Why vinyl matters

[Haselsh1]

http://teamrock.com/feature/2017-11-01/why-vinyl-matters-by-lars-ulrich

Came across this on't net.

[farflungstar]

Whilst I love vinyl and shun all things digital I don't believe it can survive the evolution of technology over the next 50 years. It will die as an industry just as most things we take fur granted today will

[Minstrel SE]

The music matters and Im getting a bit fed up of the nostalgia slant of these articles as if vinyl is the only thing that defines self, community and culture.

The article like others is all over the place...the 17 year old lad has a "shitty $50 dollar player" so its not even about sound quality. Its mainly about some twisted nostalgia and the glorious time we had buying our vinyl albums.

I enjoy vinyl but the record shop was never the centre of my world and I dont think I will be buying it in significant quantities again. Im wondering if I really do need to hold a 12" sleeve as a physical object as I havent been all that bothered with buying them again

Its a question of educating ourselves and accepting to the possibilities of new technology. In a way the vinyl revival is confusing me. I have heard great things digitally and there has never been a better time for the easy availability of music. As long as I have music I would welcome the convenience of speaking to a voice recognition system and streaming one of millions of tracks in the library.

[struth]

The music matters and Im getting a bit fed up of the nostalgia slant of these articles as if vinyl is the only thing that defines self, community and culture.

The article like others is all over the place...the 17 year old lad has a "shitty $50 dollar player" so its not even about sound quality. Its mainly about some twisted nostalgia and the glorious time we had buying our vinyl albums.

I enjoy vinyl but the record shop was never the centre of my world and I dont think I will be buying it in significant quantities again. Im wondering if I really do need to hold a 12" sleeve as a physical object as I havent been all that bothered with buying them again

Its a question of educating ourselves and accepting to the possibilities of new technology. In a way the vinyl revival is confusing me. I have heard great things digitally and there has never been a better time for the easy availability of music. As long as I have music I would welcome the convenience of speaking to a voice recognition system and streaming one of millions of tracks in the library.

Ive got speech recog and enjoy it but it doesn't work as well as a keyboard for everything. Ive found that say s 10" tablet can give a similar feel to an album cover. I think this is where something like Roon comes into its own. Pity I can't afford it

[Minstrel SE]

Its not so much that example of how technology is changing but the people harping on about vinyl in their youth like it was some golden age and out of body experience.

I just bought the stuff as there was no other format apart from tapes. I didnt have a community experience in the record shop and the stock was usually very limited or sold out. If anything the people behind the counter sneered :) at my choices and I didnt really experience a fountain of knowledge in pointing me towards amazing experiences. Maybe I should have put my tartan bondage trousers on and hung about there more :)

I just dont buy that we were more connected with the music because we lowered a needle. Im quite happy that there is a so called revival but I think it will peak at a tiny fraction of total sales.

It may be driven by the hipsters but what are the younger people today really missing out on when they have more gadgets and direct access than we could ever have dreamed of.

[farflungstar]

Its not so much that example of how technology is changing but the people harping on about vinyl in their youth like it was some golden age and out of body experience.

I just bought the stuff as there was no other format apart from tapes. I didnt have a community experience in the record shop and the stock was usually very limited or sold out. If anything the people behind the counter sneered :) at my choices and I didnt really experience a fountain of knowledge in pointing me towards amazing experiences. Maybe I should have put my tartan bondage trousers on and hung about there more :)

I just dont buy that we were more connected with the music because we lowered a needle. Im quite happy that there is a so called revival but I think it will peak at a tiny fraction of total sales.

It may be driven by the hipsters but what are the younger people today really missing out on when they have more gadgets and direct access than we could ever have dreamed of.I disagree. I loved going to the 4 record shops in my nearest town and browsing the albums. The whole experience was special and something I looked forward to all week while at school, having saved up my pocket/paper round money. I guess at 15 it made me feel a little grown up, I don't know, but it was special in a way then which today it isn't.

[Tim]

This part is mostly bollocks to me,


"It’s just nice to be able to sit down and listen to music for no other reason than to sit down and listen to music. When you’re in your car, music is an afterthought. You put some music on when you’re cooking in the kitchen, or when you’re sitting on an airplane and staring out the window, bored. It’s a background function to some other activity. You used to put a record on for no other reason than to sit down and completely immerse yourself in the music, the lyric sheet and the pictures; sit there and dream your life away. It was pretty cool.

