Recomend me a DAC

[Audio Al]

OK People , recommend me a DAC please

Needs to be idiot proof ( ME :) ) if such a thing exists to run from my mac usb

I will be downloading from Amazon prime ( whatever file type they use ? )

Dont want to spend lots as I am only dipping my toe in the DAC world , I love analog :D

[Simon_LDT]

If you're looking for biggest value for low money, look at Schiit DACs. They do a wide range.

[Audio Al]

If you're looking for biggest value for low money, look at Schiit DACs. They do a wide range.

Thank you Simon I will have a look see ;)

[Firebottle]

Xiang Sheng DAC 01A http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XiangSheng-DAC-01A-BK-Tube-24Bit-96Khz-USB-Decoders-Headphone-Pre-Amplifier-UK-/310403538260

Or better still http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XiangSheng-DAC-01A-BK-Tube-24Bit-96Khz-USB-Decoders-Headphone-Pre-Amplifier-UK-/310403538260

Excellent performer.
Take the valve out and use the standard output sockets, it runs cooler and avoids the compromised coupling caps for the valve stage.

:cool:

[Audio Al]

Xiang Sheng DAC 01A http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XiangSheng-DAC-01A-BK-Tube-24Bit-96Khz-USB-Decoders-Headphone-Pre-Amplifier-UK-/310403538260

Or better still http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XiangSheng-DAC-01A-BK-Tube-24Bit-96Khz-USB-Decoders-Headphone-Pre-Amplifier-UK-/310403538260

Excellent performer.
Take the valve out and use the standard output sockets, it runs cooler and avoids the compromised coupling caps for the valve stage.

:cool:


Err :scratch: Are they not the same one :scratch:

[Spectral Morn]

iFi Audio DACs are nice.

[Firebottle]

Yes Al but the second link is cheaper :doh:

[Audio Al]

Yes Al but the second link is cheaper :doh:


Double :doh::doh: :D

[r100]

What about a UK designed Beresford DAC ? I had one of the earlier ones and I found it to be very musical and among the most enjoyable I've had so far (I'm a bit of a DAC swapper). The new ones are even better from what I read from other users. My advice would be to spend a little more on a first DAC. Like with a first guitar, better spend a little more on a quality instrument than be disappointed and have it stand around in a corner collecting dust :) I'm sure you could even find a second hand one very cheap.

[r100]

Xiang Sheng DAC 01A http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XiangSheng-DAC-01A-BK-Tube-24Bit-96Khz-USB-Decoders-Headphone-Pre-Amplifier-UK-/310403538260

Or better still http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XiangSheng-DAC-01A-BK-Tube-24Bit-96Khz-USB-Decoders-Headphone-Pre-Amplifier-UK-/310403538260

Excellent performer.
Take the valve out and use the standard output sockets, it runs cooler and avoids the compromised coupling caps for the valve stage.

:cool:

there is this one too which seems to have the same sort of layout (with tube, etc.). I had one, but wasn't overly impressed by it. Found it very "warm" and cosy if that makes sense.

http://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/tube_magic_d1

[Audio Al]

Both £137.99 :)

[Audio Al]

there is this one too which seems to have the same sort of layout (with tube, etc.). I had one, but wasn't overly impressed by it. Found it very "warm" and cosy if that makes sense.

http://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/tube_magic_d1

Dont want one that sounds like the singer has a cold , thick and bloted sort of sound

[struth]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/381266628313?chn=ps&dispItem=1&adgroupid=45192391362&rlsatarget=pla-327465389250&abcId=1129006&adtype=pla&merchantid=113612265&poi=&googleloc=1007406&device=c&campaignid=861899735&crdt=0

these are good too.

[Audio Al]

Remember I need it to match a iMac and amazon music files please

[struth]

i use it with a pc. has a standard square usb at back plus others and rca's out. v/c only works on headphone section. not tried it on mac but should say in spec. this and the Yang sheng are both excellent value

[willbewill]

Xiang Sheng DAC 01A http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XiangSheng-DAC-01A-BK-Tube-24Bit-96Khz-USB-Decoders-Headphone-Pre-Amplifier-UK-/310403538260

Or better still http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XiangSheng-DAC-01A-BK-Tube-24Bit-96Khz-USB-Decoders-Headphone-Pre-Amplifier-UK-/310403538260

Excellent performer.
Take the valve out and use the standard output sockets, it runs cooler and avoids the compromised coupling caps for the valve stage.

:cool:

Hi Alan

Just wondering if you use it with headphones, especially low impedance ones.

[Firebottle]

Hi Malcolm, the phones I have are about 70 ohm and are fine.

[struth]

Hi Alan

Just wondering if you use it with headphones, especially low impedance ones.

