RB330 / Planar 3 (2016) upgrades?

[vinylist]

Hi all

I like my Planar 3 a lot, but thinking of exploring some tinkering...without throwing silly money at it. I’ve already got the white belt on it, and running a TT-PSU.

Has anyone here any experience/thoughts on counterweight upgrades for the RB330 - is the Origin Live arm mod likely to be worth a look?

And how about subplatters? Going the Groovetracer route seems a bit pricey, any thoughts on the one Fidelity (Ben Lamb) does?

Thanks!

[paulf-2007]

Hi all

I like my Planar 3 a lot, but thinking of exploring some tinkering...without throwing silly money at it. I’ve already got the white belt on it, and running a TT-PSU.

Has anyone here any experience/thoughts on counterweight upgrades for the RB330 - is the Origin Live arm mod likely to be worth a look?

And how about subplatters? Going the Groovetracer route seems a bit pricey, any thoughts on the one Fidelity (Ben Lamb) does?

Thanks!add up all the possible upgrades and compare that against a turntable you may prefer. I had a Garrard 401 and built a lenco ptp, ok I enjoyed the build but to get a lenco to sound as good as a 401 it cost more than my 401. Besides that the 401 speed is adjustable as it warms up and the lenco isn't so I had to switch it on an hour before I could use it. Ok not the same situation as yours but you get the idea. It's easy to throw money at something and not know what the result will be.

[farflungstar]

add up all the possible upgrades and compare that against a turntable you may prefer. I had a Garrard 401 and built a lenco ptp, ok I enjoyed the build but to get a lenco to sound as good as a 401 it cost more than my 401. Besides that the 401 speed is adjustable as it warms up and the lenco isn't so I had to switch it on an hour before I could use it. Ok not the same situation as yours but you get the idea. It's easy to throw money at something and not know what the result will be.Today agree. Look at where you want to be and try to get there without spending time and money on upgrading. Leapfrog the process if you can.

[steve-z]

Hi, I also have a 2016 Planar 3 and thought I’d jump in with a few things I’ve done to mine. Firstly I have one of Ben Lambs machined alloy subplatter upgrades, I mainly bought it due the very reasonable price compared to some of the other options available, but mainly to get a longer spindle so I could use my Michell record clamp, the engineering quality and finish is first rate, it looks great and it in my case gave me an unexpected improvement, namely it made the speed more accurate, with the original SP the speed measured 33.37 RPM with the alloy SP it measured 33.34 RPM. From what I’ve read online the addition of the white belt tends to up the speed slightly and is one reason why I’ve stayed with the standard belt. I’m also using the Origin Live Upgrade mat in place of the std wool mat, main reason being that I’m using a Nagaoka MP110 cartridge which is just over 3mms taller than Regas cartridges, the OL mat being only 1mm thick gets the arm pretty well level in conjunction with a 2mm spacer under the armbase. The best thing you can do to improve the sound though is to buy the latest lightweight Rega dedicated wall mount as I have.
A friend of mine has experienced the OL upgrades on the Rega arm, according to him it does change the sound but in his estimation not for the better, it makes the sound artificially livelier and degrades the arms inherent neutrality, so not really recommended according to him and it’s not a cheap mod either.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4264/35065092871_f676b25b2b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/VqzLsK)Upgraded subplatter (https://flic.kr/p/VqzLsK) by [/url]
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4229/34350886994_6df24772f7_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139629765@N06/)Finally finished (https://flic.kr/p/UktgWj) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/139629765@N06/],

[vinylist]

Hi Steve - thanks - all very interesting to hear about and looks a very nice setup. Other than the speed difference, did you notice any changes in sound with the new subplatter?

[steve-z]

Hi Steve - thanks - all very interesting to hear about and looks a very nice setup. Other than the speed difference, did you notice any changes in sound with the new subplatter?

The change to the sound with the subplatter was extremely slight but better, pitch stability seemed very slightly better, perhaps due to the flywheel effect of the heavier metal SP, just that little better purity of piano notes, but I’m talking tiny margins here, anything is a bonus really as I mainly bought it so I could use the Michell plus it looks a lot cooler than plastic. As I said the best investment is the wall mount.


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[vinylist]

Thanks Steve - interesting.

[hifi_dave]

I've seen, heard, put right, many after market mods to Rega turntables and arms and I would recommend you leave it as it is. Most of these mods make no difference at all, some are poorly made but none of them, to my mind are worth bothering with.

