New tt rig needed? Suggestions please!

[jandl100]

Hmmmm ... not really sure what to do here, so I thought I'd ask you fine folks for some advice. :)

I've had my Yamaha PF-800 deck/arm for quite a while (for me!), and I'm beginning to get a bit restless.

http://www.thevintageknob.org/YAMAHA/PF1000/PF1000.html

It's nice sounding, although not the last word in dynamic contrasts or rez. I think someone here called these decks 'sweet sounding' and I think that is pretty much spot on.

I think I'd like something with a little more fizz and 'get up & go'. :)

I don't want to spend a huge amount - well under £1k, preferably circa £500 or less. I'm not after the ultimate tt system (obviously) but I tend to like my turntables a bit out of the ordinary .... as you can probably tell from the Yamaha! :eyebrows:

I'll be sticking with the Ortofon Rondo Bronze cart for now as that fellow at The Analog Factory STILL hasn't got back to me with a replacement modded Denon 103. :steam:

Any thoughts / suggestions? :scratch:

[The Grand Wazoo]

If you're quick!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Revox-B791-Parallel-Tracking-Direct-Drive-Turntable_W0QQitemZ260553235458QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Turntables?has h=item3caa2edc02

[John]

a bit more costly
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AVID-DIVA-MK-I-TURNTABLE_W0QQitemZ300397252451QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Turntables?has h=item45f1124f63

[jandl100]

If you're quick!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Revox-B791-Parallel-Tracking-Direct-Drive-Turntable_W0QQitemZ260553235458QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Turntables?has h=item3caa2edc02

Interesting.

There was a similar Revox discussed on the Wigwam recently, and it was not held in very high regard by some folks who had owned one. :scratch:

Also - how suitable are these for mc carts?

[jandl100]

a bit more costly
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AVID-DIVA-MK-I-TURNTABLE_W0QQitemZ300397252451QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Turntables?has h=item45f1124f63

Thanks John - but once an arm is added it's rather more than I want to pay!

I should add that, due to rampaging cats, a lid is essential! :rolleyes: :)

[hifi_dave]

Interesting.

There was a similar Revox discussed on the Wigwam recently, and it was not held in very high regard by some folks who had owned one. :scratch:

Also - how suitable are these for mc carts?

Not the last word in sound quality, problemmatical and no spares now (I believe), I think the best turntables are simple.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Not the last word in sound quality, ........and no spares now (I believe)

.........just like Jerry's Yamaha then?

[jandl100]

.........just like Jerry's Yamaha then?

Well, the Yammie is simple enough, really - just a 3 point suspension and belts and headshells are readily available and cheap from the States - I bought a new belt when I first got the tt.

[The Grand Wazoo]

The Revox idea was because you said you'd like to try something different.
A TT that cleans the stylus after every side is a little different, I'd say! It's also got quite incredible resistance to external shocks, apparently.

[jandl100]

It's also got quite incredible resistance to external shocks, apparently.

Ah -- that could be handy with the cats! :lol:

[John]

Why not get a lenco It means a bit of DIY but a great sounding deck and lots of potential With a slate and decent arm nothing in this price range will come close

[John]

I heard the Revox a few weeks ago not for me

[DSJR]

A GL75 is still affordable, will hold its value as long as it's not bodged to death (doesn't need it to be honest) and even the arm will take some good cartridges despite its high mass - just replace the knife edge bearing blocks which are available from a number of sources (Technical & General do the official ones).

Suitable cartridges for the above - old Shures like the M55E and M75-EJ were fitted when new, the M3D with N21 stylus would be quite at home as well as the M97-EJ if you can find one, the AT95E (Shibata stylus available for it in the US) and a current unknown like the Ortofon OM Arkiv will be fine.

Obviously, many people ditch the arm and use something else and if you do, especially if you leave the top plate alone, the sky's the limit depending on the plinth you use. The turntable drive is certainly up to it, even with original mat surprisingly.

[Primalsea]

Jerry,

It strikes me that you might have a lot of fun buying a real basic TT like a Pro-Ject Debut or Genie and then play around modding it. When you get tired of the sound have a play with it, change the platter, dampen the tone arm etc.

[jandl100]

Thanks guys - I'm really not a DIYer ... happy to fit an alternative arm provided it just slots in! But that's it. I know my limitations! :scratch:

Must admit I've been pondering maybe getting the next Pioneer PL-71 to come along .... many folks rave about them and I do like DD for it's speed security. The arm would be a reasonable match for a mc cart, too. Waddyathink?

