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Mikeandvan
18-10-2017, 22:58
Currently play just vinyl and CD. Want to try streaming, that is downloading music from the internet! I have a laptop, but no idea how to go about all this. Do I need a streamer? My amp is naim 72, so pre digital, so guess I'll need a dac?! Was thinking about getting a Sony 700 or similar, do these have dacs? So with these 2 amps in mind, how do I go about this? Sorry for my complete ignorance........... Budget? Well, normally buy second hand, so I guess £100 - £300. Ta.

Stratmangler
18-10-2017, 23:22
I take it you mean using some kind of subscription streaming service.
Your laptop will get you started, along with an appropriate analogue output cable.

Your laptop already has a DAC fronting up the line out/headphone output.
We're down to £20.00 for hardware.
Spotify premium is another £9.99 per month.

Edward
19-10-2017, 06:14
Mike

I started my digital listening to exactly how you are starting. And fully agree with Chris why not simply start with a lead from your headphone output of your laptop to a spare line input on your Naim. Just search on ebay or amazon etc for '3.5mm to 5 pin naim'. I just did a quick look and see many from around £6 upwards to £15. Maybe you already have such a cable.

Then simply use one of your spare inputs on your Naim.

Then stream from wherever you like to get a feel of the sound and controls. Try BBC Radio, Radio Paradise etc. Thousands of free streaming services out there. And suggest you start off with Spotify Free first off. Even though slightly less quality than the paid version the sound is still very good.

A neat thing about Spotify is that you can use your smart phone to remotely control Spotify playing on your Laptop. Live the life of a couch potato. :lol:

Later on you can buy a DAC which will lift the quality even further from what will anyway be quite good.

I've done exactly the above for several friends and without exception they have been amazed at the world that has opened up for them.

r100
19-10-2017, 08:02
More compact, less power hungry, silent and dedicated to streaming compared to a laptop would be something like this...

https://volumio.org/product/volumio-mini86/ (https://volumio.org/product/volumio-mini86/)
https://i1.wp.com/volumio.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/volumio-mini-86-3.jpg?resize=700%2C700&ssl=1

add a DAC and you're done...

or something like with an integrated Sabre DAC (the new ES9028)

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/network-audio-players/audiophonics-raspdac-i-sabre-es9028q2m-streamer-raspberry-pi-3-dac-p-12315.html

https://www.audiophonics.fr/25834-thickbox_default/audiophonics-raspdac-i-sabre-es9028q2m-streamer-raspberry-pi-3-dac.jpg

struth
19-10-2017, 08:08
or a nice dac. these are good

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XiangSheng-Digital-Tube-USB-DAC-Audio-Decoder-Headphone-Amp-Hi-Fi-Pre-Amplifier-/282251862033?hash=item41b785a011:g:pNsAAOSwwvZZXIG 4

Colinijohnson
19-10-2017, 08:13
I have a Dragonfly usb dac/ headphone amp with rca leads to amp if interested for the price of 5 packets of L & B. Google dragonfly, pm if interested. Good way to start


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Audio Al
19-10-2017, 11:36
I have just done what you are intending :doh:

Bit of a ball ache at first but I now have it working

Do you have Amazon prime ?

If you do you have free music with the Prime ( Thats what I use )

I have a used DAC 3 purchased from AOS for £60 , it works OK , I say OK as its in my opinion NOT as good as vinyl

:D

Stratmangler
19-10-2017, 14:18
in my opinion NOT as good as vinyl

You're playing lowish bitrate MP3s.
What do expect?
Polishing turds is not a particularly rewarding pastime :eyebrows:

struth
19-10-2017, 14:29
yup, the free amazon "prime" service has a lower bitrate than the paid for service for a start. the unlimited is much better sound wise

Audio Al
19-10-2017, 16:17
Whats a bitrate :scratch:

struth
19-10-2017, 16:18
compression.

walpurgis
19-10-2017, 16:21
bandage

struth
19-10-2017, 16:28
they may have changed their ways tho. check in settings advanced and set it for high.

Stratmangler
19-10-2017, 17:17
Whats a bitrate :scratch:

https://techterms.com/definition/bitrate

CD spec is 1411 Kbps

Colinijohnson
19-10-2017, 17:34
Or the official exchange value for bitcoins!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

r100
19-10-2017, 19:49
or a nice dac. these are good

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XiangSheng-Digital-Tube-USB-DAC-Audio-Decoder-Headphone-Amp-Hi-Fi-Pre-Amplifier-/282251862033?hash=item41b785a011:g:pNsAAOSwwvZZXIG 4

yeah, but that is only a DAC ... OP want's a streamer + DAC (ps, that DAC is pretty outdated)

ps. this page gives some info on a cheap but very good streamer / DAC combinations

https://www.allo.com/network-audio-player.html

Mikeandvan
19-10-2017, 22:30
Thanks all, I'm interested in a slightly higher quality streamer that I can buy second hand, any to look out for? Also if I had an old SOny amp (or other brand) from the 90s, with a DAC, would that work or does it need something more up to date?

Stratmangler
19-10-2017, 23:05
All streamers are essentially computers, albeit very small footprint ones, that render data to give sound.
The least expensive route into it would be a Raspberry Pi.
There is one serious drawback to this route - if you're not particularly IT literate you're fairly dependent on knowing someone who is.

Yes, it's possible for someone to send you a preconfigured piece of kit, but unless they're relatively local to you there is the problem of any IT issues that will arise, and trust me on this one, issues will arise sooner or later.

The simplest route into streaming media is yer good old laptop, because it's the interface you're most comfortable with.
As soon as you move over to running headless rendering devices you're in at the deep end.

I had a Raspberry Pi 3 starter kit delivered just last week, and it took me all of about 10 minutes to throw it together, and get some functionality out of it, but it also took a fair bit of head scratching and cursing to get it to do all I expected, and a good few hours disappeared in the process.

I now have a RasPi3 doing performing serving duties, but can also perform the rendering task too, and can be controlled from a web browser on any computer in the house, and also by a controller app on my Smartphone.

At this stage I recommend getting to grips with what you can accomplish with your laptop.

struth
19-10-2017, 23:10
yeah, but that is only a DAC ... OP want's a streamer + DAC (ps, that DAC is pretty outdated)

ps. this page gives some info on a cheap but very good streamer / DAC combinations

https://www.allo.com/network-audio-player.html

It's all he needs and on budget. He has a laptop. It's a very good dac

Audio Al
20-10-2017, 12:59
The bitrate for Prime Music is 320kbps MP3 is this any good ?

Edward
20-10-2017, 13:17
The bitrate for Prime Music is 320kbps MP3 is this any good ?

Amazon streams at up to 256k AAC which generally is better than 320k MP3. For comparison Spotify streams at 320k OGG. All of it will sound 'good' - and will be enhanced with a decent DAC.

mikeyb
20-10-2017, 13:38
The bitrate for Prime Music is 320kbps MP3 is this any good ?Be fine, I listen to a few radio streams that only give 128 and some are outstanding, if you want a listen to a really good 128kbps stream try Space Station Soma ( Electronic ) or at 192kbps try Blues Radio Athens to show what lower bitrates can do.

I don't know why they sound better than other streams at the same bitrate but they do.

r100
21-10-2017, 21:05
It's all he needs and on budget. He has a laptop. It's a very good dac

sorry Grant, a laptop - even a Mac:D - is a crappy DAC.

struth
21-10-2017, 21:18
I beg to differ and a few in here will agree with me it's a very good dac

r100
22-10-2017, 13:38
I guess it depends to what you compare it to ;)

Stratmangler
23-10-2017, 17:13
In truth the DACs in most laptops are more than up to the job in hand.

Where things fall down is in a couple of areas.
The analogue output stage can usually be bettered, and on top of that you're likely have some switching noise contamination over the audio circuitry. It will be very low in amplitude, but it will be there.

Irrespective of all of this, a laptop hooked up to an amplifier is a decent enough way to get to grips with streaming.

Edward
23-10-2017, 17:23
In truth the DACs in most laptops are more than up to the job in hand.

Where things fall down is in a couple of areas.
The analogue output stage can usually be bettered, and on top of that you're likely have some switching noise contamination over the audio circuitry. It will be very low in amplitude, but it will be there.

Irrespective of all of this, a laptop hooked up to an amplifier is a decent enough way to get to grips with streaming.

^^^ ditto ^^^

And, assuming one has a laptop or old computer, it is effectively free to dip one's toes into the streaming world. Well perhaps only for some cables costing a few quid.

struth
23-10-2017, 17:23
I was suggesting putting a dac inbetween both. Stream with laptop to dac. £100 or so and your there as he has a lappy and amp. Spotify sounds fine this way and was what the guy asked for

Yomanze
24-10-2017, 13:51
Just bear in mind that streaming from Spotify, TIDAL etc. means that certain tracks (like from Universal Music Group) will be watermarked, which *can* be audible. Sometimes you'll notice subtle distortions from streaming that you don't notice on CD. Thus, don't tear your hair out thinking there's something up with your system if you hear it!

Sherwood
24-10-2017, 14:02
Currently play just vinyl and CD. Want to try streaming, that is downloading music from the internet! I have a laptop, but no idea how to go about all this. Do I need a streamer? My amp is naim 72, so pre digital, so guess I'll need a dac?! Was thinking about getting a Sony 700 or similar, do these have dacs? So with these 2 amps in mind, how do I go about this? Sorry for my complete ignorance........... Budget? Well, normally buy second hand, so I guess £100 - £300. Ta.

Mike,

If you are still searching for a solution I have two items which might meet your needs.

The first is a Musical Fidelity V-Dac https://www.whathifi.com/musical-fidelity/v-dac/review
The second is an HRT Music Streamer II https://www.whathifi.com/hrt/music-streamer-ii/review

Both are simple in use and plug into your PC usb port at one end and your amplifiers rca input at the other end. Both devices are in excellent condition and would be well within your budget. PM if you are interested in either.

Geoff

Pharos
24-10-2017, 15:41
I do not mean to Hi-Jack you thread, but I greatly sympathise with this question, especially because I am in the same position, and baffled, despite a whole thread starting on another forum, designed to simplify with a best solution for once and all which petered out.

But 8 months later and to me it still looks like a mine-field full of tens of names and different approaches/systems, and with no obvious best one. The modes are seemingly endless, with people buying extra bits to interface things with other incompatible bits to attempt a solution. This may well suit manufacturers but I am not a fan of superfluity, or of wasting money.

So I want the cheapest solution which provides the best quality available, preferably lossless, for both downloading for keeps and for direct listen streaming, with the least amount of hardware of the highest quality and reliability.

My current state of play is having a Mac mini behind the TV so that I can use a Mac laptop with it, and 'echo the small screen on the TV for concerts, lectures and even Emails at ten feet. I do not want a trailing HDMI lead which I have to unplug when not in use.

I really think that there has to be an obvious best way to stream, and I will devote time in the near future to a long term effective solution for the above needs expessed.

Surely the pooling of experience and information on AoS can provide a consensus and help everyone.

Sherwood
24-10-2017, 15:49
I do not mean to Hi-Jack you thread, but I greatly sympathise with this question, especially because I am in the same position, and baffled, despite a whole thread starting on another forum, designed to simplify with a best solution for once and all which petered out.

