the soldering [emoji23][emoji23]

The case is too big at present, I agree BUT it's a temporary measure. Just something to see if it works, how it sounds and if it's worth boxing up nicely.



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[agk]

Good man.

I suspect with Alan's input you've constructed a Phono stage supreme.

[Bigman80]

Good man.

I suspect with Alan's input you've constructed a Phono stage supreme.It would be nice to get a good quality sound out of it but it remains to be seen

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[RothwellAudio]

It would be nice to get a good quality sound out of it but it remains to be seen.

I checked out the design and looks to be very sensible - I don't doubt it will sound good.

[Bigman80]

I checked out the design and looks to be very sensible - I don't doubt it will sound good.Thanks for taking the time to do that, Andrew. I am hopeful. Alan and a couple of other guys have said it's a pretty decent design at least. For £6 the PCB was cheap and the components have probably come in for less than £60 the Transformer is £30 so £100 ish. It's been a good learning curve so far.



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[Bigman80]

Cheekier Update

After 6 hours at Alan's today, we have a fully Working phonostage.

It's a lash up power supply but there is a board here for a power supply which will be made up in the future.

Here's the pics from today

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171207/63989bf85d0519980cdae00437c08149.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171207/25308fc4a4d47ce733664ec89a157ccd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171207/52c3327d1a22e879945830c0062379b8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171207/56c857b2cfe7f83a4effad8c2ecdecec.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171207/a2625be8c817cb74536382d9b149ce3a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171207/3cc96ff6e1895d33b0711afd651a049a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171207/9f3f4cfaa58616a5b10ee47a72bef064.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171207/1433dcbc9f6835f3b5de8242528a4beb.jpg

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[Bigman80]

Managed to get a good couple of hours of listening and I am very surprised at how good it is!

Very very nice midrange and extended highs. The bass is hard to judge because I'm experimenting with a new cartridge but it's very Rich and textured.

I have some hum which wasn't there on the bench at Alan's, so I must have an earthing issue somewhere.

Is it worth re-boxing in to a nice enclosure?

Definitely. It's hard to imagine putting the Jolida back in at the minute.

Huge thanks to Alan! Without his help and tutelage (correct spelling?), it would never have made it to a working unit!!!!

I'll post the pictures of the re-boxing when it takes place.





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[smangus]

So is this the birth of a Bigbottle or Fireman80? :);)

[Bigman80]

So is this the birth of a Bigbottle or Fireman80? :);)Hahaha BIGbottle. That made me laugh mate.

No, it's a PCB made by Valve Wizard. I can't claim any creative input on that. I just did it for my own experience.

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[smangus]

Cool always good to learn new stuff.

[Bigman80]

It's been very cool. Great sound I'm getting too.

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[Firebottle]

Whoo hooo :hifive:

Yes I thought it would sound rather good with the Decca. It's a very good design, preferable in my eyes to the EAR 834 clones.

For anyone thinking of building this don't forget to bias the heater supply up to 60-70 volts above ground to meet heater to cathode limits.

:)

[Bigman80]

Case is here but errrr might be a touch on the big side! Pic to follow

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[walpurgis]

Case is here but errrr might be a touch on the big side!

Like this maybe? :D

http://i64.tinypic.com/14yaivr.jpg

[Bigman80]

Like this maybe? :D

http://i64.tinypic.com/14yaivr.jpgHahaha nearly lol

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[Bigman80]

Not far off as I said 🤣https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171219/731f60fd0ac9a949694a70a46ee1d540.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171219/b8f22e7dbaaf3c3a0396e7e8f961c44d.jpg

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[Firebottle]

Well at least it fits on the shelf :eyebrows:

[Bigman80]

Well at least it fits on the shelf :eyebrows:Lol there is that.

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[Bigman80]

So here we are, at the end of the build. I've learned a lot and ended up with a very fine phonostage at the end.

I have to thank Alan, whom made this possible. The little things like drilling the case for the standoffs were driving me nuts but Alan showed his skill and knocked it up in no time.

