The Grand Wazoo – An Explanation

[The Grand Wazoo]

THE GRAND WAZOO – AN EXPLANATION
Hello to anyone who can be bothered, or is foolish enough to be interested in reading about me!

I’ve been into hifi (i.e. spending money on it) since I was about 16 (Garrard SP25, Sony amp, Wharfedale speakers – don’t ask about model nos. I can’t remember, or be bothered to go up to my daughter’s bedroom to see what the amp was.

I’m a forester by profession, having managed woodland for various characters who could loosely be described as ‘the idle rich’ (Baronets & a couple of Dukes). I’ve also spent a while consulting in the very narrow part of the spectrum where the disciplines of forestry and renewable energy meet.

I use the name The Grand Wazoo rather reluctantly and here’s why.
I have a thing about people using internet forums (‘fora’ I think is probably more correct, but anyway…?) and using assumed names. I think that this can give licence to people to say things that they would not normally feel able to say. This encourages rudeness, crudeness and in the worst cases, probably libel. I do not believe that in a normal situation people should be able to say anything without accountability. However, in the case of this forum, I feel I have to alter my stance somewhat. The reason for this is that I will probably be speaking about highly desirable, valuable and portable possessions, worth, in total, far more than the new value of my family car. I will not do anything to allow the guys with the stripey shirts and the bags marked ‘swag’ to find out where my prized possessions reside. Therefore, I will not, in this case, be using my real name.

The name, by the way, if you don’t recognise it, is not a reference to my status as an egocentric git. Nor does it allude to my rank in some arcane secret society. It is a musical reference – if you value interesting and diverse music, with a very healthy dose of virtuosity, you should find out a little more about the The Grand Wazoo and other work like it!!

Hifi gear currently in use is the following:

Michell Gyrodek (bronze export version – bought new in ~1990 a little while before they really caught on).
Michell QC power supply
Zeta tonearm (one of the first 20 ever made, handbuilt by Phil Gray, the designer – gold coloured arm tube. It was £150 with a free Koetsu Black thrown in from classified ads in 1990 – a frantic drive south from Penrith to Liverpool on the same day as we moved house north to Scotland!!).
Koetsu Black - my 3rd one

Accuphase DP67 CD player

Accuphase T101 tuner

ARC SP8
Bent Audio Mu Step up transformers

Mark Levinson ML9 (100 watts) driving bass - 2nd hand 2005
Mark Levinson ML11 (50 watts) driving mid / treble- 2nd hand 1999

Mirage M3si speakers – (Ebay £280, retail when new - £3700!!)

I also have a big Isol8 mains filter for everything but the power amps, HNE beech & granite racks.

Other bits lying round the house are things like:

Grado SR325 headphones
HNN/RR Headcase headphone amp
Troughline Mk II tuner – still has the brown card tag on it with the factory quality inspector’s signature & date Feb 1963.
Radford STA15 power amp (Rebuilt for me by Len Gregory, the Cartridge Man with Audio Note capacitors etc) – tatty as hell but wonderful!
SD Acoustics OBS speakers – new in 1991 still wonderful!
Tannoy Mercury speakers (the original ones)
Gennexa ProLX5 speakers (with the funny ribbon tweeters)
Mission Cyrus 2 amp
LFD MC1 phono stage
Marantz 1515L receiver hooked up to the computer (Ebay £16)
Sansui 350A receiver – wonderful but needs attention! (Ebay £0.99!!)
Pioneer SX440 receiver (Ebay £0.99 pence with a pair of ratty old speakers thrown in for good measure!!!)

………………….Guess what?…………I’m playing around with receivers at the moment!!
And finally… very understanding wife, who appreciates the benefit of a half decent hifi!

Thanks for reading if you made it this far!!
Cheers

[Filterlab]

Hi and welcome!

Well with that equipment list I'm not surprised you are cagey about releasing personal details - but don't worry, I've already lifted your details from the administration system and sold your them to every known crook in the UK (aka the energy companies).

:)

Nice to have you here, and nice to have someone who's a little interested in AV stuff too, Chris Frost will be pleased.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Sorry to disappoint but...........those are early seventies hifi receivers rather than AV receivers.

Anyway, it's nice to be here.

