Decca Blue

[Bigman80]

Got this on loan for a little while (Thanks Jimbo) any idea which wire goes where?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171028/98ceeae143d704b50719d3beaa9892e8.jpg

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[Jimbo]

I found this Oli, just scroll through and you will see a nice diagram

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=83129&start=30

[brian2957]

This could prove expensive for you Oliver :)

[Bigman80]

Cheers Jim,


Yes Brian, I fear the worst lol

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[Bigman80]

I'll let it warm up for half hour.

Tracking at 2.6g. Any further suggestions?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171028/61198a65a03be3933df94793e24a4963.jpg

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[walpurgis]

Like this.

http://i66.tinypic.com/eqdsap.jpg

Or, if that one has the three pin connector, leave the blue or green unused and not touching anything else.

[walpurgis]

I've had a handful of Decca London Blue's. You'll definitely find it 'different' to the R50 Bloom!

[walpurgis]

I'll let it warm up for half hour.

They don't warm up. Apart from the tiny damping pad, there's nothing to warm up.

[Bigman80]

They don't warm up. Apart from the tiny damping pad, there's nothing to warm up.No, the amps and Phonostage. Not the cartridge!! [emoji23]

Well it's certainly different

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[Jimbo]

Blue tak:)

[Bigman80]

Blue tak:)Ah! Yes. I'll get on that.

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[walpurgis]

Blue tak:)

If you're talking about the old dodge of putting a bit of BluTak between the headshell and top of the cartridge to stop it resonating, only use a small blob, about the size of a pea, otherwise it will try to push the cartridge off the mount. (been there, done it many times :))

[karma67]

:partytime:

[Jimbo]

If you're talking about the old dodge of putting a bit of BluTak between the headshell and top of the cartridge to stop it resonating, only use a small blob, about the size of a pea, otherwise it will try to push the cartridge off the mount. (been there, done it many times :))

:thumbsup::cool:

[Bigman80]

Well, I must not have set it up right because anything that should be don't and centre (vocals, lead guitar) all sound like they are in an echo chamber and two relooms behind everything else. I'm gonna seek the help of my arm and table guru I think

Luckily he's bringing me an updated power supply for my my SP10 soon so I'll get his expertise on it.

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[Bigman80]

Like this.

http://i66.tinypic.com/eqdsap.jpg

Or, if that one has the three pin connector, leave the blue or green unused and not touching anything else.Cheers Geoff. I guessed in the end as I hadn't seen this pic lol

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[Bigman80]

Moved the cart back in the headshell to the next holes for a trail and a great improvement.

There is magic in this thing, just need to do it out.

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[karma67]

did you not have it aligned then? :scratch:

[walpurgis]

I always felt happiest with the Blue tracking at the recommended 3 grams and it seemed happiest at that too.

[walpurgis]

Come to any conclusions yet Oliver?

[Bigman80]

Come to any conclusions yet Oliver?Yes, I haven't got it set up right. Vocals are very recessed and it seems to sound like I'm listening in a great hall.

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[walpurgis]

That sounds like it may be out of phase Oliver.

[Bigman80]

That sounds like it may be out of phase Oliver.What do I do to fix it Geoff.

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[walpurgis]

Make sure none of the tags are touching each other for a start. Is the mount a three pin or four pin? If you have all four wires connected, take the blue or green off and leave it loose, not touching anything else.

[Bigman80]

Make sure none of the tags are touching each other for a start. Is the mount a three pin or four pin? If you have all four wires connected, take the blue or green off and leave it loose, not touching anything else.It's three pin so I removed the blue wire Al together.

Only got red white and green available now. Is that the issue?

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[walpurgis]

Shouldn't be, depends on arm wiring etc. Green needs to be on the central pin. You could try swapping the blue for the green and see what happens. Or joining the blue and green together with a bit of fine wire, they may need 'commoning'.

[Bigman80]

Shouldn't be, depends on arm wiring etc. Green needs to be on the central pin. You could try swapping the blue for the green and see what happens. Or joining the blue and green together with a bit of fine wire, they may need 'commoning'.Ok, I'll give that a go. Hang on a minute

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[Bigman80]

No Geoff, both attached to the center pin and vocals are way way down in the mix.

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[Jimbo]

I had blue on centre pin with red and white on the other two. I left green off.

I am suspecting that it is a wiring issue from your description of the vocals, like Geoff said out of phase?

[walpurgis]

I had blue on centre pin with red and white on the other two. I left green off.

I am suspecting that it is a wiring issue from your description of the vocals, like Geoff said out of phase?

Yes. Seems like it.

If it is, swapping the outer wires one at a time with the inner connection may show this up. If the sound suddenly snaps into focus that's the problem (maybe :eek:).

[Bigman80]

Ok, I'll try that Jim. Give me a second.

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[walpurgis]

Just a thought Oliver. Have you ever used a meter on the arm wiring and checked for correct continuity, it's a possible issue.

[Bigman80]

Nope. Still not playing ball. Vocals almost disappeared. Given up and put the ZYX back on. I'll have a chat with Angus about potential solution or if he knows what's causing it.