I use mine with my oppos a lot. sounds great too. think they are 32 ohm

[r100]

Dont want one that sounds like the singer has a cold , thick and bloted sort of sound

Not sure I get what you mean :eek: ? What type of sound do you like ? DAC's do have sound signatures as, I suppose, tone arm cartridges, do. And well, if the singer has a cold, you would very clearly hear it with a good DAC :lol:. I think maybe you should define A.) what your budget is and B) what you expect from a DAC. As I understand, this would be your first DAC ? And BtW. any recent DAC with a USB input will work with almost any Mac or PC unless otherwise stated.

[ianlenco]

I've got a Meridian Director which is excellent, almost analogue. They are a bit pricey but they do a cheaper Explorer which ought to be worth a look.

[Landloper]

Remember I need it to match a iMac and amazon music files please

Mac owner here, Al.

You should have no problem with most DACs and your iMac. So far I've used a variety of DACs [Beresford, HRT, Meridian, Audiolab, etc] without issue or having to use special drivers on any of the Macs I have. Using Amazon files presents no difficulty at all. The challenge lies in making up your mind over which DAC to get because there are so many decent ones to choose from.

(Usually Macs recognise the DAC and you can confirm the output desired [USB/optical] in System Preferences under the sound icon. Select the desired output rate appropriate for the files you want to play in the MIDI setup [you'll find this app. in your Utilities])

[Audio Al]

Not sure I get what you mean :eek: ? What type of sound do you like ? DAC's do have sound signatures as, I suppose, tone arm cartridges, do. And well, if the singer has a cold, you would very clearly hear it with a good DAC :lol:. I think maybe you should define A.) what your budget is Around £300 and B) what you expect from a DAC.I would expect realistic sound reproduction , Nice treble ( Not bright and screechy ) good mid and some bass , Accurate vocals with no sibilance As I understand, this would be your first DAC ? Yes And BtW. any recent DAC with a USB input will work with almost any Mac or PC unless otherwise stated.

See comments in RED :D

[Audio Al]

Mac owner here, Al.

You should have no problem with most DACs and your iMac. So far I've used a variety of DACs [Beresford, HRT, Meridian, Audiolab, etc] without issue or having to use special drivers on any of the Macs I have. Using Amazon files presents no difficulty at all. The challenge lies in making up your mind over which DAC to get because there are so many decent ones to choose from.

(Usually Macs recognise the DAC and you can confirm the output desired [USB/optical] in System Preferences under the sound icon. Select the desired output rate appropriate for the files you want to play in the MIDI setup [you'll find this app. in your Utilities])

Hi John

Thanks for your comments , Im being put off by all the faffing about , I want a digital version of lowering the arm and listening to music :D , Dac and trying to get it working is doing my head in :doh:

[struth]

Not got this up and running yet Al?

[Stratmangler]

Accurate vocals with no sibilance:D

Usually the DAC has no influence on sibilance - that's more often than not due to poor mastering.
Sibilance with a TT can be down to myriad things, with digital audio it's normally down to poor mastering.

[Yomanze]

Usually the DAC has no influence on sibilance - that's more often than not due to poor mastering.
Sibilance with a TT can be down to myriad things, with digital audio it's normally down to poor mastering.

Agreed. Some shocking masters, and worse still, digital remasters, out there that are just too hard.

[Audio Al]

Not got this up and running yet Al?

Hi Grant

Turns out the JK was faulty , I sent it back to the seller who agreed it did not work and paid a refund , No problem with the seller he is a decent gent :)

[r100]

See comments in RED :D


what your budget is Around £300


that should get you a really nice DAC.. good hunting you might become addicted :rolleyes:

[Macca]

, I want a digital version of lowering the arm and listening to music :D , :

You mean a cd player?

if you involve a computer then there is always going to be some faffing about since that is what computers do best.

[Audio Al]

You mean a cd player?

if you involve a computer then there is always going to be some faffing about since that is what computers do best.

True Martin , I may just give up on the DAC idea :hmm:

[struth]

its a mater of opinion I guess. Ive started using my pc's again and everything is sounding very good indeed. A good dac, and use wasapi driver and your likely to sound fine.
Al, a cheap way is to get a echo dot and connect it via a 3.5mm to 2 rca into stereo. Works very well, and a good start

[Macca]

its a mater of opinion I guess. Ive started using my pc's again and everything is sounding very good indeed. A

Yes, but you like mucking around with computers and getting them to work whereas some of us find it to be the most tedious thing imaginable.

[walpurgis]

some of us find it to be the most tedious thing imaginable.

No. That would be sitting hours in a hospital waiting area for one's appointment to be called. :lol:

[struth]

Thats why I said about the echo dot. no faff. its the only one that has a analogue out. being amazon it links easy to his amazon music account too. Just need to download the app on a tablet/pc etc.(music isnt going through the pc etc just using them as a remote really) I set mine up in 5 mins. Not the greatest dac in world but sounds decent with the mp3 its fed.(pretty good actually) and listening at moment.
good start point til he decides if he wants to go further.

