what old amp to consider?

[smurfbrain]

Do you guys have any recommendation regarding old amplifiers from marantz,luxman, pioneer etc. Which ones to go for and which ones to avoid.
Will be looking for something with warm,rich,clear sq?

[The Grand Wazoo]

Hi Martin.
How much lolly are you planning to put into this?
You say old - do you mean old or really old? (!!)

[smurfbrain]

My fault:o Would be looking for something up to £300 mark. It has to be servicable so i presume solid state 1970s,80s would be a good choice.

[Macca]

Are you going to use it for those B&Ws? or for some other 'speakers?

[smurfbrain]

At moment thats my intention. I would like to go valve way but due to money constraints I dont think this will happen this year.

[Ali Tait]

Which speakers do you have?

[smurfbrain]

b&w cdm7se 150w 8ohm

[Ali Tait]

Ah just seen your other post.I'm guessing about 90dB/w/m? I used to have a pair of P5's,which I ran with an original wooden-sleeve Sugden A21.A lovely class A amp which will give more than a taste of the valve sound.Dunno what they go for nowadays,but I picked a minter up a few years ago for £100.Would still be using it if I hadn't got into valves. Battleship build too.

[Macca]

The usual suspects tend to get reeled off with these 'old integrated' questions so I'll list 'em now to save the bother:

A&R Cambridge A60, Sugden A21a, Audiolab 800a, a couple of oddball others I can't recall right now. It's finding a good one for sensible cash is the problem there nowadays.

You could also look for a Denon PMA450 UK from the early 90s. Powerful but clean sounding amp.

Alternatively if you can bypass the pre-amp on your existing amp you could get a taste of valves with the Croft Micro pre for near that money.

[DSJR]

Many Jap amps from this era really weren't very good and were laden with all sorts of non THD style distortions ignored by the ignorant masses (low THD was king back then).

The Luxman amps were ok though with a rich and creamy colouration reminiscent of old fashioned valve amps.

There was an A&R "200" power amp on fleabay which would respond well to a modern preamp and sources. Thie designer co-founded Myryad in the 90's and the MI-120 was a very clear but civilised amp, well made, well protected and with a fine phono-stage option.

I have to give a shout for the Quad 77 integrated too. Unloved because of its "different-ness," it sounds sweet and expansive with no harshness or "clutter" whatsoever...

I dare not say more on the 1970's jap amps, because so many were awful and you would find one good one amongst the dross in the rest of the range.

Some Sugdens are ok, the others rather soft toned. From the 70's, the A48 II and III was a workmanlike amp but had some oddities too.

Things have moved on with both valve and transistor designs since the 1970's. You'll have to look on Vintage Knob and similar to see of you can find the goodies like the Sony TA-5650 and 8650 V-Fet designs, which sadly didn't seem to sell hugely in the UK, despite their undoubted abilities with LP and line sources..

[smurfbrain]

Thanks everyone for the input.:)

[Ali Tait]

The usual suspects tend to get reeled off with these 'old integrated' questions so I'll list 'em now to save the bother:

A&R Cambridge A60, Sugden A21a, Audiolab 800a, a couple of oddball others I can't recall right now. It's finding a good one for sensible cash is the problem there nowadays.

You could also look for a Denon PMA450 UK from the early 90s. Powerful but clean sounding amp.

Alternatively if you can bypass the pre-amp on your existing amp you could get a taste of valves with the Croft Micro pre for near that money.

Think you'd struggle to get an A21a for £300? The A21 is cheaper,and uses the same circuit,just less output power.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I'd lean towards the Luxmans if you can find a good un for that price.
Some of the better Sansui's were fairly warm if that's what you like - well built too

[Dave Hewitt]

Hi
As pointed out before the Sony vfet amps may give you a valve like sound.I have a Sony taf7 vfet,also a Yamaha ca 1000 and a Pioneer sa9500 all probably Jap 70's amps.Of the three I think the Sony is easy listening with a good phono stage built in,the Pioneer is just a good solid state amp with reasonable phono stage built in and the Yamaha used in my system sounds very dynamic and is also switchable from about 70 watts ab to 20 watts class a.If you live NW England you are wellcome to a demo.
Regards Dave.

