View Full Version : question about stanley beresford and his products
I am looking to buy a new dac and given my budget, beresford dacs were considered. However I am more concerned about the man behind this brand and his practices and how that relates to the product.
I found out through a google search that he was posting from a number of hidden names pretending to be someone else but an ip check confirmed that it was Stanley Beresford. Firstly this is unprofessional and hardly encouraging for me to buy his products.
I dont want to be quick to judge I have only stated facts so far, but I would like other peoples opinions about this particular situation. I do remember reading Stanley making some claims that his dacs were similar to the Chord dac64 or ones costing £5000. Again this issue is controversial but can I ask for some unbiased views?
Hi Jim,
Before we go any further, could you please pop into the Welcome area and introduce yourself to our members? This procedure is required for all new members joining our community.
Use other threads there as a template for what info is required (location, system, music tastes, etc).
After that we'll continue this discussion, providing that you're here for a constructive purpose and not simply to stick the boot into one of our most established and respected members by bringing up past events of which Stan was not guilty.
Anyway, please do not contribute any further to this thread until you have complied with my above request.
Thanks in advance for your co-operation! :)
Marco.
StanleyB
12-02-2010, 16:15
I am looking to buy a new dac and given my budget, beresford dacs were considered. However I am more concerned about the man behind this brand and his practices and how that relates to the product.
I found out through a google search that he was posting from a number of hidden names pretending to be someone else but an ip check confirmed that it was Stanley Beresford. Firstly this is unprofessional and hardly encouraging for me to buy his products.
I dont want to be quick to judge I have only stated facts so far, but I would like other peoples opinions about this particular situation. I do remember reading Stanley making some claims that his dacs were similar to the Chord dac64 or ones costing £5000. Again this issue is controversial but can I ask for some unbiased views?
Hi Jim, rest assured that I shall refund you your money the moment I receive your order:).
As for the google search you did: The UK libel laws are quite friendly and I have been considering taking that website to the cleaners. They did after all forget to mention that they asked me for a massive injection of cash into their personal bank account, which I promptly refused. Since then they have waged a character assassination charge against me. I have no doubt that other manufacturers just give in and pay them the product placement bribes, and get very favourable reviews in return. Even if the goods are soiled.
Marco, now that I have introduced myself can we resume this discussion?
I shall be watching this thread very carefully! ;)
Marco.
Marco is it not possible to contact you privately?
Marco, now that I have introduced myself can we resume this discussion?
Hi Jim,
Only if it revolves around the product (i.e Beresford DACs) and not Stanley the person and his so-called 'activities' elsewhere.
AOS is not remotely interested in discussing libellous issues which have been raised on other forums. Therefore any material of this nature will be removed without further warning.
Marco.
Marco is it not possible to contact you privately?
What for, Jim?
Marco.
I understand this is a delicate subject which potentially involves defamation of the person and I dont wish to take the discussion in that direction. However as a potential customer I would like to hear what Stanley and others have to say and hopefully people will be honest and unbiased.
Spectral Morn
12-02-2010, 16:40
Must say I am a bit concerned about this thread and Jim's vagueness in the welcome section of the forum. Its also imho a bit much to have a go at a valuable member of a forum in your first posts.
Having listened to Stans 7510 dac I can state that it is exceptionally good for the money and being honest again imho/e the Chord Dac is not that good (though it depends on which version we are discussing, as the more recent versions are better than the early ones..again imho/e). Just to set the record strait I like Chord (I own a Chord phono stage and a Chord One Cd player). However at the time the Dac 64 first came out it was imho a flawed product (something Stereophile commented on at the time), its XLR out put was way to high for many inputs on amplifiers, and the sound was harsh, relentless and not particularly musical. Stereophile rated the MF Dac (senior moment can't remember the model number..the one before the Tri-vista..I have owned both by the way)as being better something I confirmed for myself at the time about 6 years ago.
Stans products are excellent imho/e, and offer incredible value for money.
Regards D S D L
I understand this is a delicate subject which potentially involves defamation of the person and I dont wish to take the discussion in that direction. However as a potential customer I would like to hear what Stanley and others have to say and hopefully people will be honest and unbiased.
Hi Jim,
I'm afraid that won't be allowed to happen, as I'm simply not willing to host that stuff. This is a hi-fi and music forum, first and foremost, so those are the topics we discuss here.
