View Full Version : Why do we do it!
You have a really good sounding system and you think.....hmmm what if I swapped that for that.......and the nightmare starts. I tri-amp my speakers and use all solid state amplification. Despite those that say "all amplifiers sound the same" there are subtle differences between the three that I am currently using.
I decided to change the orientation......Biiiiiigg mistake. I don't know about you but for me it is the undefinable stuff that makes up the final 5% of what you are hearing. You know when it is there and you know when it is not, why do we then bugger it all up and spend days/weeks/months trying to get it back.
You would think that simply going back to what was there in the first place would put it all right. My experience is that for whatever reason the undefinable disappears. Maybe I am just being too hyper and only believe that it does not sound like it did. Anyone else ready to enter the asylum:D
jandl100
31-10-2017, 08:31
Nope.
No asylum for me.
You have a really good sounding system and you think.....hmmm what if I swapped that for that.......
YES !! :thumbsup:
and the nightmare starts.
:scratch:
No, it's all good fun. :yay:
Onwards, ever onwards. :exactly:
Nope.
No asylum for me.
You're clearly not doing it properly:D
Firebottle
31-10-2017, 09:17
Jerry you are class :eyebrows: Having said that we all know you are in a minority but nothing against that.
The rest of us are already in the 'can it be bettered' asylum, along with Rob :thumbsup:
Just change one thing at a time, but in your case Rob that sounds rather complicated with three amps :mental:
Agreed that all amps sound slightly different, get around to more bake-offs so you can really get confused :)
All good fun, what's that expression 'When the fun stops STOP' :eyebrows:
I think in the case od SS amps there are now a good few that are so good as to be regarded as near perfect, but even then there are subtle differences.
I was given "infraction points", which "will be permanent", by Alan Shaw for asserting that I could hear a difference between an AVI S200MP pre, and an ATCSCA2 pre, and this was on the World At One pips, which sounds ridiculous.
My conclusion; The human ear despite its measured limitations, can be regarded as of a very high capacity in determining qualitative differences, this I argue a result of out survival mechanisms developing to detect mimicked events. (think 1500s skull duggery deceptions).
Psychologically we are also afraid of loss, and in our case losing the golden magic - the el dorado, or Nirvana, that we may be dismissing for another configuration. ('Oh, I'll never get that back' fear).
One of the difficulties is that we are dealing with a conduit which is supposed to be objective, transparent to what goes through it, but to convey some of the most emotionally loaded material involving great passions. What a conflation.
With every change we listen in an intense state of expectation rather than the casualty with which we ask ourselves, "Oh, did I wash up the coffee cups?", and this can cause misperception both positive and negative.
I am in that state ATM with new speakers, trying to pinpoint in the change what are the benefits and potentially losses.
What can we do, this is our cross to bear?.
jandl100
31-10-2017, 11:18
You just need to regard it as an exploration, a journey, rather than as a desperate scramble to reach an unreachable Nirvana.
Enjoy the vistas along the way, the discoveries, the new and the unexpected from the next curve in the road.
So it's not perfect? OK. But then, what is?
The rest of us are already in the 'can it be bettered' asylum, along with Rob :thumbsup:
Keep me out of it! ;)
Marco [a happy and contented puppy, for whom now it's all about the music].
You just need to regard it as an exploration, a journey...
Or, in the wrong hands, an ILLNESS [form of neurosis] ...
All journeys, however, eventually come to an end.....once one reaches one's destination.... So I guess the question is: where is your destination? ;)
Marco.
You would think that simply going back to what was there in the first place would put it all right. My experience is that for whatever reason the undefinable disappears.
Mine too. I stopped selling stuff altogether so that I could always go back and re-create previous set-ups. If you are a box swapper this means that kit starts piling up real quick. But it doesn't work and I have no idea why.
Or, in the wrong hands, an ILLNESS [form of neurosis] ...
All journeys, however, eventually come to an end.....once one reaches one's destination.... So I guess the question is: where is your destination? ;)
Marco.
just round the next bend:D
Mine too. I stopped selling stuff altogether so that I could always go back and re-create previous set-ups. If you are a box swapper this means that kit starts piling up real quick. But it doesn't work and I have no idea why.
Well, there can only be two logical explanations... Either, that in "going back to what was there in the first place", *something* [an influential criterion] was omitted from the equation. Or the lack of difference/improvement or not heard, originally or otherwise, was imagined.
And that possible 'something' (above) exists outside of simply the swapping back and forth of boxes or cables... And yet folks say things such as 'cable-dressing', and other subtle aspects of the set up of a system, are irrelevant ;)
Think again.....
Marco.
You are about to make an unscheduled stop.
In the Twilight Zone
:D
speedracer
31-10-2017, 12:35
Yes Marko but one man's journey is another man's illness. I would guess that when starting out in this hobby the majority of us avidly read all the magazines of the time trying to soak up as much information as possible, so information that was taken as gospel early on was poo-pooed as a reviewer trying to please a distributor with a good review when cynicism takes over as we age. How many times have we read that changing just one thing in a system, maybe a cartridge, can give us more attack (for example) in a drummer's rim shots but at the same time a slightly sloppy bass line (for example).
We are conditioned to think there is always a trade off, & no such thing as a "free lunch", yet we tinker in the hope of finding a never before found magic formula that elevates our system to the "perfect one".
just round the next bend:D
Haha... For some, it's indeed a case of going "round the bend"! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Haselsh1
31-10-2017, 12:52
My current sound system has put me in a place where I no longer feel the need for change. Apart from that very bottom octave which is missing now but wasn't last year, everything is fine with me. Since 1979 though it has been a very long journey to get where I am now.
Yes Marko but one man's journey is another man's illness.
Absolutely, Brook.
Here's the thing though... How many of us in this game think that we're "on a journey", and fully in control of our destination, when in fact we're out of control, going nowhere and suffering from a form of illness [neurosis] - whilst in the process simply emptying our bank accounts?
And crucially - how do you differentiate between both? ;)
For me, one look through the classifieds section on any hi-fi forum, identifying the regulars there, subsequently [and very ably] showcases the 'hi-fi victims', or those with 300-posts long Gallery threads, lol... Jerry's exempt from this, as he's quite clearly happy with and very good at what he does!
Marco.
How boring would it be if everyone just bought a system and was happy with it and stopped there?
Indeed... Let's not forget that I've been on my "journey" since 1982 (I didn't just 'arrive instantly' at where I am now) - but the "journey" had to end sometime, and somewhere!
That's the key point here: knowing when to 'get off the bus at the right stop', rather than continually on the road to nowhere... ;)
Marco.
There is always a scratch to itch with hifi. I think sometimes it's like music, we all like variety and don't just play the one record. I think this curiosity leads us to try different equipment as we can get bored with the sound we have. But on many occasions we end up with a system that sounds different and not necessarily better. Sometimes different can trick us into thinking we have moved to something better. The brain and ears can play tricks as I have recently found out.