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[Bigman80]

Just a thought Oliver. Have you ever used a meter on the arm wiring and checked for correct continuity, it's a possible issue.Just done it and it's sound. No issue there whatsoever.

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[walpurgis]

Nope. Still not playing ball. Vocals almost disappeared. Given up and put the ZYX back on. I'll have a chat with Angus about potential solution or if he knows what's causing it.

All seems pretty odd to me.

Are the small springy tags on the back of the cartridge making good contact with the front of the pins on the mount? Don't pull them about though.

[Bigman80]

All seems pretty odd to me.

Are the small springy tags on the back of the cartridge making good contact with the front of the pins on the mount? Don't pull them about though.Yes Geoff, they look to be in excellent condition and very springy, can't see them being an issue

Nice and shiny. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171028/f2294fade7c8f8f2940ac40062ed53a3.jpg

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[walpurgis]

Hmm. Can't think of anything else to look at. Bet the problem is something simple though.

[karma67]

oh bugger thats 2 decca's in as many weeks going weird :(

[Bigman80]

Well filling the advice to test the coils it would appear they are open circuit which isn't what I should be seeing with the multi meter. There a link on how to test this with a simple Google search.

It's a shame but it could be faulty. Damn.

Jimbo is aware, guess where it's being sent.........

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[walpurgis]

Well filling the advice to test the coils it would appear they are open circuit which isn't what I should be seeing with the multi meter. There a link on how to test this with a simple Google search.

It's a shame but it could be faulty. Damn.

Jimbo is aware, guess where it's being sent.........

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Not a good idea to test cartridge coils with a meter.

[Bigman80]

Not a good idea to test cartridge coils with a meter.Incredibly low setting mate. I mean incredibly low. Approved by EE

Common to HOT gave no reading at all on either channel.

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[karma67]

Well filling the advice to test the coils it would appear they are open circuit which isn't what I should be seeing with the multi meter. There a link on how to test this with a simple Google search.


if all the coils are open circuit how are you getting any sound?

[Bigman80]

if all the coils are open circuit how are you getting any sound?Heres what I found

"If you are sure the three contact leaves on the cartridge are all properly contacting their matching points*
on the mount bracket, the cartridge probably has an open lateral coil. *If the lateral coil is open, what you get is*
vertical-motion signal only on stereo records, out of phase in the two stereo speakers with no actual "localization"*
of sound sources. *If you blend the two channels for mono playback, you will get no signal as the out-of-phase*
signals will null each other.

On a mono record you will get practically no signal. *What you might hear would be from a slight azimuth misalignment*
and would be at a low level.

You can check the lateral coil with a digital multimeter, on the scale you would normally use to measure 10KΩ,*
NOT the "beep for continuity" setting. *Don't use an analoge multimeter unless you know it is a*
low-current type on resistance measurements. *If there is an open circuit between the center (Screen - common)*
contact leaf at the back of the cartridge and both side leaves (L Ch, R Ch), the lateral coil is probably open. *
You can also check at the tiny, test-only fourth "Lateral Coil" contact at the back of the cartridge (NOT the fourth*
pin on the mounting bracket). *This will probably show continuity to the side leaves but not to the center one,*
if the lateral coil is open.

If these measurements show the lateral coil is open circuit, the cartridge needs a visit to John Wright Audio Services*
for repair. *The usual cause is someone who has been futzing around inside the cartridge, breaking one of the fragile*
wires inside, but in the 1980s when I bought a Decca Gold from the Canadian importer Rocelco, it arrived with an open*
lateral coil and had to be replaced"

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[struth]

Heres what I found

"If you are sure the three contact leaves on the cartridge are all properly contacting their matching points*
on the mount bracket, the cartridge probably has an open lateral coil. *If the lateral coil is open, what you get is*
vertical-motion signal only on stereo records, out of phase in the two stereo speakers with no actual "localization"*
of sound sources. *If you blend the two channels for mono playback, you will get no signal as the out-of-phase*
signals will null each other.

On a mono record you will get practically no signal. *What you might hear would be from a slight azimuth misalignment*
and would be at a low level.

You can check the lateral coil with a digital multimeter, on the scale you would normally use to measure 10KΩ,*
NOT the "beep for continuity" setting. *Don't use an analoge multimeter unless you know it is a*
low-current type on resistance measurements. *If there is an open circuit between the center (Screen - common)*
contact leaf at the back of the cartridge and both side leaves (L Ch, R Ch), the lateral coil is probably open. *
You can also check at the tiny, test-only fourth "Lateral Coil" contact at the back of the cartridge (NOT the fourth*
pin on the mounting bracket). *This will probably show continuity to the side leaves but not to the center one,*
if the lateral coil is open.

If these measurements show the lateral coil is open circuit, the cartridge needs a visit to John Wright Audio Services*
for repair. *The usual cause is someone who has been futzing around inside the cartridge, breaking one of the fragile*
wires inside, but in the 1980s when I bought a Decca Gold from the Canadian importer Rocelco, it arrived with an open*
lateral coil and had to be replaced"

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sounds correct

[Bigman80]

sounds correctIt is mate, I verified it before I did anything.



