View Full Version : Vegans and Vegetarians
Haselsh1
23-09-2017, 15:08
Right then, this year I have made quite a few new acquaintences with vegans and vegetarians and do not under any circumstance want this to be directed at any individual or establishment. I do not want what I am about to say to be taken as some kind of psuedo religous rant or anti statement but I just don't think they get the whole concept of animal cruelty.
Back in the late seventies I worked for a huge chemical giant that specialised in agrochemicals that were mainly unbelievably toxic. I think we have all heard of permethrin...? Well, to take one example, this one, the company decided that permethrin (an active pyrethroid) was not efficient enough so they tagged a cyanide molecule on to it to make the new active ingredient cypermethrin. I worked on this compound for many years carrying out product development and optimisation. Cypermethrin is used worldwide to kill the cotton weevil that if not addressed will decimate cotton crops. Cotton is used by vegans for clothing. So am I correct that it is OK to kill billions of insects every minute of every day throughout the world but it is cruel and inhummane to kill animals that look cute and cuddly but on which we feed...?
Most animals are killed by what is considered humane methods but insects are killed by chemical warfare which is effectively the equivalent of using a nerve toxin on a human as cypermethrin works as a neurotoxin. Yes, one could argue that insects are not sentient beings and therefore they are nothing like us but what other animals in the world are actually like us...? What animals are aware of life and death...?
I'll start on GMO's next...!
Marco, if this is too sensitive then please delete.
walpurgis
23-09-2017, 15:28
Where do you draw the line Shaun, Is there pity for the millions of bacteria that die when you pour a bit of bleach down the sink? Do you stop walking about, for fear of inevitably stepping on insects? Do you stop digging the garden in order to avoid bisecting earthworms?
On the other hand. Those who like meat, might like to go and kill their own cow...........................with their bare hands, just to keep it fair. See who comes out on top 'eh?
Haselsh1
23-09-2017, 15:34
Maybe this is where we should draw the line:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism
narabdela
23-09-2017, 18:49
I really don't have a problem with vegans or vegetarians. I think they're seriously misguided. Humans are omnivorous, but as long as they don't judge my eating choices that's ok.
It's when they start proselytising that I start to lose it.
Humans have been farming animals for a long time. Most of the animals wouldn't exist now if we didn't tbh. Cereal crops are the staples. I don't eat a lot of meat but would rather die than stop.
As said above if they leave me to mine I will do likewise
farflungstar
23-09-2017, 19:06
Hmmm - I eat meat but I have to say that all animals have a greater or lesser degree of sentience. Elephants go away from the herd to die and mourn their dead for days, etc.
If someone threatened me with a gun I'd be very aware of my mortality - if you hold a gun to my dog she won't care, not because she isn't sentient but because she had no understanding of a gun. She is however aware that cars are dangerous and will not walk in the road, though I've never told her not to. She knows fire is also bad for her. I am only aware of my own mortality because I recognise the threat - but all animals respond to danger in the same way as us. The difference is they cannot communicate it to us and they are not at the same level - god forbid, the way we treat them sometimes. My opinion of course.
I might add I abhor cruelty to animals. Oh and bugs and bacteria both have a major positive impact of the planet.
rubber duck
23-09-2017, 20:05
So am I correct that it is OK to kill billions of insects every minute of every day throughout the world but it is cruel and inhummane to kill animals that look cute and cuddly but on which we feed...?
You are wrong in assuming that being vegetarian is simply about cruelty to animals. Eating meat is not environmentally sustainable and one future scenario is that we will be eating insects.
My last post on subject; humans need to start taking responsibility for their breeding. There are far too many folk having huge families still when its both unnessessary and unsustainable. I lay this mostly at the male door.
walpurgis
23-09-2017, 20:32
There are far too many folk having huge families still when its both unnessessary and unsustainable
We need a cull! :eek:
farflungstar
23-09-2017, 20:43
We need organisation. There is enough food wasted each year to feed everyone on the planet. But luckily sales of meat are actually going down.
Werner Berghofer
23-09-2017, 21:01
Hugh,
I really don't have a problem with vegans or vegetarians. I think they're seriously misguided.I think they are responsible people full of sympathy and empathy for other inhabitants of planet Earth.
Humans are omnivorous […]But in contrast to other animals, Homo sapiens have the option to feed differently.
Werner.
narabdela
23-09-2017, 21:17
Hugh,
I think they are responsible people full of sympathy and empathy for other inhabitants of planet Earth.
But in contrast to other animals, Homo sapiens have the option to feed differently.
Werner.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Please don't expect me to share it.
Werner Berghofer
24-09-2017, 07:13
Hugh,
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.many thanks for your generosity.
Werner.
My last post on subject; humans need to start taking responsibility for their breeding. There are far too many folk having huge families still when its both unnessessary and unsustainable.
