Audiophile pressings on mid-fi equipment

[magiccarpetride]

My analogue front end is mid-fi (at best). Denon DL-103 mounted on Rega RB300 arm on Systemdek IIX turntable isn't going to turn any heads, that's for sure.

What's my point? I've heard theories that so-called 'audiophile' pressings sound good on mid-fi equipment, but as the audio chain gets better, those same audiophile pressings start sounding crappier and crappier. I haven't had a chance to verify this urban myth with my own ears, so I'm curious to learn if anyone here feels there is some truth to that?

My personal experience is, overall, I tend to enjoy original, or early pressings better than I enjoy audiophile reissues. It's hard to generalize, of course, but I somehow feel that good early pressings seem to contain more musical energy than the newly minted audiophile reissues (I'm talking classic rock/jazz catalog here; but the same logic applies to classical/world music of course). Good old pressings always get my blood pumping, while most of the time their audiophile reissues, while sounding very nice and warm and all that, often fail to get me going emotionally.

And I'm getting that distinction from the mid-fi system. I cannot help but wonder if my impressions would change should I go up the totem pole and upgrade my system to a much pricier high-end hi fi?

[Boyse6748]

A great analogy...it's not always about how much money you pay for high end stuff. Going up the totem pole as you put it, is not the answer.

Maybe one out of ten albums are fab!!! It really don't matter how expensive you kit is .... I have strived for years to get the best vinyl kit, but still disappointed... 2k cartridges/3k arms/ 5k TT's ain't the answer.
It's a matter of what does it for you!!!!

We all have our own perception of what's good, unfortunately the black stuff is not always what it's cracked up to be.

Hang in there!!!!! Some recordings are shockingly good..... others or not. ..

Peter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Simon_LDT]

Not sure what you're getting at here, maybe thinking too much about it...

Far as I am concerned, if it sounds good it's good and will sound good on any system. I've had loads of quality pressings over recent years, it's just that many are not that great, either because of poor sources, bad mastering or bad pressing.

[magiccarpetride]

Not sure what you're getting at here, maybe thinking too much about it...

Far as I am concerned, if it sounds good it's good and will sound good on any system. I've had loads of quality pressings over recent years, it's just that many are not that great, either because of poor sources, bad mastering or bad pressing.

What I'm getting at is whether the urban myth that 'audiophile' pressings are not all that great as the marketing claims do have some merit? If indeed that's the case, then it may save me a lot of money which I could then spend on less expensive old pressings.

[Simon_LDT]

What I'm getting at is whether the urban myth that 'audiophile' pressings are not all that great as the marketing claims do have some merit? If indeed that's the case, then it may save me a lot of money which I could then spend on less expensive old pressings.

In my personal opinion, I would say they are not what they claim to be (most of the time - some are done very well). 180g for a start is a load of bull, 120g or 140g is perfectly fine but the labels/industry tout it like it's gotta be 180g or it's trash. I would advise that you just try to research before purchasing these reissues as it could help save hassle and money buying any that are badly done.

The problem right now with older pressings is that they're commanding premium prices too (especially if in good condition) due to this vinyl 'boom'. It's a minefield out there. It has taken me ages to find all the 80's Iron Maiden original UK pressings in decent condition - and most of those cost me £20-30 a piece. Lots of trashed copies out there and people not grading properly.

[stonehenge]

Some of my thinnest original records give the best aural experience :wheniwasaboy:

[Macca]

Some of my thinnest original records give the best aural experience :wheniwasaboy:

I agree. The thickness of the record has zero connection with the sound quality.

[petrat]

A great analogy...it's not always about how much money you pay for high end stuff. Going up the totem pole as you put it, is not the answer.

Maybe one out of ten albums are fab!!! It really don't matter how expensive you kit is .... I have strived for years to get the best vinyl kit, but still disappointed... 2k cartridges/3k arms/ 5k TT's ain't the answer.
It's a matter of what does it for you!!!!

We all have our own perception of what's good, unfortunately the black stuff is not always what it's cracked up to be.

Hang in there!!!!! Some recordings are shockingly good..... others or not. ..

