Bright Star Isonodes / Coupling vs. Decoupling

[Yomanze]

I've always been a fan of coupling strategies, which is why I use a Mana rack spiked straight into my suspended wooden floor, and floor spikes on my speakers, however, my neighbours sometimes complain about the bass, but point out that they can't hear any music, just the 'boom' when I'm playing electronica & bass heavy music, no doubt it's the floor singing along.

So, I've picked up 8x Bright Star Isonodes to replace my speaker spikes. I hope this will stop the bass travelling through the floor into next door.

Has anyone else experimented with coupling vs. decoupling? For me, coupling gives a more focussed and live sound, but can get the room going more. Sorbothane can dull the sound, but Isonodes aren't made out of sorbothane...

[Yomanze]

They have massively reduced room interactions, so am indeed able to play the music louder. I can’t feel the bass though my feet anymore nor hearing boom upstairs. There is also more focus to the sound, a welcome addition considering that I only wanted to stop annoying the neighbours.

[choirboy]

I've been toying with this very thing for a while now. I'm using a pair of Harbeth 30.1 on my old Sonus Faber adjustable stands and due to the position of the speakers (somewhere where they can be easily knocked off) I needed a way for the speakers to sit in a more secure manner on the stands. My old Sonus Fabers mounted to the stand with screws previously but that was not possible with the Harbeths.

When I first got the 30.1's they sounded shut in, muddled and boomy. I'm running them in a small room and on a suspended wooden floor. I tried Acoustifeet pads at first, then upgraded to small Black Ravioli pads under the speakers which helped somewhat. I then added in Sound Damped Steel feet and Blue Horizon Spike Shoes under the stand spikes and this helped massively to reduce the bass driving the floor boards and cleaned up the muddiness of the presentation.
I still found though that my speakers could get knocked easily by people coming in and out of the room so I looked for another solution.

I ended up investing in some of these in the end and have been really pleased with how they work.

http://www.isoacoustics.com/iso-puck/

They have a flange cup design which creates a small amount of suction that couples on both sides (to both the speaker underside and to the top of the stand). They essentially try to decouple the speaker from it's environment.
I can run use the speakers without any of the SDS or Blue Horizon feet now because they are not transmitting much energy into the stands, but rather into the Isopuck.
I'm getting a very wide and deep detailed soundstage with tightly controlled bass (not boxy or boomy at all which is amazing considering I'm in a very small room). The speakers feel very free but I'm aware that most people tend to think coupling is the way to go with Harbeths.

I only needed 3 per speaker due to weight.

Anyway I'm not sure if they sound better this way then placing them on Something Solid Stands or a wooden stand on a normal floored room but in my situation they work really well and they're not outrageously expensive either.

Good luck experimenting. :)

[Yomanze]

Thanks for the post, interesting experiences similar to what I have been noticing.

I do think it is important to match the decoupling with the weight expected - my speakers are 16.5kg each, with 4 large isonodes supporting up to 19kg. It means they act properly as a ‘seismic spring’ instead of being squashed too flat.

[walpurgis]

If speakers are not coupled to the floor rigidly either directly or via their stands (if used), then surely the bass driver will impart a rocking moment? This may be small but it will be there and depending on the inertia/mass of the speaker and isolation compliance, may be within the audio bandwidth, certainly the energy from the bass driver will be, but that could excite sympathetic resonances below this. Has anybody using isolating mounts carried out tests to check? A sweep tone could show what is happening.

[Yomanze]

Yep it's a real possibility Geoff. The way my speakers are set up is they are bolted into a back plate in my stands with them slightly above the top plate. I give my speakers a push and there's a damped wobble, but can't notice any movement when music is playing. The bass resonance frequency of my speakers is 30hz, but I am pretty sure that the weight-loaded isonodes + speaker bottom plate interface are way lower than that, 3hz or I think (when I push a corner it seems to rock back and forth less than twice & stops in under a second) - they actually move in a very similar way to how speakers do on Townshend seismic speaker bars. I should set up a seismograph app or a motion detector app on my phone to see what's happening.

