Ace Space Tonearm Setup... How?

[Simon_LDT]

Been messing about all day with this arm and can't seem to get it set right. I've attached my Linn Adikt cart to the headshell and placed it as far forward as it will go. If I then move the arm mount pod on my Ace Spacedeck to make the pivot > Spindle 210mm, I can't then seem to get enough overhang for a Baerwald alignment. I've currently got the pivot > Spindle at around 207mm, which is getting me in the ballpark but I just cannot get the stylus to follow the protractor and be accurate in all spots. It's near but out by a fraction in places. I've had the platter off/on so many times moving the arm pod around.

Any help/tips would be greatly appreciated because I'm going crazy here. :brickwall:

What arc protractors are NA users using for alignment?

[karma67]

seems you are not alone.
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9133&start=15

[hifi_dave]

I use the Notts and Rega protractors. Never had a cartridge from Decca to Koetsu which didn't line up.

[Simon_LDT]

Dave, which Rega alignment do you use? I've got the NA one supplied with the TT so I've set it to that for now, although I've no idea what alignment it is as it doesn't say. I also would prefer to use an arc with 2 null points to make sure I have pin point alignment, the NA one only has 1 box to line up so I assume it's a simple tool to get you in the ballpark.

Is it true that the headshell will twist for azimuth or is that peeps reaching a bit? Dare not try it myself right now.

[hifi_dave]

I use the Notts or Rega. They've been good enough for me and my customers for decades but then I don't lose sleep over these things.

Yes, the headshell does twist.

[Simon_Nottingham]

Hi Simon,

I have a Space Deck with the same arm. My Grado cart is mounted very far forward.

Did you realise that you can swing the island that the arm is mounted on out move the arm further away? NA fitted my arm and cart and moved it quite a bit I think.

I'd suggest giving NA a call (01773 762947). You're not that far from them (only an hour) and I'm sure they'd be happy to help out for not much cash.

Any yes, the headshell does twist apparently, but I've never tried it!

[Haselsh1]

I use the Notts and Rega protractors. Never had a cartridge from Decca to Koetsu which didn't line up.

Yep, Nottingham Analogue protractor.

[Simon_LDT]

Hi Simon,

I have a Space Deck with the same arm. My Grado cart is mounted very far forward.

Did you realise that you can swing the island that the arm is mounted on out move the arm further away? NA fitted my arm and cart and moved it quite a bit I think.

I'd suggest giving NA a call (01773 762947). You're not that far from them (only an hour) and I'm sure they'd be happy to help out for not much cash.

Any yes, the headshell does twist apparently, but I've never tried it!

Yep, that is what I've been doing. The problem I see with shorter arms (such as the 9'' Space) is that by moving the arm pod further away means less chance of hitting the correct overhang. I've got the pod all the way in, as close to the platter it will go and that gives me 207mm Spindle to pivot distance. With my cart as far forward as possible in the headshell slots, I've been able to use a Conrad Hoffman arc protractor set using 207mm spindle to pivot and aligned to Lofgren A. I tried 206mm first but was slightly too short so 207 seems the actual distance, otherwise the arc wouldn't align.

I checked also with the NA grid and it aligns there too, so I can only assume that is Lofgren A too - or I've effed up somewhere, haha.

One thing I'm not sure on - Anti-skate. What is generally used for a guideline? I also noticed that while setting VTF, I was getting mixed results across the playing surface - which I think has something to do wit Anti-S, that normal? In the past, using a Rega rb300 I had anti-skate set to around 1-1.25 and VTF checked near the platter edge being 1.9g and near the spindle, the same or extremely close. With the Space arm, I've been setting to 1.9g but then seeing nearer to 1.8g at the other end. If I alter the anti-skate weight, it changes each time (which I think makes sense as it's adding weight/pull as the arm moves). I've found a setting which gives me near 1.87-1.9g across the whole plaing area, with the weight being approx 2/3 along.

Thoughts?

[Simon_Nottingham]

One thing I'm not sure on - Anti-skate.
Thoughts?

Tom Fletcher always set anti skate by ear. I tend to do it so that the stylus tracks correctly on the dead space at the end of the record and adjust from there. I've never measured it.

[Simon_LDT]

Figured the problem with the VTF. Some funky stuff going on here. I usually set the force and then check it at the outer area of the platter and then the inner area and I check it 2-3 times before being happy that it's accurate enough.

