The Abbey Road Studios RIP OFF

[Bksabath]

2199621997The Abbey Road Studios RIP OFF
I have bought a copy of Free Fire and water and compared tothe original Island ILPS9120 that it was going to replace I have found it to beCompressed lifeless dull and distorted
The hi frequencies that the super duper A4 certificate somuch brag about is not there
And the hi quality of that piece of paper whit the nice goldstamp preclude any more practical use for it.
The record run off is about 3 times larger than in theoriginal and this is a clear sign of poor mastering.
This is what Michael Fremerhave to say about the Rolling Stone Issue
https://www.analogplanet.com/content/new-exile-main-street-%C2%A0using-original-analog-master-tape-doubtful
Quote :
First, it's obvious that an advertising copy writerhas gotten his hands on a list of audiophile vernacular and he (or she) issprinkling it liberally and thoughtlessly.
The claim made here is that the original master tapes have been used to producethese half speed mastered cuts. Is that true? I very much doubt it. Ithink what's being used are digital files sourced at some point from the tapes.That would be very different from what's being claimed. Different enough in myopinion, that if what I think is happening here is true, it constitutes at bestdeception and at worst outright fraud.
Quote:
I bet what's being used hereare 96/24 files made at some point from the master tapes. Which files? And madeby whom? Are these the same files used to cut lacquers for a truly horrible,dynamically squashed Exile On Mainstream box set issued a few years ago?If so, it doesn't matter if the cut is 1/2 speed, full speed, double time, 800xor whatever. It will still suck.
Until we get an Exile on Main Street cutfrom the tapes and without dynamic compression, we should not be supportingthis kind of project—even if it was truthfully, not deceptively marketed. Thatgoes for the entire series in my opinion.
Itis sad to see the great Abbey Road Studios name get muddied.
Endquote :

[Bigman80]

I'm so glad you posted this, I was considering a copy. Won't be buying it now! Thank you for sharing.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Stratmangler]

I'm very happy with my half speed mastered copy of Fire & Water.
There's no secret about the source being the recent digital transfer by Andy Pearce.
http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/new-half-speed-mastered-vinyl-series-launched-by-universal/

[WESTLOWER]

Rip off!!! Blimey Bit strong!!
I bought the John Martyn Solid Air
And thought it was fantastic!! Vastly improved on the original (although other(s) on AOS disagree)
I was very happy with the work they did...
The Eno records have also been given a great thumbs up from
People I know have purchased them.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I must admit to getting increasing more skeptical with respects to the heritage of ALL new vinyl. I now find myself buying increasing older vinyl pre 1965 if possible and I always try and seek out new vinyl re-pressed from master tapes or cut direct to disc if possible. I'm a jazz fan so this can be VERY expensive at times. :(

[WESTLOWER]

I must admit to getting increasing more skeptical with respects to the heritage of ALL new vinyl. I now find myself buying increasing older vinyl pre 1965 if possible and I always try and seek out new vinyl re-pressed from master tapes or cut direct to disc if possible. I'm a jazz fan so this can be VERY expensive at times. :(

I'm also a jazz fan, many older recordings can be bettered by modern pressings imho
The music matters and analogue production pressings (flipping expensive £50 +) actually for me improve many titles in the Prestige (used shite recycled wax by all accounts) and Blue Note catalogues .. you have to be very careful with new viny reissues, lots came from CD source and never went back to the tapes..and miss the mark completely.
Lots of poor pressings from dodgy companies who have cashed in on the copyright grey area. But I personally think the Abbey Road thing is a quality reissue program.

[Bksabath]

I'm very happy with my half speed mastered copy of Fire & Water.
There's no secret about the source being the recent digital transfer by Andy Pearce.
http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/new-half-speed-mastered-vinyl-series-launched-by-universal/

Good for you if you like it.
I did not and will be returning it
Others here will not buy a copy
Michael Framer review is now a bit more public

But do not think that this make me happy
What I would really like is that they did a proper job of it instead off ripping people off

[Bksabath]

Rip off!!! Blimey Bit strong!!

