CROWN Could the ultimate system (inc. ES 212) be all Crown?

[Neil McCauley]

http://www.hifianswers.com/2017/09/crown-could-the-ultimate-system-inc-es-212-be-all-crown-2/

[DSJR]

Since I'm probably now only one of two posters here to ever hear a version of this system minus tape deck, I'd say *at the time* which for me was 1974, this system took a hell of a lot of beating...

[cjm123]

absolutely right David although IIRC the front end tape machine in our day was a Revox B77 at 15IPS. The one "system" I heard that beat it was seeing Can live at what was Hatfield Polytechnic now the University of Hertfordshire...awesome!!!!:)

[Arkless Electronics]

I've got 2 of those DC300A's... one I know works fine but I've never even looked at the other one since I got it... Bass is state of the art even now. I'd put it against a Krell or whatever any day. Mids, not bad. Top end is where it fails to please... not awful by any means but no better than a budget amp....

I well remember Tannoy using a pair in bridge mode to drive the Westminster Royals in a demo in a large hall at the Harrogate hi fi show...

[montesquieu]

I've always fancied a listen to one of these crowns with the tannoy HPDs. Most solid state I've tried simply doesn't cut it compared to valves with Tannoys I'd love to have that perception properly challenged.

[Arkless Electronics]

I've always fancied a listen to one of these crowns with the tannoy HPDs. Most solid state I've tried simply doesn't cut it compared to valves with Tannoys I'd love to have that perception properly challenged.

Hmm... I would have thought them one of the less suitable SS amps in terms of delicacy etc. The demo I heard was in a large hall (a theatre) and I think they were trying to show off the dynamics and SPL capability of the Royals. They were using The Sheffield Drum Record direct cut! The first 6 or so rows of seats were roped off but my pal and I went straight to the front row anyway... The bloke from Tannoy came over and said "I wouldn't get that close if I were you"... we soon found out why! Luckily it was towards the end of the day so the resulting temporary tinnitus didn't spoil too much of the hi fi show for us:eek:

[Light Dependant Resistor]

The short answer No

[walpurgis]

American amps from that era tend to have a certain 'sound' to them. Crown (Amcron) SAE and BGW for instance. Those I've heard seem to possess a grainyness towards the top. Pre-amps even more than the power amps.

[Arkless Electronics]

American amps from that era tend to have a certain 'sound' to them. Crown (Amcron) SAE and BGW for instance. Those I've heard seem to possess a grainyness towards the top. Pre-amps even more than the power amps.

Yep I'll go with that... they certainly could not be accused of lacking slam and grip though! Would make a great bass amp in a 3 way active speaker I reckon.

In terms of just bass tightness I reckon the DC300A is the best I've ever heard.. pity about the top end...

[DSJR]

I was put off buying a DC300A twenty years ago 'Because it's harsh!' I was told. Like fegg is it - and I hear a mid era sample regularly! I don't like 'solid state' grey sparkle either :lol:

Do PLEASE continue to slag off this series of amps. It means that idiots won't put the used prices up so high :D

[Arkless Electronics]

You lot obviously don't live with these old 'D' series every day and compare them with good contemporary fare. I don't care, I have modern experiences of a good DC300A mk1.5 (just before the mk2 version) and I'm happy with what I hear from it. I go home and put on the D-60's with a smile on my face and then dip into the emotion totally with the NVA's I have here.

I was put off buying a DC300A twenty years ago 'because it's harsh!' Like fegg is it!

Harsh no. Grainy yes.

[DSJR]

The 300A mk1.5 I know well is summed up by it's owner who's well known here, as 'woolly and fat,' and who am I to argue? :lol:

I'll keep it on the bucket list though.

[Barry]

The D-60s are the only Crown/Amcron amp I would consider buying. And I would be interested to hear the IC-150 preamp.

Now their reel-to-reel machines is a different matter! They do look the biz! ;)

[walpurgis]

And I would be interested to hear the IC-150 preamp

Had one for a years as a back-up pre-amp. It wasn't great. Coarse top end.