But 8 months later and to me it still looks like a mine-field full of tens of names and different approaches/systems, and with no obvious best one. The modes are seemingly endless, with people buying extra bits to interface things with other incompatible bits to attempt a solution. This may well suit manufacturers but I am not a fan of superfluity, or of wasting money.

So I want the cheapest solution which provides the best quality available, preferably lossless, for both downloading for keeps and for direct listen streaming, with the least amount of hardware of the highest quality and reliability.

My current state of play is having a Mac mini behind the TV so that I can use a Mac laptop with it, and 'echo the small screen on the TV for concerts, lectures and even Emails at ten feet. I do not want a trailing HDMI lead which I have to unplug when not in use.

I really think that there has to be an obvious best way to stream, and I will devote time in the near future to a long term effective solution for the above needs expessed.

Surely the pooling of experience and information on AoS can provide a consensus and help everyone.

Dennis,

there is no obvious best way, but there are many ways. Perhaps the obvious choices are whether to use a pc/laptop for file storage or a dedicated "streamer"; whether to go for a "wired" or "wireless" approach; and, whether to for for a "kit" based on a Raspberry Pi or similar, or an "off the shelf, plug and play solution!. None are necessarily superior from a technical point of view, but each is appropriate to different needs and circumstances. Perhaps the two most important considerations are the budget and how tech savvy the end user is.

Geoff

struth
24-10-2017, 15:54
there is only one right way, alas everyone's is slightly, to completely different. ;) see if you can have a listen to some members system near you;it might give you some ideas. i can stream via wire or bluetooth 4, or chromecast or by wifi. best of all worlds and use a pc mostly as base but sometimes an Ipad too. Can use either my flac/ape files or stream spotify/tidal and Tunin radio. oh yes and I have a rpi system too just for good measure.:D

Edward
24-10-2017, 16:13
<snip>

Surely the pooling of experience and information on AoS can provide a consensus and help everyone.

Dennis, I don't think a consensus can be built as Geoff says there are many perfectly acceptable ways of achieving this.

In my mind I see things in a twofold way. One can go the DIY incremental route or simply go via a all-in-one streaming solution. I chose to to the DIY incremental route which I found to be satisfying. But if I had chosen to go via a ready made solution I will, I'm sure, also have found that be satisfying.

I went to the Windsor audio show last Saturday and saw both types of solutions being used but with ready made solutions being in the majority.

Very good examples were solutions provided by Melco (https://www.melco-audio.com/products/n1z-2/) and Merging+Player (http://nadac.merging.com/product/nadac-player). I was particularly impressed with the merging+player as it incorporated in a very easy to understand way local content and cloud content (e.g. Tidal) with Roon being the software used (and thus widely understood). But you pays your money. Clearly there are cheaper ready made solutions. A friend (well actually two friends) use the excellent Cambridge Audio Azur 851N (https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/gbr/en/products/851/851n).

The DIY route, by definition, is varied and many. Starting from a 3.5mm jack to ultra hi-end (expensive DACs) (http://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/reference-features/).




(https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/gbr/en/products/851/851n)

r100
24-10-2017, 20:24
man, this is depressing.

Sherwood
24-10-2017, 20:43
man, this is depressing.

Not sure why? You can get into streaming for £20 with a Google device or for less than £100 a Raspberry Pi based device that will compete with devices which only a few years ago would have costs thousands!

For me that is very encouraging!

Geoff

smangus
24-10-2017, 21:29
I use my mobile into my amp via a Bluetooth dac cost me £20 . I use amazon tunes and when I buy vinyl now a lot of times there is a download code. Mainly use this for the kitchen and background music. Fine for me. When you look at the permutations avaible with a vinyl set up - cart, Phono stage, deck, arm etc it's way more confusing!

LOL yet I still got one.

Pharos
24-10-2017, 22:33
I tend to agree Geoff, but I hope that my post and obvious ignorance are not contributory.

It depresses me that a 'free market' results in a multiplicity of solutions and which to me seem to be unnecessary.
Sainsburys, a year or so ago analysed their shampoo stock, to find that they had I believe 26 varieties available. They rationalised this, and I wonder why so many, probably marketing psychology. Normal, dry, greasy, permed, and dandruff seem to be the main needs, and this excess of choice is one aspect of capitalism which annoys me.

Sherwood
25-10-2017, 11:11
I tend to agree Geoff, but I hope that my post and obvious ignorance are not contributory.

It depresses me that a 'free market' results in a multiplicity of solutions and which to me seem to be unnecessary.
Sainsburys, a year or so ago analysed their shampoo stock, to find that they had I believe 26 varieties available. They rationalised this, and I wonder why so many, probably marketing psychology. Normal, dry, greasy, permed, and dandruff seem to be the main needs, and this excess of choice is one aspect of capitalism which annoys me.

Dennis,

as a development economist who has spent much of my professional life living and working in the developing world I have some sympathy for your views. It is certainly sobering to come back to the UK from a country where the vast majority of people live on less than a dollar a day, to find such waste and excess. Yes, by their very nature, free markets result in multiple competing products which differ very little from each other in substance, and rely on marketing to stand out to the consumer. Production costs could certainly be reduced if the number of competing products were reduced and marketing spend eliminated. However, as a committed socialist I have to concede that attempts to replace market mechanism have by and large proved disastrous: one only needs to look at the stupendous failures of soviet era command economies. That is not to say that markets should be completely unregulated. As much as I might find the hyper expensive hifi products that have emerged in recent years distasteful, markets do encourage innovation and technical progress.

In the case of digital technology, it is now possible to acquire a music source of extremely high quality for next to nothing. As good as vinyl is, or can be, it requires precision engineering and that does not come cheap.

Geoff

worrasf
26-10-2017, 11:50
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171026/a7141495c75d8b29ae4b342ddeec9f8d.jpg

A really neat solution is the Chordette Gem DAC.
This has both USB and Bluetooth inputs.
I use it (Bluetooth)to stream from my iPhone and (USB) from my MacBook direct to my preamp. It works flawlessly.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Minstrel SE
26-10-2017, 16:12
I still havent really been sold on direct streaming. I have briefly tried the Spotify site to sample some Throbbing Gristle of all things :)....no jokes please.

If I am on a limited broadband allowance surely streaming would eat into that at a rate of knots.

I like to switch radio 3 or 6 on and listen all day....thats my streaming over the airwaves.

I have hundreds of cds and vinyl records that I barely have time to listen to. Where does streaming fit into all this and what do you all listen to please? Any adverts would drive me barmy.

struth
26-10-2017, 16:23
no ads on premium service but it will eat into broadband if on an allowance. you can download and play offline if out on mobile.

Gazjam
26-10-2017, 17:06
Radio Paradise is a top notch internet radio station.
Great selection of music and no ads.

Highly recommended...discovered so much great music from here.
https://www.radioparadise.com/rp3.php?name=Listen&file=index

struth
26-10-2017, 17:23
RP have been doing flac streams too

Edward
26-10-2017, 17:48
RP have been doing flac streams too


Woo this is exciting Grant. I originally found the RP 320 AAC stream via the Naim forums before RP officially published their 320 AAC stream (http://www.radioparadise.com/m3u/aac-320.m3u).

Having a quick read of the RP and Naim forums it seems that the RP flac implementation is still a bit 'beta'. Let's hope RP can achieve full flac streaming.

How are you listening to RP Flac? I mainly use JRiver but only so far up to 320AAC. But I just see that on my Phone Flac is now possible. :)

struth
26-10-2017, 17:55
I' not at moment but seems they are using android and then sending it on to their hifi. Ive not got round to trying it but tbh their 320 stuff is implemated so well its maybe going to be very good. supposed to be using the same system the bbc used.

Edward
26-10-2017, 18:05
I' not at moment but seems they are using android and then sending it on to their hifi. Ive not got round to trying it but tbh their 320 stuff is implemated so well its maybe going to be very good. supposed to be using the same system the bbc used.

Cheers

Since I posted above I enabled Flac on my Android Teevee RP app. So my path is Internet > TeeVee > RP App > Toslink > Dac. Sounding good. Neat thing about the TeeVee RP app are the high res pics that go with the high res music stream. :cool:

r100
27-10-2017, 17:55
Dennis,

as a development economist who has spent much of my professional life living and working in the developing world I have some sympathy for your views. It is certainly sobering to come back to the UK from a country where the vast majority of people live on less than a dollar a day, to find such waste and excess. Yes, by their very nature, free markets result in multiple competing products which differ very little from each other in substance, and rely on marketing to stand out to the consumer. Production costs could certainly be reduced if the number of competing products were reduced and marketing spend eliminated. However, as a committed socialist I have to concede that attempts to replace market mechanism have by and large proved disastrous: one only needs to look at the stupendous failures of soviet era command economies. That is not to say that markets should be completely unregulated. As much as I might find the hyper expensive hifi products that have emerged in recent years distasteful, markets do encourage innovation and technical progress.

Geoff

WTF has this got to do with the subject ?

Sherwood
27-10-2017, 18:07
WTF has this got to do with the subject ?

I am happy to explain it for you. The "point" was a response to Dennis' discomfort with the large number of barely differentiated products and wasteful duplication that result from free markets. My view is that the negative aspects of markets are outweighed by the innovation that comes with competition. The result is that one can acquire a digital source for the price of a couple of cd's that wipes the floor with many elite cd players of the last 20 years.

Geoff

Yomanze
27-10-2017, 18:45
@r100: This is AoS, ‘the subject’ is often a very broad thing indeed, which is all part of this forum’s charm.

r100
27-10-2017, 19:14
I am happy to explain it for you. The "point" was a response to Dennis' discomfort with the large number of barely differentiated products and wasteful duplication that result from free markets. My view is that the negative aspects of markets are outweighed by the innovation that comes with competition. The result is that one can acquire a digital source for the price of a couple of cd's that wipes the floor with many elite cd players of the last 20 years.

Geoff

I got your point.

Pharos
27-10-2017, 21:25
It was a philosophical point, and applies to audio, but when the differences are small . . . . . .

Sherwood
27-10-2017, 22:24
It was a philosophical point, and applies to audio, but when the differences are small . . . . . .

I don't think you have to defend your observation. I, for one, agree with your point. I would say that 90% of what's on the market is a "me too" product!

Minstrel SE
28-10-2017, 15:44
But my point is what are you all streaming when there are good radio stations here and you have record collections to listen to??

A good day with Radio 3 is relaxing and a pure joy :)

Just havent been sold on streaming. Are any overseas radio stations or music playlists that good? I create my own. You must all be on unlimited broadband with too much time on your hands :)

Sherwood
28-10-2017, 16:22
But my point is what are you all streaming when there are good radio stations here and you have record collections to listen to??

A good day with Radio 3 is relaxing and a pure joy :)

Just havent been sold on streaming. Are any overseas radio stations or music playlists that good? I create my own. You must all be on unlimited broadband with too much time on your hands :)

I stream my own music. I have now ripped my huge cd collection to FLAC format and have the files on a couple of disks. In fact, I am about to transfer it to a new WD 8tb Easystore NAS drive I bought when in the USA recently. My initial reason for ripping my CDs was that I was living overseas and it was getting progressively more expensive to ship and insure my CDs when I went from one country to the next. I have since discovered that the sound of a ripped CD is often better than a physical CD, even when played on a top drive. I think it may be down to the error correction of CD players to which I think my ears are especially susceptible. Whatever the reason, I can now play my CDs on multiple systems around the house either as single CD titles or as part of playlists. The same systems allow me to play titles on Spotify Premium so that I can decide in advance whether a CD title is good enough for me to buy it.

