View Full Version : Mono carts - what we all using?
Lee Henley
02-10-2017, 12:19
As the title says, what we all using for mono vinyl playback, Ive accumulated quite a bit of mono pressings lately especially classical, Blue Note Jazz etc and have been considering a mono cart for the Jelco 750D. I dont want to go to the extremes of an SPU or Miyajima so would set the budget at a maximum of say £300
From what I have read on the internet getting a mono cart is a game changer for mono vinyl playback, is this the case?
Look forward to hearing from you
Lee
What is your budget Lee?
Have you considered the Denon DL-102? https://www.amazon.co.uk/DENON-DL-102-Monaural-Moving-Cartridge/dp/B0007DA21M
Lee Henley
02-10-2017, 15:03
upto £300 Barry
There are a couple of new Denon DL-102s available on Amazon for less than £300.
I’ve tried in the past the Denon DL102 and it always sounded a bit dull and not very engaging in my system.
The best mono cart I’ve heard and is probably the cheapest out there if you can find one is the GE VRII unfortunately it normally means importing from the US which isn’t cheap and finding decent styluses is sometimes difficult but for full blast Mono fun and excitement the VRII takes some beating.
montesquieu
03-10-2017, 20:05
I’ve tried in the past the Denon DL102 and it always sounded a bit dull and not very engaging in my system.
The DL-102 is not really a mono cartridge in the classic sense. It was designed for professional use, playing stereo records on mono AM radio, which of course has a truncated frequency response compared to FM (which is why it doesn't need a full frequency response). It's also a bit oddball in specification having 3mv output (MM equivalent, more or less) but 240 ohm impedance, making it hard to match correctly. (Not that it would sound like a full range cartridge even if you did).
Bear in mind that the whole point of having a mono cartridge is to have 'true' mono which is picking up only in the horiontal, which means a single coil or standard coils turned round to 90 degrees. Anything else is just the same as hitting the mono button, it helps a bit but often sounds a bit flat. In some (but not all) true mono cartridges, including many vintage ones, the only motion is in the horizontal which can mean it can potentially damage stereo records if you use it with them.
The AT33 Mono cartridges are true mono and pretty decent, and within budget. The Ortofon 2M Mono likewise (I had the 78 version). I really liked the Lyra Dorian Mono (indeed it's my favourite Lyra) but I think discontinued now. Vintage mono cartridges can be a bit of a risk, both in terms of their weight/tracking force required and also impedance matching as few are MM standard 47 ohm specification.
I wouldn't bother with most MM stereo-turned-mono cartridges as they are just stereo cartridges (two coils), strapped for mono ie the coils wired together in parallel - compared to true mono you get barely any advantage from doing so. These include Grado, Rega etc.
Pity the OP missed the SPU Mono GM MkII I sold here recently for £275 ....
BTW lots and lots of mono discussion over at the Lenco Forum, there's a special mono sub-forum.
I’ve tried in the past the Denon DL102 and it always sounded a bit dull and not very engaging in my system.
The best mono cart I’ve heard and is probably the cheapest out there if you can find one is the GE VRII unfortunately it normally means importing from the US which isn’t cheap and finding decent styluses is sometimes difficult but for full blast Mono fun and excitement the VRII takes some beating.I hope so! I have one and have bought quite a few aftermarket styli for it, but what I have got for my outlay is not usable, the styli are wonky and shite. One seller Insisited they were 'fine for an old cartridge', but I regard a stylus mounted 20 degrees from perpendicular (laterally) to the cantilever as fine only in the same manner as Shane McGowan's teeth are 'fine'. So the search continues. If I may suggest: If you buy a VR11, only buy a cart with a usable 1mil stylus as part of the package because the 10-20 bucks a time for junkers starts to add up.
Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk
According to this: http://www3.sympatico.ca/murraya/DenonMonoPage.htm, the DL-102 has a FR extending to 20KHz. And if loaded with 1,000 Ohm the output is flatter than it would be when loaded with 47KOhm.
montesquieu
04-10-2017, 17:22
According to this: http://www3.sympatico.ca/murraya/DenonMonoPage.htm, the DL-102 has a FR extending to 20KHz. And if loaded with 1,000 Ohm the output is flatter than it would be when loaded with 47KOhm.
It's usually only quoted to 10khz for the reasons I mentioned (it's only +2db to 10k). The page also confirms that it's designed for playing stereo records.
"The DL-102 is a monophonic output moving coil cartridge designed for monophonic replay as well as the monophonic playback of stereo recordings.", means that the cartridge will play stereo records without damage, presumably because the stylus can move in both the vertical as well as the horizontal plane with similar compliance figures.
montesquieu
04-10-2017, 18:36
"The DL-102 is a monophonic output moving coil cartridge designed for monophonic replay as well as the monophonic playback of stereo recordings.", means that the cartridge will play stereo records without damage, presumably because the stylus can move in both the vertical as well as the horizontal plane with similar compliance figures.
