Is Re-Veneering Speakers Beyond The Keen Amateur?

[Minstrel SE]

Hi

I was thinking that I must do a project to get some more Royd Minstrel cabinets and put a lovely real wood veneer on them. I think the key is spare cabinets to see if it works out before transferring drivers and cross overs

I would also want to do some Conistons (maybe too hard because of the foam lined ports and internal construction) and some Celestions I have. Im sick of black for one reason and I don't buy black speakers now or that fake wood grain look vinyl wrap.

I feel it's a job Im going to bodge at some point because even getting a straight edge with a veneer scraper looks like a practised skill. Of course there are driver cut outs and port holes making the job much harder to finish neatly

Should I get a quote from a cabinet maker? Someone made my dad a lovely unit and Im sure veneering speaker cabinets would be fairly easy for them to do properly. Ive got to think of staining and a decent finish which is a minefield to me

It can't be rocket science but I'm worried about spending on decent veneer and bodging it up as Im a prefectionist with ideas well beyond my station.

It's just something I fancy having done although with a quote it may not be cost effective

Any thoughts please as I mull it over?

Cheers
Martin

[Boyse6748]

Martin,

It's not beyond your experience if you get the correct veneer!!!

In fact, it's pretty easy with a few tools.

See below, a couple of speakers veneered to perfection, me thinks.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170908/12cb21e7dc76e9da3c0fab8c4b190563.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170908/356c7458a0a780dba138b06e5fc6faa3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170908/7344c8ee0729c35be79f9c299131563d.jpg

Any advice, no problems.

Peter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Minstrel SE]

Ah yes thats very nice thanks.

Trouble is Ive been watching the videos and there is a lot to gear up with including the choice of veneers. There is a lot to go wrong and even the proper edge cutting tools add up for a job I wont be doing more than a couple of times.

Its choosing the real oak and waxing it or whatever....it just seems a job for a place geared up with all the stock and equipment. I doubt I would be able to do all of it correctly as I can get so far then bodge it in a crucial stage of finishing

I have just emailed Audinni for a ballpark figure. They look an excellent organisation but I fear I am in Spendor land regarding possible prices.

Its interesting as there are people that will do it. Im just deciding whether it is cost effective.

All the best
Martin

[fatmarley]

A guy I spoke to at a bake-off said he tried to veneer his speakers but made a right mess of it. Obviously, on forums you're only going to hear about the ones who didn't mess it up. If you're not sure, it may be better to get a professional to do it.

I used veneer on my current diy speakers to form a curve but even though I used tons of pva glue on the veneer and mdf, I still had parts that didn't stick properly. I used a damp towel and a hot iron to flatten most of the bumps but had to cut some out and fill. Luckily the veneer was never going to be seen.

[RMutt]

'Obviously, on forums you're only going to hear about the ones who didn't mess it up.'
Not necessarily!

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?34101-Veneering-dear-oh-dear&highlight=veneering

[struth]

veneering curves can be tricky. not tried myself but a guy i used to know, who was a pro used to soften it first the clamp it til dry

[paulf-2007]

I made a right mess of a pair of speakers then made a half decent job on my round turntable plinth. I would say get a professional to do the speakers as they are on view and veneer is not cheap.

[walpurgis]

Never had a problem veneering speakers (or anything else), but I'm a handy sort of guy. I guess it can be messed up if you try hard enough :).

I certainly would not use PVA glue to bond veneer. I always use Thixofix and rub the veneer down using a small softwood block. Some of my speakers are still around with good veneer thirty or more years after I made them. I've made over fifty pairs by the way.

[fatmarley]

'Obviously, on forums you're only going to hear about the ones who didn't mess it up.'
Not necessarily!

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?34101-Veneering-dear-oh-dear&highlight=veneering

You're obviously one of the few honest people out there :)

[fatmarley]

I certainly would not use PVA glue to bond veneer.

It's Youtubes fault, not mine :)

To be fair, I couldn't use contact adhesive because I needed to be able to adjust the veneer to form the curve. After I formed the curve and then filled the inside with fibreglass to strengthen It.