Lol - and how true is that!! And it's nearly always those most unfit to be parents (in terms of having adequate income to support their offspring, and education to bring them up properly) who have the largest amount of kids... Work that one out. Probably because all they're good at is breeding more 'zombies'! :doh:
Best not get me started on this, as it's a MAJOR bugbear of mine ;)
I'll get to the veggie/vegan thing later.
Marco.
farflungstar
24-09-2017, 08:43
Lol - and how true is that!! And it's nearly always those most unfit to be parents (in terms of income to support them, and education to bring them up properly) who have the largest amount of kids... Work that one out, probably because all they're good at is breeding more 'zombies'! :doh:
Best not get me started on this, as it's a MAJOR bugbear of mine ;)
I'll get to the veggie/vegan thing later.
Marco.I agree. But once we allow governments to decide who and how many we are giving up the most basic of human rights. It's an extremely difficult problem and not uniformly spread. In countries such as Spain and Japan for example there are too few births, whilst in others too many. Legislation etc could tackle the issue but again, at the same time strip us of our natural right to breed - with people like Trump and May deciding what you can do with your genitals - no thanks.
Have some of you never heard of the food chain? Here's a diagram;
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=21456&d=1506244901
walpurgis
24-09-2017, 09:29
our natural right to breed
Where does it say we have this? A natural desire to breed, yes, but why should it be a right? Any more than say, driving through a shopping centre at 100 miles an hour, which is of course unacceptable and illegal. Perhaps having excess offspring (especially state supported), should be illegal too?
farflungstar
24-09-2017, 09:37
Where does it say we have this? A natural desire to breed, yes, but why should it be a right? Any more than say, driving through a shopping centre at 100 miles an hour, which is of course unacceptable and illegal. Perhaps having excess offspring (especially state supported), should be illegal too?The same reason no one has the right to tell me what to think - tis a slippery slope to complete control by regime, as China. As I said, I agree with everything said - but the cost to implement such measures would be unacceptable.
walpurgis
24-09-2017, 09:40
the cost to implement such measures would be unacceptable.
Has a study been done? Pehaps benefits might outweigh costs.
Has a study been done? Pehaps benefits might outweigh costs.
Indeed, and the results would make interesting reading. Something has to be done though, as the current situation is untenable...
Out of interest, does anyone watch the programme 'Can't Pay We'll Take it Away'?
Ever noticed how the majority of civilians who get themselves into horrendous debt (often by trying to defraud the system) are black or asian people with a dozen kids? And there are THOUSANDS of these folk about.
I'm exaggerating the number of kids slightly, but you get my point! There's always a significant handful. So why have so many bloody kids in the first place, if you can neither afford them, nor put a proper roof over your head and theirs??
There just seems to be a complete absence of forward planning, with the mentality of 'we'll just bang 'em out and worry about the outcome later'... Might it make more sense to keep your dick in your pants more often, and do something else with your time?
Just a thought! :doh::rolleyes:
Marco.
farflungstar
24-09-2017, 11:06
Indeed, and the results would make interesting reading. Something has to be done though, as the current situation is untenable...
Out of interest, does anyone watch the programme 'Can't Pay We'll Take it Away'? Ever noticed how the majority of civilians who get themselves into horrendous debt (often by trying to dodge the system) are black or asian people with a dozen kids? And there are THOUSANDS of these folk about.
I'm exaggerating the number of kids there slightly, but you get my point! There's always a significant handful. So why have so many bloody kids in the first place, if you can neither afford them, nor put a proper roof over your head??
Might it make more sense to keep your dick in your trousers more often? :doh::rolleyes:
Marco.I've known lots of council trash white families with 6 kids each wth a different father. It's not a race issue, though may be connected with Child Allowance
walpurgis
24-09-2017, 11:10
I've known lots of council trash white families with 6 kids each wth a different father. It's not a race issue, though may be connected with Child Allowance
Quite right. It's a ploy to not work, get housed free and have unearned income for life. Many single mothers out there who regard this as a 'career'! :rolleyes:
I've known lots of council trash white families with 6 kids each wth a different father. It's not a race issue, though may be connected with Child Allowance
Sure, but it's interesting how such "council trash white families" are rarely featured on the programme...
Geoff hits the nail on the head on his post, and it's *that" which needs to be stopped, along with I'd suggest setting a limit on how many kids each family is allowed to have, plus every one that they do bring into this earth, they should be made to pay for and support THEMSELVES, without relying on handouts from the government.
If they're not in a position to do that, then 'tuck dicky away' until they are, which would be means assessed. Simples! ;)
Marco.
most of the stuff on those programmes is altered reality so some others can heap scorn on them. Since when could we trust the media not to have an agenda?
farflungstar
24-09-2017, 11:45
Sure, but it's interesting how such "council trash white families" are rarely featured on the programme...