I think that's what I said. It was primarily designed to turn stereo records into a mono signal.
Lee Henley
05-10-2017, 06:36
The DL-102 is not really a mono cartridge in the classic sense. It was designed for professional use, playing stereo records on mono AM radio, which of course has a truncated frequency response compared to FM (which is why it doesn't need a full frequency response). It's also a bit oddball in specification having 3mv output (MM equivalent, more or less) but 240 ohm impedance, making it hard to match correctly. (Not that it would sound like a full range cartridge even if you did).
Bear in mind that the whole point of having a mono cartridge is to have 'true' mono which is picking up only in the horiontal, which means a single coil or standard coils turned round to 90 degrees. Anything else is just the same as hitting the mono button, it helps a bit but often sounds a bit flat. In some (but not all) true mono cartridges, including many vintage ones, the only motion is in the horizontal which can mean it can potentially damage stereo records if you use it with them.
The AT33 Mono cartridges are true mono and pretty decent, and within budget. The Ortofon 2M Mono likewise (I had the 78 version). I really liked the Lyra Dorian Mono (indeed it's my favourite Lyra) but I think discontinued now. Vintage mono cartridges can be a bit of a risk, both in terms of their weight/tracking force required and also impedance matching as few are MM standard 47 ohm specification.
I wouldn't bother with most MM stereo-turned-mono cartridges as they are just stereo cartridges (two coils), strapped for mono ie the coils wired together in parallel - compared to true mono you get barely any advantage from doing so. These include Grado, Rega etc.
Pity the OP missed the SPU Mono GM MkII I sold here recently for £275 ....
BTW lots and lots of mono discussion over at the Lenco Forum, there's a special mono sub-forum.
Thanks for the input Tom and some great suggestions. At some point in the future I may go down the SPU route, I did have a look at the Ortofon website which has fueled further confusion, they seem to have an SPU for differing types of mono vinyl playback, the GM MK II is for 25 micron records, then they do one for 65 micron records, I wouldnt know which mono records I have to be honest and does it make much difference?
Thanks for the input Tom and some great suggestions. At some point in the future I may go down the SPU route, I did have a look at the Ortofon website which has fueled further confusion, they seem to have an SPU for differing types of mono vinyl playback, the GM MK II is for 25 micron records, then they do one for 65 micron records, I wouldnt know which mono records I have to be honest and does it make much difference?LPs are the 25 micron variant, 65 micron is for 78s I believe, equating to 1mil, and 2.5 or 3mil respectively (in old money sizes)
Edit: yes it makes a huge difference. One benefit of VR11 and similar is that they have rotatable styli so you can change the stylus using a knob on the headshell.
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montesquieu
05-10-2017, 07:40
Well actually that's where it gets interesting.
Later mono - as in modern reissues, and mono LPs from about 1960 - have a v shaped groove and narrow groove width as, on the whole they were cut and pressed on stereo gear. Use 0.7mil/17-18 micron tips, fancy stylus profiles can be ok
Early mono sometimes labelled Microgroove was in use from early 50s, petering out about 1960,but there were older pressing and cutting gear in use till the mid 60s so you get the odd late one. Use 1.0 mil/25 micron tips. Grooves are u shaped and really only spherical tips work.
78 grooves got smaller over time archivists use a range from maybe 4.0 mil for 1920s stuff to 2.5 in the 1950s (65 micron in Orofon speak) - I have a subset of these options from expert stylus.
SPUs are divided into horizontal motion only (recreations of vintage ones) and the Mono GM that also has horizontal motion detection but moves vertically too - kinder if you accidentally use it on a stereo record.
More info on this post http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?53161-Miyajima-cartridge-re-cantilevered-in-bamboo!-Lots-of-mono-fun&p=888522#post888522.
You need to look at the mono you have - if it's mainly reissues or later stuff you need a narrow tip; if it's mainly older and a lot of great jazz and classical is in this category then you need a thicker tip. Some of us end up with both.
There's also the whole business of equalisation pre adoption of the RIAA standard but that's another can of worms entirely!
Or this one .... http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?46347-Mono-Revelation&highlight=miyajima+mono
(especially post 23)
Non-Smoking Man
08-11-2017, 19:19
I have Petrat's old AT33 mono (which I havent used yet), but I have played with a worn out Decca Gold which I had retipped and returned to mono by John Wright. In this mode it's tracking ability is much improved - it never was much good in the vertical plane so only having to go side to side suits it. The previous owner of it when it was stereo heard it at my place as a mono cart in a Wilson Benesch Act 0.5 and said he could never get it to track that well before.
Great resume of what is involved in mono Tom.
Jack NSM
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