I also think the journey is part of our interest in hifi and once hooked it's like a drug, you want more and more. Personally as much as I have a great interest in the subject I don't feel I need to change anything significant in my system as I feel through 35 years of messing I have arrived at a place I feel very comfortable with. A bit like a Buddhist finding Nirvana.:)
Now, if I want to go on a journey, i get on a train. The asylum is history.
walpurgis
31-10-2017, 14:42
Part of my journey is more or less over. I doubt I'll ever buy another pair of speakers.......................not ready made ones at least, unless it's something as a restoration project. In future I intend to buld my own speakers should I need any.
paulf-2007
31-10-2017, 14:58
I was certain my front horn set up with valves was it and then a failure at Scalford made me rethink my tri-amped set up. I sold most of it off, tried various box speakers and settled on the zu's with PX25 mono blocks. I had dismissed box speakers but these sound as good, maybe my memory of the horns is not so clear. Again I considered valves to be superior to ss as my experiences of ss guitar amps back in the seventies was that they were total garbage compared to valves. Then in a mad moment I bought a Sony receiver and loved it. I sold the PX25's without comparing them to the receiver and have remained contented, listening to music and not the kit. My only disappointment has been my headphone playback and so I've bought and await delivery of a little dot 1 headphone amp.
My only other itch is to build the lowther alerion speakers just to know if they are what I expect. The smaller lowther dx drivers are not shouty like the 8" drivers but have that transparency that not many drivers have. I don't believe there are many if at all any alerions in the uk as they were made by lowther America.
I also think the journey is part of our interest in hifi and once hooked it's like a drug, you want more and more. Personally as much as I have a great interest in the subject I don't feel I need to change anything significant in my system as I feel through 35 years of messing I have arrived at a place I feel very comfortable with.
Absolutely, Jim. It basically boils down to your ability to control the 'What if?' demon, and also I believe, if you suffer from having an addictive personality, which lends you to obsessing over and changing things, to the point of it becoming an addiction, controlling that, too.
Fancy taking the 'Top 10' test, to see if you're a 'Hi-fi Victim'? Ok, here it is... See how many of these you answer 'Yes' to:
1) Do you find yourself regularly (or constantly) browsing ebay and/or the classifieds sections of forums, 'just in case something interesting pops up'?
2) Do you have a Gallery thread here, many pages long, where it's mostly you posting, telling folks about something you've just bought/done to your system?
3) Are your posts here and/or elsewhere, about music-related subjects, dwarfed in number by your hi-fi related ones?
4) Have you started more threads on forums, outlining some problem or other with your system, as opposed to ones outlining how it's delighting you?
5) Overall so far, have you spent *significantly* more on hi-fi equipment and ancillaries than on music, whether in a downloaded, streamed or physical format?
6) Is your ratio of 'tinkering to listening' *significantly* biased towards tinkering?
7) Do you own more equipment that's currently sitting redundant, as opposed to being used regularly for its designed purpose?
8) Does your listening space resemble a hi-fi shop/museum/'workshop' more than simply a comfortable space to relax and enjoy music?
9) Do you buy hi-fi equipment under the premise of it being 'easy to move on', if necessary, as opposed enjoying it for as long as possible, regardless?
10) Does the cost of the hi-fi equipment/ancillaries you currently own *considerably* outweigh the cost [what you've paid, not current value] of your physical music collection?
Everyone here should have a go at this, and see how many 'yeses' they have! ;)
Marco.
The difference is that Geoff describes his system in his signature as if he's after a Pulitzer, and mine is more telephone directory plus the fact that I don't even mention that my system has a turntable.
Also that my two systems use the same brand of source and speakers, suggests I've finally made up my mind.
not really yes and no answers.
walpurgis
31-10-2017, 15:44
not really yes and no answers.
Maybe. :D
not really yes and no answers.
The key ones are! ;)
Marco.
walpurgis
31-10-2017, 15:49
I reckon my response to your questions is about 50/50 Marco. The equipment and the tinkering with it or the building of something are the hobby part for me. The music playing part of things being the enjoyable end product.
That's cool, Geoff, and I get that. However, I note that no-one has yet gone through the questions one by one, and responded (as closely as possible) in a 'Yes' way or otherwise... ;)
That's what I'm looking for, and essentially finding out how closely the content of the questions mirror your 'hi-fi habits'. Anyone fancy trying it? :)
Marco.
1) Do you find yourself regularly (or constantly) browsing ebay and/or the classifieds section of forums 'just in case something interesting pops up'? NO
2) Do you have a Gallery thread here with over 50 pages of input, where it's mostly you who's been doing the posting? NO
3) How often do you post here about music-related subjects, as opposed to hi-fi ones? 20%?
4) How many threads have you started here where the subject involves discussing some problem with your system, as opposed to how it's delighting you?
Not many
5) When listening to music, do you listen to albums all the way through, or simply select favourite tracks and/or ones that sound best, whilst ignoring the rest? always listen to the whole album
6) Is your ratio of 'tinkering to listening' heavily biased towards tinkering?
No
7) Do you own more equipment that's sitting redundant, as opposed to being used regularly for its designed purpose? yes
8) Does your listening space resemble a hi-fi shop/museum/'workshop' more than simply a comfortable space to relax and enjoy music? No
9) Do you buy hi-fi equipment mainly under the premise of it being 'easy to move on', should it not suit, as opposed to adopting a more considered and thorough approach? No
10) Does the cost of the hi-fi equipment/ancillaries you currently own VASTLY outweigh the cost [what you've paid, not current value] of your physical music collection? No
Nice one! So who's next? :)
Btw, I've altered question 2 and 9 slightly... Are they still no's?
Marco.
Firebottle
31-10-2017, 17:11
1) Do you find yourself regularly (or constantly) browsing ebay and/or the classifieds section of forums 'just in case something interesting pops up'?No
2) Do you have a Gallery thread here with many pages of input, where it's mostly you who's been doing the posting, telling folks about something new you've bought?No
3) How often do you post here about music-related subjects, as opposed to hi-fi ones?~10%
4) How many threads have you started here where the subject involves discussing some problem with your system, as opposed to how it's delighting you?Non I suppose because I fix the problem ;)
5) When listening to music, do you listen to albums all the way through, or simply select favourite tracks and/or ones that sound best, whilst ignoring the rest?All
6) Is your ratio of 'tinkering to listening' significantly biased towards tinkering?No
7) Do you own more equipment that's sitting redundant, as opposed to being used regularly for its designed purpose?Got to be a yes :ner:
8) Does your listening space resemble a hi-fi shop/museum/'workshop' more than simply a comfortable space to relax and enjoy music?No
9) Do you buy hi-fi equipment mainly under the premise of it being 'easy to move on', should it not suit, as opposed to adopting a more considered and thorough approach?No
10) Does the cost of the hi-fi equipment/ancillaries you currently own VASTLY outweigh the cost [what you've paid, not current value] of your physical music collection?No
Everyone here should have a go at this, and see how many 'yeses' they have! ;)
Marco.
