How good is a Caiman or TC-7520 as a pre-amp?

[monstermoo]

Hi all, this is my first post here as you can see. I thought I'd pop along as you all seem like a friendly and knowledgeable bunch and can hopefully help me with a few questions :)

First, a bit about my system - I'm using a Sony BDP-S360 bluray player for CD's and this is hooked up to a Linn LK1 preamp which feeds Linn LK2 and LK280/spark power amps which in turn feed Linn Isobariks which are passive at the moment, but I plan o run aktiv in the future.

I am not totally happy with the sound as vocals can seem a little detached or pushed to the back of the music at times if that makes sense:scratch: - not really 'true to life' - details can seem to be missing and I just don't get that foot tapping involvement at times. A real shame because I know the system is capable of more.

I'd like to get into streaming music and lossless i-tunes via Airport express seems the simplest (and probably cheapest) way and before you mention it, my budget will not stretch to a Linn DS ;)
The LK1 has very limited inputs, and as its very old these do not include coax or optical so I can't make the most of modern devices.

Which leads me to consider buying a DAC.

I'm considering getting myself a Beresford Caiman or TC-7520 dac to partner my Sony blu-ray player and as a means to connecting an Airport Express for lossless i-tunes.

But I'm wondering if the Beresford would allow me to lose the LK1 without detriment to the system by connecting directly to the power amps - perhaps even improve things a little by removing one of the 'obstacles'?

What are your views / opinions / advice please?

Thanks

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Either dac can be used both as just a dac with it's fixed outputs or as a pre with the variable, so if you got one you could try it either way and see what works best for you you!
Welcom by the way :)

[Labarum]

My Caiman drives my refurbished Quad 405-2 beautifully. So would a 7520. For maximum resolution choose the caiman.

I feed it from

1. A Squeezebox using the an RCA`S/PDIF lead

2. A TV using an optical lead

3. There is room for another optical in Sat/Cable Box or games console

4. I can plug my laptop into the Caiman by USB

I can also plug the laptop into the TV by HDMI and the sound will optically loop through to the Caiman - more than good enough for DVDs

Very flexible.

No analogue inputs possible, of course.

I would have thought loosing the Preamp would be a big gain.

The Squeezebox has a good digital volume control. I can drive the power amp from the fixed output of the Beresford Caiman and rely solely on the digital volume control, but the other sources do not have their own volume control. The advantage is small, and without an analogue volume control there is a (small) risk of blowing the tweeters.

I should go for it.

Unless you want a thorough going Apple solution, I should consider Squeezebox streaming as well.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/

[chrism]

I also use a SB3 via spdif (Mark Grant Belden cable) into a Caiman (fitted with Murata regs etc) and a high quality linear PSU. I use the Caiman variable out (so it is a preamp) into an Avondale A260 power amp.

The sound quality is brill and easily up with an old Naim CDS1 & 52/super that I used to own.

Regards

Chris

[monstermoo]

Thanks for the replies, I think that settles it then.

Now, which one to choose....I'm guessing the Caiman is worth the extra outlay?

[Labarum]

Certainly is.

[leo]

Yes, Caiman makes a great little integrated dac and pre, its worked well with everything I've tried it with

[Labarum]

Is Stan still offering a discount to AOS members who contact him by PM?

[StanleyB]

Only to members who actively participate on AoS and have a reasonable post count. Some folks have signed up in the past and have never posted, just to get the discount. I can't allow the kindness of the AoS admin to be abused in such a way, and to be seen to encourage it.

[monstermoo]

Well, I can safely say I wasn't even aware of a discount so that's certainly not why I joined - it was because I know readers here a very familiar with the Beresford DACs and thought it would be the best place for information :)

[DSJR]

Hi and welcome.

I think 'Briks would be far better served with a modern amp such as a Cambridge 840Av2, which can be got in ex-return or service form for £600. it would be quite a bit better than the LK1/280/Spark.