[Spectral Morn]

Anthony Gallo changed the Reference 3.5 stand away from rigid spike/cone mounting to a soft squidgy one. It worked, they sound better than the original ones, and I tried substituting the old stand on to the new speaker, sounded better with the dedicated squidgy base.... go figure

[Yomanze]

Interesting to the topic Geoff: https://youtu.be/dW9-r83IvhI?t=292 (at 4:52)

[choirboy]

If speakers are not coupled to the floor rigidly either directly or via their stands (if used), then surely the bass driver will impart a rocking moment? This may be small but it will be there and depending on the inertia/mass of the speaker and isolation compliance, may be within the audio bandwidth, certainly the energy from the bass driver will be, but that could excite sympathetic resonances below this. Has anybody using isolating mounts carried out tests to check? A sweep tone could show what is happening.

From the Isopuck website which sort of explains their approach:


The ISO-PUCK’s upper flange “suction cup” design adheres to the underside of the cabinet making the upper isolator live with the speaker, while the lower isolator adheres to the supporting surface. All the energy is managed within the core of the ISO-PUCK’s isolators which are carefully tuned to provide superior isolation and control while remaining on-axis.

[Yomanze]

Well I have been very impressed with these, as discussed they have stopped room interaction / bass through the floor issues, so have ordered 2x more sets, 1x large set for going under my DAC or amp, and 1x small set for going under my preamp. I also have some black ravioli pads on my CD transport, which I think I might move down to my power amp. So, a little bit of tweaking ahead.

[Spectral Morn]

I use them under a granite slab that my turntable sits on, very effective and as shelf isolation on an old Target B series table I have, also effective.

[Yomanze]

I use them under a granite slab that my turntable sits on, very effective and as shelf isolation on an old Target B series table I have, also effective.

Cool, they are excellent VFM too. I have an acrylic platform from SRM/Tech that uses sorbothane hemispheres, I suspect that it will perform better with the isonodes.

[Yomanze]

My decoupling adventures continue... I have just gotten another 4x large Bright Star IsoNodes, and 4x small ones. So:

Black Ravioli under the amp
Replace the Black Ravoli under my CD player (moving these to the amp) with an SRM/Tech Silent Stage that's doing nothing upstairs
Large IsoNodes under the DAC
Small IsoNodes under my preamp (just the preamp box, not the power supply box)

+ the existing Large IsoNodes under the speakers

[Yomanze]

It appears like the noise floor of the system has dropped, sweeter top end and more defined bass. However the room is sounding significantly less lively now so the sound is drier, but more 3D soundstage, probably because it all sounds more taut and controlled now, especially when there are bass transients.

[Mikeandvan]

Hi Yomanze, can you explain how you place your large isonodes under your speakers? Do you use anything between them and speakers, like granite for instance? I have bass control issues with my set up.
Thanks. Mike.

[Yomanze]

Hi Yomanze, can you explain how you place your large isonodes under your speakers? Do you use anything between them and speakers, like granite for instance? I have bass control issues with my set up.
Thanks. Mike.

Hi Mike. I took the floor spikes off and replaced them with IsoNodes. No granite, just using the flat side against the bottom plate of the stands. However, 4x large IsoNodes are rated to a maximum of 19KG, and your speakers are 20KG, so if you wanted to try, you'd need the extra large ones rated at 27KG (your Ruark speakers at 20KG each I think). This'd be $100 for 8x pieces.

if you wanted a cheaper alternative, take a look at: http://www.qtasystems.co.uk/articles/how-to-use-sorbothane-hemispheres.htm - the charts indicate you'd want 8x 40M50D for your speakers.

[Mikeandvan]

Hi Mike. I took the floor spikes off and replaced them with IsoNodes. No granite, just using the flat side against the bottom plate of the stands. However, 4x large IsoNodes are rated to a maximum of 19KG, and your speakers are 20KG, so if you wanted to try, you'd need the extra large ones rated at 27KG (your Ruark speakers at 20KG each I think). This'd be $100 for 8x pieces.

if you wanted a cheaper alternative, take a look at: http://www.qtasystems.co.uk/articles/how-to-use-sorbothane-hemispheres.htm - the charts indicate you'd want 8x 40M50D for your speakers.
Thank you so much! I shall try this.