.

No do not thing so, Fraud as in Michael Framer piece would be more to the point

[Stratmangler]

What I would really like is that they did a proper job of it instead off ripping people off

A proper job?
What constitutes a proper job in your opinion?

And last, how are they ripping people off?

[Audio Al]

My copy of Fire and Water is fine :)

[mikeyb]

Did you clean it before playing, new LPs have a protective coating on them that might affect playback until cleaned.

[Haselsh1]

Did you clean it before playing, new LPs have a protective coating on them that might affect playback until cleaned.

Protective coating...? Since when...?

[Audio Al]

Think Mike may mean a releasing agent that can be sprayed into the press to stop the vinyl sticking

[Haselsh1]

Think Mike may mean a releasing agent that can be sprayed into the press to stop the vinyl sticking

OK

[mikeyb]

Think Mike may mean a releasing agent that can be sprayed into the press to stop the vinyl stickingThat's the one, is it not an anti mould agent too [emoji6]

I've seen it on some LPs that I've played and the needle is covered in it.

[montesquieu]

I'm very happy with my half speed mastered copy of Fire & Water.
There's no secret about the source being the recent digital transfer by Andy Pearce.
http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/new-half-speed-mastered-vinyl-series-launched-by-universal/

I bought this too (and the Solid Air reissue mentioned by Adam). Both sounded fine to me.

[Primalsea]

I can understand why you may be a bit peeved, you are buying withthe belief that you will have an album with optimal sound quality.

I am quite often surprised when I did out an older pressing thats nothing special, just something that has not been played much. It can be very obvious, even with LPs when the whole process has been done well on analogue all the way through.

I have an old copy of the Joshua Tree and it sounds great but has some ticks. I bought the heavyweight reissue but its just not the same.

I guess all you can do is not worry about it until you hear it and then make a decision.

[Bksabath]

A proper job would be one that do sound better or at least as good as the original, back to back listening show the flaws of the Abbey
And then there is the run off length that in the Abbey is 3 times as large
A given time track cut whit a given amount of dynamics take space reduce the dynamics and it take less space.

[forsell]

Did you clean it before playing, new LPs have a protective coating on them that might affect playback until cleaned.

All reissue records are mastered from digital files unless you buy BN -Jazz from Analogue Productions or Music Matters. In fact what you buy is only a CD pressed in vinyl. People want to get ripped off so the industry produces scams they crave...

"Fat pig priest
Sanctimonious smiles
He takes the money, you take the lies."

P.I.L. (Religion)

[montesquieu]

All reissue records are mastered from digital files unless you buy BN -Jazz from Analogue Productions or Music Matters. In fact what you buy is only a CD pressed in vinyl. People want to get ripped off so the industry produces scams they crave...

"Fat pig priest
Sanctimonious smiles
He takes the money, you take the lies."

P.I.L. (Religion)

That’s utter nonsense. There’s a VAST difference between a 24 bit digital studio master, which is then used to master an LP that will then be cut, and a collection of 16 bit 44.1 AIF CD files.

[Bksabath]

All reissue records are mastered from digital files unless you buy BN -Jazz from Analogue Productions or Music Matters. In fact what you buy is only a CD pressed in vinyl. People want to get ripped off so the industry produces scams they crave...


There is no doubt that the Analogue Production or Music Matters are good products
It does not give me any pleasure to say that the Abbey issue's are rip off as they state that they used original master tapes and quite same effort in to making the best product possible which is not the case
I was hoping to find decent prints off a more various genere
There is a company that cut Classical that is pretty good but a £300 a pop for a limited ,just a few hundred each issue, those are out of my reach.

Abbey could have also used an old mint A1 vinyl record and made a master from that and maybe made a better job of it.
Still it does not explain why the run off is so large.