If the above is too big a leap of faith, then a kairn pro preamp will give you some atmosphere and reverb reproduction the Lk1 could never do (speaking as an ex owner and retailer of the LK1/280 with add-ons). The Croft Series 25 preamp is better again, but this again would be a leap of faith I think, although it should drive a Tun-Box with no difficulty.

Changing the LK280/Spark for a LATE Klout or three would also be hugely beneficial and would let your system breathe - the 280 seemed to squeeze the sound out into 'briks and the Spark made it worse - if you want to hear a "constipated" sound, look no further....

Apologies for dissing your amps on your first couple of days here, but your 'briks deserve better and there are many good amps now that will give high CLEAN power into your 3 to 4 ohm loading and I truly believe that the Naim derived Avondale stuff will easily out-perform the Linn offerings too - google up a ZAP250 at least.....

[monstermoo]

Thanks for the advice Dave, I will take a look at my options as you have discussed - although budget will dictate if/when these changes can take place.

As I'm running an LK2 and LK280/spark (the 280 doing the front drivers and the LK2 doing the tops and rear bass) would the Cambridge amp on its own really offer a better performance?

[StanleyB]

I had the LK2 and it sounded very good in my then system. The preamp is however heavily reliant on digital switches, which is the weak link. So bypass the preamp.

[monstermoo]

Thanks Stan,

I just need to wait 'till pay-day at the end of the month then I'll place my order ;)
Can you tell me if you have a backlog of orders on the Caiman or how long it would take to arrive here after ordering? (UK).

[chrism]

Hi Monster,

See if Stan will do you a deal with the Murata's and Rubycon non-polars already in it. Well worth considering if it is an option.

Regards

Chris

[monstermoo]

See if Stan will do you a deal with the Murata's and Rubycon non-polars already in it. Well worth considering if it is an option.




What are the advantages of having these fitted?
Sorry for my ignorance - I'm not very technical when it comes to these things:scratch:

[Labarum]

What are the advantages of having these fitted?
Sorry for my ignorance - I'm not very technical when it comes to these things:scratch:

A question like that could start a heated discussion!

Here is a technical review of capacitors in audio circuits

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/capacitors.htm#7.0

Even the "not very technical" will get the drift of the opening paragraph and the conclusion of this article.

Others, of course, will disagree.

In this particular case (a variation of the stock Caiman), I cannot say for I do not know what the exchange would cost and have not heard the Caiman with and without.

[Themis]

Problem with such conclusions is that they always include "provided that" and several "if"s.
Just stating that you need ABX tests to prove something is contrary to the science it is supposed to be backed up...
Substituting a testing methodology (without questioning its validity in specific cases) to facts and mathematics is the last shelter for doing exactly what some fight against : self-proven opinions.

[chrism]

What are the advantages of having these fitted?
Sorry for my ignorance - I'm not very technical when it comes to these things:scratch:

Hi,

For the cost it is a no-brainer option in my opinion. The caps are around £2.00 to buy and the Murata's can be had for around £18.00 in a group purchase situation.

These mods improve the depth of the sound stage and overall transparency (more of a pure sound as I keep saying).

Regards

Chris

[monstermoo]

Have just placed my order for a Caiman:)

But in my excitement have forgotten to order interconnects.

As I will be connecting my Sony BDP-S360 bluray player and an Airport express - what is the recommended option for cables?

Of course then there the LK2/LK280 power amps - not sure if I'm going to need to get specially made cables for these that will allow connection to the Caiman:doh:

Still, should be great when it's all up and running :lolsign:

[Labarum]

If you fancy Stan's own Toslink cables just email or PM him, otherwise a trip to a local Maplin.

You connect the DAC to your Preamp (or directly to your power amp) with standard RCA phono leads, and you must have some of those.

Or look at what members of another forum recommend

http://hddaudio.net/viewtopic.php?id=638

Don't pay silly money.

Edit: Ah. Linn. Does that mean XLR interconnects?

[monstermoo]

Edit: Ah. Linn. Does that mean XLR interconnects?


Unfortunately, yes :(

[monstermoo]

Just had a quick look, and it doesn't seem that complicated - should be able to make up XLR/phono interconnects easy enough.