Must say I am a bit concerned about this thread and Jim's vagueness in the welcome section of the forum. Its also imho a bit much to have a go at a valuable member of a forum in your first posts.
Indeed.
I, like Neil, also have to question your motives for being here, so either you discuss the Beresford DAC (and/or any other DACs you choose), in a hi-fi sense, or participate constructively in other areas of the forum, or this thread will be deleted along with your good self.
Your choice, my friend :)
Marco.
ok well lets turn this into a dac thread. I am looking at the cambridge dacmagic and the vdac and I'd like to know what differences people have heard.
Marco or Stanley would it be okay if I contacted stanley privately to talk about this issue in private?
Spectral Morn
12-02-2010, 16:51
I understand this is a delicate subject which potentially involves defamation of the person and I dont wish to take the discussion in that direction. However as a potential customer I would like to hear what Stanley and others have to say and hopefully people will be honest and unbiased.
Try Stans Dac and see if you like it or not. If you do great and if not, you will have no trouble in selling it on.
I think you are either very brave or very foolish to launch such an attack on Stan in your opening posts here on AOS. All this crap about Stan was dealt with years ago and in Stans favour. The modus operandi of the forum you mention is well known. As for Stan's other detractors, well they just don't like his drive, talent and success in designing and having built such a great range of products for so little money. Which is understandable, but attacks on Stan's person are not imo okay, but show those people up...badly imho.
Put your self in the shoes of companies who make and sell expensive Dacs. Are they going to be happy about Beresford who sell products that beat theirs in the sound quality stakes (though not build or looks..though for the money it is excellent.)for a fraction of the cost. Now I am not saying that a Beresford Dac be it 7510, 7520 or Caiman is better than every Dac out there, but for the cost it is an outstanding achievement.
Regards D S D L
ok well lets turn this into a dac thread.
Good! :)
Marco or Stanley would it be okay if I contacted stanley privately to talk about this issue in private?
If you feel you must, however, I make no apologies for the likely reception you may get or the fact that you may simply be ignored ;)
Marco.
I've got a Dacmagic, in fact I have had all the Dacmagic's produced, and it sounds like...........errr.......a Dacmagic really.
StanleyB
12-02-2010, 16:56
I understand this is a delicate subject which potentially involves defamation of the person and I dont wish to take the discussion in that direction. However as a potential customer I would like to hear what Stanley and others have to say and hopefully people will be honest and unbiased.
My DACs have been reviewed on numerous occasions by magazines in which I don't even advertise, and still came out with flying colours.
The info you dug up from another website should be good enough for you to go to that same site and get loads of threads where loads of other DACs are extremely highly praised. Surely, if you trust the info they provide on me, you should have no hesitation in trusting their judgement on the brilliance of the DACs from their paid advertisers? You can get some as cheap as U$100 plus shipping sent directly from China, and with recommendations from numerous extremely happy users, albeit with IP addresses mainly from within China. But hey, don't let that discourage you:).
Jim
Rather than discuss libellous and very probably untrue rumour-mongering by other sites, why not discuss the DACs? I have a Beresford Caiman and I think it's a superb product, offering sound quality way above its price level. I could get more detailed if you like but if you have a search hereabouts you'll find lots of positive comments from other owners. To my mind, that counts for a lot.
I would just like to say that I'm a big fan of Mr. Beresford. His products offer exceptional value for the money (I'm a former Benchmark owner) and Stan's service has always been prompt and courteous. Value-conscious audiophiles should be glad he's around.
Stan,
You don't need to respond any further to this stuff - in fact, I'd be obliged if you didn't.
Cheers!
Marco.
I have heard the benchmark so how would you say it comparres with other dacs of a lower cost such as the vdac?
Jim, I've been "corrected" when I suggested that DACs shouldn't sound hugely different these days (actually it's the bodging or modding of the audio output stage which seems to be the most fun for those hung up on these things), but I suspect that most of the decent £200 approx jobbies would be fine and if you want to make really important changes to your (unkown) system, the speakers will make a huge difference, together with ensuring the amp can drive them without clipping or distortions..