It still is pretty cool if you want it to be and you don't necessarily need an LP to achieve it. I pretty much always put music on to sit down and listen to it, it's nearly always a file from a server and I can immerse myself in it, whilst reading the sleeve notes/lyrics I have scanned to .pdf and read on a tablet PC. Which I find much easier, especially with subdued lighting to compliment the immersive listening. Going further, isn't it easier to immerse yourself in a complete work if you don't have to get up halfway through to change sides? Phaedra (Tangerine Dream) without having to get up and the lights down low can be totally immersive if you don't have to move, which you can't do with an LP.

Music in the car is far from an after thought either, its normally carefully chosen and whilst cooking too. I don't do playlists or shuffle play. An album in my world is a complete work, played from start to finish. So a load of bollocks IMHO and completely dependant on the person listening to the music and how they choose to engage with it, it's feck all to do with if it's vinyl or not.

None of the above though is directed at the OP, just the author of the nonsense article, so thanks for sharing it [emoji6]

I do however think LPs will still be around in 50 years time, it's a niche market yes, but a strong and resilient one. Plus with kids buying lots of vinyl now, they are likely to be where we are now in half a century.

It's not vinyl, CDs, internet streaming, file based audio, tape, radio or live that matters . . it's the music itself.

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[Haselsh1]

Well again, it is all down to us as individuals, at least I hope we are. I also remember being fourteen years old and saving every penny to go and buy an LP which was indeed a very precious experience. Of course back then an LP would set you back £3.50 and not twenty six quid but I guess it's all relative. And of course regarding the old digital versus vinyl crap, I have both because there are times when I want both. Yes, Brian Eno's ambient stuff would be ruined on vinyl where I would be in the dark with just the glow of valves and a few LED's and no, I bloody wouldn't want to get up after each side to turn it over. That would be akin to having to put on a condom when things are getting a tad heated. However,
there are times when the vinyl experience is a must. I am just happy I have the choice. I am also happy I have that big piece of artwork as well because vinyl is not just about the music.

[Haselsh1]

Its not so much that example of how technology is changing but the people harping on about vinyl in their youth like it was some golden age

It was...! It was 1973 and it most certainly was. There has been nothing like it since.

[struth]

I used to love flipping through those big racks too. Remember finding zep 1. That big zeppelin. Looked so cool I grabbed it and went to counter. The hippy said. "You'll not like this"
I persevered and took it home. Boy was that a moment

[alphaGT]

It was a special time in music. I recall 1973 and 74, some of the best (rock) music ever written was being made. It was new! It was exciting, our parents hated it, and it has stood the test of time. And Vinyl was the medium of the day, these albums of music were written to fit the standard. And it sounded great! In fact, those same albums still play and sound great today. That’s why I think Vinyl will still be played 50 and 100 years from now, because of the sheer number of great vinyl still in the possession of people like myself. Yes I have CD’s, I’m not quite there on streaming but I see it’s appeal. But I’ve got a nice collection of great vinyl albums that I can think of no reason to replace. A pile of money invested that I don’t need to spend again. And I can replace most of it if I had to, but a lot of it never was remastered on new vinyl, or converted to CD, and I’m not sure it’s even out there on Streaming? A lot of great old music.

And I can’t get around the fact that at times I do enjoy playing Records, I enjoy handling it, cleaning it, adjusting the turntable and dropping the needle. I can’t say why, just an old habit I suppose. And my son in law is already drooling over the prospect of inheriting my collection and turntable. So hopefully the tradition will live on. Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with digital in any fashion, and I also agree how great it is to have a double album on a CD, so I don’t have to flip it 4 times to hear it all. But somehow vinyl will always hold a place in my heart. And the billions of records sold in the past near 70 years now do exist, it could take a while for them all to get played up. Heck, there are still people who play their 78 collections, they still sell phono needles for them. No one still plays their old 8 track tapes, because they all rotted away!


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[Haselsh1]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41747615

[Haselsh1]

Yep, yep and yep. My first ever LP was 'Every Picture Tells A Story' at £3.50 and my second was 'Stranded' that was a christmas present from my sister. My last purchase was Gary Numan's latest. I see no reason whatsoever why the vinyl LP will not carry on regardless just as it has done in the face of digital from 1983 onwards. The army tank was developed in WW One, I don't see it becoming obsolete any time soon.