[struth]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amazon-Echo-Dot-Generation-Black/dp/B01DFKBL68/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1506684766&sr=1-1&keywords=echo+dot

[r100]

True Martin , I may just give up on the DAC idea :hmm:

keep going ! it's not just the DAC it is all the music you can get from the Internet and music services like Spotify, Tidal and others. CD's are so passé :D

[Spectral Morn]

Yes, but you like mucking around with computers and getting them to work whereas some of us find it to be the most tedious thing imaginable.

More like an arcane art. Its the messing around that I fine annoying, in saying that if you like MACs (I don't) then there is less messing around that with a PC, no drivers usually required to get it working so that's a plus.

[Audio Al]

Yes, but you like mucking around with computers and getting them to work whereas some of us find it to be the most tedious thing imaginable.

:exactly:

[Audio Al]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amazon-Echo-Dot-Generation-Black/dp/B01DFKBL68/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1506684766&sr=1-1&keywords=echo+dot

Grant , How does this connect into my hifi ? remember I am a numpty ;)

[struth]

one of these Al. Only the Echo Dot has a line out. Ive mine connected to the stereo. I can control it via voice. I mostly use spotify so I get better control options via spotify connect.
There is an alexa ap for ios as well. Its easier to imo if you dont want to use voice, to have spotify instead of amazon music. Its a better system all the way and about same cost.

as you are not interested in the pc work etc I would get spotify, and download it on you pc, and use a dot and cable. it just works pretty seemlessly...or one of the dacs Alan and I pointed out from china. The one I showed you was cheapest on and will come from Germany.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182610622454 and use a usb cable from pc


for the dot
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01GOCOW6K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Audio Al]

one of these Al. Only the Echo Dot has a line out. Ive mine connected to the stereo. I can control it via voice. I mostly use spotify so I get better control options via spotify connect.
There is an alexa ap for ios as well. Its easier to imo if you dont want to use voice, to have spotify instead of amazon music. Its a better system all the way and about same cost. I have already paid for a years Amazon music

as you are not interested in the pc work etc I would get spotify, and download it on you pc I dont own a PC I have a iMac , and use a dot and cable. it just works pretty seemlessly...or one of the dacs Alan and I pointed out from china. The one I showed you was cheapest on and will come from Germany.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182610622454 and use a usb cable from pc


for the dot
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01GOCOW6K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


See replys in red :)

[struth]

pc/mac they both have usb surely. thats why i said other way with a standard dac

[jandl100]

I've one of these you can try before you buy (or return it!) based on the very fine TDA1543 chipset.

£60

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-SPDIF-Non-Oversampling-NOS-DAC-TDA1543-DIR9001-2x9V-NiMH-powers-from-USB-/202062510206?hash=item2f0bdd387e:g:C2UAAOSw1S9Weu2 s

It's battery powered (battery is internal) and comes with a walwart PSU as well as being USB powered.

I think it sounds excellent.
I think Brian has one as well?

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/C2UAAOSw1S9Weu2s/s-l500.jpg

Happy to send it to you on receipt of address! :)

[Audio Al]

Hi Jerry

Sorry only just seen this post , PM on its way :)

[jandl100]

Hi Jerry

Sorry only just seen this post , PM on its way :)

All packed and ready to be posted in the morning. :thumbsup:

[User211]

All packed and ready to be posted in the morning. :thumbsup:

If he doesn't want it I'll have it...

[Audio Al]

Form a queue ;)

[Photoguy1510]

Sorry I'm going off topic what is the advantage of a dac like this vs the one in my amp or CD player? Yep noob you can lol later when I'm not around.

[Audio Al]

I dont have a dac in any other equipment so this is a stand alone unit

[brian2957]

I've one of these you can try before you buy (or return it!) based on the very fine TDA1543 chipset.

£60

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-SPDIF-Non-Oversampling-NOS-DAC-TDA1543-DIR9001-2x9V-NiMH-powers-from-USB-/202062510206?hash=item2f0bdd387e:g:C2UAAOSw1S9Weu2 s

It's battery powered (battery is internal) and comes with a walwart PSU as well as being USB powered.

I think it sounds excellent.
I think Brian has one as well?

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/C2UAAOSw1S9Weu2s/s-l500.jpg

Happy to send it to you on receipt of address! :)

Sorry , just saw this . Yes I have one of these in my system and it's staying . Thanks for the recommendation Jerry :)

[walpurgis]

Sorry I'm going off topic what is the advantage of a dac like this vs the one in my amp or CD player? Yep noob you can lol later when I'm not around.

It gives you another box to put in your rack! :D



Seriously though, most inbuilt CD player DACs seem to be designed down to a price and an add on separate high quailty DAC often gives better results.