OK, answers above.
dantheman91
31-10-2017, 17:24
1) Do you find yourself regularly (or constantly) browsing ebay and/or the classifieds section of forums 'just in case something interesting pops up - Yes
2) Do you have a Gallery thread here with many pages of input, where it's mostly you who's been doing the posting, telling folks about something new you've bought Yes
3) How often do you post here about music-related subjects, as opposed to hi-fi ones?~ 5%
4) How many threads have you started here where the subject involves discussing some problem with your system, as opposed to how it's delighting you? - Quite often if i cant fix myself
5) When listening to music, do you listen to albums all the way through, or simply select favourite tracks and/or ones that sound best, whilst ignoring the rest? All for Vinyl but tent to skip on CD's
6) Is your ratio of 'tinkering to listening' significantly biased towards tinkering? No
7) Do you own more equipment that's sitting redundant, as opposed to being used regularly for its designed purpose? Yes but slimming down quite a lot and just using stuff i want to keep in rotation
8) Does your listening space resemble a hi-fi shop/museum/'workshop' more than simply a comfortable space to relax and enjoy music? Yes
9) Do you buy hi-fi equipment mainly under the premise of it being 'easy to move on', should it not suit, as opposed to adopting a more considered and thorough approach? No
10) Does the cost of the hi-fi equipment/ancillaries you currently own VASTLY outweigh the cost [what you've paid, not current value] of your physical music collection? No
Interesting....
paulf-2007
31-10-2017, 17:41
1) Do you find yourself regularly (or constantly) browsing ebay and/or the classifieds section of forums 'just in case something interesting pops up'? NO
2) Do you have a Gallery thread here with over 50 pages of input, where it's mostly you who's been doing the posting? NO
3) How often do you post here about music-related subjects, as opposed to hi-fi ones? 20%?
4) How many threads have you started here where the subject involves discussing some problem with your system, as opposed to how it's delighting you?
Not many
5) When listening to music, do you listen to albums all the way through, or simply select favourite tracks and/or ones that sound best, whilst ignoring the rest? always listen to the whole album
6) Is your ratio of 'tinkering to listening' heavily biased towards tinkering?
No
7) Do you own more equipment that's sitting redundant, as opposed to being used regularly for its designed purpose? yes
8) Does your listening space resemble a hi-fi shop/museum/'workshop' more than simply a comfortable space to relax and enjoy music? No
9) Do you buy hi-fi equipment mainly under the premise of it being 'easy to move on', should it not suit, as opposed to adopting a more considered and thorough approach? No
10) Does the cost of the hi-fi equipment/ancillaries you currently own VASTLY outweigh the cost [what you've paid, not current value] of your physical music collection? Nosame answers as you except 5 and 10, so what does that mean
OK, answers above.
Cool. thanks. Of course, what also makes a difference is that you're a builder, so different 'rules' apply.
Marco.
Nice one! So who's next? :)
Btw, I've altered question 2 and 9 slightly... Are they still no's?
Marco.
I'd say they were still no's
same answers as you except 5 and 10, so what does that mean
Beats me. Ask Marco it's his quiz.
Lol... Largely just a bit of fun, with some 'reality check' thrown in for good measure! ;)
Marco.
1) Do you find yourself regularly (or constantly) browsing ebay and/or the classifieds section of forums 'just in case something interesting pops up'? Quite often
2) Do you have a Gallery thread here, many pages long, where it's mostly you posting, telling folks about something you've just bought/done to your system? No
3) Are your posts here and/or elsewhere, about music-related subjects, dwarfed in number by your hi-fi related ones? No
4) Have you started more threads on forums, outlining some problem or other with your system, as opposed to ones outlining how it's delighting you? No
5) Overall so far, have you spent *significantly* more on hi-fi equipment and ancillaries than on music, whether in a downloaded, streamed or physical format? Probably
6) Is your ratio of 'tinkering to listening' *significantly* biased towards tinkering? No
7) Do you own more equipment that's currently sitting redundant, as opposed to being used regularly for its designed purpose? Yes
8) Does your listening space resemble a hi-fi shop/museum/'workshop' more than simply a comfortable space to relax and enjoy music? The jury's out on that!
9) Do you buy hi-fi equipment under the premise of it being 'easy to move on', if necessary, as opposed enjoying it for as long as possible, regardless? No
10) Does the cost of the hi-fi equipment/ancillaries you currently own *considerably* outweigh the cost [what you've paid, not current value] of your physical music collection? Quite likely, yes
1) Do you find yourself regularly (or constantly) browsing ebay and/or the classifieds section of forums 'just in case something interesting pops up'? Occasionally
2) Do you have a Gallery thread here, many pages long, where it's mostly you posting, telling folks about something you've just bought/done to your system? No
3) Are your posts here and/or elsewhere, about music-related subjects, dwarfed in number by your hi-fi related ones? No
4) Have you started more threads on forums, outlining some problem or other with your system, as opposed to ones outlining how it's delighting you? No
5) Overall so far, have you spent *significantly* more on hi-fi equipment and ancillaries than on music, whether in a downloaded, streamed or physical format? Yes, I now have a fairly narrow taste in music I want to listen to and there is not a lot of it about
6) Is your ratio of 'tinkering to listening' *significantly* biased towards tinkering? No
7) Do you own more equipment that's currently sitting redundant, as opposed to being used regularly for its designed purpose? 70/30
8) Does your listening space resemble a hi-fi shop/museum/'workshop' more than simply a comfortable space to relax and enjoy music? Sort of because it is a purpose built soundproofed room and no one else goes in there
9) Do you buy hi-fi equipment under the premise of it being 'easy to move on', if necessary, as opposed enjoying it for as long as possible, regardless? No
10) Does the cost of the hi-fi equipment/ancillaries you currently own *considerably* outweigh the cost [what you've paid, not current value] of your physical music collection? Yes - see above
Spectral Morn
31-10-2017, 19:49
1) Do you find yourself regularly (or constantly) browsing ebay and/or the classifieds section of forums 'just in case something interesting pops up'? Yes
2) Do you have a Gallery thread here, many pages long, where it's mostly you posting, telling folks about something you've just bought/done to your system? No
3) Are your posts here and/or elsewhere, about music-related subjects, dwarfed in number by your hi-fi related ones? Not dwarfed but probably yes.
4) Have you started more threads on forums, outlining some problem or other with your system, as opposed to ones outlining how it's delighting you? No
5) Overall so far, have you spent *significantly* more on hi-fi equipment and ancillaries than on music, whether in a downloaded, streamed or physical format? Probably 50/50
6) Is your ratio of 'tinkering to listening' *significantly* biased towards tinkering? No
7) Do you own more equipment that's currently sitting redundant, as opposed to being used regularly for its designed purpose? No
8) Does your listening space resemble a hi-fi shop/museum/'workshop' more than simply a comfortable space to relax and enjoy music? Yes and No. Two listening spaces one living room, one a work/review space, where there is more kit sitting around than in use.
9) Do you buy hi-fi equipment under the premise of it being 'easy to move on', if necessary, as opposed enjoying it for as long as possible, regardless? No But I have bought the odd thing in the hope that if it doesn't fit I can sell it easily, which often hasn't been the case
10) Does the cost of the hi-fi equipment/ancillaries you currently own *considerably* outweigh the cost [what you've paid, not current value] of your physical music collection? No about 50/50 at a guess
speedracer
31-10-2017, 19:50
1) Do you find yourself regularly (or constantly) browsing ebay and/or the classifieds sections of forums, 'just in case something interesting pops up'? No.
2) Do you have a Gallery thread here, many pages long, where it's mostly you posting, telling folks about something you've just bought/done to your system? No
3) Are your posts here and/or elsewhere, about music-related subjects, dwarfed in number by your hi-fi related ones? No
4) Have you started more threads on forums, outlining some problem or other with your system, as opposed to ones outlining how it's delighting you? No
5) Overall so far, have you spent *significantly* more on hi-fi equipment and ancillaries than on music, whether in a downloaded, streamed or physical format? No.