Geoff hits the nail on the head on his post, and it's *that" which needs to be stopped, along with I'd suggest setting a limit on how many kids each family is allowed to have, plus every one that they do bring into this earth, they should be made to pay for and support THEMSELVES, without relying on handouts from the government.
If they're not in a position to do that, then 'tuck dicky away' until they are, which would be means assessed. Simples! ;)
Marco.I wasnt talking about a programme (?) - just my experience whilst living in Hull, Manchester and Leeds.
I wasnt talking about a programme (?) - just my experience whilst living in Hull, Manchester and Leeds.
Sure, there are a lot at it, and many more trapped in it, but once in there it can be pretty difficult to get out. (Im not making excuses for folk by way, they, the worst offenders need reeducation)
...providing, that is, that they *want* re-educating in the first place.
Many of these layabouts, who pop-out sprogs like turds, are quite happy to continue doing so, and be paid nicely for the privilege, whist remaining idle and polluting the planet with their 'zombies'! :rolleyes:
Marco.
...providing, that is, that they *want* re-educating in the first place.
Many of these layabouts, who pop-out sprogs like turds, are quite happy to continue doing so, and be paid nicely for the privilege, whist remaining idle and polluting the planet with their 'zombies'! :rolleyes:
Marco.
You might like to watch this:
https://www.amazon.com/Idiocracy-Luke-Wilson/dp/B0040D4F1S/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1506261247&sr=1-1&keywords=idiocracy
Based on the idea that parents having a low IQ tend to have more children, and more frequently, than parents with a higher IQ, so eventually the world is populated with, and governed by, ever increasingly dumb people. :rolleyes:
Sounds about right, Barry! Donald Trump... Need I say more?? :doh::rolleyes:
I'll have a look at your Amazon link, ta.
Marco.
walpurgis
24-09-2017, 14:22
You might like to watch this:
https://www.amazon.com/Idiocracy-Luke-Wilson/dp/B0040D4F1S/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1506261247&sr=1-1&keywords=idiocracy
Based on the idea that parents having a low IQ tend to have more children, and more frequently, than parents with a higher IQ, so eventually the world is populated with, and governed by, ever increasingly dumb people. :rolleyes:
Ah. Perhaps we'll see a new Pol Pot emerging. The idiots will wipe out the educated! Year Zero UK, now there's a thought. ;)
Thank goodness most of us will be dead by then!
Marco.
farflungstar
24-09-2017, 15:19
Thank goodness most of us will be dead by then!
Marco.Yup thank God.
Marco I just pm'd you about something....
Yeah, got it mate. Bit busy right now, but will reply later :)
Marco.
Indeed, and the results would make interesting reading. Something has to be done though, as the current situation is untenable...
Out of interest, does anyone watch the programme 'Can't Pay We'll Take it Away'?
Programmes like that are the televisual equivalent of the Daily Mail: 'Here are some poor people for you to look down on/laugh at/condemn. Aren't you glad you're not like that? PS A lot of them have darker skins than you and they breed like flies'
The same type of rhetoric was used of Irish Catholics back in the mid-19th century, of Russian Jews in the late 19th century, and of German Jews and similar untermensch in the mid-20th century.
It seems a long way from the message propounded by Jesus Christ.
Programmes like that are the televisual equivalent of the Daily Mail: 'Here are some poor people for you to look down on/laugh at/condemn.
Some of them aren't so poor, Joe. In fact, some are millionaires and landed gentry, simply unwilling to pay their debts until the last possible second. They're the ones I laugh at and pour scorn upon, because I detest folk with that attitude.
Others I feel sorry for, because they are simply hapless victims of the system or business people who've fallen on hard times, and I sympathise with them. It's just disposable TV, but I find some of the situations depicted quite entertaining.
The point I'm making about the kids, is that there are plenty of white people shown on the programme, poor and otherwise, but none I've seen so far have more kids than pounds in their bank account... It seems to be the "darker skins", as you put it, who "breed like flies", and appear to exhibit no self-control in their desire to procreate, when they haven't got two pennies to rub together.
Although I realise that may be how the producers of the programme choose to portray things (for whatever reason), the same evidence of that behaviour is very evident in real life, and it's one of the reasons that the countries where they come from have a massive overpopulation issue, which more and more is also being transferred onto the streets of cities like London.
I think it's a deep-rooted cultural/mindset thing, and it needs controlling fast, as the current level of such irresponsible breeding is completely unsustainable.
Marco.
Basically, the better the education, the smaller the family. Up until not that long ago, in Britain at least, it was Irish Catholics who had bigger families. This was partly down to the Church's teaching in birth control, and partly because Irish Catholics tended to come from a rural background, where the bigger the family the better, because there would (eventually) be more hands to work the land. Gradually, Catholic families have become smaller, and I would imagine the same thing will happen other ethnic minority groups in due course.