Peter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quite possibly the wisest post I've read in quite a while, Peter :thumbsup:

We're completely at the mercy of the producer/engineers/technicians in the studio, the mastering facility and the pressing plant ... any one of those guys has an off-day and things go down-hill rapidly. I mean, what are the chances that some vibrations in the air, captured fifty years ago in California, can be accurately reproduced in my living room today? Considering the intervening electronic and mechanical transducers, not to mention the ears and biases of the operators, it's a miracle we ever get anything approaching decent fidelity from vinyl.

I reckon it's pretty much pot-luck whether a recording or pressing gets it spot-on. IME, buying vinyl is basically gambling ... you can slightly improve the odds by diligent research, maybe. Re-issues can be improvements, but probably half of them ain't imo, especially some of the 're-mastered' ones. I suspect that the knowledge needed to produce top-quality vinyl left the industry decades ago, the guys who really knew what they were doing. In my case, I buy re-issues if they are my only viable choice, or if they are 45rpm LPs (which I find really does make a difference). Otherwise, I actually quite enjoy/prefer the 'hunt' for good, used ones.

[struth]

Less likely to warp, and being heavier vibration will be reduced a bit but its no guarantee of better sound; in fact it could be worse if your vta is altered. Mostly tho, its the mastering and cutting that makes the difference.

[Firebottle]

The best vinyl I have purchased recently has been a Direct to Disc recording on the Umbrella label, same as this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UMB-DD6-Mozart-Eine-Kleine-Nachtmusik-Divertimento-Toronto-CO-Boyd-Neel-LP/142457048972?_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%2 6asc%3D20160323102634%26meid%3D9fbdda11ebfc4d15ae6 5780a489c68fe%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26 sd%3D370664050796

£1 at the charity shop, no tape involved in the recording process, the quality of sound is stunning.

[Macca]

I don't see the point of discussing recording quality. I'm not going to listen to music I don't like just because it is well recorded and I'm not going to avoid listening to the music I do like just because it's a dodgy transfer or whatever.

Once you start worrying that the recording/ pressing/whatever quality isn't good enough to do your system justice then that's the end of the line.

The point of this hobby, if it has one, is to worry that your kit is not good enough to do the recording justice. Not the other way around. :D

[JohnMcC]

Just to chuck in a side issue - original pressings cut from master tapes often sound better than audiophile pressings made from digitally remastered versions of the original masters. Some Beatles reissues are a case in point. Whether this is because engineers like to have an unmusical little fiddle while they're remastering . . .

[magiccarpetride]

In my personal opinion, I would say they are not what they claim to be (most of the time - some are done very well). 180g for a start is a load of bull, 120g or 140g is perfectly fine but the labels/industry tout it like it's gotta be 180g or it's trash. I would advise that you just try to research before purchasing these reissues as it could help save hassle and money buying any that are badly done.

The problem right now with older pressings is that they're commanding premium prices too (especially if in good condition) due to this vinyl 'boom'. It's a minefield out there. It has taken me ages to find all the 80's Iron Maiden original UK pressings in decent condition - and most of those cost me £20-30 a piece. Lots of trashed copies out there and people not grading properly.

I am not too hung up on the condition of the old pressings. I find that, nine times out of ten, if the pressing is good, and if I take the time to wash it and vacuum it thoroughly, then the ENERGY that a good pressing releases tends to drown out any surface noises, pops and clicks.

On the other hand, a perfectly silent audiophile pressing that lacks that energy makes for a positively angry listening experience. The whole idea about music is that is is a source of energy, both physical and emotional. An expensive sound reproduction system is worthless if it cannot replicate that energy, even if some finer details might be missing.

[magiccarpetride]

Some of my thinnest original records give the best aural experience :wheniwasaboy:

I was never able to detect any correlation between the sound quality and the thickness of the LP. It tends to be all over the map. Some great sounding records are the flimsiest I've ever held in my hands, and also some great sounding records are super thick and heavy. I don't think there are any rules that apply there.