6) Is your ratio of 'tinkering to listening' *significantly* biased towards tinkering? No.
7) Do you own more equipment that's currently sitting redundant, as opposed to being used regularly for its designed purpose? No.
8) Does your listening space resemble a hi-fi shop/museum/'workshop' more than simply a comfortable space to relax and enjoy music? No, SWMBO would have a fit.
9) Do you buy hi-fi equipment under the premise of it being 'easy to move on', if necessary, as opposed enjoying it for as long as possible, regardless? No.
10) Does the cost of the hi-fi equipment/ancillaries you currently own *considerably* outweigh the cost [what you've paid, not current value] of your physical music collection? No.
jandl100
31-10-2017, 20:18
Or, in the wrong hands, an ILLNESS [form of neurosis] ...
All journeys, however, eventually come to an end.....once one reaches one's destination.... So I guess the question is: where is your destination? ;)
Marco.
My journey's end ....
:deceased:
:lol:
Rather than answering, and no I'm not afraid to face the music, it would be interesting to hear a description of everyone's internal algorithms; the directing of energy towards their systems, what they expect to achieve or do with them and how they interact with them to achieve that.
Perhaps a little indulgently;
I have far more money invested in my system than in music, but I think I am very selective with music, and am looking for a very narrow range of (artistic) things within what is available, and from within many genres.
I don't post about music because that is an entirely personal thing related to sensitivity, sensibility, personal disposition, and personality, and being a bit weird I do not share many people's outlooks.
I browse Ebay occasionally, but to contemplate old models which have a pinnacled history of greatness, eg; HF 1300s.
My desire with improved sound quality is to get closer to the original creative act and extract the most I can from it rather than a fascination with what it does as a 'show off performance' as I have seen done by demonstrators at Hi-Fi shows. (abysmal art but vivacious ebullient effusive sounds).
Tweeking or tinkering for me is not an enjoyment, but a desire to optimise any piece of gear, eg., speaker cables to get the best from an amp, and I will modify to improve if I can, especially where corners are cut by manufacturers for cost reasons, eg internal speaker bracing.
Once a system is optimised, I may ask, do I want to go any further, but I am now so happy with what I have I am unlikely to change it.
This is the first time in my life when I have had some spare unused equipment, and I cannot contemplate having more than one system because I think all my resources should go into making one system the best it can be.
I do admit that my lounge is a little like Startrek's control desk.
Why do we do it?
I do it because it brings beauty into my life.
Why do we do it?
I DON'T anymore [emoji23]
Yes, but it's not about horizontal jogging, daftee... :bonk::bonk::nono::D
Marco.
My journey's end ....
:deceased:
:lol:
Yesh, it ends with your final system containing a big pair of Tannoys and a musical conversion to hip-hop! :D:eyebrows:
Marco.
jandl100
01-11-2017, 07:34
Yesh, it ends with your final system containing a big pair of Tannoys .... :D:eyebrows:
Marco.
Ah, a sad way to go. :(
Deaf and with terminal dementia.
:lolsign:
Yes, but it's not about horizontal jogging, daftee... :bonk::bonk::nono::D
Marco.
Doesn't matter what it's about mate. I don't do it no more
Spectral Morn
01-11-2017, 10:40
I have two systems because in a former life I did not always have the ability to listen to music in the best room when I wanted to. Shared space means compromising and allowing other folks time to use the living room, so I had a similar sounding set up in a smaller less ideal room for those times when the living room was not available to me. In my current life the two systems still exist but one is now more a work system for reviewing and the other less critical use, though it is in many ways as good as the review use set up.
I do have some spare kit as I didn't always move kit on and I did for awhile collect Marantz CD players. My EBay searches are usually me looking for the odd Marantz I would still like, and I hope for sensible prices not greedy crazy far eastern prices. I also collected tuners for awhile for a review project which might still be finished.... Someday.
Music I have a lot already thousand plus CDs, SACD etc and a similar amount of vinyl so I don't buy so much these days as I struggle to fin much new music to buy,though I do buy a fair bit of older music from time to time, stuff I didn't know about.
I have what I have to get closer to the music I love to listen to.
used to have 3 decent systems, but barely have one now although a few bits lying around. Going for convenience now although trying to keep quality as high as I can too. Digital is the way to go for this I think as you can do quite well for relatively little. When its your hobby I dont see any issue with having and trying lots of stuff as long as you can afford it
Indeed. No problem having and trying lots of stuff, *as long* as you have the basis of a system that you're happy with.
When that's not the case, however, and you're continually fretting about some aspect of your system that's not right, and trying to fix it with yet another 'new box', cable or whatever, it can be a rather unhappy place for your head to be...
Marco.
Indeed. No problem having and trying lots of stuff, *as long* as you have the basis of a system that you're happy with.
When that's not the case, however, and you're continually fretting about some aspect of your system that's not right, and trying to fix it with yet another 'new box', cable or whatever, it can be a rather unhappy place for your head to be...
Marco.
Agreed. get the system so your relatively happy and then try stuff if you must. if it doesnt work then move it on, not the rest of system to try and make it work;)
im at a point now where ive had enough of buying and just want to listen to the music instead of analyzing that cymbal thats coming up in a minute to hear how it sounds after tweaking!
im at a point now where ive had enough of buying and just want to listen to the music instead of analyzing that cymbal thats coming up in a minute to hear how it sounds after tweaking!
That works for me except when the cymbal arrives and it doesn't sound like a cymbal. Then I'm out buying again.
Although having said that latest incarnation of my lash up is not giving me that issue at all. Touch wood.
Idlewithnodrive
01-11-2017, 20:08
I may be odd but hey ho.
In terms of outlay, I have a Micky Mouse system, definitely more a stereo than a hi-fi :), but it connects me to the music in exactly the way I like and that'll do me.
See, I'm the absolute opposite from Jerry (JANDL100) in terms of what HiFi means to me. Jerry please feel to correct me if I'm wrong, but he enjoys the journey & having different perspectives on the music, the excitement of a new take, but it doesn't affect his love of the music. As for me a few years ago, I went too far, craved more and more, it stopped me loving the music... Eventually I managed to stop listening to the HiFi through a careful (and expensive!) rethink and setup of my entire system. Now I daren't touch it! I am listening to the music again, and not things like bass to midbass integration, phase response, grain, vocal sibilance, harmonic decays, and all the rest...
I cannot say that I am in a relaxed happiness mode, my new equipment now shows vocal recordings to be so widely differing that it is dismaying.
Also on broadcast material the changes in level even within one programme actually make me jump, but I'm hearing more than ever before, and thinking that it is just a cleaner window, or at least hoping it is.
I am listening to the music again, and not things like bass to midbass integration, phase response, grain, vocal sibilance, harmonic decays, and all the rest...
Indeed... Anyone who constantly listens in such a 'cerebral' and analytical way, has clearly taken the fun out of listening to music, by obsessing over 'hifi-isms' at the expense of forming an emotional connection with the music.
