Makin' Money

[alphaGT]

I've been following some similar pieces of gear to what I have in my system, just to check their market value, for my own curiosity. And I've discovered that many of the pieces I own have increased in value.

I recently watched a preamp like mine, a Parasound Halo 3, it sat on eBay for a long time at $565, and finally sold for that price, and I see another asking a similar price. I only paid $350 for mine 5 or 6 years ago. That's not too unusual I guess? But I recently bought the big Krell! And replaced my very nice Forte' Model 3, and they sell all the time on Audiogon for $700 to $750, and I only paid $300, again 5 or 6 years ago. That's a huge increase! In fact, almost every piece of used gear I own, is worth more now than it was when I got it within the past 7 years. Even my speakers are averaging $500 more than I paid.

I've read an article in a hi end magazine a while back saying that Hi Fi was a terrible investment. A sure way to loose money. I guess if you must buy new, that would be very true. But in the used market I seem to be making better gains than gold bricks. Why is this?

Is it just a shift that has occurred in these recent years? Has the cost of new gear driven up the cost of used gear? Or have I just accidentally chosen pieces they have increased in demand? Is anyone else noticing the same thing with their equipment?

It seems to me that a big stereo could be a nice way to store wealth? As long as most of the gear you own has done most of its depreciating before you buy it. And of course it's nice enough that age won't make it worthless, it beats a no interest savings account hands down! So you've got $30k in a standard savings account, drawing about 0.0050% interest, giving you 50 cent on the thousand interest per year. And if the banks go bust and lock their doors, you have no access to it. And you have to fill out a tax form to claim those pennies. But! If you buy stereo with it, then no taxes, and home owner's insurance covers it if stolen, or lost in a fire. And you get to enjoy that money every day instead of looking at numbers on a computer screen. And if you're as lucky as I am, and most of your stereo is going up in value, it seems like a great place to hide some money. And don't forget your record collection, used records have gone up in value a lot in recent years.

At any rate, I'm very surprised to find this trend that almost all of my stereo has increased in value since I bought it.

Ruseell




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[farflungstar]

I've lost money, not because the items I've sold haven't increased in value but because I've been in a rush to sell and also in the spirit of the forum asked for roughly half of what I paid. The Siggwan arm I recently sold was half the price I paid, and the Cary's I have on at the moment are only double (give it take) the price of the valves I put into them. I guess it depends on what you want - to wait and make money or to move on and share the joys of the hobby.

[petrat]

I can only recall ever making a profit on two items, out of dozens and dozens bought and sold ... so, clearly I'm clueless. Probably because I don't hang on to anything long enough for it to appreciate :doh:

Wish I'd bulk bought Garrards, Leaks, Marantz 7s, Western Electric, etc. when they were throwing them in skips ... I'd be wealthy now.
Trouble is that none of us ever see the value in yesterday's technology until decades later. Like bods who never sell their old cars, and put them in the barn ... 40 years ago, who'd have thought a Ford Escort would be collectable?

[Bigman80]

Yep, I subscribe to no making money out of sales on the forum and have lost £100 on the Alphason tonearm I was selling. I have however, been given stuff for free and at stupidly low prices so swings and roundabouts.

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[petrat]

With old stuff, you also have to factor in the cost of re-furbishment/servicing too. 'Mint' condition isn't just about cosmetics .... component aging and deterioration needs to be sorted too ime. I've had three amps recently that needed work before I was comfortable selling them on (losing a lot of money and time in each case).

[mikeyb]

It's because new prices are rising so it has a knock on effect on used prices

[struth]

lost on everything. such is life for a loser like me :lol:

[Audio Al]

Sell old hifi :eek:

Who does that then :scratch:

;)

[struth]

Tbh, if you buy cheap and buy stuff that is in demand then you probably wont lose much and may even make a profit. I have done with records occasionally for instance. But if youve had something for a while and had the use of it then getting some decent return is good going. Cars usually lose half there value in a few months and a big chunk immediately you buy it.

[Pete The Cat]

I think it depends on the manufacturer or model rather than there being inflation across the piece. Take turntables as an example. In the past 10 years or so I've used a Pioneer PL-71, Roksan Xerxes and Townshend Rock II and while I'd suggest that each of them was among the market leaders of its day, none has appreciated in value, whereas other decks from the humble Pioneer PL-12D to the Garrard 401 continue to increase.

I've only ever looked to recover my outlay when selling. Last year I lost some money selling an amp (timing plays a part - too close to Christmas) and was surprised to see it turn up for sale on various forums within a few days, with a description implying that the seller had some experience of it. Ultimately you just have to accept that it's a fickle market like many others.