I am now experimenting with ripping those titles in my vinyl collection which never made it to CD so that I can carry those titles with me when I go back overseas in the new year.

As to unlimited broadband, who wouldn't be on unlimited by choice?

Geoff

Stratmangler
28-10-2017, 16:26
You must all be on unlimited broadband with too much time on your hands :)

I'm surprised that you have capped bandwidth.

Any radio I listen to at home is streamed (I live in a geographically interesting area), but because I have a very fast connection the BBC services stream at the highest possible bitrates (the BBC adjusts itself automatically to suit the available bandwidth), and they sound very, very good.
Good enough to pick up the annoying slapback from the window between the studio and control room when Chris Evans gets a bit excited and shouty during the morning breakfast show.
The BBC engineers need to adjust the cardioid pattern of the ribbon microphones they use :eyebrows:

struth
28-10-2017, 16:30
The extra for unlimited isnt that much, compared to the cost of accidentally going over. Mind you i stream most things so use a lot every month.

Pharos
28-10-2017, 17:09
I feel very disappointed with the BBC for several reasons.

Their standards of care have plummeted in the last 40 years, they seemingly indifferent to mic. position and proximity effects, (which was at one time their pride), and their programmes are often banal, and patronising as well.

You won't get them to care about cardioid positioning, and on TV they point the mic. away from the mouths down to the laps of presenters, when they could clip it on the other lapel.

R3 has a slight self important condescension on occasions, and Late Junction, which was a gem exposing new creativity 15 years ago seems now to be crammed with smart asses with samplers producing inane abstract noise of little artistic merit.

The point about streaming being higher quality then CD is interesting, one of my friends is of that view.

montesquieu
28-10-2017, 17:15
I have a Raspberry Pi for sale in the classifieds

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?53801-FS-Pair-of-Raspberry-Pi-2%92s-one-with-DAC-other-with-SPDIF-output&highlight=raspberry

The SPDIF one is sold but the one with built-in DAC is still available (I just forgot to bump it)

All you need alongside this (once it's set up) is a phone app or you can use a browser on your laptop, it's all wireless.

vegman1973
28-10-2017, 18:44
Whats a bitrate :scratch:

The size of the file being used.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

vegman1973
28-10-2017, 18:47
I guess it depends to what you compare it to ;)

Yes I agree Laptop Dac is inferior to a dedicated external Dac.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Minstrel SE
28-10-2017, 19:52
The extra for unlimited isnt that much, compared to the cost of accidentally going over. Mind you i stream most things so use a lot every month.

Yep I take the point. Im on a capped system because I might be going walkabout soon and they want me on a new fixed term contract for unlimited.

So yes its odd because they can offer me unlimited a bit cheaper if I commit for 12 to 18 months which I cant do at the moment.

I will see but you are all right in that who goes limited allowance now? :)

I still love an FM tuner with an outdoor aerial

Mikeandvan
20-01-2018, 23:33
Stupid question. I guess old integrated amps Dacs won't be able to deal with new high res streaming? Was thinking of getting some mid 90s Sony a/v beastie as I need a dac for streaming (don't need phono stage - already a Nak ca-5 I use as a phono amp). I want good quality streaming, as I plan to make this my main source, getting very tired of changing records.

legb4rsk
28-01-2018, 12:53
Being a cheapskate I use this no cost option if you already have the equipment.I am not well versed in digital systems so bear with me.
I have my main speakers connected via to my surround amp using the pre-out left & right into my stereo amp when watching films/TV.

I have a laptop with an HDMI port.To listen to hi-res internet radio I connect the laptop to the Surround Amp via HDMI then switch the Surround Amp to 'Pure Direct' so I only get output to the front left/right pre-outs into my stereo amp.

I believe HDMI can handle most digital formats.I could be wrong.
Appears to be very good quality or am I missing something?

legb4rsk
28-01-2018, 13:33
Being a cheapskate I use this no cost option if you already have the equipment.I am not well versed in digital systems so bear with me.
I have my main speakers connected via to my surround amp using the pre-out left & right into my stereo amp when watching films/TV.

I have a laptop with an HDMI port.To listen to hi-res internet radio I connect the laptop to the Surround Amp via HDMI then switch the Surround Amp to 'Pure Direct' so I only get output to the front left/right pre-outs into my stereo amp.

I believe HDMI can handle most digital formats.I could be wrong.
Appears to be very good quality or am I missing something?

struth
28-01-2018, 13:59
i extract the audio from hdmi with an hd audio box. you sound like you are using the amp as equiv

Mikeandvan
07-02-2018, 22:13
Was thinking Pioneer N-50 for streaming now, anyone used these? Cheaper than a Naimicute.

Stratmangler
08-02-2018, 08:14
Was thinking Pioneer N-50 for streaming now, anyone used these? Cheaper than a Naimicute.

I would be very wary of buying any hardware players that currently support Spotify.

Spotify change their delivery method from time to time, and it's not Spotify that has to provide the software patches required. So with the Pioneer N-50, for example, you'll be screwed when Pioneer make the decision not to provide the patches to make things work again.
That day will come, and your N-50 will be useless, and Pioneer will not be interested in fixing the problem. As the N-50 has been around for 5 years or so I suspect that non patch day will be sooner, rather than later.

Stick with stuff that's software based, and well supported.
I have a RasPi running piCorePlayer, which runs LMS for me. LMS is what I run my Squeezebox Touch players on, and LMS has a very dedicated community that continually updates things, when service delivery changes come down the line.

piCorePlayer and LMS are open source, so effectively free. Donations are accepted, as it pays for web space.

Mikeandvan
08-02-2018, 09:10
I would be very wary of buying any hardware players that currently support Spotify.

Spotify change their delivery method from time to time, and it's not Spotify that has to provide the software patches required. So with the Pioneer N-50, for example, you'll be screwed when Pioneer make the decision not to provide the patches to make things work again.
That day will come, and your N-50 will be useless, and Pioneer will not be interested in fixing the problem. As the N-50 has been around for 5 years or so I suspect that non patch day will be sooner, rather than later.

Stick with stuff that's software based, and well supported.
I have a RasPi running piCorePlayer, which runs LMS for me. LMS is what I run my Squeezebox Touch players on, and LMS has a very dedicated community that continually updates things, when service delivery changes come down the line.

piCorePlayer and LMS are open source, so effectively free. Donations are accepted, as it pays for web space.

WHat the hell is a patch? I have no idea what you're talking about! But thanks anyway.

mightymonoped
08-02-2018, 09:40
Apologies if this has already been covered but I'm wondering if the simplest solution to your requirements would be this:

https://www.allo.com/sparky-eu/boss-player.html @ approx £105

This is a complete plug and play solution as you can order it with the streaming system pre-installed.


The Boss player would be connected to your amp via RCA.
It can be accessed via computer, phone, or tablet.
It can be accessed wired or wirelessly.
It will stream Spotify and Youtube content.
It can access most Web Radio (including all BBC stations)
It can access any future music storage system (wired or wirelessly)
It can be updated online easily (using a simple screen on computer, phone or tablet)



and it sounds very good indeed!

mightymonoped
08-02-2018, 09:42
Apologies if this has already been covered but I'm wondering if the simplest solution to your requirements would be this:

https://www.allo.com/sparky-eu/boss-player.html @ approx £105

This is a complete plug and play solution as you can order it with the streaming system pre-installed.


The Boss player would be connected to your amp via RCA.
It can be accessed via computer, phone, or tablet.
It can be accessed wired or wirelessly.
It will stream Spotify and Youtube content.
It can access most Web Radio (including all BBC stations)
It can access any future music storage system (wired or wirelessly)
It can be updated online easily (using a simple screen on computer, phone or tablet)



and it sounds very good indeed!

Forgot the important bit..Order it with the OS = Volumio

Stratmangler
08-02-2018, 09:42
WHat the hell is a patch? I have no idea what you're talking about! But thanks anyway.

A patch is what you use to fix things.
Such as a bicycle inner tube, a leaky roof, or, as in this case, software.

montesquieu
08-02-2018, 09:44
WHat the hell is a patch? I have no idea what you're talking about! But thanks anyway.

There are two approaches to this - use a hardware device built for streaming, or a computer (which is what a Raspberry Pi is, albeit a very small one).

With a hardware-based device, you still need software, this comes in the form of firmware upgrades every so often which are uploaded by various means to the device.

I wouldn't worry too much about spotify in the short term their interface seems to have been pretty stable but the principle is fair enough - at some point, now or in 5 years or whenever, things are likely to change. And with a hardware device you are stuck with whatever DAC they give you which may or may not be up to spec.

Using a computer you have loads of choices. Get pissed off with Spotify, they go bust (possible) or jack their prices up - then go elsewhere. You can try out all sorts of streamer software and service options - at the same time if you want, no hassle just fire them up - and aren't tied to any particular USB receiver or DAC. There are generally multiple choices for control from phones or tablet devices.

The challenge is - it's a computer and needs a bit of setting up. (To be fair so does any approach). An RPi isn't for a neophyte you have to learn to hack it to get it to work at all. I've worked in IT for 20 years and I still got fed up with it. I now use an ancient (9 year old) Macbook - a couple of hundred quid's worth these days - and it works perfectly. That either into a USB DAC or USB-SPDIF converter into a normal DAC, and you are cooking.

I looked at hardware devices before going down the computer route and for me it's a no-brainer.

Mikeandvan
08-02-2018, 09:52
There are two approaches to this - use a hardware device built for streaming, or a computer (which is what a Raspberry Pi is, albeit a very small one).

With a hardware-based device, you still need software, this comes in the form of firmware upgrades every so often which are uploaded by various means to the device.

I wouldn't worry too much about spotify in the short term their interface seems to have been pretty stable but the principle is fair enough - at some point, now or in 5 years or whenever, things are likely to change. And with a hardware device you are stuck with whatever DAC they give you which may or may not be up to spec.

Using a computer you have loads of choices. Get pissed off with Spotify, they go bust (possible) or jack their prices up - then go elsewhere. You can try out all sorts of streamer software and service options - at the same time if you want, no hassle just fire them up - and aren't tied to any particular USB receiver or DAC. There are generally multiple choices for control from phones or tablet devices.

The challenge is - it's a computer and needs a bit of setting up. (To be fair so does any approach). An RPi isn't for a neophyte you have to learn to hack it to get it to work at all. I've worked in IT for 20 years and I still got fed up with it. I now use an ancient (9 year old) Macbook - a couple of hundred quid's worth these days - and it works perfectly. That either into a USB DAC or USB-SPDIF converter into a normal DAC, and you are cooking.

I looked at hardware devices before going down the computer route and for me it's a no-brainer.
Its becoming clearer, sometime this century I might join the download revolution, until then its 33.3 revolutions. No seriously, for some reason I thought because a hifi company made a streamer it might sound better than a laptop, is this not the case?

Stratmangler
08-02-2018, 09:55
Its becoming clearer, sometime this century I might join the download revolution, until then its 33.3 revolutions. No seriously, for some reason I thought because a hifi company made a streamer it might sound better than a laptop, is this not the case?

It'll sound great until it doesn't work.
If there are no patches it will be landfill.