Having been through maybe a dozen DACs of varying make, I've often found the improvement offered quite striking. My Meridian CD player has a very decent onboard DAC, but it was bettered by any of the Theta DACs I tried. For some years now I've settled on using a Monarchy Audio DAC, as that gives me a sound good enough for me not to keep pondering over whether I need to improve on it.

[Photoguy1510]

So much for me thinking these dac things were just another way to spend money. Like all these crazy priced cables that seem to make lots of claims but so far the $30 monster cable ripoff cable seems to beat everything under $800 I have tried. I will have to try this , test one frequency test ala focal. Thaughts the dac in the rotel edged out the wolfston in the cd but then did not know if it was a byproduct of the optical connection.

My wife said to thank you NOT!!! What ever is she on about.
Got to go there is dacs to hunt down.

[Macca]

Sometimes hard to distinguish between a DAC of higher quality and one that just presents the sound the way you like it. Most people would rate a DAC with a presentation that they like as 'better' than another, but this is entirely subjective and will vary from system to system and individual to individual.

If you add a DAC to a CD player perhaps you will prefer it to the CD player DAC, perhaps not. bear in mind that the DAC will have its own analogue output stage and - IMO - this is where the main differences in DACS is created, the type of chip used is of lesser importance. The quality of the analogue output stage will affect the quality of the sound.

DACS are 'voiced' the same way as most hi-fi components, and you may like the voicing or you may not, but this should be considered separately to the quality of reproduction that the DAC may or may not be capable of. Two different things.

DACs with high quality analogue output stages tend to be expensive, same with CD players.

[jandl100]

If he doesn't want it I'll have it...

Hokay - I'll ask Allan to send it on to you in the (unlikely, Brian and I would say) event that he isn't impressed. :)

[User211]

Hokay - I'll ask Allan to send it on to you in the (unlikely, Brian and I would say) event that he isn't impressed. :)

I think it is important to get a dose of reality when you are using wanky £6K DACs very now and then. Just to remind you of why you paid it. Or make you realise you were a fool to do so, LOL:)

[MikeMusic]

What about a UK designed Beresford DAC ? I had one of the earlier ones and I found it to be very musical and among the most enjoyable I've had so far (I'm a bit of a DAC swapper). The new ones are even better from what I read from other users. My advice would be to spend a little more on a first DAC. Like with a first guitar, better spend a little more on a quality instrument than be disappointed and have it stand around in a corner collecting dust :) I'm sure you could even find a second hand one very cheap.

Seconded. I have a Caiman. The SEG is supposed to be even better

[r100]

Sometimes hard to distinguish between a DAC of higher quality and one that just presents the sound the way you like it. Most people would rate a DAC with a presentation that they like as 'better' than another, but this is entirely subjective and will vary from system to system and individual to individual.

If you add a DAC to a CD player perhaps you will prefer it to the CD player DAC, perhaps not. bear in mind that the DAC will have its own analogue output stage and - IMO - this is where the main differences in DACS is created, the type of chip used is of lesser importance. The quality of the analogue output stage will affect the quality of the sound.

DACS are 'voiced' the same way as most hi-fi components, and you may like the voicing or you may not, but this should be considered separately to the quality of reproduction that the DAC may or may not be capable of. Two different things.

DACs with high quality analogue output stages tend to be expensive, same with CD players.

How can you make such a long comment on something you don't use ? And no, I don't think that expensive "analogue output stages" or even expensive DAC's are needed to make a worthy DAC. Just check anything Allo.com is doing. IMHO, good timing and or clean power is much more important.

[r100]

I've one of these you can try before you buy (or return it!) based on the very fine TDA1543 chipset.

£60

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-SPDIF-Non-Oversampling-NOS-DAC-TDA1543-DIR9001-2x9V-NiMH-powers-from-USB-/202062510206?hash=item2f0bdd387e:g:C2UAAOSw1S9Weu2 s

It's battery powered (battery is internal) and comes with a walwart PSU as well as being USB powered.

I think it sounds excellent.
I think Brian has one as well?

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/C2UAAOSw1S9Weu2s/s-l500.jpg

Happy to send it to you on receipt of address! :)

wouldn't mind trying that one myself ... what would you say is the main difference between a NOS DAC and a typical Sabre or TI based DAC ? Thank's :)

[Macca]

How can you make such a long comment on something you don't use ? And no, I don't think that expensive "analogue output stages" or even expensive DAC's are needed to make a worthy DAC. Just check anything Allo.com is doing. IMHO, good timing and or clean power is much more important.

Every cd player has a DAC in it and I have had a couple of stand alone DACs in my system. Not that it makes any difference in terms of understanding how a DAC works in any case.

You'll have to expand on your comment about 'timing', how can one DAC have better timing than anothrr? Timing is something for the musicians to worry about.