Incidentally, the quote I used as a signature doesn't necessarily reflect my opinion of classical music. I just happen to think it's a funny quote!

[Alex D]

It was the first Zappa album that I ever heard, which promptly began a long obsession (although quite subdued by now...) with the man and Beefheart! I'm still wondering who those dudes in the back of Calvin's car are... ;)

[The Grand Wazoo]

I'm still wondering who those dudes in the back of Calvin's car are... ;)

For those who may not know what the hell is being discussed here..........
The Grand Wazoo is a Frank Zappa album.
For Calvin (& his next 2 hitchhikers) is one of the tracks.
Calvin Shenkel is the artist who did many of the early Zappa/Mothers of Invention lp sleeves.

"And who are those dudes in the
Back seat of Calvin's car?

Where did they go?
When they got off the car?
Did they go get sandwwich
And eat in the dark?"


Lifted from an interview with Cal Shenkel..................


The True Story of Calvin & His Hitch-hikers by Cal Schenkel

“My 39 Pontiac was in the shop & so I had borrowed a car from Frank. It was this 1959 white Mark VIIII Jaguar that used to belong to Captain Beefheart that Janet was using at the time. When it worked.

I just left Frank's house & I'm stopped at the corner of Mulholland & Laurel Canyon Blvd waiting for a red light to change, when I notice these 2 hitch-hikers, a hippie couple standing there waiting for a ride. The next thing I know they are getting in the back of the car.

I guess they must have thought I offered them a ride (I didn't tell them to come into my car or motion them or anything-- I wasn't even thinking of it), so I ask them where they are going & they didn't say ANYTHING! I drive down Laurel Canyon Blvd past the Log Cabin, past Harry Houdini's, past the country store & into Hollywood. (I'm with Sherri at the time, but I forgot that until she told me a couple of months ago-- & she remembers all this too!) I get to the bottom of the hill, I was going to turn right. I kind of asked them "look I'm turning right, do you want to get out here?" They didn't say anything. They were just blank.

I figured they were on acid or something. I just couldn't communicate with them. I wasn't sure what to do, so I just continued on to my destination. When I get there I said, "OK, this is where I'm going. Good-bye!" They just stayed in the car & didn't get out. So I parked the car, got out & went up to my studio & started to work. I was working on the album cover for Uncle Meat. This is in my studio that was a dentist's office over a hotdog joint on Melrose.

Every once in a while I'd look out of the window to see if they were gone but they were still sitting in the back seat of the car. An hour or two later, I looked out the window & I noticed they were gone. I thought, "finally!" Then shortly afterwards, I saw that they were back! They went to the supermarket for a loaf of bread & lunchmeat & started making sandwiches in the back of the car. They were eating their lunch! Then they left.”

...............Personally, my own favourite is 'Blessed Relief' - the Sal Marquez horn solo is brilliant.

[snapper]

Hi The Grand Wazoo,

Bet yer real name's 'Bobby Brown'.

:lolsign:

[Marco]

Welcome to the forum, TGW :)

Can we call you "Bobby", then?

You seem like an interesting character and I'm sure will become a valued member.

Marco.

P.S Hey Snaps, good job he didn't call himself 'The Grand Zoomer' :lol:

[Alex D]

VEEEEEEERY funny story! It goes to show how weird and wonderful hippiedom could be....:lol:

[The Grand Wazoo]

Hi The Grand Wazoo,

Bet yer real name's 'Bobby Brown'.

:lolsign:

Please, please, please don't call me Bobby Brown!! - anyone who sees the lyrics would hopefully understand why a straight man might be a little miffed at being named after that particular song. I'd explain, but I've read the forum rules.

A little look at http://www.lyricsfreak.com/f/frank+zappa/bobby+brown_20056812.html will make things clear!!

And no, I don't ever smell even a little bit like vaseline!!

[Alex D]

... but gay guys would be pretty offended at the lyrics! Bobby Brown is not the most sympathetic of characters I must say...

[The Grand Wazoo]

... but gay guys would be pretty offended at the lyrics! Bobby Brown is not the most sympathetic of characters I must say...

That's very true. I think I would probably quote Greggary Peccary as my true role model.......or Studebaker Hawk.......

