WTD: Ruark Templar Mk1 or similar, small, sealed floorstanders.

[Karma Train]

Hi there,

As the title suggests really, would really like to find a nice pair of Mk1 Templars or something similar.

I put a vintage-ish system together with an old JVC JA-S44 integrated a pair of Technics SB-6000 (both circa 1978) and some JBL Control 25s for late night, neighbour-friendly listening and it sounds pretty damn nice (apart from the interference the amp picks up from the PC which is stashed behind the TV, can't seem to resolve that at all).

https://i.imgur.com/qBCxOky.jpg

The main problem however is that those old Technics speakers although they sound beautiful, are just too damn big for the room, I simply can't turn the system up loud enough to make them work at all. I also listen to my music from a bean bag on the floor (never quite got the hang of sofas) so the tweeters are well above my bonce.

The Mk1 Templars seem to answer all my issues, dinky size, sealed box so tight bass and none of the chuffing I hate and ideally suited to low down listening.

I'm very poor so I can't spend silly money and besides, the rest of the gear wouldn't merit it but any other suggestions of small, sealed box floorstanders would be appreciated. There are a pair of Tannoy DC2000s available locally which are the right kind of size but all the reviews of them seem pretty 'meh', would you agree with that assessment?

Many thanks.

[Audio Al]

I have a pair of Mk 11 Templar's I could sell for £150 the pair , however I am in Dagenham Essex and would require collection as they are complicated to pack safely for delivery and I dont have the original shipping boxes

[Karma Train]

I have a pair of Mk 11 Templar's I could sell for £150 the pair , however I am in Dagenham Essex and would require collection as they are complicated to pack safely for delivery and I dont have the original shipping boxes

Many thanks for your reply. Now had you written 40 years ago you would have found me living in Ilford, just down the road from you, sadly now though I'm in flippin' Somerset so that makes collection a bit of a no-no! I really am after the Mk1 Templars though being as they're a bit smaller and by all accounts sound different (in a good way) from the IIs. Thanks again though.

[jollyfix]

I have some Chario syntar T speakers, would sell for around £130.00,also some musical technology K speakers, very dinky those, bit bass light when hooked up to say a Rega Bro, but when hooked up to my old Akai sounded very nice. The Chario speakers have a downward sub in the base of the cabinet.I am away, but should be back next weekend,maybe could pop them down to you to try. I used to live in Taunton so know the place well. P M me your details if interested.21848218492185021847

[Karma Train]

I have some Chario syntar T speakers, would sell for around £130.00,also some musical technology K speakers, very dinky those, bit bass light when hooked up to say a Rega Bro, but when hooked up to my old Akai sounded very nice. The Chario speakers have a downward sub in the base of the cabinet.I am away, but should be back next weekend,maybe could pop them down to you to try. I used to live in Taunton so know the place well. P M me your details if interested.

Hi Dave, many thanks indeed for your reply, much appreciated. Both of those sound very interesting and they'd be great to try if it didn't put you out too much. Ideally though I would like to find some Mk1 Templars as they are a closed box design which tends to control the bass a bit better, something which is highly desirable in this miserable room my gear inhabits.
I was searching for some info on the Musical Technology Kestrels and stumbled across a pair being sold on Gumtree in Wellington, Somerset (where I actually live) OK the ad was over two years old but it amused me nonetheless. Those Kestrels sell for pennies don't they? The ones in Wellington went for £80 and a pair on Ebay £44....amazing considering they have a really good pedigree and were quite pricey when new.
Anyhoo, if you are about next weekend and wouldn't mind slumming it for a while in Wellington I'd be really interested to give your wares a listen, let's see if anything Templary turns up in the meantime and if not I'll PM you nearer the time as long as you're sure it wouldn't inconvenience you too greatly. Kind regards, Charlie.

[Bigman80]

I think you're right to wait for some Ruarks. I had a pair and they are great speakers. Keep looking!

[Karma Train]

I think you're right to wait for some Ruarks. I had a pair and they are great speakers. Keep looking!

Right now I seem to be making it my life's work! There are a pair currently on Feepay but they're a bit of a mess and the seller is asking stupid money, so I won't be going there! :)

[Mikeandvan]

I just sold a nice pair on Ebay for £180, strangely the Talisman model seem to be going for less, but the Talisman is a considerably better speaker. I currently own the Talisman II, although I also have a problem with boomy bass - with some music anyway, so these may not hang around for too long, but I just found the Templars a bit lacking in comparision.

[grog]

the musical tech speakers are really good, the kestrel's would be a great combo,
if not maybe try some of the smaller Eclipse 'egg' shaped speakers, should be good at low levels

[Karma Train]

I just sold a nice pair on Ebay for £180, strangely the Talisman model seem to be going for less, but the Talisman is a considerably better speaker. I currently own the Talisman II, although I also have a problem with boomy bass - with some music anyway, so these may not hang around for too long, but I just found the Templars a bit lacking in comparision.

I know, I had a last minute bid on them but lost out to the eventual winner....buggeration! :)
Boomy bass causes all sorts of problems in my room, hence me wanting the Templars, lacking is good in my book!