The Beresford DAC's have a huge and positive following and there is plenty of discussion on possible fine tuning of the excellent original. The DacMagic also seems to be well worth the money and Cambridge in the UK seems to be well looked after. The third option is made by a company with a rather volatile individual running it and although easy repairs may be possible in the future, i do know of people who bought extremely expensive CD players made by them and couldn't get them serviced a couple of years later.....
and can you not delete my posts? That is in my view nearly as bad as defamation because youre not giving me the chance to respond while other people have their say about me.
jim. In the grand scheme of things , there isn't that much of a difference between a £100 DAC and £1000 DAC.
You're talking about a slightly different presentation/balance that without playing the two side by side, wouldn't even know existed.
Just buy what you can afford and be happy.
and can you not delete my posts? That is in my view nearly as bad as defamation because youre not giving me the chance to respond while other people have their say about me.
Hi Jim,
It's your choice. No posts of yours will be deleted if you stick strictly to the hi-fi discussion. However, any more comments regarding what you referred to in your opening post will be deleted without further warning, and you will be banned. I did warn you earlier.
Now, please, let's get back to the hi-fi subject of DACs. You've not had the best of starts here, so let's see some evidence of you redeeming yourself.
Marco.
Spectral Morn
12-02-2010, 17:17
and can you not delete my posts? That is in my view nearly as bad as defamation because youre not giving me the chance to respond while other people have their say about me.
Jim Marco warned you to keep to Audio topics, not the gist of your opening posts. I had hoped I had dealt with this in my PM to you. If you continue to want to discuss this....then I am sorry to say your posts will be deleted and you may find yourself on a few days holiday.
Regards D S D L
Discussion about sound quality can go on and on and there's no real conclusion. Some people can say a product is the best while others say the opposite and some say its good for the money. None of this means much. What makes the beresford sound better than others then?
kininigin
12-02-2010, 17:33
There's only one way to find out if it is better than other's or not and that is to try it.
Discussion about sound quality can go on and on and there's no real conclusion. Some people can say a product is the best while others say the opposite and some say its good for the money. None of this means much. What makes the beresford sound better than others then?
So why don't you tell people here what budget you have , what other equipment you're using, what room you have , what music you like etc so they can help you?
If you want a kick arse preamp/dac/headphone amp for £200 then there is only one option.
If you only need the DAC circuit and have more money to spend then that will open up more options wont it?
Ali Tait
12-02-2010, 17:38
To put it in perspective,I hava a modded (by me) Audio Note DAC Zero,and also a modded (by me) Beresford 7510.There isn't a great deal in it,though I do prefer the AN with it's valve output stage for cd playback,but then I like valves.The Beresford gets used mostly for the Sky+ box and the dvd player,with which it sounds superb.I really don't think you could better it at that price or for quite a bit more,it's a great piece of kit.If you're looking for a dac at this price,its a no-braner as far as I'm concerned.
As Stan has more or less said he will not sell Jim a DAC;
Hi Jim, rest assured that I shall refund you your money the moment I receive your order:).
Perhaps a few other suggestions might be in order? ;)
The Caiman or 7520 are fantastic for the price, you get a dac with several inputs, it offers fixed output and variable output plus an internal headphone amp (which isn't too shabby either) , performance wise I think you'd be struggling to better the product for the price
If you don't mind a spot of diy theres also a few upgrades which are worthwhile, you also get chance to take part in discussions with the designer which is something you don't see often with other manufacturers
Hi Jim,
Yes the Caiman and Stan are both brilliant and I am struggling to better the setup I now have. Really enjoy trying the mods Stan lets us know about as well.
Just a shame that you will not be joining us!
Regards
I've had a Beresford 7510 v6/4 for a few years now and love it's sound. I hope to upgrade to the Caiman soon, for it's headphone amp as much as for the DAC, which by all accounts is a huge leap from the 7510.
Shame that you seem to have burnt your bridges to these products though.
Jon
Rare Bird
12-02-2010, 18:46
Getting more & more like the crossdressers place every day
:lolsign:
Getting more & more like the crossdressers place every day
:lolsign:
Why what are they like? ;)
Regards
Stratmangler
12-02-2010, 19:43
Congratulations Jim
Your first post came across about as well as kicking the door in and pissing on the doormat !
What do you do for an encore ?
I'd get used to the idea of getting a DacMagic, as I would be very surprised if Stan would actually sell you a Caiman.
Chris;)
Having listened to Stans 7510 dac I can state that it is exceptionally good for the money and being honest again imho/e the Chord Dac is not that good
Oi! You dissin' my DAC?