Mikeandvan
08-02-2018, 09:55
Are there any benefits to streamers at all? I mean 'proper' hifi streamers. I don't want my music sounding like a compressed olde worlde mp3 player!

Stratmangler
08-02-2018, 10:04
Are there any benefits to streamers at all?

You get to buy a shiny box that will work for a bit.


I mean 'proper' hifi streamers. I don't want my music sounding like a compressed olde worlde mp3 player!

It doesn't matter how shiny the box is, or which brand name is on it, the defining thing about the sound is going to be the quality of the stream in the first place.

Edward
08-02-2018, 10:24
I looked at hardware devices before going down the computer route and for me it's a no-brainer.

+1

Pretty much any computer made in the last 10 years will give very acceptable results. In fact I had an old Dell machine (probably over 12 years old) and just for the lolz I threw Linux on and a mate is now using it as a JRiver server/renderer. Plays Spotify very nicely. Adam, of this parish, is currently using an old (about 4 years old) Win 10 HP machine of mine running Roon Core with Tidal and he seems well pleased.

struth
08-02-2018, 10:24
laptop, usb cable, usb dac, jriver and deezer hifi. job done

montesquieu
08-02-2018, 10:38
Its becoming clearer, sometime this century I might join the download revolution, until then its 33.3 revolutions. No seriously, for some reason I thought because a hifi company made a streamer it might sound better than a laptop, is this not the case?

You aren't listening to a laptop ... you are listening to digitised sound (sound converted to binary bits) that needs stored, accessed, transported across networks, aligned in time order and decoded to analogue. Most of the hard bits of that are in the domain of computing, not hifi. The only real hifi bit of that is the output stage after the digital to analogue conversion. Everything else is processing in the digital domain.

I'd rather use the best individual components to do this - a Mac with remote ipad control for user interface, the best USB to SPDIF converstion possible, a good tube DAC - than rely on someone's choices of a one-box solution, fixed in metal until its inevitable obscolesce

Sherwood
08-02-2018, 10:56
I will agree that Raspberry Pi based streamers can be a pain to set up. However, I have found the latest version of Volumio to be easy to install. Just follow the step by step instructions or watch the video and you are sorted. I am using an RPi3 with the latest Allo Digione board and the sound quality is exceptional. For around 150 quid all in, it is hard to beat.

In my experience, computer/laptop based solutions are pretty poor. It may be down to the quality of the soundcard, or the "noise" generated by the computer, but they have always sounded harsh and "fuzzy".

Some of the purpose built streamers are good. I have a Cambridge CXN. It is very easy to use and has Spotify built in (for Premium users). The bass and midrange performance is very good, but my Pi based system is much better.

Geoff

Edward
08-02-2018, 10:57
Currently play just vinyl and CD. Want to try streaming, that is downloading music from the internet! I have a laptop, but no idea how to go about all this. Do I need a streamer? My amp is naim 72, so pre digital, so guess I'll need a dac?! Was thinking about getting a Sony 700 or similar, do these have dacs? So with these 2 amps in mind, how do I go about this? Sorry for my complete ignorance........... Budget? Well, normally buy second hand, so I guess £100 - £300. Ta.

Mike, did you try any streaming ideas given in this thread since you posted in October?

Just so you can get a flavour of things I'm willing to help. I can, if you wish, send to you from Amazon a 3.5mm jack/rca cable. This will allow you to connect your laptop to a spare input of your amp. Then it will simply be a matter of booting up your laptop and playing sounds. Willing to chat on the 'phone (or I can remotely login to your laptop) to walk you through things.

Let me know if you are interested and if so send me your contact details via PM.

(small question: is the RCA input on your Naim 72 still free? If not and you still have a din input free I'll order a 3.5mm jack/din cable.)

WESTLOWER
08-02-2018, 11:05
I'd rather use the best individual components to do this - a Mac with remote ipad control for user interface, the best USB to SPDIF converstion possible, a good tube DAC - than rely on someone's choices of a one-box solution, fixed in metal until its inevitable obscolesce

Choosing individual components will give you the flexibility to avoid all the, IMHO, unnecessary filtering and a host of unnecessary inputs. One box, badged solutions do their best to cover as many connectivity scenarios and file formats as possible. Obviously that approach is to maximise companies potential sales. Not everyone needs a swiss army knife.

Mikeandvan
08-02-2018, 11:15
Mike, did you try any streaming ideas given in this thread since you posted in October?

Just so you can get a flavour of things I'm willing to help. I can, if you wish, send to you from Amazon a 3.5mm jack/rca cable. This will allow you to connect your laptop to a spare input of your amp. Then it will simply be a matter of booting up your laptop and playing sounds. Willing to chat on the 'phone (or I can remotely login to your laptop) to walk you through things.

Let me know if you are interested and if so send me your contact details via PM.

(small question: is the RCA input on your Naim 72 still free? If not and you still have a din input free I'll order a 3.5mm jack/din cable.)
No I didn't! I was gonna buy a Naim unitiqute, but then thought twice as it has low power output, and I might want to try monitor type speakers in the future, and they need at least 70w. Thanks for your help, think I'll try something like Raspberry PI soonish. The Naim is gone, currently a Harmon Kardoin hk6500 is on its way to me. I have a 3.5 jack plug, didn't realise it was that easy.

Edward
08-02-2018, 11:23
The 3.5mm jack will give a flavour of what is possible. It will be the start of your journey. Once you see the possibilities you can go from there to higher end things.

Let me know if you want 1 on 1 help once you get the new amp.

Sent via Tapatalk

WESTLOWER
08-02-2018, 11:32
The 3.5mm jack will give a flavour of what is possible. It will be the start of your journey. Once you see the possibilities you can go from there to higher end things.

Let me know if you want 1 one 1 help once you get the new amp.

Sent via Tapatalk

you are a bloody good chap Edward! Proper AoS gold badge material! and there are a few on here who really go beyond :clapclapclap:

Mikeandvan
08-02-2018, 11:41
The 3.5mm jack will give a flavour of what is possible. It will be the start of your journey. Once you see the possibilities you can go from there to higher end things.

Let me know if you want 1 one 1 help once you get the new amp.

Sent via Tapatalk

Thanks very much Edward, I'll let you know how I get on.

Stratmangler
08-02-2018, 11:45
One thing that should be pointed out is that not all of the streaming setups are equal, as far as RasPi is concerned.

If you go full hog and rip your CDs to a local (meaning in your home) library (for example, all of my CDs are ripped to FLAC, and stored on a NAS box), you need to be aware that a fair number of RasPi builds require connection to the outside world in order to function at all.
They connect back to a remote server, and stream information back to your device, which is fine, just so long as your broadband is working fine.

I recently had an issue with my broadband service, and as a result lost connectivity to external services (Spotify/BBC iPlayer).
I have good neighbours, and one of them gave me access to their WiFi so I could get internet access for general internet use, but I was still screwed for internet access for the streaming services.
I could still play my local library, because it is managed by my RasPi running piCorePlayer, which in turn runs LMS (everything is managed locally).

piCorePlayer can also run as a self contained player - it is quite happy performing both server and player duties simultaneously.
The server stuff goes under the title of LMS, and the player side of it goes under the title Squeezelite.

montesquieu
08-02-2018, 11:47
I will agree that Raspberry Pi based streamers can be a pain to set up. However, I have found the latest version of Volumio to be easy to install. Just follow the step by step instructions or watch the video and you are sorted. I am using an RPi3 with the latest Allo Digione board and the sound quality is exceptional. For around 150 quid all in, it is hard to beat.

In my experience, computer/laptop based solutions are pretty poor. It may be down to the quality of the soundcard, or the "noise" generated by the computer, but they have always sounded harsh and "fuzzy".

Some of the purpose built streamers are good. I have a Cambridge CXN. It is very easy to use and has Spotify built in (for Premium users). The bass and midrange performance is very good, but my Pi based system is much better.

Geoff

I used a HifiBerry Digi+ board in mine, output to an Audio Note DAC.

The Mac into a proper, self-powered USB interface sounded better.

There are no limitations at all in using a laptop into a streaming device via USB (they run off DC after all) the issue is the quality of the USB interface. (Including the ones in many supposedly 'usb' DACs.)

Using Audio Out via headphone jack is a different matter of course which is where PC laptops in particular acquired their bad reputation - Macs are better of course as their sound capabilities have always been streets ahead, PCs have generally required additional hardware to match what Macs do OOTB.

struth
08-02-2018, 11:59
never tried a digi board with my pi. always had i2s dac board on.

Sherwood
08-02-2018, 12:13
I used a HifiBerry Digi+ board in mine, output to an Audio Note DAC.

The Mac into a proper, self-powered USB interface sounded better.

There are no limitations at all in using a laptop into a streaming device via USB (they run off DC after all) the issue is the quality of the USB interface. (Including the ones in many supposedly 'usb' DACs.)

Using Audio Out via headphone jack is a different matter of course which is where PC laptops in particular acquired their bad reputation - Macs are better of course as their sound capabilities have always been streets ahead, PCs have generally required additional hardware to match what Macs do OOTB.

I agree that most PC sound boards are rubbish which is why I have gone for upgraded boards in the past (both internal and external). Apple pcs are better in this respect but (in my experience and opinion) still not good enough.

I will concede that Mac's are easy to use and that has some appeal to certain users but on sound quality, I think the latest batch of pi boards are far superior. Yes, there are better streamers, but you have to spend an awful lot more for a small improvement.

Geoff

Edward
08-02-2018, 12:18
Thanks very much Edward, I'll let you know how I get on.

Pleasure. To use an analogy you already have the car to start this journey so you can begin to see the road ahead, there will be plenty of chance to slowly upgrade to a custom built supercar. The mini jack will get you into first gear.

Ok enough already of silly car analogies. :)

montesquieu
08-02-2018, 12:34
I will concede that Mac's are easy to use and that has some appeal to certain users but on sound quality, I think the latest batch of pi boards are far superior.

Geoff

Far superior? I think that a dubious assertion to make, given that RPi boards are churned out for a few dollars and the add-on boards the same, that an RPi must automatically sound better than a Mac laptop with full spec USB capability and (in my case) £900 worth of master clock + asynchronous USB-SPDIF interface.

Sherwood
08-02-2018, 12:46
Far superior? I think that a dubious assertion to make, given that RPi boards are churned out for a few dollars and the add-on boards the same, that an RPi must automatically sound better than a Mac laptop with full spec USB capability and (in my case) £900 worth of master clock + asynchronous USB-SPDIF interface.

I can only go by my ears and what sounds best to me. I am currently using the latest Allo spdif board the Digione. Through a Caiman SEG DAC (and an M-DAC) it sounded better to my ears than a (borrowed) Naim DC5 SI. Somehow the Digione just stripped away background noise and "haze" to give a better insight into the recording.

Geoff

montesquieu
08-02-2018, 12:49
I can only go by my ears and what sounds best to me. I am currently using the latest Allo spdif board the Digione. Through a Caiman SEG DAC (and an M-DAC) it sounded better to my ears than a (borrowed) Naim DC5 SI. Somehow the Digione just stripped away background noise and "haze" to give a better insight into the recording.

Geoff

And it's far superior to the Mac you heard into a top quality converter?

