View Full Version : Speaker cable for recommendations for sceptic
I've been significantly upgrading my system over the past year and have so far avoided upgrading my speaker cable, I've just always been sceptical when it comes to the benefits of expensive cable. I'm running a Rega Brio 2017 with Tannoy Precision 6.1 speakers, using the cheapest possible speaker cable from richer sounds. I've decided it's time to at least give mid priced speaker cable a try. I've been looking at Audioquest slip 14/4 as a possible option, it has the option of being used for biwiring which I wouldn't mind trying. Anyone got any other mid priced cable recommendations? It would be to listen to alot of seventies vinyl acoustic music, also seventies reggae,
walpurgis
12-09-2017, 22:22
Don't confuse good speaker cable with expensive cable Patrick. Decent sounding stuff does not need to cost the earth.
I like Audioquest products, so why not give it a go?
As an alternative, if you can solder and fit your own plugs. You could consider Van Damme Blue Studio 2.5 at £3.20 per meter: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Van-Damme-Blue-Series-Studio-2x-2-5mm-Twin-Axial-Speaker-Cable-1m-Unterminated-/122696440528?hash=item1c91471ad0:g:VJMAAOSwNJ9ZtFN 7 It's an excellent cable.
It is available terminated, but obviously that costs more.
Simon_LDT
13-09-2017, 07:43
Van Damme is all you need, without spending silly money. Try Studio Blue or the Hi-fi LC-OFC stuff.
Thank you, thats very helpful.
I found this worked better than Van Damme with my Tannoys
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Talk-Cable-3-Speaker-Cable-White-Version-Per-Metre-WHAT-HI-FI-5-Stars-/291894176005?hash=item43f63fa905:g:ltgAAOSwzaJX7rw v
Don't confuse good speaker cable with expensive cable Patrick. Decent sounding stuff does not need to cost the earth.
I like Audioquest products, so why not give it a go?
As an alternative, if you can solder and fit your own plugs. You could consider Van Damme Blue Studio 2.5 at £3.20 per meter: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Van-Damme-Blue-Series-Studio-2x-2-5mm-Twin-Axial-Speaker-Cable-1m-Unterminated-/122696440528?hash=item1c91471ad0:g:VJMAAOSwNJ9ZtFN 7 It's an excellent cable.
It is available terminated, but obviously that costs more.
Geoff
How important is it to solder plugs to speaker wire? I tend to simply use screw down plugs to bare wire.
Oxidisation issues? Every six months or so I have a deoxIT session.
walpurgis
13-09-2017, 09:48
Some people swear by a soldered joint. Others don't. I use either depending on what is easiest to fit to the cable type. Can't say I've heard any difference between soldered or screwed on plugs.
I've only had oxidation issues with one speaker cable and that was the old Monster Spiral type. Probably down to the level of impurities in the copper I'd guess. I still have this cable and use it occasionally though. It actually sounds decent.
I am a cable believer but agree with Walpurgis that good cable doesn't have to be expensive cable. Personally I've found simple tinned copper single electrical appliance type wiring to give the most realistic and natural sound in my system. I use this for both speaker cables and interconnects and found it to be genuinely excellent. YMMV.
I found this worked better than Van Damme with my Tannoys
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Talk-Cable-3-Speaker-Cable-White-Version-Per-Metre-WHAT-HI-FI-5-Stars-/291894176005?hash=item43f63fa905:g:ltgAAOSwzaJX7rw v
In what respect did you find it worked better?
Geoff
How important is it to solder plugs to speaker wire? I tend to simply use screw down plugs to bare wire.
Oxidisation issues? Every six months or so I have a deoxIT session.
That's just question I was going to ask, I was thinking of just going for screw down plugs unless it was going to impair the sound.
In what respect did you find it worked better?
Less bright/toppy
No plugs just tinned ends for me dudes. With Fisual S-Flex 'studio grade' speaker cable. Good and cheap, my favourite things.
Although my speakers use those super high fidelity ultra modern Bulgin plugs and sockets!
Less bright/toppy
Cheers, what tannoy speakers are you using out of interest? I read one review that reckoned the Precision 6.1s were lacking in lower mid range and bass, personally I just find them neutral.
Arden MkIIs but had same experience with DC10Ts.
Speaking as an ex-dealer -and it's probably worse now!!!
Dealers make a bloody fortune on speaker cables as it's usually a give-away on a system! If you're happy with this, then fine (and in fact, Naim and Rega cables possibly carry least dealer margin of all retailer bought wires).
I use an electrical installation cable H-07, which is 7 strands at 2.5mm overall cross-section, two conductors per channel. May be not as cheap as the Fisual or Van Damme stranded 2.5mm, but it works well for me. The NVA LS2 uses a very good example of the cable and is neatly terminated with 'Z Plugs' which I like and use myself as long as they're not plugged and unplugged constantly..