[magiccarpetride]

Quite possibly the wisest post I've read in quite a while, Peter :thumbsup:

We're completely at the mercy of the producer/engineers/technicians in the studio, the mastering facility and the pressing plant ... any one of those guys has an off-day and things go down-hill rapidly. I mean, what are the chances that some vibrations in the air, captured fifty years ago in California, can be accurately reproduced in my living room today? Considering the intervening electronic and mechanical transducers, not to mention the ears and biases of the operators, it's a miracle we ever get anything approaching decent fidelity from vinyl.

I reckon it's pretty much pot-luck whether a recording or pressing gets it spot-on. IME, buying vinyl is basically gambling ... you can slightly improve the odds by diligent research, maybe. Re-issues can be improvements, but probably half of them ain't imo, especially some of the 're-mastered' ones. I suspect that the knowledge needed to produce top-quality vinyl left the industry decades ago, the guys who really knew what they were doing. In my case, I buy re-issues if they are my only viable choice, or if they are 45rpm LPs (which I find really does make a difference). Otherwise, I actually quite enjoy/prefer the 'hunt' for good, used ones.

Luckily, prices of used LPs are still driven by the estimated condition. Meaning, it is still possible to nail awesome deals for just a couple of bucks. I hope they never switch to pricing used LPs by the actual QUALITY OF THE PRESSING.

For example, my latest stunning purchase is Jim Hall Live 1975, which is one of the absolutely best sounding LPs I've ever heard. I bought it for one dollar (yes, $1.00)! It sounds heavenly.

So why was it priced at $1.00? Because the album cover is in a pretty bad shape and there are some intermittent pops and clicks and some surface noise. But who cares, since the energy that this record emanates is akin to standing next to the nuclear power plant that is in full meltdown!! You barely notice any surface noise and the occasional click or pop -- the music is so mesmerizing (some of the best drums/bass interaction I've heard).

So the point is, there is still a wealth of incredibly high quality used LPs going for peanuts, because all the sales staff care about is the condition of the used LP. Let's hope it stays that way :)

[DSJR]

My analogue front end is mid-fi (at best). Denon DL-103 mounted on Rega RB300 arm on Systemdek IIX turntable isn't going to turn any heads, that's for sure.

And I'm getting that distinction from the mid-fi system. I cannot help but wonder if my impressions would change should I go up the totem pole and upgrade my system to a much pricier high-end hi fi?

Define 'Mid-Fi' please?

Mid price (when new) yes, but the quality of a IIx/RB300 was excellent as I recall and rather above a Planar 3 with same arm! Don't ever judge vinyl playback by the price tag and amount of bling it's fitted with - just makes for a mugs eyeful imo!

The DL103 has a conical tip and it's this that will limit hf clarity and 'brilliance' slightly at end of side I found. After this cartridge, you'd probably not like a 2M Bronze, Goldring 1042 or AT540, which is eighty quid dearer than it's immediate predecessor if I'm not mistaken, but these have better profiled styli and the deck and arm you have can exploit the benefits easily I reckon.

As for audiophool pressings, some were better than commercial alternatives, but not all ime.

[magiccarpetride]

Just to chuck in a side issue - original pressings cut from master tapes often sound better than audiophile pressings made from digitally remastered versions of the original masters. Some Beatles reissues are a case in point. Whether this is because engineers like to have an unmusical little fiddle while they're remastering . . .

I concur. I have all the 2012 stereo Beatles remasters, and every LP pales in comparison to the earlier pressings. For example, my 2012 Abbey Road sounds limp and lifeless compared to my old scratched and beat up Canadian pressing from 1969. You can't even compare the two pressings, the difference is ridiculous.

[magiccarpetride]

Define 'Mid-Fi' please?

Mid price (when new) yes, but the quality of a IIx/RB300 was excellent as I recall and rather above a Planar 3 with same arm! Don't ever judge vinyl playback by the price tag and amount of bling it's fitted with - just makes for a mugs eyeful imo!

The DL103 has a conical tip and it's this that will limit hf clarity and 'brilliance' slightly at end of side I found. After this cartridge, you'd probably not like a 2M Bronze, Goldring 1042 or AT540, which is eighty quid dearer than it's immediate predecessor if I'm not mistaken, but these have better profiled styli and the deck and arm you have can exploit the benefits easily I reckon.