I am going to see if a smaller case pops up at a good price and maybe transfer the guts as this one is ridiculously big.

Other than that, it has a sound which is very desirable and addictive. It's good enough for me to consider selling the Jolida and think I wouldn't miss it.

In the build.

The TF has a lot of vibration and that was being transferred to the sound. A few grommets in the right fixing positions has eliminated this and I have him and buzz free sound. A very good hack indeed.

Here are the pics. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171228/21549f7aab4b472888cdec2281a95861.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171228/d1a5552ba7ff80ac4e183bde1e8cc49a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171228/173fc30a1c391c6da52c321e757263fa.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171228/bced6726586a50e928e501049a9cab2f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171228/58e61e9c9c5ccc29ec4eb2dd0418192c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171228/2f0c710bcf67e850e5d0bd95806ef5dd.jpg

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[walpurgis]

Well done mate. It's always very satisfying building something successfully.

[Bigman80]

Well done mate. It's always very satisfying building something successfully.Thanks Geoff. I have to say my input seems a lot less than Alan's [emoji23][emoji23] the power supply took ages in comparison to building the board.

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[struth]

Very professional. Good on ya

[Bigman80]

Very professional. Good on ya[emoji1]

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[Primalsea]

Looking good. I think you have quite a decent phono stage there and you’ll always have potential for a bit of a tweak here and there in the future.

[Bigman80]

Looking good. I think you have quite a decent phono stage there and you’ll always have potential for a bit of a tweak here and there in the future.Thanks Paul,

There are a couple of tweaks planned. [emoji6]

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[Firebottle]

So here we are, at the end of the build. I've learned a lot and ended up with a very fine phonostage at the end.

I have to thank Alan, whom made this possible.

No problem mate, it's great to experiment with alternative circuitry, particularly when it produces excellent results.

Plus it's great what can be achieved with a good rummage in the spares box ;)

[Bigman80]

No problem mate, it's great to experiment with alternative circuitry, particularly when it produces excellent results.

Plus it's great what can be achieved with a good rummage in the spares box ;)You have more gear than eBay [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

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[Bigman80]

Had this on for a few hours and it's very good and very enjoyable. Doesn't have the clean lines of the Vivant or Jolida BUT I think that's down to the Harma ECC83 I've had to bung in. The Telefunken died [emoji31]

It was old and an unknown quantity but the Harma has definitely altered the character of the sound. Looks like I need a Telefunken or another Tesla for a matching set.

I do have two Telefunkens in the Jolida. That's tomorrow's experiment sorted [emoji16]

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[Bigman80]

Anyone have a Tesla ECC83 I could borrow ?

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[Bigman80]

Firebottle mods, NOS Telefunkens installed, Excessive damping rings in place and now finished.

Conclusion to follow. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180109/5f7c78f3dbcc4df0af3110d1f89e87d4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180109/62d63281fceaefd0dd274ccb4d01399e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180109/29922f69e5ceeb2555e3719b50cfa2db.jpg

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[karma67]

the cock rings are a nice touch!:lol:

[Bigman80]

the cock rings are a nice touch![emoji38]They're from my personal collection [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

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[Bigman80]

Conclusion

As I sit here basking in the glorious sweet sound of my new phono stage, I thought it only fair to give a conclusion of what's gone on with it and where it stands now.

Well, to start off, when this was built and being tested and played I felt just enough confidence to sell the Jolida on. It wasn't confidence in the Phonostage itself, oh no, that sounded a little small on the sound stage and resolution wasn't on a par with the Jolida either. It was also a little too vague with the treble. My confidence came from a chat with Mr Firebottle, who convinced me that his mods would open and expand this suckers sound stage, improve the resolution and bring out it's best version of itself.

He was very right.

He can't have all the credit though! Telefunken must get some too because even though the Tesla valves are superb for £25 a pair, they are not on the Telefunken level. Crystal clean sound. HF extension and bass to dive for (because it's soooo deep) and the MIDs are pure valve tone. Unrivalled in my experience. Not warm just transparent and sweet.