When setting up the Ace Space arm, I'm finding that setting the weight around 1.9g (my ideal) at first shows correct but as I then move the arm and check for a 2nd time, it drops to around 1.75g, after that it seems to become consistent with that reading. So, I've basically had to set the VTF around 15g heavier than I'd like, give it a minute and then it's showing around 1.9g consistently each time I check.

Never had this before with the Rega arm, it set immediately and never drifted.

Is this just something to do with the way the arm is/works? (or being a unipivot) It seems to be it needs a little time to settle once you've faffed with moving the weight at the rear.

[Simon_LDT]

Still having issues with VTF, seems to be all over the place and not staying where I've set it at. Anti-skate I've no clue because there is no way the arm will sit in a blank space. Even if set to the max, it veers towards the centre label. I do notice a difference at lower levels as the pull inwards is much greater and at a faster pace. Currently set to around 5mm from the max.

Sounding OK though, although have my doubts due to not being 100% happy as of yet. Happy with the alignment though so that's something.

Hardly any info online about these arms, seem to keep seeing and reading the same 5-10 threads when searching google.

[Sand Dancin Donkey Walker]

Hi Simon
See you still having some issues with the setup of your Ace Space.
Have noted a link below which may help, or have you seen it before.
I have used an Ace Space previously and found it fairly easy to setup ok.
A very capable tonearm, the only issues I had were a too heavy cartridge, as a solution so I could have the counter weight closer to the pivot point.
I added some Blue Tak inside the weight, this allowed the weight to be closer to the pivot and reduced the inertia caused by the weigh being out a distance from the pivot.
As for the Bias adjustment I had mine set to near it's minimum setting and found that gave best result for me.

http://www.edsstuff.org/docs/nottingham/nottingham_manual_faq.pdf

Hope the above helps.

Andy

[Simon_LDT]

Thanks for the info Andy. I have got the NA manual and while it has some good info I find it quite lacking in real in-depth set-up in certain areas (mainly the arm).

When you say anti-skate set to minimum, I assume that is the weight on the bottom of it's shaft?

I haven't touched the arm for a few days but will be taking another look this week.

[Sand Dancin Donkey Walker]

Hi Simon

As for the Bias (anti-skate) for minimum value the weight should be at the bottom of the shaft closest to the main body of the tonearm.
Why not give HiFi Sound a call, they are very helpful bunch of guys

[hifi_dave]

For the lowest setting, the bias weight should be closest to the end with the bend. If you want a greater level of bias, move the weight to the end of the shaft and for very tricky cartridges, you can add a second weight as I have done on occasion with Koetsus.

Alternative weights are available for the main balance weight to cater for lighter or heavier cartridges.

The Notts arms are, in my opinion, amongst the easiest and most positive to set up.

[EJR]

Simon,

I'm considering an Ace Space arm to mount on an AnalogueWorks TT Zero. I emailed Nottingham Analogue about specs and they responded very quickly.

According to NA, the effective length of the Ace Space is 237.5 mm, the overhang is 15mm, the pivot to spindle distance is 222, all measurements approximate.

I hope this helps.

Eddie

[karma67]

what good is approximate?

[EJR]

Just quoting from the PDF Nottingham sent me. They wrote that the measurements were approximate. There is .5mm play in the overhang as the pivot to spindle distance is listed at 222mm, and the effective length (pivot to stylus) is 237.5.

Simon wrote:

"Been messing about all day with this arm and can't seem to get it set right. I've attached my Linn Adikt cart to the headshell and placed it as far forward as it will go. If I then move the arm mount pod on my Ace Spacedeck to make the pivot > Spindle 210mm, I can't then seem to get enough overhang for a Baerwald alignment. I've currently got the pivot > Spindle at around 207mm, which is getting me in the ballpark but I just cannot get the stylus to follow the protractor and be accurate in all spots. It's near but out by a fraction in places. I've had the platter off/on so many times moving the arm pod around."

Simon is using 210mm as the pivot to spindle distance, but two days ago NA told me it was 222.

[Simon_LDT]

Something is not quite right there as there is no way this arm can be set to have a 222mm pivot to spindle distance and then have enough movement in the headshell to make the correct overhang (the arm just seems too short).

[hifi_dave]

Something is not quite right there as there is no way this arm can be set to have a 222mm pivot to spindle distance and then have enough movement in the headshell to make the correct overhang (the arm just seems too short).