The problem with the type of programme you mentioned, and with the Daily Mail in particular, is that they give the government the public support they need to target 'benefit scroungers', with the result that people genuinely in need of help are subjected to additional pressures. For example, people with serious mental and physical disabilities are having to 'prove' they are unfit to work even when they are clearly not able to hold down a job. Many have committed suicide as a result. Meanwhile, attention is usefully deflected from those individuals and companies at the top of the money tree who manage their financial affairs in such a way as to avoid paying much, or indeed any tax. They also bung the political parties a few hundred thousand pounds every now and then to keep them sweet.
I don't eat a lot of meat but would rather die than stop.
I'm as fond of a bacon sarnie as the next man, but I think I could do without if death was the alternative.
Gradually, Catholic families have become smaller, and I would imagine the same thing will happen other ethnic minority groups in due course.
Mmm... I'm not so sure. What makes you think so? I'm doubtful because I don't believe those currently in the UK are driven by the same beliefs (such as you've outlined) as Catholics and Irish Catholics once were. I think they just keep 'popping 'em out' because they believe that's what's expected of them, regardless.
What I don't get is why these folk seem incapable of thinking before acting, or applying any kind of forward planning, in terms of ascertaining *exactly* how they're going to properly support and pay for all these babies that they're bringing into the world. I'm talking here *solely* about those 'living' in the UK.
Are they really *that* dim/ill-educated that they're completely incapable of any form of rational thought? I think not.
The problem with the type of programme you mentioned, and with the Daily Mail in particular, is that they give the government the public support they need to target 'benefit scroungers', with the result that people genuinely in need of help are subjected to additional pressures. For example, people with serious mental and physical disabilities are having to 'prove' they are unfit to work even when they are clearly not able to hold down a job. Many have committed suicide as a result. Meanwhile, attention is usefully deflected from those individuals and companies at the top of the money tree who manage their financial affairs in such a way as to avoid paying much, or indeed any tax. They also bung the political parties a few hundred thousand pounds every now and then to keep them sweet.
Absolutely, and I abhor that type of behaviour with a passion... I'd happily see wankers like that on the streets and completely destitute!!
Marco.
Mmm... I'm not so sure. What makes you think so? I'm doubtful because I don't believe those currently in the UK are driven by the same beliefs as Catholics and Irish Catholics once were.
Partly it's my own family history. My mother, who came from an Irish Catholic background, was one of seven children. She had four children, and would have had more had she not been warned that it would be medically dangerous for herself and any future children. Between the four of us, we have had nine children, but there's only three children in the next generation (and most of my nieces and nephews are in their forties now, so there's unlikely to be many more). The experiences of many of my contemporaries at school has been similar; they came from families of four or five children, but have limited themselves to one or two.
As I said upthread, Irish Catholics were, not too long ago, stigmatised for producing too many children for whom they could not provide. Here, for example, is an extract from a US writer at the end of the 19th century:
'We owe it to our children to adopt an amendment to the constitution which shall forbid appropriations for the benefit of any institution under sectarian control or for any religious or non-religious sect. All ecclesiastical property shall be held in trust by a board of trustees numbering not less than five members of the congregation owning or donating the property. No property shall be exempt from taxation except it belong to the state or nation. All new voters shall be able to read and write. Unless such an amendment be passed, Rome will hold the republic in her grasp. The ballot is not free. Romanists are slaves of a foreign master.
The plan is thus outlined to subvert our free institutions and to papalize America: "Send over the surplus population of Europe. They will come with foreign views and feelings and will form a heterogeneous mass, and in the course of time rise and overthrow the republic."
Keep such facts before the people, and there will be a coming out from Rome or a coming out against Rome. I would not be an alarmist. The republic cannot afford to forget the peril: 1. In free immigration, which is bringing to America the scum of Europe. 2. The surrender to Rome through marriage, in which children are given to Rome. 3. The constant inculcation of fertility, ostensibly to carry out the Biblical injunction but really to increase political power. 4. The influence of the women's rights craze, which is giving our school interests over the Roman Catholics.'
Sound familiar?
Poorly educated women tend to have children as a means of boosting their self-worth.
Incidentally, Joe, I read the Daily Mail sometimes when I am at my mother's house and there is never anything in it like you describe. Aside from a couple of pages of sport and world news it is more like one of those women's magazines: Full of articles about healthy eating and cures for cancer. Don't get me wrong, it is completely shit as a newspaper, but not in the way you or all the other people who never read it imagine it to be.
Poorly educated women tend to have children as a means of boosting their self-worth.
Interesting... Maybe they should get a job instead! So what excuse do the men have?
There's nothing like earning a living and supporting yourself, for boosting self-worth. And it doesn't matter what that job is, the point is that it makes you feel proud (or should do) because you're not relying on handouts from others. Then pop-out a few sprogs when you have the means to support them, not the other way round...
Somehow, for a lot of these folk, I don't think that's exactly their mentality! ;)
Marco.