As for audiophool pressings, some were better than commercial alternatives, but not all ime.

When I say 'mid-fi', I'm comparing my front end to my friend's front end which consists of:

VPI Super Scout Master turntable with rim drive, Benz LP S mounted on VPI 10.5 inch uni pivot, into Coincident phono.

I don't think my configuration could come anywhere near to that one, no?

I chose DL-103 not for its detail retrieval, but for its energy. Also, being conical, it appears to be much more forgiving when it comes to used, imperfect LPs. Plus, I don't have to dick around with VTA :)

[magiccarpetride]

I don't see the point of discussing recording quality. I'm not going to listen to music I don't like just because it is well recorded and I'm not going to avoid listening to the music I do like just because it's a dodgy transfer or whatever.

Once you start worrying that the recording/ pressing/whatever quality isn't good enough to do your system justice then that's the end of the line.

The point of this hobby, if it has one, is to worry that your kit is not good enough to do the recording justice. Not the other way around. :D


Poorly mastered/pressed LP will result in poor listening experience. There is no turntable configuration in the world that could ever remedy that fact. That's why we're after good quality pressings, because this hobby is basically all about enjoying music reproduction to the max.

[walpurgis]

I chose DL-103 not for its detail retrieval, but for its energy. Also, being conical, it appears to be much more forgiving when it comes to used, imperfect LPs. Plus, I don't have to dick around with VTA :)

Why not?

Even with a conical diamond, VTA can be critical. Try a conical Decca without checking VTA and see what happens.

[magiccarpetride]

Why not?

Even with a conical diamond, VTA can be critical. Try a conical Decca without checking VTA and see what happens.

Rega RB300 has no capability of VTA adjustment. So long as the cantilever on my DL-103 remains at a 15 degrees angle, I think I'll be good.

[Macca]

I think you are supposed to use shims to adjust VTA with Rega arms.

Someone who knows what they are talking about might help more here.

[walpurgis]

VTA adjusting rings and adaptors are available for that arm.

[magiccarpetride]

VTA adjusting rings and adaptors are available for that arm.

Sounds like too much hassle.

[Jazid]

Alex
You seem to know what you like and are after in music, have chosen your kit wisely and well (IMHO), and enjoy music through it.

You also know the answer to your original question, at least for yourself, so this thread is in the spirit of a minor wind up I assume?

My tuppence worth is that modern issues of modern recordings can stand a good chance of competing on a level field with original pressings of a previous era, but audiophile reissues are hobbled by age and condition of source material and pressing machinery, likely market size, and the emotional baggage which the engineers cannot avoid. For example their own experiences and expectations for the reissued sound, the decades of cultural analysis (this guitar too quiet on American pressing x, too much reverb on German issue y, the problems of improving on what is commonly perceived as 'perfection' by the likely purchasers, &c). Original issue engineers are free of this, they must concentrate on producing a master that will be popular with their target audience.

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

[Jac Hawk]

Sounds like too much hassle.

Stick with digital then, TT's need to be set up just right to get the best out of each component, even the very best TT will sound like a bag of hammers if it's not set up correctly.
setting the VTA with shims is quite simple, you can get them online quite easily and they usually come in packs with a few different thicknesses, I bought a pack and over the course of an afternoon set my cart alignment and VTA. I set the VTA by ear, adding shims then sticking a record on and seeing if I could hear any sonic improvements, I ended up with a 3mm shim on my deck.

[magiccarpetride]

Stick with digital then, TT's need to be set up just right to get the best out of each component, even the very best TT will sound like a bag of hammers if it's not set up correctly.
setting the VTA with shims is quite simple, you can get them online quite easily and they usually come in packs with a few different thicknesses, I bought a pack and over the course of an afternoon set my cart alignment and VTA. I set the VTA by ear, adding shims then sticking a record on and seeing if I could hear any sonic improvements, I ended up with a 3mm shim on my deck.

Awesome, thanks for the pointers :)

Since I'm a vinyl newbie, I really don't have much experience in those matters. Some people told me that since I'm a big fan of Denon DL-103 cartridge (conical stylus), messing with VTA ain't going to buy me a lot of perceivable difference in sonics. It is only once one goes with elliptical/Shibata that VTA makes a noticeable difference. Would you agree with that?