The Black Adder
08-02-2018, 12:52
Far superior? I think that a dubious assertion to make, given that RPi boards are churned out for a few dollars and the add-on boards the same, that an RPi must automatically sound better than a Mac laptop with full spec USB capability and (in my case) £900 worth of master clock + asynchronous USB-SPDIF interface.As much as apple kit is very nice I don't think price/worth in this case has anything to do with it. Have you tried the RPI solution? I think you may be very surprised. It's an excellent solution.

The RPI with certain DAC's have a very high end reputation. IQAudio and Allo are just a couple which I have and still use.

Regardless of the high mass production, the sound I think would easily come up to par with £900 worth of apple kit.

Sent from my 9001X using Tapatalk

Sherwood
08-02-2018, 12:57
And it's far superior to the Mac you heard into a top quality converter?

The Apple system I heard was in a dealer show system in the USA a while back. It was with a Benchmark DAC though I cannot recall the model. It sounded good but not amazing. Have you heard one of the latest Pi Boards into your DAC?

Geoff

montesquieu
08-02-2018, 13:07
As much as apple kit is very nice I don't think price/worth in this case has anything to do with it. Have you tried the RPI solution? I think you may be very surprised. It's an excellent solution.

The RPI with certain DAC's have a very high end reputation. IQAudio and Allo are just a couple which I have and still use.

Regardless of the high mass production, the sound I think would easily come up to par with £900 worth of apple kit.

Sent from my 9001X using Tapatalk

Yes as it says above I got hacked off with the RPi and Digi+ board solution. Too much of a faff (I tried all the main software options), patently not as good as the Mac direct into the upgraded Gustard U12 USB-SPDIF converter I had previously, and well short of what I'm hearing into the Mutec MC3+USB. All this into my Audio Note DAC.

George has made the claim that the RPi with an Allo board is 'far superior', seemingly under any circumstances, than any sort of Mac setup, based on one dealer dem some years ago into an unspecified midrange DAC, presumably with an internal USB converter. I can't see how that claim is supportable, however much he likes his current setup.

Sherwood
08-02-2018, 14:03
Yes as it says above I got hacked off with the RPi and Digi+ board solution. Too much of a faff (I tried all the main software options), patently not as good as the Mac direct into the upgraded Gustard U12 USB-SPDIF converter I had previously, and well short of what I'm hearing into the Mutec MC3+USB. All this into my Audio Note DAC.

George has made the claim that the RPi with an Allo board is 'far superior', seemingly under any circumstances, than any sort of Mac setup, based on one dealer dem some years ago into an unspecified midrange DAC, presumably with an internal USB converter. I can't see how that claim is supportable, however much he likes his current setup.

First, I don't know who George is, and second, I made the point that to "my ears" it was better. A while back was not years ago, it was in November 2016. I have just looked up the Benchmark DAC, and see that it was the DAC3 which had just been released. If that is midrange, than we obviously have different hifi budgets.

When the dealer substituted a mid-range CDP for the Mac front end, the performance picked up markedly. I also, had a DIGI+ and would not rate it in the same category as the Digione. The latter is far more revealing, which it should be at 4 times the price of the basic DIGI+. Still very cheap though.

I am not sure why you seem to be getting so irritated that I have a different experience of Mac audio to you.

Geoff (a.k.a. George)

montesquieu
08-02-2018, 14:08
First, I don't know who George is, and second, I made the point that to "my ears" it was better. A while back was not years ago, it was in November 2016. I have just looked up the Benchmark DAC, and see that it was the DAC3 which had just been released. If that is midrange, than we obviously have different hifi budgets.

When the dealer substituted a mid-range CDP for the Mac front end, the performance picked up markedly. I also, had a DIGI+ and would not rate it in the same category as the Digione. The latter is far more revealing, which it should be at 4 times the price of the basic DIGI+. Still very cheap though.

I am not sure why you seem to be getting so irritated that I have a different experience of Mac audio to you.

Geoff (a.k.a. George)

I'm not one for any kind of absolutes .... specifically to have Mac as an option waved away because you heard one iffy dem pissed me off. To say any RPi is always and everywhere 'far superior' on that basis is just bollocks and if were me I'd have noted that my statement was a bit daft (and unsupportable) and rowed back from it.

And sorry for the typo.

Sherwood
08-02-2018, 14:18
I'm not one for any kind of absolutes .... specifically to have Mac as an option waved away because you heard one iffy dem pissed me off. To say any RPi is always and everywhere 'far superior' on that basis is just bollocks and if were me I'd have noted that my statement was a bit daft (and unsupportable) and rowed back from it.

And sorry for the typo.

Again, I am expressing an opinion based on my subjective experience. The "iffy" demo I referred to was not the first time I had heard a mac based system, and was very good once the Mac was replaced as the source. You may, and clearly do, disagree, but that remains my judgement. taking the Mac out removed a degree of veiling that was very noticeable.

Geoff

montesquieu
08-02-2018, 14:29
Again, I am expressing an opinion based on my subjective experience. The "iffy" demo I referred to was not the first time I had heard a mac based system, and was very good once the Mac was replaced as the source. You may, and clearly do, disagree, but that remains my judgement. taking the Mac out removed a degree of veiling that was very noticeable.

Geoff

What you said was:




I will concede that Mac's are easy to use and that has some appeal to certain users but on sound quality, I think the latest batch of pi boards are far superior.

Geoff

The latest badge of pi boards, 'far superior' to Macs, full stop, no attempt at qualification.

On the basis of one dodgy dem.

Utter bollocks by any standard.

struth
08-02-2018, 14:31
its horses for courses tbh. i like my pi but prefer the jriver for my own music. of all the streaming services, spotify is most convenient and sounds very good for lossy, but of the lossless i think deezer sounds best and is a better looking/using experience too....but thats just my pref.

WESTLOWER
08-02-2018, 14:32
confused..I thought the delivery of the file up to the conversion, was of far less importance. Maybe i'm wrong.
I was led to believe that a good source file (red book or above) delivered to a quality USB / Spdif converter
and then fed to a well built and well chosen component based DAC was what really mattered?

I suppose it depends on what the control software is doing to the file pre delivery to the USB / Spdif converter.
Personally I want the software to do as little as possible and deliver the whole file unmolested.
Are we now saying that different OS on the delivery computers have different sounds? I can't understand that!
Are we not bypassing the sound cards in the computers by using the kit down the chain?

Sherwood
08-02-2018, 14:43
What you said was:



The latest badge of pi boards, 'far superior' to Macs, full stop, no attempt at qualification.

On the basis of one dodgy dem.

Utter bollocks by any standard.

Again your response perplexes me. I said it was not the first time I had heard a Mac front end. You say it was a dodgy dem, it was not. I had gone in to audition amplifiers and was very pleased with the audition, once the Mac was substituted. My audition improved with the CDP as source.

I clearly indicated a subjective preference using the phrase "I think.."

You are mis-representing my postings, and frankly getting too excitable about the whole business. Calm down. Life is too short.

Enjoy your Mac and fancy DAC but accept that others may have different preferences.

Edward
08-02-2018, 14:47
confused..I thought the delivery of the file up to the conversion, was of far less importance. Maybe i'm wrong.
I was led to believe that a good source file (red book or above) delivered to a quality USB / Spdif converter
and then fed to a well built and well chosen component based DAC was what really mattered?

I suppose it depends on what the control software is doing to the file pre delivery to the USB / Spdif converter.
Personally I want the software to do as little as possible and deliver the whole file unmolested.
Are we now saying that different OS on the delivery computers have different sounds? I can't understand that!
Are we not bypassing the sound cards in the computers by using the kit down the chain?


I believe a great deal is down to timing issues (see Tom's Mutec reclocker). I had my DAC USB board replaced/upgraded and there was a noticeable improvement in microdetail coming through due to the DAC USB having better timing (or rather taking charge of the timing vs. what the timing the computer has).

I also noticed an improvement (not night/day) when I upgraded the lastleg of the ethernet link to a SoTM ethernet cable. Still can't figure out why the improvement but I guess the signal was less molested.

Sherwood
08-02-2018, 14:49
confused..I thought the delivery of the file up to the conversion, was of far less importance. Maybe i'm wrong.
I was led to believe that a good source file (red book or above) delivered to a quality USB / Spdif converter
and then fed to a well built and well chosen component based DAC was what really mattered?

I suppose it depends on what the control software is doing to the file pre delivery to the USB / Spdif converter.
Personally I want the software to do as little as possible and deliver the whole file unmolested.
Are we now saying that different OS on the delivery computers have different sounds? I can't understand that!
Are we not bypassing the sound cards in the computers by using the kit down the chain?

I won't pretend to understand all the technical bits, but I understand that the new Allo Digione board was designed to deliver a "bit perfect" stream to a DAC with minimum noise and jitter. That is why it only has an RCA coaxial connection and not an optical one. On the basis of what I am hearing through my system, it has achieved its goal. It is a big improvement on the HifiBerry DIGI+ that I had been using. No, it is not the best source in the world, but for 150 quid, you have to spend a lot more to get a significant improvement.

Geoff

montesquieu
08-02-2018, 14:54
Again your response perplexes me. I said it was not the first time I had heard a Mac front end. You say it was a dodgy dem, it was not. I had gone in to audition amplifiers and was very pleased with the audition, once the Mac was substituted. My audition improved with the CDP as source.

I clearly indicated a subjective preference using the phrase "I think.."

You are mis-representing my postings, and frankly getting too excitable about the whole business. Calm down. Life is too short.

Enjoy your Mac and fancy DAC but accept that others may have different preferences.

Go back and read what you wrote.

Mikeandvan
06-03-2018, 11:15
Finally I dip my foot into the water. Just got a 4 year old Pioneer n-50 streamer off the bay for £180, signed up to Spotify premium.

Edward
06-03-2018, 11:27
Do you like? :cool:

Mikeandvan
06-03-2018, 14:45
Do you like? :cool:

Oh, it hasn't arrived yet. I';ve got Spotify now, that took less than 5 minutes! On my laptop I mean. How does Spotify work? I was under the impression you could stream almost any track by any artist.

Edward
06-03-2018, 15:11
Indeed Spotify has most albums/tracks you can imagine.

The Pioneer looks like a nice streamer. Hopefully it comes with the optional wifi module - or perhaps your router is near to where you will be putting the Pioneer.

Whilst you are waiting for the Pioneer why not simply connect up your laptop to your hifi with the cable you already have and listen to Spotify so you can get a sense of things?

struth
06-03-2018, 15:18
yes there is a search bar. put in what you want and save what u like ..thats with premium.. you can use connect bar at bottom to send or control to other units. ideal with your new streamer. meantime you could pick on tablet and play from pc

Mikeandvan
06-03-2018, 15:31
Indeed Spotify has most albums/tracks you can imagine.

The Pioneer looks like a nice streamer. Hopefully it comes with the optional wifi module - or perhaps your router is near to where you will be putting the Pioneer.

Whilst you are waiting for the Pioneer why not simply connect up your laptop to your hifi with the cable you already have and listen to Spotify so you can get a sense of things?
Oh , can't be bothered, Pioneer is on its way. I think it needs an additional wifi module, not sure yet, will report back! Thanks.

Mikeandvan
06-03-2018, 15:32
yes there is a search bar. put in what you want and save what u like ..thats with premium.. you can use connect bar at bottom to send or control to other units. ideal with your new streamer. meantime you could pick on tablet and play from pc
I got the premium, only £10 p/m apparently, 1st month free.

