View Full Version : Satch-Max DAC (TDA1541-based)
Hi Guys,
I'd quite like to listen to one of these for a friend and wondered if anyone here had built one, bought one ready-assembled, or has heard one and is quite familiar with how it sounds?
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/node/409
Your thoughts would be appreciated! :)
Marco.
Rare Bird
19-02-2010, 19:43
Looks good how much Marco?
That's a lot of money for a DAC these days........ Someone's laughing all the way to the ba nk on this one IMO.....
The various options are here, dude:
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/catalog/28
Marco.
I thought I saw these - but £500 ($800) for the kit with compulsory valve output stage???
It would however be interesting to compare this with a Caiman. perhaps Stan could consider a deluxe DAC with boutique updates and a decent valve output stage.....
Granted it's not cheap, Dave, but it's got some nice bits in it.... I just need to find someone who knows more about it :)
Marco.
Looks to be the same dac module as Duncans , much cheaper than the Satch
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Upsampling-24bit-192-DAC-KIT-TOROID-TRAN-USB-CS4398_W0QQitemZ230440537517QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a7538dad
Just need the valve output stage, could probably even use one of the valve modules from Diyhifisupply
Dave Hewitt
22-02-2010, 18:53
Hi
The satch dac is a tda 1541a chip.
Cheers Dave.
I know its TDA1541A but Marco has heard a dac based on the one in the ebay link and he said it was one of the best dacs he's heard, seemed to make more sense in trying something you've heard before and know performs well, its also pretty cheap.
BTW does anybody know if the Satch is based on this ? http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/xentar/1179/projects/adagio/Adagio.html
The dac in that link was one of the first dacs with valve output stages I tried, I built the lot on Matrix boards , sounded pretty good too ;)
The link is a Crystal Based DAC which I sold on last year. Not a patch on Marco's TDA based DAC for musicality or any good Multi-bit DAC.
The link is a Crystal Based DAC which I sold on last year. Not a patch on Marco's TDA based DAC for musicality or any good Multi-bit DAC.
Probably not great as is but http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5518
Just going by Marco's and others who did hear it
Yes, needs the Lampizator tube o/p stage adding, like Duncan has in his dac I believe. I am not fond of the SRPP Totem Pole stage Lukasz used in his early builds (way too much gain) although he seems to have switched to using a new circuit based on a Single Russian Tube and is now Single Ended O/P.
http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/LAMPUCERA/LAMPUCERA%20DAC/quick_lampizator.html
These are the tubes Lukasz switched to using sometime ago. I think he uses 6n2p now but his site is hard work to navigate and find the circuits.
http://www.lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/upgrade%20noval%20tubes%20to%206H6P.html
Not that it'll help much marco but we love the TDA!!!:lolsign:
Personally I've tried with a valve buffer and I thougth it was too much! The TDA's warm enough as is! I built this one in a nice ferrero rocher tray left over from Chrismas! Who needs a case :lolsign:
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr332/Trunky1812/TDA1541%20Green%20DAC/IMG_5843Medium.jpg
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr332/Trunky1812/TDA1541%20Green%20DAC/IMG_5844Medium.jpg
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr332/Trunky1812/TDA1541%20Green%20DAC/IMG_5845Medium.jpg
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr332/Trunky1812/TDA1541%20Green%20DAC/IMG_5846Medium.jpg
I've still got some bits to do like no decent reg on the filter :doh: even tho inevery post I tell everyone its the most important TDA mod! and DEM reclocking (the feeds are threre from the Trichord ready to go!) DIR9001 reciever chip too! :cool:
With a NOS dac I just tap into the I2S lines, allows the choice of adding a digi filter , choose between OS or NOS dead easy
Classic op-amp I/V is still crappy with these dacs no matter what op-amp you use so I can see why a lot of folks prefer passive I/V into a valve stage
Certainly no excuse to be bored with these chips, loads of stuff to try:lolsign:
giorgino
23-02-2010, 02:36
Must be dyslexia (or my one track mind) coz I keep reading it as "Snatch-Max" but that's a different website...:doh:
Classic op-amp I/V is still crappy with these dacs no matter what op-amp you use
I guess opamps don't like all this unlimited bandwidth crap the NOS designs let pass through ? :scratch:
With a NOS dac I just tap into the I2S lines, allows the choice of adding a digi filter , choose between OS or NOS dead easy
Yon mean a bit like this but not really Leo???!!!:lolsign:
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr332/Trunky1812/TDA1541%20Green%20DAC/dac_small.jpg
Also have you ever tried something like this? I'm not using the final opamp buffer stage but the rest is very good. Definately the best std commercial I/V I've heard.
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr332/Trunky1812/concept%20CD%20player/TDAdiscreteoutput.jpg
Yon mean a bit like this but not really Leo???!!!:lolsign:
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr332/Trunky1812/TDA1541%20Green%20DAC/dac_small.jpg ]
The beauty of diy, you can make some great looking sculptures :lolsign:
Also have you ever tried something like this? I'm not using the final opamp buffer stage but the rest is very good. Definately the best std commercial I/V I've heard.
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr332/Trunky1812/concept%20CD%20player/TDAdiscreteoutput.jpg
I tried something similar using transconductance IC's, it sounded very good.