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[karma67]

oh dear,
you might as well get it re tipped while its there jimbo.

[Jimbo]

oh dear,
you might as well get it re tipped while its there jimbo.

That's the plan. I am surprised it has not worked out as it sounded great when it was last on my deck.

One thing that may of happened is if the lid slides open slightly there is a contact that is touch with the top if the cartridge which may have failed ? They are delicate beasts and as I said to Oli they are fairly old, poorly manufactures and frail so this may of caused some malfunction. Easily remedied by JW so no problem

They are like a tin can full of coils and delicate bits of wire:eek:

[Bigman80]

That's the plan. I am surprised it has not worked out as it sounded great when it was last on my deck.

One thing that may of happened is if the lid slides open slightly there is a contact that is touch with the top if the cartridge which may have failed ? They are delicate beasts and as I said to Oli they are fairly old, poorly manufactures and frail so this may of caused some malfunction. Easily remedied by JW so no problem

They are like a tin can full of coils and delicate bits of wire:eek:A shame indeed. I hope it's an easy fix! Looks like I'll have to buy one to try one

One for the future.



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[Jimbo]

Unlucky Oli, something must have failed internally.

I will get it sorted and you will certainly have to come over and have a listen. :)

[mikeyb]

Be wary of just sending it off without checking it, my Decca just didn't gel with the Slagle as a pre from the Vivant Phono stage, sent the Decca off and nothing wrong with it.

Got it back today, it's into the Vivant then the Xiang Sheng DAC as a Pre into my M50 power amp and it's perfect. Only difference in the chain prior to sending it to John Wright is the active pre instead of the passive Slagle.

I read somewhere that Deccas don't do well with passive pre amps, why I've no idea but it certainly didn't go well when I had the Slagle. If you have an active pre Oliver, try that first before giving up.

Will it make a difference, I've no idea, I still can't get my head round why a different pre would make any difference when all it's doing is controlling the volume coming from the Phono stage ?

[Barry]

That's the plan. I am surprised it has not worked out as it sounded great when it was last on my deck.

One thing that may of happened is if the lid slides open slightly there is a contact that is touch with the top if the cartridge which may have failed ? They are delicate beasts and as I said to Oli they are fairly old, poorly manufactured and frail so this may of caused some malfunction. Easily remedied by JW so no problem

They are like a tin can full of coils and delicate bits of wire:eek:

Certainly the standard of manufacture of most Deccas is poor to say the least, if not appallingly shoddy. However the spring leaf that makes contact with the lid is there to ground the case. If it fails all that will happen is the whole cartridge will be susceptable to hum.

If there is an open circuit between the centre tag and both left and right tags, then the lateral coil is definitely open circuit. To confirm the vertical coils are OK, measure the resistance between the left and right tags.

Even fully working Deccas are variable in SQ: I have three Blues: one good; one OK but indifferent, and one poor.

[Bigman80]

Unlucky Oli, something must have failed internally.

I will get it sorted and you will certainly have to come over and have a listen. :)Its on!

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[Bigman80]

Be wary of just sending it off without checking it, my Decca just didn't gel with the Slagle as a pre from the Vivant Phono stage, sent the Decca off and nothing wrong with it.

Got it back today, it's into the Vivant then the Xiang Sheng DAC as a Pre into my M50 power amp and it's perfect. Only difference in the chain prior to sending it to John Wright is the active pre instead of the passive Slagle.

I read somewhere that Deccas don't do well with passive pre amps, why I've no idea but it certainly didn't go well when I had the Slagle. If you have an active pre Oliver, try that first before giving up.

Will it make a difference, I've no idea, I still can't get my head round why a different pre would make any difference when all it's doing is controlling the volume coming from the Phono stage ?How interesting! I was convinced the Slagle/passive couldn't be the problem.

Will a buffer help do you think? Can get hold of one from Alan fairly Quickly to try.

Did you have low volume or recessed vocals, mike?

I have no volume issue. Just vocals and an echo chamber like effect on them.

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[mikeyb]

How interesting! I was convinced the Slagle/passive couldn't be the problem.

Will a buffer help do you think? Can get hold of one from Alan fairly Quickly to try.

Did you have low volume or recessed vocals, mike?

I have no volume issue. Just vocals and an echo chamber like effect on them.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using TapatalkIt was low volume with me so my issue might have been different from yours. It was just an idea to check out in case you get same report as me if sent for checkup [emoji6]

[Bigman80]

It was low volume with me so my issue might have been different from yours. It was just an idea to check out in case you get same report as me if sent for checkup [emoji6]No mate, its a good shout.

I'm gonna send it back to Jimbo anyway. He has an active pre so he can try it in his system before doing anything.

I'd rather not make it worse if you know what I mean lol

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[mikeyb]

Almost new Decca Gold just gone up for sale on PFM

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=208047