Playing "Summertime" by Duke Ellington brings a trumpet sound the likes of which have been unheard of in my home. Clarinets, oboes and any other instrument I name have pure unyielding tone. The breath of the player diminishes at the end of the note and the detailed decay of his efforts to hold the note is apparent and captivating. The echos of the auditorium where it was recorded, bounce and reverb and if I close my eyes, I feel the space.

"A day in the life" The Beatles - John Lennon wrote this song and sang it to me today. I can see him sat at his piano, looking forward and singing into the microphone. The panning sensation as he moves his head and the impact the hammer has on the piano wire is vivid and Holographic. The way the orchestra build up to the Middle eight is cacophonous and when Paul McCartney sings about having a cup of tea and catching the bus, I'm with him, on the commute. The final note is a multitude of pianos playing the same note in different octaves. There were more pianos today than there has been before, ever.

The truth is, Alan suggested linearity is the key to a phonostage performing at its best and whatever he did today to this phono stage is magical. It's also a mystery!

The Wizard cost ......... probably maybe £250-£350, not counting all the free hours of Alan's time he spent on the PS and getting the RIAA EQ right (it's still not quite accurate but it'll be done shortly) add the cost of the valves £130ish and it's adding up BUT it's right up there with the very best I've heard and that's me done. No more buying phonostages. It's really that good to me. I love it. I may be tempted to re-home the guts into a smaller enclosure and will definitely add a power button but other than that, i am one happy bunny.

The project has been enlightening and educational. I'm not up to scratch but I definitely hold more knowledge now than ever before. My respect for ANYONE who builds and designs these things is at the highest level. It's a labour of love.

I highly recommend a project like this if you're interested in improving your knowledge but suggest you have someone you can call or converse with if you get stuck. Mr Firebottle, you are a legend. Thanks for all of your help. Again! 🤣


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[Firebottle]

:yay: :mex: :hairmetal: :wowzer:

So glad you got there Oli, 'He can't have all the credit though! Telefunken must get some too ', I'll have to bow to that one.

:D

[Bigman80]

:yay: :mex: :hairmetal: :wowzer:

So glad you got there Oli, 'He can't have all the credit though! Telefunken must get some too ', I'll have to bow to that one.

:D[emoji23] I tried the Tesla and as good as they are, the Telefunken are cleaner. Nice options to have though. Plus, my valve draw is filling up!

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[Shadow Moses]

Conclusion

As I sit here basking in the glorious sweet sound of my new phono stage, I thought it only fair to give a conclusion of what's gone on with it and where it stands now.

Well, to start off, when this was built and being tested and played I felt just enough confidence to sell the Jolida on. It wasn't confidence in the Phonostage itself, oh no, that sounded a little small on the sound stage and resolution wasn't on a par with the Jolida either. It was also a little too vague with the treble. My confidence came from a chat with Mr Firebottle, who convinced me that his mods would open and expand this suckers sound stage, improve the resolution and bring out it's best version of itself.

He was very right.

He can't have all the credit though! Telefunken must get some too because even though the Tesla valves are superb for £25 a pair, they are not on the Telefunken level. Crystal clean sound. HF extension and bass to dive for (because it's soooo deep) and the MIDs are pure valve tone. Unrivalled in my experience. Not warm just transparent and sweet.

Playing "Summertime" by Duke Ellington brings a trumpet sound the likes of which have been unheard of in my home. Clarinets, oboes and any other instrument I name have pure unyielding tone. The breath of the player diminishes at the end of the note and the detailed decay of his efforts to hold the note is apparent and captivating. The echos of the auditorium where it was recorded, bounce and reverb and if I close my eyes, I feel the space.

"A day in the life" The Beatles - John Lennon wrote this song and sang it to me today. I can see him sat at his piano, looking forward and singing into the microphone. The panning sensation as he moves his head and the impact the hammer has on the piano wire is vivid and Holographic. The way the orchestra build up to the Middle eight is cacophonous and when Paul McCartney sings about having a cup of tea and catching the bus, I'm with him, on the commute. The final note is a multitude of pianos playing the same note in different octaves. There were more pianos today than there has been before, ever.