[DSJR]

I had a CA1000mk2 given to me (I had sold it to the client originally) and by modern standards it sounded very bland indeed. Even the Class A option (allowing a few minutes to settle into this) and using "Tone Jump" didn't help.

The 5650 Sony has bags of musicality, detail and atmosphere, a slightly "floppy" bass quality being the tradeoff. Even this latter isn't severe IMO. I used one at home in the mid seventies for quite a while and loved it. My mastering-friend still has his and all he had wrong with it was noisy controls after 15 years or so.. it sounds great with CD and can easily reproduce source upgrades - love it!!!!! They were fetching well under £100, but as fleabay has gone mad in recent times, things may be rather more expensive...

[hifi_dave]

I had a CA1000mk2 given to me (I had sold it to the client originally) and by modern standards it sounded very bland indeed. Even the Class A option (allowing a few minutes to settle into this) and using "Tone Jump" didn't help.

The 5650 Sony has bags of musicality, detail and atmosphere, a slightly "floppy" bass quality being the tradeoff. Even this latter isn't severe IMO. I used one at home in the mid seventies for quite a while and loved it. My mastering-friend still has his and all he had wrong with it was noisy controls after 15 years or so.. it sounds great with CD and can easily reproduce source upgrades - love it!!!!! They were fetching well under £100, but as fleabay has gone mad in recent times, things may be rather more expensive...

Because of forums such as this, the prices of almost anything 'vintage' have gone through the roof, so you will struggle to get anything decent for £300, unless you strike lucky. I am on E-Bay every night, trawling through the various sections for goodies but am constantly being surprised at the high prices they go for and have been pipped to the post very often when my 'high' bid has been comprehensively beaten....:doh:

There are very few bargains anymore.IMO

[Dave Hewitt]

Hi Dave
The ca 1000 of mine was like that but,was found to have no bias current at all,once properly set to service spec it was a different amp.[well it wasnt really ,it was the same amp but sounded far better]
Dave.

[spendorman]

Quad 303 power amp properly serviced can still sound pretty good. Good value too, can be had for around £100. Very reliable as well.

[Jonboy]

Quad 303 power amp properly serviced can still sound pretty good. Good value too, can be had for around £100. Very reliable as well.


Same as that
Very good at the money with a matching 33 pre amp once they have both been serviced, they have din plugs so you need converters or purpose made cables, they don't sound as bad as the press make out:)

£100 is a bit optomistic though

[spendorman]

Same as that
Very good at the money with a matching 33 pre amp once they have both been serviced, they have din plugs so you need converters or purpose made cables, they don't sound as bad as the press make out:)

£100 is a bit optomistic though

Not very, there is a 303 on ebay now for £129, "buy it now". I recently got a working one for £85 and another that only needed output caps for £55.

[smurfbrain]

Thanks Dave for the offer but you are a bit to far from me.
I will make a shortlist and look out for those suggested amps. I could probably stretch my budget if know that amp was recently serviced. Unfortunately with fleebay you might get a good one or a complete dud. Price wise everything went up over last couple years.
I think I can arrange home demo with recently serviced quad33 and 303 which belong to friend of mine. Thats if he hasnt sold them yet.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Ebay's not the only source of 2nd hand hi-fi folks!
There are some places where you can buy stuff with a guarantee.

[Jonboy]

Not very, there is a 303 on ebay now for £129, "buy it now". I recently got a working one for £85 and another that only needed output caps for £55.

I'm not an avid 303 follower and was going buy the stuff i last looked at like some time ago which were selling at around £300 a set


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/quad-303-power-amp-recently-serviced_W0QQitemZ280413091252QQcmdZViewItemQQptZU K_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers?hash =item4149ec35b4

so perhaps their are still bargains to be had

[spendorman]

I'm not an avid 303 follower and was going buy the stuff i last looked at like some time ago which were selling at around £300 a set


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/quad-303-power-amp-recently-serviced_W0QQitemZ280413091252QQcmdZViewItemQQptZU K_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers?hash =item4149ec35b4

so perhaps their are still bargains to be had

When I got my first 303 (many years ago and second hand, could have been early 70's) it was in nice condition, but I was not impressed with the sound. It sat unused for some time. I decided to service it and was surprised how good it sounded. I still have that amp (completely original even the PS and output caps are OK).