Congratulations Jim
I'd get used to the idea of getting a DacMagic, as I would be very surprised if Stan would actually sell you a Caiman.
Chris;)
Why?
You can get some as cheap as U$100 plus shipping sent directly from China, and with recommendations from numerous extremely happy users, albeit with IP addresses mainly from within China. But hey, don't let that discourage you:).
I had always thought yours was a rebadged TEC from Taiwan. Like what Grant Fidelity does with Jungson kit ?
where is it made ?
Spectral Morn
12-02-2010, 20:01
Oi! You dissin' my DAC?
Hi Joe
Read my post again...I said early DAC 64s.
Regards D S D L
Stratmangler
12-02-2010, 20:01
Why?
Go back and read your first post.
I know I certainly wouldn't give you the time of day after reading that if it were pointed at me.
Chris
Rare Bird
12-02-2010, 20:02
Hi Joe
Read my post again...I said early DAC 64s.
Regards D S D L
Didnt the old Deltec guy design that DAC?
Hi Joe
Read my post again...I said early DAC 64s.
Regards D S D L
Yebbut mine's an early DAC64!
Spectral Morn
12-02-2010, 20:04
I had always thought yours was a rebadged TEC from Taiwan. Like what Grant Fidelity does with Jungson kit ?
where is it made ?
Marc
The comment highlighted is imho a bit rude, and inaccurate.
Stan can comment for himself, but it is a well known fact that Stan gets his Dacs made in China. The externals may well resemble the TEC, but to my knowledge it is not a TEC, but his own internal design. Its clever cost saving that makes Beresford Dacs the bargain they are.
Regards D S D L
Spectral Morn
12-02-2010, 20:07
Yebbut mine's an early DAC64!
Hi Joe
Got to pop out, I will comment further later.
Regards D S D L
Go back and read your first post.
I know I certainly wouldn't give you the time of day after reading that if it were pointed at me.
Chris
And is that a professional way to deal with it? Not in my opinion.
Didnt the old Deltec guy design that DAC?
He did! See:
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3530
Yebbut mine's an early DAC64!
If your happy with it I don't see the problem;) If I'm happy with something I wouldn't give a toss what anybody else thinks:lol:
I don't understand how a genuine mistake of origins between two products which share the exact same case work can be considered rude?
I appologise if that's how it came across, but it was definately not intentional.
As I don't live far from Stanley I drove to his house to purchase my Beresford 7510. He had already modded it for me earlier in the day ready for me to collect. We listened to some tunes in his lounge before exchanging dosh (with AOS discount I might add). He came across as a top bloke, albeit significantly under the weather with a cold! If I have any queries he always answers my emails promptly.
The 7510, 7520, Caiman are great VFM products imo. My Mac/7510 combo spanked my Naim CD player which I subsequently sold.
If your happy with it I don't see the problem;) If I'm happy with something I wouldn't give a toss what anybody else thinks:lol:
I don't, really, but it's a product that does tend to divide opinion, even between people listening to it in the same system.
Rare Bird
12-02-2010, 20:17
He did! See:
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3530
Rob Watts aye that's him
As I don't live far from Stanley I drove to his house to purchase my Beresford 7510. He had already modded it for me earlier in the day ready for me to collect. We listened to some tunes in his lounge before exchanging dosh (with AOS discount I might add). He came across as a top bloke, albeit significantly under the weather with a cold! If I have any queries he always answers my emails promptly.
The 7510, 7520, Caiman are great VFM products imo. My Mac/7510 combo spanked my Naim CD player which I subsequently sold.
hi,
What equipment was being used when you tested it in his lounge?
StanleyB
12-02-2010, 20:22
Stan can comment for himself, but it is a well known fact that Stan gets his Dacs made in China. The externals may well resemble the TEC, but to my knowledge it is not a TEC, but his own internal design. Its clever cost saving that makes Beresford Dacs the bargain they are.
It's a bit different to that;).
I used to work for a company in the UK, where I designed products that were then sent to various Far Eastern companies for manufacturing. When I decided to approach one of them, with whom I had become good friends, to make my own stuff after I got laid off, I wasn't sure if my own surname would be a good idea to use as a brand name. So I used his brand name instead for the first couple of months. But once people got to know me I started using my own surname as my brand name.