[Alex D]

That's very true. I think I would probably quote Greggary Peccary as my true role model.......or Studebaker Hawk.......

.... I think I'll stick with Willie The Pimp! :smoking:

[Prince of Darkness]

...Or Billy the Mountain!:eyebrows:

[The Grand Wazoo]

...Or Billy the Mountain!:eyebrows:

Well, I did consider that, but I don't see how even me, a forestry professional, can arrange to have a tree called Ethel growing off my shoulder!

[Mike Reed]

Welcome, GRAND (considering I don't have a handle on your name, yet),

Interesting following of yours dealing with trees. We love our local (Norfolk) trees, my lady wiffie and me, but my favourite (at my age) is the LAVA type; never far from one.

Seriously,

I note you've had three Koetsu Blacks. Unbelievable! Why did you not feel inclined to progesss to the Red or Red Sig?

I've very recently bought, used, but within two years old, a Black to replace my Lyra Helikon ; purely as an experiment, because the Lyra is excellent.

I find my Black to be different to the Lyra, and already, after a few weeks, makes me want to head for a Red Sig. to reap the benefits of the Black and the detail/delineation of my Helikon.

I'm using a Naim prefix, which is probably not best suited to the Koetsu.

As you've quite obviously done the rounds over the years, like me, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this. You're not the only person who's had more than one Black, or who wishes to return to it (recent PFM thread).

[Marco]

Mike,

In my experience, the Prefix and the Helikon are matched extremely well, as are all Lyras to the Prefix, particularly with Naim electronics further down the chain. Do you use an Aro? Because LP12/Aro/Helikon/Prefix is the combo to have, if you like what it does. The only other cartridge I'd use with a Prefix is an Akiva (but it's ludicrously overpriced) or an Arkiv, Troika or Karma, as that's what the Prefix was originally designed to be used with.

However, and I hope you don't mind me being frank, the Prefix is seriously outdated now and easily outperformed by a multitude of superb modern phono stages on the market not least, for example, the Whest, which really gels well with Naim systems. Or Naim's new phono stage, the Superline, which I've heard, and is fantastic.

I hope you don't mind me saying that, Mike, but I'm fairly certain the Prefix will not be allowing you to properly hear what the Koetsu is doing, so rather than spending any more money on cartridges, if I were in your position, I'd be looking to upgrade your phono stage :)

Marco.

[Mike Reed]

MARCO,

Thanks for your interesting comments, some of which reflect my own feelings of late.

Yes, the Helikon matches the Prefix very well indeed, as it's not fussy about the 850 ohm ( could be slightly wrong there) loading. The Black, however, should supposedly work better into around 100 ohms.

So I've been thinking about changing my Prefix to a phono stage which has more flexibility rather from the aspect of sound quality, if you see what I mean.

The Naim Superline is the obvious contender, and I note your appraisal. I've barely heard anything about its sonic performance, though Naim rarely bring out something that's not an upgrade.

Marco, my Helikon sounds fantastic on my SME5 plus Orbe. I've had LP12s and Karmas among other things, and have settled with the late John Michell's finest. The Koetsu Black is just a desire to hear my records in a different way, and I like some of what the Black gives me; there's little doubt I shall go to a Red Signature before long, but a new phono stage would need to come first.

Any suggestions apart from the Superline? With impedance/capacitance flexibility?

[Marco]

Remind me of the rest of your system again, Mike.

And would you consider (shock horror) something with glowing bottles inside or are you a diehard 'solid-stater'? :)

Marco.

[Mike Reed]

Marco, I'm not a die-hard anything, as I've been involved in valve amp. discussions on this forum omong others.

PRE 552 into

2 x C/B 135s (which may well be replaced by 300/500/ or w.h.y. in the not too distant future)

PROAC RESPONSE 4s

SOURCES 01, Meridian G08, TV etc plus the Orbe rig.

As you can see, the Superline would be logical, but expensive as it's new (though this is not an ultimate deterrant).

The chap I bought my Black from has a very respectable set-up (Kusma/SME12) with Art Audio amplification (I think) but certainly an Art Audio valved phono stage. Nice though it was, I found the sound from the Black a bit congested. On my rig it's as clear as a bell. That Art Audio stuff is highly rated, so I guess I'd better stay with s/s. Unless it was the valve amplification causing it; who can tell?