You have to get your head out of that 'analytical' zone and instead RELAX INTO the music as a whole, without 'intellectualising' [overthinking] the experience and fretting over specific aspects of the sound. Sometimes a way of achieving that is to temporarily abandon using your main (expensive) system, and instead listen to music on something upon which you place less sonic demands.
That's why you can often derive as much pleasure (sometimes more) from listening to music on something so basic as a portable radio, as you do on your main system - and also why after spending time listening on something like that, or indeed anything deemed as being sonically inferior, then return to your main system, you often appreciate how good it really is!
'Absence makes the heart grow fonder', and all that.... Essentially, the exercise can help refocus your priorities. I do that sometimes with my secondary (home cinema) system in the lounge.
It's an approach that does seem to crystallise the fact that listening to music should, above all else, be FUN, and not taking things too seriously, lest you suck the enjoyment out of the whole experience, and turn it into a mundane 'test', rather than one of life's simple but very worthwhile pleasures! :)
Marco.
jandl100
02-11-2017, 07:21
See, I'm the absolute opposite from Jerry (JANDL100) in terms of what HiFi means to me. Jerry please feel to correct me if I'm wrong, but he enjoys the journey & having different perspectives on the music, the excitement of a new take, but it doesn't affect his love of the music.
Exactly and precisely correct, Neil. :thumbsup:
Yorkshireman
02-11-2017, 09:08
1) Do you find yourself regularly (or constantly) browsing ebay and/or the classifieds sections of forums, 'just in case something interesting pops up'? NO
2) Do you have a Gallery thread here, many pages long, where it's mostly you posting, telling folks about something you've just bought/done to your system? YES
3) Are your posts here and/or elsewhere, about music-related subjects, dwarfed in number by your hi-fi related ones? YES
4) Have you started more threads on forums, outlining some problem or other with your system, as opposed to ones outlining how it's delighting you? NO
5) Overall so far, have you spent *significantly* more on hi-fi equipment and ancillaries than on music, whether in a downloaded, streamed or physical format? NO
6) Is your ratio of 'tinkering to listening' *significantly* biased towards tinkering? NO
7) Do you own more equipment that's currently sitting redundant, as opposed to being used regularly for its designed purpose? NO
8) Does your listening space resemble a hi-fi shop/museum/'workshop' more than simply a comfortable space to relax and enjoy music? NO
9) Do you buy hi-fi equipment under the premise of it being 'easy to move on', if necessary, as opposed enjoying it for as long as possible, regardless? NO
10) Does the cost of the hi-fi equipment/ancillaries you currently own *considerably* outweigh the cost [what you've paid, not current value] of your physical music collection? NO
Questions done
I think that what we have is two different listening modes, which correlate with different architectures in the brain.
In conversation we are emotionally involved, receptive to all that is being experienced, but we may shift, especially in conversation with someone in business, perhaps a salesman, to analysing his words and body language to ascertain his genuineness and veracity.
The former is by definition emotionally rooted, it is the natural instinct experiencing the world from a naturally integrated survival perspective, but the latter is a very analytical mode, which tries to validate and verify, seeking flaws in the presentation.
For me, often music has its impact when I am not concentrating, but analysing is necessary as a sound engineer or a Hi-Fi perfectionist, and the two are in essence mutually exclusive to a large extent IMO, so all we have to do is control which mode we are using.
I've reached the conclusion that what I have sought in hifi clearly relates to some unresolved childhood issue of seeking soothing or maybe it was just the drugs!
So, when I bought that 1st system back in the mid 80s the context was that I was 22yrs old and in the middle of a grieving process of having lost my 1st love, smoking heavy amounts of weed and feeling very melancholic. No wonder the system sounded so good LOL...
Anyway, sold it and nothing for a long time ever sounded so good.
Forward the tape, following lots of box swapping. I'm now ancient, married, settled and more together than I ever was and apart from obvious mismatches of gear seem more accepting of my gear and able to listen to the music.
Having said that though, I'm currently in the market for a new set of speakers :lol:
paulf-2007
02-11-2017, 20:16
Rather than answering, and no I'm not afraid to face the music, it would be interesting to hear a description of everyone's internal algorithms; the directing of energy towards their systems, what they expect to achieve or do with them and how they interact with them to achieve that.
Perhaps a little indulgently;
I have far more money invested in my system than in music, but I think I am very selective with music, and am looking for a very narrow range of (artistic) things within what is available, and from within many genres.
I don't post about music because that is an entirely personal thing related to sensitivity, sensibility, personal disposition, and personality, and being a bit weird I do not share many people's outlooks.
I browse Ebay occasionally, but to contemplate old models which have a pinnacled history of greatness, eg; HF 1300s.
My desire with improved sound quality is to get closer to the original creative act and extract the most I can from it rather than a fascination with what it does as a 'show off performance' as I have seen done by demonstrators at Hi-Fi shows. (abysmal art but vivacious ebullient effusive sounds).
Tweeking or tinkering for me is not an enjoyment, but a desire to optimise any piece of gear, eg., speaker cables to get the best from an amp, and I will modify to improve if I can, especially where corners are cut by manufacturers for cost reasons, eg internal speaker bracing.
Once a system is optimised, I may ask, do I want to go any further, but I am now so happy with what I have I am unlikely to change it.
This is the first time in my life when I have had some spare unused equipment, and I cannot contemplate having more than one system because I think all my resources should go into making one system the best it can be.
I do admit that my lounge is a little like Startrek's control desk.same here, not much spent on music compared to the kit. I know what I like and am happy to listen to what I have. I do also listen to Spotify regularly, that's a £10/month investment. I know people with thousands of lp's but they rarely listen to more than a few. They have more music than time.
A very interesting thread and great to read the answers to those 10 questions Marco, very well considered I might add.
Very easy for me to answer too, it's a firm NO to all ten, especially the ratio of music cost to equipment and listening to music rather than tinkering.
I reckon Macca can answer the "does my room look a hi-fi shop/museum/workshop" question :eyebrows:
Good thread.
I know people with thousands of lp's but they rarely listen to more than a few. They have more music than time.
I've never really understood why people have enormously large music collections, and by large I mean much more than 2,000 titles. I have about 1,000 LPs and over a 1,000 CDs, with some duplications. Not that large a collection compared to some, but even so, I forget what I do have and need to thin it down. Being retired I can play my system for five or more hours a day when I am at home, but there are many titles in my collection that haven't seen a TT for a long time.
The only thing I do like to duplicate is classical works as performed by different conductors and orchestras.
I found I enjoyed records more when I had less albums oddly. or is it? anyway I have already reduced my collection by 50%, and still have too many. CD's I have too many too I guess although dont know how many. I gave a pile away a number of years ago to a mate who was going through hard times. set him up with a system too. no loss what a friend gets.
I've never really understood why people have enormously large music collections, and by large I mean much more than 2,000 titles.
For me Barry it's that I've never stopped buying or discovering music since I started over 40 years ago and they mount up. The older I get the wider my love for differing music gets too. However, with a really good music server and Spotify, the rate I buy at has slowed somewhat in the last few years.
I guess too as I enjoy and follow a large number of artists who are still actively touring, recording and releasing music, then it's inevitable it's going to continue.
I don't understand people who have lots of equipment either - you can only listen to one system at a time right?