Pete

[Zoidburg]

Yep, I subscribe to no making money out of sales on the forum and have lost £100 on the Alphason tonearm I was selling. I have however, been given stuff for free and at stupidly low prices so swings and roundabouts.

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Yeah Id agree with you on that Oliver, the forum sales section should be a place where stuff is sensibly priced (rather than the likes of ebay etc etc) and as fellow enthusiasts we can expect a decent deal when purchasing but also that that will be in tern passed on to the next person maybe. That's how I look at it anyway (though my recent experience is that not everyone sees it like that at all).

[Bigman80]

Yeah Id agree with you on that Oliver, the forum sales section should be a place where stuff is sensibly priced (rather than the likes of ebay etc etc) and as fellow enthusiasts we can expect a decent deal when purchasing but also that that will be in tern passed on to the next person maybe. That's how I look at it anyway (though my recent experience is that not everyone sees it like that at all).Ive currently got £1000 worth of preamps sat in my front room, all on trial and more to come next week, an £825 tonearm on loan and various other bits and bobs, with no expectations from the owners, I've borrowed countless items and given speakers away for free because I've been given them gratis, if you aren't here to help expand the knowledge and experience of the members, you're not making the most of your membership.

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[Zoidburg]

Ive currently got £1000k worth of preamps sat in my front room, all on trial and more to come next week, an £825 tonearm on loan and various other bits and bobs, with no expectations from the owners, I've borrowed countless items and given speakers away for free because I've been given them gratis, if you aren't here to help expand the knowledge and experience of the members, you're not making the most of your membership.

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well said

[Barry]

Everything I have put up for sale here (and AoS is the only place where I will offer the occasional item for sale) have been priced at ~ half the amount suggested by ebay sales. I do this for two reasons:

[1] Hopefully to secure a quick sale,

[2] I'm not interested in making money from the Members here; I much prefer to think the sale items are going to a good home.

Like others here I have also offered small items (such as ADC headshells and arm boards) for free. And I should add that I too have been the recipient of 'freebies'. It is all part and parcel of the helpful spirit we try to engender at AoS.

[Bigman80]

Everything I have put up for sale here (and AoS is the only place where I will offer the occasional item for sale) have been priced at ~ half the amount suggested by ebay sales. I do this for two reasons:

[1] Hopefully to secure a quick sale,

[2] I'm not interested in making money from the Members here; I much prefer to think the sale items are going to a good home.

Like others here I have also offered small items (such as ADC headshells and arm boards) for free. And I should add that I too have been the recipient of 'freebies'. It is all part and parcel of the helpful spirit we try to engender at AoS.Good man, Barry. Now about those headshell........ [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

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[Spectral Morn]

Very little holds its value in audio, very little is an easy sale - bar flavour of the month stuff or kit felt (sometimes wrongly) to be the thing to buy... a bit like What HiiFi 5 star kit but used. The degree of snobbery and closed minds is a sad thing, but such is life and other areas of interest have similar issues.

Vintage kit, some of it sells well in the far east, but I suspect that market will eventually dry up.

Making money on audio, only possible if you buy for very little.

[Idlewithnodrive]

I wouldn't dream of making a profit on forum bought kit and have passed on some stupidly good buys at cost. I often lose money on kit but gain in so many other ways from forum membership, so hey ho.

What really irks and I mean REALLY irks are the total idiots who say "I only want back what I paid for it a year ago", a years use and you expect to lose nowt.

How does that work then ?

[Pharos]

£1M in preamps is a lot to have around, and suggests a real passion for superb sound.

That is my passion, and a local shopkeeper is astounded that I am going to buy, subject to condition, another pair of second hand speakers for about £8k. But I love pure quality sound, and I think they will be my last.

When in any domain of passion, it irks me to come across the mercenary who mix in it seeking to make money, with little real interest or I/P of work or commitment, and ask high prices for stuff; they often look hard headed and brusque.

I want to be with those who can share the love of good sound and music, regardless of financial status and level 'up the ladder', and have an evening listening and sharing a bottle of wine..

[Bigman80]

£1M in preamps is a lot to have around, and suggests a real passion for superb sound.

That is my passion, and a local shopkeeper is astounded that I am going to buy, subject to condition, another pair of second hand speakers for about £8k. But I love pure quality sound, and I think they will be my last.

When in any domain of passion, it irks me to come across the mercenary who mix in it seeking to make money, with little real interest or I/P of work or commitment, and ask high prices for stuff; they often look hard headed and brusque.