I've also rather lusted after a Luxman dd tt - cos they look so cool! :eek: Any thoughts on those?

[DSJR]

Luxman DD's range from bloody marvellous to bloody awful, the PD300 one which sucked the record onto the platter being one of the best ones at the time...

PL-71? The arm is obviously from the same stable as the Rega R200 of old, and probably better, but I remain to be convinced as the whole shebang sounds too bassy for me on the needle-frops I've heard..

A Techie would do it all for you, you know..... I know it's boring to follow everyone elses path, but at least you'll know what your getting..

OK, another one and cheap too - AR Legend... Easy setup, some have Jelco arms on, a great sound in the PT category of deftness rather than plodding along and potentially a winner if it has the later bearing and is set up carefully. The lighter platter and solid drive (talc on belt notwithstanding) doesn't suffer the transient wow that the older Linns and Thorens can have.

[jandl100]

A Techie, eh? Hmmmm ... well, why not! - a 1210? - the well-beaten path and all that. OK - I'll look into that. :) Anything particular I should look out for?

[John]

I not heard the PL 71 but plenty people really rate it. The 1210 might be a good route instead of getting a new TT you could get the next mod upgrade instead in the end you may end up with something similar to a SP10

[MartinT]

I've been beaten to it but you could pick up a used but good condition SL-1210 and send it to Dave C for 'TimeStepping'. That will give you a deck with a very good basic performance and should fit within your budget.

The benefit is that the sky's the limit if you decide to go further along the upgrade path, including a stonking arm to go with the improved performance. They look quite cool too.

[jandl100]

:cool:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220557257557&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

:carrot:

[Marco]

Therein madness lies.... :eyebrows:

If you need tips on the best (most cost-effective) ways to mod it, let me know ;)

Marco.

[Primalsea]

What was the model number of the battleship build Pioneer linear tracker, they look pretty interesting. I saw one once good build quality and good sound by the accounts I've heard.

[MartinT]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220557257557&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

:carrot:

Well done! The journey starts here... ;)

[jandl100]

Therein madness lies.... :eyebrows:

If you need tips on the best (most cost-effective) ways to mod it, let me know ;)

Marco.

Thanks Marco :) - yup, I'll set up the beastie as-is and then take it from there. I've seen some folks recommend a Sumiko headshell (?) as a good and trivial first step ..?

(Btw - I will be needing your address again - I cleared out my PM inbox the day before the cable thing came up! :doh:).

I like direct drives - the feeling of total speed security is a very fine thing with much classical music.

But first thing is to see how it does on the 'musicality' stakes against my Yamaha. I imagine a very different sort of sound will be had - 3 point spring suspension belt drive .vs. no suspension direct drive. :eyebrows: ...

... I recall the lad Gromit's Techie Odyssey ... he didn't really like it from the off, and no amount of modding really changed that.

[MartinT]

Jerry

The Sumiko headshell is good for a first step. It's hard to say for certain what order you should do things in, but really I think the TimeStep PSU should come next. For sound quality improvement I would then go for the audiophile mat as it makes a surprising difference. What cartridge will you be using?

[chris@panteg]

I agree with Martin here ' and maybe then the Timestep main bearing ' which is a very cost effective upgrade , but it depends if you want to go the whole distance ' Mike new bearing and upcoming Platter .

Then of course there is the arm to consider .

[Marco]

Hi Jerry,


Thanks Marco - yup, I'll set up the beastie as-is and then take it from there. I've seen some folks recommend a Sumiko headshell (?) as a good and trivial first step ..?


No worries, dude.

Yep, most definitely - and a good mat. The latter choice will depend on which cartridge you use (bearing in mind that the stock Techy arm is no great shakes with MCs, it'll really need to be an MM - don't have any notions of using your Orty on it, although you might get away with the modded 103), as mats (like anything else) all have their own 'sonic signature'. You have to choose one which compliments that of your arm and cartridge.

Also, swap the stock feet for Isonoes. Personally, I'd do all that first before forking out for an off-board PSU, as the latter will be pointless and a complete waste of money if you don't like the basic sound of the Techy (and thus can't appreciate it's further potential) once all of the above is in place.

Only go to the expense of buying the likes of a Time Step PSU *if* you enjoy the T/Ts inherent 'musicality' with a decent mat, headshell and feet fitted - that way if you don't like it you can sell it on easily as a lightly-modded 1210 without taking a hit on the cost of an off-board PSU :)


(Btw - I will be needing your address again - I cleared out my PM inbox the day before the cable thing came up! :doh:).


I'll PM it to you now.


I like direct drives - the feeling of total speed security is a very fine thing with much classical music.


