View Full Version : Medic! Man down!
electric beach
19-02-2010, 13:09
Does this sound typical of any particular failure, guys?
System sounded truly awesome one evening, turned on the next evening and it just sounded broken.
Bass output has reduced, gone all bloated and no longer 'driven'. Dynamics are flat, instrument tone has disappeared along with all the actual musicians. It seems that everything is working but without enthusiasm, just going through the motions. It's not merely uninvolving, it just sounds wrong.
The nearest analogy that comes to mind is it sounds similar to two speakers wired out of phase.
I've physically checked everthing (no loose leads or incorrect connections), the lights are on but nobody is home.
I'm concluding that a component part must have failed; I initially thought a valve, but reading here it seems that would be a more gradual deterioration.
It's been this way for a couple of weeks now, so the hi fi pixies that visit in the night to miraculously mend these things have obviously abandoned me to this living hell. Any ideas for investigation before I resign myself to sending the amp and pre-amp to someone who knows what they're doing?
System is CD transport/ Valve Dac/ Valve Pre/ Valve power
Dave Cawley
19-02-2010, 13:16
You have a cold!
Dave
Have you tried replacing the CD player and/or amp to find out which component is at fault ?
electric beach
19-02-2010, 14:15
Have you tried replacing the CD player and/or amp to find out which component is at fault ?
Achooo! Soz. :o
Yes, changing from the transport to PS3 eliminated both the transport and the digital connection, PS3 being optical into the same Dac.
I will try taking the CD player analogue output straight into the Pre, that will eliminate the Dac - but I'm pretty sure that's OK as the TV sound is poor and that is straight into the Preamp.
I get this occasionally, but in my case it's gummed up ears (I suffer an adult version of Glue Ear apparently, which don't help my Tinnitus a great deal). A couple of days (usually) and it's back to normal - as normal as my ears can be these days...
One reason why I love the Mark Grant wires I'm using. The sound is very clear even at the lower volumes I listen at - I don't need to whack it up to hear everything in the back of the mix as subtle studio effects and acoustic are clearly audible now, rather than being slightly amorphous as they were before. This benefits both vinyl and CD sources..
Ali Tait
19-02-2010, 18:36
Could be a valve/component.Could be the mains.
twelvebears
19-02-2010, 18:46
Steve you mentioned this to me when we spoke the other day.
Silly question, but has Val noticed the same thing?
electric beach
19-02-2010, 19:40
Steve you mentioned this to me when we spoke the other day.
Silly question, but has Val noticed the same thing?
Hi Steve,
No not a silly question, its always a very useful confirmation because she hears even the subtle nuances the same.
Steve
Yes its shite! :doh:
Valerie x
If the speakers have all their drivers working, then it's probably a problem with the amp, I'm afraid. :(
electric beach
19-02-2010, 19:48
Could be a valve/component.Could be the mains.
Ali,
We've established its not the mains quality, although its not so broken that it doesn't get better as the mains improves throughout an evening or as substances are imbibed :eyebrows:
Could it be a valve???? Don't have experience to know what effect it can have when a valve's going off. What other components could fail and possibly be responsible without there having been an 'incident'? :confused:
The Vinyl Adventure
19-02-2010, 19:52
So soon after you get your dac too!
Have you done anything else in the room? New curtains or sofa or somthing?
electric beach
19-02-2010, 20:42
So soon after you get your dac too!
Have you done anything else in the room? New curtains or sofa or somthing?
Fortunately we had enough time to hear the awesome Dac do it's thang to know it's not that, which it's still doing but it's traits are muted and restrained. It's strange, everything's working but damped.
Val bought 2 new pictures which are sitting propped up on the sofa. She says that if I put the bloody things up, all will be well and the hi fi gods will be appeased.....
:sucks:
Nope....
That didn't work :scratch: And the logic seemed so sound!
:finger:
stonetostone
19-02-2010, 21:46
Fortunately we had enough time to hear the awesome Dac do it's thang to know it's not that, which it's still doing but it's traits are muted and restrained. It's strange, everything's working but damped.
Val bought 2 new pictures which are sitting propped up on the sofa. She says that if I put the bloody things up, all will be well and the hi fi gods will be appeased.....
:sucks:
Nope....
That didn't work :scratch: And the logic seemed so sound!
:finger:
Hi my amp sounds like this when i have pressed the monitor switch by mistake.
steve
Ali Tait
20-02-2010, 08:59
Are both channels affected equally?
Are both channels affected equally?
Good question! :popcorn:
electric beach
20-02-2010, 11:49
Are both channels affected equally?
I think so but I'll check further. Even the sub, which takes it's feed from the amp speaker outputs, lacks punch and definition.
My gut feeling is that it's the amp (in some way), but it could be the pre and that's harder to isolate.