Suum cuique ;)
I still try to keep up with developments in music of all genres. This is done through listening to 'Later' with Jools Holland, or 'Late Junction' on Radio 3. But the number of new artist(e)s that impress me and make me want to hear more are sadly few and far between. I'm much more likely to 'fill in the gaps' in my collection of works by artist(e)s I enjoyed in my youth, be it folk, jazz, pop or rock 'n' roll.
A very interesting thread and great to read the answers to those 10 questions Marco, very well considered I might add.
Very easy for me to answer too, it's a firm NO to all ten, especially the ratio of music cost to equipment and listening to music rather than tinkering.
I reckon Macca can answer the "does my room look a hi-fi shop/museum/workshop" question :eyebrows:
Good thread.
Yo Timbo, good to see popping in again. Hope you're well :)
Yup, it's a good thread. Rob has a knack sometimes of starting thought-provoking ones! Glad you liked the questions I posed. They were indeed carefully considered.
I know all too well, and thus can identify, the telltale traits of 'hi-fi victim', partly because some of them used to apply to me, and also because of observing the behaviour on forums (over many years) of folks who almost certainly qualify as such, but won't admit it in public, perhaps because they haven't yet admitted it to *themselves*...
Like you, I'm also a firm 'No' to all of the questions, and in a much happier place now for it.
I posed the questions hopefully to make some folks who unfortunately suffer from this affliction to stop and think, examine their situation (and lives), and be honest with themselves - and if they're NOT happy about it, hopefully do something to 'stop the rot', before it gets any worse! ;)
Marco.
For me Barry it's that I've never stopped buying or discovering music since I started over 40 years ago and they mount up. The older I get the wider my love for differing music gets too. However, with a really good music server and Spotify, the rate I buy at has slowed somewhat in the last few years.
Yup, that also applies to me, especially the bit in bold, although I don't really do Spotify. Somehow I just don't 'connect' with the whole experience.
I discover new music/artists in various ways, sometimes by reading magazines (Mojo, Melody Maker, etc), listening to the radio, reading the music sections of forums such as this, and also going along to local music venues, such as William Aston Hall and Central Station, in Wrexham, where both established artists and local bands play (as well as symphony orchestras, in the case of the former) - and some of the up and coming talent around can be fantastic.
But you won't discover this stuff unless you get off your butt and check out the local scene near you, and attend some gigs... TV or radio is unlikely to bring it to you. Ultimately, the limits of your musical horizons are governed by the extent of your laziness, thinking or otherwise! ;)
I also regularly visit independent record shops (some local), but mainly in nearby towns and cities, chat to the guys there and ask them to play stuff on the shop system (mainly on vinyl) that they recommend, which I've never heard of and mostly wouldn't have considered otherwise, thus pushing myself out of my comfort zone and broadening my musical horizons - and I've picked up loads of great (and obscure) stuff that way, of all sorts of genres.
However, one of the main ways I discover new music now is through streaming. I'm lucky to have friends who are into music as much as me, and are members of (paid for) download sites, so they share new titles with me, which are stored onto my (ever-increasing) number of hard-drives. Consequently, I now have access to over 10TB of music files!
No idea how many albums that represents, maybe 25,000? You might have a better idea than me, and it's being added to all the time, which is why I'm often up until 3am listening to it all! In that respect, it certainly helps with not having to get up early in the morning for work! :eyebrows:
I also have very diverse tastes in music, and so apart from still loving all the 70s and 80s music I grew up with, and all the 'usual candidates' (rock, blues, etc), which is played regularly, I listen to indie and electronic/ambient music, some of which is pretty obscure, and in my older age have also got into classical and jazz music - stuff I'd never have entertained in my youth, and I'm loving it!
I don't understand people who have lots of equipment either - you can only listen to one system at a time right?
Me neither, *unless* it's used regularly in some way. I certainly get the idea of having different kit, to build different systems, say vintage and modern, and perhaps for optimising specific genres of music, but for that to work for me, it'd have to be permanently set up as part of a working system, maybe for use in different rooms.
Otherwise, I simply don't see the point of having hordes of unused gear lying around (and often significant sums of money tied up in it), as for one thing I couldn't abide the clutter!! Like you, I can be a bit of a 'Captain Tidy', but each to his or her own :cool:
Marco.
UPDATE:
I have some of the magic back! My OB's have a total of 5 drive units per side driven by 3 amps. One of the amps drives a pair of GLL Inductive Coupling Technology units. I assumed that the L&R were working as I could hear that they were powered up (without music playing), but once you start playing music all the other units come into play. It wasn't until yesterday that my brain sprang to life and I tried them on their own.....a genius move don't you think. Turns out that the R channel interconnect had a fault and it there was no music coming out. Changed the leads and bingo. Not much fun getting old is it.......
UPDATE:
I have some of the magic back! My OB's have a total of 5 drive units per side driven by 3 amps. One of the amps drives a pair of GLL Inductive Coupling Technology units. I assumed that the L&R were working as I could hear that they were powered up (without music playing), but once you start playing music all the other units come into play. It wasn't until yesterday that my brain sprang to life and I tried them on their own.....a genius move don't you think. Turns out that the R channel interconnect had a fault and it there was no music coming out. Changed the leads and bingo. Not much fun getting old is it.......
Funnily I had similar when Gary and Brian were here a while ago. One of my monos was showing a poor output and it turned out to be a cracked plug
jandl100
03-11-2017, 10:38
My turn ....
1) Do you find yourself regularly (or constantly) browsing ebay and/or the classifieds sections of forums, 'just in case something interesting pops up'?
Yes. It's great fun.
2) Do you have a Gallery thread here, many pages long, where it's mostly you posting, telling folks about something you've just bought/done to your system?
Yes. I enjoy it and other folks seem interested in my hifi journey and thoughts on it. Some interesting discussions have ensued as well, I think.
3) Are your posts here and/or elsewhere, about music-related subjects, dwarfed in number by your hi-fi related ones?
Yes. Mostly hifi - but there are relatively few to share my classical musical enthusiasms with to the depth that I have ventured over 40+ years of obsession with the genre. :)
4) Have you started more threads on forums, outlining some problem or other with your system, as opposed to ones outlining how it's delighting you?
No.
5) Overall so far, have you spent *significantly* more on hi-fi equipment and ancillaries than on music, whether in a downloaded, streamed or physical format?
Yes.
But I think that is just fine.
To take it to its extreme, I think it is perfectly justifiable to drop substantial £amounts on hifi gear in order to play your one and only recording to your satisfaction.
It's not about quantity it's about quality.
6) Is your ratio of 'tinkering to listening' *significantly* biased towards tinkering?
No.
7) Do you own more equipment that's currently sitting redundant, as opposed to being used regularly for its designed purpose?
No.
Sort of.
I have developed the tendency to retain 'older' gear that I particularly enjoyed so I can go back to it after a while. For example, I currently have 4 amps that I regard as being an active part of my system, and will likely be brought back into use.
8) Does your listening space resemble a hi-fi shop/museum/'workshop' more than simply a comfortable space to relax and enjoy music?
No.
Well, I don't think so - there is a lot of gear around, including some lovely vintage gems bought just for decoration.
