Sony ES/ESD Opinions

[Ninanina]

I am looking to buy a new one box cd player

It would need to better my transport and AN Dac or at least as good

I've read a lot about the old Sony ES / ESD players being pretty good

The only other players I thought about were the old Marantz CD94 or one of the later Marantz SA players such as the SA-15s or maybe the Marantz SA8005

If anyone has any experience of any of these it would be most useful to hear your thoughts :)

[walpurgis]

Not really keen on Marantz CD players Bev. What about a nice Meridian 506, 20 bit or 24 bit? Or a 507? They sound lovely. :)

[agk]

Any early 90's Sony ES deck with a model number beginning with 5 or higher Bev. The prices for these are only going to go up as well so now is a good time to get one. You will not regret it, stand on me.

[karma67]

I have the Sony x555es CD player, very good imo.

[Spectral Morn]

I am looking to buy a new one box cd player

It would need to better my transport and AN Dac or at least as good

I've read a lot about the old Sony ES / ESD players being pretty good

The only other players I thought about were the old Marantz CD94 or one of the later Marantz SA players such as the SA-15s or maybe the Marantz SA8005

If anyone has any experience of any of these it would be most useful to hear your thoughts :)

Marantz SA players aren't that great, mechanisms are noisy and the CD playback is compromised over SACD, which is very good.

Marantz CD94mk2 is better than a MK1 re stand alone sound quality, but you really need something better I think to better the sound of what you have. I think a dedicated transport would raise the game for you as what you are using as transports isn't in my view anything special, others will of course disagree.

Not sure what to suggest as dedicated well made transports with quality mechanisms aren't that easy to find and no doubt someone will say what about a Cambridge, or an Audiolab, but in my view these modern designs aren't a patch on a quality vintage transport, like a Micromega, or an Audiomeca, or even a Marantz CD99, or Teac or a Wadia. Problem is getting one of these at sane money.

[Ninanina]

I've owned a Meridian, I think it was the 506.20, and while I liked it at the time it didn't come close to the transport/AN Dac

I've now ruled out the Marantz players, I wasn't so keen anyway, but I have an itch to try a good Sony. I like the look of the Sony's that use the heavy 'puck' ;)

[Macca]

I've owned a Meridian, I think it was the 506.20, and while I liked it at the time it didn't come close to the transport/AN Dac

I've now ruled out the Marantz players, I wasn't so keen anyway, but I have an itch to try a good Sony. I like the look of the Sony's that use the heavy 'puck' ;)

I've got one of those and I slot it in occasionally but it has never been on the first team permanently. Lovely mech and build, though.

[Spectral Morn]

I've owned a Meridian, I think it was the 506.20, and while I liked it at the time it didn't come close to the transport/AN Dac

I've now ruled out the Marantz players, I wasn't so keen anyway, but I have an itch to try a good Sony. I like the look of the Sony's that use the heavy 'puck' ;)

If you mean the SCD777 or SCD1 then again compromised CD playback, as their main design goal was SACD. Very good at that I owned an SCD777 once, but CD was nothing special. If the mech goes its scrap as getting one of those isn't going to be easy. Other issue is selling price is well over £1000 for an SCD777 and in and around £2000 for an SCD1.

[Ninanina]

If you mean the SCD777 or SCD1 then again compromised CD playback, as their main design goal was SACD. Very good at that I owned an SCD777 once, but CD was nothing special. If the mech goes its scrap as getting one of those isn't going to be easy. Other issue is selling price is well over £1000 for an SCD777 and in and around £2000 for an SCD1.

No I was not thinking about SACD players as I don't really have the need for SACD and, as you say, the cd playback is probably compromised. I was considering something like the CDP-XA50ES, CDP-XA5ES, CDP-XA7ES, CDP-XA555ES etc

[walpurgis]

I'd have thought you might have looked at Naim CD players Bev.

[Ninanina]

I'd have thought you might have looked at Naim CD players Bev.

Well that's the other ones I have in mind but forgot to mention it Geoff, however I have no idea how they might stack up against one of the Sony's.. :)

[Ninanina]

I am trying to work out the Sony hierarchy on their cd players

Does anyone know if a CDP-XA5ES is much the same as a CDP-XA50ES or is the 50 considered above the 5 and where would the CDP-X555ES fit in ?

Any help much appreciated ;)

[karma67]

if you near brighton at any point your welcome to hear mine :)

https://s26.postimg.org/h5g8094w9/IMG_1686_1.jpg

[karma67]

have you looked on the vintage knob web site? they have a lot of sony es gear listed

[Ninanina]

have you looked on the vintage knob web site? they have a lot of sony es gear listed

Hi Jamie
Thank you so much for the offer, much appreciated

Does your 555ES have the puck? and do you know where it sits within the Sony range?

[karma67]

no it hasn't got the puck,i think its the second to top model of its period.