Second best American pre-amp I've owned was the Rappaport Pre-2. That was extremely good, just pipped by the Forte Model 2.

[DSJR]

Once again, I'm out of step with all you audio enthusiasts. I just want to share this and then I'll shut up and fade into the woodwork again...

Take a source, either with a variable output or play a fixed output source via short leads into a power amp with gain controls - they don't all sound pants! Have a listen and then insert a preamp of your choice into the system, again with short interconnects (so you can't blame them), match volume levels as closely as you can and see if you can hear a difference... Put it this way, in addition to the passive preamps I have here (commercial and home-made), The IC-150's (I was given two) were kept and a much loved Croft and AVI were sold instead.

One last thing when ancient products are discussed and I think this is relevant to us all here - These things are OLD and will need attention at some point. I doubt they were ever meant to last much beyond ten to fifteen years and here I am, blathering on dementedly about FORTY FIVE YEAR OLD amps that are original except for the odd cap change here and there.

If truth to source is the function of a preamp, an IC-150 isn't at all harsh to me. As supplied it's slightly sat-on sonically and measured distortion is only low when the thing is thrashed (all in the manual available online if anyone gives a shit), but these things can be mostly sorted with not too much work (in my case, four 1uF caps and two OPA134's each). The phono stage offers good headroom and adjustable gain. It's not as 'organic' sounding as my NVA Phono 2/PSU which would offer greater dynamic headroom with a top vinyl source, but it's all there and only sounds hashy with a hashy sounding cartridge. Regarding the life-cycle of the product, one of my IC-150's has started with background rustles and quiet pops on the phono stage which I'll have to look at :( The pots are also crap now but there are ways round it, especially with the volume one with 'loudness' tappings.

http://kenrockwell.com/audio/crown/ic-150.htm

Barry, the D-60 remains a goodie of its time if it's not asked to drive 4 ohm average loads, but the D-150A had more headroom. Is the 300A any better than a Quad 606 series amp? Maybe not overall, but I still love it.

I'm sorry everyone. I'm lost in the past and should fade back into it. I still think these old amps were good (I never knew the tape decks but they were always discussed in hushed tones by the staff in the shop back then) and KJ Watford were one of only three UK domestic outlets selling the brand in the mid 70's, the others being REW and a dealer in Sheffield (I apologise for forgetting their name).

[Barry]

I always enjoy reading your musings on, what is now, vintage equipment Dave. You have/had extensive "hands on" experience, which is far more instructive and useful than that of others who may have had only had a short-term (and often poorly arranged) demonstration at a dealer.

I'm sure the op-amp in the IC-150 benefits from an upgrade (provided one can still obtain devices with 8 leadout wires!). And I expect the 'loudness' facility could be bypassed.

[DSJR]

The loudness is always bypassed by the switch, but the tappings are there on the supplied pot (and equivalent tappings on the attenuator KR refers to - and I have ready to go when needed) and it's nice for me to keep the facilities for posterity. By the way, Crown knew the volume pot was pants in terms of channel balance when new and they added extra balancing presets for very low volume settings, one of which I've needed to tweak to keep balance within reason with volume less than half way up (using headphones for example).

You know, when I look at the components used - mostly 10% carbon resistors in these early samples, I'm stunned they work at all as well as I feel they do. Critical components WERE matched and 1% resistors used where necessary and these components were very expensive indeed back in the mid 70's - how spoiled are we today?

It's loudspeakers where I've been pulled up short. When new, some speakers could fizz and spit nastily and examples which come to mind are Mission 752, 753 and original 770, Rogers LS7-T and B&W601 in original form. The latter three I heard at well over ten years old and they were mellow and almost sweet by then (the 770's were 25 years old) and what really pulled me up short were the 752, which suffered boom if too near a wall and fizz if too far away. Thirty years on, the 752 is now a warm toned and perfectly behaved animal and a recent new owner of a used pair couldn't understand what the fegg I was going on about as regards the high frequencies. Maybe it's dried out ferro-fluid, I don't know, but who cares now if they sound fine..