Basically, the better the education, the smaller the family. Up until not that long ago, in Britain at least, it was Irish Catholics who had bigger families. This was partly down to the Church's teaching in birth control, and partly because Irish Catholics tended to come from a rural background, where the bigger the family the better, because there would (eventually) be more hands to work the land. Gradually, Catholic families have become smaller, and I would imagine the same thing will happen other ethnic minority groups in due course.
The problem with the type of programme you mentioned, and with the Daily Mail in particular, is that they give the government the public support they need to target 'benefit scroungers', with the result that people genuinely in need of help are subjected to additional pressures. For example, people with serious mental and physical disabilities are having to 'prove' they are unfit to work even when they are clearly not able to hold down a job. Many have committed suicide as a result. Meanwhile, attention is usefully deflected from those individuals and companies at the top of the money tree who manage their financial affairs in such a way as to avoid paying much, or indeed any tax. They also bung the political parties a few hundred thousand pounds every now and then to keep them sweet.
Usea lot of dirty tricks too to stop payment on disabled etc too.
Must go to an address in a big city where parking is difficult. Situate the office up stairs. Make sure the lift is out of order. If you get up stairs your obviously fit irrellevent of how you got up. Dont get up, then youve missed appointment and money stopped.. the list is endless.
Poorly educated women tend to have children as a means of boosting their self-worth.
Incidentally, Joe, I read the Daily Mail sometimes when I am at my mother's house and there is never anything in it like you describe. Aside from a couple of pages of sport and world news it is more like one of those women's magazines: Full of articles about healthy eating and cures for cancer. Don't get me wrong, it is completely shit as a newspaper, but not in the way you or all the other people who never read it imagine it to be.
Fair enough. I can't actually remember the last time I even glanced through a copy. Certainly the Mail Online is basically celebs' 'wardrobe malfunctions' and not much more.
Fair enough. I can't actually remember the last time I even glanced through a copy. Certainly the Mail Online is basically celebs' 'wardrobe malfunctions' and not much more.
Yes, it is that sort of thing. Plus loads of ads for cruises and stairlifts. It's dull as ditchwater I'm afraid.
Interesting... Maybe they should get a job instead! So what excuse do the men have?
.
The men aren't looking to produce children, they just want a shag and figure it is up to the women to take precautions. If she doesn't then it is her problem. That's why you get these birds with 5 children by 5 different fathers, none of whom pay any support and all of whom have another 5 kids with 5 other women.
Spectral Morn
25-09-2017, 11:29
Right then, this year I have made quite a few new acquaintences with vegans and vegetarians and do not under any circumstance want this to be directed at any individual or establishment. I do not want what I am about to say to be taken as some kind of psuedo religous rant or anti statement but I just don't think they get the whole concept of animal cruelty.
Back in the late seventies I worked for a huge chemical giant that specialised in agrochemicals that were mainly unbelievably toxic. I think we have all heard of permethrin...? Well, to take one example, this one, the company decided that permethrin (an active pyrethroid) was not efficient enough so they tagged a cyanide molecule on to it to make the new active ingredient cypermethrin. I worked on this compound for many years carrying out product development and optimisation. Cypermethrin is used worldwide to kill the cotton weevil that if not addressed will decimate cotton crops. Cotton is used by vegans for clothing. So am I correct that it is OK to kill billions of insects every minute of every day throughout the world but it is cruel and inhummane to kill animals that look cute and cuddly but on which we feed...?
Most animals are killed by what is considered humane methods but insects are killed by chemical warfare which is effectively the equivalent of using a nerve toxin on a human as cypermethrin works as a neurotoxin. Yes, one could argue that insects are not sentient beings and therefore they are nothing like us but what other animals in the world are actually like us...? What animals are aware of life and death...?
I'll start on GMO's next...!
Marco, if this is too sensitive then please delete.
Some build cities, farm, harvest, and wage war.... sounds pretty human to me.
But being serious folks often have a propensity for selective thinking and not following through on their convictions, so there is hierarchy of what is and isn't ok. Often that leads to hypocrisy.
Vegetables are living and eating them kills them.
I eat meat and yes I have been to a slaughter house and seen what happens and I am happy to eat meat. Frankly slaughtering animals is less cruel than hunting them down and killing them out in the wild, but only slightly less cruel. I am content that things are as humane as possible and I think that is much as we can do. If folks want to avoid meat and wearing leather etc I really don't mind though producing artificial fabrics is costly to the environment particularly artificial leather which is a type of plastic :doh:
Partly it's my own family history. My mother, who came from an Irish Catholic background, was one of seven children. She had four children, and would have had more had she not been warned that it would be medically dangerous for herself and any future children. Between the four of us, we have had nine children, but there's only three children in the next generation (and most of my nieces and nephews are in their forties now, so there's unlikely to be many more). The experiences of many of my contemporaries at school has been similar; they came from families of four or five children, but have limited themselves to one or two.
