ebay rules on contact info

[Mr.Ian]

I've just had an email from ebay emphasising their latest rules, basically it seems to be saying if you release any contact information including address details you will incur final sale fees and may get a suspension!

I don't sell much on ebay but anyone thinking about listing high value items best take note as it appears the option to let people view before bidding has gone!

[struth]

They are just burying themselves and helping make it a scammers paradise. I rarely use them now and never sell. Rather sell it for a lot less elsewhere, or give it away.

[Haselsh1]

They are just burying themselves and helping make it a scammers paradise. I rarely use them now and never sell. Rather sell it for a lot less elsewhere, or give it away.

:thumbsup:

[Oddball]

Sometimes the greedy just get greedier

[Spectral Morn]

I've just had an email from ebay emphasising their latest rules, basically it seems to be saying if you release any contact information including address details you will incur final sale fees and may get a suspension!

I don't sell much on ebay but anyone thinking about listing high value items best take note as it appears the option to let people view before bidding has gone!

Its simple to avoid sales outside EBay, only contact through their system so it is watched by their automated system. It can be got round but I think it unethical to do so. If you use someones system to have a market place and then knowingly avoid or circumvent the fee for doing so... well I think that's naughty. If you use EBay obey their rules, if you don't want to go elsewhere.

[montesquieu]

They actually don't want their traditional hobyist seller base any more, they see their rival as Amazon, standardised inventory being sold along industrial lines.

[Spectral Morn]

My biggest gripe is folks terminating an auction early if it sells elsewhere, fair enough its got no bids on it, but once there are bids I feel it should be locked and must go through to completion.

[willbewill]

Its simple to avoid sales outside EBay, only contact through their system so it is watched by their automated system. It can be got round but I think it unethical to do so. If you use someones system to have a market place and then knowingly avoid or circumvent the fee for doing so... well I think that's naughty. If you use EBay obey their rules, if you don't want to go elsewhere.

Agree - I know how much it annoys me when I bid on an item to only find a bit later it has been withdrawn from sale because, I assume, somebody has contacted the seller to offer a purchase outside of ebay...it has happened quite a lot lately.

But - I can also understand that on high value items a purchaser might want to view before committing themselves, you can always view beforehand at normal auction houses.

[Oddball]

They actually don't want their traditional hobyist seller base any more, they see their rival as Amazon, standardised inventory being sold along industrial lines.

I think that might be right . I was talking to a trade friend last week , who had an E Bay shop.
They were selling a garden product and he was telling me how they had grown very quickly ( with reasonably small value items but a few hundred a day) to be running quite a good buisness. His bro in law realised that Amazon had tracked their success and had seen where they purchased the items (Scotland ) went into that supplier and undercut them ,leading to the supplier not wanting to sell to him any more .
They then went about selling the product themselves
Effectively took the trade , lock stock and barrell

[struth]

If they didnt rip sellers off at every opportunity they wouldnt have a problem. they charge too much and side with buyers no matter what thus screwing up what was a nice way of buying and selling for all bar the massives volume sellers..

[Minstrel SE]

I dont always defend ebay but its an understandable rule to protect their business.

I use ebay in a way that I would never use Amazon because I like to contact sellers about collectables. The messaging system is very good but obviously I dont start or accept private deals because I value remaining on ebay. I also like to keep it paypal and other deals are not as easy or convenient.....ebay should rightly charge for this level of convenience. I would never have seen these sellers if not for ebay so I am loyal to ebay for that reason and others

Ebay benefit from large and small volume sellers and Ive been looking at LED VU display meters and kits from Hong Kong and Lithuania. Its just as good as anything Amazon offer in my opinion

I dont want to turn this into a bashing but Ive a thing about Amazon warehouses and staff conditions. I like to deal with sellers direct. My parents like Amazon because they like clicking and buying. I like ebay for the collectors community and direct questions

[Lawrence001]

You can't use paypal for collection only items due to fraud risk, therefore if you tell them your phone number and address to arrange collection, what happens if they turn up and decide they don't like it, but eBay assume you've done the deal and take their fees?

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[agk]

If they didnt rip sellers off at every opportunity they wouldnt have a problem. they charge too much and side with buyers no matter what thus screwing up what was a nice way of buying and selling for all bar the massives volume sellers..

Amen.