There's a wide variety of opinions and tastes in sonic signatures out there. I've only heard one other (non Naim) system within the last ten years, when I bought my G08. That was a top Meridian amp + £2.5X speakers. It just left me flat! As did a similarly specced long demo. at my local dealer. The only thing all these systems had in common was a lack of dedicated mains. However, I shouldn't draw conclusions just yet.

Would be educational for me to have Rob's opinion when he next comes up here

[Marco]

Mike, I thought I'd include this link and a few suggestions. If you're serious about hearing what a Koetsu is really like then you need one of these:

http://www.absolutesounds.com/index.php?page=21&product_id=116&category3=Moving%20coil%20cartridge&category3_id=28&category2=Phono%20cartridges&category2_id=7&category1=Audio&category1_id=1&manufacturer=Koetsu&manufacturer_id=7

Not cheap, by any means, but I was fortunate enough to hear one with the Black Goldline I had (it sounded exquisite) and I was sorely tempted, but then I went off on my D/D exploits with the Technics and on to a different path entirely. However, I am convinced that the best way of hearing a moving coil cartridge is through a purpose-built step-up transformer. I can go into more detail on this if you like. It's how it's done by the 'serious boys' in Japan. I'd spend the money on one of those before buying a Red Signature. Trust me, it would transform your Black and make it sound *NOTHING* like it does just now! The Prefix is hobbling it, big time. You would then have the best 'foundation' in place from which to hear the Red Signature at its absolute best at a later stage when funds permit, or whatever.

All you'd need then is a good MM stage, and for that I would recommend Guy Sergeant's Puresound P10. It's a valve design, but superb.

http://www.puresound.info/id1.html

I think that would be a stunning combination. You would then have a truly world class phono stage! :)

*BUT* with the Koetsu step-up transformer in place, you might even find an MM version Stageline sufficient to provide the necessary RIAA EQ...

Or for a more cost-effective but still good sounding option, you could plug one of these into your 552 and use it with the Koetsu step-up transformer. They are very good:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Audio-Technica-AT-PEQ20-Phono-Equalizer-MM-MC-Cart_W0QQitemZ320248846984QQihZ011QQcategoryZ48648 QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713.m153.l1262

There are plenty of other recommendations I can give if none of those are suitable so just ask!

Marco.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Hi,
I think it's my turn to wade in here. My whole system revolves around the ARC SP8 preamp, as it has done for almost 17 years now. The thing about the SP8 is the phono stage and the way it deals with the midrange.

This compliments the way the Koetsu Black goes about its business so well that you never question the faults - and what system is without faults? (If one existed there would be no discussion on the subject, no hobby, no internet forums (fora?). We would all just buy that system. The point is, that's not the case & it's why hifi is so much fun!!).

I have tried to get more out of the Koetsu in so many ways over the years. I've used the Koetsu/SP8 naked, I used step up transformers, I tried standalone phono stages. For a long time I thought I'd cracked it, and used an LFD MC1 phono stage running into one of the line inputs. This was fantastic. The LFD is some piece of kit & I still own it. One day, though, just for fun, I tried going back to the SP8's phono stage & realised that, actually it punches way, way, way over it's weight and it just has that certain something you can't get any other way. The trouble with that stage is the gain mismatch between the line & phono stages. If you use the SP8 naked, the gain has to be cranked waaaay over close to the end stops. This is fine if you only play vinyl or you have an infallible memory. One day you'll forget, & put a CD on........the speaker drivers will come flying past your ears & go straight through the wall behind you, ending up decorating your neighbours car parked in his drive. No matter what people tell you about Koetsus having enough gain for many 47 k MM stages you need to match the gain!!!

So I decided I was going to find the very best step up transformers possible - for my components. I listened to pretty much everything. EAR The Head, MC3, MC4, all the Audio Notes, the old Audio Innovations ones (which are cheap & have a good reputation), Stephens & Billington, some bizarre home made creations using transformers designed for microphones, the Koestu one. God, the list just goes on and on.