One last shot - Linn marketed a very good speaker cable for the Classik one-box system they did. It still lives on
http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/linn-k10-loudspeaker-cable-per-metre?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIj-ncmMKk1gIVB77tCh0oAwnmEAkYBCABEgLZUvD_BwE.
This stuff has been around for decades, is available from several suppliers for not huge money and is a fairly chunky transparent multi-strand figure-8 type with a thick red band down one side. I'm hoping the types available are the same and the typical one of old worked well with anything.
Thanks for that, loads of food for thought. Any evidence that the width of speaker cable enhances the bass?
Arkless Electronics
14-09-2017, 16:16
Steer clear of screw on plugs! Differences as the screw loosens and or the contact area oxidises will completely out weigh the non existent differences between speaker cables.
About 20 years ago when I purchased a 'real' CD player (a Micromega) I asked the dealer to recommend/sell me some reasonable cable which I took (quad qlscf2). Still using them today. Via friends I have tried out various ultra expensive cables, mine beats or matches the ultra expensive cables. So now I don't focus on upgrading my cable.
Steer clear of screw on plugs! Differences as the screw loosens and or the contact area oxidises will completely out weigh the non existent differences between speaker cables.
Oh!
What do you recommend Jez in terms of plugs and solder?
Arkless Electronics
14-09-2017, 16:51
Oh!
What do you recommend Jez in terms of plugs and solder?
Any old plug that's a good tight fit and normal everyday solder. Avoid the lead free stuff as it is really crap. You'll need a reasonably powerful soldering iron. A good 25W one as a minimum will do it.
Any old plug that's a good tight fit and normal everyday solder. Avoid the lead free stuff as it is really crap. You'll need a reasonably powerful soldering iron. A good 25W one as a minimum will do it.
How about just using the bare wire Jez? Are plugs of any benefit apart from convenience?
Arkless Electronics
14-09-2017, 18:39
How about just using the bare wire Jez? Are plugs of any benefit apart from convenience?
If using bare wire then obviously it's important to check from time to time that the binding post is tightly screwed down on the wire. Also best to chop end off and bare a new bit after a year or so due to oxidisation etc. Gold plated plugs into gold plated sockets should deal with oxidisation issues but still good to plug/unplug a few times every now and then to make sure of a good contact. A drop of servisol or similar helps here. A drop of WD40 is an alternative... but I mean a drop!
If using bare wire then obviously it's important to check from time to time that the binding post is tightly screwed down on the wire. Also best to chop end off and bare a new bit after a year or so due to oxidisation etc. Gold plated plugs into gold plated sockets should deal with oxidisation issues but still good to plug/unplug a few times every now and then to make sure of a good contact. A drop of servisol or similar helps here. A drop of WD40 is an alternative... but I mean a drop!
Cheers Jez, your advice is much appriecated, I'm wanting to set something up fairly longterm so I'm thinking along the lines of terminated 2.5mm cable. Was also thinking maybe 6mm if it helps enhance the bass however it's not clear that it actually does.
Arkless Electronics
14-09-2017, 19:03
Cheers Jez, your advice is much appriecated, I'm wanting to set something up fairly longterm so I'm thinking along the lines of terminated 2.5mm cable. Was also thinking maybe 6mm if it helps enhance the bass however it's not clear that it actually does.
Speaker cable just needs to be thick and kept as short as possible. The longer it is the more important it is that it's thick (calm down now:D). Any extra resistance reduces the damping factor of the amp and hence it's ability to "grip the speaker cone". If the cable is rather too long and too thin this will become noticeable as reduced sound quality, including worse bass control. 2.5 will be fine for a few metres but if you are planning on draping it for a distance around skirting boards etc or to other rooms then 6 would be better... but obviously much more awkward to work with or conceal!
Speaker cable just needs to be thick and kept as short as possible. The longer it is the more important it is that it's thick (calm down now:D). Any extra resistance reduces the damping factor of the amp and hence it's ability to "grip the speaker cone". If the cable is rather too long and too thin this will become noticeable as reduced sound quality, including worse bass control. 2.5 will be fine for a few metres but if you are planning on draping it for a distance around skirting boards etc or to other rooms then 6 would be better... but obviously much more awkward to work with or conceal!
That's interesting. Well it needs to be about 5m long so might just go for 6mm after all if you think it has an impact on bass control.
Arkless Electronics
14-09-2017, 19:39
That's interesting. Well it needs to be about 5m long so might just go for 6mm after all if you think it has an impact on bass control.
For 5m the 2.5 would be fine but the 6 won't do any harm.