[walpurgis]

To be fair, I couldn't use contact adhesive because I needed to be able to adjust the veneer to form the curve

That's why I use Thixofix. Allow it to just go tacky and lightly apply the veneer. Thixofix retains some 'slippage' to allow a little movement. Once happy with positioning, rub down firmly.

Here's an old shot of small transmission line speakers I built ages ago using Afromosia veneer, which is quite hard and brittle. Note the curved front edges. The veneer was applied using Thixofix.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2hmq4oj.png

[Minstrel SE]

Its just one of those jobs thats asking to go wrong. You all know what I mean. I get good with practice but its not the sort of thing thats cheap enough to start a trial and error learning process.

It would be easier to cover up mistakes by spraying them but thats not the finish Im after. Veneering and finishing is quite a skill so hats off to anyone thats done it well.

I will be staring at bubbles and chips Ive tried to blend in so its best left to someone with the confidence to do it well. Ive a new respect for the factories that nicely veneer a speaker

Im just hoping to find someone that loves helping people so much that they charge next to nothing :D

[The Alchemist]

Hi Martin,

In answer to your question, home veneering is well in the capabilities of an amateur, provided that they use the right type of veneer and the right glue. My hobby is building custom made IPL speakers. This is an example of an oak veneer speaker that I recently made.

http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah213/thealchemist3/DSC_0486_zps8koqmpkp.jpg?t=1504948312

The magnolia grille cloth was not to my taste but the customer was sure that is what he wanted!
If you look at www.alchemyloudspeakers.uk you will find an example of some speakers that were covered in a maple veneer.

As far as choice of veneers is concerned, I always use a paperbacked veneer bought from SL Hardwoods in Croydon. They sell full 8x4 foot sheets so no joining is required. They also sell half sheets for smaller projects and have a very good mail order service. I would never consider iron on veneer. You might like to refer to a thread "IPL speaker build" which was started by "Covenant" in 2015. He had all sorts of probelms with iron on veneer.

For glue, I always use clear Scotchweld 30 which is water based neoprene contact adhesive. I buy it in 1 litre tins from Transair International pilot's shop. The cabinet is roughed up with coarse production paper and likewise the back of the veneer. The glue is applied with a mini roller and allowed to dry (force drying with a hot air gun is permissable!) When the glue is dry it is not at all sticky and can be easily handled (unlike Thixofix). The downside is that when the two surfaces are pressed together there is an instant bond with no room for adjustment! The veneer is rollered down very firmly with a rubber roller no wider that 3 inches.

Most of the excess veneer is removed by placing a long steel rule against the cabinet and runing a Stanley knife or "pizza type" cutter along it. This will leave a mm or so of excess veneer which can be rubbed down by hand, Great care must be taken at this stage not to rub too hard!These days I use a small laminate trimmer with a flush trim cutter which leaves only a minimum of hand rubbing to be done.

In short, home veneering is achievable provided that you use the right materials and have basic "Hands on" skills. When done properly it is very satisfying to make things for yourself. I have a few pictures showing some of the veneering process from my last build. I will be happy to post them if you or anyone else is interested.

Richard.

[p147]

Done a lot of veneering in my time when I was a cabinet maker, the of the most things to have are the tools which consisted of a Stanley knife always with a sharp blade, scraper ( Cut from a saw blade with edges burred) for trimming and a veneer hammer a must.
The glue we used then was scotch glue or a contact glue.

[Minstrel SE]

Thats very interesting Richard and I can get a good few nuggets of information there.

Its just the variables that worry me like how tacky to make the glue and cutting/sanding circular edges of holes where the main driver doesnt cover the edges. I just see a lot of fussy and difficult edge work when Im doing it. Would I want the glue ready to bond instantly as I like a bit of wriggle room with some movement :)

I would love to get practicing. I would love to have a go but the materials are not cheap and I dont have spare cabinets lying around. Im not the apprentice in a factory when they can bung me a few offcuts and tell me to get learning

I know I could do covers of vintage Creek and Cambridge amps but neatly finishing a speaker cabinet is a whole new level.

I know I could do it if I learnt properly and watched someone doing a pair of cabinets. I will see what the quotes are like but feel its just better to let and experienced craftsman do the work.