I use something else now in my main TDA dac, simple but after testing so many other circuits turned out to be my favourite, unfortunately I can't share the details because its not my design, I was asked to try it and give an opinion but not to post it anywhere
Hi Dimitri,
I guess opamps don't like all this unlimited bandwidth crap the NOS designs let pass through ? :scratch:
My NOS Audiocom-modded Sony DAS-R1 is choc-a-block full of op-amps, and there's no evidence of any "crap" being passed though... Quite the contrary in fact, and with no willy-waving intended, is probably one of the best DACs you're ever likely to hear! ;)
Leo, what's going on there then if, as you say "Classic op-amp I/V is still crappy with these dacs no matter what op-amp you use..." :scratch:
Marco.
Are you sure your Sony is modified to NOS Marco? as in zero oversampling
BTW "classic op-amp I/V" is just the way the op-amp is implemented;)
I've nothing against op-amps in a lot of circuits, they work very well in a lot of applications, just don't like them used as current to voltage on the output of a I-out type dac (as seen in majority of old mainly budget cdp's)
Also how are those Op-amps implemented exactly in the Sony? none of them may actually be used as classic op-amp I/V , you may have a couple as servo's, buffer stage etc
I can assure though a discrete I/V or even passive I/V followed by say a valve stage pisses all over a classic op-amp I/V stage
I've been fiddling with TDA1541A for years now and tried more circuits with it than I care to admit, op-amp I/V can sound decent but no way is the best
Hi Leo,
Are you sure your Sony is modified to NOS Marco? as in zero oversampling
BTW "classic op-amp I/V" is just the way the op-amp is implemented;)
I've nothing against op-amps in a lot of circuits, they work very well in a lot of applications, just don't like them used as current to voltage on the output of a I-out type dac (as seen in majority of old mainly budget cdp's)
Also how are those Op-amps implemented exactly in the Sony? none of them may actually be used as classic op-amp I/V , you may have a couple as servo's, buffer stage etc
The answer is I don't have a scooby-doo! :lol: Btw, by "NOS" I meant as in NOS DAC chips, such as TDA 1541s or the fact that I have a 'classic' or vintage DAC.
Perhaps it uses discrete IVs then? I'm probably out of my technical depth here!
I'll ask Mark from Audiocom to come onto the thread and comment - he would know :)
All I know is that it uses loads of op-amps and it sounds bloody amazing - better, IMO, (or at least as good as) any valve-based, non-op amp DAC I've heard so far, although that situation may change tomorrow when Steve W brings round Duncan's superb Wolfson-based tube output DAC, which I've heard, but not yet in my own system! ;)
Marco.
Thats ok, it can become confusing , in all honesty I'd be surprised if the Sony wasn't discrete
The TDA1541A is a picky chip, I guess regarding classic op-amp I/V as crap is a little extreme :) , of course op-amp rolling can help but no matter what op-amp you use this type of I/V implementation isn't optimum for what the TDA see's on its output, you get the particular op-amp used heavy signature , it sort of bottle necks it where as say a good discrete you hear more of what the TDA1541A can do rather than the op-amp
The I/V stage is extremely important, its one of the reasons why I-out dacs are favoured more by the diyers instead of a v-out type dac using internal I/V ;)
Remember most of those valve output stage dacs use dac chips with V-out , they have internal I/V inside the actual dac chip already which is usually internal op-amps or switching capacitors
they have internal I/V inside the actual dac chip already which is usually internal op-amps Which are usually best bypassed and done discretely or passively if the option is available!!:lolsign:
unfortunately I can't share the details because its not my design, I was asked to try it and give an opinion but not to post it anywhere Tried lots myself too! Is the designer still open to additional testing? Given the fact that you've tried various designs and settled, I'd love to hear about it!
tubehunter
23-02-2010, 23:51
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/sony%20das%20r1/IMG_4229.jpg
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/sony%20das%20r1/IMG_4230.jpg
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/sony%20das%20r1/IMG_4231.jpg
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/sony%20das%20r1/IMG_4232.jpg
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/sony%20das%20r1/IMG_4233.jpg
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/sony%20das%20r1/IMG_4234.jpg
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/sony%20das%20r1/IMG_4235.jpg
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/sony%20das%20r1/IMG_4236.jpg
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/sony%20das%20r1/IMG_4237.jpg
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/sony%20das%20r1/IMG_4238.jpg
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/sony%20das%20r1/IMG_4239.jpg
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/sony%20das%20r1/IMG_4240.jpg
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/sony%20das%20r1/IMG_4241.jpg
Is it wrong to be excited by those pics Duncan? :lolsign:
Hi Dimitri,
My NOS Audiocom-modded Sony DAS-R1 is choc-a-block full of op-amps, and there's no evidence of any "crap" being passed though... Quite the contrary in fact, and with no willy-waving intended, is probably one of the best DACs you're ever likely to hear! ;)
Leo, what's going on there then if, as you say "Classic op-amp I/V is still crappy with these dacs no matter what op-amp you use..." :scratch:
Marco.
Has your Sony been modified to non-over-sampling (NOS) ? :eek:
The "crap" is the theory Marko : that's why you need a fliter at 22kHz : in 16/44 content, whatever the D/A converter produces over 22kHz is spurious noise, not content.
Is it wrong to be excited by those pics Duncan? :lolsign:
Wrong on so many levels.
Much more exciting when more is left to the imagination.
Has your Sony been modified to non-over-sampling (NOS) ? :eek:
Lol - no, I think the confusion arose in me always using "NOS" in terms of its reference to 'classic' or 'vintage', not "NOS", as in 'non-oversampling' :doh: :eyebrows:
Therefore, my Sony DAC is "NOS" simply because it uses TDA1541s :)
Marco.
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