[Minstrel SE]

You can't use paypal for collection only items due to fraud risk, therefore if you tell them your phone number and address to arrange collection, what happens if they turn up and decide they don't like it, but eBay assume you've done the deal and take their fees?

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Yes thats an issue and I always take cash if people are collecting. If the transaction doesnt go through I would have to cancel the transaction and probably back that up with a relisting. I agree that would be awkward but ebay have had plenty of leeway and they have seen no problems on my account . They are not ogres if you are straight up with them...they understand transactions falter and they must deal with countless issues per day

What they are trying to stop is blatant offers of dealing away from the site. Its is a two fingers to ebay to use the messaging system to set up private deals. Obviously they cant stop me knowing who the seller is as I have been sent business cards with the mail.

Most sellers I deal with are private individuals with some bits and bobs to sell. We dont mind the fees because its very handy to browse a large central site. Do I really mind 10% on a tenner? Ok there are also paypal fees but paypal are not running a charity. They instantly convert currencies and protect my financial details from sellers. They also offer some level of buyer protection...what price would you put on that?

Other sites have a different feel (maybe a car boot type feel) but I dint find the collectables I am looking for on those sites.

If you mind the 10% on higher value items then you shouldnt be selling there really...it is that simple

With just a few items a car boot sale is not cost effective and I can get worldwide coverage with my ebay listing.

There is a tendency for people to think it should all be free. Selling stuff is not easy and many shops have closed down because of the increased business rates

[tapid]

Good points well made Martin. Some folks, as in life just shape everything to how it affects them and there pockets. Ebay is clearly not perfect but abide by the rules
or don't bother to use it, simple as.

[Beobloke]

As above, I don't really have a problem with the rule. What I do have a problem with is rules like this not being enforced.

I have a particular item on my eBay alert list and one in the USA crops up fairly regularly as a three day auction. However, it states in the description that all auction bids will be cancelled and that you can only Buy It Now from this seller by contacting him outside of eBay. I have reported this auction four times in the last fortnight but it keeps coming back, so I though I'd look at the seller's other items, in case it was a dodgy auction. It turns out he has over 60 items for sale, all with the exact same format and instructions, and a feedback rating of over 20,000. As a result, it doesn't appear to matter whether his account has been hacked, or if he's actually getting away with this - either way, eBay are clearly doing nothing about it! :steam:

[jandl100]

The email I got says, in part ....

Offers to buy and sell or communicate outside of eBay constitute policy violations and may be subject to a range of actions including limits on buying and selling privileges as well as the application of final value fees for such transactions, the application of fees for the introduction of a seller to a buyer and the recovery of expenses for policy monitoring and enforcement.

So they can add on whatever fee value they feel like in terms of an "introduction fee" and for covering their expenses in enforcing the new policy.
Basically they can just help themselves to your funds.

[struth]

The email I got says, in part ....

Offers to buy and sell or communicate outside of eBay constitute policy violations and may be subject to a range of actions including limits on buying and selling privileges as well as the application of final value fees for such transactions, the application of fees for the introduction of a seller to a buyer and the recovery of expenses for policy monitoring and enforcement.

So they can add on whatever fee value the feel like in terms of an "introduction fee" and for covering their expenses in enforcing the new policy.
Basically they can just help themselves to your funds.

As I say I dont sell but I got that too and thought it licenced theft tbh. I am considering cancelling my account tbh and Ive been with ebay damn near since they started

[jandl100]

I have a bank account dedicated to eBay - I always thought I didn't want the b*****s to have access to my main account.
I have just now largely emptied that account.
I certainly don't trust them.

[Spectral Morn]

The email I got says, in part ....

Offers to buy and sell or communicate outside of eBay constitute policy violations and may be subject to a range of actions including limits on buying and selling privileges as well as the application of final value fees for such transactions, the application of fees for the introduction of a seller to a buyer and the recovery of expenses for policy monitoring and enforcement.

So they can add on whatever fee value they feel like in terms of an "introduction fee" and for covering their expenses in enforcing the new policy.
Basically they can just help themselves to your funds.

Sorry but break the rules and there should be a punishment, that reads fine to me, and all that is claiming what was theirs but avoided.

If folks don't like the rules then don't use EBay.

[jandl100]

Sorry but break the rules and there should be a punishment.