Yes, OK, maybe it does. :lol: But oi loikes it that way. :) I have my own listening room, so nutz to anyone who doesn't approve! :ner:
9) Do you buy hi-fi equipment under the premise of it being 'easy to move on', if necessary, as opposed enjoying it for as long as possible, regardless?
Yes, on the whole.
10) Does the cost of the hi-fi equipment/ancillaries you currently own *considerably* outweigh the cost [what you've paid, not current value] of your physical music collection?
No.
It used to be about equal, but with the advent of streaming I have downsized my physical music collection which I regard largely as a backup.
:)
To take it to its extreme, I think it is perfectly justifiable to drop substantial £amounts on hifi gear in order to play your one and only recording to your satisfaction.
It's not about quantity it's about quality.
Indeed, but if you only own one recording, then you can hardly call yourself a music lover. You're merely a lover of one recording.
Marco.
Not true. You can be a music lover and own no recordings whatsoever.
Otherwise, prior to the 20th century, it would be impossible to love music.
Louis Armstrong was one of the first Audiophiles... not a lot of folk know that :lol:
Not true. You can be a music lover and own no recordings whatsoever.
Otherwise, prior to the 20th century, it would be impossible to love music.
Yes, but I'm talking about listening to music being reproduced on some sort of mechanical or electrical device.
Marco.
Yes, but I'm talking about listening to music being reproduced on some sort of mechanical or electrical device.
Marco.
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....ultimate pleasure:lol:
Is that what the wife told you? :eyebrows:
Marco.
paulf-2007
03-11-2017, 19:22
For me Barry it's that I've never stopped buying or discovering music since I started over 40 years ago and they mount up. The older I get the wider my love for differing music gets too. However, with a really good music server and Spotify, the rate I buy at has slowed somewhat in the last few years.
I guess too as I enjoy and follow a large number of artists who are still actively touring, recording and releasing music, then it's inevitable it's going to continue.
I don't understand people who have lots of equipment either - you can only listen to one system at a time right?
Suum cuique ;)true, but I have my dedicated treated room in the garden and my more modest office system that I use whenever I am invoicing and other mundane office stuff. Other than that I only have a valve amp I won't ever sell and some speakers and project parts. Each to his own.
true, but I have my dedicated treated room in the garden...
Is that where she kicks you out to, lol? ;)
Marco.
Yo Timbo, good to see popping in again. Hope you're well
Marco.
I am thanks, especially since getting all my gear out of storage last week and firing up some toons! I've been living with a Bluetooth speaker since May and it's like a breath of fresh air to have a file server going again. To top that, the people I shared a house with after coming back from China, didn't really have any interest in music and don't even have a stereo or even a single CD. Just not something they do, so I was a little starved musically, great people though and they treated me like family.
Actually a good test to see what really matters, the music or the system? Well for me it's both, I can (just about) live without a Hi-Fi but it's not pleasant and I had to go to even more live shows to compensate. However I'm still content not swapping and changing stuff around, so I'm near my journeys end, but not quite as I have another house move in the new year. I will (finally) be getting a TT soon, as I've been buying a fair bit of vinyl at gigs. Nothing fancy, probably a Rega or Michell TechnoDec as I have a Michell TechnoArm.
Good to be back in the land of music though - my play rate on Last.fm has gone through the roof over the last few days :)
Good to hear you're well, mate :)
Yeah, I know what you mean. It's not good being made to go 'cold turkey' on access to a decent system, or spending a significant amount of time in the company of folk who aren't into music!
It'll be good when you finally get a chance to listen to some vinyl. In terms of T/T, I'd go for the Michell, as it's better engineered, and so I think it'll appeal to you more, both visually and sonically. If you could stretch to a Gyro though, even better!
Don't know how you can handle so many house moves, as all the upheaval would seriously do my head in, but I'm sure it'll be worth it in the end :cool:
Marco.
Haha, I worked it out the other day, that was move number 36 in my lifetime. I'm planning on the next being the final one, then I can throw away the boxes, buy another pair of Harbeths and set up everything for good, time to set down some roots and know where everything is!
I have considered a Gyro, but I'm not really sure I can justify the outlay as playing LPs (and please don't anyone take this the wrong way) will be more a novelty than serious listening for me. Also a bit of nostalgia playing records from my youth, which haven't seen a turntable in decades. It probably will be the Michell, but I need to consider how much use it's likely to get? And you are bang on, it is much more visually appealing to me than the Rega as well as being a better performer, but I do quite like the minimalist lines of Rega decks.
Despite what people may think, I've nothing against vinyl, all music is good, I'm just lazy and really enjoy relaxing and listening without having to get up - I'll cue two or three albums at a time, turn down the lights and float away, I still don't have a TV so it's my main entertainment. I also have a low tolerance threshold for any sort of click or pop. I know you can do a lot to alleviate that, but that's another investment in both time and money ;)
When I realised I was trying to get my vinyl to sound like my CDs that's when I gave up with it. Just too much money required. Easier just to buy the CD.
When I realised I was trying to get my vinyl to sound like my CDs that's when I gave up with it. Just too much money required. Easier just to buy the CD.
Can't argue with that logic. Similar story with my file server, it was cheaper than buying a new CDP, but sounded better so the CDP went. I still buy 90% CDs though, much prefer that to a download.
Having said all that, I do buy downloads and vinyl too - some things can only be sourced on each format. It annoys me when you can only buy a download though, especially if it's just a lossy file :(
Haha, I worked it out the other day, that was move number 36 in my lifetime.
36? Bloody hell... I've had 3, which is more than enough!! We've got *so* much stuff now in this house, accumulated over the years, that the thought of transferring it all to somewhere else would fill me with dread.... :eek: :nono:
I have considered a Gyro, but I'm not really sure I can justify the outlay as playing LPs (and please don't anyone take this the wrong way) will be more a novelty than serious listening for me.
Lol, you say that, but trust me, many other 'digiphiles' have said similar things, after taking the plunge into the 'dark side'... Then find that they can't stop listening to vinyl, and the entry-level turntable that they thought would 'do', soon gets replaced with something better! ;)
Just something for you to think about, as if you can stretch to a Gyro, a) it'll look even sexier (which I know is a consideration for you), and b) sonically, it'll TROUNCE a 'dec', and it'd be a shame to waste money on something that won't do the job for you in the long term.
Far better to get it RIGHT first time, put it to bed, and then concentrate on just enjoying the music :cool:
Marco.
I wouldn't recommend a belt drive deck to someone who is used to digital.
When I realised I was trying to get my vinyl to sound like my CDs that's when I gave up with it. Just too much money required. Easier just to buy the CD.
Lol, I know what you mean, as I don't like vinyl replay that sounds 'warm & cuddly', full of coloration associated with the process, when not done right. I like it to sound like digital, done well, and for it to be as stable and (almost as quiet). I think you'll agree my Techy does that, but still sounds enjoyably 'musical'.
However, there are ways and means to achieve what you want from vinyl, without spending megabucks, and all it'd take in your instance is fitting a better arm and cartridge to your turntable. You can only take things so far with budget arms and moving magnet cartridges.
If you fancy going there at some point, let me know, and I can advise accordingly :)
Marco.
I wouldn't recommend a belt drive deck to someone who is used to digital.
Yeah I know, but different rules apply here with Timbo. Doubt he'd like the look of most DDs... Besides, trust me, a well-sorted Gyro can sound rather 'digital-like', but in a good way! :)
Marco.