Mikeandvan
06-03-2018, 15:38
Indeed Spotify has most albums/tracks you can imagine.

The Pioneer looks like a nice streamer. Hopefully it comes with the optional wifi module - or perhaps your router is near to where you will be putting the Pioneer.

Whilst you are waiting for the Pioneer why not simply connect up your laptop to your hifi with the cable you already have and listen to Spotify so you can get a sense of things?

The router is about 2 metres away from my hifi, I've heard its best to use a wired connection anyway, I certainly want the best sound I can get from streaming. What sort of cable do I need for that?

struth
06-03-2018, 15:40
its pretty good. i had it for a long time until i found a way to not need the connect feature which is spotify's greatest plus point. sound is pretty decent too and will usually sound better via the web player on a chrome browser. plus point there is if you get a chromecast you can cast it too if u wish, but spotify has i think a bigger bandwidth on browser and sounds better for me anyway.

Edward
06-03-2018, 15:48
The router is about 2 metres away from my hifi, I've heard its best to use a wired connection anyway, I certainly want the best sound I can get from streaming. What sort of cable do I need for that?

A wired connection is always better and frankly easier. Just a bog-standard Ethernet cable will do. You may well have one or more - often routers will come with one. They only cost a quid to two if you don't have one.

struth
06-03-2018, 15:48
https://www.amazon.co.uk/CSL-Ethernet-Gigabit-1000Mbit-compatible/dp/B00J3UYNII/ref=sr_1_4?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1520351275&sr=1-4&keywords=ethernet+cable

ethernet cable like this.

Mikeandvan
06-03-2018, 19:33
Thanks both of you.

Mikeandvan
08-03-2018, 15:38
Bollocks, I don't think I can connect the N-50-K to Spotify. I set it up, Ethernet cable, and analogue cable to amp, set up Spotify apps on phone and laptop, but it cannot find device. Looking on internet it seems these older N-50 weren't compatible with Spotify, **** it. Internet radio works ok. Looks like this was complete waste of time.

struth
08-03-2018, 15:41
oops.. that's a bugger. could try a chromecast audio... they are about £30... work pretty good.

Edward
08-03-2018, 15:45
When I looked at the spec (or perhaps it was a review) of the Pioneer I thought I saw Spotify was enabled.

Perhaps you need to refresh the Pioneer in some way as I imagine Spotify has updated its player.

Perhaps contact Spotify - they are typically quite responsive.

E

struth
08-03-2018, 15:58
think it does airplay so you could perhaps capture via that from an ipad. think a chromecast would be best bang for buck. no it doesnt do spotify ive checked so you will need to work around it.

Sherwood
08-03-2018, 15:59
Bollocks, I don't think I can connect the N-50-K to Spotify. I set it up, Ethernet cable, and analogue cable to amp, set up Spotify apps on phone and laptop, but it cannot find device. Looking on internet it seems these older N-50 weren't compatible with Spotify, **** it. Internet radio works ok. Looks like this was complete waste of time.

Is there a firmware update?

Edward
08-03-2018, 16:01
Another thing you could check is to to see if Airplay is possible on the N50 and use Spotify on your phone and bridge to the Pioneer via Airplay. That would be a cost free option. Or as Grant says go the Chromecast route. Many other routes as well.

[edit]

Oh I see that Grant has also mentioned the Airplay method as I was typing.

Mikeandvan
08-03-2018, 16:16
I don't have any apple devices, I think Airplay is for apple devices only. I am trying to check for firmware updates, as I think the later models of the n-50k are Spotify compatible.

Mikeandvan
08-03-2018, 16:19
What does a chromecast do? Think I'll just put a bloody record on.:doh:

struth
08-03-2018, 16:25
https://store.google.com/gb/product/chromecast_audio. this will work. it can output digital on toslink mini or analogue using its built in dac on a 3.5mm plug. then into your amp. sound quality is good with spotify. will work with most smartphones and tablets and pc's.

as i say, it should have airplay so if you have apple products then you could try that before spending cash. ive only used it with films to my apple tv box but it will work.

jandl100
08-03-2018, 16:26
What does a chromecast do? Think I'll just put a bloody record on.:doh:

:lol: I know what you mean.

I bypass all the technobabble and fancy widgets and just take a USB cable from my laptop to my DAC. Signed up to Spotify after trying a few music streaming sites.
Couldn't be happier - I stream 99.9% of my music now. Sorted. :)

struth
08-03-2018, 16:29
:lol: I know what you mean.

I bypass all the technobabble and fancy widgets and just take a USB cable from my laptop to my DAC. Signed up to Spotify after trying a few music streaming sites.
Couldn't be happier - I stream 99.9% of my music now. Sorted. :)

i use a cable too... but i can use technobabble

Mikeandvan
08-03-2018, 16:31
Bloody hell, might be easier to buy a used I phone!I just wanted a streamer that would be able to take Spotify through the app on my laptop or android, I didn't want to have to connect my laptop to the streamer.

Mikeandvan
08-03-2018, 16:39
Seller is being super helpful, he said - "Hi. If it helps, I can send you an old iPod touch I've got lying around which you can put the Spotify app and Pioneer Control app on and use that."
Does that sound like it might work?

jandl100
08-03-2018, 17:02
Bloody hell, might be easier to buy a used I phone!I just wanted a streamer that would be able to take Spotify through the app on my laptop or android, I didn't want to have to connect my laptop to the streamer.

I connect my laptop directly (1 cable) to my hifi.
I don't use a Spotify app, I just log on to the Spotify site on my lappy, choose an album, and press Play.

struth
08-03-2018, 17:09
Seller is being super helpful, he said - "Hi. If it helps, I can send you an old iPod touch I've got lying around which you can put the Spotify app and Pioneer Control app on and use that."
Does that sound like it might work?

Should do with airplay on the unit if it works...other option is a bluetooth sender, and receiver .
Its a shame as this is why u bought the unit so there wasnt this hassle... but as has been said b4 the likes of spotify can at will de connect any of these streamers if they choose. This is why i prefer to use my pc and cable.

Mikeandvan
08-03-2018, 17:33
Should do with airplay on the unit if it works...other option is a bluetooth sender, and receiver .
Its a shame as this is why u bought the unit so there wasnt this hassle... but as has been said b4 the likes of spotify can at will de connect any of these streamers if they choose. This is why i prefer to use my pc and cable.

I want the best sq I can get, so I guess Bluetooth wouldn't be as good, tbh I've really no idea when it comes to streaming. Its very complicated. Streamer was only £180, so not a big deal if it doesn't work out, can always sell it. I just don't know why they don't make them all compatible with everything!

Sherwood
08-03-2018, 17:43
I want the best sq I can get, so I guess Bluetooth wouldn't be as good, tbh I've really no idea when it comes to streaming. Its very complicated. Streamer was only £180, so not a big deal if it doesn't work out, can always sell it. I just don't know why they don't make them all compatible with everything!

Mike,

I think there have been many suggestions on this thread which would work for you, though you needed to be specific about the services you intended to use. I would refer you to the post I made earlier and highlight two very simple solutions: the Belkin HD Bluetooth Streamer and the WD Live TV devices. Both inexpensive and easy to use.

Geoff

Stratmangler
08-03-2018, 18:59
I just don't know why they don't make them all compatible with everything!

That's easy to answer.
Money.
It's not in any equipment manufacturer's interests to perpetually support equipment with new software when there's no money in it for them.
When you have a traditional audio manufacturer that shifts boxes they'll incorporate the latest things with the latest box.
If one of the services (such as Spotify) decides to change its method of delivery, where's the interest for the box shifter to support the change? There isn't any interest.
Which is why I tried to steer you towards something more software based.

Mikeandvan
08-03-2018, 20:32
Sellers gonna send me his old Ipod touch free of charge! He says this works with Airplay, though I'm sure there'll be another hitch!

struth
08-03-2018, 20:37
decent seller

Stratmangler
08-03-2018, 20:53
Seller is being super helpful, he said - "Hi. If it helps, I can send you an old iPod touch I've got lying around which you can put the Spotify app and Pioneer Control app on and use that."
Does that sound like it might work?

What does it say in the instruction manual?

Mikeandvan
08-03-2018, 22:28
What does it say in the instruction manual?

Nothing!! Seller is actually gonna send me an ipod for nothing! He is super nice, I'll tell him to join this forum! He assures me I can use the ipods 'Airplay' feature with Spotify as he did himself. But, I won't count my chickens just yet!

Stratmangler
09-03-2018, 11:51
I found the manual online, and it states that it (N-50-K) is compatible with iPod/iPad/iPhone.

Mikeandvan
09-03-2018, 13:16
I found the manual online, and it states that it (N-50-K) is compatible with iPod/iPad/iPhone.

Thanks Chris, its plastered all over the box as well! Thing is when I read online reviews before buying it, none mentioned the exclusivity to apple devices! As far as streaming Spotify and other online streaming services goes. I think I mistook it for its later model which I'm sure is Spotify ready with all devices, must say streaming is way more complicated than any other audio format. I knew absolutely nothing about streaming before, I'm slowly learning bits and pieces now. I just wanted the one box and a remote handset to listen to Spotify, but I now realise that I can stream through my laptop - wired to the streamer and listen that way, without it being too much of a pain. Basically I just want to listen to loads of music without having to seek out the vinyl versions on Ebay, which is how I used to listen but I feel life is too short and there is too much music around for that! So anyway, once I've actually got this thing working, I suppose I'll soon discover the best way of listening - SQ wise, I may end up preferring a wired laptop connection, or even downloading tracks on to USB sticks, who knows, I've no idea!
I'm just really lucky the seller is so helpful!

Mikeandvan
10-03-2018, 23:22
So the ipod has arrived, and guess what? Spotify needs ios version 9 to work, but the phone is 4th generation and it seems it doesn't support ios 9, only as far as ios 6, doesn't surprise me in the least!! Fucking apple! So now I have to go out and spend £200 on a fucking ipod just to get Spotify on a streamer I paid £180 for!! LOL. Can anyone recommend another streaming service I can use via this streamer using remote handset (whether it be ipod - 4th gen! - or android - moto G4, or laptop.

struth
11-03-2018, 02:02
not good.

do u have any apple devices? if so you should be able to use them. if you just have a pc or android stuff, as I say, you can connect a chromecast for £30 to your amp, or the unit if it has an input and cast music from one of your devices to the chromecast.
Sorry but best i can think of

Edward
11-03-2018, 09:53
Mike

Sorry your latest effort has not worked out. In this thread you have been given various ideas and with the risk of yet another here is another idea.

Forget about using the Pioneer as a streamer but use it simply as a DAC. In fact the N50 has a good DAC and goes to 24/192 (the N50A goes even higher).

So to use the Pioneer as a DAC simply connect it to your laptop via USB, install Spotify on your laptop and press 'play'. Simples.:)

Well actually you may have to go through one or two small steps but only need to be done once. For example:

1. You will need a USB cable. You may well have one lying around - it is the exact same format as most printers use.
2. There are two USB inputs on your Pioneer - use the one that corresponds to the U shaped one - the other one is for USB sticks etc.
3. You may have to install a DAC driver on your Laptop. Not sure which Windows version you have. If you have Windows 10 version 1709 then the drivers may install automatically. If the driver does not install automatically then follow instructions here (http://www.pioneer-audiovisual.eu/uk/node/9216).