A lot of people have written a lot of things about TEC and Beresford. I leave them to it to go and buy a differently branded product. If people are so much into the politics of what they buy, they should stop spending their money on buying goods that prop up oppressive regimes, cause the demise of small businesses in the UK, or cause the destruction of the Amazon rainforest and the African continent. But that doesn't come into their head of course. Hypocrites is what springs to mind.
My DAC is not made in China, but in Taiwan.
hi,
What equipment was being used when you tested it in his lounge?
I can't remember exactly - I didn't take any gear. I only wanted to compare the modded 7510 to the generic model - even then I wasn't that bothered tbh. Maybe stanley will interject at this point. I think he had a 70's amp and some big Yamaha speakers if memory serves.
I can't remember exactly - I didn't take any gear. I only wanted to compare the modded 7510 to the generic model - even then I wasn't that bothered tbh. Maybe stanley will interject at this point. I think he had a 70's amp and some big Yamaha speakers if memory serves.
Ok well Stanley can you tell me what gear you use?
Perhaps it's "strictly confidential"?
StanleyB
12-02-2010, 21:21
I don't go by what gear I use. That's what beta testers are for:).
Spectral Morn
12-02-2010, 21:44
It's a bit different to that;).
I used to work for a company in the UK, where I designed products that were then sent to various Far Eastern companies for manufacturing. When I decided to approach one of them, with whom I had become good friends, to make my own stuff after I got laid off, I wasn't sure if my own surname would be a good idea to use as a brand name. So I used his brand name instead for the first couple of months. But once people got to know me I started using my own surname as my brand name.
A lot of people have written a lot of things about TEC and Beresford. I leave them to it to go and buy a differently branded product. If people are so much into the politics of what they buy, they should stop spending their money on buying goods that prop up oppressive regimes, cause the demise of small businesses in the UK, or cause the destruction of the Amazon rainforest and the African continent. But that doesn't come into their head of course. Hypocrites is what springs to mind.
My DAC is not made in China, but in Taiwan.
Sorry Stan..I was trying to help. Thank you for the clarification of the facts.
Regards D S D L
Perhaps it's "strictly confidential"?
Lol! :eyebrows:
Jim, if you're not willing to disclose what gear you use (for whatever reason), why should Stan - and moreover, why is this so important?
Marco.
twelvebears
12-02-2010, 22:10
Ok well Stanley can you tell me what gear you use?
Jim.
I don't know why Stan's gear is so important, or indeed why you seem so intent on discussing this with Stan directly when there are many other hi-fi obsessives who are VERY well acquainted with Mr B's product, so why not discuss it with us?
For what it's worth, and to (only briefly) go back to your slightly suspicious first post, name me ANY other manufacturer who is happy to discuss, in person, how to make modifications to his product within warranty, without having issues?
Stan is a top bloke, as are all the other trade members of AOS. All of whom go several extra miles to keep their customers happy.
If you want to discuss hi-fi matters then do it in public on the forum, if you're after off-the-record tittle-tattle, I suggest you choose another forum.
Thanks, Steve - you've saved me from having to say the very same thing! :)
Marco.
Steve Toy
12-02-2010, 22:28
How long have you been living in London, Jim?
Which part of the US do you hail from?
Jim.
I don't know why Stan's gear is so important, or indeed why you seem so intent on discussing this with Stan directly when there are many other hi-fi obsessives who are VERY well acquainted with Mr B's product, so why not discuss it with us?
For what it's worth, and to (only briefly) go back to your slightly suspicious first post, name me ANY other manufacturer who is happy to discuss, in person, how to make modifications to his product within warranty, without having issues?
I can understand why it might be suspicious to hide things but lets not jump to conclusions. You dont know why I am not disclosing my kit do you? There could be a number of reasons which you're not aware of so how can you judge?
Thing is, Jim, regardless of that, you're not exactly endearing yourself to people here, are you?
I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I strongly suspect that you have some (as yet undisclosed) agenda - and regardless of what I think, the reaction from other members towards you tells its own story...
Are you going to make any attempt to fit in here by opening up a little or just simply continue to frustrate and annoy folk?
I'm starting to lose patience.
Marco.
The Vinyl Adventure
13-02-2010, 01:11
What an odd thread...
My feelings exactly. I think someone is pissing themselves laughing. Press to Play? Press to Eject!
He's a troll for sure - at the moment we're just 'humouring' him ;)
Marco.