That's a very valid point, and something you'll easily notice!


But first thing is to see how it does on the 'musicality' stakes against my Yamaha. I imagine a very different sort of sound will be had - 3 point spring suspension belt drive .vs. no suspension direct drive. :eyebrows: ...

... I recall the lad Gromit's Techie Odyssey ... he didn't really like it from the off, and no amount of modding really changed that.

Indeed, and that may well happen with you, too, so it's a chance you'll be taking.

The mistake Richard made though, IMO, was using it with a tonearm (modded Rega) that in my opinion didn't suit the presentation of the turntable, which of course he could hear, but unfortunately tried to fix by adding something that was never going to fix it (namely a Time Step PSU), which only served to highlight even more what was 'wrong', although he would've gained some other musical improvements obtained by adding any type of high quality off-board PSU.

As Dave C always says, it's about adopting a 'holistic' approach. There will be plenty of people on hand to help you achieve that by offering the benefits of their experience from going down this route with our own SL-1200s and 1210s :cool:

Marco.

[jandl100]

Thanks for the extensive reply, Marco.

Bloody hell .... give up using MCs? :doh: No-one told me about that little item of small print! :( I think I'd find it really really hard to go back to a MM cart. MCs (ime) are just so much better at retrieving (or maybe creating! :eyebrows:) the ambience in a good classical recording. MMs sound flat and grey in comparion ...?

I certainly will try the Orty Rondo Bronze (still no response from that Analog Factory Denon 103 seller on a replacement :rolleyes: - I'm getting a bad feeling about that) but will consider other options if it does sound dire, including a MM experiment. Suggestions in advance?

[MartinT]

The Denon DL-160 may work in the Technics arm, it's a relatively light tracker and doesn't seem to put too much energy back into the arm. Lovely sound, too.

[Marco]

Hi Jerry,

Try it with the Orty first in the Sumiko headshell, which you'll need anyway, (it'll probably sound crap in the stock Techy one) and see what happens, then we'll take it from there with respect to recommended MMs... Hey, you never know, the Orty might sound great from the off! :)

Unfortunately, however, I got to this thread late, otherwise I'd have mentioned the (possible) MC cartridge situation before you bought the Techy.....

One has to remember that the stock Techy arm is nowhere near the quality of the one on, for example the PL-71, which is one of the main reasons why many (such as RD) claim the latter as better, along with the fact that it also has a much better stock PSU. The PL-71 is also undeniably better value for money than a stock or even lightly modified Techy, in terms of SPPV, presuming you can find one in full working order and aren't concerned about future reliability.

It's only 'better', however, until one addresses the weaknesses (admittedly at some expense) inherent in the Techy. Once done, however, the Techy then outperforms the PL-71 by a considerable margin, and when the likes of the Mike New bearing is added, then leaves it for dust. It just depends on how far you want to go. If you can afford it, the Techy can eventually be turned into a truly 'world-class' high-end T/T, which will unlikely be the case with any PL-71.

Keep me posted how you get on - and remember I'm only a keyboard away to help! :cool:

Marco.

[DSJR]

In a Sumiko shell, the Rondo may surprise you. The cheaper Ortofon MC's traditionally were never arm-killers, so give it a go!!!

Getting the deck to behave with feet and mat/clamp (Dave C's is the one I'd start with), will help the existing arm to behave better I reckon and you can then decide where to go from here.. Just my POV obviously...

I do think that an arm with adjustable height (and a deliberate break instead of the Rega one-piece approach) would suit the Techie better should you wish to change the arm later on..

[Marco]

The Denon DL-160 may work in the Technics arm, it's a relatively light tracker and doesn't seem to put too much energy back into the arm. Lovely sound, too.

Agreed, Martin - the Denon may work well. I'm just trying to keep the cost down for Jerry and make sure that he doesn't waste a lot of money 'chasing shadows', as it were :)

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Dave,


I do think that an arm with adjustable height (and a deliberate break instead of the Rega one-piece approach) would suit the Techie better should you wish to change the arm later on..


So going on that theory, the Jelco 750 I use must be pish, then? Bollocks!!! :lol:

;)

Marco.

[DSJR]

You mis-understand mate.. The 750 is ideal BECAUSE it has adjustable height and isn't a one-piece arm with no height adjustment as the Rega's are.

Do you understand me now?????

[Marco]

Yes, lol, but you didn't make yourself very clear before! ;)

Marco.

[DSJR]

Senior moment - all these hormonal Year 8 and 9's are doing my head in :lol:

[jandl100]

OK - I've got no worries about buying the Techie - as long as the condition is as stated I should have no trouble selling it on for the same sort of price.