I want to be with those who can share the love of good sound and music, regardless of financial status and level 'up the ladder', and have an evening listening and sharing a bottle of wine..Oooops,, that £1k [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] it feels like a £1m to me though. Lol.



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[Idlewithnodrive]

I want to be with those who can share the love of good sound and music, regardless of financial status and level 'up the ladder', and have an evening listening and sharing a bottle of wine..

:cool: to that Dennis. It just doesn't get any better than that. After all, that is what this crazy hobby is all about :)

[Ninanina]

Not made money on anything I've ever sold either on AoS or eBay, break-even or a slight loss is ok with me

I have just worked out what my, now 4, amps would cost if purchased brand new.... over £12K... I just can't believe it :doh: thank goodness I didn't spend anywhere near that, I am definitely not rich ;)

Shocking, just shocking... I need to sell 3 of them..... :eyebrows:

[Pharos]

I am reminded of my situation in '84 when I saw an as for speakers saying; "Sound as clear as light" for some ESS 1aMs in Exchange and Mart, at around £450.

I scrabbled around and sold my Tannoy Gold Lancasters to The Vintage Wireless Company, Bristol, an agreed price and time being made.

The owner turned up and was suited and smoking a fat cigar, (business style), and after we carried them downstairs he proceeded to put one on top of the other, tearing the veneer of the lower one that I had meticulously 'pledged' for many years. with the metal 'feet' of the upper one.

I pointed this out to him, and he said, "OH that doesn't matter we will re-do all that".
I cannot understand this wanton attitude.

[alphaGT]

I guess no one gets into Hi Fi to make money! Unless you own a Hi Fi shop, perhaps?

I should point out that all of my profits are only observed. I haven't actually sold any of it yet. Just that I have been watching the market, and discovering what my components are selling for. And this may be because I am a careful shopper? Every bit of my system is used, even the phono cartridge and cables, and I did shop for items that have reached a plateau of depreciation. I purchased that Krell amp most recently, at less than 1/4th its original price. And other than the ding it received in shipping, it operates like new.

Oh I gave my entire stereo away several years ago, to my daughter and her husband, the whole system. So, that is certainly not making money there, but I felt good to do it, and have infected my son in law with the Audiophilia virus to a terminal degree. I remodeled some speakers I had laying about, to better than new with all new speaker elements and crossovers, and binding posts. And I sold them to a friend for less than I had in parts. Just because he wanted them due to the memories of the years those speakers fronted my old system. Loaned him a roll of speaker wire than I never got back.

So I speak in theoretical value, observing what my components are selling for, not just once but at least 3 examples, so it's not just a fluke that someone got top dollar, these items in good condition are getting these prices. And I've seen this Forte' Model 3 sell for over $700 more than 5 times! So should I give mine away to a stranger? I think not. If I make a move to sell it, which I should before long, no since in it setting. I'll be asking market value. Unless of course, a friend actually wanted it, I'd probably give it away, or more likely trade it for something.

But I don't live in England, so I'm not near most of you, and to be honest, I don't have any real "Hi Fi" friends, most of my friends think I'm crazy for being into stereo. And even those who like it, and come to listen, don't spend a dime of their own money on stereo. So the comradery most of you enjoy has always eluded me, one of the reasons I do enjoy this forum.

I do take comfort in knowing that when I die, the value stored in my stereo my afford me a decent burial! It's like life insurance that I get to enjoy now.


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[Roy S]

I do take comfort in knowing that when I die, the value stored in my stereo my afford me a decent burial! It's like life insurance that I get to enjoy now.


My other half reckons I should be buried in my Ardens

[walpurgis]

My other half reckons I should be buried in my Ardens

Room for two surely? :D

[Roy S]

Be a bit cosy, would have to remove the drivers..

[SLS]

When I've come to sell popular brands like Linn or Naim, I've got my money back, and sold quick, having bought ex-demo in the first place. Anything with valves is a bugger to sell for more than a third retail, not least because the retailers will discount, and expect it to take many months.
The answer to this dreadful habit is to buy all-in-one systems (see below).

[alphaGT]

My other half reckons I should be buried in my Ardens

Who says you can’t take it with you?


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[Macca]

My other half reckons I should be buried in my Ardens

Better to do it Viking style and be burnt on a pyre made from the Ardens.

Actually that is a bit of a waste, leave the Ardens to me in your will and we will burn you on a pile of old pallets instead.

[Roy S]

leave the Ardens to me in your will and we will burn you on a pile of old pallets instead.

That'll save my grieving relatives some money but the Hifi's promised to my cousin.