Discussion about sound quality can go on and on and there's no real conclusion. Some people can say a product is the best while others say the opposite and some say its good for the money. None of this means much. What makes the beresford sound better than others then?
The Beresford Caiman doesn't sound "better". It sounds "more accurate".
This is one of the most accurate-sounding dacs out there. The examples you mention (DacMagic and V-Dac) are "ok" to my ears, but are not as accurate.
The CA dac is a well-engineered dac with different filter settings. Which one of these settings do you wish to compare with the Caiman ? :scratch:
The V-Dac is an average dac imho, nothing to talk about. ;)
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2301/troll6591857.jpg (http://img192.imageshack.us/i/troll6591857.jpg/)
What is a Troll?
http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm
agitate - definition of agitate by the Free Online Dictionary ...
v. ag·i·tat·ed, ag·i·tat·ing, ag·i·tates. v.tr. 1. To cause to move with violence or sudden force. 2. To upset; disturb: was agitated by the alarming news. ...
www.thefreedictionary.com/agitate - Cached - Similar
I prefer the first definition of 'trolling' in the urban dictionary:
'Being a prick on the internet because you can'
Stratmangler
13-02-2010, 12:27
I prefer the first definition of 'trolling' in the urban dictionary:
'Being a prick on the internet because you can'
:)
The Beresford Caiman doesn't sound "better". It sounds "more accurate".
This is one of the most accurate-sounding dacs out there. The examples you mention (DacMagic and V-Dac) are "ok" to my ears, but are not as accurate.
The CA dac is a well-engineered dac with different filter settings. Which one of these settings do you wish to compare with the Caiman ? :scratch:
The V-Dac is an average dac imho, nothing to talk about. ;)
What I object to are the claims that the beresford is 'better' or 'more accurate' as you put it than many more expensive dacs. I dont know what that means but it does damage the reputation of other products by giving the impression they are inferior. But is it not a matter of preference and nothing more?
The Vinyl Adventure
13-02-2010, 16:34
What I object to are the claims that the beresford is 'better' or 'more accurate' as you put it than many more expensive dacs. I dont know what that means but it does damage the reputation of other products by giving the impression they are inferior.
your worried about one persons opinion about a couple of dacs when your coming on here dragging up a load of nonsence from the past. surly thats more damaging??
But is it not a matter of preference and nothing more?
it is a matter of opinion .. thats dimitris opinion! he even uses the words "to my ears" ....
twelvebears
13-02-2010, 16:42
I can understand why it might be suspicious to hide things but lets not jump to conclusions. You dont know why I am not disclosing my kit do you? There could be a number of reasons which you're not aware of so how can you judge?
Sorry to state the bloody obvious, but this is a music and hi-fi forum where people come to discuss... er, well music and hi-fi. As having a friendly chat about both is bound, one would assume, to involve something to listen to, I'd say that being cryptic about your likes for either, is either divisive or just weird.
Strangely, everyone else is perfectly happy to jump in to the welcome section, say a big high, say a little about their music and kit and get a collective AOS group hug.
AOS prides itself on openness and the fact that we not only know real names here, but people actually meet up, often with the sole purpose of helping each other out and doing favours.
If that's not your bag, then I suggest you stop wasting our time and your own and choose another forum.
Hamish it's not what is said but the impression that is given. Its not just one person is it. There are many fans of beresford dacs on here which is fine but I still stand by my point.
Regarding my very first post on this forum, we can either discuss it properly and fairly or leave it alone. I was told by the admin that we couldn't discuss it and all related posts would be deleted so I suggest you respect that.
The Vinyl Adventure
13-02-2010, 16:56
well you have come to a forum where there is a lot of beresford fans and got an opinion that they are better than some other equal priced dacs and even better than some more expensive ones.. you have even ben given reasons why .. all opinions of course but you have them... so i would think its job done? is there anything else you need to know?
well you have come to a forum where there is a lot of beresford fans and got an opinion that they are better than some other equal priced dacs and even better than some more expensive ones.. you have even ben given reasons why .. all opinions of course but you have them... so i would think its job done? is there anything else you need to know?
Are you missing my point or are you ignoring it? My point was that it is misleading to say things like 'the beresford is better' without even explaining what that means. It also gives the impression that we shouldn't buy any other dac because there's 'something wrong' with them. It hides the fact that different people have different systems and tastes and will come to different conclusions.