For added functionality and assuming you have a smartphone of some sort install the Spotify app on your phone. If you do this and Spotify is running on your Laptop then you will be given the option of using Spotify on your phone as a remote controller where the music will play on your Laptop (and hence to your DAC and HiFi.)

E


By the way I read it is not possible for your Pioneer unit to upgraded to the latest Spotify version.

mikeyb
11-03-2018, 10:30
That's easy to answer.
Money.
It's not in any equipment manufacturer's interests to perpetually support equipment with new software when there's no money in it for them.
When you have a traditional audio manufacturer that shifts boxes they'll incorporate the latest things with the latest box.
If one of the services (such as Spotify) decides to change its method of delivery, where's the interest for the box shifter to support the change? There isn't any interest.
Which is why I tried to steer you towards something more software based.

They did break something, Spotify Connect no longer works on my SoTm streamer as Spotify updated librespot and it now no longer links to my SoTm.

This is always the danger with streamers which is why I’ve not bought a one box solution, too easy to make it obsolete.

I’ve let SoTm know there’s an issue, Auralic have the same issues with their Spotify app I believe, fingers crossed for a fix soon, Volspotconnect2 for Volumio has already been fixed by its developer so it can’t be a major issue to cure.

walpurgis
11-03-2018, 10:35
Having an occasional read of this thread makes me glad I stick with CD and records. :D

Stratmangler
11-03-2018, 11:04
They did break something, Spotify Connect no longer works on my SoTm streamer as Spotify updated librespot and it now no longer links to my SoTm.

This is always the danger with streamers which is why I’ve not bought a one box solution, too easy to make it obsolete.

I’ve let SoTm know there’s an issue, Auralic have the same issues with their Spotify app I believe, fingers crossed for a fix soon, Volspotconnect2 for Volumio has already been fixed by its developer so it can’t be a major issue to cure.

Hopefully SoTM and Auralic have the will to update things this time round.
In 5 years time they will want to sell you a shiny new box, so the will to fix the issue could have evaporated.

My Squeezebox Touch has obsolete for how many years now?
And I have capability to access ALL the streaming services that get mentioned.
Funny that, isn't it?
And as changes come along, which they inevitably will, then it takes a bit of code writing by members of the Open Source community and the problem gets fixed.
There's no commercial interest, and no money is asked for.
I will add, that I have a RasPi running piCorePlayer, which in turn does the LMS running duties, so online streams and local library are accessed from one location, and by multiple interfaces (laptop/Smartphone/the player's touch screen/IR remote).

If my Squeezebox Touch players all die, then they can be replaced by a RasPi build that's supported by piCorePlayer, and that's including the software to permit access using a RasPi touch screen.

When you consider the flexibility that's available, is it any wonder that I have little impetus to change the way that I have things running?
And for those that have issues with RasPis crashing, why not try something stable?
My setup is as rock solid as it can be.

Once in a while I'll get an update, apply it, and the server side of things will reboot. Very occasionally something won't come back on the server interface, and another reboot brings back the missing items.
That's as scary as it gets, and I get on with listening to music instead of buggering about with kit :cool:

mikeyb
11-03-2018, 11:04
Having an occasional read of this thread makes me glad I stick with CD and records. :D

Funnily enough, I love my streaming but having vinyl too has made me realise that I haven’t missed Spotify streaming all that much in my main system.

Vinyl Rocks !

Stratmangler
11-03-2018, 11:08
Having an occasional read of this thread makes me glad I stick with CD and records. :D

Wassat, Grampa?

struth
11-03-2018, 11:10
majority of my listening is on cans so all of that is streaming, either my music or deezer from the laptop. i can send it to main system too but usually play cd's and vinyl there.

Stratmangler
11-03-2018, 11:12
Funnily enough, I love my streaming but having vinyl too has made me realise that I haven’t missed Spotify streaming all that much in my main system.

Vinyl Rocks !

I still spin the black stuff when the mood takes me. And it still rocks.
Most of the time it's Squeezeboxes wot I listen to, and they just deliver day after day after day.
I don't have a CD player at home.

Mikeandvan
11-03-2018, 12:38
So, I'm thinking now of trying other streaming services. As I have a fairly new Moto G4, so operating system will be compatible with many. Thing is can I use this with my pioneer N-50, no fucking idea, this is complicated.

Stratmangler
11-03-2018, 12:55
So, I'm thinking now of trying other streaming services. As I have a fairly new Moto G4, so operating system will be compatible with many. Thing is can I use this with my pioneer N-50, no fucking idea, this is complicated.

Do you want the simplest answer, Mike?

If you want to do Spotify, get a ChromeCast audio device, and connect it to your N-50 using the optical (Toslink) input.
Cast your Spotify audio from the Moto G4 at the ChromeCast Audio device, and it will pass digits to the N-50.
You'll need to have the ChromeCast Audio unit connected to your WiFi, and your Moto G4 too, but that's as complicated as it gets, other than selecting the optical input on the N-50 as your playing source.

Sherwood
11-03-2018, 13:06
Do you want the simplest answer, Mike?

If you want to do Spotify, get a ChromeCast audio device, and connect it to your N-50 using the optical (Toslink) input.
Cast your Spotify audio from the Moto G4 at the ChromeCast Audio device, and it will pass digits to the N-50.
You'll need to have the ChromeCast Audio unit connected to your WiFi, and your Moto G4 too, but that's as complicated as it gets, other than selecting the optical input on the N-50 as your playing source.

+1

Bourneendboy
11-03-2018, 13:40
Do you want the simplest answer, Mike?

If you want to do Spotify, get a ChromeCast audio device, and connect it to your N-50 using the optical (Toslink) input.
Cast your Spotify audio from the Moto G4 at the ChromeCast Audio device, and it will pass digits to the N-50.
You'll need to have the ChromeCast Audio unit connected to your WiFi, and your Moto G4 too, but that's as complicated as it gets, other than selecting the optical input on the N-50 as your playing source.

Got to agree with this!

Saying that, now that my Digione Player is up and running and having access to Spotify Connect, there's no reason why this shouldn't be just as simple.

Mikeandvan
11-03-2018, 13:46
Do you want the simplest answer, Mike?

If you want to do Spotify, get a ChromeCast audio device, and connect it to your N-50 using the optical (Toslink) input.
Cast your Spotify audio from the Moto G4 at the ChromeCast Audio device, and it will pass digits to the N-50.
You'll need to have the ChromeCast Audio unit connected to your WiFi, and your Moto G4 too, but that's as complicated as it gets, other than selecting the optical input on the N-50 as your playing source.

Thanks, might have to do that. What exactly does the Chromecast do?

Stratmangler
11-03-2018, 13:53
Thanks, might have to do that. What exactly does the Chromecast do?

It's a WiFi connected receiver.
You set it up on your network (don't panic, it's easy to do), and when you open the Spotify app on your Smartphone you have the option to cast it at your unit.
The streaming from your phone to the Chromecast is over WiFi.

Mikeandvan
11-03-2018, 13:55
Mike

Sorry your latest effort has not worked out. In this thread you have been given various ideas and with the risk of yet another here is another idea.

Forget about using the Pioneer as a streamer but use it simply as a DAC. In fact the N50 has a good DAC and goes to 24/192 (the N50A goes even higher).

So to use the Pioneer as a DAC simply connect it to your laptop via USB, install Spotify on your laptop and press 'play'. Simples.:)

Well actually you may have to go through one or two small steps but only need to be done once. For example:

1. You will need a USB cable. You may well have one lying around - it is the exact same format as most printers use.
2. There are two USB inputs on your Pioneer - use the one that corresponds to the U shaped one - the other one is for USB sticks etc.
3. You may have to install a DAC driver on your Laptop. Not sure which Windows version you have. If you have Windows 10 version 1709 then the drivers may install automatically. If the driver does not install automatically then follow instructions here (http://www.pioneer-audiovisual.eu/uk/node/9216).

For added functionality and assuming you have a smartphone of some sort install the Spotify app on your phone. If you do this and Spotify is running on your Laptop then you will be given the option of using Spotify on your phone as a remote controller where the music will play on your Laptop (and hence to your DAC and HiFi.)

E


By the way I read it is not possible for your Pioneer unit to upgraded to the latest Spotify version.

Thanks Edward, so when you plug your laptop directly into the Pioneer then it acts merely as a dac? TBH I don't even know what a streamer does!

Mikeandvan
11-03-2018, 14:05
What about Bluetooth? The Pioneer N-50K doesn't have it built in, but you can buy an adapter. Anyway off to Maplins for a USB cable so I can at least hear something through this box.

struth
11-03-2018, 14:14
type a to b usb cable.
https://www.kenable.co.uk/product_thumb.php?img=images/uab_printer_kenable_co_uk_m.jpg&w=240&h=240

Edward
11-03-2018, 16:48
Thanks Edward, so when you plug your laptop directly into the Pioneer then it acts merely as a dac? TBH I don't even know what a streamer does!

Your Pioneer does various things - all of it revolves around the DAC contained within. And yes you can plug your laptop into the Pioneer and will get sounds. And I bet you will be very pleased with the quality.

I don't suggest you start buying more stuff (e.g. bluetooth) for now, go with what you have and work from there. It is all very easy. If you wish feel free to give me a bell and I can walk you through things. PM for contact details.

Mikeandvan
11-03-2018, 19:54
Well, managed to get iTunes on my laptop, and it found the Pioneer N-50K wirelessly, obviously the Pioneer is connected via the Ethernet cable. The laptop is connected to the internet on wifi. The display on the Pioneer says 'Airplay', but tried to connect Spotify via the Airplay app and it wouldn't work. Also thought Airplay was for apple devices only, my laptop is windows. So really don't know what's going on here.

Anyway, the iTunes app - the volume control doesn't work! Which is a pain, as my amp doesn't have remote control........And the SQ, its not bad, but I find it harsh, listening to some jazz now, Coltrane etc, and the overall quality, detail etc is close to my vinyl set up, but the sound has a harshness which I find irritating, almost unlistenable. Don't know whether other streaming services would sound better, or the dac in the Pioneers not up to much?

Leftfield
11-03-2018, 20:26
Mike
I also have a Pioneer N50 and have done so for a number of years, and can only share how i’ve managed to solve the streaming conundrum...
My method of streaming depends of what service I am using. If I am using Spotify, which I do for the majority of the time, I use a ChromeCast Audio (best £15 I’ve probably ever spent on hifi) which I’ve plugged directly into my Caiman Dac. With this I am able to use the Spotify app on any device and ‘cast’ directly to the chromecast. If you don’t have a separate Dac you can connect the chromecast directly to the N50 and use it’s dac.
However, if I am feeling particular flush, or there are free offers for either Tidal or Qobuz, I use an old android tablet on to which I have downloaded Bubble UPNP. This is an app which links to tidal and qobuz and a number of other streaming services (but alas not Spotify) and then allows these services to be ‘rendered’ to the N50. I’m still not sure what rendering is (other than the stuff on the outside of my house) but it means there is a wireless method of streaming. It will also connect to a home NAS if you have one and can compile play lists across a number of sources. I think there is a way for it to do something similar with Spotify but you need to ‘root’ your android device. Tried this once, failed and only just managed to recover any functionality.....
As you have an android phone, you could download bubble upnp, from memory I think it’s a couple of quid for the full version, and then take up one of the free offers rom Tidal or Qobuz and give it a go.
This probably sounds very complicated but it’s not; if a Luddite like me can get it up and running I’m sure you can.
Sorry for the rambling.....