I then stumbled across the Bent Audio Mu's. These were based on the S&B units, but wound with Bent spec wire. They are flexible to the nth degree, but without the use of signal degrading switches. They are built fantastically (as the son of an engineer, this is important to me). Most important of all, the sound is just like nothing. To cap all that, John Chapman of Bent Audio is a true Gent. He was going through some disagreements with S&B just after I placed my order. Here is a measure of the man that John is: despite losing a considerable chunk of his income through a difference of opinion on the marketing methods of what would have been the preamp of the decade, he refuses to say anything against S&B, stating that they did what they thought was the best thing for their business at the time. He won't elaborate publically on that, so nor will I.

John stood by the price we had agreed for my step ups, despite the cost to him for the raw transformers being raised several times by S&B.

Consequently, I own the last pair of S&B based Mu's that John made, & I will treasure them forever. They are a truly fantastic piece of hifi and, at the price, a miracle (bear in mind that the S&B's went from UK to Vancouver, John built the Mu's, tested them and burned them in & sent them back to me in the UK) The price was under £1000 - S&B's "Music First" step up is half as much again & inferior sounding due to the switching etc. John is testing transformers from other suppliers and, I think, is very close to selecting what will be the basis of his new model. Believe me - this is the step up to get.

Back the SP8 - do not underestimate this machine. It is truly a remarkable preamp. I know an SP8 owner who bought an SP11 and sold it within a couple of months because the phono stage on the 8 was better (as I told him it would be). The SP10 is more flexible, but eats vintage NOS valves faster than you can find them. If you have a modern preamp that you really like, and need a world class phono stage, then get yourself a 2nd hand SP8 & run the phono stage through the tape out sockets into a line input. This will cost you maybe £650. Then ask yourself what else you can buy for that sort of money?
Anyway, more later, .........it's a bit late to continue this rant.....

[Mike Reed]

MARCO AND 'LE GRAND',

Many thanks to both of you for your informative and helpful replies. As you've both been there,.....got the tee-shirt', I'm making notes and disseminating the advice and suggestions you've made.

Although, Marco, I'm interested in your 'ultimate' Koetsu combo of mm stage and transformer (and I've sent off for Absolute Sounds' bumpf today), I still feel that the Superline may offer the better (simpler?) path, assuming it is up there with the other suggestions on sonic grounds.

GRAND,

Using a pre. just for its phono stage (and there's an SP8 currently on e-bay, coincidentally) does seem like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, despite its cost viability.

I don't know your other choice(s), but bow to your years of experimentation. Still don't understand why you never aspired to a higher Koetsu, though!

Thanks again, chaps: let me mull it over, as Superline comments/appraisals are beginning to show up as it gets further exposure.

[Marco]

Mike, you really *need* to listen to the Koetsu step-up transformer because it makes all Koetsu cartridges sound simply magical. Use it with a Superline, if you wish, but it will be an expensive combo.

IMO, the Koetsu tranny is a must - whatever MM stage you use it with is up to you, but a Superline on its own, in MC mode, will not be anywhere in the same ball park simply because it will lack the 'magic' of the Koetsu transformer.

Marco.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I would agree wholeheartedly with everything that's been said about transformers, but I do have some caveats about the Koetsu model. My impressions were that it was a very good unit and played to the strengths of the Black very well. But, despite what I said about the SP8 being all about the midrange, the Koetsu transformer did nothing to address the 'tailored' frequency extremes of either the cartridge or the preamp. I listened to it with several different cartridges and many different preamps. In all my experiments and searching there were only two things I heard that added up to something greater than the sum of the parts. They were the LFD phono stages and the Bent Audio Mu step up transformers - I own both.

I would put the Koetsu on a par overall with the EAR MC3 or 4, the old Mitchell-Cotter units or the Quicksilver (though that does really great things in the treble). If you like romance & rich midrange, then the Koetsu would probably strike a pretty good balance with Naim electronics. All of them have compromises and step ups are tricky to audition because hardy anyone stocks more that 1 or 2.

Don't disregard the LFD units - have a word with Howard Popeck, he'll tell you about those.

I'm sorry, I am a little in the dark about the current Naim preamps/phono stages - apart from a longish spell with a CDi which finished about 3 years ago, I am truly the man with no naim (you can tell from the poncho & cigar!).