[dantheman91]

I faulty press does not mean they RIP people off have you tried it on another turntable it could be your set up thats making poor use of the recording? I'm guessing the original master tapes were used otherwise why would they state this :scratch: master cuts are different could be a number of issues with this and not the company...and putting a marker on them is a bit unfair..

[struth]

The one ive got is a nice press. John Martyn

[Ali Tait]

Yes I’ve that one too and it’s very good.

[m10]

There's a question here about what to expect from new vinyl - especially reissues. Original stampers will be worn, if they have even been kept. The analogue master tapes may not be in such a good state - they may be too fragile to handle depending on the age of the recording. Using a digital master (not the mastered for CD version) is a very sensible compromise to everyone but the most ardent digiphobes.

I believe there is more to an LP than the master tape used. The skill and artistry of the cutting (mastering?) engineer in getting the signal into the grooves and the care taken in manufacture are the critical elements - much more so that whether the source is analogue or digital. The quality of the recent (Abbey Road mastered) Sgt. Pepper's is a case in point. This version doesn't exist in analogue as they created new multi-tracks in digital for the new stereo mix. This new digital master was cut at half-speed, and the end result is phenomenal. (Second LP should have had Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane on though!) Sweeping statements and accusations that Abbey Road are ripping people are unhelpful and untrue.

[montesquieu]

There's a question here about what to expect from new vinyl - especially reissues. Original stampers will be worn, if they have even been kept. The analogue master tapes may not be in such a good state - they may be too fragile to handle depending on the age of the recording. Using a digital master (not the mastered for CD version) is a very sensible compromise to everyone but the most ardent digiphobes.

I believe there is more to an LP than the master tape used. The skill and artistry of the cutting (mastering?) engineer in getting the signal into the grooves and the care taken in manufacture are the critical elements - much more so that whether the source is analogue or digital. The quality of the recent (Abbey Road mastered) Sgt. Pepper's is a case in point. This version doesn't exist in analogue as they created new multi-tracks in digital for the new stereo mix. This new digital master was cut at half-speed, and the end result is phenomenal. (Second LP should have had Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane on though!) Sweeping statements and accusations that Abbey Road are ripping people are unhelpful and untrue.

Well said.

[WESTLOWER]

There's a question here about what to expect from new vinyl - especially reissues. Original stampers will be worn, if they have even been kept. The analogue master tapes may not be in such a good state - they may be too fragile to handle depending on the age of the recording. Using a digital master (not the mastered for CD version) is a very sensible compromise to everyone but the most ardent digiphobes.

I believe there is more to an LP than the master tape used. The skill and artistry of the cutting (mastering?) engineer in getting the signal into the grooves and the care taken in manufacture are the critical elements - much more so that whether the source is analogue or digital. The quality of the recent (Abbey Road mastered) Sgt. Pepper's is a case in point. This version doesn't exist in analogue as they created new multi-tracks in digital for the new stereo mix. This new digital master was cut at half-speed, and the end result is phenomenal. (Second LP should have had Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane on though!) Sweeping statements and accusations that Abbey Road are ripping people are unhelpful and untrue.

+1 Malcolm.. with Bells on. There has been some ridiculous nonsense written and really out of order accusations on this particular thread.

[forsell]

There is no doubt that the Analogue Production or Music Matters are good products
It does not give me any pleasure to say that the Abbey issue's are rip off as they state that they used original master tapes and quite same effort in to making the best product possible which is not the case
I was hoping to find decent prints off a more various genere
There is a company that cut Classical that is pretty good but a £300 a pop for a limited ,just a few hundred each issue, those are out of my reach.

Abbey could have also used an old mint A1 vinyl record and made a master from that and maybe made a better job of it.
Still it does not explain why the run off is so large.

Sorry to say, but your statement is based on your EXPECTATIONS as a "customer". From the perspective of music industry the term: "From original master tape" means: digital backs up were made form a tape (which generation master tape by the way, 1.st, 2.nd...? nobody knows) and then those digital files used for mastering purposes.