For 5m the 2.5 would be fine but the 6 won't do any harm.
Indeed one of the cables only needs to be 2m, I don't think 6mm at that length would particularly enhance the bass response and while 6mm wouldn't do any harm my bank account might think otherwise. Thanks again.
Cheers Jez, your advice is much appriecated, I'm wanting to set something up fairly longterm so I'm thinking along the lines of terminated 2.5mm cable. Was also thinking maybe 6mm if it helps enhance the bass however it's not clear that it actually does.
I've found that going thicker can subtly change the balance of the sound in some cases, i.e depends what the rest of the system is and how it interacts, Sometimes it makes no difference. Never heard thicker cable give less bass, though.
I've found that going thicker can subtly change the balance of the sound in some cases, i.e depends what the rest of the system is and how it interacts, Sometimes it makes no difference. Never heard thicker cable give less bass, though.
I've read in more than one place that my speakers, Tannoy precision 6.1, lack a bit in bass so was interested in trying thicker cable to see if it made any difference, that said I'm not keen to spend an extra £40 to find out that it doesn't. What's your own experience?
I've read in more than one place that my speakers, Tannoy precision 6.1, lack a bit in bass so was interested in trying thicker cable to see if it made any difference, that said I'm not keen to spend an extra £40 to find out that it doesn't. What's your own experience?
Just realised you've already stated what your experience is, think I'm just gonna have to take the plunge and find out for myself.
walpurgis
14-09-2017, 22:15
Try the Cable Talk speaker leads I'm offering in Private Exhibitions. They're good. Send 'em back if you don't like them :). Just cover the postage or buy them if they suit.
Try the Cable Talk speaker leads I'm offering in Private Exhibitions. They're good. Send 'em back if you don't like them :). Just cover the postage or buy them if they suit.
They look like great cables for a great price, unfortunately I need one cable that is 5m long. I'm looking regularly at Private Exhibitions to see if anything comes up.
walpurgis
14-09-2017, 22:47
That's funny, this was a 5.0m pair, but I made two 2.5m sets from them. Never mind :).
Just realised you've already stated what your experience is, think I'm just gonna have to take the plunge and find out for myself.
I'm also looking for speaker cable that gives optimal balance in my set up :) Not sure that such a thing even exists and there are quite a lot of different ones to try...
Tannoy claim -3dB at 43Hz for the 6.1 so they are not that bass shy but you can't get a quart out of a pint pot. The best you can do with speaker cable would be to get a bit more mid-bass emphasis but this tends to happen at the expense of the upper mids which can end up with a sound that is bassy but a bit bland. Assuming you don't want or can't have bigger speakers with better bass extension then it is probably better to accept the compromise than chase rainbows. There is always the subwoofer option, although that can get quite spendy for a really good one.
I'm also looking for speaker cable that gives optimal balance in my set up :) Not sure that such a thing even exists and there are quite a lot of different ones to try...
Tannoy claim -3dB at 43Hz for the 6.1 so they are not that bass shy but you can't get a quart out of a pint pot. The best you can do with speaker cable would be to get a bit more mid-bass emphasis but this tends to happen at the expense of the upper mids which can end up with a sound that is bassy but a bit bland. Assuming you don't want or can't have bigger speakers with better bass extension then it is probably better to accept the compromise than chase rainbows. There is always the subwoofer option, although that can get quite spendy for a really good one.
I'm happy enough with the bass response of the 6.1 and the upper mids are very decent, that they were neutral sounding was something that appealed to me. I will go for some 4mm and just see what it does.
I recently went down the playing with SCs route, I had been running QED XT40 as bi-wire, but thought I should revisit SC following some significant kit upgrades.
Luckily I managed to scrounge some loan cables to try out, these included: TCI King Cobra, Chord Odyssey2, & Cable Talk 3, I also picked up cheap from fleabay a 2m length of Atlas Hyper 3.0. The Atlas to me was the best of the bunch, providing a clean, neutral, detailed sound with good frequency extension at both ends of the spectrum, the bass was also full of weight and authority. HOWEVER, I decided to have one more little play with SC, and ordered a 1m pair of 6mm Van Damme Hifi series + matching jumpers (all the above mentioned cables were also used with jumpers).
What a revelation the VD was, straight away it had some serious bass weight, grip and extension that didn't swamp the rest of the frequencies. Mids were crisp and clear as was the treble. After around 15 - 20 hours the cable really settled down, giving up more detail across the board and tightening the bass even further. My system has never sounded better, and I can now hear where all my pennies went.
Whether it's due to system synergy or the fact that it's just damn good SC, I think you owe to yourself to have a listen. It's cheap as chips and punches well above it's price point.
Oh, and don't get hung up on bi-wiring, single cable and matching jumpers work just aswell, at least to my ears.