Edward
11-03-2018, 20:58
Well, managed to get iTunes on my laptop, and it found the Pioneer N-50K wirelessly, obviously the Pioneer is connected via the Ethernet cable. The laptop is connected to the internet on wifi. The display on the Pioneer says 'Airplay', but tried to connect Spotify via the Airplay app and it wouldn't work. Also thought Airplay was for apple devices only, my laptop is windows. So really don't know what's going on here.

Anyway, the iTunes app - the volume control doesn't work! Which is a pain, as my amp doesn't have remote control........And the SQ, its not bad, but I find it harsh, listening to some jazz now, Coltrane etc, and the overall quality, detail etc is close to my vinyl set up, but the sound has a harshness which I find irritating, almost unlistenable. Don't know whether other streaming services would sound better, or the dac in the Pioneers not up to much?


That is good news Mike that something works. I personally avoid iTunes unless I have to for some very specific reasons as I consider it all very confusing - and it is Apple.

Still recommend that you have Spotify on your Laptop and output directly to your Pioneer DAC with Spotify on your phone as a controller ( which includes volume control). Or alternatively, as many other have recommended, Chromecast Audio.

Good luck anyway.

Mikeandvan
11-03-2018, 21:44
That is good news Mike that something works. I personally avoid iTunes unless I have to for some very specific reasons as I consider it all very confusing - and it is Apple.

Still recommend that you have Spotify on your Laptop and output directly to your Pioneer DAC with Spotify on your phone as a controller ( which includes volume control). Or alternatively, as many other have recommended, Chromecast Audio.

Good luck anyway.

Thanks Edward, I'll try both of those suggestions. After that think I'll work refining the streaming sound, as I really am getting tired of changing records, so I want it as my main listening source. If that includes buying a fancy DAC then so be it.

Sherwood
11-03-2018, 22:29
Thanks Edward, I'll try both of those suggestions. After that think I'll work refining the streaming sound, as I really am getting tired of changing records, so I want it as my main listening source. If that includes buying a fancy DAC then so be it.

I don't know about a fancy DAC but I have the Caiman SEG (like many AoS members) and suggest it is hard to beat at its price level. Although I use a RPi/Digione for main listening, I also have a Chromecast Audio connected to the SEG and can confirm it works very well. The Caiman SEG is around £200 so that it might be an option for you if can get a decent price on your Pioneer which does not seem to have been the best solution for your needs. The Chromecast works with Spotify, Deezer and numerous web radio services.

Geoff

Mikeandvan
11-03-2018, 22:32
I don't know about a fancy DAC but I have the Caiman SEG (like many AoS members) and suggest it is hard to beat at its price level. Although I use a RPi/Digione for main listening, I also have a Chromecast Audio connected to the SEG and can confirm it works very well. The Caiman SEG is around £200 so that it might be an option for you if can get a decent price on your Pioneer which does not seem to have been the best solution for your needs. The Chromecast works with Spotify, Deezer and numerous web radio services.

Geoff

Thanks Geoff, I'm struggling to see the point of this Pioneer thing altogether!

Sherwood
11-03-2018, 22:36
Thanks Geoff, I'm struggling to see the point of this Pioneer thing altogether!

I don't think the problem is with the Pioneer per se: it's just that it is not the best choice for what you want from a streaming system. The Caiman SEG has very analogue sound so is unlikely to produce the brash sound you mention. I have a 3 month trial of Deezer premium and I am using that with the Chromecast Audio into my SEG. Very good sound for the price.

Geoff

Leftfield
11-03-2018, 22:58
I don't think the problem is with the Pioneer per se: it's just that it is not the best choice for what you want from a streaming system. The Caiman SEG has very analogue sound so is unlikely to produce the brash sound you mention. I have a 3 month trial of Deezer premium and I am using that with the Chromecast Audio into my SEG. Very good sound for the price.

Geoff

Mike, despite owning the same Pioneer, I agree with Geoff. Had i bought the Chromecast Audio first I doubt I would have bought the Pioneer. Although there are days when I try to convince myself I can hear an improved sound through the hardwired Pioneer as opposed to the WiFi chromecast.

Mikeandvan
11-03-2018, 23:01
Mike, despite owning the same Pioneer, I agree with Geoff. Had i bought the Chromecast Audio first I doubt I would have bought the Pioneer. Although there are days when I try to convince myself I can hear an improved sound through the hardwired Pioneer as opposed to the WiFi chromecast.

OK, that's one less shelf I need then.

Mikeandvan
12-03-2018, 21:42
Been listening quite a lot today, nice to hear some tracks I haven't heard properly in years. Anyone know why the volume control doesn't work in my iTunes? Sound isn't that far behind vinyl playback, the girlfriend thinks its better!

Edward
12-03-2018, 21:53
iTunes, whilst good quality, is lossy. Give a lossless service (e.g. Tidal) a free trial and see if the SQ for you is even better.

Stratmangler
12-03-2018, 22:12
Anyone know why the volume control doesn't work in my iTunes?

Could be because the device doing the rendering is connected over WiFi.
Try it over USB.

Stratmangler
12-03-2018, 22:14
iTunes, whilst good quality, is lossy

iTunes is not necessarily lossy.
It's quite happy playing WAV and AIFF, as well as ALAC, non of which is a lossy format.

Edward
12-03-2018, 22:28
Thanks Chris. I stand corrected.

Assumption on my part - thought Mike was streaming Apple stuff.

Happy to sit in the naughty corner for a while. :)

Mikeandvan
12-03-2018, 22:29
Thanks Chris. I stand corrected.

Assumption on my part - thought Mike was streaming Apple stuff.

Happy to sit in the naughty corner for a while. :)

I thought I was streaming apple stuff.

Stratmangler
12-03-2018, 22:37
I thought I was streaming apple stuff.

What did you rip your CDs to?
Which format?
Apple stuff could be AIFF, which is uncompressed PCM, or ALAC (Apple Lossless).
iTunes can also rip to MP3, which is not Apple stuff, and it probably also does AAC, which is again not Apple stuff.

Mikeandvan
12-03-2018, 22:52
What did you rip your CDs to?
Which format?
Apple stuff could be AIFF, which is uncompressed PCM, or ALAC (Apple Lossless).
iTunes can also rip to MP3, which is not Apple stuff, and it probably also does AAC, which is again not Apple stuff.
I didn't rip my cds, got a cdp to play them. Just like I got a TT to play my few vinyls, gonna keep the hardware just in case the internet breaks down, you never know.......

Stratmangler
12-03-2018, 23:04
I didn't rip my cds......

So you're playing stuff you downloaded from the iTunes store?

Mikeandvan
12-03-2018, 23:08
So you're playing stuff you downloaded from the iTunes store?

Yes, well, just listen to iTunes live. Whats the difference between downloading and just pressing play? (please be patient!).

struth
12-03-2018, 23:14
Streaming is usually classed as where the music is stored on their servers. Downloads come from your hdd

Mikeandvan
12-03-2018, 23:16
Streaming is usually classed as where the music is stored on their servers. Downloads come from your hdd

I see, hard drive, on a computer? (please be patient).

Stratmangler
12-03-2018, 23:26
Yes, well, just listen to iTunes live. Whats the difference between downloading and just pressing play? (please be patient!).

In theory there shouldn't be any difference in quality - both are AAC at 256kbps.
The live play thing does depend on the quality of your internet connection, so you might suffer from occasional buffering during playback.

Mikeandvan
12-03-2018, 23:30
In theory there shouldn't be any difference in quality - both are AAC at 256kbps.
The live play thing does depend on the quality of your internet connection, so you might suffer from occasional buffering during playback.

Thanks, bit bewildering having all this choice of music, don't know where to start. Today played a few tracks I'd not heard in ages, there's other stuff I'd like to hear, but can't remember what they're called!

struth
12-03-2018, 23:57
I see, hard drive, on a computer? (please be patient).

Well a local one so most likely. You then are using local wifi within house rather than the internet
Most streaming services gave ability to download, usually on portable devices so you can play when you've no internet like on your phone. It's encrypted so folk can't nick it tho and would have to be played via the service. Like Spotify for instance.

Hard to tell why the volume wasn't working Might be the way it's being connected and played I.e. What's got the control at the vc stage. Might be the unit and thus only adjustable via that. Or there might be a setting to lock volume at a particular level

Mikeandvan
13-03-2018, 00:03
Well a local one so most likely. You then are using local wifi within house rather than the internet
Most streaming services gave ability to download, usually on portable devices so you can play when you've no internet like on your phone. It's encrypted so folk can't nick it tho and would have to be played via the service. Like Spotify for instance.

Hard to tell why the volume wasn't working Might be the way it's being connected and played I.e. What's got the control at the vc stage. Might be the unit and thus only adjustable via that. Or there might be a setting to lock volume at a particular level

Thanks, its becoming clearer, steep learning curve and all that. Gotta get a usb cable and a chromecast so I can try out other things......

Mikeandvan
25-03-2018, 10:54
Another luddite question. Yesterday finally got a usb - a to b - cable and connected laptop to usb input on Pioneer, tried playing tracks from YouTube but the sound was all wrong, barely making a sound, just like a muffled sound.

Sherwood
25-03-2018, 10:57
Another luddite question. Yesterday finally got a usb - a to b - cable and connected laptop to usb input on Pioneer, tried playing tracks from YouTube but the sound was all wrong, barely making a sound, just like a muffled sound.

When connected this way your laptop controls the volume. Have you checked to make sure that the audio settings show the device selected and the correct volume setting?

Mikeandvan
25-03-2018, 12:19
When connected this way your laptop controls the volume. Have you checked to make sure that the audio settings show the device selected and the correct volume setting?

Yes the laptop selects the Pioneer when I connect it via the usb cable, and the volume works, but the sound is completely wrong, this is using youtube.

struth
25-03-2018, 12:34
what does completely wrong mean?

Mikeandvan
25-03-2018, 12:36
what does completely wrong mean?
The music is only half there, rest is fuzz, electrical noises etc.

Mikeandvan
25-03-2018, 12:40
Now I can't even launch iTunes, gonna have to put a record on!

Stratmangler
25-03-2018, 12:45
Reboot the computer.

walpurgis
25-03-2018, 13:16
why not simply start with a lead from your headphone output of your laptop to a spare line input on your Naim

Just tried that into my amp for a bit of fun. Godawful sound (unsurpisingly).

Mikeandvan
25-03-2018, 13:44
Reboot the computer.
Just tried it, still the same.

anandhad
23-10-2018, 11:35
Roku is one of the best and well-known streaming devices at present. There are many customers for Roku and many cable operators also prefer Roku for streaming their channels.

supapeet
20-11-2018, 00:00
I'm just trialling a Bluesound Node 2i from Richer Sounds, 14 day return option. Node wired straight into my Musical Fidelity 3.2 Dual Mono Integrated Amp and Monitor Audio Gold floorstanders. The Bluesound App on my laptop is controlling the playback. I'm using Tidal and because I'm using the desktop I can access the Tidal Masters files. Sounds excellent.

Prior to that I was using a Google Chromecast into the Amp and playing Spotify and for £30 for the Chromecast that was bloody good value for money and a great sound.