[Yomanze]

Thank you so much! I shall try this.

Please make sure you report back!

[Mikeandvan]

Please make sure you report back!
Will do, I just ordered 8, only £25. My room is carpeted, is it best to put stone slabs down first?

[walpurgis]

My room is carpeted, is it best to put stone slabs down first?

Not directly onto carpet. Any residual moisture in the slabs will rot the carpet. It happened to me! There's always some moisture retained by slabs, even if they look dry.

[Mikeandvan]

Not directly onto carpet. Any residual moisture in the slabs will rot the carpet. It happened to me! There's always some moisture retained by slabs, even if they look dry.
Shit, its complicated.

[Yomanze]

Just use a few discs of paper under the domes if you don’t want marks on the carpet. No need for additional platforms.

[Mikeandvan]

Isonodes here, can't hear a bit of difference, doesn't surprise me.

[Yomanze]

Isonodes here, can't hear a bit of difference, doesn't surprise me.

So you are still getting room boom? Seems like you will need to use some DSP / EQ to sort your issues then I’m afraid.

[hifinutt]

some great ideas in this thread , just posted a similar one on the wam to see what alternatives to blu tac

https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/126917-securing-standmount-speakers-without-damaging-veneer/?page=2

some more info on the iso puck which looks interesting

https://youtu.be/aojtGHVga-Y

[Mikeandvan]

So you are still getting room boom? Seems like you will need to use some DSP / EQ to sort your issues then I’m afraid.

Yes, still as boomy as ever. Gonna try an amp change soon anyway. But I do need to do some room measurements.

[Yomanze]

Yes, still as boomy as ever. Gonna try an amp change soon anyway. But I do need to do some room measurements.

Amp won’t help you. It has to be a room mode if it’s not the floor, or just boomy speakers. I think the former though.

[alphaGT]

Yes, still as boomy as ever. Gonna try an amp change soon anyway. But I do need to do some room measurements.

What kind of speakers are you working with? Room size? Just curious...


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[hifinutt]

got some isopucks in situ under my b&w standmounts . rather like these little babies . cost effective upgrade . immediately noticeable improvement in soundstage and full bloodied sound . worth the money

http://www.isoacoustics.com/isoacoustics-news/recording-magazine-reviews-iso-puck-for-november-issue/

[Yomanze]

got some isopucks in situ under my b&w standmounts . rather like these little babies . cost effective upgrade . immediately noticeable improvement in soundstage and full bloodied sound . worth the money

http://www.isoacoustics.com/isoacoustics-news/recording-magazine-reviews-iso-puck-for-november-issue/

Good stuff. Did you place them under the speaker stands or the speakers themselves?

[hifinutt]

under the speakers on the stands . hopefully when i can get some better standmounts i can put them under the speakers on the stand . saves buying a fancy stand and i can make something suitable heigth

[Yomanze]

under the speakers on the stands . hopefully when i can get some better standmounts i can put them under the speakers on the stand . saves buying a fancy stand and i can make something suitable heigth

Try them in place of your floor spikes / stand bases too. [emoji4]

...have just bought another pair of large IsoNodes for under the TT, and some small ones for my preamp power supply. This means my entire system will be decoupled.

[hifinutt]

so now popped my humble proac studio 125 back in system yesterday . they have been good and lovely midrange but a tiny bit lacking when you play piano . hence an order for another pair of speakers recently after a number of listening sessions .

well thought i would risk the iso pucks under the proac as they are quite light and the 9kg per puck is easily within limits . i was worried they would wobble but they are infact quite stable

well i never cease to be amazed how these isolation thingies make such a difference , havng been impressed in days gone by by all the usual , sonority design platforms, stella stands , stillpoints , black ravioli etc etc .... the pucks as we have said are very reasonably priced at 50 quid from pro audio stores so around 200 quid for a pair of speakers

the improvement on the proac is profound , much clearer and sweeter treble and much more full bloodied sound all round . extremly good tweak if i may say