Do you remember the early days of CD, when "AAD" and "ADD" -codes were printed on to show the manufacturing process...? For example: "AAD": 1st "A": analogue source (tape) 2nd "A": analogue mastering equipment throughout 3rd "D": digital storage medium (CD)

As of modern reissues we speak of "ADDA"-system: 1st "A": analogue source (tape) 2nd "D": digital file (back up) made from an analogue source,, so the source for mastering is pure digital 3rd "D": digital mastering studio equipment used 4 th "A": anlalogue storage medium (vinyl)

That's why all this highly priced reissue rubbish out there is nothing but scam only...

[Macca]

That’s utter nonsense. There’s a VAST difference between a 24 bit digital studio master, which is then used to master an LP that will then be cut, and a collection of 16 bit 44.1 AIF CD files.

Actually there isn't. The only thing it will have is greater dynamic range and frequencies over 22 KHz that you can't hear. And the extra dynamic range doesn't matter since you are going to lose it in the pressing for vinyl anyway. A lot of digital studio masters are 18/48 at best since that was state of the art 20 years ago. In the case of an analogue master it will not have the frequency response or dynamic range of 16/44,1 because even 3.5 inch tape at 15 ips is not that good. So whether you press your vinyl from the analogue master or a digital copy of it, providing its resolution is over about 14/44.1 it will make no difference to end product.

Of all the things that can make a recording on a vinyl LP sound good I can't think of anything that makes less difference.

[montesquieu]

Actually there isn't. The only thing it will have is greater dynamic range and frequencies over 22 KHz that you can't hear. And the extra dynamic range doesn't matter since you are going to lose it in the pressing for vinyl anyway. A lot of digital studio masters are 18/48 at best since that was state of the art 20 years ago. In the case of an analogue master it will not have the frequency response or dynamic range of 16/44,1 because even 3.5 inch tape at 15 ips is not that good. So whether you master your vinyl from the analogue master or a digital copy of it, providing its resolution is over about 14/44.1 it will make no difference to end product.

Of all the things that can make a recording on a vinyl LP sound good I can't think of anything that makes less difference.


**Some** of it will be thrown away but for sure you want it all available for mastering of the LP.

It's not simply about feeding a CD to a cutting lathe as was being claimed.

[Macca]

**Some** of it will be thrown away but for sure you want it all available for mastering of the LP.

It's not simply about feeding a CD to a cutting lathe as was being claimed.

I don't think that was literally what was being suggested, or maybe it was. I doubt they do that often but I think some recordings did/do use the same mastering for both vinyl and digital, simply because doing a special master for vinyl will cost extra.

I think in this specific case it might well be as someone up thread suggested, they have used an original master tape as they promise - and it was knackered. That doesn't explain the large run out compared to the original though. I'd guess they have just pressed it with the grooves a lot closer together because that is how they had it set up already. Usually the only reason you do this is to get loads of tracks onto the LP but it will compromise dynamic range and add noise.

[montesquieu]

I don't think that was literally what was being suggested, or maybe it was. I doubt they do that often but I think some recordings did/do use the same mastering for both vinyl and digital, simply because doing a special master for vinyl will cost extra.

I think in this specific case it might well be as someone up thread suggested, they have used an original master tape as they promise - and it was knackered. That doesn't explain the large run out compared to the original though. I'd guess they have just pressed it with the grooves a lot closer together because that is how they had it set up already. Usually the only reason you do this is to get loads of tracks onto the LP but it will compromise dynamic range and add noise.

If you count up the track lengths you get a whisker over 35 minutes, say 18 minutes a side, and only three tracks on the side that everybody thrashes to death (side 2).

That's pretty short ...

[forsell]

It's not simply about feeding a CD to a cutting lathe as was being claimed.