As I said upthread, Irish Catholics were, not too long ago, stigmatised for producing too many children for whom they could not provide. Here, for example, is an extract from a US writer at the end of the 19th century:
'We owe it to our children to adopt an amendment to the constitution which shall forbid appropriations for the benefit of any institution under sectarian control or for any religious or non-religious sect. All ecclesiastical property shall be held in trust by a board of trustees numbering not less than five members of the congregation owning or donating the property. No property shall be exempt from taxation except it belong to the state or nation. All new voters shall be able to read and write. Unless such an amendment be passed, Rome will hold the republic in her grasp. The ballot is not free. Romanists are slaves of a foreign master.
The plan is thus outlined to subvert our free institutions and to papalize America: "Send over the surplus population of Europe. They will come with foreign views and feelings and will form a heterogeneous mass, and in the course of time rise and overthrow the republic."
Keep such facts before the people, and there will be a coming out from Rome or a coming out against Rome. I would not be an alarmist. The republic cannot afford to forget the peril: 1. In free immigration, which is bringing to America the scum of Europe. 2. The surrender to Rome through marriage, in which children are given to Rome. 3. The constant inculcation of fertility, ostensibly to carry out the Biblical injunction but really to increase political power. 4. The influence of the women's rights craze, which is giving our school interests over the Roman Catholics.'
Sound familiar?
Yes, but I don't think it should prevent anyone from thinking for themselves, regardless of what they (perhaps) have been brainwashed into believing. I'm a practicing Catholic, believe in God and try and live my life according to the teachings of my faith.
*BUT*, if I disagree with some of those teachings or consider that they've been manipulated/mangled, over the years by those with a biased agenda, then I still have a mind of my own, with which to choose to dismiss them.
A good example of this is gay people, and how God apparently frowns upon them (and subsequently those beliefs are practiced by the Catholic church). Bollocks! God MADE THEM GAY in the first place, the same as he made hetrosexual people and every other living being and creature on earth, so how could he possibly be anti-gay??
No, that bit was clearly 'written into' the scriptures in the distant past by some misguided homophobe. It certainly wasn't the word of God.
You have to learn sometimes to CHALLENGE and QUESTION your beliefs, not simply follow them like a mindless sheep... And that also applies to the ethnic minorities you're referring to - at least those capable of thinking for themselves.
Marco.
I have no argument with any of that. My possibly over-optimitistic view is that people of other faiths will gradually become more pragmatic and less dogmatic about the teachings of their chosen religion. In some ways, the Church of England got there ahead of anyone else, in Britain at least; it is a broad church which accommodates a wide range of beliefs, from almost-Catholic to almost-agnostic.
The men aren't looking to produce children, they just want a shag and figure it is up to the women to take precautions. If she doesn't then it is her problem. That's why you get these birds with 5 children by 5 different fathers, none of whom pay any support and all of whom have another 5 kids with 5 other women.
Indeed, and it's neanderthal. They're no better than feral animals, and I detest folk who shirk away from their responsibilities.
Good job a lot of these thoughtless, irresponsible wankers are eventually caught and MADE to PAY for their offspring, by the relevant authorities. Me? I'd castrate them as soon as they reached puberty!
They're simply no use to man nor beast.
Marco.
I have no argument with any of that. My possibly over-optimitistic view is that people of other faiths will gradually become more pragmatic and less dogmatic about the teachings of their chosen religion. In some ways, the Church of England got there ahead of anyone else, in Britain at least; it is a broad church which accommodates a wide range of beliefs, from almost-Catholic to almost-agnostic.
Dogmatism, in any form, has a lot to answer for. I abhor that mentality, as apart from anything else, it stifles learning, and with it, progress. Always be a free-thinker!
Marco.
Beobloke
25-09-2017, 12:08
Sure, but it's interesting how such "council trash white families" are rarely featured on the programme...
There may be a reason behind this!
There was a television series filmed in my hometown of Southampton a couple of years back, called Immigration Street, that featured a poor street close to the centre of town, where most of the residents were immigrants and this was to be the focus of the documentary. Six episodes were filmed but only one or two were ever broadcast due to the outcry about it - I watched it and it was quite funny. Why? Simply, because the white English people all came across as lazy, thick, racist layabouts. The Pakistanis, Poles, Indians and other ethnic monorities all came across as decent, hardworking and, largely, pretty intelligent and considerate.
As to the original subject of this topic, I actually have more sympathy with the views of vegans than I do vegetarians, as I can understand their point of view, even though I do not agree with it. Many vegetarians I have encountered strike me as rather hypocritical, when they stroll in wearing their leather shoes and explaining how they don't eat meat becuase of their principles. Except fish of course. And chicken sometimes!