[jandl100]

wouldn't mind trying that one myself ... what would you say is the main difference between a NOS DAC and a typical Sabre or TI based DAC ? Thank's :)

Well, I can only speak for my experience of specific DACs, but this NOS DAC has a richer, more solid, dare I say 'organic' sound than many more modern units.
But while having very good resolution and transparency it's not up to the best of today's bargain to mid-price DACs in those respects, ime & imo.
It has quite a distinctive presentation that I (and Brian) find appealing.

That may or may not be a valid generalisation. :)

Perhaps Brian would like to throw in his 2p worth as well?

[Yomanze]

Well, I can only speak for my experience of specific DACs, but this NOS DAC has a richer, more solid, dare I say 'organic' sound than many more modern units.
But while having very good resolution and transparency it's not up to the best of today's bargain to mid-price DACs in those respects, ime & imo.
It has quite a distinctive presentation that I (and Brian) find appealing.

That may or may not be a valid generalisation. :)

Perhaps Brian would like to throw in his 2p worth as well?

I think you've nailed down the key attributes of the TDA1543 in NOS mode.

It is around 14 bits resolution in the real world, and of course you get the -3.2db drop in frequency response at 20kHz, which is what impacts the resolution & transparency. Having said this, if the TDA1543 was oversampled to correct the treble droop & increase the resolution, then you lose the naturalness IMO. NOS DACs sound more 'analogue' to these ears with less digital artefacts.

[brian2957]

Well, I can only speak for my experience of specific DACs, but this NOS DAC has a richer, more solid, dare I say 'organic' sound than many more modern units.
But while having very good resolution and transparency it's not up to the best of today's bargain to mid-price DACs in those respects, ime & imo.
It has quite a distinctive presentation that I (and Brian) find appealing.

That may or may not be a valid generalisation. :)

Perhaps Brian would like to throw in his 2p worth as well?

Think you've nailed it here Jerry . I've owned quite a few DACs over the years and this is the most organic one I have heard to date . It sounds so unforced yet natural , with bags of detail . It's just a real joy to listen to :)

[Audio Al]

:yay::yay: It Works :yay::yay:

[r100]

:partytime:

[jandl100]

Allen has bought the DAC, sorry Justin!

[montesquieu]

Coming far too late to this but having great results with my MacBook and a Schiit multi bit dac https://schiit.eu.com/dacs/modi-multibit ... worth every penny. Worth a read anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Yomanze]

Coming far too late to this but having great results with my MacBook and a Schiit multi bit dac https://schiit.eu.com/dacs/modi-multibit ... worth every penny. Worth a read anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Respect to any manufacturer who uses multibit DACs. :)

Pricing is *very* keen too, right up against the Beresford DAC.

[StanleyB]

It's a question of financial clout. I just don't have the kind of money to invest in the development and marketing to even a fraction of the level of this American company. And after Brexit, sales to the EU could be next to zero, further reducing my sales.
I'll concentrate on sound quality and presentation, instead of the latest technical gimmick.

[Jeff Wood]

Get a Rega Dac, you can get them on Ebay for £250 ish.

I love my one, with a Rega amp and Rega speakers its a great system.

Just use an optical cable from your Mac (assuming its got the Spdif output, I think most have up until 2016 ish).

Easy !

[User211]

Allen has bought the DAC, sorry Justin!No worries.

Looking at an Oppo Sonica for an SS injection instead. Not sure how serious I really am about that yet though.

[User211]

No worries.

Looking at an Oppo Sonica for an SS injection instead. Not sure how serious I really am about that yet though.What Hi-Fi 3 stars HFN 88%. The massive inconsistentcy doesn't inspire confidence.

Next LOL...:)

[montesquieu]

You can have a play with the Schiit multibit if you like Justin. Be interested to hear your opinion. Falls short of my Audio Note DAC but for the relative cost/complexity the gap is less than you'd expect. Don't really need it in the study which is where it lives, I can run the Arcam rBlink direct. Good enough for The Archers.

[User211]

Yo Tom will PM over the weekend.

[Photoguy1510]

This site is pure evil, you guys hit my funny bone so I went looking for a second hand dac to try before buying anything new as they seem to be either cheap or stupid expensive over here.

En result ( I see a divorce in my near future) I ended up with yet another amp nd CD player. Iv heard they are great for the money but finding the pair for $100 I could not resist. Suppose it has a built in dac but owner of a YBA audio refinement amp & cd now.

Back to topic any of you tried a: Myryad Z20, Cambridge dac magic plus, chord mojo, firestone spitfire hd they are all in that price range where it's not a hell of a loss if I don't like it but I prefer not to waste money more than I already do. There is one in a slightly higher range Aune S6 Balanced DAC. One of those that for some reason I like the look of so my brain said try that try it try it. Mental instability is a weakness kind of like dali speakers and me kicked the b&w to the side the dali cheap as dirt one has nicer sound ( more real swear I can hear the cello wood frame creak on them) i don't mind the bit of bass Iv lost its minimal.