[karma67]

copied from another site,

Sony's own CXD2552, this is a multi-output dual differential bitstream DAC. It's one of the best voltage output bitstream DACs ever made, and surpassed only by it's cussessor, the CXD2562, albeit not by much.
It offers true 20-bit dynamic range and low noise as well as good jitter rejection. Sony's first SACD player actually sued the CXD2562 for CD playback, so this basic architecture was used up to the late 90's.
The difital filter in front of the DAC is again Sony's own design. This is what changed from the predecessor, X55ES, then (with the change of DAC chips) well into the XA range years later. The basic DAC structure remained the same. By today's standards the digital filter remains decent, and the DAC is still top-notch. Unlike other offerings of that kind it operates on a higher frequency alowing simplified output filter design.

The X555, 333, 777 share the same basic transport. The 777 adds a few bits of mechanical stabilization but it's really the same. It's the last instance of Sony's legendary linear motor aluminium base drive - the only rotating part in it is the spindle motor, it has no gears at all, and really only two moving parts, which is the reason for it being so reliable, and why X777 (also 779, 707) fetsh high prices, even if they are only used as transports.

The basic structure of the lineup goes like this:
3xx has the same laser, DAC (single) and mechanism, and a single transformer for the power supply (but with separated secondaries for analog and digital). These units tend to be really good sounding and in some cases even surpass the 5xx from the same lineup. They are also very tweakable, and generally top-notch for the price.
5xx usually has dual power transformers and supplies, and a more complex analog output but the transport and DAC scheme remain the same.
7xx are the units where all stops have been taken out. It only takes a look under the hood to recognise that. They have dual power transformers, ultiple power supplies, dual DACs running in balanced mode, usually there are also balanced outputs - and at some time or other they were ALL reference machines for at least one, and often many test setups you could see in the HiFi press. Because of this, it's very hard to surpass them even today.

Later units after the X707 (the XA range) already saw signs of penny saving. They are by no means bad units, quite the oposite, but gone are the discrete regulators, copper chasis in lower parts of the range, havy vibration-proof transformers (newer units use smaller R-cores), etc. Still, LOTS of bang for the buck.

[Macca]

This is the ES player that uses the fixed mech with the puck:

http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-CDP-XA7ES.html

Might be a bit spendy.

This is the QS version (930QS) I have which you can get for about a ton, less if you drop on:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=ti7j4tGl&id=04AAF7AE19F56C275BE20BD391538E253B6E7DAC&thid=OIP.ti7j4tGlSvLYFIJwVrXcnQEsC-&q=sony+cd+player+930QS&simid=608019993341331008&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0

[struth]

Sony CDP-XA20ES uses a puck too

[Ninanina]

This is the ES player that uses the fixed mech with the puck:

http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-CDP-XA7ES.html

Might be a bit spendy.

This is the QS version (930QS) I have which you can get for about a ton, less if you drop on:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=ti7j4tGl&id=04AAF7AE19F56C275BE20BD391538E253B6E7DAC&thid=OIP.ti7j4tGlSvLYFIJwVrXcnQEsC-&q=sony+cd+player+930QS&simid=608019993341331008&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0

Great thanks Martin I hadn't noted the QS range but have no idea if it's the equal to the ES/ESD range it just looks to be more moden looking and a lot cheaper as well ;)

[agk]

The QS range was a cheap attempt to recapture some of the ES glory. Doesn't stand comparison.

[Ninanina]

The QS range was a cheap attempt to recapture some of the ES glory. Doesn't stand comparison.

Thanks Andrew. I did notice that the QS range is made in France rather than Japan and they seem to weigh about half the ES range.. I am a lover of most Japan made items so think I will stick to looking at the ES/ESD range :)

[Macca]

The QS range was a cheap attempt to recapture some of the ES glory. Doesn't stand comparison.

Pretty much, although it is still good kit at its price level.

[Mikeandvan]

Can someone explain the Sony amps hierarchy? For instance 500 ES, 700es/730es/ and FA3es. Am I right in thinking the fewer numbers the higher the quality? I.e. FA3ES higher than 300ES.

[agk]

It's way more complicated than that but the main thing to know is that the first digit is key.
7 beats 5 and 5 beats 3
A good place to study these things is TVK or The Vintage Knob.

[JimC]

All (I think) of the players being mentioned will have Over-Sampling and Digital Filtering whereas your current DAC has none of that.
Are you not happy with the 'NOS' sound?

I would keep the Transport and look to upgrade your DAC. Going further up the A/N range perhaps?

Jim

[karma67]

What sort of money would you have to spend to better the dac in the Sony 555 I wonder?

[dantheman91]

Why not just use the Pioneer Precision?

[Pieoftheday]

The QS range was a cheap attempt to recapture some of the ES glory. Doesn't stand comparison.

Never compared the qs to the es but I had one of the qs CD players, forget which one but it was really nice and natural sounding,paired with a ta fb 940 UK amp, built like a biscuit tin mind:)

[Mikeandvan]

It's way more complicated than that but the main thing to know is that the first digit is key.
7 beats 5 and 5 beats 3
A good place to study these things is TVK or The Vintage Knob.
Thanks, I also had the impression that fewer numbers meant top of the range. So the amp ta-fa3ES beats ta-fa300es.

