View Full Version : Another US shooting
Haselsh1
06-11-2017, 18:31
Here we go again... this time the mass shooting occurred in a church. A BBC interview in the US today said "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". Surely people only kill people when society gives them the means and therefore makes sit easy...? This guy walks into a small town church with an assault rifle....?
What the hell is going on there when Donald Trump blames people with mental health problems and not Walmart selling firearms in a supermarket...?
It was Texas though, so his killing spree was terminated quite quickly by a civilian who happened to be passing and also had a rifle on him, presumably in the same way that you or I might carry an umbrella.
Also a helpful defence against other current maniac style attacks, with the vehicles or big knives. In the UK all we get to defend ourselves with is harsh language, and be careful what you say though, no 'hate speech' or plod will be nicking you along with the terrorists. Assuming you made it through alive, you being defenceless and all.
Light Dependant Resistor
06-11-2017, 19:00
A ban on firearms is obviously needed, however the really nasty side to this is the investment made in bullets. So also banning bullet manufacture you would start to see some immediate change,
If you recall Michael Moores efforts to reveal the the idiocy of firearm use https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUSpszWfu_w
and read the American Constitution, you will find the problems begin on December 15th 1791, namely the right to bear arms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Common sense is needed, but sadly this is severely lacking.
You'll never get rid of it there, unfortunately. Too much money riding on it. Don't start me on Trump...
You can't disarm an armed populace unless they let you and they will never let you. The genie long since got out the bottle there. So it will never happen.
Haselsh1
07-11-2017, 04:43
You'll never get rid of it there, unfortunately. Too much money riding on it. Don't start me on Trump...
Chris, so true with the money aspect. We're now finding out over here about all of those greedy buggers stashing away their personal fortunes in off shore banks. Even Her Majesty is at it. It is her bloody country apparently and she is investing her money elsewhere. We truly are doomed.
Haselsh1
07-11-2017, 04:49
It was Texas though, so his killing spree was terminated quite quickly by a civilian who happened to be passing and also had a rifle on him, presumably in the same way that you or I might carry an umbrella.
As a motorcyclist I find the current trend for brain dead groups to attack people with acid rather worrying. I wonder what would happen if, when approached by these morons, one just pointed a firearm at them. Surely that is self defence against chemical warfare...? I mean, I wouldn't be walking into a church and killing individuals I had no knowledge of would I...? Why is it that in this country when faced with a jar of Sulphuric Acid all you can do is close your eyes and hope...?
perlogalism
07-11-2017, 13:54
As a Gun owner myself, I have a particular view on this topic: It's not guns per se that are the problem but the type of guns. In the UK, we long ago banned the types of weapons whose sole purpose is to kill other people. We still allow single shot rifles (semi-auto in .22LR only) and shotguns but have done away with handguns and assault style weaponry. Personally, that's fine by me. I like a bit of Clay pigeon shooting with the shotgun and use my rifle for vermin control (foxes) and hunting for food (everything from Rabbits to Deer). If I ever did decide to go postal though, I'd have a maximum magazine capacity of 5 rounds and would have to cycle the bolt to fire each of them so the ability to kill quite so many people is greatly reduced.
It ain't perfect and every so often someone does something stupid (much to the ire of the rest of us) but it's immeasurably better than the situation in the 'States where you seem to be able to own what you want with as much ammunition as you want.
Incidentally, with regard to the comments about deterring terrorists or Acid attackers: If I used my weapons for anything like this, I'd have my licence removed and most likely be thrown in prison! The police take a very dim view of what they see as vigilante-ism! The use of a Firearm in the UK is limited to the conditions you apply for. To give some idea how careful you have to be I can shoot a Pheasant with my shotgun because it's a game bird. It's illegal to shoot it with a rifle because it's not vermin, rabbit, fox or deer!
walpurgis
07-11-2017, 14:50
I used to enjoy using handguns and was very good with them (and long guns). I suppose the ban is for the best, but I'd still like one.
Banning handguns for law abiding sane and sensible people has of course no effect whatsoever on gun crime, where illegally imported and bought guns are used.
These days I'm down to an 80lb pistol crossbow, two air rifles and a few slingshots. Not that there's anywhere to use them now, unless I decide to cull the rats.
perlogalism
07-11-2017, 15:59
I never had the chance to shoot a handgun but suppose it could be good fun. That's the problem though - is "fun" a good enough reason to hold a licence? I guess not :(
Think it these modern times its probably best the fewer have guns the better. Lets face it there are a lot of folk I wouldnt trust with a water pistol
I never had the chance to shoot a handgun but suppose it could be good fun. That's the problem though - is "fun" a good enough reason to hold a licence? I guess not :(
From a another point of view though, by what right does the Government prevent you from owning such a weapon? That is how firearms owners in America look at it.