Personally, I would suggest the Neo power supply and White Belt make a far larger improvement than any other tweaks. However, you have already got these upgrades, so the next step would be to put the money saved towards a P6, where you will hear the improvement.

[DSJR]

Ideally, if you want to upgrade a Planar 3, you buy a Planar 6... One comment Steve Z has made to me privately is that the new hub has improved speed accuracy and the longer spindle aids use of the Michell clamp, which personally I can't be faffed with but that's me :) Foo balls in the main bearing can drastically shorten the life of the spindle though, so anyone reading this should keep the bearing sleeve and ball original as this isn't the main cause of noise in the background.

[vinylist]

Thanks - very clear. Would be interested whether others have different views - seems a good steer to just enjoy the deck as is. Sounds similarly like it's probably not worth the trouble of playing with different counterweights on the rb330?

[hifi_dave]

I've tried six different c/weights (IIRC) and none of them improved on the standard offering. Three of those were appallingly poorly turned and were an eyesore.

[Primalsea]

A very cheap and easy thing you coulld try...

Buy a car sponge and cut a long square section about 5mm x 5mm x 120mm. VERY GENTLY push it down inside the armtube with something like a wooden kabab stick.

Its just a nice cheap way of dampening the arm tube.

[DSJR]

The RB300 used to come with a tungsten counterweight in its early days and I believe the heavier version is still available - at a price ;( Many cartridges are massy things and one of these heavier weights used to help no end I remember...

[hifi_dave]

A very cheap and easy thing you coulld try...

Buy a car sponge and cut a long square section about 5mm x 5mm x 120mm. VERY GENTLY push it down inside the armtube with something like a wooden kabab stick.

Its just a nice cheap way of dampening the arm tube.

Not possible. There is a bung in the end of the tube to prevent the internal wires from pulling out and adds a bit of damping to the tube.

[vinylist]

Thanks all.

[Svend N]

Hi Rick,
If you do end up installing any mods or upgrades to your Planar 3, please do post back here with what you did and how they worked out. I am interested in this, as I recently bought an original Planar 3 to use in our second system, and have been researching possible mods for the old thing. Much of what is out there is made to sound very tempting, with marketing jargon like "Stunning improvement!", "Night and day difference!", "Elevates to the next level!". It seems that some users who have bought these, and spent near the equivalent of a whole new deck, naturally report that improvements were clearly audible and worth every nickel, whereas others with more critical ears are not so keen.

That said, it's hard to sort out fact from fantasy, but what I have gleaned from all my reading is that turntable isolation is key with these Regas (i.e. wall shelf, solid platform, sand box, etc.). Other than that, given that you have a new model with quiet motor and PSU, I would guess that the remaining aftermarket mods would have little to no effect on your deck. My old one is different, and I am looking into making the motor quieter, and maybe a better belt...but that's about it.

Platter mats do make an audible difference on some decks, of that I am certain, having tried a few on my Heybrook. But what effect the different mats would have on a Rega P3 platter I can't say. Worth experimenting with, and some are very inexpensive DIY options (cork, leather), some more costly (Funk Achromat, etc.). I'm liking cork on my Heybrook, but that's an aluminum platter. Inexpensive little upgrade, this, but well worth doing.

Your P3, and mine too, would undoubtedly get FAR greater benefit from spending money on a good cartridge (properly set up!) and phono stage. Perhaps I missed it, but what cartridge do you have? And what phono stage? What about the rest of your system? Is it revealing enough that you would actually hear subtle changes?

Interesting subject, and I look forward to hearing how you proceed, if at all.

Cheers,
Svend

[hifi_dave]

Svend, with your older 3, a Rega motor upgrade kit, Rega power supply and a white belt will improve the performance but forget the other 'tweaky' bits which won't make a scrap of difference and could even make it worse.

[Svend N]

Hi Dave,

Agreed on the tweaky bits. After doing a LOT of reading on this subject, I came to the conclusion that almost all the tweaks didn't necessarily "improve" the sound...just made it different. Enough reasonable, sensible voices out there said the same and that convinced me to save my money and spend it on a good cartridge. The motor on the old P3 is another thing, and I've not decided on that as yet. Michael Lim makes a below-board motor mount (US$100) that separates the motor from the plinth, and since I will be building a solid support for the deck anyway upon which the motor can comfortably sit, this seems like a reasonable solution. I have checked out pricing for the Rega motor upgrade and PSU -- quite costly here, as is almost everything from the UK these days, for some reason (e.g. Goldring cartridges are crazy-expensive here...C$800 for a 1042?! No thanks...). But I digress.... You are quite right, the motor needs attention -- I will check further into the Lim mount, and if that doesn't suit, then at least the Rega motor (sans PSU) would be the logical solution.