I have three other 303s (all newer) that have needed some caps replacing. They all work and sound very good.

[Jonboy]

i bought mine from the original owner but the main caps were leaking so they were replaced along with the volume control on the pre, did you find a source for the original caps at the right size and shape we had problems from what i can remember.

[spendorman]

i bought mine from the original owner but the main caps were leaking so they were replaced along with the volume control on the pre, did you find a source for the original caps at the right size and shape we had problems from what i can remember.

I just use what I can get, talking about the 2000uf (2200uF in later production) for PS and output of the 303. Modern caps are generally smaller, so either use smaller clips or plastic packing in the original clips.

Increasing the output cap size (uF) can help the bass with some speakers. I have used 4700uF in one 303, 10,000 uF in another.

[tubehunter]

check out the kel84 on hifi wigwam
£340 gets you the real deal

[Ali Tait]

Seconded.The KEL is a superb amp and a real giant killer.Grab it!

[DSJR]

When I got my first 303 (many years ago and second hand, could have been early 70's) it was in nice condition, but I was not impressed with the sound. It sat unused for some time. I decided to service it and was surprised how good it sounded. I still have that amp (completely original even the PS and output caps are OK).

I have three other 303s (all newer) that have needed some caps replacing. They all work and sound very good.

Wanna sell one?

[Macca]

'2ndhandhifi.co.uk' were advertising a boxed 33/303 combo for £249 just the other day.

Sorry I can't post a link that is too advanced for me:)

You'd still need a passive pot for the pre or something as I personally wouldn't use the 33 pre 'as is' plus you can't put a CD player through it for some bizarre technical reason.

Prices in dealers seem more realistic than on ebay these days and less hassle to buy from them as well. I'm just not certain a 303 is a good match for those speakers but you never really know until you try...

[smurfbrain]

Kel84 seems to be nice amp. It has nice reviews. I dont know if it would be able to drive my b&w. Unfortunately the guy, who is selling it, is 200 miles away from me so its a no no to pick it up.

[Ali Tait]

It really would be worth it if you can get it Martin.I think it would drive your speakers just fine.I don't think there's anything commercial to touch it at anywhere near the price.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

theres one on ebay too if thats any help (it might be the same one?)

[smurfbrain]

Its not there anymore:steam:. Back to square one. I dont mind being paitient to get the right one.
Anyway i found something above the set budget, a Luxman M 120A for £400 from the dealer with 6 months warranty. I can use my existing amp as a pre to this power amp. Would this improve things?Has anyone know this model. Do you think its any good?

[Haselsh1]

My classic of choice from the late 80's and early 90's would be a Musical Fidlelity A-100 integrated amplifier. 55Wpc and heavily biased into class A. It does have cooling fans though and they do make a little noise. This was one of the best amplifiers I ever owned and lasted until I got my WAD 300B PP with WAD KLP1.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Ahem, did you get my PM Martin - Sean may be onto something!

[smurfbrain]

Thanks Chris. Tbh didnt expect anyone to pm me.I noticed your message 2 hrs ago.
Had a look and i am doing some research at mo. I am trying to locate amp within an hour drive from me so i can listen to it. Dont want to buy something that i will regret later. I will contact the shop tommorow to have a chat.

[DSJR]

My classic of choice from the late 80's and early 90's would be a Musical Fidlelity A-100 integrated amplifier. 55Wpc and heavily biased into class A. It does have cooling fans though and they do make a little noise. This was one of the best amplifiers I ever owned and lasted until I got my WAD 300B PP with WAD KLP1.

I'm not sure I could ever recommend MF A1 or A100, as they weren't quite the ticket in terms of construction (or performance in the case of some A1's IMO). The A100 fan tended to blow the air every way except to the devices that needed it. At least B&O used a whisper quiet fan blowing through a proper duct on their 6500 and 7000 system Beomasters - a joy to see inside and not at all bad sounding either I must admit...

[smurfbrain]

If anyone would like brand new sony vfet amp this has come today on ebay from US
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NOS-NIB-SONY-TAN-5550-V-FET-StereO-Amplifier-Amp-Sealed_W0QQitemZ110492924600QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b9e43ab8