I am more inclined to discuss what it is about the Beresford (as an example) that makes it more accurate or better or whatever. So this isn't so much about preferences it's about the technical and objective aspects.
purite audio
13-02-2010, 17:12
Jim Hi, as with any piece of kit, you have to gather a few 'possibles' together and listen to them all in your system and form an opinion.
Keith.
The Vinyl Adventure
13-02-2010, 17:15
your missing my point, people have told you they have preferance for beresford over some other dacs and given you reasons. thay have said its better and said why they think that to be true.. what more do you want
it doesnt hide anything, it is them stating thier opinion, if you want to know what is best in your system then buy one... its the only way... your hifi is in your room and so it would sound different in a different room so even someone with the same system as you cant give you truely acurate advice.
its nothing to do with objective, you are in the wrong place for that sort of thing..it is about a few people with experience of various dacs in thier system saying that in thier view the beresford is better than the other dacs you mentioned... what more can you expect from a forum?????
Yawn. I've just wasted 10 minutes of my life reading this................
Yawn. I've just wasted 10 minutes of my life reading this................
Time to lock the thread, if nothing else?
Guys, whenever you want this nonsense to end, just let me know :)
Marco.
Whatever DAC you buy, don't you think Sound Has Priority? That's what I think...
Spectral Morn
13-02-2010, 18:22
Jim Hi, as with any piece of kit, you have to gather a few 'possibles' together and listen to them all in your system and form an opinion.
Keith.
Exactly what I told Jim a day ago.
Jim
This is a subjective forum, were we (the members) while acknowledging the value and importance of measurements, will always trust our collective ears first. Many who have tried Stan's Dac think it is an exceptional item for the money. My own experiences with the 7510, suggested to me that it was up to the task of annoying many high-end items. However not having every Dac to hand on the market, including the ones it is said to be better than, I could only compare it to my own collection of digital kit, I suggest you read my review in Strokes of Genius...link http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1919
However discussing the Dac will not imho serve you well, you need as Keith and I, and others have suggested; gather your faves after shop demos, borrow them and try at home in your own system. After that you can share what you think in the form of a review, and place it in Strokes of Genius. I would be interested to read what you think. However in order for that to have meaning you will need to share details of music used, system components and the type and size of room. As I suspect you won't do that, then frankly it is hard to understand where any thoughts you have on Dacs are coming from. Thus you rob your opinion of credibility and value imho.
Regards D S D L
Jim you are on a subjectivist site so IMHO is valued here. People here have given you good advice (have a listen to a few DACs and go for the one you like the best), with the infomation you given its impossible to advice you any more than that.
What I object to are the claims that the beresford is 'better' or 'more accurate' as you put it than many more expensive dacs. I dont know what that means but it does damage the reputation of other products by giving the impression they are inferior. But is it not a matter of preference and nothing more?
You can object, it's your choice. We can't all have the same opinion. ;)
Nevertheless, my opinion is backed up by careful side-by-side tests of tens of dacs. And yours ? Which dacs have you tested to claim the contrary ?
Of course, even if you do blind tests with a preference scoring, it's all about "preference" and "matching". Do you see anything more in audio testing ?
Yes, Marco, you can clean up. I don't see anything constructive or challenging in this conversation.
Steve Toy
13-02-2010, 18:30
Lets get this right: Stanley did not want to pay towards keeping the owner(s) of a certain American forum in the lifestyle to which they'd become accustomed by paying the fee. Not content with simply booting Stanley off their forum with around 100,000 members and advertising all over the place, they thought they'd spread accusations far and wide with a view to damaging Stanley's reputation and business.
I banned an individual here from this forum as he tried to register. We don't charge our trade members here and we don't make a living out of AOS. If those running forums for profit have a problem with that.... :ner:
It's almost like a Mafia style protection racket. Stanley did not want to pay so they are trying to burn his house down. I believe "Jim" is part of that process. There is only one possible outcome.... :door:
Jim - the only thing you're going to hear in this forum is opinion since the pursuit of musical reproduction is a very personal thing. However, many of the opinions proferred are as a result of the experience of owning a Beresford DAC. If we own the DAC then we have an opinion, such as it sounding 'accurate'. I personally think it does too, and my measure of goodness comes from going to concerts where I hear live (classical) instrumentation like a piano and orchestra and know what they sound like. So you can take our opinion or leave it, but the only thing that's really going to matter in the end is for you to hear one for yourself.
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