Upgrading my hi fi paranoia

[magiccarpetride]

I just came to the realization that my hi fi paranoia has taken a completely new shape. I've spent many years fretting over my hi fi configuration. Researching various components, their 'synergies', purchasing them, reselling them, playing with interconnects, power cables, power conditioners, speaker cables, speaker positioning, isolation components, room treatments, you name it. Basically, a certifiable hi fi nutter.

However, lately I've started noticing that if the recording I'm playing on my system doesn't sound good to me, I don't jump at tweaking my system. Instead, I jump into searching for a BETTER SOURCE!

If it's a digital playback, I'd look for upgrading my source from the unsatisfactory CD or FLAC, to a better one. For example, I'd look for a hi rez release of the same material. Or, I'd try to get me a Japanese SHM CD (http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/feature/shmcd_allabout) version of the album. I managed to make considerable improvements in my listening pleasure by replacing a number of crappy sounding CDs with their hi rez, or SHM CD equivalents (Stan Getz/Joao Gilberto being one of the most shining examples of the stunning upgrade). Sometimes even finding a different release of the regular CD can improve the sound.

With vinyl, things are much tougher. There are many vinyl LPs that sound less than optimal to me. Rather than chasing after a more expensive turntable, platter, tonearm, cartridge, SUT, phono preamp etc. etc., I'd chase after a different pressing. That could be a daunting task, because often times even if one is lucky to find a better pressing, the condition of the LP could likely be worse than the one I want to replace. So now the race is on to find a good pressing that is also in a good condition. Which means you end up with 10 - 15 versions of the same LPs taking up all that space in your house.

But hey, that's a textbook definition of a nutter hoarding hi fi paranoiac! At least the days of me chasing after expensive hi fi components seem to be over. Good riddance!

[Puffin]

Some Cd's, MP3's, Vinyl sound great, others sound shit. That;s the problem we have as Philes

[Macca]

Aside from a few CDs with too much compression (mainly 'Best Of' compliations) I don't have this problem at all.

Example: I have 'Let It Bleed' on original CD and the painstaking SACD re-master. Yes the re-master sounds a little better, but both it and the original sound good. Good enough that I wouldn't actually care which I listened to.

Not saying there is not a difference between various pressings and masterings, but it isn't as big a difference as say going from a competent phono stage to a really good one. With vinyl, especially, spending more money (in the right way) can really jump things up by a big margin.

[magiccarpetride]

Aside from a few CDs with too much compression (mainly 'Best Of' compliations) I don't have this problem at all.

Example: I have 'Let It Bleed' on original CD and the painstaking SACD re-master. Yes the re-master sounds a little better, but both it and the original sound good. Good enough that I wouldn't actually care which I listened to.

Not saying there is not a difference between various pressings and masterings, but it isn't as big a difference as say going from a competent phono stage to a really good one. With vinyl, especially, spending more money (in the right way) can really jump things up by a big margin.

That makes sense, and of course upgrading your audio chain has the potential to improve things significantly. But my point is that it's a slippery slope. Yes, you can get a better phono stage, and your LPs will sounds better. But then you'll start thinking "wow, if this upgrade improved things so much, can you imagine if I went for that other even fancier phono preamp?" So there is no end to upgraditis.

With different mastering/pressing etc., I found out that once I get my hands on a decent pressing, I'm 100% satisfied. I'm freed from "well, if this pressing is such an improvement, can you imagine if I stumbled upon some pressing that would be even better?" No, once the pressing sounds to my liking, that's the end of the road, and from then onwards I'm left alone to just enjoy the music in peace.

[Macca]

But my point is that it's a slippery slope. Yes, you can get a better phono stage, and your LPs will sounds better. But then you'll start thinking "wow, if this upgrade improved things so much, can you imagine if I went for that other even fancier phono preamp?" So there is no end to upgraditis.

.

Well there is an end because there is a finite limit in what can be achieved both financially and technically ;)

For me I tend to be spurred on by hearing systems that are a lot better than mine. Find it hard to go back. So I have to do something about it. If I'd never heard better I would stick where I was. So the end for me will be when I no longer hear any systems that are better than what I've got. Or the time runs out.

[magiccarpetride]

Well there is an end because there is a finite limit in what can be achieved both financially and technically ;)

For me I tend to be spurred on by hearing systems that are a lot better than mine. Find it hard to go back. So I have to do something about it. If I'd never heard better I would stick where I was. So the end for me will be when I no longer hear any systems that are better than what I've got. Or the time runs out.

I'm in a much more fortunate position, as any system I hear sounds worse than mine. It helps if your friends are more into hobbies such as drinking beer and lounging on the back porch ;)

[Macca]

I don't know if you have meets there like we do here? But some of the systems and individual bits of kit I have heard at them have been fantastically good. Mostly complete DIY or heavily modified equipment though. You re-evaluate.