Not literally... the point is that beyond all that technical speech there is no difference in terms of sound quality -and in the end only this counts- between an Universal/Blue Note reissue that I can buy in a record store in Berlin for Eur 28 -licensed from Blue Note/Spain- where digital files were made from spanish x-generation BN tape copy and then fed into full digital Universal mastering equipment -and "Rudy van Gelder" Blue Note CD-reissue thrown at me everywhere for 6-8 Euro played through a decent 16 bit D/A converter...

The difference between us is obviously the fact, that you like doing your "maths in bits and bytes", an I actually DO listen to all these things...

[Macca]

If you count up the track lengths you get a whisker over 35 minutes, say 18 minutes a side, and only three tracks on the side that everybody thrashes to death (side 2).

That's pretty short ...

Not massively short. I think after about 20 minutes a side you are getting into issues. You have to start reducing bass and dynamic range to get it all on. But 18 minutes should be in the green zone, providing you use the whole LP, which it seems they didn't in this case.

[julesd68]

I bought Simple Minds 'New Gold Dream' vinyl in the Abbey Road half-speed mastered series.

It's one of the very few digitally sourced lps I have but I have to say it sounds fantastic. It was obviously produced with a lot of care and attention to the final product IMO.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/the-rolling-stones-cream-the-police-albums-abbey-road-vinyl-half-speed-a6870646.html

[montesquieu]

Not literally... the point is that beyond all that technical speech there is no difference in terms of sound quality -and in the end only this counts- between an Universal/Blue Note reissue that I can buy in a record store in Berlin for Eur 28 -licensed from Blue Note/Spain- where digital files were made from spanish x-generation BN tape copy and then fed into full digital Universal mastering equipment -and "Rudy van Gelder" Blue Note CD-reissue thrown at me everywhere for 6-8 Euro played through a decent 16 bit D/A converter...

The difference between us is obviously the fact, that you like doing your "maths in bits and bytes", an I actually DO listen to all these things...

You are here for 18 posts and you start throwing personal insults around?

[Macca]

Yes knock that off. We all listen to these things, ridiculous to state otherwise.

[Bksabath]

I faulty press does not mean they RIP people off have you tried it on another turntable it could be your set up thats making poor use of the recording? I'm guessing the original master tapes were used otherwise why would they state this :scratch: master cuts are different could be a number of issues with this and not the company...and putting a marker on them is a bit unfair..
I have tried the 40 + year old original on the same turntable and the old one sound much better

[Bksabath]

[QUOTE=forsell;923255]Sorry to say, but your statement is based on your EXPECTATIONS as a "customer".
QUOTE]

Caused by over the top advertising statement such us "we have used the original masters" and made every effort to produce the best possible product caused the EXPECTATIONS.

[Bksabath]

That doesn't explain the large run out compared to the original though. I'd guess they have just pressed it with the grooves a lot closer together because that is how they had it set up already. Usually the only reason you do this is to get loads of tracks onto the LP but it will compromise dynamic range and add noise.

Tank you 100% agree whit this as track length is the same what is been left out is dinamics

[Bksabath]

I bought Simple Minds 'New Gold Dream' vinyl in the Abbey Road half-speed mastered series.

It's one of the very few digitally sourced lps I have but I have to say it sounds fantastic. It was obviously produced with a lot of care and attention to the final product IMO.


I am very happy for you and hope you enjoy that I wish I could I really really do.

And the Simple Mind was first issued on ?
1982 so maybe it is worth to do a back to back whit the original?

Just another thing why you keep quoting the Independent and not the Analogue Planet article?

[Macca]

Here is the engineer talking about it on the Abbey Road site:

https://shop.abbeyroad.com/Vinyl/*/Fire-And-Water/4ZB700000KW

4.What was the source for this record?