[Clive197]

For £399 or slightly cheaper you can avail yourself to a Chord Mojo. I’m over the moon with mine and if you save up you can add a Poly to it and use on home network or out and about wirelessly. What’s not to like.

[jandl100]

I've not tried a Mojo but I had a Hugo2 here with the full expectation of buying it, but it wasn't for me and got returned to sender.

You really do have to try these things out for yourself. One man's meat is another man's poison.

[User211]

Chord products produce sound I am allergic to.

[Photoguy1510]

Nice if you have the option to take and try we just don't get that in nz so short of looking at what hifi ( which seem to rate by price and friendship) unless it's in stock and on display you don't get to listen first.
If I had the option to return the $3000 b&w I got a few weeks back I'd return them in an instant they don't work in my house

[Clive197]

Chord products produce sound I am allergic to.

Try taking anti-histamine tablets.

[struth]

dont think Ive ever tried anything Chord including cables. All too expensive for me :lol: Im more in the bargain basement of audio.:eyebrows:

[montesquieu]

Chord products produce sound I am allergic to.

Me too I had a DAC64 for a bit. What was I thinking!?

[Minstrel SE]

Im just wondering if we can get to the nitty gritty of whats in a £50/ £100/ £500 Dac compared with what the hell could be in a £3000 DAC. Pick your price point.

My gut feeling is that there is a lot of hype and clearly a flavour of the month thing going on. There are so many to choose from now as everyone has a stab at making them. A lot of style over substance going on which does sway me to some extent..see my comment about the DIY look

Someone will recommend the Chord or Arcam and then someone else will say they have that DAC 3 which is fine for them (looks like a DIY kit..very low brow with its philips head screws on the front...only half joking :))

Then we have all the other Chinese direct order boxes with or without valves in a crowded marketplace. Then that Philips chipset was in a range from cd players and people argue that the 1541 is better than the 1543 with lovely tonal qualities....... not maybe the most resolving but lovely nostalgia blah blah.

Ive seen these chips on a pcb board and I wonder about the pricing for whats in a separate DAC box

I just want a nice little box with a brushed metal panel and lots of micro leds telling me Im getting a super duper D/A conversion...What was wrong with the Dacmagic 100? :D

[jandl100]

I just want a nice little box with a brushed metal panel and lots of micro leds telling me Im getting a super duper D/A conversion...What was wrong with the Dacmagic 100? :D

What's wrong with a Dacmagic 100?

Nothing much, probably - but all these doodads sound different, and in ways that are important (to me at any rate).
I've got an upmarket version of the same (Cambridge 851d) - is it better, worse, different? Probably. :)

As you say, the market is more than saturated with DACs these days. Far too many for anyone to have heard them all, or even approach that.
You just have to find your own path, take pot luck, take advantage of what comes along and appeals for whatever reason - and/or maybe take guidance from others who have tried some of the contenders that you haven't.

What makes a Chord Hugo2 cost £1800 and the little NOS TDA1543 DAC3 cost about £100? Apart from the DIY-ish case of the DAC3 and the CNCed brilliance and fancy lighting of the Chord. Oh, and the Chord has a remote controlled volume. But still, a huge difference in price. Chord is perhaps a bad example, as they make their own chips not just take them off the shelf like pretty much everyone else.
The difference in sq? - huge. Money aside, I much prefer the DAC3, having tried them both. I lived with the DAC3 for quite a while and enjoyed it very much, I couldn't tolerate the (run in) Hugo2 for more than an hour or so.

So, yes, you just have to find your own way, or trust in a manufacturer that you have had success with in the past. Or ... well, whatever you want.

[Photoguy1510]

Ok anyone want to put their hand up to help if I want a dac3 not available here and at a £100 it's less than half of the cheapest I can get here. Sounds like a good starting point to me. Very few places mail to nz so I'm going to have to beg till someone is willing to help.

[jandl100]

Ok anyone want to put their hand up to help if I want a dac3 not available here and at a £100 it's less than half of the cheapest I can get here. Sounds like a good starting point to me. Very few places mail to nz so I'm going to have to beg till someone is willing to help.

Have you contacted the French seller about shipping to NZ? - he is very helpful and his English is fine.
eBay link (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-SPDIF-Non-Oversampling-NOS-DAC-TDA1543-DIR9001-2x9V-NiMH-powers-from-USB-/202069648955?hash=item2f0c4a263b:g:C2UAAOSw1S9Weu2 s)

[jandl100]

Have you contacted the French seller about shipping to NZ? - he is very helpful and his English is fine.
eBay link (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-SPDIF-Non-Oversampling-NOS-DAC-TDA1543-DIR9001-2x9V-NiMH-powers-from-USB-/202069648955?hash=item2f0c4a263b:g:C2UAAOSw1S9Weu2 s)

Actually, in that ebay auction the auto-shipping calculator says he will ship to NZ for £24.50!