I did report to Anthony that I get a small flare from under one valve for a second on start up, which he said could be a valve on the way out, but that was happening well before this started.
I feel like packing the whole thing up in boxes then starting again. And three new CDs turned up in the post this morning... :steam: :unfair:
Funny, if my system is on song then I feel that all is right with the world. When it sounds pants, then I can't stop thinking about it and it makes me so irritated and frustrated that I can;t be happy about anything! It's like an emotional foundation to my world. :lol:
Me thinks obsessed is the word :wah: I love this sport, the highs are exhilerating but the lows are a killer!
The Vinyl Adventure
20-02-2010, 11:59
Funny, if my system is on song then I feel that all is right with the world. When it sounds pants, then I can't stop thinking about it and it makes me so irritated and frustrated that I can;t be happy about anything! It's like an emotional foundation to my world. :lol:
Me thinks obsessed is the word :wah: I love this sport, the highs are exhilerating but the lows are a killer!
right there with you on that one, it was one of the most stressful things about moving house; getting the bloody hifi sounding half good...
I ha a dream just after we moved in that there was a load of rooms I hadn't noticed in the house and hannah decided she wanted me to use one as a listening room. The problem was, as I started moving my hifi in to one of them it would become clear that it was to small or a daft shape or that the floor was sloped or the ceilings meant the speakers had to be right next to each other...
Ali Tait
20-02-2010, 16:27
I think so but I'll check further. Even the sub, which takes it's feed from the amp speaker outputs, lacks punch and definition.
My gut feeling is that it's the amp (in some way), but it could be the pre and that's harder to isolate.
I did report to Anthony that I get a small flare from under one valve for a second on start up, which he said could be a valve on the way out, but that was happening well before this started.
I feel like packing the whole thing up in boxes then starting again. And three new CDs turned up in the post this morning... :steam: :unfair:
Funny, if my system is on song then I feel that all is right with the world. When it sounds pants, then I can't stop thinking about it and it makes me so irritated and frustrated that I can;t be happy about anything! It's like an emotional foundation to my world. :lol:
Me thinks obsessed is the word :wah: I love this sport, the highs are exhilerating but the lows are a killer!
The flash thing is not something to worry about.A lot of NOS valves do this on start-up.It's just inrush of current as the the filaments warm up.It's normal.I'd be tempted to swap valves between channels one at a time and see if that makes any difference.Also,if you have spares,try them also,and again see if there's any difference.It's a process of elimination Watson!:)
Mike Reed
20-02-2010, 17:59
Sensible suggestion, Ali; easy enough to swap valves around, but first I'd get a handle on whether it's the same for both channels.
This may be relevant, Steve, but my sound rolled off over a period of weeks. Could have been longer, as I was changing a lot of kit around at the time. I asked via a thread here about it.
Recently I changed the full complement of valves, and it really didn't sound much better....for the first few days, then everything just took off; and I mean 'took off' !) I've never looked back, as it were.
I found that the previous owner had run them 24/7 (!!!????) for a year, though the valves were only 3 years old.
I'm a learner in the world of valves, and this was an educational experience.
We've established its not the mains quality, although its not so broken that it doesn't get better as the mains improves throughout an evening or as substances are imbibed
You may have established that, but thinking along this train of thought further, have you (or your neighbours) bought anything new electrical recently, or has a factory been built in your area?
Maybe your next door neighbours have bought one of those ethernet by mains boxes. They are known (apparently) to inject a lot of crap into the mains supply. Do you have suitable mains filters etc? have you tried unplugging the fridge (and anything else electrical, including the central heating pump) in case something in your home is seriously broken and is injecting crap into the mains?
Kris.
electric beach
20-02-2010, 20:15
The flash thing is not something to worry about.A lot of NOS valves do this on start-up.It's just inrush of current as the the filaments warm up.It's normal.I'd be tempted to swap valves between channels one at a time and see if that makes any difference.Also,if you have spares,try them also,and again see if there's any difference.It's a process of elimination Watson!:)
In the pursuit of channel isolation we have progress!
Swapped the tube position and the flash at switch on moved with the tube, but nothing changed from one channel to the other.
Makes me happier about the valves. :)
Ali Tait
20-02-2010, 20:21
Yep,as I said,this really isn't a problem.Perfectly normal for small NOS valves.
electric beach
20-02-2010, 20:42
Are both channels affected equally?
We're making progress! :grouphug:
Maybe not finished progress but..
By a process of elimination working forward in the chain from the source, I've found that everything is equal between the channels, up to the speakers. One speaker is a little lower in output and I usually counter this with the balance controls on the preamp.
When I've taken extra trouble to equal the volumes of each speaker, the impression of lesser tone, dynamics, presence, etc of one when played individually was reduced.
Back on both channels and the sub back in.... the band walk back on stage and perform!
What remains is only adjustment of presentation.
I think.
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