[Tim]

I do agree that the days of hanging around record stores was an important part of the 70s for me, Stamford Music Shop was like my youth club, I was in there all the time. Me I my mate even ended up dating some of the assistants!

I guess what the article is saying is that 'generally' a lot don't sit and listen like they used to, I certainly find that hi-fi in front rooms is much less common than it was in my youth, but is that anything to do with vinyl or a change of lifestyle?

Still interesting to see it's resurgence which is a good thing and the 70s was a great time, I loved buying records and going to gigs and festivals - I never imagined I'd still be doing it over 40 years later

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[struth]

Lots of other things to occupy folk now. My older grandson is into music but on his phone. xbox and tv are the kings I guess now.

[Haselsh1]

I remember the early eighties and being involved with a crowd of music and hi-fi loving people. We would often get together at one of the huge old Victorian terraces with my Logic DM101, another guys Crimson Electric monoblocks and KEF 105.4's. The sounds were inevitably Prog Rock from the seventies but the thing that struck me the most was that no one talked over the music. All of us were engrossed totally by the sound. Whisky was our thing back then as it still is now but those days were so special. Coming up date, music appears almost as an intrusion now to someone's desire to talk all of the time. What the hell happened to music...? I mean 'real' music...? Intricate notes, chords or phrases that meant so much.
Why is music now such a throw away surplus...? OK, so time moves on but history as they say is destined to repeat itself which indeed it seems to be doing. Going forward ( dont'cha just love that term) what next...?

[Tim]

I still find it incredible how the cost of buying music hasn't changed much. Going through my LPs from a recent move I found albums bought in the 70s that still had price labels of £7.99 on.

Google that price from 1970 and you can find this;


"UK Inflation Rate, 1970-2017 (£7.99)

According to the Office for National Statistics, the pound experienced an average inflation rate of 5.87% per year. Prices in 2017 are 1357.4% higher than prices in 1970.

In other words, £7.99 in the year 1970 is equivalent to £116.45 in 2017, a difference of £108.46 over 47 years."

I've thought music is too cheap for years now, but I guess it has to be with so many ways to enjoy it without actually paying for it.

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[walpurgis]

Why is music now such a throw away surplus...?

Music is mostly just a mass commodity for kids these days. You certainly don't see much instrument playing. If it doesn't sell to thirteen year olds in vast quantities, the record labels don't want to know. It's what we used to call 'bubble gum music' way back!

People who understand and enjoy real music are less well catered for.

[Tim]

It's what we used to call 'bubble gum music' way back!
I still call it that Geoff and still don't like it. Never been into pop or anything considered mainstream.

[Haselsh1]

I still call it that Geoff and still don't like it. Never been into pop or anything considered mainstream.

Oh yeah I remember back in the old days of senior school there were a small selection of us youths that were unbelievably snobbish about our choice of music and that choice was inevitably Prog Rock. Those who weren't with us were definitely not worth taking seriously. How times change. These days it is mainly manufactured for early teens who haven't got a clue what Am is and don't really care. Then of course there are those who think some guy talking over a drum machine is music. Back in my day it was so damn cool to be 'into' music. Jesus if you could play Smoke On The Water on a guitar you were damn near worshipped.

I just can't understand what happened. Maybe the whole record company greed thing just ran out of steam and energy. Those companies certainly milked it for every million even blaming people for using cassette tape. I guess our whole outlook was totally different to theirs now and maybe 'we' are simply stuck in a time warp of our own making...? I go to people's houses now and there is no hi-fi system to be seen. I just don't understand that which I guess leads to it all being a matter of priorities. Why don't today's youth understand and appreciate music...? Why is playing a video game so much more important...? Why is staring at what is called a 'phone' so entrancing...? I just don't get it in the same way they just don't get me. Maybe these youth's are not emotionally moved by minor keys the way I was...? Maybe they just don't hear how moving 7/8 is when played by Bill Bruford...? Maybe they just don't appreciate that shiver...???

[Haselsh1]

Then again; maybe it is just outright boredom with music. Let's face it, 1973, the birth of the synthesiser. The start of a whole new lifestyle of music. Exciting times. Now...? X Factor...!