[Karma Train]

the musical tech speakers are really good, the kestrel's would be a great combo,
if not maybe try some of the smaller Eclipse 'egg' shaped speakers, should be good at low levels

Thanks for the recommendation, much appreciated. Hopefully, if 'Jollyfix' is still willing I might be able to give them a listen soon, slightly worried about the front port though as I hate the 'chuffing' which they can sometimes cause hence me mainly being interested in sealed box designs.

[Macca]

The Templars do have a slanted front baffle so if you sit low down the tweeter would be firing over your head. I don't think that would really be a problem but worth considering.

If you want presence at low volumes though you might be better going bigger rather than smaller.

[Karma Train]

The Templars do have a slanted front baffle so if you sit low down the tweeter would be firing over your head. I don't think that would really be a problem but worth considering.

If you want presence at low volumes though you might be better going bigger rather than smaller.

This is a very valid point, one that might actually make my head explode but I know exactly what you mean.
These old Technics SB-6000s with their 12" driver do sound particularly lovely and the bass, although pretty earth moving never gets boomy, the tweeters are just way too physically high though so a lot of the detail goes AWOL.
I was thinking that something like some old B&W DM2s might be ideal, still pretty enormous cabs but sealed and as the tweeters are mounted upside down they'd be at just the right level for my earholes, plus, they keep the vintage vibe going with my lovely old JVC amp.
There was a fulsome review of the Templars on the Stereophile site where the reviewer discovered that the best imaging was to be found in a very low listening position, that's what turned me onto them in the first place.
Sigh! Flippin hi-fi....it's a game innit? :)

[Macca]

There was a fulsome review of the Templars on the Stereophile site where the reviewer discovered that the best imaging was to be found in a very low listening position, that's what turned me onto them in the first place.
Sigh! Flippin hi-fi....it's a game innit? :)

I know the Templars well and he may well be right. It is a game and one in which there is really no substitute for suck and see.

I'm guessing you've tried tilting the Technics forward a little bit? A pound cone under the two rear feet, just create a bit of an angle? Spendy, I know...

[walpurgis]

The Templars do have a slanted front baffle so if you sit low down the tweeter would be firing over your head. I don't think that would really be a problem but worth considering.

I'm not sure why, but speakers that slope backwards or have sloped baffles tend to sound decent. Like the Ruarks and the old Spica TC50, also those made by Reference and a few others.

[Macca]

I'm not sure why, but speakers that slope backwards or have sloped baffles tend to sound decent. Like the Ruarks and the old Spica TC50, also those made by Reference and a few others.

My JM Lab speakers slope backwards at the bottom and forwards at the top. :)

[Mikeandvan]

If I don't manage to tame the bass on my current Talisman IIs, then I shall also be looking elsewhere. Before the Templars I had Epos es11, no problem with boominess with those as far as I remember, or it was a great deal less than the Talisman. I think I found them slightly bright though, but I would try another pair. TBH people search for speakers which have a reputation, so Epos es series are sought after, Ruark slightly less so. I'm sure there are a great many speakers out there which would suit your situation and mine, personally its just a shame I don't know which models to look for, there's so many goddam speaker manufacturers! I've also thought about monitors, but apparently my 45w Naim amp isn't upto the job.

[Karma Train]

Just an update for anybody in the slightest bit interested.
Last night I picked up a mint pair of Tannoy DC2000s for £100.
This is purely a sideways step until I can locate some Ruark Templars which I'm determined to do even if I expire in the process!
The Tannoys are just the right height for my listening position because the dual concentric speakers fire directly at my ear level plus they're a sealed box design which keeps the bass boom to a minimum.
Sound-wise they're a bit on the woolly side but the graphic (don't swear) on my old JVC amp sorts that out quite nicely. The thing that impresses me the most about them though is the amazing soundstage they present, the panning of all the musical parts can be pinpointed almost exactly, to be honest, I've never experienced anything like this kind of accuracy before and I'm enjoying it greatly, it's almost like wearing a giant pair of headphones.
I know none of the gear I use could really be described as hi-fi as it's cheap and cheerful but for me, a musician of over 40 years it's always been about finding equipment I can live with and I definitely think I can live with this setup for the time being.
Thanks for all your magnificent help, it's been truly appreciated.

[Bigman80]

Great stuff! Whilst not the cream of the crop (in tannoy terms), they are very popular speakers non the less.

I'm glad you've shared your experience of them with us.

Just enjoy them for a while and get the ruarks when you're ready. Won't get that imaging with the ruarks though.