Of course I aspire to something further up the Koetsu range, but so far the time has never been right to spend that sort of cash on a cartridge. In the meantime, I've invested in a step up that fetches everything possible from the Black and will do absolute justice to a Red Sig. / Urushi or whatever at some time in the future. I've always been happy to play the long game where necessary!

[Marco]

I would agree wholeheartedly with everything that's been said about transformers, but I do have some caveats about the Koetsu model. My impressions were that it was a very good unit and played to the strengths of the Black very well. But, despite what I said about the SP8 being all about the midrange, the Koetsu transformer did nothing to address the 'tailored' frequency extremes of either the cartridge or the preamp.


TGW,

I understand what you mean, but what you should take into consideration is that Mike is using a Naim 552 preamp, which has an 'upfront' and clear sound, as well as being extremely musical, and which will provide a very nice balance with the warmth of the Koetsu cartridge and step-up transformer. I've taken all this into consideration before giving my recommendation to Mike.

What the Koetsu transfromer will also do is provide the exact electrical match for Mike's Black in terms of gain, loading and impedance, which is very important in order for the cartridge to realise its full potential, and it will do so in a much 'quieter' way than with an active MC stage which hasn't been specifically designed for that cartridge. There will be no need to use dip switches, and suchlike, to set these parameters with all their inherent sonic limitations. Basically, the Koetsu step-up transformer and cartridges have been designed together from the ground up and are therefore optimised accordingly.

I think the Koetsu step-up transformer/Stageline or Superline (or whatever MM stage Mike chooses) and his Black cartridge will form a fabulous combination with the 552 and the rest of his system, and make his Orbe sound pretty special :)

Here's a nice link (and description of the Koetsu transformer):

http://pachome2.pacific.net.sg/~angmelvin/Trans1~1.htm

From the site:

"But partner the Koetsu step-up transformer with a Koetsu cartridge and it will excite even the most seasoned Analog-Addict.
The low-noise floor allows the user to clearly discern details far back into the soundstage. It takes the user to a higher level of Discernement."

Oh yes indeedy...

Marco.

[The Grand Wazoo]

If you like romance & rich midrange, then the Koetsu would probably strike a pretty good balance with Naim electronics. All of them have compromises............

........I recognise the potential for a good match with the Naim gear.

I actually don't pretend to know what the answer is here & we can only help Mike narrow things down a little. One thing that you should bear in mind Mike is that long term view I spoke about earlier. Given the price of the Koetsu, I feel it is really something for someone who is pretty much resolved to be owning Koetsu cartridges for an appreciable time. They're pretty tricky things to move on 2nd hand. I don't know, perhaps you're happy with the economics, but I'd want to be sure that I'd be getting some long term use from the Koetsu transformer. This was one of the reasons I looked so closely at the Bent Audio Mu - it's infinitely variable with none of the disadvantages of switching gear. You can play with the loading values by swapping the single loading resistor - while playing a record - which is pretty unique, I think.

The only way is for you to do what I did - hopefully with the advice we & others can give, the search will not be as long (or expensive) as mine was!

[Marco]

Yep, it'll be interesting to see what way Mike goes. I think he's going to be a Koetsu man for the 'long' haul', though, otherwise he wouldn't be talking about getting a Red Signature :)

My view is that purchasing the step-up transformer and using it with his Black is a smarter move long term than at the moment buying a Red Signature, because he'll hear his Black properly, and then later his Red Sig in all its glory, with the step-up transformer bought and in place. After that I'm sure he'll use and enjoy both for many years to come.

Marco.

[Mike Reed]

Your last posting reads like a school report or an epitaph, MARCO. I haven't made up my mind which, yet !

I did like your idea of the Koetsu transformer until the Absolute Sounds brochures and price list arrived this morning. Over 2 1/2 K ! More, even, than the Red Sig ! I've grown up to consider the cart. to be the more expensive, myopic though that may be.

Would I want to change carts. again? Assuming that I accept Koetsu as the way forward (which would seem likely if there's more to come out of the Black, as would seem to be trhe case), probably not. I keep them for five to seven years then have a change, but by that time I'll be the wrong side of seventy and most likely won't want to bugger about. Seems odd sticking a Naim Stageline (which is not terribly well rated, at least in m/c form) onto such an expensive transformer. I have read good things about the Puresound, though.