Lol, I know what you mean, as I don't like vinyl replay that sounds 'warm & cuddly', full of coloration associated with the process when not done right. I like it to sound like digital replay, done well, and for it to be as stable and (almost as quiet). I think you'll agree my Techy does that.
However, there are ways and means to achieve what you want from vinyl, without spending megabucks, and all it'd take in your instance is fitting a better arm and cartridge to your turntable. If you fancy going there at some point, let me know, and I can advise accordingly :)
Marco.
I was talking about the speed stability. I know some people don't notice it but it was quite marked for me going from a Systemdek to a Technics SL1200.
As far as my deck is concerned I know an arm upgrade would be a big step up. But I don't even have a phono stage at the moment! And I would want something of the quality level of a Paradise, and it is just too much money to spend.
But I don't even have a phono stage at the moment! And I would want something of the quality level of a Paradise, and it is just too much money to spend.
What happened to the Firebottle?
You'd have to sort that out, but you certainly wouldn't need to spend megabucks. Trust me, I could make that Techy of yours blow your digital sources into the weeds, with no more than a £2k outlay IN TOTAL (arm, cartridge and phono stage)! ;)
Marco.
What happened to the Firebottle?
Marco.
I swapped it for the Sony X505ES.
£2K is megabucks for me. I do have £2.5K set aside, but that is earmarked for some 'final' speakers and then that is going to be me done; unless my ship comes in.
Ok, no worries... Thought you were a bit more flush than that. No chance of ever sorting your kitchen out, then?
Marco.
I was talking about the speed stability.
That is something I have thought about Martin, especially with the Rega. I'm not entirely sure I would notice it that much though? I shouldn't have sold my SL1200 before I went to China.
Speed stability is a consideration, but only if you're particularly sensitive to it. Also, it depends how serious you want to start getting into things.
If you simply want a turntable to be, as you say, a "novelty", and very much play second fiddle to your digital sources, then you can't realistically obsess over a bit of wow and flutter... ;)
Marco.
If you simply want a turntable to be, as you say, a "novelty", and very much play second fiddle to your digital sources, then you can't realistically obsess over a bit of wow and flutter... ;)
That for me is pretty much bang on, I stopped obsessing over Hi-Fi sometime ago now and to be honest the last TT I actually used regularly was an Ariston Q Deck in the mid 80s, so I don't have a current reference point to compare with or be critical against. As I'm not a box swapper I'm unlikely to know or worry about what it compares to. I'm going to buy it, set it up, play records and forget it other than replacing the cartridge/stylus.
Happy days :)
Ok, no worries... Thought you were a bit more flush than that. No chance of ever sorting your kitchen out, then?
Marco.
I've got the money set aside to do that too. Mainly because I've never done any mad spending on the hi-fi ;)
As far as Tim's TT goes, it's one thing to say it is only a secondary source, but if it isn't at least comparable to the digital side he is going to end up not using it = total waste of money.
Yeah, on that I do agree. But I also get the feeling that Tim will be able to 'listen through' that and simply enjoy the music (and his records) for what they are.
Marco.
That's what I thought I would do but I was wrong. I am quite fussy though.
I've got the money set aside to do that too. Mainly because I've never done any mad spending on the hi-fi...
Well, since that project seems rather a long way off, because as you've said you can't be doing with the upheaval, couldn't you divert some of the dosh to fund what I suggested with your turntable?
Honestly, you wouldn't regret it... Because at the moment, what you're saying would happen to Tim with his T/T, in his system (not being used because of being outperformed by digital sources), is currently happening in yours...
Therefore, you need to level the playing field in that respect, by following your own (good) advice! ;)
Marco.
Well, since that project seems rather a long way off, because as you've said you can't be doing with the upheaval, couldn't you divert some of the dosh to fund what I suggested with your turntable?
.
I could but I'm not going to. Even though it is very tempting. All the vinyl and all the turntables and the RCM are going to get sold at some point, when I can bring myself to do it. I'm well into the process of replacing the records I used to play often with the CD version. Then it's adios to vinyl.
. . . Tim will be able to 'listen through' that and simply enjoy the music (and his records) for what they are.
:cool:
In fact I'll be very surprised if that wasn't the case, I don't hear Hi-Fi any more, I just hear the music. It has to be half decent for sure, but I know how to achieve that now and I know what I like. My best mate has a Funk LSD TT and we both enjoy that, but we aren't listening to it or comparing it to anything, we are listening to lyrics and the structure of the song. Some here might find that an odd concept, but I've never claimed to be an audiophile.
I just enjoy good music, again an odd concept to many here as I love Country, Americana and female vocal, but I've always happily admitted to being a little odd ;)
I could but I'm not going to. Even though it is very tempting. All the vinyl and all the turntables and the RCM are going to get sold at some point, when I can bring myself to do it. I'm well into the process of replacing the records I used to play often with the CD version. Then it's adios to vinyl.
Fair enough, if that's what you want, but I think it's a mistake and something later on you'd regret.
Marco.
But that wow on piano tone isn't part of the music. You can't be using speakers that cost what? £4K? and claim you are not into hi-fi. We get into hi-fi because we love the music, not despite it!
Not sure if that's me Macca re speakers, but I'm using Monitor Audio Bronze 2's at the moment and they are hitting the spot. I sold the Harbeths before I moved to China. I do plan to get some more one day (maybe) as the midrange suits female voices so well and that's a lot of what I listen to. I do dispute that I'm into Hi-Fi though, I enjoy it because of what it does, but I'm not into it - I personally think there's a difference.
I know you'll do what you are going to do, but the biggest musical regret I have is selling a large proportion of my records in the 80s. Lots of memories attached to a lot of those, especially Eagles 'On the Border' and that's all I'm saying :)
walpurgis
04-11-2017, 14:45
I sold the Harbeths before I moved to China. I do plan to get some more one day (maybe) as the midrange suits female voices so well and that's a lot of what I listen to.
I find female vocals stunning through my Tannoys. The lucidity is really striking.
Not sure if that's me Macca re speakers, but I'm using Monitor Audio Bronze 2's at the moment and they are hitting the spot. I sold the Harbeths before I moved to China. I do plan to get some more one day (maybe) as the midrange suits female voices so well and that's a lot of what I listen to. I do dispute that I'm into Hi-Fi though, I enjoy it because of what it does, but I'm not into it - I personally think there's a difference.
I know you'll do what you are going to do, but the biggest musical regret I have is selling a large proportion of my records in the 80s. Lots of memories attached to a lot of those, especially Eagles 'On the Border' and that's all I'm saying :)
Did not realise you sold the Harbeths. Anyway they still count ;)
But I know what you mean. Plenty of people with performance cars that are not actually into cars and have never watched an episode of Wheeler Dealers. They'd still grumble if you swapped it out on them for a Vauxhall Corsa though.
I will not sell all my records, there are a few I could not part with for 'sentimental' reasons, similar to yours I suspect.
Firebottle
04-11-2017, 18:53
Martin, before you pull the plug on vinyl I'd like to lend you my OTP Mk2 phono stage.
See how you get on with it and decide afterwards. (It's cheaper than the valve firebottle stage ;))
:)
Thanks Alan, I will be happy to try it.
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