Finally, there is the old joke which has a ring of truth about it - "How do you know if someone is a vegan?" "Don't worry - they'll soon tell you" :D
Haselsh1
25-09-2017, 12:14
You might like to watch this:
https://www.amazon.com/Idiocracy-Luke-Wilson/dp/B0040D4F1S/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1506261247&sr=1-1&keywords=idiocracy
Based on the idea that parents having a low IQ tend to have more children, and more frequently, than parents with a higher IQ, so eventually the world is populated with, and governed by, ever increasingly dumb people. :rolleyes:
Oh thank you Barry, I never had children due to overthinking things.
;)
Haselsh1
25-09-2017, 12:16
I'm as fond of a bacon sarnie as the next man, but I think I could do without if death was the alternative.
Quorn sarnie with BBQ sauce...?
;)
Haselsh1
25-09-2017, 12:19
There may be a reason behind this!
There was a television series filmed in my hometown of Southampton a couple of years back, called Immigration Street, that featured a poor street close to the centre of town, where most of the residents were immigrants and this was to be the focus of the documentary. Six episodes were filmed but only one or two were ever broadcast due to the outcry about it - I watched it and it was quite funny. Why? Simply, because the white English people all came across as lazy, thick, racist layabouts. The Pakistanis, Poles, Indians and other ethnic monorities all came across as decent, hardworking and, largely, pretty intelligent and considerate.
As to the original subject of this topic, I actually have more sympathy with the views of vegans than I do vegetarians, as I can understand their point of view, even though I do not agree with it. Many vegetarians I have encountered strike me as rather hypocritical, when they stroll in wearing their leather shoes and explaining how they don't eat meat becuase of their principles. Except fish of course. And chicken sometimes!
Finally, there is the old joke which has a ring of truth about it - "How do you know if someone is a vegan?" "Don't worry - they'll soon tell you" :D
Yeah, once knew a vegan who took photographs with film. Strictly not allowed.
Spectral Morn
25-09-2017, 12:23
Just Good Friends TV show
'Graham Perry: I'm a vegan.
Vince Pinner: You'd never guess it.
Graham Perry: Do you know what a vegan is, Vince?
Penny Warrender: Of course he knows what a vegan is, don't you, Vince?
Vince Pinner: Absolutely, I never missed an episode of Star Trek'
Quorn sarnie with BBQ sauce...?
;)
soylent green and chips.
I like vegetarians........
but I couldn't eat more than one [emoji23]
walpurgis
25-09-2017, 18:48
For those who like meat.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cannibal-family-admit-killing-eating-11232620
Apparently, it tastes rather like pork....
Marco.
Apparently, it tastes rather like pork....
Marco.
which is more than most pork does :D
walpurgis
25-09-2017, 19:17
Apparently, it tastes rather like pork....
Marco.
I believe in times gone by (hopefully), in the cannibalistic south Pacific islands it was colloquially called 'Long Pig'
Apparently, it tastes rather like pork....
Marco.
Well I can tell you that once it's, ahem let's say cooked, it certainly smells like it [emoji15]🤢
perlogalism
26-09-2017, 07:28
I eat meat and yes I have been to a slaughter house and seen what happens and I am happy to eat meat. Frankly slaughtering animals is less cruel than hunting them down and killing them out in the wild, but only slightly less cruel.
I raise and eat my own meat. Most of it is slaughtered on site and it's as humane as possible - after all,they have no idea about the bolt gun behind my back while they're feeding. Unfortunately, I do have to take the Pigs to the abattoir and that's never a pleasant experience either for them or me.
As to the above comments on hunting, I'd suggest it depends entirely on the method used: Personally, I use a rifle so the quarry has no idea about what's about to happen. That to me is the perfect meat: The animal has led a wild and free life and has had a swift death. It's a rare thing in nature!
Well I can tell you that once it's, ahem let's say cooked, it certainly smells like it [emoji15]��
Lol... Did you accidentally fry your 'wee chipolata'? :D
Marco.
Lol... Did you accidentally fry your 'wee chipolata'? :D
Marco.Lol luckily for me, no [emoji23]
Lol... Did you accidentally fry your 'wee chipolata'? :D
Marco.
Think about it.
I raise and eat my own meat. Most of it is slaughtered on site and it's as humane as possible - after all,they have no idea about the bolt gun behind my back while they're feeding. Unfortunately, I do have to take the Pigs to the abattoir and that's never a pleasant experience either for them or me.
As to the above comments on hunting, I'd suggest it depends entirely on the method used: Personally, I use a rifle so the quarry has no idea about what's about to happen. That to me is the perfect meat: The animal has led a wild and free life and has had a swift death. It's a rare thing in nature!
Good post, Mike. I've hunted myself in the past, and so share the values you've outlined. Unfortunately though, I'd make a crap animal farmer, as I'd become too attached to all the little piggies I'd been looking after, for some time before having to kill them, so simply couldn't do the abattoir thing... Yes, I'd be stoney broke! :doh:
It's totally different killing and then eating, say some pheasants or rabbits, or wild boar, which you've had no 'emotional connection' with.
Marco.