TGW and MARCO, thank you both for some very expensive suggestions and advice, which I have taken on board. However, I never rush into anything, though some kind of phono stage solution must be in place by the winter.

Actually, there's a Bent Audio MU pair ot transformers, with loading adjustments, for sale on Ebay at the moment for a few hundred pounds. They look suitable but beyond that I've no idea.

Interesting that both of you have slightly different perspectives, yet broadly agree on the substance, so to speak. I have an idea, TGW, that classical may form a sustantial part of your listening. I've tried to keep classical for CD, but I do have a fair amount of vinyl, which sounds nicer through the Koetsu than the Helikon. Mind you, I suffer the same level of noise from my poorer albums. Guess until the K is loaded correctly I won't be able to make a value judgement.

Ta for the words of wisdom; opinions always welcome.

[Marco]

Hi Mike,


Your last posting reads like a school report or an epitaph, MARCO. I haven't made up my mind which, yet !


LOL. Sorry, I didn't intend it to sound like that!


I did like your idea of the Koetsu transformer until the Absolute Sounds brochures and price list arrived this morning. Over 2 1/2 K ! More, even, than the Red Sig ! I've grown up to consider the cart. to be the more expensive, myopic though that may be.


I know exactly what you mean but it's a bit of a tricky balancing act with vinyl, especially when trying to amplify miniscule voltages from low output moving coil cartridges and protect the integrity of the signal in the process!

So there's not much point throwing the majority of your eggs in the one basket, so to speak, on maximising the source signal (i.e. the best cartridge you can afford) only for it to be bastardised further down the chain by a less than ideal phono stage. I know the Koetsu step-up is expensive (the Absolute Sounds mark up sees to that) but I don't think it's outrageous in the context of your already pretty upmarket system. I mean, how much was your 552? ;)

My advice would be not to skimp on the phono stage, just as you didn't on your preamp, if you want to make the most of your Black and perhaps a Red Signature in future and I think the Koetsu step-up transformer is integral in achieving that. The other option, apart from what TGW has suggested, is to go for a Whest PS 30R, which will work very well with your Naim gear, although it won't match with the Koetsu quite so well. Or just buy a Superline and be done with it! It'll be pretty good, as it has variable loading, etc.


Seems odd sticking a Naim Stageline (which is not terribly well rated, at least in m/c form) onto such an expensive transformer. I have read good things about the Puresound, though.


I agree, but I was just trying to keep the costs down a bit! To do it properly you would use my preferred option, the Puresound. I think the Puresound MM valve phono stage and the Koetsu step-up would be a killer combo.

I wish you all the best in your vinyl quest :)

Marco.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Actually, there's a Bent Audio MU pair ot transformers, with loading adjustments, for sale on Ebay at the moment for a few hundred pounds. They look suitable but beyond that I've no idea.

Interesting that both of you have slightly different perspectives, yet broadly agree on the substance, so to speak. I have an idea, TGW, that classical may form a sustantial part of your listening. I've tried to keep classical for CD, but I do have a fair amount of vinyl, which sounds nicer through the Koetsu than the Helikon. Mind you, I suffer the same level of noise from my poorer albums. Guess until the K is loaded correctly I won't be able to make a value judgement.

To learn a bit more about the Mu take a peak at:
http://www.bentaudio.com/index2.html

The pair on Ebay at the moment are 1:10 ratio - 20dB gain, mine are 1:20 - 26dB, perhaps a tad much if anything, but the same as the Koetsu. But they are easily modified for 1:5 or 1:20 as the appropriate taps are already wired but not connected to the outputs and John Chapman will hold your hand through the job I'm sure. It is a 5 second job to change the loading to the same as the Koetsu transformer . I actually tried using the rating as per the Koetsu (adjusted mathematically for my, not quite 47k, SP8) & preferred it without any additional loading. You also have the luxury of being able to use different manufacturers resistors - again a 5 second job.....all this done while playing so you can spot the difference right away.

As I said previously, I think the Koetsu transformer is a little dated. I tried it & many, many others.....I bought the Bent Mu. At an asking price of£350 the set on Ebay are a snip. They will almost certainly be functionally perfect - you can't break them. Those cylinders that the windings are mounted in (swathed internally in Sorbothane) are about 1/2 inch thick aluminium. I know what I'd be doing in your shoes!!