Thanks for the insight.

Best,
Svend

[hifi_dave]

A Rega motor upgrade kit is £108 without VAT here and I would suggest that is your best option as there are no issues with movement between motor and platter hub.

[Svend N]

Thanks Dave...sending PM now...

PS -- the kit costs C$300 here (~170GBP)

[Tim]

I came to the conclusion that almost all the tweaks didn't necessarily "improve" the sound...just made it different.
Exactly, but if you have spent hundreds achieving that 'improved' sound you could argue that some people will convince themselves different = better.

Research will tell you 40% of the population are very susceptible to marketing and suggestion, so it's a tweakers, sales and marketing paradise. Knowing when to apply the brakes is key.

I concur with a lot of the advice given here and can say from personal experience David from Radlett Audio knows his onions ;)

[forsell]

Svend, with your older 3, a Rega motor upgrade kit, Rega power supply and a white belt will improve the performance but forget the other 'tweaky' bits which won't make a scrap of difference and could even make it worse.

Do I assume rightly that by a lucky coincidence YOU sell a Rega motor upgrade kit that improve the performance but "other 'tweaky' bits won't make a scrap of difference and could even make it worse."..?

[hifi_dave]

Do I assume rightly that by a lucky coincidence YOU sell a Rega motor upgrade kit that improve the performance but "other 'tweaky' bits won't make a scrap of difference and could even make it worse."..?

Thank you for the sarcasm.

I do fit the Rega motor upgrade kit, which does improve the performance for very good reasons. It's very reasonably priced and does a good job.

I don't agree with 3rd party tweaky counterweights, sub platters and the like. I have used and removed several of these because they didn't improve on the stock item and some made things worse with their poor engineering. On Saturday, I did demonstrate a Rega standard belt against a 3rd party belt, which didn't sound as good for similar money.

Rega ain't daft - they do, actually, know what they are doing.

[vinylist]

Hi Svend - good points. My cart's a Hana EH, into a Slee Era Gold / Mastersound Dueventi / Shahinian SEs. I like how it all sounds - but if anything the Planar 3's a weak link relative to the rest of my system (my current amp & speakers came along after the TT). As you say, the marketing on some of the aftermarket upgrades promises a lot...

Interesting too re mats. Is the consensus that the stock wool mat is best match with Rega's glass platter?



Hi Rick,
If you do end up installing any mods or upgrades to your Planar 3, please do post back here with what you did and how they worked out. I am interested in this, as I recently bought an original Planar 3 to use in our second system, and have been researching possible mods for the old thing. Much of what is out there is made to sound very tempting, with marketing jargon like "Stunning improvement!", "Night and day difference!", "Elevates to the next level!". It seems that some users who have bought these, and spent near the equivalent of a whole new deck, naturally report that improvements were clearly audible and worth every nickel, whereas others with more critical ears are not so keen.

That said, it's hard to sort out fact from fantasy, but what I have gleaned from all my reading is that turntable isolation is key with these Regas (i.e. wall shelf, solid platform, sand box, etc.). Other than that, given that you have a new model with quiet motor and PSU, I would guess that the remaining aftermarket mods would have little to no effect on your deck. My old one is different, and I am looking into making the motor quieter, and maybe a better belt...but that's about it.

Platter mats do make an audible difference on some decks, of that I am certain, having tried a few on my Heybrook. But what effect the different mats would have on a Rega P3 platter I can't say. Worth experimenting with, and some are very inexpensive DIY options (cork, leather), some more costly (Funk Achromat, etc.). I'm liking cork on my Heybrook, but that's an aluminum platter. Inexpensive little upgrade, this, but well worth doing.

Your P3, and mine too, would undoubtedly get FAR greater benefit from spending money on a good cartridge (properly set up!) and phono stage. Perhaps I missed it, but what cartridge do you have? And what phono stage? What about the rest of your system? Is it revealing enough that you would actually hear subtle changes?

Interesting subject, and I look forward to hearing how you proceed, if at all.