Think about it.
Indeed, and it makes 100% sense. Apparently, we share largely the same organs with pigs and are genetically similar, so I guess it's no great surprise that our flesh will taste somewhat like pork! :eek:
Has anyone watched the film 'Alive', about a plane crash in the Andes, based on a true story? That's a good one, in terms of eating human flesh to survive! ;)
Marco.
Indeed, and it makes 100% sense. Apparently, we share largely the same organs with pigs and are genetically similar, so I guess it's no great surprise that our flesh will taste somewhat like pork! :eek:
Has anyone watched the film 'Alive', about a plane crash in the Andes, based on a true story? That's a good one, in terms of eating human flesh to survive! ;)
Marco.
I liked the book. that paperback was read a lot, but dont have it now. Film was good enough although wasnt as vivid as book.
There is also this celebrated Victorian case where stranded sailors ate the cabin boy and got nicked for it on their return: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Dudley_and_Stephens
I liked the book. that paperback was read a lot, but dont have it now. Film was good enough although wasnt as vivid as book.
Words, when well used, are often more successfully descriptive than pictures. I really enjoyed the film, though.
Marco.
Words, when well used, are often more successfully descriptive than pictures. I really enjoyed the film, though.
Marco.
There is a limit to what is allowed on film too....and barring putting folk in same position its difficult to get that despair I guess, but I would watch it again if it came on
There is also this celebrated Victorian case where stranded sailors ate the cabin boy and got nicked for it on their return: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Dudley_and_Stephens
Let's face it, in such situations, where it's either 'do or die', your survival instincts kick in and you'll simply do whatever is necessary to live. You might baulk at the thought of eating someone, and rightly so, but if you were ever in that unfortunate position, the reality is you'd do the same.
I'd have Granty though, as there's more meat on him! :D
Marco.
Let's face it, in such situations, where it's either 'do or die', your survival instincts kick in and you'll simply do whatever is necessary to live. You might baulk at the thought of eating someone, and rightly so, but if you were ever in that unfortunate position, the reality is you'd do the same.
I'd have Granty though, as there's more meat on him! :D
Marco.
You'd have been dabbed up with the gravy before you come to that conclusion mate;)
Let's face it, in such situations, where it's either 'do or die', your survival instincts kick in and you'll simply do whatever is necessary to live. You might baulk at the thought of eating someone, and rightly so, but if you were ever in that unfortunate position, the reality is you'd do the same.
I'd have Granty though, as there's more meat on him! :D
Marco.
Aye, with a bit of chilli sauce to disguise the taste...you'd be fine.
perlogalism
26-09-2017, 11:21
It's totally different killing and then eating, say some pheasants or rabbits, or wild boar, which you've had no 'emotional connection' with.
Marco.
It certainly is. I took the last batch of Pigs off only a fortnight ago and it gets harder each time.... That being said, I don't see the meat that returns as "my pigs" and thoroughly enjoy the crackling :)
Indeed, but it's the first bit that I personally couldn't do, which is why I'd be a crap animal farmer! I'd probably stick to growing veg ;)
Marco.
I raise and eat my own meat. Most of it is slaughtered on site and it's as humane as possible - after all,they have no idea about the bolt gun behind my back while they're feeding. Unfortunately, I do have to take the Pigs to the abattoir and that's never a pleasant experience either for them or me.
Less pleasant for them though, as you get to go home afterwards.
Farmers have to be pragmatic about it. They like their animals but if they dont farm them, then the animals just wont exist quite frankly in a fairly short period of time. My brother looks after his lambs like babies lol. But in the final analysis they have to go or tbh they would just die nastily. Sheep are possibly the most stupid of animals
perlogalism
27-09-2017, 10:14
Less pleasant for them though, as you get to go home afterwards.
That's the problem with text: I can't tell if that's a simple observation, irony or a dig?
perlogalism
27-09-2017, 10:21
Farmers have to be pragmatic about it. They like their animals but if they dont farm them, then the animals just wont exist quite frankly in a fairly short period of time. My brother looks after his lambs like babies lol. But in the final analysis they have to go or tbh they would just die nastily. Sheep are possibly the most stupid of animals
Exactly right. I wouldn't say that I love my animals but they are certainly lovingly cared for for the duration of their lives. As we don't farm commercially, all the animals get to live longer than they usually would, live in a natural environment and in the case of the pigs, get plenty of treats from the veg garden and orchard. It's sometimes a struggle to keep the sheep from topping themselves before I'm good and ready to do it for them though :rolleyes:
rubber duck
03-10-2017, 20:06
Lewis Hamilton is going vegan (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41416402)
Haselsh1
04-10-2017, 18:19
There is also this celebrated Victorian case where stranded sailors ate the cabin boy and got nicked for it on their return: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Dudley_and_Stephens
Don't tell me, the cabin boys name was Roger.
:eyebrows:
Yeah and he was the lodger too
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