I agree, to an extent.

But they have given themselves carte blanche.
They don't seem to have specified the fees, and they have given themselves the power of prosecutor, judge and jury.

I've had a run-in with them before over fees - the eBay guy on the phone agreed I should have a refund but it never appeared.
So, no, I don't trust them to be fair or to keep their word.

[montesquieu]

I agree, to an extent.

But they have given themselves carte blanche.
They don't seem to have specified the fees, and they have given themselves the power of prosecutor, judge and jury.

I've had a run-in with them before over fees - the eBay guy on the phone agreed I should have a refund but it never appeared.
So, no, I don't trust them to be fair or to keep their word.


Agree with Jerry. Increasingly ordinary people aren't using it to sell stuff, precisely because it behaves like the faceless, disgustingly arrogant megacorp that it now is. So the 'if you don't like it then piss off' message is getting through loud and clear.

But it's perfectly fine to be really pissed off at them in return for abusing their position. The founder of the discipline of economics, Adam Smith (another famous Scotsman) wrote in The Wealth of Nations back in 1776 about how capitalism tends to monopoly, and this was a bad thing - one of the main roles for governments is regulate the market against this sort of thing, but this is hard in the globalised situation we are in today.

The best thing that could happen is for a proper rival to emerge - unlikely though at this stage though you never know there are a few companies who could pull it off - Amazon and Google to name but two.

[Beobloke]

I have a bank account dedicated to eBay - I always thought I didn't want the b*****s to have access to my main account.
I have just now largely emptied that account.
I certainly don't trust them.

I also have a dedicated eBay/Paypal bank account - it has no overdraft facility and it never has more than £10 in it!

[Spectral Morn]

I agree, to an extent.

But they have given themselves carte blanche.
They don't seem to have specified the fees, and they have given themselves the power of prosecutor, judge and jury.

I've had a run-in with them before over fees - the eBay guy on the phone agreed I should have a refund but it never appeared.
So, no, I don't trust them to be fair or to keep their word.

Fair enough, so far I haven't had a problem with them. Recently they sorted a fraudulent listing for a Blu Ray disc that didn't appear. They decided for me in 12 mins and refunded my money, in fairness there were many other issues regarding the same seller that began to appear after I bought from them.

[Minstrel SE]

I mainly use it as a buyer and I keep my wits about me. I dont have much to sell now and I realised that staying up all night to pack things superbly just isnt cost effective in most cases.

I have to say that the sort of person that thinks nothing of sending a prized amplifier half way around the world is going to experience real problems sooner or later. Thats the nature of distance selling when you lose the ability to weigh up every factor. I dont do any transactions that would really hurt if they went wrong. As a buyer Im pretty much covered if items dont arrive or are not as described. An opened case with photos and the decision has always gone in my favour.

Come on they are not the only mega corporation that can seem a bit cold. Im not naive enough to expect that they have a team of dedicated professionals just looking after me.

I buy from people with good feedback and I know the large volume sellers that are unlikely to offer a reasonable service.

ebay rules are fine with me and Ive done very well using them

[montesquieu]

I mainly use it as a buyer and I keep my wits about me. I dont have much to sell now and I realised that staying up all night to pack things superbly just isnt cost effective in most cases.

I have to say that the sort of person that thinks nothing of sending a prized amplifier half way around the world is going to experience real problems sooner or later. Thats the nature of distance selling when you lose the ability to weigh up every factor. I dont do any transactions that would really hurt if they went wrong. As a buyer Im pretty much covered if items dont arrive or are not as described. An opened case with photos and the decision has always gone in my favour.

Come on they are not the only mega corporation that can seem a bit cold. Im not naive enough to expect that they have a team of dedicated professionals just looking after me.

I buy from people with good feedback and I know the large volume sellers that are unlikely to offer a reasonable service.

ebay rules are fine with me and Ive done very well using them

Buying is still sensible. It's as a marketplace for sellers that all the grumbles are about.