Cheers,
Svend

[Svend N]

Rick, I'm not sure about mats on a Rega glass platter. I'm sure others with more experience with these decks will advise. I have used different mats on aluminum platters, and they do have an effect...again, not necessarily all for the better. Cork seems to work well on aluminum in terms of imaging and bass definition; but felt mats have a more open airy sound. I intend to try out various mats with my Planar 3 (also glass platter) once I get it set up and running.

You have a very good cartridge and electronics -- the Hanas are supposed to be excellent. Just a suggestion, to second what others have recommended, good isolation seems to be key to these unsuspended, low mass decks. A wall shelf or isolation platform of some kind would likely do wonders for your sound quality. I can say that on my (suspended) Heybrook, even the simple addition of Michell Tenderfeet made an improvement -- everything tightened up a bit, clarity improved. I aim to take this further and put the deck on a properly isolated heavy platform of some kind. There are lots of ideas , DIY and ready-made, for Rega isolation out there on the web.

Good luck, and post back with what you end up doing.

Cheers,
Svend

[vinylist]

Thanks Svend & others for the great tips on isolation. It prompted a bit of playing. Looking into acrylic platforms etc, I remembered i’d a) a set of Ceraballs (picked up cheap secondhand to try out, but not really put to good use) and b) a TT-sized slab of composite (corian) kitchen worktop - the sink cutout. Corian on top of ceraballs sounds (and looks) pretty good - everything tightened up a little, punchier bass.

I’ve another worktop cutout - & might try (inspired by srm’s silent stage) doubling up with some sorbothane pads between.

[Svend N]

Thanks Svend & others for the great tips on isolation. It prompted a bit of playing. Looking into acrylic platforms etc, I remembered i’d a) a set of Ceraballs (picked up cheap secondhand to try out, but not really put to good use) and b) a TT-sized slab of composite (corian) kitchen worktop - the sink cutout. Corian on top of ceraballs sounds (and looks) pretty good - everything tightened up a little, punchier bass.

I’ve another worktop cutout - & might try (inspired by srm’s silent stage) doubling up with some sorbothane pads between.

As far as I know, the SRM slient base design has the motor separated from the plinth and mounted to the lower base. I could be mistaken, but I seem to recall that's how it works. Good idea actually, but probably most beneficial for an older Rega like mine that has the AC motor mounted on rubber bands. I think the benefit of separating the motor from your new P3, with its quiet 24V motor and PSU, might be questionable. Still, a solid sub-base is a good idea, and there are different ways to support something like that -- Vibrapods, cones, ceraballs like yours, etc... I plan to build a sandbox for mine, as it seems to get positive comments from users.

This might help:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/vibra_iso_pt2_e.html

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/sandblaster_e.html


Best,
Svend

[hifi_dave]

I am independent with a reputation built up over 40 years and so can stock, pretty well anything I choose and Rega is one of those brands. I am not forced to sell any products and I am very picky.

I have seen, used and removed several after market counterweights, which did nothing to the sound and were very poorly made. I still have them in a box somewhere amongst the accumulated clutter. I don't put the Michell Tecnoweight in that camp as they are beautifully made and well thought out.

[hifi_dave]

What happened to the post I was replying to above ? It was accusing me of bias and I was replying to that.

[walpurgis]

Dave. As you can see, the contentious posts were removed. Therefore, your response had no context. I edited accordingly. Thought you'd be happy.

[hifi_dave]

Okey, dokey and thank you.

[vinylist]

Thanks Dave for the insight. Out of interest, would you consider the Tecnoweight an upgrade to a stock RB330, or more generally just a great option to go for if in need of a new CW?


I am independent with a reputation built up over 40 years and so can stock, pretty well anything I choose and Rega is one of those brands. I am not forced to sell any products and I am very picky.

I have seen, used and removed several after market counterweights, which did nothing to the sound and were very poorly made. I still have them in a box somewhere amongst the accumulated clutter. I don't put the Michell Tecnoweight in that camp as they are beautifully made and well thought out.

[hifi_dave]

It's an interesting looking gizmo but I've not found it adds anything to the performance and it is fiddly to set up in comparison with the bog standard Rega weight and dial. Don't get me wrong, I sell a lot of Michell Tecnoarms, whcih come with this weight as standard and they are excellent and good value.

[vinylist]

Thanks!


It's an interesting looking gizmo but I've not found it adds anything to the performance and it is fiddly to set up in comparison with the bog standard Rega weight and dial. Don't get me wrong, I sell a lot of Michell Tecnoarms, whcih come with this weight as standard and they are excellent and good value.