I've been setting up various Notts arms for decades now, with all manner of cartridges and never had the slightest trouble..:scratch:

[Simon_LDT]

I've been setting up various Notts arms for decades now, with all manner of cartridges and never had the slightest trouble..:scratch:

Maybe it's my cart (although I assumed it was near ''normal/standard'' size)?

All I know is that I don't think it's possible to mount the 9'' spacearm at 222mm. My old Rega RB300 was mounted at 222mm and I'm sure it's a slightly longer arm than the spacearm.

My cart is as far forward as it will mount in the headshell and to align to the Notts grid the pivot to spindle is 207mm. The pivot to spindle really doesn't matter though as long as the cart aligns to the grid (or protractor arc) as it then sets itself.

I can only assume the Notts 222mm is for the later 10'' arm?

When I read various threads online about the ace spacearm it seems I'm not the only one with this problem. Many others seem to mount at 210mm, but like I said earlier it doesn't matter as long as the cart/stylus traces the arc and/or alignment grid of choice.

[hifi_dave]

Nothing out of the ordinary with an Adikt - isn't it an Audio Technica ?

The way I do it on any Notts turntable, is to loosely fit the cartridge midway along the slots on the headshell. I then place the arm on the protractor and rotate the arm base around until the stylus fits on the spot and the headshell is square to the protractor. Takes all of a couple of minutes to do and then tighten all the bolts.

No drama, no problem.

[EJR]

Hi Simon,

This document:

http://www.edsstuff.org/docs/nottingham/nottingham_manual_faq.pdf

lists, on page 2:

Set up Specs

Distance from Tone arm center to spindle:

Interspace and RB-250 222 mm
Ace Space Arm 210 mm
Anna Arm (10") 222 mm
Anna Arm (12") 294 mm

On page 10:

Pivot to Stylus:

Anna Arm 12” = 294mm (11 37/64 in.)
Anna Arm 10” = 222mm (8 ¼ in.)
Spacearm = 210mm (8 17/64 in.)
Interspace Arm = 210mm (8 17/64 in.)

Very inconsistent and confusing. This contradicts the document which I received from NA and forwarded to you. What length does your tonearm measure?

Eddie

[forsell]

Been messing about all day with this arm and can't seem to get it set right. I've attached my Linn Adikt cart to the headshell and placed it as far forward as it will go. If I then move the arm mount pod on my Ace Spacedeck to make the pivot > Spindle 210mm, I can't then seem to get enough overhang for a Baerwald alignment. I've currently got the pivot > Spindle at around 207mm, which is getting me in the ballpark but I just cannot get the stylus to follow the protractor and be accurate in all spots. It's near but out by a fraction in places. I've had the platter off/on so many times moving the arm pod around.

Any help/tips would be greatly appreciated because I'm going crazy here. :brickwall:

What arc protractors are NA users using for alignment?

No reliable information from you if it a 9 inch or 10 inch Ace Space we talk about hence no one can provide reliable feedback as you can see... 210 mm spindle to arm pivot distance seems to be correct for older 9 inchers (as stored in Vinyl Engine data base) but newer/current production Ace Space are 10 inch & 12 inch with 222 mm spindle to arm pivot distance for the 10 inch version. To make the NA arm story even more confusing: going by data NA provides their 10 inchers can NOT be "true" 10 inch arms, because the spindle to arm pivot distance for true 10 inchers as with my Helius arms is around 236 mm and effective length is 253-255 mm (Orion & Cyalene). 10 inch is exactly 254 mm so Helius are true 10 inchers but NAs 10 inchers are rather true 9,5 inch arms fitting somewhere between 9 inch and true 10 inch arms -the "10 inch" designation being only poor marketing gag, unnecessarily confusing folks out there...

[Simon_LDT]

It's the 9'' I have, so the 210mm seems accurate to me.

BTW, have had my arm set-up for weeks now and very happy with it. I do think though that the NA info out there is pretty poor/basic and in some instances not available. For example, they don't explain at all how the anti-skating works/how to set it. Now that I've lived with it for a while and have had some great help from the folks replying here, it's simple to understand. They are easy tables to set-up in general but it would be nice to have better info out there to help with initial set-up.

[hifi_dave]

If you buy a Notts, then the retailer is obliged to set it up, as I do with every turntable I sell.

For those who by s/hand, look at post 22 for overhang tips.

[forsell]

Nothing out of the ordinary with an Adikt - isn't it an Audio Technica ?



Goldring made to linn's spec.