[walpurgis]

It is only once one goes with elliptical/Shibata that VTA makes a noticeable difference. Would you agree with that?

No.

The audible effects of innacurate VTA may be less extreme with a conical tip than they are with advanced profiles, but they still exist.

I don't understand the apparent resistance to experimenting with VTA, or at least establishing that it is correct. It's not a hard job with a Rega arm.

[magiccarpetride]

Alex
You seem to know what you like and are after in music, have chosen your kit wisely and well (IMHO), and enjoy music through it.

You also know the answer to your original question, at least for yourself, so this thread is in the spirit of a minor wind up I assume?

My tuppence worth is that modern issues of modern recordings can stand a good chance of competing on a level field with original pressings of a previous era, but audiophile reissues are hobbled by age and condition of source material and pressing machinery, likely market size, and the emotional baggage which the engineers cannot avoid. For example their own experiences and expectations for the reissued sound, the decades of cultural analysis (this guitar too quiet on American pressing x, too much reverb on German issue y, the problems of improving on what is commonly perceived as 'perfection' by the likely purchasers, &c). Original issue engineers are free of this, they must concentrate on producing a master that will be popular with their target audience.

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Great points, James. I was originally referring to the audiophile reissues of older pressings (as in the '50s, '60s, '70s records). Some claim that the remastered reissues cannot match a good original pressing. My limited experiences with so-called 'audiophile' reissues tend to agree; however, I must admit that I haven't had a chance to do any significant comparisons, so in my case it's all anecdotal.

My go-to example in these matters is the Beatles "Abbey Road". I have the 2012 180 gram remastered LP (made in Germany), which indeed sounds a bit dull and lifeless compared to my original 1969 Canadian pressing of "Abbey Road". Similar impressions when I compare the 2012 reissue of the White Album with several old pressings I happen to own. Old pressings seem to have more energy, more oomph, they deliver more music.

[magiccarpetride]

No.

The audible effects of innacurate VTA may be less extreme with a conical tip than they are with advanced profiles, but they still exist.

I don't understand the apparent resistance to experimenting with VTA, or at least establishing that it is correct. It's not a hard job with a Rega arm.

OK, I guess it's time I start spending my time with VTA.

[walpurgis]

OK, I guess it's time I start spending my time with VTA.

Check the VTA before trying spacers. It may already be OK. If you do need adjustment, take the cartridge off the arm first. Refitting it to check VTA angle after spacers are installed or removed.

Take great care. I've been known to stuff a DL-103 myself.

[magiccarpetride]

Check the VTA before trying spacers. It may already be OK. If you do need adjustment, take the cartridge off the arm first. Refitting it to check VTA angle after spacers are installed or removed.

Take great care. I've been known to stuff a DL-103 myself.

How do I check the VTA unless I can modify it and then listen for any improvements/degradations?

Taking the cartridge off and then refitting it for each VTA mod seems to me like a lot of hard, error-prone work. Maybe I should consider upgrading my Rega RB300 to a more versatile tonearm?

[walpurgis]

First check that the flat, top of the cartridge where it fits against the 'headshell' is parallel to the record once the stylus is lowered. That should be done at the recommended downforce for the cartridge. If you have the data, check the VTA settings for the Denon. That should be available online.

I suspect that you may see that the arm is risng slightly from the pillar to the headshell, as I believe the Denon cartridge is slightly deeper in build compared to the Rega cartridges that the arm/turntable combination are designed for. If that is the case the arm needs raising. Or of course you could use a Rega cartridge, but that could (but not necessarily) be a backwards step.

It may seem a complex lot of faffing about, but we all start somewhere and I for instance, did not learn how to set up decks without having a bash.

[magiccarpetride]

First check that the flat, top of the cartridge where it fits against the 'headshell' is parallel to the record once the stylus is lowered. That should be done at the recommended downforce for the cartridge. If you have the data, check the VTA settings for the Denon. That should be available online.