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[Ninanina]

I used to be able to give my email address out in an eBay message by spelling it out in full ie. (email address deleted by Geoff) but eBay now picks that up and doesn't allow the message to be sent so what I do now is advertise the same item on Gumtree and then respond saying same.. that gets round the eBay rules... at the moment ;)


~~ Best not to show personal details on open forum Bev. Geoff ~~

[killie99]

if you have a business account you MUST supply an email address and telephone number in the contacts area - I think that's a requirement of law, so it will be interesting to see if they tell sellers they need to remove that information

[Ammonite Audio]

Am I the only person who does not have a huge problem with this? eBay are entitled to clamp down on people who use it as cheap advertising for sales concluded elsewhere. Despite its faults, which I don't deny, eBay often provides the best international platform through which to get the best price for something. Gumtree and forum sales (if we are talking about audio) won't do that. A well presented eBay listing will allow an item for sale to find its true price.

[jandl100]

Am I the only person who does not have a huge problem with this? eBay are entitled to clamp down on people who use it as cheap advertising for sales concluded elsewhere. Despite its faults, which I don't deny, eBay often provides the best international platform through which to get the best price for something. Gumtree and forum sales (if we are talking about audio) won't do that. A well presented eBay listing will allow an item for sale to find its true price.

I agree overall and in principle.

But .... as previously mentioned and in many other cases, eBay are often arbitrary and unfair in the way they adjudicate problem issues.
And no, that is not alright. You have to be on the receiving end of the (often costly) grief to fully appreciate that. And with the new rules they have given themselves even greater power.

[Ammonite Audio]

But what you consider to be arbitrary and unfair actions by eBay on sellers are on the other hand immensely reassuring for buyers. That's why eBay will continue to be the world's biggest and most successful online marketplace. There will always be the odd buyer who takes the p$ss and deliberately scams a seller, but good sellers can help themselves by listing correctly, by always following eBay procedures, and by providing good service. Do it by eBay's rules and eBay will try to do the right thing - that's my experience.

[Minstrel SE]

if you have a business account you MUST supply an email address and telephone number in the contacts area - I think that's a requirement of law, so it will be interesting to see if they tell sellers they need to remove that information

Thats a very good point and I was looking at that the other day wondering about all the small business sellers giving a home address.

The point is that ebay can not stop me knowing who they are after one transaction. They are simply clamping down on the blatant messages saying contact the seller directly for a better deal. The people that end auctions early should also face some penalty but thats difficult to enforce as they will just say the kids broke it or something.

At the moment is seems legit to say its listed elsewhere which isnt right really

I dont need to deal off ebay. Its up to the seller to list the price they want with the ebay and paypal fees covered...wheres the problem?

[Lawrence001]

I think this is wrong, it seems if they decide that I'm lying when I say the bloke off eBay who came round didn't want my £1000 speakers, but then the guy off gumtree who came round later did so I can't relist them, then they will take £100 plus costs off me and possibly hit me with selling restrictions or close my account, how can that be fair? So basically, if you list them in 2 places and a guy off ebay shows some interest, but you sell elsewhere you can expect eBay to charge you the fees anyway, great. Possibly not legal either.

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[Minstrel SE]

Well you are all picking on an unusual scenario. When and for what reason did people not want the item? I agree that would be awkward but I dont really list things like speakers where people might not warm to the demonstration.

Ebay do have some leeway and I cant see them nobbling you if you have run a good account with them.

I would probably list £1000 speakers on this forum for a private sale to an enthusiast. I wouldnt risk a third party if £100 fees could be involved. That is a risk where some subjectivity is involved

Its not really what ebay is safe for so maybe people have got the wrong idea of where to primarily list them. I suppose we have to factor in that any sale can fall through. Ive had a couple of nutters here. One was mildly aggressive, kept picking up our items and offering to buy for an insulting amount of cash. One was intimidating and had us hunting around our own house for change..... my partner says if it happens again she is off.

[Neil McCauley]

Its simple to avoid sales outside EBay, only contact through their system so it is watched by their automated system. It can be got round but I think it unethical to do so. If you use someones system to have a market place and then knowingly avoid or circumvent the fee for doing so... well I think that's naughty. If you use EBay obey their rules, if you don't want to go elsewhere.

I agree.

[Neil McCauley]

Am I the only person who does not have a huge problem with this? eBay are entitled to clamp down on people who use it as cheap advertising for sales concluded elsewhere. Despite its faults, which I don't deny, eBay often provides the best international platform through which to get the best price for something. Gumtree and forum sales (if we are talking about audio) won't do that. A well presented eBay listing will allow an item for sale to find its true price.

+1