Trouble is, to use both power amps I still need to go through the LK1, which is a shame :(
Perhaps I'll try it with just the Lk280...

[monstermoo]

...or the LK2 on one side and the LK280 on the other. NOT ideal.

Hmmm, I can see some amplifier changes on the horizon ;)

[The Grand Wazoo]

Am I misunderstanding something here?
Are you intending to bi-amp the output of your Caiman?

If so, why can't each you split the output of each channel? This is simple to do.
If I'm barking up the wrong tree then tell me to bugger off!

[Alex_UK]

Am I misunderstanding something here?
Are you intending to bi-amp the output of your Caiman?

If so, why can't each you split the output of each channel? This is simple to do.
If I'm barking up the wrong tree then tell me to bugger off!

That's what I thought too (but bugger off anyway! ;))

[Stratmangler]

Maybe this gives a good clue ?


Edit: Ah. Linn. Does that mean XLR interconnects?

'Cos the answer to the quoted question is yes, and the connections on the Caiman are single ended RCA phono.

Chris;):ner:

[The Grand Wazoo]

So are the Linns balanced only then?

Sorry for my ignorance, but I usually have not the slightest interest in what's going on round the back of anything made by Linn (nor round the front either for that matter).

[Stratmangler]

So are the Linns balanced only then?

Sorry for my ignorance, but I usually have not the slightest interest in what's going on round the back of anything made by Linn (nor round the front either for that matter).

Unfortunately it is so - just had a peek at the owner's manual, which confirms it's balanced only.

Chris:)

[The Grand Wazoo]

Simple............something like this'll do it...........
http://www.arcdb.ws/BL2/BL2.html

.............if you can find one
.............if you've got the cash

However I suspect that the presence of a Caiman indicates a little shortfall in the required lolly dept.
I suppose it's a big outlay just to make a cable connection!!

http://www.arcdb.ws/BL2/pic.jpg

ARC BL2 Balanced Line Converter - RCA Phono In:Balanced out.

Still, it'd make a good shelf for a Caiman!!!!

[Stratmangler]

A soldering iron will cost less.

That, and information held on this page http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.errock.co.uk/unbal%2520input%2520cable%2520wiring%2520med%2520r es.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.errock.co.uk/pre11.htm&h=200&w=469&sz=37&tbnid=rFXF7Nl7hlE3kM:&tbnh=55&tbnw=128&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dxlr%2Bto%2Bphono&hl=en&usg=__IU-QfyHoFX7NcJ-YCWT6KrGBrOc=&ei=eRGHS6n2Iab40wSWqrDNCw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=7&ct=image&ved=0CCoQ9QEwBg

Scroll halfway down the page and you'll see an inexpensive way out of the problem.

Chris:)

[The Grand Wazoo]

A soldering iron will cost less.

Yeah, I know but I like pictures of ARC kit!

[Kris]

Yeah, I know but I like pictures of ARC kit!

I'm with you there. That BL2 is beautiful. I wish all hi-fi looked as good.

[StanleyB]

So are the Linns balanced only then?
Nope. It just uses the Canon/XLR connectors to look balanced. The 2nd generation of LK2 had ordinary RCA sockets instead. I replaced the Canon connectors on my 1st generation LK1/2 with RCA sockets.

[monstermoo]

I've ordered some XLR-phono converters so that sorts the connection issues out.
In terms of bi amping (with one amp on the left channel and the other on the right) - that is what I will be trying out, it's just better when both power amps are identicle, but unfortunately mine are not :( (although they have the same gain)

[monstermoo]

Am I misunderstanding something here?
Are you intending to bi-amp the output of your Caiman?

If so, why can't each you split the output of each channel? This is simple to do.
If I'm barking up the wrong tree then tell me to bugger off!


No, you're right! - I don't know what I was thinking before! :doh::lol:

[The Grand Wazoo]

In terms of bi amping (with one amp on the left channel and the other on the right) - that is what I will be trying out

I think I can predict the outcome of your experiments, and I think you might end up bi-amping horizontally rather than the vertical arrangement you're suggesting!