[struth]

Think its just whats cool or whats popular; a bit like our time and our fathers. this is the year of the xbox and the mobile. Things might change again tho....scratch that; things will change again

[Tim]

Then again; maybe it is just outright boredom with music. Let's face it, 1973, the birth of the synthesiser. The start of a whole new lifestyle of music. Exciting times. Now...? X Factor...!I don't think it's boredom with music, just so much more available as entertainment these days, with a myriad of ways to enjoy it.

I was entralled to see a very young and very enthusiastic audience in The Borderline a few weeks ago for Lukas Nelson, now who's that familier with him here? One of the best gigs I've been to in 40 years.

It's still all there, maybe we just aren't seeing it as we don't mix in those circles anymore. I think there's never been so much live music available, way more than when I was a teenager and venues are packed, festivals too.

It's all about perception and how we interpret it, but if you don't do the same things anymore, doesn't mean it isn't there ;)

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[Haselsh1]

I go to a venue on the seafront in Cleethorpes in Lincolnshire called Moon On The Water quite frequently and the amount of live music they have there is amazing for this area. Most places around here are just full of meathead music but this particular venue has an amazing amount of variety from jazz to post punk. I love the place for its variety and the fact I take lots of photographs there. The place is often full of young people doing what I did back around 1977 so yes, they are there for the music. Yes, I also feel out of place. It is just as well that the place is run by people of my age. There are folk out there who still love music but I doubt they like hi-fi.

[Tim]

There are folk out there who still love music but I doubt they like hi-fi.
For sure, but living spaces have changed and it doesn't fit in so much these days.

Having said that I've been going to RSD for a number of years now and the lines get longer each time and it's not all old crustys now, it's youngsters, male and female. John Lewis and Tesco selling turntables, Sainsbury's with their own label?

That pendulum hasn't swing completely off the 'music matters' scale just yet.


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[Macca]

To be young and into hi fi you need the triple lock:

1)Love music
2)Have heard quality reproduction and want it for yourself
3)Have the money to do it

1 is no issue
2 is the biggest problem, not many hi-fis out there for them to encounter.
3 If they read the mags they'll ditch the idea right away because they will think just to buy a 'starter' amp is a thousand quid. Whereas we all know they could put something together for a ton second hand. But how to tell them that?

[Tim]

1, 2, 3 tick.

Agree with all of that, very succinctly put.

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[Minstrel SE]

To be young and into hi fi you need the triple lock:

1)Love music
2)Have heard quality reproduction and want it for yourself
3)Have the money to do it

1 is no issue
2 is the biggest problem, not many hi-fis out there for them to encounter.
3 If they read the mags they'll ditch the idea right away because they will think just to buy a 'starter' amp is a thousand quid. Whereas we all know they could put something together for a ton second hand. But how to tell them that?

Yeah I dont know about number three because I never had the money when I first started but I was always keen on putting something together. I read hi fi answers which gave source first advice on a budget.

Its the same for younger people now but they have more distractions. A lot of them seem to be buying the latest i phones but its probably a contract spread deal.

I was always excited by hi fi equipment to the point where the equipment became more important than the music which is dangerous behaviour :) I just got the bug for some reason. I used to love getting off on pictures of Nytech, Naim, The Linn Sondek Incatech Claymore and so on. It just always appealed to me.

I could have had more if I had done without other things. I was spending £700 on video 8 players so I had some money saved even on my low salary.

I like to think that the hipsters do see the retro beauty of a Nait 2 and a Sondek :)

[alphaGT]

I was always excited by hi fi equipment to the point where the equipment became more important than the music which is dangerous behaviour :) I just got the bug for some reason.:)

I’ll agree, when I was a young man, I was a carpenter, (i.e. no money) but I put aside money each year to buy one piece. It took me many years to get a decent system up, but I managed.

I recall reading a letter to the editor from some blow hard who owned some 12,000 record albums, and went so far to say that unless you had such a mega collection you had no business with a Hi-Fi setup. I wrote a rebuttal that was never printed, stating that if I had but one record that I loved to hear in the very best light possible, it was reason enough to invest in a Hi-Fi system. Which isn’t far from the truth. I’ve got about 500 albums now, and I can hardly think of a new one I want. As I tell my friends, I’m stuck in the 70’s. And when I set down in front of the stereo to listen, I never have a problem finding that special record I want to hear. So, many may say that my collection to system ratio is hardware heavy, and they’d be right.