Digital transfers from the original ¼” tapes, recently prepared by Free remastering engineer Andy Pearce. This album was cut from a high-resolution digital transfer from the best known analogue tape in existence. Only minimal sympathetic equalisation was applied to the transfer to keep everything as pure as possible. Also, as this was an analogue, vinyl only high quality release, I did not apply any digital limiting. This is added to almost all digital releases to make them appear to be loud and is responsible for “the loudness war” and in almost every case is anything but natural and pure sounding.

My bold.

I get the impression he does know what he is doing, I can only assume the 'best known analogue tape in existence' was not as good as the one your original pressing was made from, possibly because it is 40 years older?

[Bksabath]

This is quite possible.
IMO a competent engineer would have used all the space available to make the best possible print. No?

I wonder if the 180g 2016 Italian reissue whit no catalogue number or the Island Records (https://www.discogs.com/label/8377-Island-Records) ‎– 473 187-5 re issue dated 2017 sound any better
Just got to get one now :doh:

[Bksabath]

To late just ordered the 180g Italian for 15 euros

[Macca]

Be interesting to see if you can find one that is better than your original pressing. I'm going to guess you won't.

[Bksabath]

There are quite a few on Discogs.
https://www.discogs.com/Free-Fire-And-Water/master/88608
even same Abbeys priced over £25 +pp:lol:

A Japan issue SFX-7209 would be nice maybe
Considering that my original pressing is quite tired only a 5U inscribed on it and whit the original hand written (please say WOW) price sticker from the second hand shop £4.50 I guess I will:D.
Snag is I only shop in 2 places in Liverpool but I am sure I find one in Chester next time I got there

[forsell]

There are quite a few on Discogs.
https://www.discogs.com/Free-Fire-And-Water/master/88608
even same Abbeys priced over £25 +pp:lol:

A Japan issue SFX-7209 would be nice maybe
Considering that my original pressing is quite tired only a 5U inscribed on it and whit the original hand written (please say WOW) price sticker from the second hand shop £4.50 I guess I will:D.
Snag is I only shop in 2 places in Liverpool but I am sure I find one in Chester next time I got there

Obviously I am missing your point. You have got an original pressing of a record and are going to "better" it with an reissue...? To me it is kind of a discussion like: I have got an original E-type in my garage but now trying to replace it with a modern replica car to "better" an original E-type...

[Bksabath]

Sorry the point is that my ILPS9120 is tired, if you like did same serious millage (2 times to the Moon and back) so I was looking for a replacement.
There are same honest craftsmen out there that can do pretty good things when re-cutting records
One Example I can give you is as I got them here The Chieftains Bonaparte Retreat The first issue Ceirnini CC20 and the Island Issue that followed (I gave that copy to my Niece)sound much the same and are much worst than The Shanachie 79026 which was printed a few years later.

I am sure that where you live (Berlin?) there are many more and better second hand record shops than here in Liverpool and that You can find either and do a back to back test.
In this case the replica (Shanakie) is better than the Original (Ceirnini) or the mass market model (Island)
BTW no Fancy A4 certificates came whit the Shanakie ;)

[Audio Al]

I bought Simple Minds 'New Gold Dream' vinyl in the Abbey Road half-speed mastered series.

It's one of the very few digitally sourced lps I have but I have to say it sounds fantastic. It was obviously produced with a lot of care and attention to the final product IMO.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/the-rolling-stones-cream-the-police-albums-abbey-road-vinyl-half-speed-a6870646.html

I have it also , and agree it good qulity :)

[Audio Al]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjjgPVipuXc&t=363s

The man himself and very honest :)

[WESTLOWER]

Be interesting to see if you can find one that is better than your original pressing. I'm going to guess you won't.

My Abbey Rd 'Solid Air' is better than the my EX condition original..!

[WESTLOWER]

Obviously I am missing your point. You have got an original pressing of a record and are going to "better" it with an reissue...? To me it is kind of a discussion like: I have got an original E-type in my garage but now trying to replace it with a modern replica car to "better" an original E-type...