Actually, I have, perhaps only around a hundred classical recordings, but maybe a couple of thousand more in other types of music. I actually like most types of music but have never seemed to get on with opera, choral, C&W and brass. For example, I was at a car boot sale today where I bought the following records:
John Renbourn - self titled (absolutely mint - probably played once)
Earl Hines - Fatha
Hawkwind - Doremi
Neil Young - Harvest (another copy!)
David Bowie - Alladin Sane (another copy!)
Black Sabbath - Master of Reality (another copy!)

Regarding surface noise, I've found my Koetsus have been a little more prone to picking up crud than other cartridges I've owned. Maybe my records were just older & dirtier by the time I got my 1st Koetsu, I don't know! Anyway, it made at the theory that the best record cleaner is the stylus a little redundant, so I bought a Moth RCM & now all my discs are spotless. It was the best upgrade I ever gave my turntable. I have always found surface noise from Koetsus extremely low - even lower after the arrival of the RCM. I'm now pretty fearless when it comes to buying grotty looking 2nd hand vinyl!

[Mike Reed]

TGW,

Many thanks for that info. I did p.m. you when I realised that the transformers may have been what you had suggested, but you've anwered my queries in your posting.

You are obviously more technically advanced than I, and familiar with this approach, as is Marco. I wouldn't know if the gain (1;10) would be enough for the .6mv output of the Black, though you say it is adjustable. How on Earth are these powered? Or are they passive devices?

I'm obviously tempted, not least by the value for money aspect you mention, but then I'd have to source a mm phono stage and get SME to shorten the overlong arm leads that used to pick up RFI when I had on-board phono cards.

I have twice as many non-classical records, and a VPI 16.5, which does a reasonable job, but doesn't repair groove damage!

I've had the Black for just three weeks, and it seems to improve with listening in an analogue way. From Ortophon, Linn, Roksan and 2 Lyra carts. vinyl seemed to be more CD-like, so the Koetsu is a refreshing change which I'm sure will endure.

Marco has suggested the pragmatic solution of a s/s active stage (like the Superline, e.g.), which appeals because (a) it's only one unit with minimal hassle factor, and, (b) I understand that approach.

I really cannot imagine the different sonic rewards of these two approaches. though I suspect the 'purist?' transformer route may have the edge in what Marco feels is my rather revealing system (and I don't think he's far out, to judge by recent visitors' comments).

Shall have to play this one by ear, I think. Can't think there'll be too many of that calibre of transformer coming onto the market, though!.

[BajaGringo]

Welcome Grand Wazoo...

:smoking:

[mcleodsd]

I have enjoyed reading the thread concerning the Koetsu cartridges. I have one but not yet up and running with a phono stage so waiting with baited breath. I have an LFD pre-amp and have a friend building me a very advanced phono stage, my friend being more than a little brilliant in this respect. I am trying to find the series resistance and the inductance of the Red Signature for use in designing the phono stage. Does anyone have any idea what these measures might be? If so, I would really appreciate your help or any tips which might get me closer to an answer.

Thanks Steve

[Filterlab]

Hi Steve and welcome.

I don't have a clue unfortunately, but someone who does will undoubtedly be along in a mo. :)

[Mike Reed]

I believe the resistance of the Red Sig, is the same as for my Black: 100 ohms nominally. (although various reviewers have experimented in the range 25 -150. There is an interesting general review of the range on the net from 10 Audio (Google 'Koetsu Black, Red or whatever).

Inductance? No idea, but I would imagine Absolute Sounds, the importer, would assist. I've found them very helpful with info. Tel. 0208 971 3909 or 3904.

TGW and Marco on this forum are certainly familiar with the Black, at least, and may be able to offer some insight.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I am trying to find the series resistance and the inductance of the Red Signature for use in designing the phono stage. Does anyone have any idea what these measures might be?

Hi
Coil resistance of all the Koetsu types - as far as I am aware is 5 Ohms.
I'll get back to you on the inductance.

I think Mike (above) may be referring to preferred loading, which is different.

Cheers