I mean for example you might think that swapping in a ten grand phono stage from a one grand stage would only give you another 10% or so. But it just ain't true. It is a huge improvement in every respect, and then you realise you can't go back from hearing that; which has consequences.

[magiccarpetride]

I don't know if you have meets there like we do here? But some of the systems and individual bits of kit I have heard at them have been fantastically good. Mostly complete DIY or heavily modified equipment though. You re-evaluate.

I mean for example you might think that swapping in a ten grand phono stage from a one grand stage would only give you another 10% or so. But it just ain't true. It is a huge improvement in every respect, and then you realise you can't go back from hearing that; which has consequences.

Luckily, I don't have a chance to attend such meetups here in the Canadian backwaters. Ignorance is bliss, so I'm enjoying the fact that my system is the best sounding system in my neck of the woods (and I can say with in confidence, after listening to many much pricier systems at the number of local hi fi stores).

Question: how can you tell if the component you've heard make a breathtaking improvement in one system is guaranteed to make the improvement in your system? You get a chance to take it home to audition?

[agk]

I think it's possible to get your kit to a point where you are satisfied and then just relax and enjoy the music without needing or wanting to fanny around. Damn well better be.

Let's face it there's more to life than a group of middle aged and older men sitting around kidding themselves that there's a point to the incessant fiddling with wires beyond justifying their continuing existence.

Get you a comfy chair, sit back and hear the music.

[magiccarpetride]

I think it's possible to get your kit to a point where you are satisfied and then just relax and enjoy the music without needing or wanting to fanny around. Damn well better be.

Let's face it there's more to life than a group of middle aged and older men sitting around kidding themselves that there's a point to the incessant fiddling with wires beyond justifying their continuing existence.

Get you a comfy chair, sit back and hear the music.

Yes. I also believe the same 'good enough' plateau can be reached with regards to choosing your musical instruments. For example, I am a guitar player and after spending years chasing that elusive best guitar, I've now settled on my Les Paul and Fender Strat run of the mill guitars, and am just playing music. I've totally given up the chase after some rare 'Peter Green-like' guitar.

[Macca]

Question: how can you tell if the component you've heard make a breathtaking improvement in one system is guaranteed to make the improvement in your system? You get a chance to take it home to audition?

Sometimes that might be possible. My point is it is easy to feel satisfied with what you have if you have not heard better. Whether you buy the specific components that you liked so much is irrelevant. You have found out that another level is possible, so you start looking again at improving what you have.

[Marco]

My point is it is easy to feel satisfied with what you have if you have not heard better.

Indeed, and which is why, if you really want to own a top-notch system, you need to continually push the boundaries and get out there and hear different set-ups, test your equipment against it and see just how it fares, and also allow others to come and hear your system, and ask them for their honest opinion/constructive criticism.

I can't abide folk who like to 'hide' and remain stuck inside their cosy comfort zones, where nothing that they think they know is ever challenged. No-one should be 'afraid' of exposing their equipment to such scrutiny, and widening their horizons as to what might be possible, if you truly wish to own a great system, instead of kidding yourself on that what you've got is much better than it actually is!

That's why meets, such as NEBO, can be so rewarding and often act as a veritable ear-opener.... My advice? Always keep pushing those boundaries and striving for the best, until you reach the stage of having achieved your goals, which after many years of building and tweaking, is the happy place I'm in now with my system :)

Marco.

[magiccarpetride]

Sometimes that might be possible. My point is it is easy to feel satisfied with what you have if you have not heard better. Whether you buy the specific components that you liked so much is irrelevant. You have found out that another level is possible, so you start looking again at improving what you have.

I understand. I know that another level is always possible, I don't need to actually hear it.

[magiccarpetride]

Indeed, and which is why, if you really want to own a top-notch system, you need to continually push the boundaries and get out there and hear different set-ups, test your equipment against it and see just how it fares, and also allow others to come and hear your system, and ask them for their honest opinion/constructive criticism.

I can't abide folk who like to 'hide' and remain stuck inside their cosy comfort zones. No-one should be 'afraid' of exposing their equipment to such scrutiny, and widening their horizons as to what might be possible, if you truly wish to own a great system, instead of kidding yourself on that what you've got is much better than it actually is!

That's why meets, such as NEBO, can be so rewarding and often act as a veritable ear-opener.... My advice? Always keep pushing those boundaries and striving for the best, until you reach the stage of having achieved your goals, which after many years of building and tweaking, is the happy place I'm in now with my system :)

Marco.

Sounds like you stopped pushing those boundaries. Maybe it's time you start eating your own dog food?