That's an awful comparison! We are talking about sound quality, not historical artifacts...
So regarding your ridiculous comparison above, yes original records imho can be 'bettered' by new reissues!
I have plenty of new reissues that have seriously brought to life the music in comparison to EX condition original pressings.
Obviously for historical, collecting nonsense, I would prefer if the original pressings were better than the modern reissues,
but in certain cases they simply were inferior, even if the legendary Rudy Van Gelder was at the controls of the original!

[sq225917]

That's the one, is it not an anti mould agent too [emoji6]

I've seen it on some LPs that I've played and the needle is covered in it.

There's nothing sprayed into the moulds, they are bone dry. Any liquid would expand under the temp causing the paper label to 'explode'

[Bksabath]

There's nothing sprayed into the moulds, they are bone dry. Any liquid would expand under the temp causing the paper label to 'explode'
Tanks Simon I was not sure on what to say this so I did not comment
I know FO about plastics and moulds (apart that I work in a plastic recycling factory and was working in another one producing master batch a while before :D )

Another thing a few commented on the Solid Air as being good this give me great pleasure and may be getting one myself
any chance If any one has the original and the Abbey to compare the size of the run off please
I really hope that they had better source masters than the one used for Fire and water.
There is no rush as I have already blown my budget for records this Crimbo 16 Lp of which 2 from MF Sound Lab

[Floyddroid]

2199621997The Abbey Road Studios RIP OFF
I have bought a copy of Free Fire and water and compared tothe original Island ILPS9120 that it was going to replace I have found it to beCompressed lifeless dull and distorted
The hi frequencies that the super duper A4 certificate somuch brag about is not there
And the hi quality of that piece of paper whit the nice goldstamp preclude any more practical use for it.
The record run off is about 3 times larger than in theoriginal and this is a clear sign of poor mastering.
This is what Michael Fremerhave to say about the Rolling Stone Issue
https://www.analogplanet.com/content/new-exile-main-street-%C2%A0using-original-analog-master-tape-doubtful
Quote :
First, it's obvious that an advertising copy writerhas gotten his hands on a list of audiophile vernacular and he (or she) issprinkling it liberally and thoughtlessly.
The claim made here is that the original master tapes have been used to producethese half speed mastered cuts. Is that true? I very much doubt it. Ithink what's being used are digital files sourced at some point from the tapes.That would be very different from what's being claimed. Different enough in myopinion, that if what I think is happening here is true, it constitutes at bestdeception and at worst outright fraud.
Quote:
I bet what's being used hereare 96/24 files made at some point from the master tapes. Which files? And madeby whom? Are these the same files used to cut lacquers for a truly horrible,dynamically squashed Exile On Mainstream box set issued a few years ago?If so, it doesn't matter if the cut is 1/2 speed, full speed, double time, 800xor whatever. It will still suck.
Until we get an Exile on Main Street cutfrom the tapes and without dynamic compression, we should not be supportingthis kind of project—even if it was truthfully, not deceptively marketed. Thatgoes for the entire series in my opinion.
Itis sad to see the great Abbey Road Studios name get muddied.
Endquote :


I think one has to be very careful and selective with some reissues especially on vinyl. I bought a newly remastered version of E.L.P Brain Salad Surgery a few years back to replace my well travelled original. I encountered all the flaws that you have and more. The original is so much better. It made the twenty quid reissue sound like the tracks had been transferred to vinyl from low grade Mp3's. I am also disappointed with recent box set of Steve Hackett's early albums. Very dull and lifeless though on my initial playing of the albums thought they were really good. Perhaps I was a little overwelmed to hear the albums in such good condition. There is without doubt some corporate racketeering going on. Far too many reissues are not taken from their original source for a host of reasons they should therefore be resigned to analogue history and a good record cleaning machine sort to spruce up original copies. Depending on condition of course.