Also should be pointed out that in many States the firearms legislation is as tough as it is in the UK. There are Federal laws that apply to all States but the bulk of the restrictions are put in place at the State level. As a rule of the thumb western and southern states are more lax. I don't know if it is still the case but it used to be that murders by firearms were higher per capita in some of the States that had the most stringent rules, Ohio was one of the worst.
The old rule applies: the criminals will always have access to illegal weapons through their criminal contacts whilst the law abiding man is left defenceless.
the law makers say your allowed them in usa..ie the nra;)
the law makers say your allowed them in usa..ie the nra;)
The thing is, even before the NRA existed you were allowed them (in some States), because there was very little on the way of law enforcement officers and it is a very big country so you had to look after yourself. Wildlife posed a threat too. As Grandpa Simpson puts it, 'How can you have a house without a gun? What if a bear came through the door?'
So if you went out anywhere you took a gun like you would take your wallet, just an everyday thing, and vast numbers of people owned several firearms. That was never the case in the UK so it was a lot easier for us here to gradually clamp down on it. In the USA any attempt to clamp down, even long before the NRA existed, was strongly opposed, and by a lot of people.
I'm not saying that the domestic firearms market in the USA is not lucrative, but there really is a lot more to it than just money. It is mostly a cultural thing. The idea that they could just pass a law and solve the problem is ludicrous. You could stop domestic sales but that still leaves a couple of hundred million weapons already out there. Plus they would just run them in from Mexico. Would help the Mexican economy, though.
well it was written into the constitution over 200 years ago, persunably by the forbears of the nra:eyebrows: it has of course been slightly adjusted a couple of times but not clearly. in actual fact its pretty obvious that the 2nd adm actually declared the right of states to keep their militia armed.
I work with a guy from Atlanta. He seems just as confused as anyone here.
He said that you can go on line and order weapons and bullets. At check out time the site may tempt you to buy other things. "Customers who bought this assault rifle also bought TNT, fuses, ball bearings and body armour"
I exaggerate a little. But you get the gist. AI on a website encouraging bad things.
It is knives and acid here in the UK as mentioned earlier. All extremely saddening - I am at a loss to understand any of this stuff.
from another standpoint the UK is worse. In the US I can at least understand the lobbyists, the business interests, the NRA.
But acid? OMG.
walpurgis
07-11-2017, 20:13
When I was young, teenagers with acid meant something else altogether.
When I was young, teenagers with acid meant something else altogether.
Best not to use either.
It's not just here. There has been a lot of it in Asia and africa
Haselsh1
08-11-2017, 19:31
When I was young, teenagers with acid meant something else altogether.
:eyebrows:
Haselsh1
08-11-2017, 19:32
LOL, if nothing else, it shows how bloody resourceful the human race is.
Mikeandvan
08-11-2017, 23:11
It was Texas though, so his killing spree was terminated quite quickly by a civilian who happened to be passing and also had a rifle on him, presumably in the same way that you or I might carry an umbrella.
Also a helpful defence against other current maniac style attacks, with the vehicles or big knives. In the UK all we get to defend ourselves with is harsh language, and be careful what you say though, no 'hate speech' or plod will be nicking you along with the terrorists. Assuming you made it through alive, you being defenceless and all.
Well said. The authorities in the UK have lost the plot. Been burgled? Sorry, Plods too busy chasing some internet troll.
Minstrel SE
09-11-2017, 03:47
And it is tragically going to happen again and again while people become more desensitised to it. I say that but you know what I mean...if it keeps getting reported and guns are not banned, what are we supposed to feel?
Until Humans realise the truth that a loaded gun doesnt set us free we will continue on in oblivion and misery.
Its a deeper issue in that the world is in a state of perpetual war and conflict is big business for those raking it in.
The sad fact is that they dont care and these events seem to be a price worth paying. It just reminds me that they dont care about my life or your life. We are the commodities and life is cheap for the masses in a modern capitalist system
When I was young, teenagers with acid meant something else altogether.
When I was young it mean't they were taking A level chemistry!
And it is tragically going to happen again and again while people become more desensitised to it. I say that but you know what I mean...if it keeps getting reported and guns are not banned, what are we supposed to feel?
Until Humans realise the truth that a loaded gun doesnt set us free we will continue on in oblivion and misery.
Its a deeper issue in that the world is in a state of perpetual war and conflict is big business for those raking it in.
The sad fact is that they dont care and these events seem to be a price worth paying. It just reminds me that they dont care about my life or your life. We are the commodities and life is cheap for the masses in a modern capitalist system
good post
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