[Marco]

Lol... As they say, why 'fix' what ain't broken? ;)

Of course, anything can always be improved, but there comes a point when the journey has to end [mine has been on-going since 1982 until now, so not exactly a 'quick trip'], and if you got into this game primarily as a music lover, simply seeking to hear your favourite music at its best, not continually dick around with boxes, then when you're in that happy position, it's simply time to kick back and fulfil your system's primary function :)

So for those still on their 'journey', continue striving for the best, but *know* when to stop, before your striving takes over your THRIVING...

Marco.

[Macca]

I understand. I know that another level is always possible, I don't need to actually hear it.

Knowing it in an intellectual sense isn't the same as actually experiencing it, though. Then you get the emotional drive, and there's nothing more effective than that in sparking action.

When you go back to your system, which previously was fine but now sounds broken by comparison it is pretty hard to carry on sitting still. I know your system is already fairly high end so it isn't going to happen as often for you as it has for me. And if you don't get out much (in a hi-fi sense) then it never will.

[agk]

Lol... As they say, why 'fix' what ain't broken? ;)

Of course, anything can always be improved, but there comes a point when the journey has to end [mine has been on-going since 1982 until now, so not exactly a 'quick trip'], and if you got into this game primarily as a music lover, simply seeking to hear your favourite music at its best, not continually dick around with boxes, then when you're in that happy position, it's simply time to kick back and fulfil your system's primary function :)

So for those still on their 'journey', continue striving for the best, but *know* when to stop, before your striving takes over your THRIVING...

Marco.

True. "what a long strange trip it's been".

[magiccarpetride]

Knowing it in an intellectual sense isn't the same as actually experiencing it, though. Then you get the emotional drive, and there's nothing more effective than that in sparking action.

When you go back to your system, which previously was fine but now sounds broken by comparison it is pretty hard to carry on sitting still. I know your system is already fairly high end so it isn't going to happen as often for you as it has for me. And if you don't get out much (in a hi-fi sense) then it never will.

No, I know that. Like I said, ignorance is bliss. I am 'fortunate' to be living in the backwaters, so no exposure to awesome stereo systems for me.

But I am also very curious, so I tend to harass local purveyors of pricey hi fi equipment by bringing along my records and asking for an audition of some of their high end gear. I want to hear something that will make my jaw drop on the floor and say "I wanna!"

So far, no cigar. All the uppity configuration I've listened to didn't reveal anything that I'm not already hearing on my home stereo. Often times, surprisingly, I find that my home stereo sounds better, more coherent, livelier, with more punch and whomp.

Overall, I find that the ultra pricey high end hi fi I've listened to so far tends to sound too polite to my taste. The symphony orchestra crescendos never swell so violently the way I hear them in the concert hall or on my home stereo. The heavy rock drums don't crush bones with as much might as they crush bones and skulls on my home stereo.

Bottom line, I like the sound with a lot of balls, substance, weight, drama and cutting edge presence. I like the sound that's almost impolite, no manners ;)

[magiccarpetride]

Lol... As they say, why 'fix' what ain't broken? ;)

Of course, anything can always be improved, but there comes a point when the journey has to end [mine has been on-going since 1982 until now, so not exactly a 'quick trip'], and if you got into this game primarily as a music lover, simply seeking to hear your favourite music at its best, not continually dick around with boxes, then when you're in that happy position, it's simply time to kick back and fulfil your system's primary function :)

So for those still on their 'journey', continue striving for the best, but *know* when to stop, before your striving takes over your THRIVING...

Marco.

Yes, and that was exactly the point of my original post. Once you reach that plateau, then the race for the best mastering/pressing commences!

[paulf-2007]

Firstly let me say, expensive kit doesn't always give the best playback.
I can honestly say I've not heard any kit sound better than my own and I've heard some very exotic, expensive well regarded kit at people's houses and several years at Scalford. Commercial shows have left me cold. There was a period on wigwam when several people, me included, were DIYing front horn set ups, I didn't hear them all but those I did I liked. My mate Jim has oris horns with lowthers and they are very very good. Since I got my Zu's I've been the most settled for many years but then they work much like single driver speakers with a tweeter helper but the bass is way better.
As I've said before I like single driver speakers but couldn't live long term with their limitations.

[Joe]

When you go back to your system, which previously was fine but now sounds broken by comparison it is pretty hard to carry on sitting still.

I wouldn't bet on it. I've had years of practice.

[magiccarpetride]

I wouldn't bet on it. I've had years of practice.

Me too. It comes from spending too many years living in the State of De Nile.

[Joe]

Me too. It comes from spending too many years living in the State of De Nile.

In my case it comes from being, in my mother's phrase, 'born tired', or, putting it less diplomatically, being a lazy-arsed wastrel.