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[Minstrel SE]

Yes I completely agree with you

I helped out in a basement full of half a million records or probably much more. We had no way of knowing as there was no inventory system. The chap was really a hoarder rather than a record dealer. He was a nice enough chap but he could have six copies of one record and wouldnt sell any of them. He was only keen to do them a tape of the record :) The stories about him charging to browse in his earlier shop are almost legendary in Manchester

https://i2-prod.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article11957563.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/EGP_MEN_RecordHouseClearance_290916_020JPG.jpg
http://http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/50000-rare-records-been-found-11956305 (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/50000-rare-records-been-found-11956305)

This is just a fraction of the records I saw shelved

He must have sold some but I never saw him sell anything. I would have preferred all those albums in the homes of enthusiasts but it was the 1990s and I dont think vinyl was in high demand. He was tending to buy it in batches with no real business plan of selling it again

The sad thing is that many of those records ended up in a skip or been given away in batches by the builders after a landlord dispute and court case over flooding and building maintenance.

The point is that was overwhelming to the point of extreme stress and worries over storage. I get musically overwhelmed with only a thousand or so albums. I will never get round to hearing just whats ripped on my computer.

There is a lot to be said for a online music library. If I suddenly want to get interested in Pere Ubu (for example) its easily accessible. The thought of damp basements with slim paths through ceiling high racks, gives me nightmares :)

Best wishes
Martin

[Macca]

, I’m stuck in the 70’s.

As long as you've got the '70s covered all the other decades are pretty much superfluous. Or at best an interesting diversion :)

[Lerxst]

Haha!

Vinyl was the only way of buying music really so there was no choice. Tapes were too fragile for me.

I did like the format and the artwork and lyrics. Gatefolds. My first album was Out of the Blue by ELO and I analysed all the artwork and lyrics. They were part of my youth.

Nostalgic? Yes. Let's face it though - they were/are easy to damage, were static and attracted dust. And a scratch could ruin the whole thing.

But is is the ultimate way of getting proper analogue music into a HiFi system, if done right.

It is a fashion now to an extent, a fad for the kids to be retro. At least, that's what I have seen (I'm the Grandad at work). I don't see them dying out though - there were too many made and decent gear to play them is still manufactured. Come on! Analogue, with no changes to the music has to be the best thing.

I have an album, one that was never actually made from a group called Maggie's Dream called Elysium. It is basically downloads from Youtube. I love this album and even if it is rubbish quality, I still listen to it quite often, so it is the music first for me. Give me a transistor radio over nothing at all.

Best is live music, preferably for me, in a localpub. Now, that IS dying out!

[alphaGT]

Haha!

Best is live music, preferably for me, in a localpub. Now, that IS dying out!

Yes I agree that live music is the way to go! When I was a teenager rock concerts were every other week, big shows! In large venues. I went to every one I could, went with friends to bands I wasn’t all that fond of.

But today things are different. Big shows cost a LOT to see, and the last few I’ve attended were not as much fun as I had remembered. But I have discovered that local bands, doing cover songs of all the great music of my childhood, now that’s entertainment! One can drink, and smoke, and stand or sit, yes music at the local club is the way to go for me! It seems to be a lot more fun than the large shows. Plus, most of the “popular”, musicians today have nothing I care to hear. And I’m sure not paying $150, to see it.


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[alphaGT]

As long as you've got the '70s covered all the other decades are pretty much superfluous. Or at best an interesting diversion :)

I may drift into the late 60’s, and into the early 80’s a bit, but the bulk of my collection is 70’s. And, a few surprises from the 90’s! Like STP, and Brother Cain.


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[Lerxst]

Plus, most of the “popular”, musicians today have nothing I care to hear. And I’m sure not paying $150, to see it.

I'll join you in the pub - It's my round

[alphaGT]

I'll join you in the pub - It's my round

[emoji2]


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[Pigmy Pony]

Seeing live bands doesn't have to be expensive-every summer, up and down the country, motorcycle clubs hold rallies always with live music, generally a mix of band you've heard of, tribute bands and local groups. Can't beat a sunny afternoon sat on the grass with a beer or whatever, and the weekend would cost around 20-40 quid and that includes camping! Pretty much self-policed, I've never seen any trouble, and at some of them you don't even need a bike!