The truth is, Alan suggested linearity is the key to a phonostage performing at its best and whatever he did today to this phono stage is magical. It's also a mystery!

The Wizard cost ......... probably maybe £250-£350, not counting all the free hours of Alan's time he spent on the PS and getting the RIAA EQ right (it's still not quite accurate but it'll be done shortly) add the cost of the valves £130ish and it's adding up BUT it's right up there with the very best I've heard and that's me done. No more buying phonostages. It's really that good to me. I love it. I may be tempted to re-home the guts into a smaller enclosure and will definitely add a power button but other than that, i am one happy bunny.

The project has been enlightening and educational. I'm not up to scratch but I definitely hold more knowledge now than ever before. My respect for ANYONE who builds and designs these things is at the highest level. It's a labour of love.

I highly recommend a project like this if you're interested in improving your knowledge but suggest you have someone you can call or converse with if you get stuck. Mr Firebottle, you are a legend. Thanks for all of your help. Again! 🤣


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Sounds as if it's fantastic, congrats.
Alan Firebottle is a guru, I've learned loads from him

[Bigman80]

Thanks Neil, it's really good. I was a little bit in shock at how good it is. I'm very pleased and yes, guru is right.

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[Firebottle]

... guru is tight.

Oi, I haven't touched a drop .........

https://responsivereiding.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/super-drunk-5.jpg

[Bigman80]

Lol

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[Bigman80]

Nice new power button. Mmmmm. Nice

New RCA plug sockets too. I'll put a pic on tomorrowhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180209/09a477289e19bfe49a0a43fae88b9512.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180209/3b8495771d215d1a07859b33a2a70794.jpg

[Bigman80]

A little development has taken place. The Wizard will now have a JFET MC stage fitted to convert it from MM to MC. After spending a lot of time with different HA's and SUTs, I really feel this approach offers the best of both worlds and I can't seem to find any reason it's not as good as any other method I've tried.

The Circuit Design is being kindly donated by Firebottle from his improved Vivant and this unit has largely been responsible for my decision to go down that route.

The Vivant has been tweaked to improve the function of the JFET input and has been very successful in lowering the background noise and cleaning up the signal. This was something that came to light after using a Valve HA with the Vivant, which instantaneously highlighted the flaws of the previous arrangement and demonstrated what is possible when the signal is processed well.

The result is an incredibly clean sounding stage with space and flow. The fluid nature of the SUTs I tried seems to still be present although a slightly presentation and the enhanced sound I experienced with the HA is completely absent. Timbral qualities have improved and the lower level detail is now apparent rather than masked. I am really looking forward to seeing what this will do to the Wizard.

It's a compromise of the good bits of both SUTs and Headamps but it'll be the end game for this phonostage. As long as it's as good as in the Vivant [emoji6]


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180215/f051c1a71be400e9619f03bd92bc2694.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180215/0b19b997d0bb535edbb9738e05320ae8.jpg

[Bigman80]

Yesterday saw the Wizard transferred to its permanent case.

It's steel and has a steel divider in the chassis to separate the PS from the PCB. I chose his design to eliminate the humbit had been suffering with. To ensure things went as planned, I bought a Transformer shield from AliExpress and a high quality audiophile TF from Toriody.pl. Have to say Tomasz was great to deal with but the Toroid had really short cables when it came. Must ask for longer!

Once again, Alan helped massively in the relocation task. His experience of building phonostages and the like, is very gratefully received.

Outcome, no hum, no mechanical buzz, and nothing but a smile on my face.

This proves to me that it is easily possible to have the PSU and PCB in one case. You just need high quality components and excellent shielding. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180525/e2cdea3d92cfa23710062ba602749f6d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180525/4ea385f8fc8d7ea8543b80a221356a85.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180525/98ae77f28f41e48c2f78df486b8c7e41.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180525/3980f27fcd6ec72c0dd71f3ea7d29ea4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180525/05eca55dd612d04386c4d28c383c8206.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180525/11629c381ba837b43ba003b3c67a0cdf.jpg