I suspect that you may see that the arm is risng slightly from the pillar to the headshell, as I believe the Denon cartridge is slightly deeper in build compared to the Rega cartridges that the arm/turntable combination are designed for. If that is the case the arm needs raising. Or of course you could use a Rega cartridge, but that could (but not necessarily) be a backwards step.

It may seem a complex lot of faffing about, but we all start somewhere and I for instance, did not learn how to set up decks without having a bash.

I've recently attended a turntable setup seminar where the presenter claimed that the goal is to have the cartridge cantilever at 15 degrees angle. According to him (if I understood everything), VTA adjustments are being made in order to maintain this ideal 15 degrees angle, which will get affected depending on the thickness of the vinyl.

Any truth to that?

[walpurgis]

I've recently attended a turntable setup seminar where the presenter claimed that the goal is to have the cartridge cantilever at 15 degrees angle. According to him (if I understood everything), VTA adjustments are being made in order to maintain this ideal 15 degrees angle, which will get affected depending on the thickness of the vinyl.

Any truth to that?

Not really. It's an oversimplified generalisation.

Look at a Decca cartridge for instance. Where would you find a 15 degree cantilever angle there?

https://s26.postimg.org/n73j2nxih/mxcpdeccadraw.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://s26.postimg.org/b6i31xq3t/mxcp1215listen.cart.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[walpurgis]

With most cartridges VTA is described something like this.

https://s26.postimg.org/pqz5wrl2h/Screen_Shot_08-28-17_at_11.45_PM.png (https://postimages.org/)

Note, the stylus contact area in the record groove is shown in solid black. It is not at the stylus tip.

[magiccarpetride]

Not really. It's an oversimplified generalisation.

Look at a Decca cartridge for instance. Where would you find a 15 degree cantilever angle there?

https://s26.postimg.org/n73j2nxih/mxcpdeccadraw.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://s26.postimg.org/b6i31xq3t/mxcp1215listen.cart.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Haha, great myth busting right there :)

[dave2010]

I recall that VTA was an interesting topic over 40 years ago. Ben Bauer of CBS did a fairly extensive investigation and discovered that it wasn't just a matter of cutter or replay geometry. The elasticity and plasticity of the materials played a part and it appears that the VTA was often smaller than the geometry would suggest. However that knowledge may have changed the way LPs were cut after that, so what the optimum for newer LPs is I don't know. Used to be thought to be 15 degrees (real?) as optimum.

[Clive197]

Enjoy what you've got. I have a great many albums that I bought in the sixties and seventies which to me sound great and are not inferior to my newer and so called audiophile pressings. My only advice is to buy yourself a good record washer like the Pro-Ject or similar. Keeping vinyl clean is essential.
Don't get too bogged down with set-up as it is very easy to lose the will to live. ALL set-ups are a series of compromises, you never can or will get it right for all albums, find the one that generally works for you, then go enjoy.

[magiccarpetride]

Enjoy what you've got. I have a great many albums that I bought in the sixties and seventies which to me sound great and are not inferior to my newer and so called audiophile pressings. My only advice is to buy yourself a good record washer like the Pro-Ject or similar. Keeping vinyl clean is essential.
Don't get too bogged down with set-up as it is very easy to lose the will to live. ALL set-ups are a series of compromises, you never can or will get it right for all albums, find the one that generally works for you, then go enjoy.

I agree. One of the biggest upgrades to my system was getting the vacuum RCA. The before-and-after difference is staggering, to say the least.

One of the reasons I didn't get into VTA adjustments is due to the observation that some of my thinnest and flimsiest LPs sound marvellous, and also some of my heaviest and thickest LPs also sound marvellous. That, to me, means that my DL-103 is happily tracking LPs of various thickness, which is telling me that VTA is not necessarily the bottleneck in my system.

Now, that's not to say that there is no room for improvement (there always is), but at what cost? To have to dismount my cartridge, readjust the VTA, and then mount the cartridge and adjust all the parameters again each time I want to listen to a different LP seems like a gargantuan effort to me. Maybe it's worth the trouble, but is it also worth the risk of wrecking the cart?