Maybe the 1st upgrade for me should be the tonearm? I've just invested in a new Sumiko headshell on eBay ... so I'll see how it goes with that.

[MartinT]

all these hormonal Year 8 and 9's are doing my head in :lol:

<sympathy>
I've just returned from an incredibly noisy dining hall where the staggered lunch system seems to have failed and all the girls came at once. The estrogen overload has given me a headache :steam:

[jandl100]

<sympathy>
I've just returned from an incredibly noisy dining hall where the staggered lunch system seems to have failed and all the girls came at once. The estrogen overload has given me a headache :steam:

:stalks::stalks::stalks:

:lolsign:

[Marco]

Maybe the 1st upgrade for me should be the tonearm? I've just invested in a new Sumiko headshell on eBay ... so I'll see how it goes with that.

I wouldn't do that, Jerry, without attending to the headshell, mat and feet first - the effect of upgrading the latter is extremely significant, particularly depending on what type of surface the deck will be sitting on - trust me on that :)

If you can afford to do all four things at once, then of course go for it - providing that you fit a tonearm which suits the presentation of the Techy, such as the Jelco SA-250T Martin will be selling soon... That would be a brilliant match for your Orty ;)

Marco.

[jandl100]

OK - mat & feet still to go. From where?

[MartinT]

providing that you fit a tonearm which suits the presentation of the Techy, such as the Jelco SA-250T Martin will be selling soon ;)

Too late - Hamish has laid claim to it already :eyebrows:

[DSJR]

Sorbothane boots and Herbies mat from Dave Cawley as he has the proper sized one for the Techie platter and a rather tasty looking clamp as well.......

[MartinT]

OK - mat & feet still to go. From where?

For mat, Dave C's modified Herbies is excellent. Feet-wise, try the cheapie sorbothane feet first - they fit the Techie holes and work pretty well. Isonoes are better but much more expensive.

[Marco]

OK - mat & feet still to go. From where?


Ok, my advice would be to go for some Isonoes and a Sound Hi-fi mat from Dave C (or wherever you can buy them from cheapest - bear in mind though that he price matches and you will get an AOS discount), as it's a tried and tested combo that unquestionably works very well.

I also think that the effect would synergise well with the Orty or modded 103 (which hopefully you will get sorted out soon!).

However, Sorbothane feet might work better still if you're sitting the deck on a wooden surface - you need to give me some more info in that respect.......... :)

Personally, I'd skip the clamp, as it's expensive and IMO of questionable benefit. Whether it 'works' or not as intended is very system-dependant, as the Techy was not originally designed to be used with a record clamp.

Marco.

[jandl100]

Oof! - just checked the price on the mat ... £90. Errr ... I'll wait on that! :lol:

No point in adding half as much again to the cost of the deck without even hearing it!!

I've got some sorbothane footers knocking around - I'll figure out a way to use them if I can.

I'll stop at the Sumiko headshell in terms of expense for now. :)

[Marco]

It won't cost you £90, though, if you PM Dave and speak to him nicely ;)

That's a sensible decision, however - take it slowly a step at a time, and try and make sure you don't make any expensive mistakes :)

Marco.

[Hypnotoad]

How about another Yamaha, this time the venerable PX-2 linear tracker.

[Hypnotoad]

How does a custom Techy compare to one of these?:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VPSCM9

Has anyone had the two side by side for a comparison.

I know the standard Techy is no match for my ProJect Perspective in any way shape or form. If a custom one could beat the Scoutmaster I might be interested.

[Marco]

Hi Phillip,

I wouldn't know, as I've never done the comparison. No doubt though that the VPI is a very fine deck - in fact, the mid-priced VPIs are amongst my favourite (affordable) belt-drive T/Ts, mainly because they're properly engineered! :cool:

Marco.

[Hypnotoad]

Hi Phillip,

I wouldn't know, as I've never done the comparison. No doubt though that the VPI is a very fine deck - in fact, the mid-priced VPIs are amongst my favourite (affordable) belt-drive T/Ts, mainly because they're properly engineered! :cool:

Marco.

And no doubt the custom Techy is very fine also, it would be great to have a comparison.

Hopefully in a couple of years you will see the Scoutmaster for half the price of new.:eyebrows:

[chris@panteg]

I would love to hear one of those ' it looks to be a superb design .

[MartinT]

I've heard the VPI and it's a very fine deck. Unfortunately I haven't heard it side by side with my Techie, but I don't think the Techie (in my state of modification) loses anything to it.