Best wishes
Martin

[RothwellAudio]

Some people are practical and skillful and are good at making things. If you're one of those you should be able to manage veneering ok.
Some people are cack-handed and can't make anything. I have a couple of mates who I wouldn't trust to make anything - even assemble Ikea's simplest coffee table. If you're like that, you have no chance.
You probably know your capabilities and limitations better than any of us do.

[karma67]

Done a lot of veneering in my time when I was a cabinet maker, the of the most things to have are the tools which consisted of a Stanley knife always with a sharp blade, scraper ( Cut from a saw blade with edges burred) for trimming and a veneer hammer a must.
The glue we used then was scotch glue or a contact glue.

ah hand veneering with scotch,that sorts the men from the boys :)

[Minstrel SE]

Some people are practical and skillful and are good at making things. If you're one of those you should be able to manage veneering ok.
Some people are cack-handed and can't make anything. I have a couple of mates who I wouldn't trust to make anything - even assemble Ikea's simplest coffee table. If you're like that, you have no chance.
You probably know your capabilities and limitations better than any of us do.

Oh yes I have a good idea of what Im all about. Im far from cack handed but I am prone to making rash decisions when Im working in a grey area of my knowledge and experience.

I realise later that if I took a deep breath and let my abilities flow it would have been a proper finish. I can get over fussy and then do too much which takes me backwards.

[Minstrel SE]

Ive had one quote for £235 per unit so "per unit" (plus to and fro shipping costs) over £500.

Im not having a go as thats what it propably takes to have a craftsman look at my cabinets. When you consider the time that has to be spent on them I couldnt expect anybody to be doing it to suit my skinflint mindset.

Now wheres that roller and veneer glue :)

[Covenant]

Here is my thread:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?37569-IPL-speaker-build&highlight=IPL+speaker+build

If there is one piece of advice to distil from my build experience, it is don't try and joint the veneers as they open up. Mine are not perfect but look ok from a distance!

Speakers are great though, no thoughts on changing them.

[Minstrel SE]

Thanks very much.

I will follow threads like yours which are a great source of information.

I can see myself doing this bit by bit. I will source some cabinets to refurbish and Im sure I can veneer them if I take my time. I like to pontificate after every step so If I dont rush ahead of my ability to learn, I can see some nice real oak veneer going on.

I can tool up and get the materials for far less than that quote. I wont buy veneer until Im sure I have all the scrapers, rollers and edge router tools.

Then I will learn how to finish the veneer. Still a bit woried as its all in the final finish. I used to build airfix kits perfectly glued sanded and filled but could be dissatisfied with my final painting. I dont want to be like that with speakers

Best wishes
Martin

[walpurgis]

I can see some nice oak veneer going on.

Best wishes
Martin

Oak is one of the more tricky veneers to work with. It is brittle and prone to warping and splitting. It's not that easy to cut cleanly and the edges can splinter readily too. I'd choose something easier to work with to be honest.

I've used Oak, but I have veneered a lot of cabinets and have a good handle on the procedure.

[Minstrel SE]

Yes I was thinking that. Some of the veneer looks very dry, thick and ready to split. I would almost prefer to do every side with a separate piece but Its all just thoughts at the moment

[The Alchemist]

What did you mean by "I would almost prefer to do every side with a separate piece"?
Did you intend to "wrap" the veneer around the cabinet? If that it what you intend I hope you will trust me when I tell you that it can't be done like that-no matter what veneer you use! All sides must be veneered separately. I like to put the back on first, followed by the two sides then the front.The top is put on last of all.
Hope this helps.

[Minstrel SE]

oh I thought It was wrapped to some degree on as many sides as possible. I thought you made a bend even on the thicker veneers and smoothed it around the corner...then any other sides could be done and blended in. Then again I dont know about the sizes of veneer that are sold or easy to work with.

I will be learning. I suppose the edges are closely cut and then fine sanded with just a few swishes.

I dont know much at the moment but I will learn.

Cheers
Martin

[Qwin]

Check out the YouTube video tutorials.
There are lots of clips covering all the possible ways of doing it, Iron on, PVA, Contact, Hide Glue, its all there in a step by step form.
Much easier to understand the process from a video than a description, make your own mind up, which will suit you and your skill set. :)