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[hifinutt]

Just an update for anybody in the slightest bit interested.
Last night I picked up a mint pair of Tannoy DC2000s for £100.
This is purely a sideways step until I can locate some Ruark Templars which I'm determined to do even if I expire in the process!
The Tannoys are just the right height for my listening position because the dual concentric speakers fire directly at my ear level plus they're a sealed box design which keeps the bass boom to a minimum.
Sound-wise they're a bit on the woolly side but the graphic (don't swear) on my old JVC amp sorts that out quite nicely. The thing that impresses me the most about them though is the amazing soundstage they present, the panning of all the musical parts can be pinpointed almost exactly, to be honest, I've never experienced anything like this kind of accuracy before and I'm enjoying it greatly, it's almost like wearing a giant pair of headphones.
I know none of the gear I use could really be described as hi-fi as it's cheap and cheerful but for me, a musician of over 40 years it's always been about finding equipment I can live with and I definitely think I can live with this setup for the time being.
Thanks for all your magnificent help, it's been truly appreciated.

great choice , friend of mine has built the most massive organ in his room . probably over 20 foot wide and 10 foot high. he uses tannoy dc2000 for the speakers in it and a sub and wow , you should hear it . its unbelievably good .

[Karma Train]

great choice , friend of mine has built the most massive organ in his room . probably over 20 foot wide and 10 foot high. he uses tannoy dc2000 for the speakers in it and a sub and wow , you should hear it . its unbelievably good .

I wish I had a massive organ....fnaar, fnaar! :eyebrows:

I've been listening to these humble DC2000s all morning, the imaging is just stupidly good on them,
they have a tendency to sound a tad muddy but that aside I'm really, really enjoying them.
Bought as a stopgap but who knows, they could be sticking around for quite a while to come the way things are going.

[walpurgis]

The DC1000 with the single driver images even better. If you find those a bit muddy, get them off the floor a bit.

[Karma Train]

The DC1000 with the single driver images even better. If you find those a bit muddy, get them off the floor a bit.

That's a good idea, would floor spikes be enough to tighten them up a bit do you reckon?
Don't want to lift them too high as that would raise them above my ear level.

[struth]

I wish I had a massive organ....fnaar, fnaar! :eyebrows:

I've been listening to these humble DC2000s all morning, the imaging is just stupidly good on them,
they have a tendency to sound a tad muddy but that aside I'm really, really enjoying them.
Bought as a stopgap but who knows, they could be sticking around for quite a while to come the way things are going.

http://nestaquin.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/ken.jpg

[walpurgis]

That's a good idea, would floor spikes be enough to tighten them up a bit do you reckon?
Don't want to lift them too high as that would raise them above my ear level.

Spikes may help, but my inclination would be to get them maybe four inches higher. I have my big Tannoys on 9" plinths. Works well.

The central tweeter in the top drive unit should be around ear level, but slightly higher won't hurt.

[Karma Train]

Spikes may help, but my inclination would be to get them maybe four inches higher. I have my big Tannoys on 9" plinths. Works well.

The central tweeter in the top drive unit should be around ear level, but slightly higher won't hurt.

Thanks for the advice, I'll see what I can come up with.

[Macca]

Cans of soup or beans will do to experiment, just to get a bit of air under them.

[Karma Train]

Cans of soup or beans will do to experiment, just to get a bit of air under them.

Will tins of Pilchards do? They had an offer on them in ASDA! :)
The thing is I don't want to lift the flippin' things up too high as with them on the floor the DC tweeter is at exactly the right height for my lugholes!
I was thinking perhaps, ceramic floor tile underneath and spikes in the speakers, or would that just be wasting my time?

[Macca]

Even 2 inches up should give you cleaner bass. The further you move the drivers from a boundary (wall or floor or ceiling) the less bass you will get. Sat right on the floor doesn't work with a lot of speakers, hard against a wall does work for some.

I used 8 dice as little feet for some speakers once, raised them about half an inch, but it did clean the sound up a little. If you've got a bit of wood in the garage, cut some blocks off that.

[jollyfix]

Hi Charlie, glad you got sorted.

[Karma Train]

Hi Charlie, glad you got sorted.

Not so much sorted as delaying the onset of madness for a Month or two! :)

[bobvfr]

Because of the dual concentric design, I have found Tannoy's are often less directional than most speakers, so even if the centre of the speaker is lower of higher than optimal you don't lose out as much compared to multiple driver speakers regards placement.

[Karma Train]

So following the advice of a number extremely helpful AOS members I managed to lift my rather woolly sounding Tannoy DC2000s of the ground a bit.
I was both surprised and pleased to discover that what I thought were rubber feet on the base of the speakers were actually unscrewable plugs which when undone revealed threaded holes for M6 speaker spikes. Somewhat conveniently I had a few spikes lying around and so when they were fitted I placed the speakers on left over ceramic floor tiles and without counting any chickens it seems to have tidied the bass end of these speakers up considerably. Thanks again for all your brilliant help and advice.

https://i.imgur.com/4QwW96E.jpg

[walpurgis]

Thought it would help.

You do realise that having other speakers in the room and guitars etc., can 'colour' the sound from your system? They will resonate at certain frequencies, in sympathy with the music coming from the system. I'm not pulling your leg, it's true! :)

[Bigman80]

Thought it would help.

You do realise that having other speakers in the room and guitars etc., can 'colour' the sound from your system? They will resonate at certain frequencies, in sympathy with the music coming from the system. I'm not pulling your leg, it's true! :)It is true.

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