[Jazid]

I would have thought you could adjust the VTA without fiddling with the cartridge? FWIW my own limited experience of this is from my Io2 in an Audio Note arm, complex geometry tip and a slightly awkward VTA adjustment. I suggest if you can be bothered to follow through that you move in sizeable increments first. If no difference then ignore. If it makes a difference tweak to perfection. Don't get hung up on 0.25mm here and there though, that way lies madness...

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[magiccarpetride]

I would have thought you could adjust the VTA without fiddling with the cartridge? FWIW my own limited experience of this is from my Io2 in an Audio Note arm, complex geometry tip and a slightly awkward VTA adjustment. I suggest if you can be bothered to follow through that you move in sizeable increments first. If no difference then ignore. If it makes a difference tweak to perfection. Don't get hung up on 0.25mm here and there though, that way lies madness...

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

Is it really the case that people fiddle with VTA for EACH record they intend to play?

[struth]

some do, although they would likely be able to dial it in. its maybe a bit anal but if thats what rocks their boats..

[magiccarpetride]

some do, although they would likely be able to dial it in. its maybe a bit anal but if thats what rocks their boats..

Amazing. I doubt my system has sufficient resolution to let me hear the differences in various VTAs.

[magiccarpetride]

I would have thought you could adjust the VTA without fiddling with the cartridge?

I was advised to make sure I remove the cartridge each time I have to modify VTA on my tonearm.

[Jazid]

I was advised to make sure I remove the cartridge each time I have to modify VTA on my tonearm.Not usually necessary if the arm has a secure rest. I have never removed the cart, nor would I, too much trouble. My Io2 is dialled in and the VTA amounts to an arm positioned slightly below horizontal. I have not found a 'magic point' for it. My SPU is set up with the arm level and without further effort it sounds fab. Not sure I can be bothered to experiment there... Like I say, big changes then recursively smaller until too bored to care.
Good luck with the process!

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[karma67]

I was advised to make sure I remove the cartridge each time I have to modify VTA on my tonearm.

why?? no wonder your not keen to experiment with vta if some loons told you that.

[magiccarpetride]

why?? no wonder your not keen to experiment with vta if some loons told you that.

I guess the reason is that I'm using Rega RB300 tonearm, which does not come with any VTA adjustment mechanism, only shims that must be purchased separately. So if I am to completely remove the arm in order to install the shims, my Denon DL-103 cartridge could get borked in the process, so it's better to be on the safe side and remove it altogether. At least this is my reading.

[Stratmangler]

I guess the reason is that I'm using Rega RB300 tonearm, which does not come with any VTA adjustment mechanism, only shims that must be purchased separately. So if I am to completely remove the arm in order to install the shims, my Denon DL-103 cartridge could get borked in the process, so it's better to be on the safe side and remove it altogether. At least this is my reading.

Pete Riggle http://www.vtaf.com/vtafdescription.html
You can lead a horse to water ....

[Natara]

I have found that 'Audiophile' pressings by companies like Analogue Productions and Mobile Fidelity and I have a few are a great alternative to ridiculously priced original pressings but if you can get an original 1st press cheaper than one of these 'AUDIOPHILE' pressings then I would go for that. Of course there are exceptions the MUSIC MATTERS Blue Note reissues (the cheaper single 33rpm ones) are exceptional.
Bog standard 180 gram so called audiophile pressings are not what they claim infact some are terrible.

[magiccarpetride]

I have found that 'Audiophile' pressings by companies like Analogue Productions and Mobile Fidelity and I have a few are a great alternative to ridiculously priced original pressings but if you can get an original 1st press cheaper than one of these 'AUDIOPHILE' pressings then I would go for that. Of course there are exceptions the MUSIC MATTERS Blue Note reissues (the cheaper single 33rpm ones) are exceptional.
Bog standard 180 gram so called audiophile pressings are not what they claim infact some are terrible.

In my experience, even second/third etc. gen pressings tend to beat many reissues. It's the 'old school' vintage approach to mass producing records vs. the 'new school' approach. I compare it to making bread by hand vs. making bread using software controlled robotics. Yes, the software controlled robotics will give you more perfect, more consistent results, but something is missing from that cold mechanical assembly line. I call that something 'soul'.