[Bksabath]

I think one has to be very careful and selective with some reissues especially on vinyl. I bought a newly remastered version of E.L.P Brain Salad Surgery a few years back to replace my well travelled original. I encountered all the flaws that you have and more. The original is so much better. It made the twenty quid reissue sound like the tracks had been transferred to vinyl from low grade Mp3's. I am also disappointed with recent box set of Steve Hackett's early albums. Very dull and lifeless though on my initial playing of the albums thought they were really good. Perhaps I was a little overwelmed to hear the albums in such good condition. There is without doubt some corporate racketeering going on. Far too many reissues are not taken from their original source for a host of reasons they should therefore be resigned to analogue history and a good record cleaning machine sort to spruce up original copies. Depending on condition of course.

So you agree? that maybe there is same corporate racketeering going on?
What really pisses me off is the nice A4 certificate to tell you...original masters and that is not good as toilet paper as the quality of it is really top notch
A bit like a supermarket re-wrapping same poor quality food in really posh paper and then lie about the ingredients used
The supermarket can not do that and go away whit it but you say "one have to be very careful..."
Abbey road certainly has the machine know how and artisans to do a good job but choses to sell poor stuff on a nice wrap fooling the ones that do not know better
and no one can make them stop this bullshitting.

This saddens me as I would rather pay even more for a decent copy, if only the people that can decide to be honest and do a proper job whit the pride it was done 30 40 years ago.

There are so many things that can be done whit vinyl, See same prints from Shanachie from pretty bad masters to cite one of the less known

And off topic as is not half speed mastered https://www.discogs.com/sell/item/598270580 try this for how good vinyl can sound

As you mention a good record machine may be the answer Any one have an ultrasonic cleaning machine here ?

[eldarvanyar]

So you agree? that maybe there is same corporate racketeering going on?
What really pisses me off is the nice A4 certificate to tell you...original masters and that is not good as toilet paper as the quality of it is really top notch
A bit like a supermarket re-wrapping same poor quality food in really posh paper and then lie about the ingredients used
The supermarket can not do that and go away whit it but you say "one have to be very careful..."
Abbey road certainly has the machine know how and artisans to do a good job but choses to sell poor stuff on a nice wrap fooling the ones that do not know better
and no one can make them stop this bullshitting.

This saddens me as I would rather pay even more for a decent copy, if only the people that can decide to be honest and do a proper job whit the pride it was done 30 40 years ago.

There are so many things that can be done whit vinyl, See same prints from Shanachie from pretty bad masters to cite one of the less known

And off topic as is not half speed mastered https://www.discogs.com/sell/item/598270580 try this for how good vinyl can sound

As you mention a good record machine may be the answer Any one have an ultrasonic cleaning machine here ?

I wonder if it is worth reporting to trading standards. They cannot sell or promote something which is untrue. This week Samsung were found guilty of false advertising for one of their phones. Tom Dailey dived into a pool making it look as though it was fully waterproof and it wasn’t.
I am really keen to build up my record collection as mine are predominantly from the 80s and very early 90s when pressings were pretty rubbish. A lot of it was due to the mix being for the radio broadcast with limited bandwidth and people listening on transistor radios. The quality of the vinyl was junk as well.
I always used to play once and record on to tape to save wear on the LP in my teens.
I listened to one of my ULTRAVOX Rage in Eden original LPs, that had only been played a few times. I recently played it on a friends system and it sounded terrible. I was saddened and embarrassed by how bad it was. My CD sounded so much better. I really want to get back to analogue as I am tired of the fatigue from listening to CDs.

What do we do if we buy 180gm reissue LPs that are worse than the crappy originals,because they are using digital masters. Bearing in mind there was a big move to dd recording, dd mastering, dd pressings if I remember correctly.

[Bksabath]

I really liked the first Ultravox at the time I still have same of the original... and guilty as charged as I was in broadcasting ( FM ) in the 80's

I have been buying quite a few records from Discogos there are quite a few very god MOFI prints out there