The Van Damme HiFi is my go-to speaker cable, getting 'linear crystal' copper (LC-OFC) at such a low price is great. I use some with my Exposure IV amp.
My LFD Hybrid Ribbon cable uses PC-OCC multi-strand for the positive, and LC-OFC ribbon for the negative, eye-watering price though.
Photoguy1510
28-09-2017, 06:15
I know its an old thread but its one Iv been playing with. I only got my system 2 weeks ago so everything has been playing away 12h a day to free up the flux capacitor mojo.
When I auditioned the amps and speakers my hears was set on listening to the set in store I wanted to buy so I know exactly what I was forking out for (im 100km from the closest store)
I purchased it in the that way but when I got home things wee not the same the amp sounded like it was getting bogged down and down right under powered the mids were no better than my old warfdale diamond 10.6 on a 16 year old 5.1 onkyo 494.
I was near tears I just spent 2 months to find something that will fit my budget and sound half descent and I have mud did not sound like mud in store so it had to be this run in flux capacitor stuff I heard of on Startrek. a week later things are a bit better but mids are still mud and it got very pitchy (my new word) so I had too look at the only thing that was not a match I went with silver coated cables to get the highs brighter (Rotel & BnW combo is very cozy)
So I wanted to try cheaper cable (those silver things set me back $600) the bi wire setup of 4x12 gauge was way too bright. So off to the electronic store to buy the cheapest 12gauge wire I could find 16m of this set me back $80 and the plugs another 100 but thats the price we pay to try things. Made up my twisted bi wire cables 4m each hooked them to the b channel of the amp and piggy back on the speakers instant switch over on bi wire and later strait with post bindings.
This might be interesting to or plain a bore but a huge change in sound from the cheap home made cable vs the more costly cable with its fancy silver coating and earthed shielding.
First lets give it names HM (home made) and flux for the fancy cable
Build quality goes to the flux as I discovered a wee problem in soldering the cable I had no way to clean up the soldering flux after the fact and I used silver solder for the better connection it draws up into the cable and as we all know flus is acid so long term a problem I will work on a solution. Might add it is 196 strands per cable twisted in 7 pairs.
Results in bi wire: Flux: lacks bass it not that there is no bass its just thin and almost incomplete(even at +10 is is just lacking), mids are worthy of a cry session lacking detail and muddy (speakers not run in but even then it should sound better), and too much top end my ears wanted to bleed after 20 min (why I liked the Rotel B&W combo warm and cozy)
HM: Bass is nice and deep with a lot of soul (I listen to Leonard Cohen a lot) mids a huge improvement but far from perfect top end has come right down (dial in +2 on treble to get it where I want it also helps on the mids)
Strait with briges in place still using both cables effectivly doubles the cable size to 8gauge (if im calculating it correct)
Flux: Bass has big improvment but still needs +5 to match the HM in bridge mode and still not as full then) mids now better then HM with +2 but top end is even worse its a screaching mess and I hate it.
HM: Bass has even more richness (think i might be dreaming) mids are nice enough not to cry highs are about the same as on bi wire (+2 treble sorts it right out and mids clear up as a by product)
for s...ts and giggles I removed the one end of the bi wire setup on each lot of cables back to 12 gauge on strait wire.
Flux: well after a bunch of times going back and forward between bi wire and strait I cannot tell you that there is any majour change bar the top end is not as pitchy still too much but id make 30 min
HM: well surprise surprise bar the highs that are needing a huge boost they sound just as empty as the more expensive stuff.
So i dragged in my old diamonds (bad idea but they are played in) these are very bass happy by nature and they actualy sound darn close to the B&W if you throw in the flux cable but the tweeter "clips" might be the 120W from the rotel is just a bit much for them from memory they are only 100w max rated.
on the HM cable they are just over the top even at -10 Bass setting.
I need to conclude that speaker cable selection is as important as the amp and speaker. Size does matter no matter what you have been told.
With my new gained findings I'm going to get a 16gauge silver coated cable and add it to the bi wire setup and normal(12guage) cable leaving the bass side doubled up and the mid high on the single silver coated cable and test it like that then combine it with my old 12 guage monsters on the the highs and see if I can make a magice moment where I prefer the bypass mode.
the flux will be returned ASAP
ill let you guys in on my findings if anyone is interested plus ill go mechanical joins and heat shrink them to eliminate oxidasion as i dont see it lasting long with the flux still there inside the cable. Might even post a photo of the completed cables I think they look quite handsome.
Rotel 1570 and B&W683 S2 onkyo 7050 cd and Project Carbon TT
So what is the system and did the cable change work?
Photoguy1510
28-09-2017, 08:02
Up there now had to run out for a callout.
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