[Photoguy1510]

Thank you for the link

[Photoguy1510]

Now the wait and hope nobody goes and chases up the bid. NZ$140 + 45 freight what a rip living on the bum end of the world.

[Macca]

Now the wait and hope nobody goes and chases up the bid. NZ$140 + 45 freight what a rip living on the bum end of the world.

Never fancied living in Oz but NZ has always appealed to me. Never been to either place, mind. My old man was there in the early '80s and he said it reminded him of England in the 1950s. In a good way, I think.

Looks like it is very quiet and lots of countryside. I suppose the earthquakes are a bit shit but that's not all the time.

[jandl100]

.... what a rip living on the bum end of the world.

Yeah, right. :eek:

http://www.slh.com/globalassets/country-pages/hero-images/new_zealand2.jpg

https://dbijapkm3o6fj.cloudfront.net/resources/2196,1004,1,6,4,0,600,450/-4601-/20150326112847/new-zealand.jpeg

[struth]

yeah i'd swap my dac for that :eek:

[Yomanze]

Im just wondering if we can get to the nitty gritty of whats in a £50/ £100/ £500 Dac compared with what the hell could be in a £3000 DAC. Pick your price point.

My gut feeling is that there is a lot of hype and clearly a flavour of the month thing going on. There are so many to choose from now as everyone has a stab at making them. A lot of style over substance going on which does sway me to some extent..see my comment about the DIY look

Someone will recommend the Chord or Arcam and then someone else will say they have that DAC 3 which is fine for them (looks like a DIY kit..very low brow with its philips head screws on the front...only half joking :))

Then we have all the other Chinese direct order boxes with or without valves in a crowded marketplace. Then that Philips chipset was in a range from cd players and people argue that the 1541 is better than the 1543 with lovely tonal qualities....... not maybe the most resolving but lovely nostalgia blah blah.

Ive seen these chips on a pcb board and I wonder about the pricing for whats in a separate DAC box

I just want a nice little box with a brushed metal panel and lots of micro leds telling me Im getting a super duper D/A conversion...What was wrong with the Dacmagic 100? :D

Some things in mine:

* Custom shielded balanced mains transformer
* Custom shielded transformer with 9x secondary windings
* Obsolete expensive parts such as Black Gate N and selected TDA1541A
* 2x Jensen jt-11-bmcf output transformers at $100 each alone
* Big aluminium chassis
* Don’t forget all the R&D and testing to get to production
* No dealer markup etc. with mine, but this can easily double the price alone

[montesquieu]

Some things in mine:

* Custom shielded balanced mains transformer
* Custom shielded transformer with 9x secondary windings
* Obsolete expensive parts such as Black Gate N and selected TDA1541A
* 2x Jensen jt-11-bmcf output transformers at $100 each alone
* Big aluminium chassis
* Don’t forget all the R&D and testing to get to production
* No dealer markup etc. with mine, but this can easily double the price alone

Yes similar in terms of valve output stage with high-end balanced output transformers, I/V transformers, black gates, valve rectification and regulation of the (hefty) PSU etc.

Generally speaking, in my view, digital is digital, with a fundamental divide between no oversampling/brick wall filtering approaches and ever more sophisticated oversampling and filtering techniques and ever higher bit rates.

My Audio Note DAC sounds better on redbook than any hi-res DAC I've ever heard. (It goes to 24/96 and who realistically needs more than that?) Why is that? Well I think it's only partly to do with the digital gubbins (great care being taken around matching impedance in the digital signal on the way in, but no fancy stuff really beyond that on the DAC side of things). It has far more to do with what happens to the output of the DAC chip once you have analogue coming out.

Apart from not seeing the need for it, this is the main reason all the supposed excitement about fancy DAC chip features leaves me cold. What's the point of fussing about bit depth and bit rates, flashing lights and conversion algorithms if all you do at the output end is stick it through an op amp - even an expensive one?

[WESTLOWER]

Yes similar in terms of valve output stage with high-end balanced output transformers, I/V transformers, black gates, valve rectification and regulation of the (hefty) PSU etc.

Generally speaking, in my view, digital is digital, with a fundamental divide between no oversampling/brick wall filtering approaches and ever more sophisticated oversampling and filtering techniques and ever higher bit rates.

My Audio Note DAC sounds better on redbook than any hi-res DAC I've ever heard. (It goes to 24/96 and who realistically needs more than that?) Why is that? Well I think it's only partly to do with the digital gubbins (great care being taken around matching impedance in the digital signal on the way in, but no fancy stuff really beyond that on the DAC side of things). It has far more to do with what happens to the output of the DAC chip once you have analogue coming out.