[agk]

No! Don't touch the TA-FA3ES. Two very different ranges. The 3 is later and about when Sony were winding their range down.

[Mikeandvan]

No! Don't touch the TA-FA3ES. Two very different ranges. The 3 is later and about when Sony were winding their range down.

Oh, its complicated. So high numbers good, low bad?

[agk]

Complicated it is. Generally speaking though aim for kit starting with 5 or higher in ES ranges.

[flatpopely]

The CDP338ESD continues to amaze me! It's a bit of a forgotten gem.
Super mechanism, copper power bars, dual PCM58J.

https://c3ukag.bn1303.livefilestore.com/y4mQKLG-5Qh-YixhdJC3slOKnfo7EAysiAmlM1THgmB5gDDpRcJGZTE75uVbtK x4FfHBnhIT4recSBRbHLyfjp0-dhthVloBd9EVay8hb7qMugiCse_ean2kgpzm3QniliHI6puY-zbDiXzU3o6_7s3sUkRTv4KuPKKmLiNWEkCYQvZg8fl55TgOWZ-g5R4GEVI-9XxHg3tXdGj8g58cSbXyA?width=1024&height=681&cropmode=none

https://bhulag.bn1303.livefilestore.com/y4mmQnChTRPAjABFvn1bn3CH1IehHJYyA1dnqqZ5vE1a72C8fi nSbxkx3Z8C8ltISo1f8ubPY0XK1xl7A1o1on2hPuBGJu1nrHT1 IGHK7ReQBtLlJZSM7F23qOpmMmdMqhH3ZRJtXhcN8xsX8-PPA5JZv81qTK6G6SfpnsZ6mcnt1LT9-KOGZOyG09aKJWVo7WupQoHZJ5YqM-mJcusZig9dQ?width=1024&height=681&cropmode=none

[Mikeandvan]

Complicated it is. Generally speaking though aim for kit starting with 5 or higher in ES ranges.
OK, cheers, I'd like to try a more powerful amp, so that I can then try some mini monitors, as these are power hungry so I hear. Currently a dedicated Naimie, with the classic 72/140/hicap, but want to try a high end Sony integrated.

[struth]

The CDP338ESD continues to amaze me! It's a bit of a forgotten gem.
Super mechanism, copper power bars, dual PCM58J.

https://c3ukag.bn1303.livefilestore.com/y4mQKLG-5Qh-YixhdJC3slOKnfo7EAysiAmlM1THgmB5gDDpRcJGZTE75uVbtK x4FfHBnhIT4recSBRbHLyfjp0-dhthVloBd9EVay8hb7qMugiCse_ean2kgpzm3QniliHI6puY-zbDiXzU3o6_7s3sUkRTv4KuPKKmLiNWEkCYQvZg8fl55TgOWZ-g5R4GEVI-9XxHg3tXdGj8g58cSbXyA?width=1024&height=681&cropmode=none

https://bhulag.bn1303.livefilestore.com/y4mmQnChTRPAjABFvn1bn3CH1IehHJYyA1dnqqZ5vE1a72C8fi nSbxkx3Z8C8ltISo1f8ubPY0XK1xl7A1o1on2hPuBGJu1nrHT1 IGHK7ReQBtLlJZSM7F23qOpmMmdMqhH3ZRJtXhcN8xsX8-PPA5JZv81qTK6G6SfpnsZ6mcnt1LT9-KOGZOyG09aKJWVo7WupQoHZJ5YqM-mJcusZig9dQ?width=1024&height=681&cropmode=none

nice player that one. still make decent money too

[Ninanina]

Well I THINK I have a Naim cd player coming in the next few days. Purchased it from a good dealer with a 6 month warranty. Just need to call the dealer tomorrow to finalise things... we will see :)

[dantheman91]

Just got a lovely Sony 308 ESD lovely.. Walked in room guy demoing through tannoy Buckinghams and leak til 50s..WOW...

[Ninanina]

Well my Naim cd has arrived and is in the system

My initial impressions are actually not that good. My current transport and dac sound better than the Naim

So the Naim may well be sold on

However I have an urge to try a Chord Dac with the Naim as transport as I do love the drawer loading system of the Naim

[farflungstar]

There is a chord Hugo on eBay at the moment - or the was.

[struth]

Well my Naim cd has arrived and is in the system

My initial impressions are actually not that good. My current transport and dac sound better than the Naim

So the Naim may well be sold on

However I have an urge to try a Chord Dac with the Naim as transport as I do love the drawer loading system of the Naim

did u try it through the a n?

[Ninanina]

did u try it through the a n?

No not yet Grant but will do

[struth]

Be interested as to result Bev

[2kings]

My Sony CDP557ESD with Trichord Clock 4 and PSU sounds very nice.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=21591&d=1507829440
Photo before the installation of clock 4.