Apart from not seeing the need for it, this is the main reason all the supposed excitement about fancy DAC chip features leaves me cold. What's the point of fussing about bit depth and bit rates, flashing lights and conversion algorithms if all you do at the output end is stick it through an op amp - even an expensive one?

+1 on that with bells on Tom..
Check Slawa's writings on this similar line of thought and approach to digital
http://sw1xad.co.uk/news-blog/
worth a read.

[Yomanze]

Yes similar in terms of valve output stage with high-end balanced output transformers, I/V transformers, black gates, valve rectification and regulation of the (hefty) PSU etc.

Generally speaking, in my view, digital is digital, with a fundamental divide between no oversampling/brick wall filtering approaches and ever more sophisticated oversampling and filtering techniques and ever higher bit rates.

My Audio Note DAC sounds better on redbook than any hi-res DAC I've ever heard. (It goes to 24/96 and who realistically needs more than that?) Why is that? Well I think it's only partly to do with the digital gubbins (great care being taken around matching impedance in the digital signal on the way in, but no fancy stuff really beyond that on the DAC side of things). It has far more to do with what happens to the output of the DAC chip once you have analogue coming out.

Apart from not seeing the need for it, this is the main reason all the supposed excitement about fancy DAC chip features leaves me cold. What's the point of fussing about bit depth and bit rates, flashing lights and conversion algorithms if all you do at the output end is stick it through an op amp - even an expensive one?

I would much rather have a DAC that you just plugged in and it worked. Having filter choices on the DAC would wind me up to no end. If I want to do any fancy stuff like oversampling or upsampling, I do it in DSP on the computer side before it reaches the DAC. However, after extensive testing, I prefer native files - more natural to these ears, so am back to where I want to be: plug it in and play CDs or files.

I think the DAC side is important, with particular respect to multibit vs. delta/sigma DACs. I think a lot of this is that with a delta/sigma DAC you are locked into having to use digital filtering, heavy oversampling etc. whilst this can be a lot gentler, or even non-existent as I prefer, with multibit DACs. I think digital filtering is one of the main reasons digital sounds different.

[r100]

I would much rather have a DAC that you just plugged in and it worked. Having filter choices on the DAC would wind me up to no end. If I want to do any fancy stuff like oversampling or upsampling, I do it in DSP on the computer side before it reaches the DAC. However, after extensive testing, I prefer native files - more natural to these ears, so am back to where I want to be: plug it in and play CDs or files.

I think the DAC side is important, with particular respect to multibit vs. delta/sigma DACs. I think a lot of this is that with a delta/sigma DAC you are locked into having to use digital filtering, heavy oversampling etc. whilst this can be a lot gentler, or even non-existent as I prefer, with multibit DACs. I think digital filtering is one of the main reasons digital sounds different.

The second paragraph seems to negate the first :scratch: digital sounds different to .... analogue ? So, analogue has a sound ? With so many conversions going on, no wonder you prefer native files :)

[Photoguy1510]

Yea lets go back to where we live, a good photographer will make a photo of a turd and make a
It look like gold. In the South Island things tend to be pre painted and not much work needed for the gold look but I prefer stable ground. After the last quake 3 years ago Christchurch is only 30cm closer to Australia and with the quake in kraikoura last year the sea floor lifted by more than a meter and a half.

I'd not go to Australia it's not my scene I do love NZ for a fast majority of the time it's only when you need to buy any tech where things get stupid.

Back to the dac though got a Cambridge dac on loan from a friend well it makes zip zero nada change to any sound from the rotel and it degrades the sound from the yba so it went flying back to its owner pretty fast. Turns out both the rotel and Cambridge use the same wolfston chip appears they must be programmed very similar. Or that dac does not work which I think is more the case 3 filters cannot hear any real change bar maybe a touch more base from the one filter.

Much bigger change by putting the yba cd on the rotel amp much better bass response with heaps more detail in the mids and down low. Does the blue led actualy make a difference??? I'll have the 17 year old yba amp and cd any day over the rotel. Now the look for a slightly grungier yba not that it's lacking but more must be better. Why would a 50w yba amp out drive a 120w rotel? The rotel and dali sound great with the b&w good the yba and dali sound good at low vol horible past 10% but superb on the B&W up to 75% ( way too loud by then) where it starts to clip the rotel never gets it that loud. Also a huge change in ground noise the yba is olmost dead quiet at 50% between songs where the rotel is audible even at 30% and it just gets worse as the dial goes on. Have to add the rotel is very soft at 30% and I tend to have it at 50% for normal background and 65% for nice loud but not eardrum damaging sound levels. Yba is 10% for background 15-20 for loads of fun and rather big bass too much for the little dalis but very satisfying on the B&Ws.

Maybe I should put this in another post poor op going to hunt me down for being off topic.